@@MarcSpectorComics thats just the 7% that Cgc know about. If you think that this scammer has been doing this since 2011 and not told anyone else how the scam works you are mad. The cgc census numbers for lower grade books has always been dubious due to the amount of CPR going on, now the 9.8 numbers are dodgy as well....
@@padbearj3154 I'm sure that there's been multiple people working with this one individual. We have to wait and see what the private investigator aka the FBI have found. This is going to taken some time. If you remember, operation bullpen which most people aren't familiar with in the comic space that took the FBI 6 years to complete. In the meantime we can only go by the numbers we have. I do suspect that this is only the tip of the iceberg as I've said multiple times. I am not surprised though that the number one book on the list is an ASM 300 9.8 there are ample amounts of them on the census and it's the most graded book in the census what I am surprised is that there's an AF-15 on the census
What a mess indeed, my goodness. If CGC knows who their customer or customers are sending out lots of regolders, why aren't they putting the individual or individuals on blast? It's messed up.
I'm glad you made this video! It gave me hope for the value of my graded collection. 🙂 I think the cgc mess will eventually work itself out. Might take a couple years but still will smooth out.
The world is continuing to turn. CGC graded books are being bought and sold every minute and while there is cause for caution, this won’t be the end of CGC or third party grading as some are proselytizing.
The collecting community owes guys like you. You've pointed out that the CGC list has invalidated 90% of the conjecture that so many youtubers assumed "oh, I think it's a narrow problem, it's only Mark Jewelers, or it's only high-volume books". Which leads to this - I think that collectors need to understand that this CGC list is JUST the list of the re-holdering scam, and JUST from this one guy. This list is NOT the "heat gun, open the CGC slab, slide a lower copy into a higher-grade CGC slab" scam AND no one knows how long that has been going on and how widespread it is. OKAY? Collectors and dealers need to accept the fact that EVERY single Blue Label CGC slab they've bought (and that they see up for sale) should be suspected for having a missing panel, restoration or fake grade at this point. EVERY single Blue label CGC slab in existence is suspect - even the ones they, themselves had graded if they try to sell it - because it's just their word that they didn't do a switch themselves. With as easy as it is to open and switch a high grade CGC blue label comic into a much higher CGC Blue label grade, or switch a purple, restored book into a Blue CGC slab - and the thousands of dollars that can be stolen in this manner, there's no telling how many books have been switched by how many people. 100% of Blue CGC labels are no longer indicators that the book inside isn't missing a panel and doesn't have color touch, or hasn't been scribbled on the interior pages. It's really that simple. CGC cases are not secure. No one knows what % of CGC slabs have infested collections and dealer stocks over the past few years, and it's impossible to determine if a CGC slab has a comic in it that matches the label (not without cracking it open).
@@CoMoComicBooks With all respect - that is bad advice. In my opinion, we cannot trust any CGC slabs that are for sale, or any that we bought that are in our collections - and there is no way to do due diligence. The only slab that I am now "sure" of are ones where I sent the book in raw, and even those are trustworthy only to me, no one else can trust mine, and I can't trust theirs - because anyone could be fibbing or forgetful as to how they got their CGC slab. I have been on the hunt for a big FF Key - in around a CGC 6.0. Have been keeping my eye on a few of them online for sale. Not trying to be argumentative, but how could I "do" due diligence on a CGC 6.0 FF1 that I'd buy for $25,000 and be certain that it doesn't have color touch, or a coupon cut, or scribble throughout the interior of the book? How do I do my "due diligence" online, or in person, when I know, for a fact, that CGC slabs are easily opened, and resealed, and it's possible that the book inside this CGC slab was switched out with a $2500 book. HOW? No, I can't go off of a dealer's reputation or feedback ratings, since they may be (in fact are probably) unaware. At least the 350 comics that are floating around in collections right now that with fake CGC grades from re-holdering are traceable (at least from that one scammer... there could be more scammers doing the same thing) but the "heat and swap out" CGC scam is 100% undetectable. Again, not trying to argue - can you please tell me how to "do due diligence"? On the other hand... If the book is NOT in a CGC slab... I'd be able to spot restoration, missing coupons, color touch, married pages - at LEAST as well as the people at CGC. CGC slabs don't guarantee anything - all they do now is HIDE potential flaws.
My advice would be to avoid the buying platforms you mention if you’re that concerned about the validity of what you’re buying. In all reality, the number of books as a percentage of the whole population of slabbed books is likely minuscule. While I wouldn’t advise running out and buying 9.8 ASM194s or 300s right now, the overwhelming majority of books in the market are genuine. Unless you’ve examined a tampered slab, how do you know it’s undetectable? Even the best forgeries or faked items tend to have tells. Buying anything comes with an inherent level of risk, especially when you’re buying collectibles. Raw copies can have undetected color touch or married pages. Loose toys can be sold with reproduction accessories. A Michael Jordan rookie card can be a reproduction. That is why most selling platforms or businesses have return policies. While there is cause for concern and we’re all anxiously waiting to see how this is going to be solved for, the truth is that world will keep on turning and slabs are being bought and sold every minute of every day, just like they were three weeks ago before all of this came out. Collectors everywhere just have to assess their tolerance for risk and make the best decisions they can with the information we have available.
Thanks for listening. I think that's good advice... I won't buy CGC slabs until the new re-designed slabs come out. I have about 250 slabs. Hopefully, none have been compromised. Unfortunately, I have an Avengers #1, which I just noticed has a stress crack at the bottom, and one on the side, that I never thought twice about until now. It has a Heritage sticker on the back (from a previous sale) but of course, that means nothing. Anyway, I will just cross my fingers on the CGC slabs I have, and not buy any more. One good thing - by waiting on the FF 1, I'll save the $1000 CGC fee (4% of the FF1 value that CGC will charge for a $25K book) from not having to re-slab an existing one, to get a book which I know hasn't been tampered with. Thanks again. @@CoMoComicBooks
😬 That would be a surprising outcome. They’ve got a lot of money behind them and I’m still seeing lots of CGC books sell on the daily. My hope is that the situation helps to motivate them to continue to innovate and improve their products and services and not just sit back and rake in the cash, week after week, with more in-house signing events and the like.
Quite the opposite I believe. This short term scandal and potential loss of revenue will be greatly made up after CGC creates a better case. That will lead to a lot of collectors and dealers sending in their books to get the new case and increase their revenues especially since they will probably now also increase the price of grading.
The ones that really confuse me are the Sigs... what was the plan here? Forging a signature and slipping it into the yellow label? But then what about the original signed book? CBCS verification?
I generally agree, but I’d much rather break out my Masterpieces for a casual read, as opposed to thumbing through my AF15. That said, there are so man slabbed books out there that make no sense to me. I tend to only slab books that are four figures and up.
LOL-this is going to be around for a long time. mainly cause there are a few who just wont catch it, a lot that will choose to use the circumstances to make the books worth even more money(ooh, look,Ive got this scam book for sale,its only twice as much as a regular copy), and some that will still choose to sell them anyway as is and not care about passing on the scam as long as they make their money). Nice video btw:)
I agree, it’s not going to be a quick fix. I can appreciate the novelty of having a scam book, but I think there is no doubt that the best thing for the community is for them all to be evaluated and updated by CGC. Thanks for watching!
Good video Drew. My first thought is we have to trust CGC when they claim only 300-400 books might be affected. What happens in the course of time if we find out that number is really 3,000+ books, or more ? If CGC is lying about the 300-400 claim of potential problem books, then any remaining confidence in them would be lost forever.
CGC really is going to have to come up with a tamper proof case. And maybe also do like the other company and have the comic sealed in an inner sleeve along with the paper grade value sealed in as well.
your video gave me an idea. i wonder if its possible to figure how far back this goes using the type of books that the scammer chose. you are right spiderman will move fast, im wondering if they chose spiderman 300 because of the venom movie? the spiderman issues so far seemed to heavily favor black suit/venom. that would put this around 2021 in terms of years which was also when the venom movie was released, so there would be previews and teases before that. just a theory, the gambit xmen book...gambit was talked about having his own movie a while ago though i cant remember exactly when, but that could be a reason why the scammer chose to use that book if trying to figure out a time frame. or i could be wrong and he chose books that had the highest potential bump from mid to high. it will be interesting to see if cgc raises prices due to having to reinvest into new processes and potentially new machines to make a more tamper proof case. they are heavily invested in the machines and process now. the tmnt 1 hurt me especially. side note, if you are going to be at planet comic con in kansas city, ill see you there.
The higher count books all enjoy a large group of interested characters. Most people know and like Venom, Gambit, the Hobgoblin, etc and are still able to afford high grade copies of their first appearances. I think that is the main reason those issues were focused in on. More copies in circulation also means a bigger pool of books to pull from for the ol’ switcheroo. As far as Planet is concerned, I should be back in my usual spot again this year: Booth 1311! We’re seriously the 2nd comic book dealer you pass once you get off of the main elevator. See you in KC in a couple of months!
The bright side is that the 9.8 census will be reduced counteracting the narrative that the spread between 9.8, 9.6, 9.4 etc is too much. Basically, there are actually less high grade books than we thought.
For once I’m happy that I own mostly low grades in my collection. I own a low grade FF 12 and a mid grade ASM 252, not worth any scammers time to reslab.
They do. My assumption (they did not come out and confirm how they pulled the list) is that the list they provided was sourced from their submission history.
As someone who has one (I unfortunately have an ASM 194 cgc 9.8 black cat label) do you think there might come a time when having one of these scammed books might make them more collectible? This hobby does tend to make weird stuff desirable.
So sorry to hear that! Stranger things have definitely occurred, to your point. Ultimately, I think it’s in the best interest of everyone that the books be sent back and verified for what they truly are. For you, I would just have to ask if the novelty of it (especially since it’s very easy to document the validity of the claim about the book with the info from CGC) is worth the risk of the value of the book? If potentially being out $2,500-$3,000 but having a piece of history from the hobby and a good story are worth it to you, hang onto it. At that point, the responsibility falls on you to make sure that the book is properly identified as being a scam book. So that the situation doesn’t perpetuate after the book leaves your collection.
Where did this guy get the blue labels from? Is that explained out there somewhere? I get the idea of putting a lesser book into a higher graded blue label holder, or go from purple or green to blue, but don't the blue labels have to be out there? Or did he have the ability to print his own blue labels?
He was buying, or otherwise acquiring, a blue label book and a purple/green label book, cracking both out and placing the purple/green book in the blue label well. Or that is our current assumption about how it was being done. That would leave him with the raw blue label book and a fraudulent blue label slab with the restored or qualified book in the well with the universal label.
@@CoMoComicBooks so, he could get the raw book regraded and get the higher grade. Then his profit would be the difference between the costs of the blue label and the other non-blue label book. I guess with the volume of books involved the profit would add up.
@@TripleDAdventures yeah. More or less. He'd be out grading fees for the "good" book and the cost of the "bad" book, but would almost certainly 2-5x his money (depending on the original grade and what it was replaced with) and would then be able to double dip (less fees) with the "good" book that was removed so it's outer well could be used as a skin suit. 😬
Out of curiosity, I cross-referenced the Silver Age books on the CGC list with a run-down of mid-60s Marvel comics containing a “Marvel Masterwork Pin-Up.” I assumed there would be quite a few of these on the list, the result of the scammer swapping out intact copies for copies with a missing pin-up. Turned out I found only two books on the CGC list that were published with a pin-up, those being Amazing Spider-Man issue 3 (3 copies) and Fantastic Four issue 2 (2 copies).
That’s a great point! As soon as you mentioned it, those were the first books I thought about. Would make for great swap opportunities with qualified copies.
Honestly from what I’ve seen there doesn’t appear to be much of a noticeable impact for them. Not sure if I’m just missing it or if they’re truly just over there doing their thing like nothing is going on in the world.
If cgc was really going to fo the right thing they wouldnt charge to regrade the affected books. I also think cgc should refund the money of the people who unknowingly bought fradulent copies
The scammer will have to be sued by CGC before CGC will issue 1 dime. Once a lawsuit and judgement, then and only then will they be able to get "their" (the buyers) money back.
If you read the statement from CGC, I did not get the feeling that they were going to be charging the end collectors for regrading. I interpreted more to the effect that they were going to compensate people to make them whole, as needed.
I think it’s the same way it’s always been, for me at least. I tend to be a little jaded and have trust issues, so I always thoroughly inspect any book I buy for tampering or damage. I’m also a big proponent of “Buy the book, not the grade.” This risk has always been present when buying a CGC book, but now that we know it has been done, we’re all much more cognizant of it.
I understand your livelihood is partially dependent and you can’t bash CGC. Immaculate comics is one of the heroes in the story. He exposed something that helps the community and CGC identify the security risk. Too many UA-camrs are bashing this guy and calling CGC the victim. Some CC’s make a living off of superheroes but are showing they are villains. Sad
I named no names sir. I just don’t agree that showing the entire world how to pull off a comparable scam is a heroic act, to use your words, and I 100% can bash CGC. I think that sharing that information with CGC directly would have been great, specifically to show them how easy it is to do with some fairly basic household items. If that position makes me villainous, pass the pumpkin bombs. 🎃
@@CoMoComicBooks correct you didn’t say his name but you didn’t have to. It’s like me saying that qb for the cowboys, I don’t have to say his name for everyone to know who I’m talking about. No one makes anyone a scammer, it’s a choice. Showing the scam, gives the community and CGC the knowledge and understanding to look out for such tampering. Also makes CGC take countermeasures in the future. I prefer you be a hero in the story so put away those pumpkin bombs. I know as a dealer you are more effected then 99% of the community. My hope is justice is served, people are made whole, and this strengthens the community when all is said and done.
@@derekrice5203I’m pretty fortunate, as I have a very minimal inventory of slabs, and have generally had a decent mix of CGC and CBCS. I have no doubt that dealers who deal exclusively, or all but exclusively, in CGC graded books are going to face an uphill battle until the community comes to some sort of resolution. For me and my business model, I’ve always preferred to deal (primarily) in raw books. I’ve found that selling things raw and saving the time and money it takes to have something slabbed works out for me most of the time.
I said last night on our live show that it's completely dumb to put up what is basically a " Tutorial " video on how to do what this guy did and get away with it. While that's not what the intent of those videos was, they will definitely be used as such. Just gotta think about what you're doing before you do stuff like that.
You can stop saying "Alleged Scammer" . Felony Fraud was definitely committed here. Shockingly, No one has been identified as having committed a crime, so there is no potential defamation taking place. Call it what it "is"..because to the uninitiated your presupposing (unintentionally) that perhaps the crime isnt what it appears to be, and we know thats not true.
7% of the ASM 300 9.8 census being affected is WILD when you think about it.
Terrifying. I would be so nervous if I was sitting on a copy of that book.
In the grand scheme of things 7% of anything is miniscule. Or 0.3% of the total census lol
@@MarcSpectorComics thats just the 7% that Cgc know about. If you think that this scammer has been doing this since 2011 and not told anyone else how the scam works you are mad. The cgc census numbers for lower grade books has always been dubious due to the amount of CPR going on, now the 9.8 numbers are dodgy as well....
@@padbearj3154 I'm sure that there's been multiple people working with this one individual. We have to wait and see what the private investigator aka the FBI have found. This is going to taken some time. If you remember, operation bullpen which most people aren't familiar with in the comic space that took the FBI 6 years to complete. In the meantime we can only go by the numbers we have. I do suspect that this is only the tip of the iceberg as I've said multiple times. I am not surprised though that the number one book on the list is an ASM 300 9.8 there are ample amounts of them on the census and it's the most graded book in the census what I am surprised is that there's an AF-15 on the census
What a mess indeed, my goodness. If CGC knows who their customer or customers are sending out lots of regolders, why aren't they putting the individual or individuals on blast? It's messed up.
I'm glad you made this video! It gave me hope for the value of my graded collection. 🙂 I think the cgc mess will eventually work itself out. Might take a couple years but still will smooth out.
The world is continuing to turn. CGC graded books are being bought and sold every minute and while there is cause for caution, this won’t be the end of CGC or third party grading as some are proselytizing.
The collecting community owes guys like you. You've pointed out that the CGC list has invalidated 90% of the conjecture that so many youtubers assumed "oh, I think it's a narrow problem, it's only Mark Jewelers, or it's only high-volume books". Which leads to this - I think that collectors need to understand that this CGC list is JUST the list of the re-holdering scam, and JUST from this one guy. This list is NOT the "heat gun, open the CGC slab, slide a lower copy into a higher-grade CGC slab" scam AND no one knows how long that has been going on and how widespread it is. OKAY? Collectors and dealers need to accept the fact that EVERY single Blue Label CGC slab they've bought (and that they see up for sale) should be suspected for having a missing panel, restoration or fake grade at this point. EVERY single Blue label CGC slab in existence is suspect - even the ones they, themselves had graded if they try to sell it - because it's just their word that they didn't do a switch themselves. With as easy as it is to open and switch a high grade CGC blue label comic into a much higher CGC Blue label grade, or switch a purple, restored book into a Blue CGC slab - and the thousands of dollars that can be stolen in this manner, there's no telling how many books have been switched by how many people. 100% of Blue CGC labels are no longer indicators that the book inside isn't missing a panel and doesn't have color touch, or hasn't been scribbled on the interior pages. It's really that simple. CGC cases are not secure. No one knows what % of CGC slabs have infested collections and dealer stocks over the past few years, and it's impossible to determine if a CGC slab has a comic in it that matches the label (not without cracking it open).
Always have to do your due diligence. If something doesn’t seem right, then no deal is better than a bad deal.
@@CoMoComicBooks With all respect - that is bad advice. In my opinion, we cannot trust any CGC slabs that are for sale, or any that we bought that are in our collections - and there is no way to do due diligence. The only slab that I am now "sure" of are ones where I sent the book in raw, and even those are trustworthy only to me, no one else can trust mine, and I can't trust theirs - because anyone could be fibbing or forgetful as to how they got their CGC slab. I have been on the hunt for a big FF Key - in around a CGC 6.0. Have been keeping my eye on a few of them online for sale. Not trying to be argumentative, but how could I "do" due diligence on a CGC 6.0 FF1 that I'd buy for $25,000 and be certain that it doesn't have color touch, or a coupon cut, or scribble throughout the interior of the book? How do I do my "due diligence" online, or in person, when I know, for a fact, that CGC slabs are easily opened, and resealed, and it's possible that the book inside this CGC slab was switched out with a $2500 book. HOW? No, I can't go off of a dealer's reputation or feedback ratings, since they may be (in fact are probably) unaware. At least the 350 comics that are floating around in collections right now that with fake CGC grades from re-holdering are traceable (at least from that one scammer... there could be more scammers doing the same thing) but the "heat and swap out" CGC scam is 100% undetectable. Again, not trying to argue - can you please tell me how to "do due diligence"? On the other hand... If the book is NOT in a CGC slab... I'd be able to spot restoration, missing coupons, color touch, married pages - at LEAST as well as the people at CGC. CGC slabs don't guarantee anything - all they do now is HIDE potential flaws.
My advice would be to avoid the buying platforms you mention if you’re that concerned about the validity of what you’re buying. In all reality, the number of books as a percentage of the whole population of slabbed books is likely minuscule. While I wouldn’t advise running out and buying 9.8 ASM194s or 300s right now, the overwhelming majority of books in the market are genuine.
Unless you’ve examined a tampered slab, how do you know it’s undetectable? Even the best forgeries or faked items tend to have tells.
Buying anything comes with an inherent level of risk, especially when you’re buying collectibles. Raw copies can have undetected color touch or married pages. Loose toys can be sold with reproduction accessories. A Michael Jordan rookie card can be a reproduction. That is why most selling platforms or businesses have return policies.
While there is cause for concern and we’re all anxiously waiting to see how this is going to be solved for, the truth is that world will keep on turning and slabs are being bought and sold every minute of every day, just like they were three weeks ago before all of this came out. Collectors everywhere just have to assess their tolerance for risk and make the best decisions they can with the information we have available.
Thanks for listening. I think that's good advice... I won't buy CGC slabs until the new re-designed slabs come out. I have about 250 slabs. Hopefully, none have been compromised. Unfortunately, I have an Avengers #1, which I just noticed has a stress crack at the bottom, and one on the side, that I never thought twice about until now. It has a Heritage sticker on the back (from a previous sale) but of course, that means nothing. Anyway, I will just cross my fingers on the CGC slabs I have, and not buy any more. One good thing - by waiting on the FF 1, I'll save the $1000 CGC fee (4% of the FF1 value that CGC will charge for a $25K book) from not having to re-slab an existing one, to get a book which I know hasn't been tampered with. Thanks again. @@CoMoComicBooks
Where can I find the list if certification list so I can confirm my books.
It’s on CGC’s website. You will find it in the post yesterday with the update under their News tab.
Found the list i called cgc and they send me a email.
@@mikebutler3239good luck! I hope everything works out.
My prediction: 2026 CGC files for chapter 11
😬 That would be a surprising outcome. They’ve got a lot of money behind them and I’m still seeing lots of CGC books sell on the daily. My hope is that the situation helps to motivate them to continue to innovate and improve their products and services and not just sit back and rake in the cash, week after week, with more in-house signing events and the like.
Quite the opposite I believe. This short term scandal and potential loss of revenue will be greatly made up after CGC creates a better case. That will lead to a lot of collectors and dealers sending in their books to get the new case and increase their revenues especially since they will probably now also increase the price of grading.
@@rogera616 would you pay more for a better case? if you say yes, that's you. not me.
The ones that really confuse me are the Sigs... what was the plan here? Forging a signature and slipping it into the yellow label? But then what about the original signed book? CBCS verification?
That definitely seems like a complication you would want to avoid. At least it seems that way to me.
Great breakdown!
Thanks for checking it out!
All the issues I have I know are good having submitted those ASM issues myself. And now I only head with cbcs so I’m clear
Glad you can mark yourself as safe from the reholder scam!
that person is gonna have it rough. if all those involve the mail its multiple federal offenses.could be looking at 30+ yrs. in the goulag.
Absolutely. I don’t envy the legal pickle they’ve gotten themselves into.
The AF #15 is a 6.0 Stan Lee (first page) SS. If it’s lower grade and unigned that could be 10s of thousands in losses.
In a hurry!!! Those may be ones or twos on the list, but could potentially be a ton in lost value.
I have never and will never CGC or case any books. Comics are meant to be read.
I generally agree, but I’d much rather break out my Masterpieces for a casual read, as opposed to thumbing through my AF15. That said, there are so man slabbed books out there that make no sense to me. I tend to only slab books that are four figures and up.
LOL-this is going to be around for a long time. mainly cause there are a few who just wont catch it, a lot that will choose to use the circumstances to make the books worth even more money(ooh, look,Ive got this scam book for sale,its only twice as much as a regular copy), and some that will still choose to sell them anyway as is and not care about passing on the scam as long as they make their money). Nice video btw:)
I agree, it’s not going to be a quick fix. I can appreciate the novelty of having a scam book, but I think there is no doubt that the best thing for the community is for them all to be evaluated and updated by CGC. Thanks for watching!
Great video
Thanks for the info
Thank you for watching!!!
Good video Drew. My first thought is we have to trust CGC when they claim only 300-400 books might be affected. What happens in the course of time if we find out that number is really 3,000+ books, or more ? If CGC is lying about the 300-400 claim of potential problem books, then any remaining confidence in them would be lost forever.
Transparency is definitely critical for them right now.
CGC really is going to have to come up with a tamper proof case. And maybe also do like the other company and have the comic sealed in an inner sleeve along with the paper grade value sealed in as well.
Definitely some advances that are going to have to be made.
your video gave me an idea. i wonder if its possible to figure how far back this goes using the type of books that the scammer chose. you are right spiderman will move fast, im wondering if they chose spiderman 300 because of the venom movie? the spiderman issues so far seemed to heavily favor black suit/venom. that would put this around 2021 in terms of years which was also when the venom movie was released, so there would be previews and teases before that. just a theory, the gambit xmen book...gambit was talked about having his own movie a while ago though i cant remember exactly when, but that could be a reason why the scammer chose to use that book if trying to figure out a time frame. or i could be wrong and he chose books that had the highest potential bump from mid to high.
it will be interesting to see if cgc raises prices due to having to reinvest into new processes and potentially new machines to make a more tamper proof case. they are heavily invested in the machines and process now. the tmnt 1 hurt me especially.
side note, if you are going to be at planet comic con in kansas city, ill see you there.
The higher count books all enjoy a large group of interested characters. Most people know and like Venom, Gambit, the Hobgoblin, etc and are still able to afford high grade copies of their first appearances. I think that is the main reason those issues were focused in on. More copies in circulation also means a bigger pool of books to pull from for the ol’ switcheroo.
As far as Planet is concerned, I should be back in my usual spot again this year: Booth 1311! We’re seriously the 2nd comic book dealer you pass once you get off of the main elevator. See you in KC in a couple of months!
Hopefully not all of the 300 plus suspect books have been tampered with. It may only be a handful instead of every book this seller submitted
i think there is only one way non returnable screws in all 4 corners job done
The catch is that the wells do need to be removable at some point. Slabs aren’t archival.
The bright side is that the 9.8 census will be reduced counteracting the narrative that the spread between 9.8, 9.6, 9.4 etc is too much. Basically, there are actually less high grade books than we thought.
The hard part is going to be tracking all of these books down to have them verified.
What happened to the person they caught??
Nothing yet, that I’m aware of. It’s a fairly fresh situation.
For once I’m happy that I own mostly low grades in my collection. I own a low grade FF 12 and a mid grade ASM 252, not worth any scammers time to reslab.
Do they know who the main culprit is?
They do. My assumption (they did not come out and confirm how they pulled the list) is that the list they provided was sourced from their submission history.
As someone who has one (I unfortunately have an ASM 194 cgc 9.8 black cat label) do you think there might come a time when having one of these scammed books might make them more collectible? This hobby does tend to make weird stuff desirable.
I don’t see it. Holding this book is quite a risk to take when you can get CGC to compensate you if you actually have an issue with your book.
So sorry to hear that! Stranger things have definitely occurred, to your point. Ultimately, I think it’s in the best interest of everyone that the books be sent back and verified for what they truly are. For you, I would just have to ask if the novelty of it (especially since it’s very easy to document the validity of the claim about the book with the info from CGC) is worth the risk of the value of the book? If potentially being out $2,500-$3,000 but having a piece of history from the hobby and a good story are worth it to you, hang onto it. At that point, the responsibility falls on you to make sure that the book is properly identified as being a scam book. So that the situation doesn’t perpetuate after the book leaves your collection.
Where did this guy get the blue labels from? Is that explained out there somewhere? I get the idea of putting a lesser book into a higher graded blue label holder, or go from purple or green to blue, but don't the blue labels have to be out there? Or did he have the ability to print his own blue labels?
He was buying, or otherwise acquiring, a blue label book and a purple/green label book, cracking both out and placing the purple/green book in the blue label well. Or that is our current assumption about how it was being done.
That would leave him with the raw blue label book and a fraudulent blue label slab with the restored or qualified book in the well with the universal label.
@@CoMoComicBooks so, he could get the raw book regraded and get the higher grade. Then his profit would be the difference between the costs of the blue label and the other non-blue label book. I guess with the volume of books involved the profit would add up.
@@TripleDAdventures yeah. More or less. He'd be out grading fees for the "good" book and the cost of the "bad" book, but would almost certainly 2-5x his money (depending on the original grade and what it was replaced with) and would then be able to double dip (less fees) with the "good" book that was removed so it's outer well could be used as a skin suit. 😬
@@CoMoComicBooks got it. Thanks for the explanation. That's a lot of work.
Out of curiosity, I cross-referenced the Silver Age books on the CGC list with a run-down of mid-60s Marvel comics containing a “Marvel Masterwork Pin-Up.” I assumed there would be quite a few of these on the list, the result of the scammer swapping out intact copies for copies with a missing pin-up.
Turned out I found only two books on the CGC list that were published with a pin-up, those being Amazing Spider-Man issue 3 (3 copies) and Fantastic Four issue 2 (2 copies).
That’s a great point! As soon as you mentioned it, those were the first books I thought about. Would make for great swap opportunities with qualified copies.
Has CBCS been affected?
Honestly from what I’ve seen there doesn’t appear to be much of a noticeable impact for them. Not sure if I’m just missing it or if they’re truly just over there doing their thing like nothing is going on in the world.
If cgc was really going to fo the right thing they wouldnt charge to regrade the affected books. I also think cgc should refund the money of the people who unknowingly bought fradulent copies
The scammer will have to be sued by CGC before CGC will issue 1 dime. Once a lawsuit and judgement, then and only then will they be able to get "their" (the buyers) money back.
If you read the statement from CGC, I did not get the feeling that they were going to be charging the end collectors for regrading. I interpreted more to the effect that they were going to compensate people to make them whole, as needed.
@@CoMoComicBooks I hope for the best for the people who got scammed. It sucks especially bad when they have pricey books
I dont see how anyone cant trusr cgc books right now
I think it’s the same way it’s always been, for me at least. I tend to be a little jaded and have trust issues, so I always thoroughly inspect any book I buy for tampering or damage. I’m also a big proponent of “Buy the book, not the grade.” This risk has always been present when buying a CGC book, but now that we know it has been done, we’re all much more cognizant of it.
I understand your livelihood is partially dependent and you can’t bash CGC. Immaculate comics is one of the heroes in the story. He exposed something that helps the community and CGC identify the security risk. Too many UA-camrs are bashing this guy and calling CGC the victim. Some CC’s make a living off of superheroes but are showing they are villains. Sad
I named no names sir. I just don’t agree that showing the entire world how to pull off a comparable scam is a heroic act, to use your words, and I 100% can bash CGC. I think that sharing that information with CGC directly would have been great, specifically to show them how easy it is to do with some fairly basic household items.
If that position makes me villainous, pass the pumpkin bombs. 🎃
@@CoMoComicBooks correct you didn’t say his name but you didn’t have to. It’s like me saying that qb for the cowboys, I don’t have to say his name for everyone to know who I’m talking about. No one makes anyone a scammer, it’s a choice. Showing the scam, gives the community and CGC the knowledge and understanding to look out for such tampering. Also makes CGC take countermeasures in the future. I prefer you be a hero in the story so put away those pumpkin bombs. I know as a dealer you are more effected then 99% of the community. My hope is justice is served, people are made whole, and this strengthens the community when all is said and done.
We only caught 1 Cgc scammer out of how many out there ? The only reason he got caught was he got too greedy
@@derekrice5203I’m pretty fortunate, as I have a very minimal inventory of slabs, and have generally had a decent mix of CGC and CBCS. I have no doubt that dealers who deal exclusively, or all but exclusively, in CGC graded books are going to face an uphill battle until the community comes to some sort of resolution. For me and my business model, I’ve always preferred to deal (primarily) in raw books. I’ve found that selling things raw and saving the time and money it takes to have something slabbed works out for me most of the time.
@@718comics Exactly this is potentially only the beginning especially if that PI looking into the situation is the FBI more books will be added
I said last night on our live show that it's completely dumb to put up what is basically a " Tutorial " video on how to do what this guy did and get away with it. While that's not what the intent of those videos was, they will definitely be used as such. Just gotta think about what you're doing before you do stuff like that.
100%! With great power, comes great responsibility.
You can stop saying "Alleged Scammer" . Felony Fraud was definitely committed here. Shockingly, No one has been identified as having committed a crime, so there is no potential defamation taking place. Call it what it "is"..because to the uninitiated your presupposing (unintentionally) that perhaps the crime isnt what it appears to be, and we know thats not true.