I was a Guard from 1980 until 1990. I was based at the ERD in the city and later out at Ringwood. I worked on the Taits, Harris, parcels vans, Hitachis and the Commenge sets. Being based in the city for the first 5 years I worked on every line which provided a lot of variety. I used to love the parcels vans. If you had a good Driver and got stuck into it and the Signallers gave you a good run you could get home early but sometimes you'd get stuck behind a stopper and it was a slow run home. Like others I still remember the sound of the Tait compressors and the smell of the brake dust. I also remember flicking the large switch in the drivers cab back and forth and it would create and ark you could light your cigarette with if you didn't have any matches. The Tait vans were freezing in winter but they were still better than those Hitachi sets that were like ovens in summer. At least I could open my doors but the passengers were stuck in tin box with power doors but no air con. I have very fond memories of those days, we didn't get a lot of money back then but it was still a good job.
Thanks for your interesting recollections. Nobody would know a thing about that unique cigarette lighter! Funny that you should think of Hitachis as ‘tin boxes’ as there was something about them that made me call them that. I can’t reproduce the smells, but if you like Tait sounds, you will hear some here. Best to listen with good speakers or headphones turned up loud. "Sounds Only" videos ua-cam.com/play/PLLtOIHp49XNAz2Tc2I0PZZzsUYriF7zaX.html
When all the ballast, especially approaching and in station, was caked in brown, it would have been iron filings from the Tait brake shoes. I don’t think they ever had Ferodo brakes with asbestos, you don’t see that brown any more. It is some years since any brake shoes had asbestos, and these shoes take a long time to wear away the wheels.
This brought back memories and a tear in my eyes, I drove Taits, Harris and parcels coaches in the early 80s as a young just passed out Driver. I feel so old watching this.. Great stuff, thanks for sharing.
Well I was never a train driver. Only trams. In my ‘Harris Trains Melbourne’ Video you will see Lindsay driving. He was also the driver for some of my Taits Sounds videos. He still lives down towards Frankston so quite possibly you did see him drive past.
These are wonderful shots of a bygone era, its really, really fantastic to relive and remember those very happy times in my childhood from the late 50s into the 60s, l remember so vividly l was so happy each time l would get to go on a train from pascoe vale station to the city with my mum and so loved those tait trains as l would have to get to the very front of the carriage with the window up, even if it was raining, so l could see the buffers and hook and draw couplings in action whilst my head was strained around whilst kneeling down on the seat much to all other passengers being pissed off, and boy was l really upset when one of those new blue harris sets, thank god only now and again, came to the station from broadmeadows, as l could not open the window like l could the taits and would make mum wait for the next train that hopefully would be a tait, gee whiz, what a mum, she passed away 2018 at 97 years, anyway thank you so much for sharing these fantastic film shots as with all your others, cheers.
Great story. Thanks. I know that Harris Trains were not your favourites but maybe you will appreciate them a bit more now. So you may enjoy my video “Harris Trains Melbourne”, the only comprehensive video of those trains on UA-cam.
😊👍 If you liked the Harris trains, this is the best video of them which you will find. There was a lot of Britain in them. Harris Trains Melbourne - Video with sound ua-cam.com/video/iGUrIw6ZeEc/v-deo.html
Watching this video makes one realise just how much we took for granted in those days. After seeing this, anybody with the slightest memory of the red tait trains is reaching back for a small part of a childhood lost.
How delightful. I was born in Melbourne and raised in Sandringham. As a small person I sold newspapers at Sandringham station and can still give you a decent "Herald" yell. Every sound is ingrained in my head.We caught the 'red rattlers' to Melbourne for special events, only a few that I remember like the Myer Christmas display. We moved to Queensland but I went back to Victoria for my Army apprenticeship. When we were allowed out we bussed to Frankston and boarded the red rattler to Flinders Street station and for me, a platform change to Newmarket. I eventually lived at 335 Racecourse road while training in Watsonia, which is opposite the shunting yards and very close to the train station. More noises, all of which were soporific. The red rattlers were devilishly cold and breezy. While the lamps in the (rather ornate) lights had an 'edison' screw the screw went in to the opposite direction of a normal lamp to deter thieves. This did not always work and often the empty socket often would noisily spark across the gap, scaring me for the hour or so journey. There was nowhere to pee, unless you somehow managed to open a door and pee downwind. The result was mostly disastrous unless the windows downstream were tightly closed. Mostly we had the carriages to ourselves for the long journey with the occasional companion popping on and off. Later on the blue trains came in, and they were a lot better and warmer somehow. Better seals, anyhow....but the red trains were delightful-sometimes the doors opened out. Sometimes the windows worked and you could sit with a breeze in your face, which made the summer trips bearable. The modern trains ended up quite boring-like sterile toilets-and smelled like them too. I have some train tickets scavenged from the last moments where they had the old fashioned tickets "ka-thumped" by the card date stamp...or whatever was on it....tickets please?
Thanks for all your interesting recollections. I did not know that the lamps screwed the other way. Another deterrent may have been a voltage other than 240 to deter thieves. Certainly the more modern trains, while more comfortable with air conditioning etc, otherwise lack character compared with the Reds and Blues. You made a mention of the various sounds, and in the attached link, I think you might find a sound or 2 to bring back memories. Use a good sound system or quality headphones. "Sounds Only" videos ua-cam.com/play/PLLtOIHp49XNAz2Tc2I0PZZzsUYriF7zaX.html
Classic Taits, they were Melbourne, the idle of the air compressor, whine of the traction motors and the bang of a flash over plus the smell of brake dust. Had my first cab ride from Richmond to Lilydale in a Tait and remember as a young boy riding in the guards high chair while my uncle's best mate drove. School holidays for a country boy in Melbourne, Taits and Harris rides all day everywhere and many cab rides. Wish I had a video camera back then! Thanks for the memories!
@@tressteleg1 Too old for cab rides now, not interested. I was between eight and 12 when those in Melbourne took place. Not into sterile soundless buzz boxes they call electric trains now.
Use to catch these trains home from school - Tram from Caulfield along Glenhuntly Road - then train from Elsternwick to Gardenvale / North Brighton - Reg Hunt Motors on the right before crossing Nepean Highway entering Gardenvale Station - one day while waiting at Elsternwick Station October 76 sat next to an older gentleman waiting for the train; he was eighty years of age; we got to talking, and he described to me how when he was a young boy, there was nothing but paddocks and market gardens; hence the name Gardenvale, he began to point out some of the old Quince trees that dotted the rail embankment that were planted when the area was full of market gardens - these old Quince trees can still be seen along the embankments, especially Spinks Street Gardenvale between Martin Street and North Road.
Having growing up in the 70's and 80's I still remember the Taits and the smell the brakes emitted on hot summer days. Also remember the noise they made. They were loud! I recall when the comeng started the first thing I remember was how quiet they were. It was like riding on a cloud with virtually no sound at all. Although I might be nostalgic and would like to ride a Tait one more time for everyday use I am glad train travel evolved.
WOW what memories, as a kid growing up in the 60s and 70s this is pure gold, and you finished it off with Riversdale Rd "bendy boom gates". And the milk bar on the corner of Spencer Rd and Riversdale Rd corner (behind the #70 tram). Lots of time spent there! I still "just" remember the steam freight trains when we lived just near Mont Albert station our yard backing onto the train line. Thank you for a trip down memory lane, good times as a kid.
Lucky and grateful that you filmed this when you did. Shortly after the Taits, Parcels and Harris trains all went near the same time as I recall. Thanks for making this available to us.
@@tressteleg1 Yes the Harris video is another valuable resource you have provided. Liked the seldom filmed interior in them as well. In many ways the interiors are what non fans recall the most. I have referred many people to the Harris vid when Harris related questions pop up.For others reading this and want to see the Harris vid : ua-cam.com/video/iGUrIw6ZeEc/v-deo.html Thanks again.
Loved to see the unusual preying mantis boom gates at Tooronga. I really appreciate your work, thanks for all the effort you’ve put into these. They are priceless.
Glad you like them. What amazes me is that 10 years after I started taking movies, some fans were still taking black and white photos. So what do the fans want to watch today? :-)
Oh, memories galore! I used to love sitting by the open doors in the Tait trains and standing in the open doorways in the Harris trains in summer. Can't remember if anyone ever fell out! I jumped off a Harris once, coming into Hawthorn station just a bit early and found my feet weren't running quite fast enough... Never tried that trick again. 😳
I miss the Tait trains. I could go to Ferntree Gully with the door open. Looking at the heathlands and smelling the Boronia. Now it is "air conditioned" you cannot open windows. A lot of the trip has been placed below ground level to make way for car traffic and the rest is now suburban backyards anyway. The past is gone. True. But the present isn't always better.
I know what you mean. Nevertheless a group is restoring some Taits which were not destroyed in the Newport arson attacks and hopefully will run next year when Covid is solved.
I seriously need to ask my parents if I ever rode the Tait or Harris trains. I don't recall. I remember the Hitachi and the W Class trams down St Georges Rd, and mum taking us down to the city as well as the 86. Good to see the Preston tram workshop, Preston is where I grew up and where my parents are still their actually they still live in my childhood home hehe. Will be down later this year. Oh and I just remembered dad is a sparky and was a contracted to work on some of the bogeys or trams in the Preston Worksop I believe back in early 2000's, I think it's time for a yarn see what I can find out.
Do you remember the quote from Patronius which was about reorganising for the sake of reorganising. Thus 156M was an ex-doggie used as a yard shunter for the Jolimont Workshops. It stood outside in clear view for decades and was painted in whatever corporate colour scheme. I saw it in blue with a gold stripe and in The Met days was painted green and yellow and was eventually named Patronius II. It was the same ex-doggie but in different colour schemes.
Agree with TrickyMario7654 that 14:36 is at North Williamstown Station. Perhaps you were visiting the ARHS North Williamstown Railway Museum and or the Rifle Club Hotel (behind you ) at the time. Still great footage, glad you took the time, expense and effort to both take and post this footage and many others.
thanks for the great footage its great also wonderful to see the rail coradoors and rail assets with no graffiti sprayed all over them luv your videos.
Hi, would it be possible to use some clips from this video in my future St Kilda line video which I am currently working on. I’ll give credit of course. Thank you.
@@hazptmedia Okay. The are only way I can get it to you by email. Kindly contact me by email using tressteleg(at)iCloud.com Use the normal symbol instead of (at)
platform 11 at flinders st was both sandringham and St Kilda and platform 10 was only port melbourne but the station at the end of the stop was also called sandringham, which is station pier end and the stop before that was port melbourne and before that was graham st and then furlong station ,which sometimes it would go straight through if its a express and then flinders st station, it took the train around 8 to 10 minutes to get from port melbourne to flinders st. :) thank you very much for the upload this is melbourne history and they should be running again full stop, the state government would make a mint from tickets. :)
14:36 That's actually North Williamstown station, not Royal Park. Nice video, I love all the old suburban trains and level crossing gates & signals. I wish there was sound though so I could hear the old McKenzie and Holland bells on the crossings.
I have not been ignoring you, but with a train driver friend have been trying to prove the location either way. Maybe you can help out by saying what factors indicate it is not Royal Park, and which suggests that it is North Williamstown. What makes things difficult is that scenes can change a lot in 50 years. Trees grow, and modernisations remove the old landmarks. Sound movie film was only around for a short time and even more expensive than silent film which worked out at about $12 per minute to take in today’s money. So few people had it. Practical video cameras did not exist until about 1984 by which time the Taits were nearly gone.
Well, taking a look at the clip, you'll notice that the signal box (which has since been demolished) is on the opposite side of the tracks compared to Royal Park. www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.7811816,144.9512952,3a,48.3y,102.27h,92.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdx3wsE-w0Wjb8YynfT0Njw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8578977,144.8891576,3a,45.3y,16.51h,90.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sElCNcHLZUyXOtz-h-Ob5iQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Also, the boom gates at the Royal Park crossing are on a separate pole, where as they're not at North Williamstown. www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.7811816,144.9512952,3a,48.3y,69.39h,89.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdx3wsE-w0Wjb8YynfT0Njw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8578526,144.8891374,3a,49y,26.07h,89.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGhGt7dwxqHcr2QdzztwfVA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 I'm just glad this footage even exists, considering how rare it is from the time.
Thank you for that extra info. I will pass it on to the driver. While I do recall being at Royal Park and do not recall going to North Williamstown, other film or video has proved I was somewhere but forgot. Unfortunately if you are correct, UA-cam has removed the ability to add text to an already published video.
Your welcome, I didn't point those facts at the time as I was on an iPad. I've been able to identify station locations in old footage just by looking at the nearby level crossing crossings (as hardly any of them in Melbourne look identical due to local traffic conditions). Plus, most crossings in historical footage still have the same signals today (albeit somewhat modernized). Another piece of evidence is the overhead sanction located next to the DOWN platform. It's on the eastern side at North Williamstown... www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8579582,144.8893006,3a,26.5y,345.64h,90.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ-HmUaRWlAcI-fCdpZwx-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Whereas at Royal Park, it's on the western side (and yes, I'm aware the old DOWN building burnt down in 1989). www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.7811816,144.9512952,3a,43.6y,93.35h,89.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdx3wsE-w0Wjb8YynfT0Njw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I could not get your links to work so used Google maps myself and have no doubt that you are correct. Thanks! I even managed a street view standing almost exactly where I took the movie from, and they are a match. I will add a correction note but tablet users can’t see these (stupid UA-cam) and most computer users won’t read it anyway. Anyway I am just about out of vintage Victorian traction movie and video, unfortunately. Regards, R.
Very interesting video. Reminds me of how much I hated those Tait trains, noisy, uncomfortable, freezing cold in winter and roasting hot in summer. The Harris trains were very welcome but didn't replace the Taits entirely.
@@tressteleg1 Yes, I heard it yesterday, I've watched a lot of your videos. Thanks, good memories. The train network is changing forever with all the skyrails, new stations and tunnels but its good to see it how I remember as a kid.
I think I love these trains because they are quirky looking, I have never been on one by remember seeing them at Epping in 1974, what weird looking trains I thought. Always curious why there is a front window on the right side up near the roof. Also looking at 6.23 on the video have just observed the last power car hasn't got a clerestory roof. I do love the sound of these old DC trains. When I look back at the Sydney trains I so hated them , hot and sweaty, vinyl seats and in winter they were cold. They also were very austere inside and not as homely as Tait cars. Well now they are all gone and the new trains are much better if only for air conditioning, but they lack character. I love the old diamond pantographs on trains, they hold a fascination for me.. Back in the UK most all the lines were 25KV except for the third Rail at 750 V DC, the only 1500DC line was the Manchester to Sheffield route and I regret I never got to see it.
The raised roof thing on Taits was for the guard. I suppose in early days he had to sit up there and watch that the pantographs did not get caught in the wires. Otherwise the Tait design was ancient even when the first was built. The one without the clerestory would have been built later. Even so they were building those ancient looking trains as late as 1947, I think it was.
@@tressteleg1 where are the Indians or cowboys trying to stop the train? They look like wild west trains. How nice that one is now preserved and back out running specials
There was a Tait that ran a Caulfield to Melbourne non stop about 8.12 in the morning about 1971. The train coming from Frankston. I honestly thought it was going to fall off the tracks sometimes. One morning I really was quite concerned. Thing was the doors were open too.
They could build up a fair bit of speed, even if it took quite a while. As for open doors, people knew how to remain safe in those days. And did not put their lives at the mercy of mobile phone use 😊
Before there were enough Tait motor cars available to make up six car trains with four motor cars as shown in this video, the Sandringham - St Kilda trains were run with only two motors with two driving trailers and a trailer car between each motor and driving trailer. The six car trains could be broken into two trains when required. The line is fairly flat between the two destinations so they could get away with this although acceleration was slow. As newer trains were introduced on other lines enough Tait motors gradually became available to enable the trains on this run to have two motors in each three car set and this dramatically improved acceleration. I remember one time when I was at South Yarra, a six car train with only two motors was accordingly accelerating very slowly out of the platform towards Sandringham. The driver must have been frustrated at the slow rate of acceleration and he gave it the herbs creating a great shower of red hot sparks descended from the overhead onto the top of the train while producing grinding and grating noises from the driving bogies. This method though, notably did not improve the acceleration rate at all, not even one little bit. The six car Taits with two motors were not the pioneers with this idea. I just found some old film of a swing door dog box train on the st Kilda line consisting of a standard two car set with four cars attached being a driving trailer, two ordinary cars and an M motor at the other end. The electrical equipment on the swingdoors was the same as on the Taits
Yes they must have been woefully slow with just 2 motors out of 6 per train. Sluggish performance never seemed to worry VR. I remember a ride with a DERM pulling a heavy trailer towards Seymour. What a crawl. The only time Sydney had 7 car trains was during the ? 1970s when overhauls were a long way behind and they could not scratch together enough motors for 8 car sets.
Generally, the Taits ran as seven car sets comprised of a four car set with an M at each end of the four, and three other cars attached with a third M motor on what was the front of the train when operating as a seven car train. After the peak periods on week days, three cars were shunted off trains after they stopped at Flinders Street Station and they were taken into the Jolimont yards and trains ran as four car units during the off peak. So Taken off trains were two trailer cars and an M motor car. I recon that if you happened to be in one of the three cars to be shunted off and missed the announcement you could have ended up in the Jolimont yards. In the later afternoons the announcements were- stand clear on platform (whatever) as three cars are being attached, and three cars reversed into the station and coupled to the four there waiting, This went on for goodness knows how many years and the trains were always therefore marshalled with the four cars at the North Melbourne end to allow all this to happen. Similar things happened regarding the Harris trains too. No problems those days as the underground loop was not in existence to complicate the system so the trains always faced the one direction. When the loop did come into existence, they did not run Taits through it but about then they were making up the modern trains that did, into six car sets with four motors so it did not matter which way they were facing to take three cars off. The newer cars were longer than the Tait cars. A matter of interest is that towards the end of the Tait era, eight car Taits operated in the peak periods and well packed too, on the Frankston line with only three motors but such were only used on express runs.
Yes I remember all of that removal of 3 cars at Flinders St. Coming from Sydney, it amazed me that such shenanigans would occur at the most important station. Somehow the motor towing the 2 trailers off into the yard for storage looked silly. There were names for the 3 and 4 car sections. Maybe the 4 was the Block but I forget the name for the 3. What staggers me is the continuing process of reversing the direction of trains round the loop in the middle of the day. I suppose it could be justified when Joliment yards were used for storage of train sections but not now. And at times there are no direct trains from North Melbourne to Spencer St. infuriating!
It's good to write some of these past happenings down otherwise they will be eventually forgotten. They maybe run the trains around the loop and through the popular stations in the particular direction that most people are going saving them time and miles per person in not having to take them all the way around the loop. It is amazing how they run the number of trains they do through only four tunnels. I guess that if they ran trains in both directions simultaneously to and from particular destinations, then they would have to build another four tunnels for the loop. But anyway, you have to be on your guard because they are tricky. You can easily end up somewhere you didn't expect to go.
When I was a kid, we used to play on the tracks on the Sandringham line between Prahran and Windsor. We would hide when the parcel trains came through because we thought they had police on them.
Andrej Panjkov Nice Story about the Parcels Vans! And there are still plenty of stretches of track without fences for easy access, but nobody seemed to get hurt by trains.
Always liked the red rattlers in Sydney as a boy because it said "You are in Sydney" when visiting my grandparents. Just the same for the old rattlers in Melbourne there is a character about them not these bland aluminium tubes that run around today just is not the same it gave each city a distinctive feel.
The red trains in both Sydney and Melbourne certainly both had plenty of character. While Melbourne’s were called Red Rattlers for decades, I only ever heard it during the last few red years in Sydney. The newspapers were keen on getting rid of them so used that uncomplimentary term. Fans call them Red Sets now.
Ah, the closest that Victoria ever got to Switzerland. (i.e. only electrified track) I’ve never seen those elliptical roofed parcel vans. Info on those things seems to be quite hard to come by.
The Melbourne parcel vans also had the same body style as the electric trains of the era, but in my opinion looked extremely old-fashioned even when they started running in 1919. Sydney also had parcel vans and if you have not already seen my video, here is the link. Fast Electric Parcel Vans ua-cam.com/video/oMpMIMzzRFI/v-deo.html
There is a good section on some of the parcel motors and Jolimont Workshop pilots on the wikipedia article for the swing doors en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Door_(train)#Parcel_motors_CM Quite a few of them were preserved when compared to the regular trains, as the parcel motors lasted into the 1980s and the workshop shunters until the 1990s
I was a guard on the "sparks" from 1980 to 1985, (roughly), i was outstationed at Broadmeadows, i hated the last trains of a Friday and Saturday nights, Many gangs of vandals .
I started on the trams late 1997. At that time anyway while ‘partygoers’ were out and about on those nights, they weren’t so much of a problem. Maybe the shorter vehicle and especially when there were conductors, somebody to keep an eye on them, they had to behave a little better. On trains they could easily escape attention.
That's some excellent footage there, as with other videos! Fawkner Railway station (at least what is now Platform 2) doesn't seem to have changed significantly since that was taken. Those swing gates were there until well into the 1990's, but like you said previously, the Upfield Line was not well-ridden (and consequently, no investment was made in it for years). Even now, the timetable is less frequent than most lines during peak.
You are lucky the line still exists. Around 1987 there were strong plans to convert it to light rail and take the Rt 19 trams out of Sydney Road. That stirred up a bit of a hornet’s nest! Anyway it was gradually upgraded instead in later years.
I know that, my parents (and family friends) have told me about it. They never did close it, of course and eventually they duplicated it between Merlynston to Gowrie (which was in 1998). Although there are no 3-carriage trains running anymore. They used to be common until 2004 (or so).
Just do a google search for ‘Metplan 1987’ and the sites will tell you where there are copies. Several other transport proposals are discussed in it also.
Taits were banned on the Pakenham line because it was thought they couldn’t endure the constant high speeds. However I did ride a special to Traralgon. The Tait even went into an electrified siding for photos, I forget which, Longwarry? I also travelled on a Tait around The Loop in the early days of it’s opening. Taits were banned in The Loop in case they caught fire but a few got through in the confusion of early days. Also a few years later a pair of L classes and a load of briquettes in GYs were wrongly routed through The Loop, I was told about it and didn’t see it.
That decision sounds like it was made by a Johnny-come-lately ‘engineer’ who didn’t know what he was talking about. Unfortunately I did not live in Melbourne or I would have gone on that tour.
@@tressteleg1 One tour I wanted to go on was a Commeng to Traralgon but the authorities wimped it and ran a Hitachi instead. Later a Commeng was run and they rode well at 70mph. A photo stop was made at the end of the electrified section and there was only enough wire for a single L class to run around and the 3 car Commeng sat there with one pantograph under the wire and the other two cars sticking out past the end of the wire and the panto was down.
@@darylcheshire1618 I was the Guard on the second train with passengers on it through the newly opened city loop. The first one had the pollies and the senior union guy was driving. (Terry Sheedy ??) After that we mere mortals were allowed to run trains through.
I decided to check the width of Tait trains at floor level. It was 9‘6“ or 2.9 m which was exactly the width of the New South Wales trains which travelled beyond the suburban area. That included the single deck U sets. While the Taits were certainly no wider, I think they are taller which makes them look skinnier.
@@tressteleg1 you're right about the height factor. What are those roof extensions about? I'm guessing ventilation or just a legacy of a certain style of carriage from the steam era. What ornate lighting they had. Melbourne had a more decorative style with their PT. Not a fan of the single windows on the fronts.
I suppose you mean the raised sections along the centre of the roofs. It was probably a design or relevant to the days of kerosene carriage lighting. While some early Melbourne electric trains had been built for steam hauled service, post-electrification cars for many years were still built to the same antiquated design. I guess they fall into the classification of being so ugly you can’t help but be attracted to them. Nevertheless their sounds were great.
I’d love to see some footage of electric passenger and freight on the Traralgon line from around this time period, if you have any. I’ve always been curious about it as I believe it was once the longest electrified line in the country?
You could well be right about the longest electric line in days gone, but now Queensland has more electrified track than the rest of Australia combined. Anyway as for your request, sorry but I have nothing and in fact little more of anything in Victoria. Maybe I have a little of the electric coal mine trains that once ran there. It is a disgrace that VR, V/Line or whoever de-electrified that line.
It is a shame; also the fact that the line was originally only de-electrified up until Warragul. The Pakenham line was the Warragul line up until the mid 1990s, with regular electric suburban services running (There’s footage of this on UA-cam, search ‘Warragul electric suburbans’) A second decision was then made to cut back electrification to Pakenham, for some unknown reason. I bet they’re wishing they hadn’t of done that nowadays, with all the residential developments popping up in Warragul and Drouin.
There is pressure within the NSW railways to cut the Lithgow electrification back to somewhere on top of the mountains, heavens knows why. As for Victoria, I cannot understand why especially Geelong as well as Ballarat and Bendigo are not electrified like the 3 similar lines out of Sydney. I suspect that it may be some sort of empire fight - V/Line against Metro. Sharing the existing overhead goes against their grain it seems. It makes me laugh when V/L crows about their patronage. Nearly all of this is simply outer suburban commuters. And the passengers suffer with noisy slow off the mark rail motors. Even Qld has electric all the way to Gold Coast and Gympie to the north, run as part of the City Train network.
PTV’s network development plan does have provisions for Geelong line electrification and transfer to Metro within the next 10-20 years, however the Metro Tunnel is currently priority #1. I suspect the reason V/Line isn’t more enthusiastic about electrification is simply because they don’t have any electric locomotives anymore.
I think it is more a matter of V/L not wanting to lose its most profitable (I suppose) line to Metro. Also they would run upgraded suburban type trains with toilets, locos would not come into it. Qld is the only state with electric locos and they are ONLY used for coal trains. There used to be 3900 class electrics for the north coast passenger and freight trains but these were grabbed for coal work and never given back. With the coal and other freight sold off (Aurizon) we have a 3way split. Suburban, long distance Pass, freight/coal and each is its own empire. Long distance freight desperately needed an Electric Tilt Train replacement during TT overhauls, but were stuck with with diesel locos. Presumably they could not even get back from City Trains the previous MU electrics which did the Rocky run before. Privatisation and corporatising different parts of our Railways only creates bad inflexible results.
Great footage, as a kid the Harris trains were the best, standing in the doorways on a hot summers day. Do you know when the Alemain footage is from? When I was a kid in the early 80s they still rain a two car Tait on the weekends to Camberwell and back, not sure what got used for weekdays. We'd ride it up and down on a saturday without tickets, but no-one ever bothered us. There were very few others passengers if I remember correctly 😊
I have to remember a long way back but the rail and tram crossing scenes possibly dated from my first visit to Melbourne in 1965. If not sometime over the next few years. The single car train near Camberwell was taken by an unknown cameraman, possibly around 1970. Anyway I’m pleased it brought back some memories. A video of the line as it is today as seen by the driver will appear later in the year.
The Taits were quieter than the newer Hitachis which had a metal on metal rattly sound. Someone told me the Hitachis were a rush job and poorly put together.
With Signalmen at all four Flinders St Signal Boxes the term "Willy up North" was the code for the Williamstown train through Melbourne. Just a Fun Fact
enjoyed. can't place where platform 13 was. i don't recognize the steel girder overhead. i imagine the brick building is in the jolimont yard. as i watch the grey harrises, i'm thinking why waste money painting them, they look fine, then i notice the altered roof line. it looks like a/c may have been installed. therefore they would have been good trains to catch in summer. nevertheless, the trains i preferred, summer or winter was the dog boxes. you usually had a compartment to yourselves. at 1:24, did you have chips?
Platform 13 was I think the extreme eastern end of platform 11. I don’t believe the refurbished Harris trains got air conditioning except possibly for the driver. While the rebuild was probably successful, any train or tram that is different from the vast majority of the fleet tends to be hated by most drivers. That was probably a factor in their quick disappearance. I don’t understand your reference to chips at 1:24.
it doesn't look like i remember it but i'm sure you're right about platform 13. i think for a while they may have called it 11 east. i knew the port melb line. i'm sure the quick disappearance of the harris cars had more to do with the fluffy blue asbestos in them. the worst kind. that's why they were unceremoniously dumped as fast as they could be delivered to oakleigh and clayton tips(i think it was both) the ones that remained were the few that had some other insulation in them. i don't think vr/vline/vicrail was happy about getting rid of them. they had no choice. i stand to be corrected on this. my dad drove sparks till the early 80's and he never mentioned a dislike of the 'grey ghosts'. the ones that remain in country service seem to have the same roof shape as the grey ghosts in your film. the reference to chips was about the seagulls. if the men who went to the moon had fish and chips, the seagulls would have turned up there too.
By your wording maybe your dad is not around to comment about Driver attitude towards those trains. But certainly from my time on the trams, anything different was not preferred by the majority of drivers. Us fans however liked variety. I believe that these rebuilds had all the asbestos removed but ultimately it was decided to be not worth the expense. Also Harris Trains had a variety of horsepower in different orders and the rebuilt ones had the weakest motors. This could make it a battle to stay on time. I may be able to find out more about FS platform numbering.
you seem well informed. so you're probably right about the harris cars. the reason i replied twice is coz the first reply disappeared into the ether. it hadn't appeared a couple of hours later so i rereplied. and now yt has found my first reply behind or under the desk it has been posted.
I just checked the notes from my driver friend as well as the draft version prepared for him to help me, and 13 certainly is the east end of former 11. 12 is at the east end of 10. While the destination is Flinders St, nearly always Sandy trains through worked to St Kilda, and those trains went from platform 11 which is basically gone now. What used to be Platform 1 East is now 14. Personally the way those numbers are scattered all over the place, I think that 1 East, 10 East etc made a lot more sense. The next train screens showing destinations of obscure hamlets like Waurn Ponds without any mention of Geelong are also diabolical for visitors.
I’m surprised that so there is almost no other Harris train footage on UA-cam. Not until I started posting videos some years ago did I completely realise that so few rail fans were taking movie and video as early as myself. In fact some fans were still taking black and white photographs when I was into motion. And who really wants to look at black-and-white photo today? I think an overreaction to asbestos was an important factor in the Harris cars more or less all being scrapped so quickly. And fans maybe considered that they were too modern to preserve. That happens.
I am in the middle of making a video of every single electric train that existed in Melbourne so swing door, taits, L classes, parcels and everything and now I’m only waiting on one type of train In a video. the swing door & an E class. Would you happen to have any swing door train videos
That is quite an ambitious project. I hope the viewers will appreciate the work you will be putting into it. I have published all the vintage movie and video I took. I don’t have any more. I thought I had done a playlist of all the Victorian lineside views, but it seems not. Have you found the scene of the L starting off just near Caulfield? Regarding the E class, I believe I do have some colour slides of a few of them. If they may be of interest, let me know and I will see what I have got. Have you checked out UA-cam ‘reidgck’? He was taking movie and video before me. He may even have something unpublished?
tressteleg1 thanks. Yes I have left a comment on one of his videos asking but he hasn’t got back to me & no I do not know of the L class scene at Caulfield
A mix of film from different eras. Although some may be from the date you specified. For example the swing door Dog Box trains had gone from normal service early in 1974. Some Tait's are from before the early seventies window covering of the sliding door aperture glass.
I was a Guard from 1980 until 1990. I was based at the ERD in the city and later out at Ringwood. I worked on the Taits, Harris, parcels vans, Hitachis and the Commenge sets. Being based in the city for the first 5 years I worked on every line which provided a lot of variety. I used to love the parcels vans. If you had a good Driver and got stuck into it and the Signallers gave you a good run you could get home early but sometimes you'd get stuck behind a stopper and it was a slow run home. Like others I still remember the sound of the Tait compressors and the smell of the brake dust. I also remember flicking the large switch in the drivers cab back and forth and it would create and ark you could light your cigarette with if you didn't have any matches. The Tait vans were freezing in winter but they were still better than those Hitachi sets that were like ovens in summer. At least I could open my doors but the passengers were stuck in tin box with power doors but no air con. I have very fond memories of those days, we didn't get a lot of money back then but it was still a good job.
Thanks for your interesting recollections. Nobody would know a thing about that unique cigarette lighter!
Funny that you should think of Hitachis as ‘tin boxes’ as there was something about them that made me call them that.
I can’t reproduce the smells, but if you like Tait sounds, you will hear some here. Best to listen with good speakers or headphones turned up loud.
"Sounds Only" videos
ua-cam.com/play/PLLtOIHp49XNAz2Tc2I0PZZzsUYriF7zaX.html
Unfortunately, that brake dust was most likely asbestos. That being said, I have the fondest of memories regarding the red Tait trains.
When all the ballast, especially approaching and in station, was caked in brown, it would have been iron filings from the Tait brake shoes. I don’t think they ever had Ferodo brakes with asbestos, you don’t see that brown any more. It is some years since any brake shoes had asbestos, and these shoes take a long time to wear away the wheels.
This brought back memories and a tear in my eyes, I drove Taits, Harris and parcels coaches in the early 80s as a young just passed out Driver. I feel so old watching this.. Great stuff, thanks for sharing.
That’s what my vintage videos are for - to bring back happy memories. Check out my sounds only videos if you can find them.
I used to watch you from the down side of Mordialloc Crossing - Station St. I was 4.
Well I was never a train driver. Only trams. In my ‘Harris Trains Melbourne’ Video you will see Lindsay driving. He was also the driver for some of my Taits Sounds videos. He still lives down towards Frankston so quite possibly you did see him drive past.
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These are wonderful shots of a bygone era, its really, really fantastic to relive and remember those very happy times in my childhood from the late 50s into the 60s, l remember so vividly l was so happy each time l would get to go on a train from pascoe vale station to the city with my mum and so loved those tait trains as l would have to get to the very front of the carriage with the window up, even if it was raining, so l could see the buffers and hook and draw couplings in action whilst my head was strained around whilst kneeling down on the seat much to all other passengers being pissed off, and boy was l really upset when one of those new blue harris sets, thank god only now and again, came to the station from broadmeadows, as l could not open the window like l could the taits and would make mum wait for the next train that hopefully would be a tait, gee whiz, what a mum, she passed away 2018 at 97 years, anyway thank you so much for sharing these fantastic film shots as with all your others, cheers.
Great story. Thanks. I know that Harris Trains were not your favourites but maybe you will appreciate them a bit more now. So you may enjoy my video “Harris Trains Melbourne”, the only comprehensive video of those trains on UA-cam.
What a fantastic array of memories. Thanks for sharing. Being a pom I see a lot that resembles my childhood in this video
😊👍 If you liked the Harris trains, this is the best video of them which you will find. There was a lot of Britain in them.
Harris Trains Melbourne - Video with sound
ua-cam.com/video/iGUrIw6ZeEc/v-deo.html
Remember the ad's for the Mt Buffalo Chalet on the Taits😅.
I don’t, but I wasn’t a Melbourne resident at that time. Others are sure to remember.
Watching this video makes one realise just how much we took for granted in those days. After seeing this, anybody with the slightest memory of the red tait trains is reaching back for a small part of a childhood lost.
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How delightful. I was born in Melbourne and raised in Sandringham. As a small person I sold newspapers at Sandringham station and can still give you a decent "Herald" yell. Every sound is ingrained in my head.We caught the 'red rattlers' to Melbourne for special events, only a few that I remember like the Myer Christmas display. We moved to Queensland but I went back to Victoria for my Army apprenticeship. When we were allowed out we bussed to Frankston and boarded the red rattler to Flinders Street station and for me, a platform change to Newmarket. I eventually lived at 335 Racecourse road while training in Watsonia, which is opposite the shunting yards and very close to the train station. More noises, all of which were soporific. The red rattlers were devilishly cold and breezy. While the lamps in the (rather ornate) lights had an 'edison' screw the screw went in to the opposite direction of a normal lamp to deter thieves. This did not always work and often the empty socket often would noisily spark across the gap, scaring me for the hour or so journey. There was nowhere to pee, unless you somehow managed to open a door and pee downwind. The result was mostly disastrous unless the windows downstream were tightly closed. Mostly we had the carriages to ourselves for the long journey with the occasional companion popping on and off. Later on the blue trains came in, and they were a lot better and warmer somehow. Better seals, anyhow....but the red trains were delightful-sometimes the doors opened out. Sometimes the windows worked and you could sit with a breeze in your face, which made the summer trips bearable. The modern trains ended up quite boring-like sterile toilets-and smelled like them too. I have some train tickets scavenged from the last moments where they had the old fashioned tickets "ka-thumped" by the card date stamp...or whatever was on it....tickets please?
Thanks for all your interesting recollections. I did not know that the lamps screwed the other way. Another deterrent may have been a voltage other than 240 to deter thieves. Certainly the more modern trains, while more comfortable with air conditioning etc, otherwise lack character compared with the Reds and Blues. You made a mention of the various sounds, and in the attached link, I think you might find a sound or 2 to bring back memories. Use a good sound system or quality headphones.
"Sounds Only" videos
ua-cam.com/play/PLLtOIHp49XNAz2Tc2I0PZZzsUYriF7zaX.html
@@tressteleg1 thanks Chief.
Classic Taits, they were Melbourne, the idle of the air compressor, whine of the traction motors and the bang of a flash over plus the smell of brake dust. Had my first cab ride from Richmond to Lilydale in a Tait and remember as a young boy riding in the guards high chair while my uncle's best mate drove. School holidays for a country boy in Melbourne, Taits and Harris rides all day everywhere and many cab rides. Wish I had a video camera back then! Thanks for the memories!
All gone now, including cab rides 😒
@@tressteleg1 Too old for cab rides now, not interested. I was between eight and 12 when those in Melbourne took place. Not into sterile soundless buzz boxes they call electric trains now.
Use to catch these trains home from school - Tram from Caulfield along Glenhuntly Road - then train from Elsternwick to Gardenvale / North Brighton - Reg Hunt Motors on the right before crossing Nepean Highway entering Gardenvale Station - one day while waiting at Elsternwick Station October 76 sat next to an older gentleman waiting for the train; he was eighty years of age; we got to talking, and he described to me how when he was a young boy, there was nothing but paddocks and market gardens; hence the name Gardenvale, he began to point out some of the old Quince trees that dotted the rail embankment that were planted when the area was full of market gardens - these old Quince trees can still be seen along the embankments, especially Spinks Street Gardenvale between Martin Street and North Road.
Interesting thanks 😊👍
Having growing up in the 70's and 80's I still remember the Taits and the smell the brakes emitted on hot summer days. Also remember the noise they made. They were loud!
I recall when the comeng started the first thing I remember was how quiet they were. It was like riding on a cloud with virtually no sound at all.
Although I might be nostalgic and would like to ride a Tait one more time for everyday use I am glad train travel evolved.
I can’t bring you the smells, but this is one of several videos which in fact is just Tait sounds, in this case to Sandringham.
The Taits were rather pleasant over summer with doors and windows open and the breeze flowing through.
And now the Comengs are noisy by todays standards
WOW what memories, as a kid growing up in the 60s and 70s this is pure gold, and you finished it off with Riversdale Rd "bendy boom gates". And the milk bar on the corner of Spencer Rd and Riversdale Rd corner (behind the #70 tram). Lots of time spent there! I still "just" remember the steam freight trains when we lived just near Mont Albert station our yard backing onto the train line. Thank you for a trip down memory lane, good times as a kid.
Damien Milk I’m pleased you enjoyed it so much. Have you seen my ‘Harris Trains Melbourne’ video?
@@tressteleg1 yes the Harris video led me to the Tait video. And your tram videos, Thanks again for the very fond memories of a time long gone.
Damien Milk All good, thanks! Sometimes UA-cam makes good recommendations, like this time, sometimes not.
Lucky and grateful that you filmed this when you did. Shortly after the Taits, Parcels and Harris trains all went near the same time as I recall.
Thanks for making this available to us.
Yes they all seemed to go quite suddenly. Have you seen my video on ‘Harris Trains Melbourne’?
@@tressteleg1 Yes the Harris video is another valuable resource you have provided. Liked the seldom filmed interior in them as well. In many ways the interiors are what non fans recall the most. I have referred many people to the Harris vid when Harris related questions pop up.For others reading this and want to see the Harris vid : ua-cam.com/video/iGUrIw6ZeEc/v-deo.html
Thanks again.
John D All good thanks 😊
Loved to see the unusual preying mantis boom gates at Tooronga. I really appreciate your work, thanks for all the effort you’ve put into these. They are priceless.
Glad you like them. What amazes me is that 10 years after I started taking movies, some fans were still taking black and white photos. So what do the fans want to watch today? :-)
preying mantis boom gates. what a great name for them.
Wonderful footage - takes me back!
If you have not already seen this one, you may like it:
Harris Trains Melbourne - Video with sound
ua-cam.com/video/iGUrIw6ZeEc/v-deo.html
@@tressteleg1 Thanks for that!
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Oh, memories galore!
I used to love sitting by the open doors in the Tait trains and standing in the open doorways in the Harris trains in summer. Can't remember if anyone ever fell out! I jumped off a Harris once, coming into Hawthorn station just a bit early and found my feet weren't running quite fast enough... Never tried that trick again. 😳
@bryan3550 Doors Open was also normal on the Sydney single deck electric trains. Nothing like standing right on the edge with wind whistling past
I miss the Tait trains. I could go to Ferntree Gully with the door open. Looking at the heathlands and smelling the Boronia. Now it is "air conditioned" you cannot open windows. A lot of the trip has been placed below ground level to make way for car traffic and the rest is now suburban backyards anyway. The past is gone. True. But the present isn't always better.
I know what you mean. Nevertheless a group is restoring some Taits which were not destroyed in the Newport arson attacks and hopefully will run next year when Covid is solved.
I seriously need to ask my parents if I ever rode the Tait or Harris trains. I don't recall. I remember the Hitachi and the W Class trams down St Georges Rd, and mum taking us down to the city as well as the 86. Good to see the Preston tram workshop, Preston is where I grew up and where my parents are still their actually they still live in my childhood home hehe. Will be down later this year. Oh and I just remembered dad is a sparky and was a contracted to work on some of the bogeys or trams in the Preston Worksop I believe back in early 2000's, I think it's time for a yarn see what I can find out.
Thanks. Taits were gone by Easter 1985, Harris by late 1987.
4:36 loved the days when you could hang out the doors ..strangely not many passengers fell out luckily.
No, people generally had the sense to take care at open doorways. Now the don’t have anything to consider.
Do you remember the quote from Patronius which was about reorganising for the sake of reorganising. Thus 156M was an ex-doggie used as a yard shunter for the Jolimont Workshops. It stood outside in clear view for decades and was painted in whatever corporate colour scheme. I saw it in blue with a gold stripe and in The Met days was painted green and yellow and was eventually named Patronius II.
It was the same ex-doggie but in different colour schemes.
Interesting story but as I was only an occasional visitor to Melbourne with a greater interest in trams, I can’t say I ever noticed it.
Agree with TrickyMario7654 that 14:36 is at North Williamstown Station. Perhaps you were visiting the ARHS North Williamstown Railway Museum and or the Rifle Club Hotel (behind you ) at the time. Still great footage, glad you took the time, expense and effort to both take and post this footage and many others.
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thanks for the great footage its great also wonderful to see the rail coradoors and rail assets with no graffiti sprayed all over them luv your videos.
les gaal 😊👍. Certainly less complex then.
Hi, would it be possible to use some clips from this video in my future St Kilda line video which I am currently working on. I’ll give credit of course. Thank you.
@@hazptmedia Okay. If you want to give me exact time points, I may be able to send you better quality clips than you will get off UA-cam.
@@tressteleg1Oh wow thanks man I appreciate it. I was thinking probably anything on the St Kilda line so from beginning to around 4:07 would be great.
@@hazptmedia Okay. The are only way I can get it to you by email. Kindly contact me by email using tressteleg(at)iCloud.com
Use the normal symbol instead of (at)
@@tressteleg1 Apologies for the late response, only saw this now. I will contact you.
Please let me know if you have received the email, thanks.
platform 11 at flinders st was both sandringham and St Kilda and platform 10 was only port melbourne but the station at the end of the stop was also called sandringham, which is station pier end and the stop before that was port melbourne and before that was graham st and then furlong station ,which sometimes it would go straight through if its a express and then flinders st station, it took the train around 8 to 10 minutes to get from port melbourne to flinders st. :) thank you very much for the upload this is melbourne history and they should be running again full stop, the state government would make a mint from tickets. :)
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14:36 That's actually North Williamstown station, not Royal Park.
Nice video, I love all the old suburban trains and level crossing gates & signals. I wish there was sound though so I could hear the old McKenzie and Holland bells on the crossings.
I have not been ignoring you, but with a train driver friend have been trying to prove the location either way.
Maybe you can help out by saying what factors indicate it is not Royal Park, and which suggests that it is North Williamstown. What makes things difficult is that scenes can change a lot in 50 years. Trees grow, and modernisations remove the old landmarks.
Sound movie film was only around for a short time and even more expensive than silent film which worked out at about $12 per minute to take in today’s money. So few people had it. Practical video cameras did not exist until about 1984 by which time the Taits were nearly gone.
Well, taking a look at the clip, you'll notice that the signal box (which has since been demolished) is on the opposite side of the tracks compared to Royal Park.
www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.7811816,144.9512952,3a,48.3y,102.27h,92.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdx3wsE-w0Wjb8YynfT0Njw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8578977,144.8891576,3a,45.3y,16.51h,90.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sElCNcHLZUyXOtz-h-Ob5iQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Also, the boom gates at the Royal Park crossing are on a separate pole, where as they're not at North Williamstown.
www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.7811816,144.9512952,3a,48.3y,69.39h,89.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdx3wsE-w0Wjb8YynfT0Njw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8578526,144.8891374,3a,49y,26.07h,89.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGhGt7dwxqHcr2QdzztwfVA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I'm just glad this footage even exists, considering how rare it is from the time.
Thank you for that extra info. I will pass it on to the driver. While I do recall being at Royal Park and do not recall going to North Williamstown, other film or video has proved I was somewhere but forgot. Unfortunately if you are correct, UA-cam has removed the ability to add text to an already published video.
Your welcome, I didn't point those facts at the time as I was on an iPad. I've been able to identify station locations in old footage just by looking at the nearby level crossing crossings (as hardly any of them in Melbourne look identical due to local traffic conditions). Plus, most crossings in historical footage still have the same signals today (albeit somewhat modernized).
Another piece of evidence is the overhead sanction located next to the DOWN platform. It's on the eastern side at North Williamstown...
www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.8579582,144.8893006,3a,26.5y,345.64h,90.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ-HmUaRWlAcI-fCdpZwx-A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Whereas at Royal Park, it's on the western side (and yes, I'm aware the old DOWN building burnt down in 1989).
www.google.com.au/maps/@-37.7811816,144.9512952,3a,43.6y,93.35h,89.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdx3wsE-w0Wjb8YynfT0Njw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
I could not get your links to work so used Google maps myself and have no doubt that you are correct. Thanks! I even managed a street view standing almost exactly where I took the movie from, and they are a match. I will add a correction note but tablet users can’t see these (stupid UA-cam) and most computer users won’t read it anyway. Anyway I am just about out of vintage Victorian traction movie and video, unfortunately. Regards, R.
Very interesting video. Reminds me of how much I hated those Tait trains, noisy, uncomfortable, freezing cold in winter and roasting hot in summer. The Harris trains were very welcome but didn't replace the Taits entirely.
Taits were so ugly that you had to love them. And they had real character unlike the boring equipment of today.
wonderful memories, thank you.
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@@tressteleg1 I rode the Sandy train from Elsternwick-Flinders st many times, and the Dandenong and Frankston lines.
tubester4567 😊👍. Have you heard my Sounds Only Recording on the Sandy line, made from the cab of a Tait?
@@tressteleg1 Yes, I heard it yesterday, I've watched a lot of your videos. Thanks, good memories. The train network is changing forever with all the skyrails, new stations and tunnels but its good to see it how I remember as a kid.
tubester4567 Great! I have made some playlists under different topics to make it easier to find videos on different topics. Maybe you can find these.
I think I love these trains because they are quirky looking, I have never been on one by remember seeing them at Epping in 1974, what weird looking trains I thought.
Always curious why there is a front window on the right side up near the roof.
Also looking at 6.23 on the video have just observed the last power car hasn't got a clerestory roof.
I do love the sound of these old DC trains.
When I look back at the Sydney trains I so hated them , hot and sweaty, vinyl seats and in winter they were cold.
They also were very austere inside and not as homely as Tait cars.
Well now they are all gone and the new trains are much better if only for air conditioning, but they lack character.
I love the old diamond pantographs on trains, they hold a fascination for me..
Back in the UK most all the lines were 25KV except for the third Rail at 750 V DC, the only 1500DC line was the Manchester to Sheffield route and I regret I never got to see it.
The raised roof thing on Taits was for the guard. I suppose in early days he had to sit up there and watch that the pantographs did not get caught in the wires.
Otherwise the Tait design was ancient even when the first was built. The one without the clerestory would have been built later. Even so they were building those ancient looking trains as late as 1947, I think it was.
@@tressteleg1 where are the Indians or cowboys trying to stop the train?
They look like wild west trains.
How nice that one is now preserved and back out running specials
Cowboys and Indians are US origin. This design is very strongly British, from the later 1800s.
@@tressteleg1 well the swing doors is a dead British give away and yes Clestory roofs were widely used in the UK
There was a Tait that ran a Caulfield to Melbourne non stop about 8.12 in the morning about 1971. The train coming from Frankston. I honestly thought it was going to fall off the tracks sometimes. One morning I really was quite concerned. Thing was the doors were open too.
They could build up a fair bit of speed, even if it took quite a while. As for open doors, people knew how to remain safe in those days. And did not put their lives at the mercy of mobile phone use 😊
Before there were enough Tait motor cars available to make up six car trains with four motor cars as shown in this video, the Sandringham - St Kilda trains were run with only two motors with two driving trailers and a trailer car between each motor and driving trailer. The six car trains could be broken into two trains when required. The line is fairly flat between the two destinations so they could get away with this although acceleration was slow. As newer trains were introduced on other lines enough Tait motors gradually became available to enable the trains on this run to have two motors in each three car set and this dramatically improved acceleration. I remember one time when I was at South Yarra, a six car train with only two motors was accordingly accelerating very slowly out of the platform towards Sandringham. The driver must have been frustrated at the slow rate of acceleration and he gave it the herbs creating a great shower of red hot sparks descended from the overhead onto the top of the train while producing grinding and grating noises from the driving bogies. This method though, notably did not improve the acceleration rate at all, not even one little bit. The six car Taits with two motors were not the pioneers with this idea. I just found some old film of a swing door dog box train on the st Kilda line consisting of a standard two car set with four cars attached being a driving trailer, two ordinary cars and an M motor at the other end. The electrical equipment on the swingdoors was the same as on the Taits
Yes they must have been woefully slow with just 2 motors out of 6 per train. Sluggish performance never seemed to worry VR. I remember a ride with a DERM pulling a heavy trailer towards Seymour. What a crawl.
The only time Sydney had 7 car trains was during the ? 1970s when overhauls were a long way behind and they could not scratch together enough motors for 8 car sets.
Generally, the Taits ran as seven car sets comprised of a four car set with an M at each end of the four, and three other cars attached with a third M motor on what was the front of the train when operating as a seven car train. After the peak periods on week days, three cars were shunted off trains after they stopped at Flinders Street Station and they were taken into the Jolimont yards and trains ran as four car units during the off peak. So Taken off trains were two trailer cars and an M motor car. I recon that if you happened to be in one of the three cars to be shunted off and missed the announcement you could have ended up in the Jolimont yards. In the later afternoons the announcements were- stand clear on platform (whatever) as three cars are being attached, and three cars reversed into the station and coupled to the four there waiting, This went on for goodness knows how many years and the trains were always therefore marshalled with the four cars at the North Melbourne end to allow all this to happen. Similar things happened regarding the Harris trains too. No problems those days as the underground loop was not in existence to complicate the system so the trains always faced the one direction. When the loop did come into existence, they did not run Taits through it but about then they were making up the modern trains that did, into six car sets with four motors so it did not matter which way they were facing to take three cars off. The newer cars were longer than the Tait cars. A matter of interest is that towards the end of the Tait era, eight car Taits operated in the peak periods and well packed too, on the Frankston line with only three motors but such were only used on express runs.
Yes I remember all of that removal of 3 cars at Flinders St. Coming from Sydney, it amazed me that such shenanigans would occur at the most important station. Somehow the motor towing the 2 trailers off into the yard for storage looked silly.
There were names for the 3 and 4 car sections. Maybe the 4 was the Block but I forget the name for the 3.
What staggers me is the continuing process of reversing the direction of trains round the loop in the middle of the day. I suppose it could be justified when Joliment yards were used for storage of train sections but not now. And at times there are no direct trains from North Melbourne to Spencer St. infuriating!
It's good to write some of these past happenings down otherwise they will be eventually forgotten. They maybe run the trains around the loop and through the popular stations in the particular direction that most people are going saving them time and miles per person in not having to take them all the way around the loop. It is amazing how they run the number of trains they do through only four tunnels. I guess that if they ran trains in both directions simultaneously to and from particular destinations, then they would have to build another four tunnels for the loop. But anyway, you have to be on your guard because they are tricky. You can easily end up somewhere you didn't expect to go.
i thought the announcers deliberately blubbered so no-one could understand them.
The silver front end of the refurb harris sets always made me think of the cybermen from Dr Who
😊
Wow. Nice. You don't see much footage of a parcels tait or z van very often. Thanks.
Nearly everything on rails interests me, so that’s why you may see oddities in my videos.
When I was a kid, we used to play on the tracks on the Sandringham line between Prahran and Windsor. We would hide when the parcel trains came through because we thought they had police on them.
Andrej Panjkov Nice Story about the Parcels Vans! And there are still plenty of stretches of track without fences for easy access, but nobody seemed to get hurt by trains.
Always liked the red rattlers in Sydney as a boy because it said "You are in Sydney" when visiting my grandparents. Just the same for the old rattlers in Melbourne there is a character about them not these bland aluminium tubes that run around today just is not the same it gave each city a distinctive feel.
The red trains in both Sydney and Melbourne certainly both had plenty of character. While Melbourne’s were called Red Rattlers for decades, I only ever heard it during the last few red years in Sydney. The newspapers were keen on getting rid of them so used that uncomplimentary term. Fans call them Red Sets now.
Ah, the closest that Victoria ever got to Switzerland. (i.e. only electrified track)
I’ve never seen those elliptical roofed parcel vans. Info on those things seems to be quite hard to come by.
The Melbourne parcel vans also had the same body style as the electric trains of the era, but in my opinion looked extremely old-fashioned even when they started running in 1919. Sydney also had parcel vans and if you have not already seen my video, here is the link.
Fast Electric Parcel Vans
ua-cam.com/video/oMpMIMzzRFI/v-deo.html
There is a good section on some of the parcel motors and Jolimont Workshop pilots on the wikipedia article for the swing doors en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Door_(train)#Parcel_motors_CM
Quite a few of them were preserved when compared to the regular trains, as the parcel motors lasted into the 1980s and the workshop shunters until the 1990s
I was a guard on the "sparks" from 1980 to 1985, (roughly), i was outstationed at Broadmeadows, i hated the last trains of a Friday and Saturday nights, Many gangs of vandals .
I started on the trams late 1997. At that time anyway while ‘partygoers’ were out and about on those nights, they weren’t so much of a problem. Maybe the shorter vehicle and especially when there were conductors, somebody to keep an eye on them, they had to behave a little better. On trains they could easily escape attention.
That's some excellent footage there, as with other videos!
Fawkner Railway station (at least what is now Platform 2) doesn't seem to have changed significantly since that was taken.
Those swing gates were there until well into the 1990's, but like you said previously, the Upfield Line was not well-ridden (and consequently, no investment was made in it for years). Even now, the timetable is less frequent than most lines during peak.
You are lucky the line still exists. Around 1987 there were strong plans to convert it to light rail and take the Rt 19 trams out of Sydney Road. That stirred up a bit of a hornet’s nest! Anyway it was gradually upgraded instead in later years.
I know that, my parents (and family friends) have told me about it. They never did close it, of course and eventually they duplicated it between Merlynston to Gowrie (which was in 1998).
Although there are no 3-carriage trains running anymore. They used to be common until 2004 (or so).
The plan was in the Metplan 1987. It seems not to be online but there you can see where you can look at a copy.
Maybe the State Library has a copy. I might have a geez there (sometime) to see if it's around or not there.
Just do a google search for ‘Metplan 1987’ and the sites will tell you where there are copies. Several other transport proposals are discussed in it also.
Taits were banned on the Pakenham line because it was thought they couldn’t endure the constant high speeds. However I did ride a special to Traralgon. The Tait even went into an electrified siding for photos, I forget which, Longwarry?
I also travelled on a Tait around The Loop in the early days of it’s opening. Taits were banned in The Loop in case they caught fire but a few got through in the confusion of early days.
Also a few years later a pair of L classes and a load of briquettes in GYs were wrongly routed through The Loop, I was told about it and didn’t see it.
That decision sounds like it was made by a Johnny-come-lately ‘engineer’ who didn’t know what he was talking about. Unfortunately I did not live in Melbourne or I would have gone on that tour.
@@tressteleg1 One tour I wanted to go on was a Commeng to Traralgon but the authorities wimped it and ran a Hitachi instead. Later a Commeng was run and they rode well at 70mph. A photo stop was made at the end of the electrified section and there was only enough wire for a single L class to run around and the 3 car Commeng sat there with one pantograph under the wire and the other two cars sticking out past the end of the wire and the panto was down.
@@darylcheshire1618 I was the Guard on the second train with passengers on it through the newly opened city loop. The first one had the pollies and the senior union guy was driving. (Terry Sheedy ??) After that we mere mortals were allowed to run trains through.
@@mendocinobeano Yes I was waiting in Museum when a Tait arrived. In those days every 2nd-3rd train was a Tait.
13:10, nice Flared jeans.
Funny how you had narrower bodied trains on wider tracks!
I decided to check the width of Tait trains at floor level. It was 9‘6“ or 2.9 m which was exactly the width of the New South Wales trains which travelled beyond the suburban area. That included the single deck U sets. While the Taits were certainly no wider, I think they are taller which makes them look skinnier.
@@tressteleg1 you're right about the height factor. What are those roof extensions about? I'm guessing ventilation or just a legacy of a certain style of carriage from the steam era. What ornate lighting they had. Melbourne had a more decorative style with their PT.
Not a fan of the single windows on the fronts.
I suppose you mean the raised sections along the centre of the roofs. It was probably a design or relevant to the days of kerosene carriage lighting. While some early Melbourne electric trains had been built for steam hauled service, post-electrification cars for many years were still built to the same antiquated design. I guess they fall into the classification of being so ugly you can’t help but be attracted to them. Nevertheless their sounds were great.
Silent movies sound the best.
Yeah, you can play your own favourite music 🔊
I’d love to see some footage of electric passenger and freight on the Traralgon line from around this time period, if you have any. I’ve always been curious about it as I believe it was once the longest electrified line in the country?
You could well be right about the longest electric line in days gone, but now Queensland has more electrified track than the rest of Australia combined. Anyway as for your request, sorry but I have nothing and in fact little more of anything in Victoria. Maybe I have a little of the electric coal mine trains that once ran there. It is a disgrace that VR, V/Line or whoever de-electrified that line.
It is a shame; also the fact that the line was originally only de-electrified up until Warragul. The Pakenham line was the Warragul line up until the mid 1990s, with regular electric suburban services running (There’s footage of this on UA-cam, search ‘Warragul electric suburbans’)
A second decision was then made to cut back electrification to Pakenham, for some unknown reason. I bet they’re wishing they hadn’t of done that nowadays, with all the residential developments popping up in Warragul and Drouin.
There is pressure within the NSW railways to cut the Lithgow electrification back to somewhere on top of the mountains, heavens knows why.
As for Victoria, I cannot understand why especially Geelong as well as Ballarat and Bendigo are not electrified like the 3 similar lines out of Sydney. I suspect that it may be some sort of empire fight - V/Line against Metro. Sharing the existing overhead goes against their grain it seems. It makes me laugh when V/L crows about their patronage. Nearly all of this is simply outer suburban commuters. And the passengers suffer with noisy slow off the mark rail motors. Even Qld has electric all the way to Gold Coast and Gympie to the north, run as part of the City Train network.
PTV’s network development plan does have provisions for Geelong line electrification and transfer to Metro within the next 10-20 years, however the Metro Tunnel is currently priority #1. I suspect the reason V/Line isn’t more enthusiastic about electrification is simply because they don’t have any electric locomotives anymore.
I think it is more a matter of V/L not wanting to lose its most profitable (I suppose) line to Metro. Also they would run upgraded suburban type trains with toilets, locos would not come into it.
Qld is the only state with electric locos and they are ONLY used for coal trains. There used to be 3900 class electrics for the north coast passenger and freight trains but these were grabbed for coal work and never given back. With the coal and other freight sold off (Aurizon) we have a 3way split. Suburban, long distance Pass, freight/coal and each is its own empire. Long distance freight desperately needed an Electric Tilt Train replacement during TT overhauls, but were stuck with with diesel locos. Presumably they could not even get back from City Trains the previous MU electrics which did the Rocky run before. Privatisation and corporatising different parts of our Railways only creates bad inflexible results.
Great footage, as a kid the Harris trains were the best, standing in the doorways on a hot summers day. Do you know when the Alemain footage is from? When I was a kid in the early 80s they still rain a two car Tait on the weekends to Camberwell and back, not sure what got used for weekdays. We'd ride it up and down on a saturday without tickets, but no-one ever bothered us. There were very few others passengers if I remember correctly 😊
I have to remember a long way back but the rail and tram crossing scenes possibly dated from my first visit to Melbourne in 1965. If not sometime over the next few years. The single car train near Camberwell was taken by an unknown cameraman, possibly around 1970. Anyway I’m pleased it brought back some memories. A video of the line as it is today as seen by the driver will appear later in the year.
The Taits were quieter than the newer Hitachis which had a metal on metal rattly sound. Someone told me the Hitachis were a rush job and poorly put together.
It seems like your recollections are similar to mine. Hitachis seemed like hollow tin boxes on wheels.
With Signalmen at all four Flinders St Signal Boxes the term "Willy up North" was the code for the Williamstown train through Melbourne. Just a Fun Fact
Glad you explained it. Today’s generations would have quite different thoughts about that!
real trains
Definitely!
enjoyed. can't place where platform 13 was. i don't recognize the steel girder overhead. i imagine the brick building is in the jolimont yard. as i watch the grey harrises, i'm thinking why waste money painting them, they look fine, then i notice the altered roof line. it looks like a/c may have been installed. therefore they would have been good trains to catch in summer. nevertheless, the trains i preferred, summer or winter was the dog boxes. you usually had a compartment to yourselves. at 1:24, did you have chips?
Platform 13 was I think the extreme eastern end of platform 11. I don’t believe the refurbished Harris trains got air conditioning except possibly for the driver. While the rebuild was probably successful, any train or tram that is different from the vast majority of the fleet tends to be hated by most drivers. That was probably a factor in their quick disappearance. I don’t understand your reference to chips at 1:24.
it doesn't look like i remember it but i'm sure you're right about platform 13. i think for a while they may have called it 11 east. i knew the port melb line. i'm sure the quick disappearance of the harris cars had more to do with the fluffy blue asbestos in them. the worst kind. that's why they were unceremoniously dumped as fast as they could be delivered to oakleigh and clayton tips(i think it was both) the ones that remained were the few that had some other insulation in them. i don't think vr/vline/vicrail was happy about getting rid of them. they had no choice. i stand to be corrected on this. my dad drove sparks till the early 80's and he never mentioned a dislike of the 'grey ghosts'. the ones that remain in country service seem to have the same roof shape as the grey ghosts in your film. the reference to chips was about the seagulls. if the men who went to the moon had fish and chips, the seagulls would have turned up there too.
By your wording maybe your dad is not around to comment about Driver attitude towards those trains. But certainly from my time on the trams, anything different was not preferred by the majority of drivers. Us fans however liked variety. I believe that these rebuilds had all the asbestos removed but ultimately it was decided to be not worth the expense. Also Harris Trains had a variety of horsepower in different orders and the rebuilt ones had the weakest motors. This could make it a battle to stay on time. I may be able to find out more about FS platform numbering.
you seem well informed. so you're probably right about the harris cars. the reason i replied twice is coz the first reply disappeared into the ether. it hadn't appeared a couple of hours later so i rereplied. and now yt has found my first reply behind or under the desk it has been posted.
I just checked the notes from my driver friend as well as the draft version prepared for him to help me, and 13 certainly is the east end of former 11. 12 is at the east end of 10. While the destination is Flinders St, nearly always Sandy trains through worked to St Kilda, and those trains went from platform 11 which is basically gone now. What used to be Platform 1 East is now 14. Personally the way those numbers are scattered all over the place, I think that 1 East, 10 East etc made a lot more sense. The next train screens showing destinations of obscure hamlets like Waurn Ponds without any mention of Geelong are also diabolical for visitors.
Best Melbourne train video on UA-cam! Any old footage of Macleod?
Yep. I’m proud of it. Have you seen my Harris Trains one? Otherwise the cupboard is bare for vintage Victoria.
@@tressteleg1 yes great stuff especially since so little Harris footage exists. Shame they didn't preserve some like they did with the reds
I’m surprised that so there is almost no other Harris train footage on UA-cam. Not until I started posting videos some years ago did I completely realise that so few rail fans were taking movie and video as early as myself. In fact some fans were still taking black and white photographs when I was into motion. And who really wants to look at black-and-white photo today? I think an overreaction to asbestos was an important factor in the Harris cars more or less all being scrapped so quickly. And fans maybe considered that they were too modern to preserve. That happens.
Like as if it were yesterday !
Hi nice Video. I was wondering if I could use a couple of clips for a video I’m doing
Ill be able to credit you somewhere if you want?
That would be OK with accrediting. What do you expect the name of the video to be? It could well be something I would like to watch.
I am in the middle of making a video of every single electric train that existed in Melbourne so swing door, taits, L classes, parcels and everything and now I’m only waiting on one type of train In a video. the swing door & an E class.
Would you happen to have any swing door train videos
The name of the Video would probably The History Of Every Melbourne Electric Train
That is quite an ambitious project. I hope the viewers will appreciate the work you will be putting into it.
I have published all the vintage movie and video I took. I don’t have any more.
I thought I had done a playlist of all the Victorian lineside views, but it seems not. Have you found the scene of the L starting off just near Caulfield? Regarding the E class, I believe I do have some colour slides of a few of them. If they may be of interest, let me know and I will see what I have got.
Have you checked out UA-cam ‘reidgck’? He was taking movie and video before me. He may even have something unpublished?
tressteleg1 thanks. Yes I have left a comment on one of his videos asking but he hasn’t got back to me & no I do not know of the L class scene at Caulfield
they were so bax
It’s 1983
Some of it was 1983. The sound parts were 1985 or later when I got my first video camera.
A mix of film from different eras. Although some may be from the date you specified.
For example the swing door Dog Box trains had gone from normal service early in 1974. Some Tait's are from before the early seventies window covering of the sliding door aperture glass.
@johnd8892 Silent Movie was taken any time 1964 to mid 1984. Video camera from mid 84.