Having seen so many broken fingers even in proper gloves, can confirm, hands are vulnerable and weak appendages. 0/10, I recommend removing your hands preemptively to reduce risk of injuries
This is something that is in my opinion underrated by many in terms of maces. No I don't mean that the hand is not or little protected most of the time. Axes have that problem too. But a mace hitting your hand or wrist can destroy your hand function even if you are wearing good armor.
Before watching: That depends on the Swords being used right? t's either the hand or If you have a bell guard or basket hilt it'd be part of the wrist or arm. Or Am I completely off I suppose I will know in 8 min. After Watching: Add Gauntlets to my shopping cart the next time at the armor store. YOUR HANDS ARE NEVER SAFE!
While, it can be somewhat true. I have a full basket on my cutlass (because it's ambidextrous). The hand disappears in protection. So the most forward target would be my forearm. There's an Indian sword (don't remember the name) that covers right up to the elbow.
This is why George Silver was so into basket hilts. However, various military writers of the time (1590s) recommended against basket hilts for both soldiers who wore gauntlets & those who didn't. Sir John Smythe exact recommendation is unclear, but I suspect it was something along the lines of a sidesword (he mentioned Spanish/Italian arming swords an example of his desired hilt). Humphrey Barwick specified a simple cross for armored troops who wore gauntlets. I'm not sure why Smythe & Barwick disliked basket hilts. It may have been because they thought they were hard to draw swiftly or wear comfortably. Smythe wanted his pikers to be able to draw both their swords & daggers (one in each hand) in the twinkling of an eye.
Swords were traditionally secondary weapon and oftentimes paired to a polearm, bow lance and then later, matchlock. On the field of war you would use those first then draw your sword. Complex hilt make it harder to draw in a pinch and more uncomfortable to wear and it military combat going for the hands can be seen as a waste on time because you want to make sure your end the fight with your amped up nutjob as quickly as possible. Also, I suspect that Dueling is a little bit overemphasized in the HEMA community sort of like pistol dueling is overplayed in cowboy movies. Ganging up on one person, ambushing, and murder are hard to simulate safetlyand make for sloppy showing. In video gaming basically following the footsteps on the song of Roland, later Conan the Barbarian, etc and just apply to every martial context.
The worst thing for a spear/pike user when their weapon got grabbed is to hold to it, wrestling for control. Its much safer to grab your sword/dagger and stab the opponent in an exposed area, as they open themselves while grabbing your polearm.
@@PJDAltamirus0425 That makes sense, however we know that certain effective units *did* use basket-hilted swords & could apparently draw them quickly enough. Highland Scots & their famous charge are one example of this. The schiavona would be another. Basket-hilted swords remained in use by Scottish troops throughout the 19th century. & lots of 19th-century British swords had a half or three-quarters basket. Sir John Smythe noted that hand wounds could easily render a soldier useless when recommending gauntlets. He valued hand protection but still thought something less than a full basket best for soldiers who didn't wear gauntlets (archers, arquebusiers, musketeers).
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 Yeah, I was just explaining the rational why less protective guard style stuck even after the invention of complex guards. Hell, matt easton showed an example of sword type that is cross hilted sword that dated 19th to beginning of the flipping twentieth century because the rational was that you wouldn't be getting into sword on sword duels, the sword would most likely be parrying rifles with affixed bayonets.
Everyone who has ever fought with even Play swords as a kid knows the pain of getting smacked in the fingers, Ended my will to fight pretty quick lol. 👍⚔🤺💢🥵😡🤬
My best friend and I would use hockey sticks as play swords as a kid. We wore are hockey gloves but it didn't really do anything and it ended with him having three broken fingers.
In my battojutsu training, the hands and wrist are prime targets. The experienced students typically go for these areas first, then go in for the killing strike.
Mantis Kung Fu...ancient swordsmen...always attack and control the limbs. We always attack the wrists and hands, legs and joints, from distance, closing the gap. Awesome vid.
Hey Skall, I don't know if anybody has already told you that, but right know you look just like Saruman from The Lord of the Rings. That's so cool, man.
There's a wonderful sequence in Eldest, a sequel to Eragon, where one of the main characters is in a battle and cuts off his enemy's thumb. The enemy drops his sword, of course, looks up at him and says "this is what I get for not protecting my hands." The main character simply says "aye" and cuts out his throat. I often think about it as an excellent point about the nasty parts of fighting.
The fact that your uploading videos like this actually explaining something very frequently means your are very smart and you won’t run out of ideas keep it up man your actually one of the best youtubers ever
DEFANG THE SNAKE! When I learned stick fighting and knife fighting 20 years ago, protecting and targeting the hand was the first thing we learned. That and if you give a marker to a kid and try to stop them from marking you, you will fail, and thus knife fighting should always be an absolute last resort because you WILL get cut or stabbed 99.9% of the time.
Too bad in HEMA sparring and tournament now days (at least in Blood and Iron) people tends to avoid hand targeting and go for arms and body blows instead
Folks overstate what the marker test teaches. A marker will leave a mark with the barest contact. Even sharp knives won't cut or won't cut much with minimal contact, especially against clothing. It's possible to avoid getting cut or stabbed in a knife fight or in unarmed self-defense against a knife & that should always be the goal, however lofty it may be. Likewise, one should always prepare to fight on if injured, as most any weapon can injure without immediately incapacitating (including firearms).
The mobility/protection ratio is perpetually tough. This reminds me why, as robust looking as the anxiously-awaited Pro-Gauntlets are, SPES Heavy mitten-style hand protection will remain unrivaled. When you have each finger separate from another they are open to get sniped and bashed about on their own, whereas when your hand is a unit each individual finger is less susceptible. The thumb seems destined to always be particularly vulnerable, though.
This reminds me of when I read Njal’s Saga. I don’t remember how many but a good number of fighters in that often lost a hand before anything. I know sagas aren’t always accurate, but still, I wouldn’t be surprised if that really happened.
As someone who practices a lot of forms and doesn't have much experience with sparring, I appreciate your insight into this. The issues faced in actual fights are difficult to address in forms, and these observations help to make my practice more practical.
One of the things I love about Basket Hilt Broadswords/Backswords. (Also, Singlesticks) The basket gets in the way, you bang your wrist up a lot swinging, and twisting it around, but your hand is protected, extremely well.
Watching this made me remember the earnestness of the hand’s ‘weak link in the chain!’ A good bit of military training gets boiled down to: “Just the FACTS, Ma’am!!” HANDS ~ if you’re having to guard a POW/Asshole (either way..), you’re taught to ALWAYS WATCH The HANDS ~ they telegraph/communicate your enemy’s intent! Just as hands are vulnerable, so too are they the ‘Canary in the Cage,’ so to speak. Excellent Video with some superb points to think, exercise & adapt..🇺🇸
This is why I feel like basket-hilted swords like the Rapier, Scottish broadsword, Schiavona, etc. Are insanely OP. Because they all surround your hand in this thing I like to call "The Iron Basket." That might be a damn good weapon by itself.
This is why I always trained with a small hilt sword, as it trains you better to protect your hands when you attack as otherwise you will get punished. My best friend, who taught me sword fighting techniques(I say that way as we blended HEMA, traditional Japanese and fencing techniques together) explained that to me and immediately demonstrated the importance of protecting my hands by landing a blow across the back of my hand that if using real swords would severed it at that point or mangled it beyond use at the very least. We were using bamboo shinai(spelling?). We didn't start training with blunted swords until he was confident in my skill level. I would suggest this to everyone wanting to learn, as you can get a better feel for the speed and power of blows without anything worse than some bruises, or maybe a fractured rib or phlange
Dragongloves, venumgloves, icehockeygloves etc. is generaly the worst protective gloves in sparring. I almost lost my left middlefinger in Huskarl (A form of Full Contact) using a Dane Axe. And the sword hit me in the fingers and the fingers was between the shaft and the sword which makes a pressure damage and then cut into the flesh. And i used icehockeygloves, which has no protection inside of the glove whatsoever. So i had to buy myself custom made gloves with hardened leather, and fingerprotections.
your takes as of lately have starte to become more complex and moderate. this seems like quite a nice development do to you getting better and better and not simplifying stuff anymore. keep going man you are doing great
From sabre fencing with a full basket hilt, the most common place to be hit is the inner wrist. Its only another couple of inches. (the head is common too, if you are in distance, its slightly harder to defend.) Since its a quick light blade, it is common amongst advanced fencers to close distance with an absent guard, blade down by thigh, until striking.
It's a good point, my opinion is your hands should be the hardest target to hit. It's an equal playing field and requires correct form in training. Blessings sensei
You can get fingertip caps to put in your Red Dragon gloves. I've found these useful for single handed swords, but not longsword. I took a hit to the back of the hand from a Black Fencer synthetic longsword and ended up in the hospital having an x-ray. Fortunately no bones were broken but it still took a couple of weeks for the swelling and pain to subside. I bought some Spes Heavies after that.
One point I take from the manuals and the five basic Huten / Guards in the German treatises, is that the hands are usually further back then the head for this reason. With the forward-leaning stance you often see, you can place your hands behind the imaginary vertical line that determines what part of your body is the nearest point of attack for the opponent. Langort for example is a break from that, but it is a highly defensible guard to begin with.
~1980, SCA, hockey glove, crosshilt plus barndoor pull knucklebow, caught an odd blow that lit up the nerves of all four fingertips of my sword hand, through just the thin leather at the fingertips of the gloves. It put me into shock. Massive blood pressure drop, half fainted, recovered slowly sitting on my butt. Was done for the day.
I remember hearing that cup hilt rapiers were banned in certain competitions because of some sort of unfair advantage. I wonder if they had something to do with sniping at the hands...
We played with sticks a lot as kids. Not just any stick, those stick would often be as thick as my wrist on the hitting end. We never, ever forgot how it could hurt, so hands were always a no-no zone in our plays, just like heads. Our fingers never got seriously hurt but damn it stings! Accidentally hitting someone's fingers would always stop the fight. When you get used to that though - I know a person who didn't notice her thumb got cracked until the next day, so here's that.
My sparring gloves are a pair of thick brushed leather gardening gloves. Surprisingly mobile while giving surprisingly good protection. Definitely not the best at either but better than I thought they would be when I bought them for like $5 (I needed a cheap stand-in option while shopping around and ended up keeping them).
Oh yeah, that with the fingers pinned against the hilt is a very good point. I got my little finger almost amputated holding a round shield of all things. Got open by a spear hit on one side and received an axe hit on the inside towards the handle...
I think this perfectly comes back to swordsages rebuttal to skall on the small chinese garde's wherein you protect the hands with skill and technique, also a shield wouldn't hurt.
In my starter group we use Japanese Shinai, bamboo swords. We use more or less hand protection, but even the better ones can't absorb the shock of a good hit to the fingers. Noticed the pain again today and the last session was a month or so ago...
I say this every once in a while, but I would love sparring with you sir. I don't do European weapon arts, I don't really do weapon arts at all, but that is why. I would feel like sparring and talking with you in person would really broaden my thoughts on weapons. I typically do unarmed and not really a big weapons scene in my area. But opposite sides of the continent . lol
"The most vulnerable target that people often don't think of"... I'm thinking back to when my brother and I would 'sword fight' as kids - I'd want to do some cool choreographed stuff, but he ALWAYS went for the hands!
I am NO martial arts practicioner, and no expert in duells. Some years ago i watched a special exhibition/ Sonderausstellung at the ,Wehrheschichliches Museum' in Rastatt, Germany with the toppic ,duells'. When i remember right, in a ,first blood' duell in cut fencing a wound longer than one Zoll/ inch and in thrust fencing a wound which showed a triangle counted as a honourable duell wound, but the body part was not noted.
Yeah it’s hard to find but they had gloves/gauntlets for this. Not documented a lot but I was curious about this a while ago. There’s a reason both Japanese and European texts sometimes, not often though, would have people wearing gauntlets/gloves. It’s seen less often but there were extra thick leather gloves in saber and fencing duels. For Japan there is the Han kote thing but people misinterpreted the use. Han kote wear not made for ninjas. 🤔 There is actually notes of the sword skipping the guard and hand. However then hitting the forearm. So if a samurai was expecting trouble they could lightly protect their hands without being heavily armored. That being said it was a thing used for official business. A very apparently thing used for official business.
hi Skall, i have a request for a video if you don't mind it. what about analysing the weaponry (melee mainly but, as you want) and armours in warhammer 40K. Or more preciselly in space marines? what is the best melee weapon for a superhuman? could a chainsword work? a thought on power armors... that kind of things. As a warhammer fan i should be more than glad to see a video focused on that.
Personally, I can understand why you might see the disc guard upon the first impression as potentially bad hand protection. However, as you might have guessed? different areas of the world kept their designs for specific reasons. and I can imagine there is a good reason why smaller less noticeable guards became so commonplace among some of the more commonly known Asian sword designs like the Dao, the Jian, the Wakizashi, and the Uchi-Gatana. as each one probably had a decent reason for their popular use of a smaller guard. It might be interesting to take a look into ^^
During a reenactment battle which involved shield walls, I accidentally poked a guy who had his sword hand over his shield with my Dane axe. He wore padded gloves with maille (granted, it was a cheap reproduction), but his hand was crushed and required medical attention. I swear, the hands are the most vulnerable part of any combatant, and a jab which would be easily absorbed by a gambeson or even a helmet seems to be enough to incapacitate someone. That being said, he said the blame was his for guarding with his hand in front of his shield lol.
I've played in boffer LARP's and even when hand hits dont count, forearms are a lovely target. And in an irl situation, even a glancing cut to an ankle or forearm will slow your opponent down.
Got a couple of hits with Red Dragons, maybe I have strong fingers because I never got anything more than bruises but switching to mittens made all the difference, for new people: don't skip the gloves, I know they cost a lot and are uncomfortable but hurting your hands is not fun, been having a great time with SPES which are the "cheap" option
When I teach someone who is completely new to swordplay, I usually compare it to other disciplines. If you want to learn cooking, pay attention, but accept that you may get burns. If you want to learn painting, be precise, but accept that a shirt here and there may be ruined. If you want to learn swordsmanship, watch closely, but accept that your hands may get beat up. Especcially since in chinese fencing we dont wear gloves. It's just part and parcel.
Another interesting video. Though speaking of hilts, in David Weber's Honor Harrington series on the planet Grayson there was a traditional dueling blade that is, as far as I can recall, described as looking like a katana with either a bell grip or a basket hilt ( I can't recall which.) Possibly with the back top third sharpened as well. Would a sword like that work?
I wonder if one could make a set of rigid demi-gauntlets to cover the back of the hand and fingers of a lacrosse/red dragon style glove? Maybe something synthetic like the hard plastic they use for elbow protectors so it wouldn't cut up the grip of your sword like the edge of a metal plate.
Every tried finger gauntlets with finger bucklers, that wa yyou can sort of have mitten protection when practicing longsword, then ditching the bucklers when using something with complex guard.
In unarmored combat, historically, it is the head that is most vulnerable, if ancient and medieval soldiers wear any type of protection, that would be a helmet in priority. If we look at ancient and early medieval armor, we can see that soldiers never wear protection on the hands, and rarely on forearms. Real hand protections seems to appear in the 13th century. That really puzzled me for a time and I realized that the context was really different, in formation fighting, it is rare to aim for the hands, touching vital areas of the opponent is what's matters the most. But in reality, the hand was not totally unprotected, because soldiers were equiped with shields, which can accompany the hand while striking.
I know that pain. I was sparring with someone who was taught to aim for the opponents sword. I did a feint, and they came for it, as I changed to my actual attack, they missed the blade and caught me across the hand, right between 2 fingers. Since we were using wooden practice swords, it was a good thwack. I am waiting for your response to Shad's video about 5' engagement. He seems to think 10' is better for a sword
I have instinctively done that since the first time I picked up a safer sword at my local renaissance festival. Dodge and strike the hand/arm. Followed by a blow to the body, head or leg.
I'd be curious to know how much historical evidence there is about attacking the hands. Sure it's a concern when fighting but I feel if it was a huge deal the change in hilts would have been more dramatic.
No matter how much hand protection even the most protective type of guard may offer, the wrist could be struck by almost the same movement that would strike a less protected hand. Even if one uses a gauntlet, the forearm could be struck in much the same way, same for the elbow, if one uses a vambrace. It is always a better idea to protect one's hand through movement of the hand and one's blade: after all, although the hand is the target closest to one's opponent, it is also the fastest moving. That being said, in order to prevent or reduce injuries during sparring, especially to the delicate bones of the wrists and fingers, the use of gauntlets could have been widespread.
There is a bit of an inverse relationship between armor/shield and complex hand protection in sword fighting. The swords with the most hand protection were ones that were meant to be used with less/minimal armor and no shield, either because they were civilian defense weapons (rapier, small sword), or they were used in an era when heavy armor was falling out of style (Sabre, cutlass, most basket hilted swords). Most swords that didn't have as much hand protection were the ones used in the days of plate armor and/or shield use, like the arming sword, migration/"viking" swords, longsword, falchion, and even ancient world swords.
Hand hits on the hilt is WAY worse than you think because not only is it trapped, it is generally speaking moving forwards as it is snipped so you have momentum AND crushing shopping action. That said, I do notice that hand hits in cut and thrust or heavy rapier in SCA seems to happens a LOT less than HEMA clubs. And when I spar SCA folks, sniping hands is hard...but I find it quite easy in HEMA groups. This could be because of the rules of the spar. In HEMA, a hand hit is worth small number of points generally speaking. In the SCA, you lose the use of the entire arm...with both hands getting hit resulting in a loss. So the HEMA, hands are not valuable targets while the SCA, they are. Also hand hits even with the lighter calibrations hurts a LOT more in the SCA with leather gloves. I have gotten a LOT better at being aware of hand protection. One thing that really helps is not doing anything committed unless you are in a bind first so you know what their blade is doing. Something hard to do in HEMA gloves, but can do in leather ones is when the snipe at your hand, let go of the hand they are targeting, let it hit your hilt and than trap or grab their sword. I don't disagree that hands are a good target to aim for...but from the safety of a bind, I find forearms more tempting personally.
My friends and I didn't ever count hits to the hand because they were far too common and once your opponent loses both hands, it's no fun finishing them off
That’s the Kingston Arms Sidesword trainer, right? Been eyeing both the blunt and the sharp, I love Sideswords and the design looks pretty decent on them.
I know we're talking about sparring but in a combat situation armor could only take so much punishment so basket hilt would help postpone the inevitable
Funny you should release this video now. On Monday I was sabre sparring Thomas, and took a nasty hit on the index finger that has me out of training. Totally my fault though. I was digging through my gear bin for my medium weight gloves and having trouble finding them (why is all HEMA gear black). I got impatient because people were waiting on me and grabbed my lacrosse gloves thinking "I'll just be careful/the D-guard will protect me." That was a mistake.
Oh yeah, back before the days of youtube when you got websites with wmv vids and about the only books I could find are from John Clements, I got hit in the fingers even with decent guards. Edit: But ultimately it it almost never seemed to be a purposed hit to the fingers, but a constant ongoing accident that would just crop up.
@@brianlam5847 you just blew my mind. Just remember that when you use a pocket sand attack you have to say the name of the attack as You use it. "Pocket Sand"
The solution is simple: When your opponent goes for your hands, just spin! Now your hands are entirely protected by your spine and vital organs.
What about a back flip so you are protected by your cushy butt cheeks?
That's better than my solution. Which is a well timed Bruce Lee back flip. Allowing your opponent to strike the cod piece.
I see you attended the Hollywood school of swordfighting
@@madshad3351 Don't forget to kick off of a wall at the start of the maneuver. That's the key to true sword mastery.
@@madshad3351 Don't you mean to strike with your cod piece?
Having seen so many broken fingers even in proper gloves, can confirm, hands are vulnerable and weak appendages. 0/10, I recommend removing your hands preemptively to reduce risk of injuries
Lol! 😁😁😁
And attach the sword like a bayonet
Replace hand with sword. Simple solution.
@@overlorddante So the Sword Gauntlet. I've always liked that weapon. Shadiversity did a video on it for one of his Underrappretiated Weapons series.
@@CosmicG777 Pata.
This is something that is in my opinion underrated by many in terms of maces. No I don't mean that the hand is not or little protected most of the time. Axes have that problem too. But a mace hitting your hand or wrist can destroy your hand function even if you are wearing good armor.
Thats a very good point. Guess you dont need to protect your own hands so much if you just smash your opponents 1st X)
Yeah a mace hit to the wrist would pretty much shatter it, I’d presume
Invest in a basket hilt sword. Got it
Or gauntlets
Or any firearm:)
@@joe125ful Firearms are terrible for sparring.
@@yoursexualizedgrandparents6929 Yes but it have very long range and some old/new fire arms can be used to defend your self too..
@@joe125ful well hema with a firearm is like home defense with a howitzer cannon
Before watching: That depends on the Swords being used right? t's either the hand or If you have a bell guard or basket hilt it'd be part of the wrist or arm. Or Am I completely off I suppose I will know in 8 min.
After Watching: Add Gauntlets to my shopping cart the next time at the armor store. YOUR HANDS ARE NEVER SAFE!
i recently ordered a pair, after getting into HEMA realised how important it was
imagine getting hit in the fingers with a mace, holy shit.
While, it can be somewhat true. I have a full basket on my cutlass (because it's ambidextrous). The hand disappears in protection. So the most forward target would be my forearm. There's an Indian sword (don't remember the name) that covers right up to the elbow.
This is why George Silver was so into basket hilts. However, various military writers of the time (1590s) recommended against basket hilts for both soldiers who wore gauntlets & those who didn't. Sir John Smythe exact recommendation is unclear, but I suspect it was something along the lines of a sidesword (he mentioned Spanish/Italian arming swords an example of his desired hilt). Humphrey Barwick specified a simple cross for armored troops who wore gauntlets. I'm not sure why Smythe & Barwick disliked basket hilts. It may have been because they thought they were hard to draw swiftly or wear comfortably. Smythe wanted his pikers to be able to draw both their swords & daggers (one in each hand) in the twinkling of an eye.
Swords were traditionally secondary weapon and oftentimes paired to a polearm, bow lance and then later, matchlock. On the field of war you would use those first then draw your sword. Complex hilt make it harder to draw in a pinch and more uncomfortable to wear and it military combat going for the hands can be seen as a waste on time because you want to make sure your end the fight with your amped up nutjob as quickly as possible. Also, I suspect that Dueling is a little bit overemphasized in the HEMA community sort of like pistol dueling is overplayed in cowboy movies. Ganging up on one person, ambushing, and murder are hard to simulate safetlyand make for sloppy showing. In video gaming basically following the footsteps on the song of Roland, later Conan the Barbarian, etc and just apply to every martial context.
The worst thing for a spear/pike user when their weapon got grabbed is to hold to it, wrestling for control. Its much safer to grab your sword/dagger and stab the opponent in an exposed area, as they open themselves while grabbing your polearm.
@@PJDAltamirus0425 That makes sense, however we know that certain effective units *did* use basket-hilted swords & could apparently draw them quickly enough. Highland Scots & their famous charge are one example of this. The schiavona would be another. Basket-hilted swords remained in use by Scottish troops throughout the 19th century. & lots of 19th-century British swords had a half or three-quarters basket.
Sir John Smythe noted that hand wounds could easily render a soldier useless when recommending gauntlets. He valued hand protection but still thought something less than a full basket best for soldiers who didn't wear gauntlets (archers, arquebusiers, musketeers).
@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 Yeah, I was just explaining the rational why less protective guard style stuck even after the invention of complex guards. Hell, matt easton showed an example of sword type that is cross hilted sword that dated 19th to beginning of the flipping twentieth century because the rational was that you wouldn't be getting into sword on sword duels, the sword would most likely be parrying rifles with affixed bayonets.
Everyone who has ever fought with even Play swords as a kid knows the pain of getting smacked in the fingers, Ended my will to fight pretty quick lol. 👍⚔🤺💢🥵😡🤬
At worst it dang hurts : P And as ar as i know especially potential deadly ights, were not above being dirty.
My best friend and I would use hockey sticks as play swords as a kid. We wore are hockey gloves but it didn't really do anything and it ended with him having three broken fingers.
In my battojutsu training, the hands and wrist are prime targets. The experienced students typically go for these areas first, then go in for the killing strike.
Thank you mr weeaboo very cool
@@KamenRaiden Your welcome internet person 😜
Mantis Kung Fu...ancient swordsmen...always attack and control the limbs. We always attack the wrists and hands, legs and joints, from distance, closing the gap. Awesome vid.
Hey Skall, I don't know if anybody has already told you that, but right know you look just like Saruman from The Lord of the Rings. That's so cool, man.
4:36 I finally figured out that a "discard" is actually a disc guard.
There's a wonderful sequence in Eldest, a sequel to Eragon, where one of the main characters is in a battle and cuts off his enemy's thumb. The enemy drops his sword, of course, looks up at him and says "this is what I get for not protecting my hands." The main character simply says "aye" and cuts out his throat. I often think about it as an excellent point about the nasty parts of fighting.
“Think about putting it on a chopping block” winces
The fact that your uploading videos like this actually explaining something very frequently means your are very smart and you won’t run out of ideas keep it up man your actually one of the best youtubers ever
DEFANG THE SNAKE! When I learned stick fighting and knife fighting 20 years ago, protecting and targeting the hand was the first thing we learned. That and if you give a marker to a kid and try to stop them from marking you, you will fail, and thus knife fighting should always be an absolute last resort because you WILL get cut or stabbed 99.9% of the time.
"In a knife fight, the loser dies in the alley, and the winner dies in the ambulance"
Too bad in HEMA sparring and tournament now days (at least in Blood and Iron) people tends to avoid hand targeting and go for arms and body blows instead
@40seen s17gil11 Yep :)
Folks overstate what the marker test teaches. A marker will leave a mark with the barest contact. Even sharp knives won't cut or won't cut much with minimal contact, especially against clothing. It's possible to avoid getting cut or stabbed in a knife fight or in unarmed self-defense against a knife & that should always be the goal, however lofty it may be. Likewise, one should always prepare to fight on if injured, as most any weapon can injure without immediately incapacitating (including firearms).
The mobility/protection ratio is perpetually tough. This reminds me why, as robust looking as the anxiously-awaited Pro-Gauntlets are, SPES Heavy mitten-style hand protection will remain unrivaled. When you have each finger separate from another they are open to get sniped and bashed about on their own, whereas when your hand is a unit each individual finger is less susceptible. The thumb seems destined to always be particularly vulnerable, though.
As my Martial arts instructor (Wing Chun), 'appetizer first, main course second.'
This reminds me of when I read Njal’s Saga. I don’t remember how many but a good number of fighters in that often lost a hand before anything. I know sagas aren’t always accurate, but still, I wouldn’t be surprised if that really happened.
As we learned very early in katana-work: 'No fingers - no cookies.'
As someone who practices a lot of forms and doesn't have much experience with sparring, I appreciate your insight into this. The issues faced in actual fights are difficult to address in forms, and these observations help to make my practice more practical.
Lesson of today: Fingers Hurt a lot when hit so be careful about fingers.
And very easy to break and cut off even in from blunt weapon strike.
Every time i hit my pinky toe..
Love your channel and have followed for years and as much as I enjoy the sparring videos I find myself missing the reviews and the unboxings.
One of the things I love about Basket Hilt Broadswords/Backswords. (Also, Singlesticks) The basket gets in the way, you bang your wrist up a lot swinging, and twisting it around, but your hand is protected, extremely well.
And now I'm thinking that somewhere out there there's a field full of fingers from a battle of poorly-armored people.
Watching this made me remember the earnestness of the hand’s ‘weak link in the chain!’ A good bit of military training gets boiled down to: “Just the FACTS, Ma’am!!” HANDS ~ if you’re having to guard a POW/Asshole (either way..), you’re taught to ALWAYS WATCH The HANDS ~ they telegraph/communicate your enemy’s intent! Just as hands are vulnerable, so too are they the ‘Canary in the Cage,’ so to speak. Excellent Video with some superb points to think, exercise & adapt..🇺🇸
This is why I feel like basket-hilted swords like the Rapier, Scottish broadsword, Schiavona, etc. Are insanely OP. Because they all surround your hand in this thing I like to call "The Iron Basket." That might be a damn good weapon by itself.
This is why I always trained with a small hilt sword, as it trains you better to protect your hands when you attack as otherwise you will get punished. My best friend, who taught me sword fighting techniques(I say that way as we blended HEMA, traditional Japanese and fencing techniques together) explained that to me and immediately demonstrated the importance of protecting my hands by landing a blow across the back of my hand that if using real swords would severed it at that point or mangled it beyond use at the very least. We were using bamboo shinai(spelling?). We didn't start training with blunted swords until he was confident in my skill level. I would suggest this to everyone wanting to learn, as you can get a better feel for the speed and power of blows without anything worse than some bruises, or maybe a fractured rib or phlange
Dragongloves, venumgloves, icehockeygloves etc. is generaly the worst protective gloves in sparring. I almost lost my left middlefinger in Huskarl (A form of Full Contact) using a Dane Axe. And the sword hit me in the fingers and the fingers was between the shaft and the sword which makes a pressure damage and then cut into the flesh. And i used icehockeygloves, which has no protection inside of the glove whatsoever. So i had to buy myself custom made gloves with hardened leather, and fingerprotections.
your takes as of lately have starte to become more complex and moderate. this seems like quite a nice development do to you getting better and better and not simplifying stuff anymore. keep going man you are doing great
From sabre fencing with a full basket hilt, the most common place to be hit is the inner wrist. Its only another couple of inches. (the head is common too, if you are in distance, its slightly harder to defend.) Since its a quick light blade, it is common amongst advanced fencers to close distance with an absent guard, blade down by thigh, until striking.
It's a good point, my opinion is your hands should be the hardest target to hit. It's an equal playing field and requires correct form in training. Blessings sensei
Man, that took a long time to record.
Hands are just vulnerable. I'm amazed at how delecate they can be.
Great video. Sword fights are very dynamic and what looks safe in a static position it's not so much while moving
You can get fingertip caps to put in your Red Dragon gloves. I've found these useful for single handed swords, but not longsword. I took a hit to the back of the hand from a Black Fencer synthetic longsword and ended up in the hospital having an x-ray. Fortunately no bones were broken but it still took a couple of weeks for the swelling and pain to subside. I bought some Spes Heavies after that.
The answer to all of this is to buy a "dancing sword" from your local mage guild
I remember playing with those plastic lightsabers as a kid and a hit on the hand hurt like hell, I cant imagine how a Feder is gonna sting.
I remember getting middle finger and ring finger hit hard enough to blister. I bought padded gloves soon after that.
I remember my finger broken. Continued to spar, then went home and figured out that something is wrong at about 3 am. Started to hurt too much
One point I take from the manuals and the five basic Huten / Guards in the German treatises, is that the hands are usually further back then the head for this reason. With the forward-leaning stance you often see, you can place your hands behind the imaginary vertical line that determines what part of your body is the nearest point of attack for the opponent.
Langort for example is a break from that, but it is a highly defensible guard to begin with.
~1980, SCA, hockey glove, crosshilt plus barndoor pull knucklebow, caught an odd blow that lit up the nerves of all four fingertips of my sword hand, through just the thin leather at the fingertips of the gloves. It put me into shock. Massive blood pressure drop, half fainted, recovered slowly sitting on my butt. Was done for the day.
Skall, you'll never believe this, I actually got this vidio on my home screen recommendations
Imagine if lightsaber fights would like with practical martial arts, so many hand and finger snipes
Lol Lord Vader already knew that
it is already like that bro, they are a lot of hands chopped off
*[que the numerous hand chop scenes]*
You mean so many MORE hand and finger snipes.
That's why they gave kids the training sabers that can't cut things.
I remember hearing that cup hilt rapiers were banned in certain competitions because of some sort of unfair advantage. I wonder if they had something to do with sniping at the hands...
always wondered about that, but then i remember the trash can lid and broomstick days and i know about stinging hands and bruised hands
that one downvote from the maker of those bad gauntlets.
Speedy recovery wishes!
We played with sticks a lot as kids. Not just any stick, those stick would often be as thick as my wrist on the hitting end. We never, ever forgot how it could hurt, so hands were always a no-no zone in our plays, just like heads. Our fingers never got seriously hurt but damn it stings! Accidentally hitting someone's fingers would always stop the fight.
When you get used to that though - I know a person who didn't notice her thumb got cracked until the next day, so here's that.
The sunshiine really helps the lighting of the video, possibly worth the blinding green splodge in your vision.
My sparring gloves are a pair of thick brushed leather gardening gloves. Surprisingly mobile while giving surprisingly good protection. Definitely not the best at either but better than I thought they would be when I bought them for like $5 (I needed a cheap stand-in option while shopping around and ended up keeping them).
I would suggest getting armored mittens, they were more popular back in the day because they offer much better protection to your fingers.
4:43 bucklers were used with basket and cup hilts historically.
Yeah, all that he is showing is that I.33 is funky system to try to used with a side sword.
Oh yeah, that with the fingers pinned against the hilt is a very good point. I got my little finger almost amputated holding a round shield of all things. Got open by a spear hit on one side and received an axe hit on the inside towards the handle...
I think this perfectly comes back to swordsages rebuttal to skall on the small chinese garde's wherein you protect the hands with skill and technique, also a shield wouldn't hurt.
In my starter group we use Japanese Shinai, bamboo swords. We use more or less hand protection, but even the better ones can't absorb the shock of a good hit to the fingers. Noticed the pain again today and the last session was a month or so ago...
I say this every once in a while, but I would love sparring with you sir. I don't do European weapon arts, I don't really do weapon arts at all, but that is why. I would feel like sparring and talking with you in person would really broaden my thoughts on weapons. I typically do unarmed and not really a big weapons scene in my area. But opposite sides of the continent
. lol
"The most vulnerable target that people often don't think of"... I'm thinking back to when my brother and I would 'sword fight' as kids - I'd want to do some cool choreographed stuff, but he ALWAYS went for the hands!
This may sound stupid, but was hand sniping considered "bad manners" during a duel? Was there such a thing as dueling etiquette?
Oooh, I love that question, good idea. :)
Well, the move coup de jarnac is considered to be a bit of a dirty move, but there is nothing wrong with it really
Sounds less rude to me than a blow to the head
I think it’s safe to assume it was based on the standard dueling rule of only drawing blood from the torso
I am NO martial arts practicioner, and no expert in duells. Some years ago i watched a special exhibition/ Sonderausstellung at the ,Wehrheschichliches Museum' in Rastatt, Germany with the toppic ,duells'. When i remember right, in a ,first blood' duell in cut fencing a wound longer than one Zoll/ inch and in thrust fencing a wound which showed a triangle counted as a honourable duell wound, but the body part was not noted.
Yeah it’s hard to find but they had gloves/gauntlets for this. Not documented a lot but I was curious about this a while ago.
There’s a reason both Japanese and European texts sometimes, not often though, would have people wearing gauntlets/gloves. It’s seen less often but there were extra thick leather gloves in saber and fencing duels. For Japan there is the Han kote thing but people misinterpreted the use. Han kote wear not made for ninjas. 🤔
There is actually notes of the sword skipping the guard and hand. However then hitting the forearm. So if a samurai was expecting trouble they could lightly protect their hands without being heavily armored. That being said it was a thing used for official business. A very apparently thing used for official business.
When you’re playing with lightsabers with your friends and they hit your hand
hi Skall, i have a request for a video if you don't mind it. what about analysing the weaponry (melee mainly but, as you want) and armours in warhammer 40K. Or more preciselly in space marines? what is the best melee weapon for a superhuman? could a chainsword work? a thought on power armors... that kind of things. As a warhammer fan i should be more than glad to see a video focused on that.
Thank you for your Cervix Skall.
Personally, I can understand why you might see the disc guard upon the first impression as potentially bad hand protection. However, as you might have guessed? different areas of the world kept their designs for specific reasons. and I can imagine there is a good reason why smaller less noticeable guards became so commonplace among some of the more commonly known Asian sword designs like the Dao, the Jian, the Wakizashi, and the Uchi-Gatana. as each one probably had a decent reason for their popular use of a smaller guard. It might be interesting to take a look into ^^
During a reenactment battle which involved shield walls, I accidentally poked a guy who had his sword hand over his shield with my Dane axe. He wore padded gloves with maille (granted, it was a cheap reproduction), but his hand was crushed and required medical attention. I swear, the hands are the most vulnerable part of any combatant, and a jab which would be easily absorbed by a gambeson or even a helmet seems to be enough to incapacitate someone.
That being said, he said the blame was his for guarding with his hand in front of his shield lol.
Skallagrim slowly turning into Saruman the White
I'd say the most vulnerable part is the one you get physically closest to your opponent.
Watching this after getting a pommel thrust to the finger where the nail meets the flesh yesterday. Good times
Me: laughs in Scottish broadsword
I do love the claymore.
Underated comment
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Yes
Lmaooo them basket hilts
The pirates be laughin' with 'ya.
Cutlass is the original brass knuckles.
I've played in boffer LARP's and even when hand hits dont count, forearms are a lovely target. And in an irl situation, even a glancing cut to an ankle or forearm will slow your opponent down.
Thus spoketh Sword Jesus.
Got a couple of hits with Red Dragons, maybe I have strong fingers because I never got anything more than bruises but switching to mittens made all the difference, for new people: don't skip the gloves, I know they cost a lot and are uncomfortable but hurting your hands is not fun, been having a great time with SPES which are the "cheap" option
When I teach someone who is completely new to swordplay, I usually compare it to other disciplines. If you want to learn cooking, pay attention, but accept that you may get burns. If you want to learn painting, be precise, but accept that a shirt here and there may be ruined. If you want to learn swordsmanship, watch closely, but accept that your hands may get beat up. Especcially since in chinese fencing we dont wear gloves. It's just part and parcel.
Love sparring videos
Polish XVI and XVII century accounts apparently often mentioned gentlemen missing fingers due to frequent duels.
Another interesting video. Though speaking of hilts, in David Weber's Honor Harrington series on the planet Grayson there was a traditional dueling blade that is, as far as I can recall, described as looking like a katana with either a bell grip or a basket hilt ( I can't recall which.) Possibly with the back top third sharpened as well. Would a sword like that work?
"E T phone home" but the wrong finger.
I wonder if one could make a set of rigid demi-gauntlets to cover the back of the hand and fingers of a lacrosse/red dragon style glove? Maybe something synthetic like the hard plastic they use for elbow protectors so it wouldn't cut up the grip of your sword like the edge of a metal plate.
That's a very nice arming sword, would love me one of those.
Every tried finger gauntlets with finger bucklers, that wa yyou can sort of have mitten protection when practicing longsword, then ditching the bucklers when using something with complex guard.
In unarmored combat, historically, it is the head that is most vulnerable, if ancient and medieval soldiers wear any type of protection, that would be a helmet in priority.
If we look at ancient and early medieval armor, we can see that soldiers never wear protection on the hands, and rarely on forearms. Real hand protections seems to appear in the 13th century.
That really puzzled me for a time and I realized that the context was really different, in formation fighting, it is rare to aim for the hands, touching vital areas of the opponent is what's matters the most. But in reality, the hand was not totally unprotected, because soldiers were equiped with shields, which can accompany the hand while striking.
In a sword fight. I would aim for the hands and arms. Disable the opponent.
Best target if people don't guard them. If someone doesn't have fingers they can't hold a sword.
Do you have a video of hand sniping techniques? I remember sparring with someone who was exceptionally skilled at it and I was hoping to learn.
I know that pain. I was sparring with someone who was taught to aim for the opponents sword. I did a feint, and they came for it, as I changed to my actual attack, they missed the blade and caught me across the hand, right between 2 fingers. Since we were using wooden practice swords, it was a good thwack.
I am waiting for your response to Shad's video about 5' engagement. He seems to think 10' is better for a sword
Just always do videos around this time with the glaring sunlight but wear some cool sunglasses for epic gamer vibes
I have instinctively done that since the first time I picked up a safer sword at my local renaissance festival. Dodge and strike the hand/arm. Followed by a blow to the body, head or leg.
I'd be curious to know how much historical evidence there is about attacking the hands. Sure it's a concern when fighting but I feel if it was a huge deal the change in hilts would have been more dramatic.
No matter how much hand protection even the most protective type of guard may offer, the wrist could be struck by almost the same movement that would strike a less protected hand. Even if one uses a gauntlet, the forearm could be struck in much the same way, same for the elbow, if one uses a vambrace. It is always a better idea to protect one's hand through movement of the hand and one's blade: after all, although the hand is the target closest to one's opponent, it is also the fastest moving.
That being said, in order to prevent or reduce injuries during sparring, especially to the delicate bones of the wrists and fingers, the use of gauntlets could have been widespread.
There is a bit of an inverse relationship between armor/shield and complex hand protection in sword fighting. The swords with the most hand protection were ones that were meant to be used with less/minimal armor and no shield, either because they were civilian defense weapons (rapier, small sword), or they were used in an era when heavy armor was falling out of style (Sabre, cutlass, most basket hilted swords). Most swords that didn't have as much hand protection were the ones used in the days of plate armor and/or shield use, like the arming sword, migration/"viking" swords, longsword, falchion, and even ancient world swords.
Hand hits on the hilt is WAY worse than you think because not only is it trapped, it is generally speaking moving forwards as it is snipped so you have momentum AND crushing shopping action.
That said, I do notice that hand hits in cut and thrust or heavy rapier in SCA seems to happens a LOT less than HEMA clubs. And when I spar SCA folks, sniping hands is hard...but I find it quite easy in HEMA groups. This could be because of the rules of the spar. In HEMA, a hand hit is worth small number of points generally speaking. In the SCA, you lose the use of the entire arm...with both hands getting hit resulting in a loss. So the HEMA, hands are not valuable targets while the SCA, they are. Also hand hits even with the lighter calibrations hurts a LOT more in the SCA with leather gloves. I have gotten a LOT better at being aware of hand protection. One thing that really helps is not doing anything committed unless you are in a bind first so you know what their blade is doing. Something hard to do in HEMA gloves, but can do in leather ones is when the snipe at your hand, let go of the hand they are targeting, let it hit your hilt and than trap or grab their sword. I don't disagree that hands are a good target to aim for...but from the safety of a bind, I find forearms more tempting personally.
My friends and I didn't ever count hits to the hand because they were far too common and once your opponent loses both hands, it's no fun finishing them off
That’s the Kingston Arms Sidesword trainer, right? Been eyeing both the blunt and the sharp, I love Sideswords and the design looks pretty decent on them.
Very good one would you tell us more about staying save i enjoy it very much
Helter-skelter! Helter-skelter! "Ooh! I got a blister on my finger!"
Wow so much learning here
I think actual gauntlets are the best solution. They were invented for hand protection;)
I know we're talking about sparring but in a combat situation armor could only take so much punishment so basket hilt would help postpone the inevitable
That's a very beautiful longsword. Where did you get it?
Funny you should release this video now.
On Monday I was sabre sparring Thomas, and took a nasty hit on the index finger that has me out of training.
Totally my fault though. I was digging through my gear bin for my medium weight gloves and having trouble finding them (why is all HEMA gear black). I got impatient because people were waiting on me and grabbed my lacrosse gloves thinking "I'll just be careful/the D-guard will protect me."
That was a mistake.
Oh yeah, back before the days of youtube when you got websites with wmv vids and about the only books I could find are from John Clements, I got hit in the fingers even with decent guards.
Edit: But ultimately it it almost never seemed to be a purposed hit to the fingers, but a constant ongoing accident that would just crop up.
The light makes your hair and beard look beautiful.
Got it. Adding buckler to katana hilt.
It's about time to review ProGauntlet :)
my mom chopped her finger off while opening a coconut with a machete. she put it back on
That's one tough lady. Kudoes to her.
Your mother sounds like a woman not to be taken lightly
....Damn....hell of a woman...😮
Skall out here looking like a medieval Lord. Getting glutenous from all his UA-cam revinue. Love your content brother keep up the amazing work ❤️🔥
You know, if your hand gets severed at the wrist you can punch/stab someone with the fractured bone.
And you can blind them with the squirting blood
Alternatively, if you lose your fingers, you can use that like pocket sand, squirting the blood from your severed appendages to blind the enemy.
@@brianlam5847 you just blew my mind. Just remember that when you use a pocket sand attack you have to say the name of the attack as You use it.
"Pocket Sand"
@@VictorianTimeTraveler Pro tip: Keep your pocket sand in a Zip-Loc bag, not just loose in your pocket like some barbarian.
@@crazylegoman You know what, that advice just might end up saving my (or someone else's) life
I just wanna know where he got that nodachi ... it’s extremely aesthetically pleasing