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I love to see David's messages and story being uplifted. He has been one of the most influential people in my life, and I've only known him for a little over a year. Such an amazing coach & human!
Beautiful approach to a sport. Zero ego, 100% curiosity. I love how he analyses the contributing elements to success and how he can stretch each of those limiters. I can relate to a lot of this and I just find his self deprecation so refreshing. It’s not false modesty. It’s just a guy who has had a crack and who’s body has done amazing things.
Perfect timing as always Rich 🤙🏼 Had the pleasure of David patting me on the back last month at Javelina on his last lap en route to his win! I was finishing my 3rd lap as I heard him and his pacer coming up behind me. Here he is running 8min/mile 97 miles in and telling me how strong I AM. Not only is an incredible athlete, he’s obviously a wonderful, gracious champion and human 🫶🏼
Speaks volumes in character. This conversation inspired me to train for my first marathon. Purely to push myself and to be part of what seems to be an amazing community.
I had the opportunity to race the Leadville 50 and 100 this year and have him fly by me on the way back on both courses and witness this huge accomplishment. He is no doubt humble and at the same time fearless. Incredible athlete and lucky enough to see him at Leadville.
Been waiting for this one! My first Leadville was in 2006 and finished 16th place, in a time that was 7 hours slower than the new record. Recently discovered SWAP podcast (much love and gratitude for David and Megan), and am so inspired by how far the sport has come...very excited to see where it continues to evolve! My body is older now, (and was in survival mode for almost a decade battling/beating chronic Lyme disease), but I have been starting to experiment with some of the new methods and am excited to see where it goes. Thank you both!
I have SO many comments on this that confirm what he's saying. I was the only swimmer in my high school that was also majorly into weightlifting and was the fastest with swimming only half the volume of my competition. I think my speed/endurance today (30 years later) over long distance is just learning to slow the power down - I barely get tired because of all the muscle I built up. On the carbs and brain - One way I can tell that I'm starting to get underfueled is aches and pains pop up. I up my carbs and they go away. I'm very fat adapted, so I think the extra carbs are going straight to mood boosting. If I want to up my Zone 2 "cruising speed", I can do hill intervals on a treadmill and have a big jump in my easy pace within a week. As I'm getting ready for a bike race, I'll do hill repeats like I'm weight lifting and those will directly correlate to faster finishing times. BUT, all this is on top of a base of years and years of volume. I don't need the volume to increase to improve. I only need to mix in more interval work to get stronger and that does the trick.
The ironic thing is that Matt Carpenter was a mad scientist himself who experimented with all kinds of things at his disposal and his record was beaten by another mad scientist who tried all kinds of things outside the box
David seems like the kindest man in the world. An incredible feat. Another incredible record was broken this summer Tara Dower broke the FKT of the Appalachian Trail. Running the 2100 mile trail in 40 days which averaged running an ultra marathon everyday. I would like to see Tara as a guest on this great channel.
50:49 Talking about characters and becoming a character. I like using the word person, persona when talking about this because the greek and latin root for it is "actor's mask". We're all acting even if we think we're "real" people. We shouldn't be afraid or think it's weird to become different actors in different situations, like talked about here. And putting a name to it is absolutely what we should do. Jimi Hendrix and the Wild Blue Angle. Rob Burbea talks about this in some of his buddhist imagination talks. We can become the role we should be when performing in a race or competition that we define as what we think would be the best, and then can come back to the character we play in day to day, and want to name them, want to become them. Great to hear this being mentioned.
Could someone smarter than me write up key takeaways from Coach Roche? I feel like I'm gonna have to rewatch this 2 or 3 times to glean the insights he is delivering here.
Seems a similar approach to Killian. Guys with a huge aerobic base for years, that then train with the right dose and timing of intensity training. It also helps that they are very lightweight but strong (without hypertrophy).
Love this guy, he is the male version of Courtney Dauwalter…. Maybe nicer. Hope this dude keeps winning and talking and joking. I’m all in on this dude ✊✊✊
I think David is so right and Rich is actually wrong. Large volume training just incurs injury. Targeted strength, hard threshold efforts, and optimized training is way way more effective.
Indeed, i checked the studies and it seems strength training is very effective. It makes sense, with running your muscles are slowly getting stronger. But when you do squats, consume protein supplements, your muscles are stronger much faster. To be honest, i hate strength training, but i started doing it anyway :)
I also used Ketone IQ for my last marathon and Ultra training. During the run the benefit I feel is simply feeling happier. But I I swear my recovery after hard sessions is way better, like stated in this conversation. Not to mention recovery after the marathon and ultra, I felt really fit the next day If it wasn't so expensive I would use it more often. For now I only use it around key sessions, and before and after the event.
1:20:11 giving here the correct answer: In Z2 to top of Z2 you are in the region of your maximum fat oxidation, yes. But at your maximum fat oxidation you still use alot more carbs then fat (depending always on the athlete how much exactly). You can also say than in Z2 or at FatMax you are burning the most substrate aerobically. So you need carbs like hell. Funny that he doesn‘t clarify this right away. Maximum Fat oxidation means in absolute terms its maximum, not in relativ terms (compared to the other substrates such as carbs for example). And to the rest: Depending on the duration your sport, the metabolic profile (muscle fiber type for ex.) easily can ouperform VO2max. This is well known and an existing consense about it. Nothing new or specacular here. Especially in ultra edurance disciplines
i'm very glad to hear a couple of f-bombs slipped through. also, i think david might be a fully fleshed-out (not a sex joke) chris traeger (parks and rec).
The camera has been on Pogacar a lot in races and I'm struggling to remember if I've ever seen him eating a bar or gel on the bike! 🤔. He can do 300w for 5 hours and basically be in zone 2 where he's burning the most amount of fat. Most stages he will average below 300w, saving his glycogen for when it's needed.
I'm trying to figure this one out too. "It's the training, the nutrition, the equipment." Agreed partially, but I'm tired of this intellectually dishonest crap and how quickly every athlete who claims it gets nailed eventually. Its a decades long schtick. Triathlon and especially ultra endurance running lack consistent testing and the passport is a real joke even now. What's worse is that a lot of us in these sports still buy these garbage lies. The grey areas, the dark areas. I'm an optimist, but get real. This wasn't even in the same area as his historical level. Doping is trivially easy with the old products still. The jerk off in journalism about this unique and scientific, revolutionary approach is old. "This approach is one of hyper precision, of spreadsheets." No one else has tried that? What a joke. View this as entertainment and nothing else.
@@dsmc80I haven't finished watching the video yet, but I agree in general. Race day testing doesn't mean much, and even in the Olympics the testing is designed to allow cheating. Primary biomarkers can be manipulated with hydration and tester has to wait until 2 hours after exercise. Secondary biomarkers are not the strongest in the literature. Lab requirements for molidustat make it easy to use. No active testing for AICAR and no legal limits in threshold document for natural substances. Whether a clean athlete at very high altitude can compete is not well studied. I suspect not because of decreased mitochondrial adaptations, but there would be increased myoglobin and respiratory muscle adaptations.
@@dsmc80also, capillary density and cardiac remodeling are so poorly understood in terms of how to optimally train that it raises more questions about altitude v EPO/molidustat.
Football player?? LOL - a kicker maybe. David is a great runner for sure. But be clear about the competitiveness of Leadville. It’s not and hasn’t been for years.
AURA: Exclusive $45-off Carver Mat at AuraFrames.com. Use code RICHROLL at checkout to save!
ON: Check out my favorite running shoes, apparel, & more 👉🏾 bit.ly/on2024
I love to see David's messages and story being uplifted. He has been one of the most influential people in my life, and I've only known him for a little over a year. Such an amazing coach & human!
Beautiful approach to a sport. Zero ego, 100% curiosity. I love how he analyses the contributing elements to success and how he can stretch each of those limiters. I can relate to a lot of this and I just find his self deprecation so refreshing. It’s not false modesty. It’s just a guy who has had a crack and who’s body has done amazing things.
Perfect timing as always Rich 🤙🏼
Had the pleasure of David patting me on the back last month at Javelina on his last lap en route to his win! I was finishing my 3rd lap as I heard him and his pacer coming up behind me. Here he is running 8min/mile 97 miles in and telling me how strong I AM. Not only is an incredible athlete, he’s obviously a wonderful, gracious champion and human 🫶🏼
Speaks volumes in character. This conversation inspired me to train for my first marathon. Purely to push myself and to be part of what seems to be an amazing community.
Crazy that he broke his collarbone just a few months before breaking the record.
I had the opportunity to race the Leadville 50 and 100 this year and have him fly by me on the way back on both courses and witness this huge accomplishment. He is no doubt humble and at the same time fearless. Incredible athlete and lucky enough to see him at Leadville.
Been waiting for this one! My first Leadville was in 2006 and finished 16th place, in a time that was 7 hours slower than the new record. Recently discovered SWAP podcast (much love and gratitude for David and Megan), and am so inspired by how far the sport has come...very excited to see where it continues to evolve! My body is older now, (and was in survival mode for almost a decade battling/beating chronic Lyme disease), but I have been starting to experiment with some of the new methods and am excited to see where it goes. Thank you both!
I've watched a lot of Rich Roll podcasts. This is my favorite one.
met david at Javalina and i can confirm he is one of the nicest kindest guys in the world
"A spiritual odyssey draped in an athletic adventure" (Rich Roll) what a quote!!
Thank you Rich! This is a conversation the world is better for having in it 🤗
Wow, this was one of the best and most interesting interviews ever made. So much to learn here.
I have SO many comments on this that confirm what he's saying. I was the only swimmer in my high school that was also majorly into weightlifting and was the fastest with swimming only half the volume of my competition. I think my speed/endurance today (30 years later) over long distance is just learning to slow the power down - I barely get tired because of all the muscle I built up. On the carbs and brain - One way I can tell that I'm starting to get underfueled is aches and pains pop up. I up my carbs and they go away. I'm very fat adapted, so I think the extra carbs are going straight to mood boosting. If I want to up my Zone 2 "cruising speed", I can do hill intervals on a treadmill and have a big jump in my easy pace within a week. As I'm getting ready for a bike race, I'll do hill repeats like I'm weight lifting and those will directly correlate to faster finishing times. BUT, all this is on top of a base of years and years of volume. I don't need the volume to increase to improve. I only need to mix in more interval work to get stronger and that does the trick.
First one to make me cry. Nice work, Rich.
The ironic thing is that Matt Carpenter was a mad scientist himself who experimented with all kinds of things at his disposal and his record was beaten by another mad scientist who tried all kinds of things outside the box
Ironic or sensible because those are the people who make breakthroughs?
David seems like the kindest man in the world.
An incredible feat.
Another incredible record was broken this summer Tara Dower broke the FKT of the Appalachian Trail. Running the 2100 mile trail in 40 days which averaged running an ultra marathon everyday.
I would like to see Tara as a guest on this great channel.
Thanks for this one, Rich. Love David and Megan. It's awesome that David is now the (humblest) GOAT!
We've been waiting for this one!
A BJ Surhoff reference! Big sports guy. Respect level increased tenfold
I thought he was gonna say Andy Van Slyke, or Kent Hrbeck. Totally agree!! Love the baseball reference.
Big dump truck energy baby!
My favorite episode, what an awesome dude!
David Roche is an amazing person - who happens to also be fast
Been waiting on this one, David had mentioned weeks ago it was coming!! He (and Megan) are tremendous
Very stoked for this convo!! Thanks David and Rich!
Best guest ever…
yess been waiting for this episode for a while ! David is the man
His voice is even faster than Rich's. He sounds sped up but Rich sounds normal.
Yep! I listen to most podcasts at 1.5X, but listen to SWAP at 1.2x. David and Megan both speak pretty fast.
Lol! SWAP is the only podcast I don’t speed up 😂
I listen to David's podcasts on 0.75 speed 🫠🫠🫠 How on earth does he talk so fast!?!?
Fuck,I thought I was the only one 😅😅😅
YOOO YOOO YOOO ITS FINALLY HERE!!!
Fantastic interview and people!
So excited to listen to this interview!
David is such a great role model.
“ All set for this Madness “ thank you RICH for this conversation with DAVID ROCHE 👍❤️
Choosing an avatar and committing to it. This stuck with me. I'm choosing mine right now. LFG.
His Zone 2 reminds me of listening to Tadej Pogacar talk about his watts at Zone 2, just insane engines on these guys.
I’ll be listening on either my long trail run or my long bike ride this weekend. Can’t wait!!
Great conversation. Thanks for sharing
Amazing. Thank you both for the amazing podcast.
Been waiting for this! Huzzah!
Was so hyped for this one 🤩
Yay! Been looking forward to this one! Huzzah!
Palm cooling works. Don’t use ice, though, cool water or a cool water bottle held in hand. Try it.
So proud of you, David! So great to hear your voice on a new platform.
Really looking forward to this one.
fascinating.. what a first try!
Been excited for this one!! Go DR!
Such an inspiring interview.
Been waiting for this!!!
EXCELLENT episode!
He is him
Huzzah!🎉
2:11:50 that spiritual journey of an ultra is what is bringing me back for more
50:49 Talking about characters and becoming a character. I like using the word person, persona when talking about this because the greek and latin root for it is "actor's mask". We're all acting even if we think we're "real" people. We shouldn't be afraid or think it's weird to become different actors in different situations, like talked about here. And putting a name to it is absolutely what we should do. Jimi Hendrix and the Wild Blue Angle. Rob Burbea talks about this in some of his buddhist imagination talks. We can become the role we should be when performing in a race or competition that we define as what we think would be the best, and then can come back to the character we play in day to day, and want to name them, want to become them. Great to hear this being mentioned.
Could someone smarter than me write up key takeaways from Coach Roche? I feel like I'm gonna have to rewatch this 2 or 3 times to glean the insights he is delivering here.
I downloaded transcript and uploaded it to ChatGPT to summarize it for me :)
Alex Pereira went from kickboxing to the UFC… the world is certainly changing likely someday ultra competitors will get their own organization🙏
Its amazing when you learn to take in carbohydrates how much longer you can keep going.
Seems a similar approach to Killian. Guys with a huge aerobic base for years, that then train with the right dose and timing of intensity training. It also helps that they are very lightweight but strong (without hypertrophy).
"Life miles count . . . . carrying a baby up the stairs counts for something..." that's beautiful
The world wanted this man to be gay. He said no thanks.
Amazing.
Love this guy, he is the male version of Courtney Dauwalter…. Maybe nicer. Hope this dude keeps winning and talking and joking. I’m all in on this dude ✊✊✊
Coach Roche!!! 👏 🎉
Hit the fricken cymbal!
I think David is so right and Rich is actually wrong. Large volume training just incurs injury. Targeted strength, hard threshold efforts, and optimized training is way way more effective.
Indeed, i checked the studies and it seems strength training is very effective. It makes sense, with running your muscles are slowly getting stronger. But when you do squats, consume protein supplements, your muscles are stronger much faster. To be honest, i hate strength training, but i started doing it anyway :)
it's out!!!
Huzzahhhh!!
Woohoo 🙂
I also used Ketone IQ for my last marathon and Ultra training. During the run the benefit I feel is simply feeling happier. But I I swear my recovery after hard sessions is way better, like stated in this conversation. Not to mention recovery after the marathon and ultra, I felt really fit the next day
If it wasn't so expensive I would use it more often. For now I only use it around key sessions, and before and after the event.
Check out KetoneAid or DeltaG. Those are true exogenous ketones. Ketone IQ is not.
My favorite part was at 1:20:55 when he said “Suck it, Peter” (to Peter Attia, in good jest of course) 😂😂
I'm playing a character" - Wow
Thank goodness I get to skip the intro. Take a page out of Rogans book and just get on with it
The Connections (2021) [short documentary] 🎉
We need to get Joey Chestnut into ultras…the king of training his stomach 😂
HuZzAh!!!
1:20:11 giving here the correct answer:
In Z2 to top of Z2 you are in the region of your maximum fat oxidation, yes.
But at your maximum fat oxidation you still use alot more carbs then fat (depending always on the athlete how much exactly).
You can also say than in Z2 or at FatMax you are burning the most substrate aerobically.
So you need carbs like hell.
Funny that he doesn‘t clarify this right away.
Maximum Fat oxidation means in absolute terms its maximum, not in relativ terms (compared to the other substrates such as carbs for example).
And to the rest:
Depending on the duration your sport, the metabolic profile (muscle fiber type for ex.) easily can ouperform VO2max. This is well known and an existing consense about it. Nothing new or specacular here.
Especially in ultra edurance disciplines
Whats his bodyweight?
Title got changed?
For the algorithm?
how much cursing and sex references were edited out?
😂😂😂 someone had to make it professional sounding!
i'm very glad to hear a couple of f-bombs slipped through. also, i think david might be a fully fleshed-out (not a sex joke) chris traeger (parks and rec).
did he really say right at the start that, "if I'm here and you have your shirt on, it's probably not a dream..." Wait, what?
The camera has been on Pogacar a lot in races and I'm struggling to remember if I've ever seen him eating a bar or gel on the bike! 🤔. He can do 300w for 5 hours and basically be in zone 2 where he's burning the most amount of fat. Most stages he will average below 300w, saving his glycogen for when it's needed.
Just take off his shirt
The peloton is clean haha, And all the kenyan marathon runners are clean ...
Aightttt…
@@Loco5919you do realise how much Kenia Athletes have been caught the last few years.....
I'm trying to figure this one out too. "It's the training, the nutrition, the equipment." Agreed partially, but I'm tired of this intellectually dishonest crap and how quickly every athlete who claims it gets nailed eventually. Its a decades long schtick. Triathlon and especially ultra endurance running lack consistent testing and the passport is a real joke even now. What's worse is that a lot of us in these sports still buy these garbage lies. The grey areas, the dark areas. I'm an optimist, but get real. This wasn't even in the same area as his historical level. Doping is trivially easy with the old products still. The jerk off in journalism about this unique and scientific, revolutionary approach is old. "This approach is one of hyper precision, of spreadsheets." No one else has tried that? What a joke. View this as entertainment and nothing else.
@@dsmc80I haven't finished watching the video yet, but I agree in general. Race day testing doesn't mean much, and even in the Olympics the testing is designed to allow cheating. Primary biomarkers can be manipulated with hydration and tester has to wait until 2 hours after exercise. Secondary biomarkers are not the strongest in the literature. Lab requirements for molidustat make it easy to use. No active testing for AICAR and no legal limits in threshold document for natural substances.
Whether a clean athlete at very high altitude can compete is not well studied. I suspect not because of decreased mitochondrial adaptations, but there would be increased myoglobin and respiratory muscle adaptations.
@@dsmc80also, capillary density and cardiac remodeling are so poorly understood in terms of how to optimally train that it raises more questions about altitude v EPO/molidustat.
He is soo tiny...
Football player?? LOL - a kicker maybe. David is a great runner for sure. But be clear about the competitiveness of Leadville. It’s not and hasn’t been for years.
Yeah Leadville is not that competitive. But Javelina on the other hand…
@@atleastIdietryingYup true that!
Finally!!!!!!👏👏👏👏👏👏❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎 Been waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!