In DS3 we would pray at alters and offer covenant items for rewards. I feel its already built in to Elden ring, We have the gods. We can pray at Statue of Marika at chapel of Anticipation or Statue of radagon at altus. Mogh can have its own covenant, Two Fingers, Three Fingers, Dark Moon, Giantsflame, The rot god, maybe Miqella and even morgot! invaders acting on his behalf to stop the tarnished. offering their own covenant related items, maybe being a part of their covenant would grant you bonuses while invading. This feels like a huge missed opportunity.
At launch invasions and academy duels were peak and we didnt know it Im sure colosseums will pick up with dlc drop though maybe some improvements as well hopefully
Elden Ring has caused me to feel the full spectrum of human emotion, but as you express here most intensly the feeling of anger and frustration with the sheer amount of nonsensical choices that don't align with the other souls games or common sense. That being said, the degree to which I relate to what you are saying is astronomical. Keep up the good work and I enjoyed the ending song as well.
My man, I've never engaged much with the PvP elements of Souls games, but your points are great. but more than that, your delivery is superb switching between humor and argument. Definitely subscribing. PS: I didn't expect just how much I would miss joining a coop covenant and work towards the rewards they offer; always managing to make my character feel somewhat unique.
Thanks! I think everyone got caught up in the hype, FromSoft included, about just how crazy the new world would be that a lot of the little things got lost in the shuffle. For the PVP community, and at least for myself, the covenants and PVP are their own game inside everything else going on so to have them sort of disregarded is a major loss. Not to mention just how many people have never played another Souls game and will never know what they're missing. It's tragic
@@emotionaljonxvx Agreed. I do actually think Elden Ring lived up to the hype, if not over-delivered. For someone that was in it for the the multiplayer, specifically PvP it must have been a tough thing to witness, though. I had some hope when SotE could introduce some things to the base game as well - owing to the insistence of calling it an "expansion" over the more commonly used DLC. I had hoped to see covenants (with rewarding progression) and replayability additions like NG+ changes and the ability to easily fight bosses again; perhaps by using an in-lore item to time-travel back in the bossroom or whatever. Most of all I would love for a way to reset whole legacy dungeons, or even upgrade them to their NG(x) counterpart akin to something Dark Souls 2 did. Even with it not being "the" priority for me, the way FS has implemented multiplayer into the singleplayer experience has always been such a wonderful addition to these worlds. People on their own journey popping into yours and do their thing - nefarious or not - would really tie the whole gameplay experience together. I would also say that includes singular invaders when you are on your own. I wouldn't mind some kind of matchmaking/score system that informs who gets invaded by who, how often and with what (dis)advantage the invader gets. Something like only a single heal for the invader when judged too experienced for their victim. Also, dying to an invader can get frustrating for some, so perhaps something like not losing ruins after death, or even rewards for dealing damage but ultimately losing would make these moments more engaging for everyone.
Only issue I've had with the pvp in Elden Ring is the invader player limit being only 2 instead of 3 like in DS3. Along with missing covenants/factions as well, so much so that I actually created a guide on Steam for a build people can make in the game, with even a custom covenant based on that build in the guide as well.
I could forgive every other issue if they just put the player count back to 6 in the overworld. I want 4v2 and I want 3v3. Everything else comes second for me.
@@emotionaljonxvx One of my favorite things in DS3 was fighting off solo against 3 invaders at a time, and I had always hoped that somehow Elden Ring would allow you to have like 4 or 5 at max if you had no phantoms with you. But I'm sure that'd be too crazy for most people.
What's worse is that the way matchmaking in dueling collosueums works is that the game will randomly decide who is considered the "host" vs the "invader" and which also effects the level matchmaking since invaders and hosts have different level matchmaking ranges
It's just so obtuse. It takes basically everything that makes the game hard to interact with and hyper-focuses to make sure it can't be convenient or often even useable. And it feels obvious (to me) that it's all because they wanted to spend their time elsewhere rather than taking a serious look at what they were building. It doesn't feel like we've gotten what FromSoft thinks arenas should look like, but rather what an arena would look like if it was smuggled in without the devs noticing.
Yeah, it's too difficult to get all the pieces right. Plus a lot of people just want to duel (which ain't for me). I miss the chaos of 3v3 in the forest or post-pontiff from Dark Souls 3. You could go in alone and constantly find new people as the fight progressed. It didn't require 6 people to all agree at the same time without any knowledge of the other, everything was already in progress so it was easier to match.
@@emotionaljonxvxyou wanna know something so funny about this😭 i play dsr on my switch and can always find ways to invade folks with my friends but on xbox it’s so shit, i can never consistently find folks
I agree with mostly everything you’ve said, but is it true that if someone chooses Limgrave, and I choose “any location”, I won’t be able to match with them? I played with people who set the location just for Limgrave while I put “any location”. Could it be because we used passwords?
That was entirely speculation based on my anecdotal experience. Specifically I had issues using a password and not being able to get a match like that, but I put the flash warning at that part because I couldn't actually find any external evidence. I play on PC and frankly the arena matching is so spotty that I think someone is on the other side just messing with me whenever I try to change the menu.
I've been running into a lot of chainsaw cheaters lately so I stopped pvp. It was really fun fighting against all the other builds, I remember fighting against an Archmage type back then. Now everytime I see either the pizza cutter or the Serpent Hunter I just immediately leave. Not worth wasting 5 secs getting killed.
Cheaters and hyper-meta builds have always been a sore spot in these games. Honestly, I've found it a lot more comfortable to invade at the lower levels to avoid meta-ganks and one-shot builds. Plus I find it a lot more fun to fight people trying to progress through the game and that's a lot easier to get at lower levels. FromSoft could also make it a lot less irritating to invade. No real reason to drop my runes wherever I died and no reason to need to not have a passive invasion search that doesn't interfere with playing the game.
I agree that fighting cheaters while trying to PVP makes the experience a lot worse, but i would say people pay to much attention to chainsaw when it's a glitch that is really hard to do and few people can do it, as there are glitches that are more harmful to the game and much easier to do like the regen tear glitch, wich is commonly seen in ganks. Although to do chainsaw you don't need to have Giza's wheel or shunter equipped to do it
@@SubmachineExplorer I've never actually experienced the regen tear, probably because I'm not a mage. The closest I've ever gone to a mage build is a spellsword build, pretty fun but not when I annhilate bosses.
@@apolloisnotashirt well you don't need to be a mage to actually experience it on an invasion since what the glitch does is negate all forms of elemental damage turning it into health, so if you use any form of elemental damage your build becomes almost useless
I’m just not good enough to invade anymore, I did lots of ds3 invasions and covenant stuff. But I’m elden ring I just see blasphemous blades, moonveils, and all these insanely spammy spells in trios in almost every single invasion. I just got back to trying to invade a few days ago since launch and I just can’t have fun.
Elden Ring made sure invasions are more of an uphill battle than ever before. If I had any recommendations it would be to leverage the robust item options and maybe try out lower level invasions. It's a lot more nuanced and a lot of pretty basic tools can make all the difference against more aggressive ganks. Biggest thing I try to remember is to be patient. I'm never afraid of wasting my time when I'm wasting theirs. All in all, I straight up hate invasions in Elden Ring when I compare them to Dark Souls 3, but it's the current game so I push on, and it's not without it's little pleasures. Dark Souls 3 didn't click for me at first, but after a lot of practice I found my niche.
I'm in the same boat man. I've been invading for a while with different builds, but 8 out of like 10 invasions are full on PvE 3-man squads that spam you with everything because they don't know anything else as most PvE players just google their build or go with the best weapons like Blasphemous Blade, Darkmoon Greatsword, RoB, Moonveil... it's complete cancer and most invasions are hot garbage. You can try and invade other players for an hour and at best get maybe 1 or 2 invasions where you actually stand some sort of a chance, and where you don't spawn in a very unfavorable position or open field where you can barely use the terrain. If a blue hunter is with them as well it can be 1v4, on top of the Host being able to use Rune Arcs and full potions. Also, the co-op mod is used by quite a few people so that hurts invasions as well, with less and less people playing the way ER multiplayer should function.
@@TheSyrx your just too correct it hurts, and can’t believe how many hunters are able to join these ganks squads, and there’s also no more honor anymore, no one takes a second to do little emotes, and no one bows at the end of a fight. Elden ring pvp just breaths toxicity
Big fan of this topic, hard agree on almost everything you said, except one which was player retention as a percentage. That's not something that I think is fair to compare to DS3, which in general just had a much much smaller playerbase. Player retention as a percentage goes down the larger the playerbase is, that has to do with more people trying the game because of the general hype and attention that the game is getting, and understandably bouncing off of it due to the game's overall difficulty. While I think a lot of aspects of Elden Ring's multiplayer were a big let down, I don't think we can point to DS3's retention rate and fairly compare it to Elden Ring's far larger playerbase.
For sure, it is absolutely one-dimensional circumstantial evidence with a ton of nuance. My only real point was that these games tend to not retain players when they likely could if they wanted to implement more longform play, and I just like taking shots at Elden Ring for taking away all my favorite toys.
@@emotionaljonxvx well in that I'm in complete agreement, I feel like there's a lot they could do with this multiplayer system that they clearly spent time on but just fail to capitalize on after launch
It's a serious flaw with all of these games. Usually the complaint is bad netcode, especially when people compare it against traditional fighting games that use P2P connections and don't have any issues at all. It's a system that hasn't been given attention in over a decade but hey, maybe they'll get around to it eventually. The whole thing is a matter of latency, so you should be able to adjust based on a trade or two, but it is a skill that takes time to master. It doesn't help that Elden Ring has such high punishments for mistakes with damage through the roof that you may not always get the chance to compensate for the 100-600ms delay.
@@emotionaljonxvx I just wanna note as a fighting game player. Online netcode has been pretty awful up until the pandemic, at least with AAA fighting games. They used the same kinda netcode elden ring did up until they switched to rollback netcode, and even then the ping can be an issue. Elden ring is really bad though
@@fedweezy4976 FromSoft has always trailed from a technical perspective but their artistic quality is so high that they end up getting a pass every time, which I think is how we get into these situations where an amazing game is stuck 5+ years in the past because the team put their priorities elsewhere. I really don't like that Elden Ring netcode works basically identically to Dark Souls 3. Makes it that much harder to on-board people.
@@emotionaljonxvx Japanese game companies in general are incredibly slow on adopting new technology, especially when it comes to net code (a working, open source version of rollback has existed for 13 years and only with the newest street fighter and Tekken games has the net code actually been on par with American indie fighters) so I def don't expect them to change it anytime soon.
@@fedweezy4976 That makes sense. I've always understood Japanese practices to stick with tried-and-tested before cutting edge tech, even if the tests weren't all that great. Maybe one day
It's really sad that any newcomer isnt going to get into pvp any more than teaming up on any bad red man they see. Fromsoft doesnt want them to get good anymore or engage with it it seems. Pvp has become such an after thought ive had more fun returning to ds2
I've said it a few times before in comments, but I'm just so convinced they got excited about the open world that everything else was just used as templating. They only changed things that directly applied to the new formula and left everything else untouched. They took Dark Souls 3, said "What if Open World" and then if it didn't apply to that change, it just got ported over verbatim. It's thoughtless by virtue of being essentially forgotten and it's a shame.
"Elden Ring shifted focus entirely from a dungeon crawler ARPG with secondary multiplayer, to an open world ARPG with secondary dungeon crawling and tertiary multiplayer." O O F delivering that spice within 2min of the vid, nice. I dare anyone out there to summarize ER in a shorter sentence as meaningful as that one. Top tier commentary.
It's just a bad setup. It has zero transparency so when someone randomly tries for the first time and it doesn't work, they'll bounce off assuming it can't work. A real shame that they could fix if they felt it was important.
Is it really that much worse or different compared to older souls titles? the only thing that comes to mind whats different/better is the two arena covenants from dark souls 2.
My point is more that it isn't better. Dark Souls had basically the same setup (albeit with better maps) 6 years prior. With the colosseum not being available at launch and then getting its own trailer and promo info, I had higher hopes, especially considering how lackluster the rest of the multiplayer is. For me, them essentially "phoning it in" for a game like this feels like a slap in the face. I'm sure they just wanted to focus their efforts elsewhere but I think it's important to air this sort of frustration to help people better critique the things they want to change in these games. After all, this is an on-going project/series so they will no doubt have another attempt and I want it to be as good as they can make it. That, and there is a very loud part of the player base who hates everything about PVP and wants it removed, so I'm trying hard to push for where I stand.
Can always find 1v1 duels in colosseum atleast! But hope they revamp the modes and match making so we can actually find multi player games when dlc drops
Technically, what you mention can be fixed by enable a group mode in the arena where only a group can be there without a time limit. To be fair, besides that the Colosseum is pretty great for quick dueling.
The arena definitely serves a function. I'm more arguing against the idea that it somehow addressed any of the issues present in the PVP, where all it really did was add another way to do duels and maybe if you're lucky a slightly different duel. I get a lot of people telling me if I want better PVP, I should go the arena, but obviously it doesn't work for a lot of things.
you have a soothing voice, but you got me so off guard with the ending, lol Anyway, I had much better luck with academy duels. The night I finally decided to try the coliseum with a friend, we mostly waited and half the time we had lag issues :/ ps. great ending song
The only reason I still have DS1 installed on my PC is for PvP. The PvP in Elden Ring is so disappointing, I really hope they bring some sort of covenant system in the DLC
Yea 100% agree. I tried engaging with multiplayer in this game but quickly gave up. And I'm not only talking about PvP. PvP obviously is a huge part, in DS3 I've spent countless hours dueling in fight clubs, not as much invading because it wasn't a great experience there either, although considerably better than ER. But I'm also talking about coop. I loved helping people out in DS3, through the levels, killing bosses. Or even going through the game with friends (modding 3x enemies was a BLAST) Elden Ring is absolutely not built for that, and it's disappointing.
Very well said. Multiplayer in the souls games made for some of my favorite experiences in them and while elden ring is far and away my favorite from game, the multiplayer is in desperate need of a total overhaul
I hear you. Elden Ring has been such a heartbreaker for me. I love the game for so many reasons but I've lost any incentive to play long-term how I used to. Maybe Shadow of the Erdtree can be its saving grace.
Great vid. The souls PvP community has not been vocal enough about how much of a letdown this game is in terms of multiplayer. It had so much potential.
11:15 this is incorrect. For the team modes, when you input a password, you can set it to affect "allied only". This way, you can play 2v2 or 3v3 with friends against randoms. However, the modes are dead, so it doesn't matter anyways.
So I'm not sure how it came off in the video or if I misspoke, but I did mean to specifically highlight that the opposing team cannot be randoms in the sense that they also need to be using a password. The mode is allied team only, making it function as two teams matched against each other, rather than one team and the other team made up of non-password randoms. I'm not 100% sure as I haven't done much testing myself, so it might not be true and I could have been mistaken. The no randoms on the other team has been my experience and I have read others report the same thing, but yeah if the mode wasn't dead I could have maybe done better testing. In either case, appreciate the heads up!
When I think back to Elden Ring's launch, I was excited for the initial playthrough of course. But I was also looking forward to what the future would hold for multiplayer experiences. I wanted to have stories of epic crawls through stormveil where I could show the host a secret route they hadn't seen before or great battles on horseback with me charging down a host, gambling on that I would win a jousting trade. I got none of that. Spirit summons and the lack of covenants made co-op completely unnecessary, so finding someone to summon you is rare, and when you do get summoned it's usually by someone setting up an invader gank. Invading is pointless, you are always outnumbered and usually against a gank squad, with no rewards for triumphing over that challenge. PvP duels are a meta-fest, long gone are the days of fun cosplays and wacky builds. Unfortunately, I think it's just too late for elden ring. The game has come and gone and the community has changed. Personally I've just moved on to other games and will revisit to play through the DLC a few times and then probably leave again.
I never want to judge the games in full before the DLC comes out and they have the chance to complete their vision. That said, I think it's incredibly likely that no matter how good the new content is, they have no plans to address the foundational issues with the core gameplay. Pessimistically, I worry there isn't a future for what I love most about these games. Practically, there's no other series that's even remotely close. It's a dire situation to be sure.
Elden ring is my first souls game, I wish I had found them sooner… the DS3 pvp sounds like my kind of jam… instead I’m stuck in an endless loop of invading new players who hate me, or gank squads who are camped out at the entry to placidusax and pound me into the ground before I can hit the roll button once
Elden Ring definitely dropped the ball with PVP. At the very least, you can still get into DS3 PVP, though it is obviously a little past its prime. Hopefully, they'll do better in the future.
I'll have to check it out. I'm confident a lot of people feel the same and would appreciate a more robust PVP experience if FromSoft wanted to put the work in.
Much of Elden Ring's pvp experience comes from the dishonorable sorts in previous games. Gor every PvP bro who would run ahead and get over leveled gear in DS1 and intentionally calculate it so it would never one shot a newbie and the try to teach them to PvP effectively, there were a dozen jerks who would kill low level players over and over again making the game not fun. A middle ground is needed. That's for sure. And as much as I like using the BK ultra greatsword to teach DS1 noobs how to bait and backstab and showering them with "very good" when they did it right, I also understand why it changed. In hindsight a proper refinement of the soul memory system that tracks souls SPENT rather than earned might actually help a lot. Along with adjusting levels to make sure people match on even ground. Then, eventually, just have a level where everything is unrestricted. Maybe make it NG+1 or something.
Having twinks killing people is part of the experience though. I remember my first DS1 playthrough in 2011 and every time I got invaded I said to myself "Welp, its over for me I'm going to die!" and die I did. However, one time I actually managed to fight and kill my invader and I was over the fucking moon. I had finally beaten an invader! I remember the exact place I was, in the Painted World where the locked door is just before the Phalanx looking dudes. Newer souls players will never have an experience like this because they are so babied. They get so assmad over losing some souls which really doesn't matter in the long run and I say FUCK 'EM
I definitely think there's room for both. Getting absolutely smashed by twinks sucks for the receiving player but I have always felt it fit with a lot of what the game was trying to impose. Conversely, I think playing with a more fair build can give players a real sense of challenge and be a great learning opportunity. I spent my last year or two invading in Dark Souls 3 targeting the High Wall with a build that had never left the High Wall and only used the gear within. It was honestly some of the best PVP I have ever experienced and I miss it a lot with Elden Ring having no gated starting zone. Overleveled phantoms have definitely changed the way PVP functions at lower levels but it is still my preferred playstyle, though I've never gotten any real joy from making insta-kill builds. I want to fight.
@@emotionaljonxvx You're one of the good ones. Twinks are a big reason why a lot of people I know gave up on the Dark Souls series. I don't know enough to really give a proper solution to all this but you're right. There needs to be a system put into place that is good both for the invader and invaded (invadee?). Something about being a little more strict with weapon levels and power levels and who can and cannot get invaded. Keep low level invasions in tact and all that. And then just remove all restrictions on NG+1because by then a person presumably knows how to play the game.
I'd say the biggest issue they (beyond general balancing issues) is incentive. I want people to want to be invaded as much as the invader wants to invade. To have whatever reward is present, be it an item or opportunity, to be enticing enough that when you see the "Dark Spirit "BigDumbJerk" has invaded" or whatever, you have the incentive to be just as excited as they are. Maybe not in every scenario, as I like invaders applying pressure to maintain the area's hostility, but just having some reason to want to engage in PVP even if you aren't actively seeking it.
@@emotionaljonxvx it's not really incentive for those who dont want to be invaded. It's usually a result of a twink repeatedly invading them in an area they're struggling with to the point they just cant play the game. Its immensely frustrating. If twinking can be toned way back or eliminated I think a more aggressive and fair PvP system would be good
So I put that under the end rant and tagged it speculation because that was just the case with my independent testing. I don't know 100% if that's true, but I've had essentially nothing but problems with the arena matchmaking. All of it was really just to get my point across that the system isn't transparent and there's no real way to make it work without a lot of external validation or random dumb luck.
@@emotionaljonxvx I prefer invasions to duels, but it does suck. I remember the ds3 arenas having better layouts. I wish developers would learn that que pools need as little variation as possible for reliable connectivity. Once there's few co-opers and no more duelists pvp is gonna be dead sooner than a less populated souls game. If I can mod a 10 year old game with a fraction of the player count to get instant invasions but the new flagship title takes up to 10 minutes you have seriously fucked up. But like I said, the fact that they didn't patch password phantoms 8 years ago and that it's still an issue is a testament to their lack of care about the Integrity of the pvp experience. Hell it affects the pve experience. I cant imagine being one of these guys summoning their level 700 friend that 1 shots everything. It really ruins the spirit of the game but whatever that's pve. My pvp remarks are 100 percent objective though. All I would want at a minimum is for them to fix scaling and taunters tongue. The developers should know players are going to abuse anything they can. Of course little timmy is gonna l2 spam with overleveled phantoms and turn off the tongue at 1 invader if you let him. The only reason this hasn't been truly addressed I feel like is because most of the playerbase hates invaders and they would rather the developers not fix it. They love invasions when they have an overwhelming advantage, but as soon as those phantoms are gone alt f4 is coming in hot. I don't even care about that, because we get no rewards anyway. I could write like 100 essays on this shit lol. It's been nearly a decade of garbage ass multiplayer that has more potential than any other game style out there. We suffer through latency against Chinese players on bootleg mcdonalds wifi and 3v1 gank squads just to get a taste of what should be
Something that actually pisses me off to no end is that I went so hard making a low-medium level invasion character and literally beat godfrey at level 35. Then. then that fucking piece of shit Rogier inserted his damn +8 weapon into my inventory and completely fucked my entire invasion character
The level of foresight required to make a competent low level character is staggering sometimes. I've botched more than one character carelessly upgrading
I've never even gotten to do a group coliseum fight. Plenty of duels, yea. But group fights? It almost felt like nobody was in queue - but apparently it's just nobody could find each other due to the matchmaking system being done in the most convoluted and bizarre fashion possible. And I can't help but ask: Why? If we want to go into a fully consensual pvp game mode with the idea of beating each other senseless, why is the matchmaking system so up tight and cranky? Furthermore, the coliseum arenas themselves could easily be opened up and expanded to be multi floor battle realms (with more players meaning more of it gets used to avoid people hiding to grief) with very small amounts of effort by just utilizing their natural shape and layouts (such as the seats area staring down). As much as a melee based player might dislike getting mage spammed from range, I as a mage dislike being stuck in a telephone booth fight where my tactics and options are extremely limited by the flat round arena/few seconds to get to each other.
ER the solo player experience - 10/10 ER the multiplayer experience - 2/10 The multiplayer systems couldn't be much worse than they are. Fromsoft deserves a lot more flack for how poorly designed and implemented the multiplayer is. People making excuses for them or ignoring the issue makes that less likely. We need more people bitching louder if we want the game to be better. Most upsetting thing is that there are so many obvious and easy ways to fix the multiplayer, but they don't improve it hardly at all. Just shows how little they give a shit about the multiplayer aspect of their games. Damn shame, we deserve better. With an in depth and well implemented multiplayer system, ER could be one of the most popular PvP games. Taunters tongue is garbage and should have been fixed for solo hosts who want occasional invasion years ago. 3v1s are idiotic and cancer. Open world invasions are a waste of time. Constant invisible walls in co-op and invasions. There's no ranked ladder or meaningful progression or unique rewards associated with any form of multiplayer. Phantom hits still apply status effects. The arena is bland and the matchmaking system is terrible. The worst part is how fixable it all is, if they just gave a shit or had a clue on how their own multiplayer functions.
I am a strong believer in critiquing the things you love and I agree FromSoft is a lot more likely to respond if their fans bring up legitimate concerns. I'm sure this time around they just didn't give the multiplayer the focus and attention it deserved, instead focusing on how much they wanted to do with the open world, with no real regard for how that might degrade existing systems. It's such a struggle when they're so close to having a top-tier system, but a few misses makes it damn near pointless half the time.
Checks out. It's my favorite game and I hate multiplayer anything. I have never tried pvp in Elden Ring. seems like it would only lower my opinion of the experience.
The worst part is that now that elden ring is their most popular title, they realize they dont actually need good multiplayer to win game of the year or make ludicrous money. It is possible they will just turn their back on multiplayer
That's honestly a huge motivator for me. Trying to rally the community to make sure people want and demand better multiplayer. Elden Ring has been a step in the wrong direction on so many fronts, I don't want its success to get in the way of it's quality. A lot of people couldn't care less, but so many people care a lot and I think it's paramount they have their voices heard.
@@PuraCaseus It's just a bit. I tried with every setting, but the character is only level 40 so of course it can't find a match. My point was that the system doesn't give you any feedback, so if you didn't already know which modes were popular or what level to play at, you would never find a match. I could leave the match indefinitely and it would never go, because there are so few valid options, which is essentially my big problem with it.
Theres this sad, naive little part of me that clings onto the hope that shadow of the Erdtree will have a surprise reward for us pvp enjoyers, in the form of either some kind of covenant system or a major overhaul of the arena (both of these things - covenants and an actually interesting colosseum with actual variety, including some kind of pve element, 2 things that were in fact part of the game until fairly lste in development(whether or not this wouldve opened the door to multiplayer glsdidtor type matches with co-op vs various ai enemies or incorporated pve enemies into pvp combat like a better version of the "with summons" option we were ultimately given, im not sure, but if From didnt hate us it would've). My reason for stil holding out hope over a year since we got the arena we all know and are extremely disappointed in is that theres quite a bit of evidence that the game underwent a ton of revisions quite late in development. And by revisions i mean inexplicably removing ton of content and leaving it on the operating table in order to replace it with either unfinished content that even after having the finishing touched patched in a month or nore later remained generally lower qualiry than what they swapped it in for, or nothing at all. The colosseums were either meant to be at least somewhst functional at launch, or were supoosed to be a robust addition included with the first dlc back when From was planning to do 2 dlcs, jm not sure which. Mohg, malenia, and volcano manor were sll supposed to be covenent leaders with some actual consequence to their associated side quests, as opposed to the generic lead in to fighting their assocjated demigod boss, which generally lead to a bland and even nonsensical conclusion to their quest arcs, with basically 0 impact on the wider world. As much as i love the game, i hate knowing about the game we could have had. The fsct that there were fully finished quests complete with voice lines that wouldve made the lands between feel like a dynamic, lived in world instead of somehow more lifeless than the dead world of ds1 was all the proof i needed that we are living in the worst timeline. Ive held onto hope that these quests were scrapped because From decided last minute that theyd fit better jnto the dlc, and they simply ran out of time before they could bring the base game back to being in line with the originsl vision. The trailer gives me some hope thatt at the very least we will get an improved world design for pve that, due to its tighter level design and reduced open space, will slso lend itself to an improved invasion scene.
I feel you on this one. I love the game a lot but I've had basically nothing to do since I completed my first playthrough. I've invaded a good bit and made new builds but I am just not feeling it like how I used to. I am hoping against hope that the DLC can elevate this game beyond a sidestep and to their greatest work, though I am not confident.
@@emotionaljonxvx honestly, this is probably the healthy approach lol. Worst case, I'm sure we'll get something comparable to ds3's pve for $40, although after all the time I've put into both pvp and lore hunting/theory crafting in an effort to uncover the intentions GRRM and Miyazaki had for this game, I'm Willing to risk the disappointment of having sky-high expectations that this dlc will deliver on the plot/lore side of things, as well as do something to make things up to the pvp community st least a bit. Or barring that, at least give the dlc better replay value than the base game
Liking and commenting because I always appreciate Elden Ring discourse! You do bring up good points backed up with evidence, however I disagree with you on the basis of the message you're trying to deliver with it. It's cute hearing PvP players say that Elden Ring is failing due to its invasions being unfun for invaders. My guy, it's a full price game with 23,000,000 sales. It sold 2,000,000 more copies than Dark Souls 3's (an established franchise) lifetime sales in two weeks. There are maybe 100,000 people out of tens of millions that have ever cared to invade worlds beyond completing Varre's questline. My brother in christ, the "leave a message" system is more important to the game than invading is, you can't go around saying it's essential to the game. Over each game's lifetimes, Elden Ring has a larger average playerbase by a literal order of magnitude, and Elden Ring had to deal with an over 2 year long content drought to boot! These aren't people who were playing Dark Souls 3 PvP and decided to start playing Elden Ring singleplayer. These are people who aren't interested in soulslike PvP. Because even at its best in Dark Souls 3, it's still not that good. Face the facts. The Elden Ring community as a whole did not cry out in anguish at the underwhelming PvP. We never cared about it to begin with.
Yeah, I'm not trying to message that the game is failing in a financial or critical reception field. I'm trying to communicate that it is failing a portion of its player base. I'm well aware the majority of players don't care about PVP, and that Souls games do not have the most technically proficient or balanced experience, but that's not what these videos are about. I'm trying to convince everyone to engage with these systems. I'm trying to highlight the frustrations within and how they could be better. I'm not trying to boycott the game or tell anyone what they're doing doesn't work from a financial standpoint or from the view of people who don't care about multiplayer anyway. Those factors are clear successes of the game that do not need me to tell people how they need to be fixed. I'm bringing this stuff up for myself and those like me. Everyone else who thinks the game works great as-is is doing fine. And everything I want changed has so little impact on those players that I feel the ideas merit consideration, especially considering FromSoft cared enough to include the systems in the first place. It's a complex topic with tons of different viewpoints, but obviously I don't expect people who are happy with the game to care about the faults I find. But as you've demonstrated, there is a loud group of players who specifically thinks what I'm doing is ignorant or somehow misguided, and in turn they become dismissive. tl;dr The Elden Ring community is not a monolith and I find people on one end of the debate tend to not see the other. I'm trying to bridge that gap for everyone's benefit. Thanks for the comment!
It just seems like they forgot about all the things that made it cool in previous titles because they were more focused on the new open world content. For me, who doesn't really like open world games and really likes PVP, it has been a hard two years. And I also didn't buy Armored Core, despite enjoying For Answer back in the day. I just want a different sort of game at this point in my life and I'm not as interested in deviations.
@@emotionaljonxvx what you said in the beginning of the video really hit the nail on the head, about souls games having their own pseudo-culture that has been cultivated over the years and it seems like elden ring did absolutely nothing to enhance and expand that culture and instead milked and destroyed it with one single game. the whole game felt warped and catered to newcomers that had no desire to preserve or participate in the "culture" of fromsoft games. all money motivated when it didnt have to be at all, because they still would have made all the same sales without dumbing down pretty much every system involving pvp
It is a damn shame, truly. I definitely don't want to accuse FromSoft of being money motivated, especially considering how much Elden Ring exceeded projections. I really believe that they got really fixated on all the new things they could do with an open world and the rest was sort of forgotten. I've got big hopes for Shadow of the Erdtree to fix some of this stuff, though I remain skeptical.
Literally same. I actually uninstalled Elden Ring after Armored Core came out because I don't want Fromsoft to start feeling comfortable with releasing extremely broken and buggy games, fixing them to a point where they're (arguably) functional, and moving onto the next game. Western AAA publishers do that enough and I hate it. I didn't play for a solid year and a half. I only reinstalled like 2 weeks ago. I'm honestly very disappointed in Fromsoft for releasing Elden Ring in the state they did.
My biggest disappointment, was thinking how epic being a boss in Elden Ring would be, compared to Demon's souls and Dark Souls 3 DLC..... It may not have been promised, but that seemed like such a no brainer addition to their largest game to date.
At first I thought this was another ragebait from the ds3 crowd complaining about the damage and spells and whatnot (I like those things a lot) I watched your video and turns out I agreed with everything you said Here's hoping the DLC addresses something?
I am vulnerable to rage, but I'm trying my best to be constructive and take an objective stance on as many subjective problems I have with the game. Glad to hear other people agree.
@@emotionaljonxvxthe colosseum matchmaker is some of the worst design I've ever seen. Even if you use a password for 3v3 or whatever and all 6 people have perfectly identical settings it will put some of you in different rooms I try to get my friends to que at the same time for public matches and we message each other in que if we are in the same game and we both have 1 player remaining but two different rooms Even when enough savvy about the already broken system trying to play it just won't work for whatever reason sometimes Definitely need better arenas with terrain (I'm a caster and I say this) 6 player world limits, covenants, the works Please dlc please
i personally dont know shit about souls pvp history nor have i tried elden ring pvp since launch, great video breaking down a bunch of shit id never understand myself💯
The coliseums are too abusable so many sleep grease bullgoat frog head shitters at every level. The only counter is baiting them to poke and carian ret them over and over and spam jump so you won’t be stunned long if you get slept
I'm just infinitely upset with the unrealized potential of these games. The multiplayer is what gives me more hours of fun, but the pain points of latency and bad players being able to easily gank more easily than ever. Watch vods of any pvper and see just how bad players are once their phantoms are dead. They arent even learning how to play the game anymore. They sit with password phantoms and dropped items. They havent even fixed the god damn phantom scaling or fixed people denying invader teammates. Adding back solo invasions and making tongue stay on would help make sure the game retains activity long term. But the devs seem more intent on never fixing these systems. Invasions 30 to 80 are trash because of scaling. I have to twink out of my mind to stand a chance and still get 1 shot to a single bleed proc from timmy on his level 700 that was password summoned. Colluseum could be infinitely better too. Yeeeesh
The worst thing about elden ring PVP is it's casualisation and overpowered abilities. Gone are the days of invading solo players and fighting blade to blade.
It's something I categorize as Elden Ring being High Fantasy and Dark Souls being Dark Fantasy. Not that there aren't many genres within each, just that Elden Ring is so focused on explosions and lasers to deal with the legions of enemies waging war around you, whereas in Dark Souls you were terrified there might be a skeleton around the corner. The effect on PVP is obvious and very silly. I miss just swords and the idea you might not heal after each hit.
@@BlackGeine I honestly believe it's just them focusing elsewhere every single time. They put all their efforts into lore, art, equipment, environment, etc. and the multiplayer gets barebones/no support because it's more subjective and requires attention after the game is finished, rather than just the initial development. Still incredibly frustrating and the future is seeming bleak for change
Lack of diversity in maps is definitely one of them three big open arenas with no difference between them other then aesthetic, no cover to hide behind to defend against spam, no smaller arenas for duelists creating a perverse incentive to just run away constantly when you're losing. It's no wonder alot of people just went back to the RL main gate or stormveil for dueling or like me just became a full time invader. So much potential wasted on lazy design and low creativity.
It's a tough situation for sure. I'm doing my best to just get these things out in the open for people so maybe eventually they'll see the value, but it's not looking good so far.
I think it's really a case of them getting excited about adding a bunch of new features that any old system that didn't directly relate to the new content just got ported from Dark Souls 3. It's a terrible shame
Nothing can help the pvp in this game , ER is probably the most complete in build but at the same time the less good experience online by far , especially comapred to DS3 wich is fantastic online , ER is just 100% of 1v2 or 1v3 against lost poeple who play the game coop , and dont get me started with the colosseum
11:18 Thats pretty much the issue that made a friend of mine who was interested on multiplayer to leave the game; No way for us to play together other than hosting; We tried out password coliseum and never got a match; We deleted the password and after 10 or so minutes we got a 2vs2 match ... but the game paired us in different teams :D Playing with friends is really cumbersome
I like the voluntary aspect of the online and pvp in ER, its better for me than the previous titles. In DS3 i had trouble with Pontiff, as one does, and tried to use embers. Jokes on me, invaders with endgame weapons all around. In ER i am playing as a phantom most of the time, max lv, and i hate invaders for abusing the bad net code and status effects. I gladly gank on invaders to even the odds. PvP is voluntary, after all. Invasions were annoying as a forced mechanic, ER solved that issue. If my best friend, who barely managed to get into this game, would have had to beat invaders with endgame weapons, he would have quit the game and with valid reason. Fairness needs to come first, or you will not even get new players for your desired longevity. Status effects and poke attacks remove all joy from encounters with most invaders, so i cannot find any sympathy for you guys within me. The amount of math you reds do in order to ruin some Joe's dungeon crawl session is beyond me. Edit: btw i can summon and get summoned all over the game, all day long if i so choose, no group passwords. "Not finding players at high levels" is a myth.
Status builds and pokers are toxic af no question. It's something they could certainly fix with a patch but clearly are focusing elsewhere. I'm not the sort of invader to try to insta-kill or completely shut down anyone, though I agree its a problem. I think what you're doing to counter that sort of thing is actually really within the spirit of the game. You're a protector and you're protecting your host. That's really good roleplay. The invader is, in that scenario, a bad guy who wants to kill you. The external (out of game) hostility between players is a problem that will always exist in some form but that is also in the nature of competitive play. I totally understand people who hate it, because I hated it for the longest time. It wasn't until I actually tried PVP more broadly and invading that I gained an appreciation for its role in the game. I never want new people turned away from the game because that obviously doesn't help anyone, but the solution is a lot more complex than any of us would like to believe. Either way, Elden Ring is extremely friendly to solo play and I don't begrudge that aspect. It just lost a lot of what made the other parts interesting and I'd like to see that addressed, but I promise I don't want to ruin anyone's experience.
Am ok with getting gank, if you invade you come in looking for a fight, so don‘t complain if you get jumped. Similar to how some reds might take it too serious, some coopers might do it to, doing anything not to lose to some guy, even if the guy is using a moderate setup and putting in a lot of work fighting multiple opponents. Invasions can be some of the most fun for both parties, maximizing your odds makes it less fun for both sides.
I hate that two of the maps are the exact same. Dark Souls 3, while still far from perfect, actually has a better Arena than Elden Ring. Also almost everything beside 1v1 Duels and Brawls is dead on PC. So Fromsoft wasted a bunch of time on a bunch of modes nobody is going to play anymore because of how PvP is in Elden Ring.
Yeah, it's really funny how a weak effort is actually worse than no effort sometimes. I was unimpressed with the Dark Souls 3 arenas, but I got my time out of them. With the Elden Ring colosseums, I can't be bothered unless I'm organizing matches with friends.
@@AntiCensorshipGamer Lots of people parry spam, but there's a lot more to the system than that. Parrying is for sure OP in DS3, but that's not really the part I think Elden Ring should implement.
I have no interest in co-op or PvP Elden Ring. I don't care about competition or bragging rights. I don't care if my build or internet speed is better than some random. I'm not going to chase someone around for five minutes just to get a Rune Arc. It seems pointless to fight people for no real rewards.
That's really key to what I find so frustrating about the experience. No real reason to do it other than for personal fulfillment (and there are many barriers on that front too). I want them to add meaningful reasons to participate in multiplayer and in Elden Ring it's just not there. Maybe with the DLC, who knows.
@@emotionaljonxvx Elden Ring was my first Souls game. I had no idea they put multiplayer in everything. I assume I'd feel the same about it in Dark Souls as well. My game, my story, fuck everyone else. Unless they offer actual useful items as rewards, I'm sure I'd ignore it in all the other games too. I play Elden Ring offline only, I don't even want to see Ghosts, Messages, or Bloodstains. I don't care about anyone else's gameplay. I go online to invade for Varres Quest then I go right back offline.
That's a completely fair way to approach the game and more power to you. Fun fact, you don't need online for Varre's quest. There's an NPC invasion spot in Writheblood Ruins in Altus Plateau that let's you get it done in one go (I think). I am a strong supporter of anyone who wants to play the game completely alone. It's just as valid solo as it is in multiplayer. I just think Elden Ring missed the mark with multiplayer compared to previous entries, but I'm glad people are enjoying the solo experience as much as ever.
@@emotionaljonxvx There is an NPC, but I usually just do three invasions right there at the Rose Church after I talk to him. I realize now that multiplayer, especially PvP, is really what kept Dark Souls alive and relevant long enough to get to Elden Ring, and I get why a lot of people like stuff like that, but it's just not for me. I rarely play anything online/multiplayer. I'm just excited for the expansion. I watch almost anything about Elden Ring on my feed. PvP or PvE, commentary or strategy. I wasn't trying to shit on multiplayer, just giving my outside opinion.
I don't really think all that really matters. That's just nitpicking tiny details. I think the big issue is that it's just not fun, so people aren't playing it. I quit when they brought back backstabs, killed all the fun of cool moves because cool move now equals instant death against anybody who knows what they're doing. Invasions feel like sh×t. There's nothing wrong with invading co-op or ganks. That can be fun, but when you're forced down only that path, it sucks. Sometimes, I just want to invade solo guys to role-play enemies. These builds often suck, so going up against multiple people ruins that experience. The arena is pointless. There's no reward, not even a ranking. I got gold in an hour by dying repeatedly. I go into the arena to practice for invasion. If invasions suck, then there's no point to practice in the arena. I'm not getting solo fights anyway. The world is too big. They did give the worldwide invasion, but sometimes I want to invade specific areas. The giant world spreads the population thin, added to the fact that you can't invade solo hosts, and there is no one to invade. This is even worse for the red signs as the feature is pointless with such a wide map. No covenants. This doesn't matter too much, but the ability to just throw on a ring a be summoned to an area for PvP is very cool. They could have easily made Mohg Palace or the Volcano Manor do this. The taunter tongue sucks. Using it as a solo gives you a nonstop flow of invaders. I just want to be invaded normally as I proceed through the levels like previous games. Not a flood of invaders to the point that I can't progress. Losing all your runes when you die as an invader. It's a waste of time running those down, which means no reward for invading either. There's alot more, but I can't think of it right now.
Hey, I totally agree with all that. I just wanted to highlight some specific things about why the arenas aren't a solution, because I've had a lot of people respond to previous criticisms I've made, basically all the issues you've raised, with the assumption that the Colosseum is where I should take my business. Invading is where it's at and in Elden Ring, it's pretty mid. I just wanted to give a step-by-step about how the Colosseum could actually be fun if they put some work into it, but I'd still much prefer they make adjustments to the game to make it more like Dark Souls 3 in basically every regard.
I finally got kicked out of the PvP subreddit for constantly reminding people that PvP isn't Fromsofts financial focus whenever the cacophony of complaining got the better of me. That and I'm a dick.
It's a tough line to walk for sure. I'm never crazy about the arguments for or against the PVP being a focus because it's not all that fun to debate. What's fun for me is highlighting how cool the games could be if they did some relatively minor adjustments to really give them a backend lifespan. I totally get they don't really make any more money from making the PVP better, but they're also a company that clearly is trying to make art before making a product. Money is always a part of that equation but FromSoft have always demonstrated a deep respect for their player base and their time, so if they saw the value in adding a more robust arena/PVP experience I think they could/would do it. I am also a dick about pretty much everything but I'm really trying my best to be good while loudly advocating for my wishlist pipedreams.
Don't worry, the strength community who somehow thinks magic is op in PvP, even though it's many different weapons that 2shot people with soft cap HP, is once again going to whine and cry at the devs, until they make magic more unplayable in PvP than it already is as a standalone build at meta level, and the population will die out, because instead of learning not to run head first into comet, they would rather have boring, skilless, button mashing, every hit is a trade combat.
@@Communistgunmc Yes. The community of button mashing elitists with 2shot cheese builds, that say everything is op but themselves. That strength community.
I think there's a lot of people who want to go back to the Dark Souls 1 Havel Monster / Giant Dad days. I appreciate how much work From has done with magic, even if I do find a lot of the Ashes of War to be a little much. I also do understand the need to Unga Bunga but all my real build gripes are with status effects building up through rolls.
I just want rot breath removed from the game or severely tweaked, that and pleeeeaaase they showed us proper lobbying in armored core why is elden ring stuck with whatever the fuck arena matchmaking is trying to do
I get where you're coming from but I'd sincerely recommend you give invading a shot. When I first played Dark Souls, I hated the Mean Red Man but after giving it a shot myself and learning more about the games I gained a new appreciation for just how much they have to offer. A lot of people feel like invaders are just hostile pieces of shit (some are) but their place in the structure of the game and how unique they can make a scenario is something no other game replicates.
@emotionaljonxvx don't get me wrong dark souls invading is amazing! Elden ring on the other hand just trying to play with a friend I swear almost ever second an invader comes 😭
Ganking, for all the bad rep it got, is honestly the best multiplayer I've ever experienced in a game. I've spent many, many hours on both ends of the gank and there's nothing like it.
@@emotionaljonxvx I'm more of an invader myself but yes, remember how dynamic fights were with purples, blues and Aldrich faithfuls? I agree that ER has taken a step back from that complexity.
I also invade for the majority of my playtime but I used ganking as a way to get friends who were scared of PVP to learn the ropes. But smashing ganks is something so special, I would give anything to get that chaos back. I want covenant invasion zones so badly.
In DS3 we would pray at alters and offer covenant items for rewards. I feel its already built in to Elden ring, We have the gods. We can pray at Statue of Marika at chapel of Anticipation or Statue of radagon at altus. Mogh can have its own covenant, Two Fingers, Three Fingers, Dark Moon, Giantsflame, The rot god, maybe Miqella and even morgot! invaders acting on his behalf to stop the tarnished. offering their own covenant related items, maybe being a part of their covenant would grant you bonuses while invading. This feels like a huge missed opportunity.
volcano manor is an obvious choice for a covenant, and it would involve one of my favorite things: being invaded while ascending gelmir.
At launch invasions and academy duels were peak and we didnt know it
Im sure colosseums will pick up with dlc drop though maybe some improvements as well hopefully
Too true.
As much as I hated grinding covenants for 100% in DS3 god damn do I miss not having it in ER
That end rant caught me off guard lol.
Me too, bro. Me too.
Elden Ring has caused me to feel the full spectrum of human emotion, but as you express here most intensly the feeling of anger and frustration with the sheer amount of nonsensical choices that don't align with the other souls games or common sense. That being said, the degree to which I relate to what you are saying is astronomical. Keep up the good work and I enjoyed the ending song as well.
@@robertlarson6789 Thanks, I felt the song was appropriate. The Facts by Trap Them in case UA-cam doesn't display that
Can I just say that the ending was so perfectly narrated, so emotionally on point with everything i've ever felt
I think the main takeaway we can get from this video is that the Devil designed Elden Ring PvP
The devil is a bastard man!
Keep these rants up and you’ll blow up in followers. You got the passion and voice for it 👍🏽
My man, I've never engaged much with the PvP elements of Souls games, but your points are great. but more than that, your delivery is superb switching between humor and argument. Definitely subscribing.
PS: I didn't expect just how much I would miss joining a coop covenant and work towards the rewards they offer; always managing to make my character feel somewhat unique.
Thanks! I think everyone got caught up in the hype, FromSoft included, about just how crazy the new world would be that a lot of the little things got lost in the shuffle. For the PVP community, and at least for myself, the covenants and PVP are their own game inside everything else going on so to have them sort of disregarded is a major loss.
Not to mention just how many people have never played another Souls game and will never know what they're missing. It's tragic
@@emotionaljonxvx
Agreed. I do actually think Elden Ring lived up to the hype, if not over-delivered. For someone that was in it for the the multiplayer, specifically PvP it must have been a tough thing to witness, though.
I had some hope when SotE could introduce some things to the base game as well - owing to the insistence of calling it an "expansion" over the more commonly used DLC. I had hoped to see covenants (with rewarding progression) and replayability additions like NG+ changes and the ability to easily fight bosses again; perhaps by using an in-lore item to time-travel back in the bossroom or whatever.
Most of all I would love for a way to reset whole legacy dungeons, or even upgrade them to their NG(x) counterpart akin to something Dark Souls 2 did.
Even with it not being "the" priority for me, the way FS has implemented multiplayer into the singleplayer experience has always been such a wonderful addition to these worlds. People on their own journey popping into yours and do their thing - nefarious or not - would really tie the whole gameplay experience together. I would also say that includes singular invaders when you are on your own. I wouldn't mind some kind of matchmaking/score system that informs who gets invaded by who, how often and with what (dis)advantage the invader gets. Something like only a single heal for the invader when judged too experienced for their victim. Also, dying to an invader can get frustrating for some, so perhaps something like not losing ruins after death, or even rewards for dealing damage but ultimately losing would make these moments more engaging for everyone.
Only issue I've had with the pvp in Elden Ring is the invader player limit being only 2 instead of 3 like in DS3. Along with missing covenants/factions as well, so much so that I actually created a guide on Steam for a build people can make in the game, with even a custom covenant based on that build in the guide as well.
I could forgive every other issue if they just put the player count back to 6 in the overworld. I want 4v2 and I want 3v3. Everything else comes second for me.
@@emotionaljonxvx One of my favorite things in DS3 was fighting off solo against 3 invaders at a time, and I had always hoped that somehow Elden Ring would allow you to have like 4 or 5 at max if you had no phantoms with you. But I'm sure that'd be too crazy for most people.
@@The-Black-Death I want an 8v8 Big Team battle mode and a 10v10 battleground. I want big, chaotic thunderdome-style fights. I want it all.
@@emotionaljonxvx Me personally, I'd prefer 8v8 on For Honor really.
@@The-Black-Death Never got into For Honor, but I'm extremely picky about games.
What's worse is that the way matchmaking in dueling collosueums works is that the game will randomly decide who is considered the "host" vs the "invader" and which also effects the level matchmaking since invaders and hosts have different level matchmaking ranges
It's just so obtuse. It takes basically everything that makes the game hard to interact with and hyper-focuses to make sure it can't be convenient or often even useable. And it feels obvious (to me) that it's all because they wanted to spend their time elsewhere rather than taking a serious look at what they were building. It doesn't feel like we've gotten what FromSoft thinks arenas should look like, but rather what an arena would look like if it was smuggled in without the devs noticing.
Even at meta level, 4 or 6 players pvp never occur on PlayStation for me … :(
Yeah, it's too difficult to get all the pieces right. Plus a lot of people just want to duel (which ain't for me). I miss the chaos of 3v3 in the forest or post-pontiff from Dark Souls 3. You could go in alone and constantly find new people as the fight progressed. It didn't require 6 people to all agree at the same time without any knowledge of the other, everything was already in progress so it was easier to match.
@@emotionaljonxvxyou wanna know something so funny about this😭 i play dsr on my switch and can always find ways to invade folks with my friends but on xbox it’s so shit, i can never consistently find folks
I actually had a pretty good time running DS:R on switch as well, though the A/B swap really messed with my brain.
I agree with mostly everything you’ve said, but is it true that if someone chooses Limgrave, and I choose “any location”, I won’t be able to match with them?
I played with people who set the location just for Limgrave while I put “any location”.
Could it be because we used passwords?
That was entirely speculation based on my anecdotal experience. Specifically I had issues using a password and not being able to get a match like that, but I put the flash warning at that part because I couldn't actually find any external evidence. I play on PC and frankly the arena matching is so spotty that I think someone is on the other side just messing with me whenever I try to change the menu.
It's because of the password
Subbed. Please make more of these 😂
I've been running into a lot of chainsaw cheaters lately so I stopped pvp. It was really fun fighting against all the other builds, I remember fighting against an Archmage type back then. Now everytime I see either the pizza cutter or the Serpent Hunter I just immediately leave. Not worth wasting 5 secs getting killed.
Cheaters and hyper-meta builds have always been a sore spot in these games. Honestly, I've found it a lot more comfortable to invade at the lower levels to avoid meta-ganks and one-shot builds. Plus I find it a lot more fun to fight people trying to progress through the game and that's a lot easier to get at lower levels.
FromSoft could also make it a lot less irritating to invade. No real reason to drop my runes wherever I died and no reason to need to not have a passive invasion search that doesn't interfere with playing the game.
Use Rancor Pots
I agree that fighting cheaters while trying to PVP makes the experience a lot worse, but i would say people pay to much attention to chainsaw when it's a glitch that is really hard to do and few people can do it, as there are glitches that are more harmful to the game and much easier to do like the regen tear glitch, wich is commonly seen in ganks. Although to do chainsaw you don't need to have Giza's wheel or shunter equipped to do it
@@SubmachineExplorer I've never actually experienced the regen tear, probably because I'm not a mage. The closest I've ever gone to a mage build is a spellsword build, pretty fun but not when I annhilate bosses.
@@apolloisnotashirt well you don't need to be a mage to actually experience it on an invasion since what the glitch does is negate all forms of elemental damage turning it into health, so if you use any form of elemental damage your build becomes almost useless
Spot on analysis. Thank you for this.
I’m just not good enough to invade anymore, I did lots of ds3 invasions and covenant stuff.
But I’m elden ring I just see blasphemous blades, moonveils, and all these insanely spammy spells in trios in almost every single invasion.
I just got back to trying to invade a few days ago since launch and I just can’t have fun.
Elden Ring made sure invasions are more of an uphill battle than ever before. If I had any recommendations it would be to leverage the robust item options and maybe try out lower level invasions. It's a lot more nuanced and a lot of pretty basic tools can make all the difference against more aggressive ganks. Biggest thing I try to remember is to be patient. I'm never afraid of wasting my time when I'm wasting theirs.
All in all, I straight up hate invasions in Elden Ring when I compare them to Dark Souls 3, but it's the current game so I push on, and it's not without it's little pleasures. Dark Souls 3 didn't click for me at first, but after a lot of practice I found my niche.
I'm in the same boat man. I've been invading for a while with different builds, but 8 out of like 10 invasions are full on PvE 3-man squads that spam you with everything because they don't know anything else as most PvE players just google their build or go with the best weapons like Blasphemous Blade, Darkmoon Greatsword, RoB, Moonveil... it's complete cancer and most invasions are hot garbage. You can try and invade other players for an hour and at best get maybe 1 or 2 invasions where you actually stand some sort of a chance, and where you don't spawn in a very unfavorable position or open field where you can barely use the terrain.
If a blue hunter is with them as well it can be 1v4, on top of the Host being able to use Rune Arcs and full potions.
Also, the co-op mod is used by quite a few people so that hurts invasions as well, with less and less people playing the way ER multiplayer should function.
@@TheSyrx your just too correct it hurts, and can’t believe how many hunters are able to join these ganks squads, and there’s also no more honor anymore, no one takes a second to do little emotes, and no one bows at the end of a fight.
Elden ring pvp just breaths toxicity
Duels don't give me the same adrenaline that invasions do. It just ain't the same 😔
Big fan of this topic, hard agree on almost everything you said, except one which was player retention as a percentage. That's not something that I think is fair to compare to DS3, which in general just had a much much smaller playerbase.
Player retention as a percentage goes down the larger the playerbase is, that has to do with more people trying the game because of the general hype and attention that the game is getting, and understandably bouncing off of it due to the game's overall difficulty. While I think a lot of aspects of Elden Ring's multiplayer were a big let down, I don't think we can point to DS3's retention rate and fairly compare it to Elden Ring's far larger playerbase.
For sure, it is absolutely one-dimensional circumstantial evidence with a ton of nuance. My only real point was that these games tend to not retain players when they likely could if they wanted to implement more longform play, and I just like taking shots at Elden Ring for taking away all my favorite toys.
@@emotionaljonxvx well in that I'm in complete agreement, I feel like there's a lot they could do with this multiplayer system that they clearly spent time on but just fail to capitalize on after launch
my main problem with pvp is the ping, idk why but most people i invade or duel in the colosseum are lagging so bad its unplayable.
It's a serious flaw with all of these games. Usually the complaint is bad netcode, especially when people compare it against traditional fighting games that use P2P connections and don't have any issues at all. It's a system that hasn't been given attention in over a decade but hey, maybe they'll get around to it eventually.
The whole thing is a matter of latency, so you should be able to adjust based on a trade or two, but it is a skill that takes time to master. It doesn't help that Elden Ring has such high punishments for mistakes with damage through the roof that you may not always get the chance to compensate for the 100-600ms delay.
@@emotionaljonxvx I just wanna note as a fighting game player. Online netcode has been pretty awful up until the pandemic, at least with AAA fighting games. They used the same kinda netcode elden ring did up until they switched to rollback netcode, and even then the ping can be an issue. Elden ring is really bad though
@@fedweezy4976 FromSoft has always trailed from a technical perspective but their artistic quality is so high that they end up getting a pass every time, which I think is how we get into these situations where an amazing game is stuck 5+ years in the past because the team put their priorities elsewhere. I really don't like that Elden Ring netcode works basically identically to Dark Souls 3. Makes it that much harder to on-board people.
@@emotionaljonxvx Japanese game companies in general are incredibly slow on adopting new technology, especially when it comes to net code (a working, open source version of rollback has existed for 13 years and only with the newest street fighter and Tekken games has the net code actually been on par with American indie fighters) so I def don't expect them to change it anytime soon.
@@fedweezy4976 That makes sense. I've always understood Japanese practices to stick with tried-and-tested before cutting edge tech, even if the tests weren't all that great. Maybe one day
Beautifully spoken 👏
It's really sad that any newcomer isnt going to get into pvp any more than teaming up on any bad red man they see. Fromsoft doesnt want them to get good anymore or engage with it it seems. Pvp has become such an after thought ive had more fun returning to ds2
I've said it a few times before in comments, but I'm just so convinced they got excited about the open world that everything else was just used as templating. They only changed things that directly applied to the new formula and left everything else untouched. They took Dark Souls 3, said "What if Open World" and then if it didn't apply to that change, it just got ported over verbatim. It's thoughtless by virtue of being essentially forgotten and it's a shame.
"Elden Ring shifted focus entirely from a dungeon crawler ARPG with secondary multiplayer, to an open world ARPG with secondary dungeon crawling and tertiary multiplayer."
O O F delivering that spice within 2min of the vid, nice.
I dare anyone out there to summarize ER in a shorter sentence as meaningful as that one. Top tier commentary.
I had the same last night, seems to only work for 1v1s :/
It's just a bad setup. It has zero transparency so when someone randomly tries for the first time and it doesn't work, they'll bounce off assuming it can't work. A real shame that they could fix if they felt it was important.
Is it really that much worse or different compared to older souls titles? the only thing that comes to mind whats different/better is the two arena covenants from dark souls 2.
My point is more that it isn't better. Dark Souls had basically the same setup (albeit with better maps) 6 years prior. With the colosseum not being available at launch and then getting its own trailer and promo info, I had higher hopes, especially considering how lackluster the rest of the multiplayer is. For me, them essentially "phoning it in" for a game like this feels like a slap in the face. I'm sure they just wanted to focus their efforts elsewhere but I think it's important to air this sort of frustration to help people better critique the things they want to change in these games.
After all, this is an on-going project/series so they will no doubt have another attempt and I want it to be as good as they can make it. That, and there is a very loud part of the player base who hates everything about PVP and wants it removed, so I'm trying hard to push for where I stand.
@@emotionaljonxvxi see
Can always find 1v1 duels in colosseum atleast! But hope they revamp the modes and match making so we can actually find multi player games when dlc drops
Technically, what you mention can be fixed by enable a group mode in the arena where only a group can be there without a time limit. To be fair, besides that the Colosseum is pretty great for quick dueling.
The arena definitely serves a function. I'm more arguing against the idea that it somehow addressed any of the issues present in the PVP, where all it really did was add another way to do duels and maybe if you're lucky a slightly different duel. I get a lot of people telling me if I want better PVP, I should go the arena, but obviously it doesn't work for a lot of things.
you have a soothing voice, but you got me so off guard with the ending, lol
Anyway, I had much better luck with academy duels. The night I finally decided to try the coliseum with a friend, we mostly waited and half the time we had lag issues :/
ps. great ending song
I literally just misread emotional as elden so literally elden jon
Invading in Elden Ring is my favourite video game activity period. I didn't love it in the other games.
The only reason I still have DS1 installed on my PC is for PvP. The PvP in Elden Ring is so disappointing, I really hope they bring some sort of covenant system in the DLC
I hope too, but it's not looking good from preliminary reports
Yo that Iowa joke caught me off guard. Great rambles man, keep it coming.
Yea 100% agree. I tried engaging with multiplayer in this game but quickly gave up. And I'm not only talking about PvP. PvP obviously is a huge part, in DS3 I've spent countless hours dueling in fight clubs, not as much invading because it wasn't a great experience there either, although considerably better than ER. But I'm also talking about coop. I loved helping people out in DS3, through the levels, killing bosses. Or even going through the game with friends (modding 3x enemies was a BLAST)
Elden Ring is absolutely not built for that, and it's disappointing.
Very well said. Multiplayer in the souls games made for some of my favorite experiences in them and while elden ring is far and away my favorite from game, the multiplayer is in desperate need of a total overhaul
I hear you. Elden Ring has been such a heartbreaker for me. I love the game for so many reasons but I've lost any incentive to play long-term how I used to. Maybe Shadow of the Erdtree can be its saving grace.
Great vid. The souls PvP community has not been vocal enough about how much of a letdown this game is in terms of multiplayer. It had so much potential.
11:15 this is incorrect. For the team modes, when you input a password, you can set it to affect "allied only". This way, you can play 2v2 or 3v3 with friends against randoms. However, the modes are dead, so it doesn't matter anyways.
So I'm not sure how it came off in the video or if I misspoke, but I did mean to specifically highlight that the opposing team cannot be randoms in the sense that they also need to be using a password. The mode is allied team only, making it function as two teams matched against each other, rather than one team and the other team made up of non-password randoms.
I'm not 100% sure as I haven't done much testing myself, so it might not be true and I could have been mistaken. The no randoms on the other team has been my experience and I have read others report the same thing, but yeah if the mode wasn't dead I could have maybe done better testing. In either case, appreciate the heads up!
Danm i miss the fucking covenants
When I think back to Elden Ring's launch, I was excited for the initial playthrough of course. But I was also looking forward to what the future would hold for multiplayer experiences.
I wanted to have stories of epic crawls through stormveil where I could show the host a secret route they hadn't seen before or great battles on horseback with me charging down a host, gambling on that I would win a jousting trade.
I got none of that.
Spirit summons and the lack of covenants made co-op completely unnecessary, so finding someone to summon you is rare, and when you do get summoned it's usually by someone setting up an invader gank.
Invading is pointless, you are always outnumbered and usually against a gank squad, with no rewards for triumphing over that challenge.
PvP duels are a meta-fest, long gone are the days of fun cosplays and wacky builds.
Unfortunately, I think it's just too late for elden ring. The game has come and gone and the community has changed. Personally I've just moved on to other games and will revisit to play through the DLC a few times and then probably leave again.
I never want to judge the games in full before the DLC comes out and they have the chance to complete their vision. That said, I think it's incredibly likely that no matter how good the new content is, they have no plans to address the foundational issues with the core gameplay.
Pessimistically, I worry there isn't a future for what I love most about these games. Practically, there's no other series that's even remotely close. It's a dire situation to be sure.
Elden Rings addition is that now blues have exactly no point 😂
Elden ring is my first souls game, I wish I had found them sooner… the DS3 pvp sounds like my kind of jam… instead I’m stuck in an endless loop of invading new players who hate me, or gank squads who are camped out at the entry to placidusax and pound me into the ground before I can hit the roll button once
Elden Ring definitely dropped the ball with PVP. At the very least, you can still get into DS3 PVP, though it is obviously a little past its prime. Hopefully, they'll do better in the future.
playing the game alone and taunters tongued with blues kinda is fun. its just a shame so many meta setups are not fun to go against.
I couldn't agree more. There's a video from OnlyWaifu where a lot of what you've mentioned is critiqued with some ideas on how to fix it.
I'll have to check it out. I'm confident a lot of people feel the same and would appreciate a more robust PVP experience if FromSoft wanted to put the work in.
THE DEVIL WAS INVOLVED
Much of Elden Ring's pvp experience comes from the dishonorable sorts in previous games. Gor every PvP bro who would run ahead and get over leveled gear in DS1 and intentionally calculate it so it would never one shot a newbie and the try to teach them to PvP effectively, there were a dozen jerks who would kill low level players over and over again making the game not fun.
A middle ground is needed. That's for sure. And as much as I like using the BK ultra greatsword to teach DS1 noobs how to bait and backstab and showering them with "very good" when they did it right, I also understand why it changed. In hindsight a proper refinement of the soul memory system that tracks souls SPENT rather than earned might actually help a lot. Along with adjusting levels to make sure people match on even ground. Then, eventually, just have a level where everything is unrestricted. Maybe make it NG+1 or something.
Having twinks killing people is part of the experience though. I remember my first DS1 playthrough in 2011 and every time I got invaded I said to myself "Welp, its over for me I'm going to die!" and die I did. However, one time I actually managed to fight and kill my invader and I was over the fucking moon. I had finally beaten an invader! I remember the exact place I was, in the Painted World where the locked door is just before the Phalanx looking dudes. Newer souls players will never have an experience like this because they are so babied. They get so assmad over losing some souls which really doesn't matter in the long run and I say FUCK 'EM
I definitely think there's room for both. Getting absolutely smashed by twinks sucks for the receiving player but I have always felt it fit with a lot of what the game was trying to impose. Conversely, I think playing with a more fair build can give players a real sense of challenge and be a great learning opportunity.
I spent my last year or two invading in Dark Souls 3 targeting the High Wall with a build that had never left the High Wall and only used the gear within. It was honestly some of the best PVP I have ever experienced and I miss it a lot with Elden Ring having no gated starting zone.
Overleveled phantoms have definitely changed the way PVP functions at lower levels but it is still my preferred playstyle, though I've never gotten any real joy from making insta-kill builds. I want to fight.
@@emotionaljonxvx You're one of the good ones. Twinks are a big reason why a lot of people I know gave up on the Dark Souls series. I don't know enough to really give a proper solution to all this but you're right. There needs to be a system put into place that is good both for the invader and invaded (invadee?). Something about being a little more strict with weapon levels and power levels and who can and cannot get invaded. Keep low level invasions in tact and all that. And then just remove all restrictions on NG+1because by then a person presumably knows how to play the game.
I'd say the biggest issue they (beyond general balancing issues) is incentive. I want people to want to be invaded as much as the invader wants to invade. To have whatever reward is present, be it an item or opportunity, to be enticing enough that when you see the "Dark Spirit "BigDumbJerk" has invaded" or whatever, you have the incentive to be just as excited as they are. Maybe not in every scenario, as I like invaders applying pressure to maintain the area's hostility, but just having some reason to want to engage in PVP even if you aren't actively seeking it.
@@emotionaljonxvx it's not really incentive for those who dont want to be invaded. It's usually a result of a twink repeatedly invading them in an area they're struggling with to the point they just cant play the game. Its immensely frustrating. If twinking can be toned way back or eliminated I think a more aggressive and fair PvP system would be good
I had no idea that queing for the any option was a separate option. Another multiplayer failure to add to the pile
So I put that under the end rant and tagged it speculation because that was just the case with my independent testing. I don't know 100% if that's true, but I've had essentially nothing but problems with the arena matchmaking. All of it was really just to get my point across that the system isn't transparent and there's no real way to make it work without a lot of external validation or random dumb luck.
@@emotionaljonxvx I prefer invasions to duels, but it does suck. I remember the ds3 arenas having better layouts. I wish developers would learn that que pools need as little variation as possible for reliable connectivity. Once there's few co-opers and no more duelists pvp is gonna be dead sooner than a less populated souls game. If I can mod a 10 year old game with a fraction of the player count to get instant invasions but the new flagship title takes up to 10 minutes you have seriously fucked up. But like I said, the fact that they didn't patch password phantoms 8 years ago and that it's still an issue is a testament to their lack of care about the Integrity of the pvp experience. Hell it affects the pve experience. I cant imagine being one of these guys summoning their level 700 friend that 1 shots everything. It really ruins the spirit of the game but whatever that's pve. My pvp remarks are 100 percent objective though. All I would want at a minimum is for them to fix scaling and taunters tongue. The developers should know players are going to abuse anything they can. Of course little timmy is gonna l2 spam with overleveled phantoms and turn off the tongue at 1 invader if you let him. The only reason this hasn't been truly addressed I feel like is because most of the playerbase hates invaders and they would rather the developers not fix it. They love invasions when they have an overwhelming advantage, but as soon as those phantoms are gone alt f4 is coming in hot. I don't even care about that, because we get no rewards anyway. I could write like 100 essays on this shit lol. It's been nearly a decade of garbage ass multiplayer that has more potential than any other game style out there. We suffer through latency against Chinese players on bootleg mcdonalds wifi and 3v1 gank squads just to get a taste of what should be
Something that actually pisses me off to no end is that I went so hard making a low-medium level invasion character and literally beat godfrey at level 35. Then. then that fucking piece of shit Rogier inserted his damn +8 weapon into my inventory and completely fucked my entire invasion character
The level of foresight required to make a competent low level character is staggering sometimes. I've botched more than one character carelessly upgrading
I've never even gotten to do a group coliseum fight. Plenty of duels, yea. But group fights? It almost felt like nobody was in queue - but apparently it's just nobody could find each other due to the matchmaking system being done in the most convoluted and bizarre fashion possible. And I can't help but ask: Why? If we want to go into a fully consensual pvp game mode with the idea of beating each other senseless, why is the matchmaking system so up tight and cranky? Furthermore, the coliseum arenas themselves could easily be opened up and expanded to be multi floor battle realms (with more players meaning more of it gets used to avoid people hiding to grief) with very small amounts of effort by just utilizing their natural shape and layouts (such as the seats area staring down).
As much as a melee based player might dislike getting mage spammed from range, I as a mage dislike being stuck in a telephone booth fight where my tactics and options are extremely limited by the flat round arena/few seconds to get to each other.
ER the solo player experience - 10/10
ER the multiplayer experience - 2/10
The multiplayer systems couldn't be much worse than they are. Fromsoft deserves a lot more flack for how poorly designed and implemented the multiplayer is. People making excuses for them or ignoring the issue makes that less likely. We need more people bitching louder if we want the game to be better.
Most upsetting thing is that there are so many obvious and easy ways to fix the multiplayer, but they don't improve it hardly at all. Just shows how little they give a shit about the multiplayer aspect of their games. Damn shame, we deserve better. With an in depth and well implemented multiplayer system, ER could be one of the most popular PvP games.
Taunters tongue is garbage and should have been fixed for solo hosts who want occasional invasion years ago. 3v1s are idiotic and cancer. Open world invasions are a waste of time. Constant invisible walls in co-op and invasions. There's no ranked ladder or meaningful progression or unique rewards associated with any form of multiplayer. Phantom hits still apply status effects. The arena is bland and the matchmaking system is terrible.
The worst part is how fixable it all is, if they just gave a shit or had a clue on how their own multiplayer functions.
I am a strong believer in critiquing the things you love and I agree FromSoft is a lot more likely to respond if their fans bring up legitimate concerns. I'm sure this time around they just didn't give the multiplayer the focus and attention it deserved, instead focusing on how much they wanted to do with the open world, with no real regard for how that might degrade existing systems. It's such a struggle when they're so close to having a top-tier system, but a few misses makes it damn near pointless half the time.
Checks out. It's my favorite game and I hate multiplayer anything. I have never tried pvp in Elden Ring. seems like it would only lower my opinion of the experience.
Mood 😞
ye why the f is it an option x.x
4:23 and 4:51 is fucking hilarious lmao
Open world PVP without restrictions and let chaos take the world 😂
The worst part is that now that elden ring is their most popular title, they realize they dont actually need good multiplayer to win game of the year or make ludicrous money. It is possible they will just turn their back on multiplayer
That's honestly a huge motivator for me. Trying to rally the community to make sure people want and demand better multiplayer. Elden Ring has been a step in the wrong direction on so many fronts, I don't want its success to get in the way of it's quality. A lot of people couldn't care less, but so many people care a lot and I think it's paramount they have their voices heard.
Converting back to Christianity and back is insane 😭😭😭 love the content. I’ll keep praying for covenants.
It's definitely a skill issue.... GIT GUT!
19 minutes waiting for a PvP match is wild
Oh, it went on a lot longer than that
even though 6 player games aren't popular, its mostly due to him having spirit ashes turned on.
@@PuraCaseus It's just a bit. I tried with every setting, but the character is only level 40 so of course it can't find a match. My point was that the system doesn't give you any feedback, so if you didn't already know which modes were popular or what level to play at, you would never find a match. I could leave the match indefinitely and it would never go, because there are so few valid options, which is essentially my big problem with it.
Theres this sad, naive little part of me that clings onto the hope that shadow of the Erdtree will have a surprise reward for us pvp enjoyers, in the form of either some kind of covenant system or a major overhaul of the arena (both of these things - covenants and an actually interesting colosseum with actual variety, including some kind of pve element, 2 things that were in fact part of the game until fairly lste in development(whether or not this wouldve opened the door to multiplayer glsdidtor type matches with co-op vs various ai enemies or incorporated pve enemies into pvp combat like a better version of the "with summons" option we were ultimately given, im not sure, but if From didnt hate us it would've).
My reason for stil holding out hope over a year since we got the arena we all know and are extremely disappointed in is that theres quite a bit of evidence that the game underwent a ton of revisions quite late in development. And by revisions i mean inexplicably removing ton of content and leaving it on the operating table in order to replace it with either unfinished content that even after having the finishing touched patched in a month or nore later remained generally lower qualiry than what they swapped it in for, or nothing at all.
The colosseums were either meant to be at least somewhst functional at launch, or were supoosed to be a robust addition included with the first dlc back when From was planning to do 2 dlcs, jm not sure which. Mohg, malenia, and volcano manor were sll supposed to be covenent leaders with some actual consequence to their associated side quests, as opposed to the generic lead in to fighting their assocjated demigod boss, which generally lead to a bland and even nonsensical conclusion to their quest arcs, with basically 0 impact on the wider world.
As much as i love the game, i hate knowing about the game we could have had. The fsct that there were fully finished quests complete with voice lines that wouldve made the lands between feel like a dynamic, lived in world instead of somehow more lifeless than the dead world of ds1 was all the proof i needed that we are living in the worst timeline. Ive held onto hope that these quests were scrapped because From decided last minute that theyd fit better jnto the dlc, and they simply ran out of time before they could bring the base game back to being in line with the originsl vision. The trailer gives me some hope thatt at the very least we will get an improved world design for pve that, due to its tighter level design and reduced open space, will slso lend itself to an improved invasion scene.
I feel you on this one. I love the game a lot but I've had basically nothing to do since I completed my first playthrough. I've invaded a good bit and made new builds but I am just not feeling it like how I used to. I am hoping against hope that the DLC can elevate this game beyond a sidestep and to their greatest work, though I am not confident.
@@emotionaljonxvx honestly, this is probably the healthy approach lol. Worst case, I'm sure we'll get something comparable to ds3's pve for $40, although after all the time I've put into both pvp and lore hunting/theory crafting in an effort to uncover the intentions GRRM and Miyazaki had for this game, I'm Willing to risk the disappointment of having sky-high expectations that this dlc will deliver on the plot/lore side of things, as well as do something to make things up to the pvp community st least a bit. Or barring that, at least give the dlc better replay value than the base game
Liking and commenting because I always appreciate Elden Ring discourse! You do bring up good points backed up with evidence, however I disagree with you on the basis of the message you're trying to deliver with it.
It's cute hearing PvP players say that Elden Ring is failing due to its invasions being unfun for invaders. My guy, it's a full price game with 23,000,000 sales. It sold 2,000,000 more copies than Dark Souls 3's (an established franchise) lifetime sales in two weeks. There are maybe 100,000 people out of tens of millions that have ever cared to invade worlds beyond completing Varre's questline. My brother in christ, the "leave a message" system is more important to the game than invading is, you can't go around saying it's essential to the game.
Over each game's lifetimes, Elden Ring has a larger average playerbase by a literal order of magnitude, and Elden Ring had to deal with an over 2 year long content drought to boot! These aren't people who were playing Dark Souls 3 PvP and decided to start playing Elden Ring singleplayer. These are people who aren't interested in soulslike PvP. Because even at its best in Dark Souls 3, it's still not that good.
Face the facts. The Elden Ring community as a whole did not cry out in anguish at the underwhelming PvP. We never cared about it to begin with.
Yeah, I'm not trying to message that the game is failing in a financial or critical reception field. I'm trying to communicate that it is failing a portion of its player base. I'm well aware the majority of players don't care about PVP, and that Souls games do not have the most technically proficient or balanced experience, but that's not what these videos are about.
I'm trying to convince everyone to engage with these systems. I'm trying to highlight the frustrations within and how they could be better. I'm not trying to boycott the game or tell anyone what they're doing doesn't work from a financial standpoint or from the view of people who don't care about multiplayer anyway. Those factors are clear successes of the game that do not need me to tell people how they need to be fixed.
I'm bringing this stuff up for myself and those like me. Everyone else who thinks the game works great as-is is doing fine. And everything I want changed has so little impact on those players that I feel the ideas merit consideration, especially considering FromSoft cared enough to include the systems in the first place.
It's a complex topic with tons of different viewpoints, but obviously I don't expect people who are happy with the game to care about the faults I find. But as you've demonstrated, there is a loud group of players who specifically thinks what I'm doing is ignorant or somehow misguided, and in turn they become dismissive.
tl;dr
The Elden Ring community is not a monolith and I find people on one end of the debate tend to not see the other. I'm trying to bridge that gap for everyone's benefit.
Thanks for the comment!
elden ring pvp felt like such a complete back stab from fromsoft. probably the main reason i didnt buy the new armored core
It just seems like they forgot about all the things that made it cool in previous titles because they were more focused on the new open world content. For me, who doesn't really like open world games and really likes PVP, it has been a hard two years.
And I also didn't buy Armored Core, despite enjoying For Answer back in the day. I just want a different sort of game at this point in my life and I'm not as interested in deviations.
@@emotionaljonxvx what you said in the beginning of the video really hit the nail on the head, about souls games having their own pseudo-culture that has been cultivated over the years and it seems like elden ring did absolutely nothing to enhance and expand that culture and instead milked and destroyed it with one single game. the whole game felt warped and catered to newcomers that had no desire to preserve or participate in the "culture" of fromsoft games. all money motivated when it didnt have to be at all, because they still would have made all the same sales without dumbing down pretty much every system involving pvp
It is a damn shame, truly. I definitely don't want to accuse FromSoft of being money motivated, especially considering how much Elden Ring exceeded projections. I really believe that they got really fixated on all the new things they could do with an open world and the rest was sort of forgotten. I've got big hopes for Shadow of the Erdtree to fix some of this stuff, though I remain skeptical.
Literally same. I actually uninstalled Elden Ring after Armored Core came out because I don't want Fromsoft to start feeling comfortable with releasing extremely broken and buggy games, fixing them to a point where they're (arguably) functional, and moving onto the next game. Western AAA publishers do that enough and I hate it. I didn't play for a solid year and a half. I only reinstalled like 2 weeks ago.
I'm honestly very disappointed in Fromsoft for releasing Elden Ring in the state they did.
Armored core 6 is dope tho.
My biggest disappointment, was thinking how epic being a boss in Elden Ring would be, compared to Demon's souls and Dark Souls 3 DLC.....
It may not have been promised, but that seemed like such a no brainer addition to their largest game to date.
Hopefully the DLC will bring us another such fight. Being the Old Monk or Spear of the Church was a good time and just a fun little surprise.
I figured you were trying to find a match
Ya got me
Seamos honestos si elden ring estuviera concentrado en pvp sería un pay to win con microtracciones como los otros que se centran en pvp
At first I thought this was another ragebait from the ds3 crowd complaining about the damage and spells and whatnot
(I like those things a lot)
I watched your video and turns out I agreed with everything you said
Here's hoping the DLC addresses something?
I am vulnerable to rage, but I'm trying my best to be constructive and take an objective stance on as many subjective problems I have with the game. Glad to hear other people agree.
@@emotionaljonxvxthe colosseum matchmaker is some of the worst design I've ever seen.
Even if you use a password for 3v3 or whatever and all 6 people have perfectly identical settings it will put some of you in different rooms
I try to get my friends to que at the same time for public matches and we message each other in que if we are in the same game and we both have 1 player remaining but two different rooms
Even when enough savvy about the already broken system trying to play it just won't work for whatever reason sometimes
Definitely need better arenas with terrain (I'm a caster and I say this) 6 player world limits, covenants, the works
Please dlc please
My trend? T-bag everything. Always.
Why else can we crouch?
i personally dont know shit about souls pvp history nor have i tried elden ring pvp since launch, great video breaking down a bunch of shit id never understand myself💯
Hey no problem. It's my favorite part of these games and I go out of my way to try and get people to engage with it in a fun way.
The coliseums are too abusable so many sleep grease bullgoat frog head shitters at every level. The only counter is baiting them to poke and carian ret them over and over and spam jump so you won’t be stunned long if you get slept
Well i guess is time to go back to dark souls 2
I'm just infinitely upset with the unrealized potential of these games. The multiplayer is what gives me more hours of fun, but the pain points of latency and bad players being able to easily gank more easily than ever. Watch vods of any pvper and see just how bad players are once their phantoms are dead. They arent even learning how to play the game anymore. They sit with password phantoms and dropped items. They havent even fixed the god damn phantom scaling or fixed people denying invader teammates. Adding back solo invasions and making tongue stay on would help make sure the game retains activity long term. But the devs seem more intent on never fixing these systems. Invasions 30 to 80 are trash because of scaling. I have to twink out of my mind to stand a chance and still get 1 shot to a single bleed proc from timmy on his level 700 that was password summoned. Colluseum could be infinitely better too. Yeeeesh
The worst thing about elden ring PVP is it's casualisation and overpowered abilities. Gone are the days of invading solo players and fighting blade to blade.
It's something I categorize as Elden Ring being High Fantasy and Dark Souls being Dark Fantasy. Not that there aren't many genres within each, just that Elden Ring is so focused on explosions and lasers to deal with the legions of enemies waging war around you, whereas in Dark Souls you were terrified there might be a skeleton around the corner.
The effect on PVP is obvious and very silly. I miss just swords and the idea you might not heal after each hit.
This is the only game I've seen that has absolutely no support for online. Not after a year or two but from the start. No other game comes to mind.
It is odd, but it also makes a lot of sense when you think about how FromSoft is constantly moving forward and never looking back. Art has its cost
@@emotionaljonxvx Main systematic issues from demon souls are still here. Doesn't make sense.
@@BlackGeine I honestly believe it's just them focusing elsewhere every single time. They put all their efforts into lore, art, equipment, environment, etc. and the multiplayer gets barebones/no support because it's more subjective and requires attention after the game is finished, rather than just the initial development. Still incredibly frustrating and the future is seeming bleak for change
@@emotionaljonxvx They should hire a team like how fighting games do. Can't do it themselves.
@@BlackGeine Yeah, it'd be well worth the effort considering they put in all the basics.
Lack of diversity in maps is definitely one of them three big open arenas with no difference between them other then aesthetic, no cover to hide behind to defend against spam, no smaller arenas for duelists creating a perverse incentive to just run away constantly when you're losing. It's no wonder alot of people just went back to the RL main gate or stormveil for dueling or like me just became a full time invader.
So much potential wasted on lazy design and low creativity.
Very sad and very true. I prefer invasions regardless, but a good arena could make me diversify a lot of how I play.
not only are you telling the truth, but we are not heard by the creators, the dlc will not fix it and will spoil it even more
It's a tough situation for sure. I'm doing my best to just get these things out in the open for people so maybe eventually they'll see the value, but it's not looking good so far.
I just can not fathom why wr have no covenants. It makes zero sense except elden ring was made for the caual player. The L2 crew.
I think it's really a case of them getting excited about adding a bunch of new features that any old system that didn't directly relate to the new content just got ported from Dark Souls 3. It's a terrible shame
Nothing can help the pvp in this game , ER is probably the most complete in build but at the same time the less good experience online by far , especially comapred to DS3 wich is fantastic online , ER is just 100% of 1v2 or 1v3 against lost poeple who play the game coop , and dont get me started with the colosseum
It needs a lot of work, for sure
11:18
Thats pretty much the issue that made a friend of mine who was interested on multiplayer to leave the game; No way for us to play together other than hosting; We tried out password coliseum and never got a match; We deleted the password and after 10 or so minutes we got a 2vs2 match ... but the game paired us in different teams :D Playing with friends is really cumbersome
Dark souls 2 with blue acolyte has better pvp than elden ring lol
I do really like Dark Souls 2, even if I'm terrible at it. It's so weird and charming.
I like the voluntary aspect of the online and pvp in ER, its better for me than the previous titles. In DS3 i had trouble with Pontiff, as one does, and tried to use embers. Jokes on me, invaders with endgame weapons all around. In ER i am playing as a phantom most of the time, max lv, and i hate invaders for abusing the bad net code and status effects. I gladly gank on invaders to even the odds. PvP is voluntary, after all. Invasions were annoying as a forced mechanic, ER solved that issue. If my best friend, who barely managed to get into this game, would have had to beat invaders with endgame weapons, he would have quit the game and with valid reason. Fairness needs to come first, or you will not even get new players for your desired longevity. Status effects and poke attacks remove all joy from encounters with most invaders, so i cannot find any sympathy for you guys within me. The amount of math you reds do in order to ruin some Joe's dungeon crawl session is beyond me. Edit: btw i can summon and get summoned all over the game, all day long if i so choose, no group passwords. "Not finding players at high levels" is a myth.
Status builds and pokers are toxic af no question. It's something they could certainly fix with a patch but clearly are focusing elsewhere. I'm not the sort of invader to try to insta-kill or completely shut down anyone, though I agree its a problem. I think what you're doing to counter that sort of thing is actually really within the spirit of the game. You're a protector and you're protecting your host. That's really good roleplay. The invader is, in that scenario, a bad guy who wants to kill you. The external (out of game) hostility between players is a problem that will always exist in some form but that is also in the nature of competitive play.
I totally understand people who hate it, because I hated it for the longest time. It wasn't until I actually tried PVP more broadly and invading that I gained an appreciation for its role in the game.
I never want new people turned away from the game because that obviously doesn't help anyone, but the solution is a lot more complex than any of us would like to believe. Either way, Elden Ring is extremely friendly to solo play and I don't begrudge that aspect. It just lost a lot of what made the other parts interesting and I'd like to see that addressed, but I promise I don't want to ruin anyone's experience.
Am ok with getting gank, if you invade you come in looking for a fight, so don‘t complain if you get jumped.
Similar to how some reds might take it too serious, some coopers might do it to, doing anything not to lose to some guy, even if the guy is using a moderate setup and putting in a lot of work fighting multiple opponents.
Invasions can be some of the most fun for both parties, maximizing your odds makes it less fun for both sides.
I hate that two of the maps are the exact same. Dark Souls 3, while still far from perfect, actually has a better Arena than Elden Ring. Also almost everything beside 1v1 Duels and Brawls is dead on PC. So Fromsoft wasted a bunch of time on a bunch of modes nobody is going to play anymore because of how PvP is in Elden Ring.
Yeah, it's really funny how a weak effort is actually worse than no effort sometimes. I was unimpressed with the Dark Souls 3 arenas, but I got my time out of them. With the Elden Ring colosseums, I can't be bothered unless I'm organizing matches with friends.
Dark souls 3 is literally nothing but braindead parry spam lmfao.
@@AntiCensorshipGamer Lots of people parry spam, but there's a lot more to the system than that. Parrying is for sure OP in DS3, but that's not really the part I think Elden Ring should implement.
@@AntiCensorshipGamer Yeah and Elden Ring is nothing but braindead ash spam so IDK what your point is
I have no interest in co-op or PvP Elden Ring. I don't care about competition or bragging rights. I don't care if my build or internet speed is better than some random. I'm not going to chase someone around for five minutes just to get a Rune Arc. It seems pointless to fight people for no real rewards.
That's really key to what I find so frustrating about the experience. No real reason to do it other than for personal fulfillment (and there are many barriers on that front too). I want them to add meaningful reasons to participate in multiplayer and in Elden Ring it's just not there. Maybe with the DLC, who knows.
@@emotionaljonxvx Elden Ring was my first Souls game. I had no idea they put multiplayer in everything. I assume I'd feel the same about it in Dark Souls as well. My game, my story, fuck everyone else. Unless they offer actual useful items as rewards, I'm sure I'd ignore it in all the other games too. I play Elden Ring offline only, I don't even want to see Ghosts, Messages, or Bloodstains. I don't care about anyone else's gameplay. I go online to invade for Varres Quest then I go right back offline.
That's a completely fair way to approach the game and more power to you. Fun fact, you don't need online for Varre's quest. There's an NPC invasion spot in Writheblood Ruins in Altus Plateau that let's you get it done in one go (I think). I am a strong supporter of anyone who wants to play the game completely alone. It's just as valid solo as it is in multiplayer. I just think Elden Ring missed the mark with multiplayer compared to previous entries, but I'm glad people are enjoying the solo experience as much as ever.
@@emotionaljonxvx There is an NPC, but I usually just do three invasions right there at the Rose Church after I talk to him.
I realize now that multiplayer, especially PvP, is really what kept Dark Souls alive and relevant long enough to get to Elden Ring, and I get why a lot of people like stuff like that, but it's just not for me. I rarely play anything online/multiplayer. I'm just excited for the expansion. I watch almost anything about Elden Ring on my feed. PvP or PvE, commentary or strategy. I wasn't trying to shit on multiplayer, just giving my outside opinion.
Meanwhile i fight people simply because i like to fight people
You ard not right, you are a Redditor.
*Former Redditor
Yea the invasions are boring
Try invading at lower lvls or if not 168 it gets a lot more fun.
I don't really think all that really matters. That's just nitpicking tiny details. I think the big issue is that it's just not fun, so people aren't playing it.
I quit when they brought back backstabs, killed all the fun of cool moves because cool move now equals instant death against anybody who knows what they're doing.
Invasions feel like sh×t. There's nothing wrong with invading co-op or ganks. That can be fun, but when you're forced down only that path, it sucks. Sometimes, I just want to invade solo guys to role-play enemies. These builds often suck, so going up against multiple people ruins that experience.
The arena is pointless. There's no reward, not even a ranking. I got gold in an hour by dying repeatedly. I go into the arena to practice for invasion. If invasions suck, then there's no point to practice in the arena. I'm not getting solo fights anyway.
The world is too big. They did give the worldwide invasion, but sometimes I want to invade specific areas. The giant world spreads the population thin, added to the fact that you can't invade solo hosts, and there is no one to invade. This is even worse for the red signs as the feature is pointless with such a wide map.
No covenants. This doesn't matter too much, but the ability to just throw on a ring a be summoned to an area for PvP is very cool. They could have easily made Mohg Palace or the Volcano Manor do this.
The taunter tongue sucks. Using it as a solo gives you a nonstop flow of invaders. I just want to be invaded normally as I proceed through the levels like previous games. Not a flood of invaders to the point that I can't progress.
Losing all your runes when you die as an invader. It's a waste of time running those down, which means no reward for invading either.
There's alot more, but I can't think of it right now.
Hey, I totally agree with all that. I just wanted to highlight some specific things about why the arenas aren't a solution, because I've had a lot of people respond to previous criticisms I've made, basically all the issues you've raised, with the assumption that the Colosseum is where I should take my business. Invading is where it's at and in Elden Ring, it's pretty mid. I just wanted to give a step-by-step about how the Colosseum could actually be fun if they put some work into it, but I'd still much prefer they make adjustments to the game to make it more like Dark Souls 3 in basically every regard.
I finally got kicked out of the PvP subreddit for constantly reminding people that PvP isn't Fromsofts financial focus whenever the cacophony of complaining got the better of me.
That and I'm a dick.
It's a tough line to walk for sure. I'm never crazy about the arguments for or against the PVP being a focus because it's not all that fun to debate. What's fun for me is highlighting how cool the games could be if they did some relatively minor adjustments to really give them a backend lifespan. I totally get they don't really make any more money from making the PVP better, but they're also a company that clearly is trying to make art before making a product. Money is always a part of that equation but FromSoft have always demonstrated a deep respect for their player base and their time, so if they saw the value in adding a more robust arena/PVP experience I think they could/would do it.
I am also a dick about pretty much everything but I'm really trying my best to be good while loudly advocating for my wishlist pipedreams.
Couldnt agree more. They caved to the crybaby pve only-ists, all there is to say.
Don't worry, the strength community who somehow thinks magic is op in PvP, even though it's many different weapons that 2shot people with soft cap HP, is once again going to whine and cry at the devs, until they make magic more unplayable in PvP than it already is as a standalone build at meta level, and the population will die out, because instead of learning not to run head first into comet, they would rather have boring, skilless, button mashing, every hit is a trade combat.
"the strength community" 😂😂
@@Communistgunmc Yes. The community of button mashing elitists with 2shot cheese builds, that say everything is op but themselves. That strength community.
I think there's a lot of people who want to go back to the Dark Souls 1 Havel Monster / Giant Dad days. I appreciate how much work From has done with magic, even if I do find a lot of the Ashes of War to be a little much. I also do understand the need to Unga Bunga but all my real build gripes are with status effects building up through rolls.
@@CoolGuy-pn1vm lol what level are you playing at
I just want rot breath removed from the game or severely tweaked, that and pleeeeaaase they showed us proper lobbying in armored core why is elden ring stuck with whatever the fuck arena matchmaking is trying to do
Status builds are lazy and should be nerfed in the DLC because they make the game too easy. Both in PvE and PvP.
I'd settle for having them not build up through rolled/dodged attacks. It's just such a terrible feature that can't possibly be intentional.
Cry harder
@@emotionaljonxvx this though
@@AntiCensorshipGamer what 😂
Invaders are just pathetic 😂
I get where you're coming from but I'd sincerely recommend you give invading a shot. When I first played Dark Souls, I hated the Mean Red Man but after giving it a shot myself and learning more about the games I gained a new appreciation for just how much they have to offer. A lot of people feel like invaders are just hostile pieces of shit (some are) but their place in the structure of the game and how unique they can make a scenario is something no other game replicates.
@emotionaljonxvx don't get me wrong dark souls invading is amazing! Elden ring on the other hand just trying to play with a friend I swear almost ever second an invader comes 😭
Coop carried players are pathetic. That's why i just one shot yall before you have a chance to gank me like cowards 😂
bait
@@bbyponk What are you on about?
Never thought I'd miss gank city 🥲
Ganking, for all the bad rep it got, is honestly the best multiplayer I've ever experienced in a game. I've spent many, many hours on both ends of the gank and there's nothing like it.
@@emotionaljonxvx I'm more of an invader myself but yes, remember how dynamic fights were with purples, blues and Aldrich faithfuls? I agree that ER has taken a step back from that complexity.
I also invade for the majority of my playtime but I used ganking as a way to get friends who were scared of PVP to learn the ropes. But smashing ganks is something so special, I would give anything to get that chaos back. I want covenant invasion zones so badly.