Professor Kevin Anderson -
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- In this climategenn episode recorded from COp28 in Dubai at the midway point between the 2 weeks, I speak with Professor Kevin Anderson about how the COP has failed humanity but actually is succeeding very well for the people running this colossal festival of carbon in the desert.
Link to Order my book COPOUT - How governments have failed the people on climate: amzn.to/487PMnI
We discuss unexpected voices arising here at COP28, from both the Global south and the Arctic Circle, calling for urgent research into geoengineering. They claim the negotiations to eliminate carbon pollution has failed and it is their human right to have all options available to them.
We also discuss how the IPCC has aligned itself with the heads of COP, which is essentially aligning itself with prolonged fossil fuel use way beyond the boundaries of safe climate.
This is a very desperate time when even the urgency required to tackle the root cause is being ignored in favour of prolonging the fossil age.
More interviews from COP28 will be published in the next week in full and made public. All of this is causing a rewrite of the final chapter of COPOUT which will drive my publisher at Ad Lib Books crazy. A big thanks to them for their patience. You can preorder COPOUT globally from the link in the notes below.
Thank you for listening.
Don't worry about being upbeat, Kevin! Just keep on telling the truth until one day it'll spill over to the mainstream where pearls will be clutched... Thank you, gentlemen. Really, thank you.
Once the 'pitchforks come out' I always thought it would be the oil corporations who'd be first on the chopping-block, but more recently I've begun to suspect that it will be the scientists...
Thanks again Kevin, great interview! These COPs are such a useless event show... I'd prefer if the parties were honest enough to admit that they don't intend to phase out of fossils or that the 1.5° goal is stone dead. But surely they'll again put together a high polished declaration of warm words to continue fooling the masses, then fly home and go on as usual. And you're quite right with your remark about research.. I've been a renewable energy system researcher for 15+ years, and today feel that it's all going down the wrong path. Research is just supporting the government's magic technofix thinking which is more than likely to fail, but criticism is kept behind closed doors because everybody wants to secure their jobs and funding. It feels more and more wrong to be part of that. I know I should give up the job. If only I knew what else to do.
Right, in a nutshell. It is sad, pathetic even, but given the amount of money involved, and the potential lost short term profits, no real surprises.
My thoughts as well.
That’s really quite a sad situation and depressing to hear it. The only thing to advise is that you should stay in it and try to change attitudes from within.
Everyone should be listening to Kevin Anderson.
'Mick I agree. But listening alone changes nothing. It's the doing that enables change to occur. We can all listen to endless talks and interviews, and it's good to improve our knowledge. However as Kevin said in his own words in a talk he was giving to Just Stop Oil a year ago or so, 'I applaud what you're doing, I wish I had the strength (guts) to do the same'. Many of us are like that. I applaud Kevin because he uses his platform to speak out about the climate, ennvironment and the lack of social justice. Not many with similar platforms are willing to do the same.
I wrote a French article after cop 23 «De l'inutilité des COP»
Of the uselessness of COPs. Because
“Our politicians are interchangeable figureheads on the pirate ships of the Corporatocracy Empire”
Go back in time, find and watch Severn Suzuki at Rio in 1992.
I was there in '92. Hope and time were still somewhat more on our side.
Could leave out the _somewhat_ Imagine it was a Rep Prez (Bush senior) who had agreed to do something, only to come back on his words after insisting fossil producers urged him. Nothing new there. Have forgotten why Clinton dint do a thing while he was at it, and Gore being VP. Had Gore known what Trump would do, he'd never agreed to let go that Florida recount.
Hell, he could still run. Watch him go bloodhound at fossil lobby in his Ted Talk !
@@leonstenutz6003 On a personal level, I never believe in hope. I do trust courage however.
To give the impression of openness. To appeal to our sense of listening to the underdog. All the while maintaining the status quo. Totally on point gentlemen.. Thank you for staying sane and maintaining your integrity in the midst of complete insanity
What you, me and our neighbours doing about it? No point in complaining, the hyper rich don't care. Maybe organise with others and join up to something non-violent. Put aside minor manipulated differences?
One of my favorite climate scientists... I am an environmental scientist and I fully relate to the cry of despair...
We're heading rapidly towards a PETM like existence. Human civilisation cannot live in a PETM climate. We won't be turning this around. Live with kindness and respect.
Thanks Nick. Kevin laid the bottom line truth in an artful manner. He is aware enough to describe revolution in place of calling for it. lol
There you go John stating the "bleedin obvious". Of course you're right!
😢Listening to this made me recall a conversation I had with a friend in 2021 about climate change, which drifted onto government procrastination and what delaying tactics they may employ n ten years time.
He said he didn't think it outside the realms of possibility some governments in the global north may deploy their accountants to alter the benchmarks to try and "reset the climate clock" as it were, on paper at least. When I asked him to elaborate he said he believed the most likely scenario would be them bringing out some academics (the kinds whose honours and notoriety rest on achievements long in the past) to argue we've been wrong along to measure emissions from 1850, and what really constitutes the pre-industrial age is anything pre-1900. With this argument they'll then argue emissions aren't in fact 1.5/1.6° above 'pre-industrial' levels (by 2030 that is) but only 0.8/0.9° or some such, and then they'll announce: "Hey, guess what everyone. We've actually got another 50 years to sort climate change out before it gets to really dangerous levels."
At the time I thought these was just cynical, bitter remarks from a tired environmentalist. Nowadays I can increasingly believe some Western governments might just try and play this trick on us, six or seven years from now.
Except James that it will be so chaotically hot with all that accompanies that state, people will be queing for bread at the supermarchés in France, Italia, Espana and it will be beyond obvious. Not all of us will die on our knees methinks. If you want to experience that state, check out Syria, Sudan, Iraq, and the Sub-Sahara. Madagascar comes to mind, as do parts of South America, and many places in Asia. Booking-keeping can't paper over that level of Imperial pain
For COP28, it’s (e)mission impossible!
Thanks Nick and Kevin as always for this interview-discussion. I agree with everything Kevin says, but I would like to point out the following: Everything is connected, and Kevin is right to point out the scientific disciplines operate in siloes. The following is what I wish to say with particular reference to wars, invasions, covert operations and all that is closely connected to the Climate, Environmental, and Social Justice travesties occurring around the globe. With regard to the recent UN vote on the genocide occurring in Gaza. The US Adminstration, Congress and Senate together reaffirm they constitute a rogue terrorist state and the greatest threat to life on the earth there has ever existed in the history of human civilisation. This holds true for the war in Ukraine; it is absolutely no different except that Russia can fight back. Wouldn't you invade, via special military operation, if the world's hegemon set it sights on your own country via a proxy on your land border? Read your history, this isn't speculation or Putin speak. Re COP it's no different to the former. The people of the earth are facing a group of the hyper rich who live in "Richiestan". These people recognise no boundary and together are committing the greatest crime against life on the planet since the dawn of human history. Note Well: I am not a Putin supporter, nor PRC supporter and I do not support dictators of any hue or colour whether Left, Right or flavour. Neither am I naive. What we face as a civilisation is not a climate-environment crisis, it's a crisis of ourselves of our humanity and purpose in life at the deepest level. It is personal, societal, and spiritual (not religious-spiritual) This is humanities challenge across the globe. Thanks as always. Brian. I want to acknowledge I have strong connections with A22 and Extinction Rebellion.
Thank you for saying what needs to be said. I hope those young people do bust the doors down and take whatever steps they feel are necessary for their futures.
Looking at a very hopeless, sedated youth, I fear that will not happen.
Once the revolution starts Jonquil, the powers that be will say 'where did that come from'. It's coming, like ice is melting at both poles.
And I had a white roof cladding on my house in a suburb with mostly dark red or black roof tiles. Insane, yet the fashion is for black roofs even in the heat of summer In Australia,!
It is madness isn't it? ( I am in Melbourne region).
We have the shaved down short grass lawns and acreages too, still trying to emulate old English posh society, but just causing infertility and dehydration.
Excellent! Anderson is a breath of fresh air!
The really shocking thing is that Prof Anderson was still downplaying the severity and speed of the accelerating cataclysm. Those 'carbon budgets' are absolute nonsense for instance, and +1.5C is *catastrophic* (yes even in richest countries!).
I don't agree with him that we can't have another COP like this though. I reckon they can keep it up for at least another 5 years and maybe 10 (but definitely not 20). The cost of each year is huge and will grow every time but they can still do it and I think they will.
Maybe our focus is wrong... we keep trying to get our governments and the people benefiting most from the status quo to change. Maybe we need to recognize that this will never happen. Our economic system has corrupted our political system, and there is little chance of reaching our goal in this scenario. Perhaps what we need to do is to change our focus to peacefully making the necessary changes to both economy and government until those benefiting from the status quo are removed from influence and we can transition to a sustainable economy that works for the many, not the few and can be used as a tool to tackle the issues of the day, not continue to benefit those who already have the most at everyone else's expense.
Thanks Nick, I can see Kevin joining Roger Hallam. They talk the same talk. Both Kevin and Roger talk the same social science
What should we do? Revolution!
A new Saudi glass house city in the desert 140 km long by 1500 ft high x650 feet wide . Nous Somme’s stuffed
The Princes play with our future.
All systems fail but how do we move past the monetary system, I think we should get a kg of carbon allowance instead of cash that doesn't allow for the how many kg's we emit.
How many of us really cut overall consumption 50% over the last 30 years. We are all products of our environment, how do we change our environment to one of belief that everything can still be ok, if we change from a system of debt that requires energy use to continue. A litre of diesel holds 10.6kw of energy, have a look how many kwh you use per day, me I use 9kwh and then consider how many day's worth of energy is released to go for a Sunday drive.
Antony, the monetary system? Non-Violent-Revolution is how we move beyond this system It's a complete human fabrication based on nothing. We create our own local systems and integrate for larger systems. We're only limited by ourselves, by our imaginations. Read Varoufakis, Wolff and so on. There's so much we restrict ourselves with, self policing our own doom. What are we? What's our purpose? Do what you know to be right and organise with others, or you and we all will die on our knees (as the saying goes)
We haven't failed at cutting emissions because we haven't really tried yet.
When 1/2 the population (4 billion people of all walks of life, including some of the 1%) do something, anything, we will have really begun to fight.
Another brutally honest, fantastic comment from Kevin. #KeepItInTheGround
Next year will be worse
Professor Anderson knows this
Same. Agreed.
Agree. How many 'next year's' will there be? 10, 15, 25? This is the decade of increasingly severe consequences becoming evident in the global north. The global south has experienced these for decades.
I looked forward to watching this video. I turned it off after 6mins when Kevin Anderson said, " this is not Russia's war, this is Putin's war". I could not take anything he said seriously after that. Shocking stuff. I'll get my COP28 info elsewhere thanks.
Whose war is it? (For the record)
@@NickBreeze It's a Russia v Ukraine war. ( for the record).
@@briansmith3791do you believe that Russia would have invaded Ukraine if Putin had not been in power? surely not….
@@tsb3093 Of course Russia would have taken the action that they did on Feb '22 whether President Putin was in power or not. NATO/Ukraine posed an existential threat to Russia with the potentiality of NATO missiles on Russia's border. Would the US allow Russian or Chinese missiles in Mexico or Canada? And that's not even counting the 11,000 Russian-speaking Ukrainians killed between the 2014 CIA/Nazi coup and Feb '22.
@@tsb3093 My reply disappeared!! Yes, Russia would still have invaded Ukraine whoever was in charge. NATO missiles in Ukraine are an existential threat to Russia. Would the US allow Russian or Chinese missiles in Mexico or Canada?
Exactly! “A transfer. Of wealth”. 😢😢😢😢😢
Don't forget the transfer of wealth in the United States. For all the dollars allocated towards war machines, 60% or more stays in the United States and goes to the billionaire military industrial privatized complex. It's a jobs bill!
Should I cry or laugh? Is there comfort in numbers who are in the same roller car? Surely there’s power in our numbers????
Yes we have power. But we have to organise ourselves. The law encapsulates the fraud of the hyper-rich. We have a duty to rebel. And to organise now together in our communities, towns, regions and nations and internationally what follows after non-violent-revolution. It's not someone elses problem is all of us together.
8 billion people decide our fossil fuels use.
Many of those people run businesses of all sizes.
They and the rest of us can decide what our fossil fuels use will be.
So far the oil industry is running scared from EVs, even though EVs so far make up less than 30% of vehicles on our roads anywhere outside Norway.
Why is that?
Why are they so scared of just a small number of EVs?
These two questions are very pertinent to what is going on.
Fossil fuels are going down for the count, but it won't be without a desperation fight.
Thank you for being loud and clear, I completely agree.
That idea of a climate organization of the global south is excellent!
It is and I i'm hearing this same sentiment from others. This is really important to explore because the West can't do it.☮️
We'll all be toasted peanut butter and meat sauce soon.
I did a comparison , Kevin , of the area of the U K - 243,000 sq Km versus Victoria, the smallest AUS state, of
227000 sq Km, with populations of, respectively, UK 61,000,000 versus VIC 6,700,000 !
Same size, tenth of the population !!!
Heat pumps are excellent, but they need to be implemented on a collective basis, as individual units aren't as efficient as larger district units. The established powers don't like collectives - business works better for them when it's dog eat dog.
The simple and inexpensive project of putting mirrors on roofs would hugely mitigate heating of the world. Do we do that simple thing, well in a few places and it works. Let's face it, we are over the edge and falling with no way to stop it now. I guess is the nature of humans to be greedy even when engineering their own demise.
According to Credit Suisse, individuals with more than $1 million in wealth sit in the top 1 percent bracket.
If my province of Alberta in Canada had the same population density of Great Britain we would have a population of 180,000,000 people, but we only have 4,500,000 people. Good luck Great* Britain with your 60,000,000 people.
Every COP is based on a cliff hanger.
Anytime anyone talks about reducing emissions, they should also mention the cost to reduce said emissions and more importantly mention the reduction in global temperature it will achieve. .. basically a cost benefit analysis.
❤❤❤This is like adjusting my grips on the handlebars of a roller coaster….should I as I get my first glimpse of the car’s moment to plunge down the steep slope into a dark tunnel raise up my hands and. Shout…………”Mercy!!!!!!!”?
We are well above. 1.5 c over 1750 base line now
Upbeat next year? He was already being upbeat. Appreciate he tells it like it is. A shame he can't name names and give even more of the dire details.
COP38 won't be necessary (or possible).
Correct!
Class war?
I do agree about the policy failure. Hydrogen use is stupid. We must stop the oil and drilling. But for scientists and lay people the side events are very good, such as the reports from the ICCi (international cryosphere)
The gloves come off! Tell it like it is! Anybody who ever thought this was going to turn out differently than this has not studied history. The rich and powerful are never going to give an inch. This is not going to get better so enjoy life as much as you can!
Thank you Nick and Kevin.
That was quite a humbling discussion.
Think of all the carbon that can be sequestered if we can just figure out how to recycle the frames on those glasses!
Bahamas has white tiles to avoid water evap as the water w collected in cisterns. Has been for 200 years!!!
I'd like to see a discussion about what the Chinese are doing. Maybe you have already covered this?
Nick, get a better microphone. Come ooooon. I can barely hear you.
The time of collecting data has gone
Game is over
We are in the middle of 12.000 years cosmic radiation cycles
nobody can stop it
Live the Now in Serenity and Harmony 🌎💫🙏
For the life of me I can't see the problem
They are “money junkies” A person who is mentally consumed by an addiction to money. Every aspect of his life suffers as he/she satisifies the addiction.
What I find (blackly) amusing is that industry is conducting ever more destructive "geo-engineering" in its day to day operation and that's vigorously defended as necessary for the economy.
But anyone talks about trialling "beneficial" geo-engineering and every man and his dog are screaming about the "risks". As if we aren't already screaming towards oblivion for life on earth.
None of this climate change action matters if the number one problem is not being addressed ! And it is not fossil fuels; it is HUMAN POPULATION GROWTH !!! If this is not addressed then all the rest is just TALK,TALK,TALK !
Clearly, that is not true. If we replaced fossil fuels with renewables in the next few years, then additional population wouldn't make any difference.
Use of fossil fuels is definitely the problem!
Says someone who is part of the "golden billion"
What I am or am not has no bearing on whether a statement is true or false.
@@philreilly6959 If we all lived like people in Bangladesh, Earth could support 25 billion people. (I read 30 billion but that was 20 years ago)
The problem is over consumption by a minority of humans on this planet and that is a verifiable #fact.
i don't thinks it is population but rather iniquity and also war that is major problem , get solution to these and maybe population after , ho i forgot economic growth i think thats leed to overpopulation
Fossil fuel oligarch:
"We've earnestly tried nothing, and none of it is working!"
What do you give to someone who has everything?
A talking to.
I honestly don't think things are quite as bad as is being made out.
This hydrogen stuff is DESPERATION.
Recently I learned that solar, just solar, not counting wind at all, has had huge increases in use in several countries in 2023.
Two notable names are the USA, and China.
Interestingly in the USA, this isn't big solar farms, it's personal solar systems being deployed by citizens.
We will see a lot more of this propaganda in the media as fossil fuels come under increasing pressure.
It's only affordable for those that can afford it in the United States. There is no equity in the rollout of renewables in the United States.
Why do you think geoengineering is not happening? Did you ever question why we didn't have ice free arctic in 2016?
There are no intentional geoengineering schemes operating.
How come anybody, and everybody, having anything whatsoever to do with anything, and everything in any and all of the COP meetings have such crappy damn audio.... always, always, always!!!!
We have an immovable object of non-negotiable lifestyles up against the unstoppable force of future
catastrophe something's gotta give, the general public are happy with this else they would all vote green,
just watched an ad for a device that produces immense heat from tiny electric power with this clip
so we now have a tech. fix for heating emissions LOL.
Well said. In Holland, they ve just elected in a right-wing anti islam guy, even if this Wilders dude may not become prime minister (needs to cooperate, while he's basically a one member party) but it's his anti migration stance that got him in first.
It's typical, folks don't wanna lose nor share their luxury lifestyle. Wilders is strongly anti Europe and anti climate policy as well.
His supporters may be in for a nasty surprise, once West Antarctica starts sliding, as our Western two thirds are under sea level. It's anyone's guess for how long (rising speed of sea levels ) them capital intensive seaside projects can be refinanced and insured. Can't see banks willing to risk long term investments in a country that might go under in a, by then, foreseeable future.
👍👍👍☹️
Stop emissions!!!
Never going to happen under neoliberal capitalism!
Kevin was still trying to be positive when he and Greta talked on his channel not very long ago. This is very sad. Was it really worth flying to Dubai? Seems like a boycott is in order.
Agree. I think Baku is a bridge too far. 🤔
Nuclear power? No chance with the lemming Greens.
The real problem with a transition to new nuclear power plants? There aren't enough qualified people around to build them. We have very few nuclear rated steamfitters, the few still around are aging out of the workforce.
What mindless crap the military sustain vast nuclear resources. Maybe Britain can do bigger all in anything worthwhile. That is no guide to anything- thank God.@@wmanadeau7860
What a joke. COP number 28 and not even the slightest dent in CO2. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 28 times…
Greta doesn't mince her words, when talking about the despicable behavior of the Megarich... Why should you, Kevin?
Quo vadis? Well, hopefully AI will now show us how inadequate, filtered and diminutive our thinking capacity is and so unmask why we cannot make progress on the climate challenge, and why a Gaian Earth is spitting us out. Once we sit down to that meal of humble pie we can only hope we get up with a clearer sense of direction. Thanks, Nick.@lionrocklr9217
Not all hydrogen has a high carbon footprint. Green and natural hydrogen are excellent. It is sad to see people I admire not do their homework. It's true that hydrogen should be used selectively, but producing it via hydrolysis is clean.
Sad but true: we are toast. Gather those you love around you and mourn the death of the biosphere. Have a nice day!😊
Thank you Nick. I am very interested in COP 28- well all of them. I've been watching the UN presentations, and of course this one right now, which is really really good. I would love to have you as a guest on my show if you would like to. There is so much we can learn from you Nick!!!!!🫶🏻
That's very kind. Sure.