I was 1 troop 1 Section K coy I was on that fighting patrol/probing patrol/2 section battalion attack. It was not harassing fire we were in their forwards trenches and had a 2 and a half hour battle, we had recently dropped the MLs off on Goats Ridge. Much Artillery fire from both sides but ours in predominance because we were so close to them. They bit real good and opened up from all their locations giving away their fire positions. We left a number of dead all theirs and we broke contact shouting run away run away and laughing out bolloxs off. We had 1 x sprained ankle we were so lucky. I met Stevie Groves in the Eagle a few months later and he told me he thought we had been massacred there was so much fire. The initial Argentine registered target blew up the base of the hill and it looked like the napalm strike in Apocalypse Now. Thank fck we were not there. It was a good crack. My section cdr would later win an MM a few days later. The attack on Mt.Harriet was the most successful of the war.
@@stephenrobinson1007 My knees are still good at 66 nearly 67 gonna go for a run later then the gym. Never give up. Served in uniform until 64 albeit though in a foreign army from the age of 41. I enjoyed the All Arms course and am going to see a friend (ex bootneck) in UK next month and guess what one of his buddies was on the AACC courses I took through small world. Hope you are well I found the lads of all ranks on that course to be brills.
One of the Troop NCOs who took me through training in 1971/72 was Taff Doyle who was one of those wounded on the assault at Top Malo House, a great guy & true professional !.
Terry Doyle was my Tp Sgt in 1980. Yes, top bloke and a gent to boot. he must have went ML after he took you thru training he reverted back to the PW world after 82 because of his wounds which would have prevented his climbing ability. Magazine in his smock prevent worse damage. I did hear a few dits about the AR15s not putting the Argies down quick enough.
@@chrissheppard5068 Often wondered if he managed to continue in the Corp after his wounds, so glad to hear he did, must be in his eighties now I reckon !.
@@stesco71 Cpl Terry (Taff) Doyle PW was my section commander when I joined 7 Troop M Coy 42 Cdo back in '75. Crazy runs ashore down Union Street with him and his best oppo Dave (Scotty) Scott but they were always bright and bushy tailed the next morning. I was a Kings Badgeman straight out of the box but only really started to learn anything working with Terry. To the best of my knowledge he is still with us but sadly Scotty crossed the bar a few years ago.
Terry was my Company CSM late 80’s. He had a plaque on his wall that had an M16 magazine and butt with bullet holes in them and then a round, that he had removed from his body. Next to them, in order, was a little sign reading, missed, missed, ouch!
Privileged to have many RM mates and former colleagues, worked with many and particularly pleased to have worked with former Cadre guys in the mountaineering industry, both military and civilian... Good guys..!
Full on - these guys are the real deal. Enjoyed your story telling and insight into the unit. My father was 22 here in Hereford - no doubt he'd doff his hat to these chaps. Good going. Mark
@@nomadmarauder-dw9re What are you on about? I never said I was in the regiment - that was my father. Just google Terry Jickells d..k head. I know a bit more about this world than you.
@@nomadmarauder-dw9re I know what you're driving at. I never said I was in the regiment d..k head - that was my father. Just google Terry Jickells SAS. I know a lot more about this world than you.
Available on the BBC iPlayer is the series‘Behind the Lines’ a 7 part documentary on the Artic&Mountain Warfare Cadre, one of the instructors in the series was Mac McLean, he was at Top Malo, you mentioned it at the end
The difference I believe is ML staff having the ability to assist a already basic rope trained Royals up the mountain and still fight. They will set the course to be followed.Similar I suppose to pathfinders in airborne ops.
I don't know if it's changed these days , but a bone of discontent was they weren't classed as S F and subsequently Didn't receive the higher pay . A good bunch of blokes with quite a few characters too .Especially at 45.
A lot of units in the world are for all intents and purposes SF but aren't technically defined as such on paper. It always ruffles a lot of feathers but hey ho 🙃
@@HardRoutine_TOTW This reminds me actually. I can't remember exactly what I heard as it was about 20 years ago now, televised I think somewhere, that basically said the Aussie commandos were also defined as SF in Australia. I've asked and looked about here and there a few times but not really been clear. One thing that muddles these things a lot these days is that the Americans often unofficially refer to certain units/groups in other nations as 'special operations' even when those nations don't define them as SF or use the term special operations. It's like most of us say SF, the Americans say SOF to be different but they also have their bloody Green Berets that are SF but everything else is SOF and some parts of the world have been slowly adopting the SOF terminology but it doesn't always equate with what the Americans use it for 😆what a headache.
SBS' Pasha Munro said it in so many words on a recent podcast with Phil Campion. But I've not been anywhere near that level of training so I thought it best to stay out of that discussion 😄
QPO magazine in the background, nice nod to the Dutch Corps! Edited to add: 13:28 'kinell! I thought the Cloggies and Royals got along... That Big Jan is getting chinned with a rifle butt 😧‼
Ja ik ben trouwe abbonnee van QPO. Tien jaar in Rotterdam / Kralingen gewoond ook! All the figures in white are ML2 candidates after a 200 mile patrol. The figures in Black are OPFOR and the candidates have to demonstrate their ability to resist capture. So it’s not Cloggies vs Royals. Having said that I don’t think Health & Safety Directive would still allow the rifle butts! Hard as nails those guys in their era.
We do. I worked a lot with Whisky Coy. Good blokes. All about 9 foot tall! The only bad thing is their breakfast. Cheese, bread, chocolate sprinkles….. not a full English to be had!! Tough guys, good sense of humour.
@@HardRoutine_TOTW Ik meende al een Hollands accent te horen. Maar is je Engels nou goed voor een Hollander, of is je Nederlands (erg) goed voor een Brit? Anyhoo, gaaf kanaal, maat!
ML 2 and 3 are proper hardcore. S lit of thrm go sb, but in my eyes, and many others, thry are sll but SF, but without the badge. Had a CSM that was ML3 and was a great guy, barny banicle. Also one of my training team was reccie troop, hard as nails, funny as fuck. This twas late 90s, he only retired about 17 he had an out a 30 year run. I'm sure he had not long come back from Ireland where he spent months with 14 int. Sat weeks sat in holes and barns just watching.
3 was created at the initiative of Rod Boswell after the Falklands and is the entry-level 9 week course open to all ranks after passing ML initial selection. To be considered for ML2 the candidate must of course have excelled at level 3 and minimum Corporal rank and passed Junior Commander course. After a minimum of 2 years in ML2 level and after passing senior commander course the ML can be considered for ML1 course for senior ranks in the MLs. ML1 is focused on leadership and continuation and obtaining extremely high skill levels. While severe not as much as a shock as ML2 which has the steeper learning curve and higher attrition rate. This 3,2,1 system is used across specialisation courses in the Royal Marines. But I'm not expert so happy to stand corrected on any of this.
9 months training to get Mountain leader qualified .Recce troop selected from unit on merit and skill set similar to any infantry unit in the British Army.
@@cantfindmykeys8104 Right, so there is a distinction between them? I thought Recon Operator/patrolman was its own specialization with the RMs and they serve both in unit recce platoons aswell as the BRF. That doco "Behind the lines" stated that the MAWC had changed their role from one of primarily mountain warfare to almost enirely reconnaissance.
@@The_Comedian556 it is complex and I'm no expert but from what I've understood Rod Boswell pushed for the introduction of an ML3 qualification (basic ML course of 9 weeks or so) which all recce marines will have completed as a minimum. Every Battalion level recce troop will have two ML2 qualified Marines as well. And at least two Advanced Sniper qualified marines. To get promoted into Brigade Patrol Troop (serving the entire Brigade so effectively the role M&AWc had in Falklands) you have to be either ML2 or Advanced Sniper qualified. And some are ML1 (ML Senior Commanders) or both. So those who qualify ML2 either serve at Battalion level or BPT or (to complicate matters further) nowadays in the new SRS. All this was too much detail for this video 😅
And that's not even touching on the fact that all Norway training and ML course training is conducted by ML2 and ML1s. I'm still not clear whether these instructor roles are temporary assignments while the Marine retains a position in a Recce Troop, BPT or SRS or permanent roles. I'm guessing it's pretty fluid.
@@NigelDevenish It's an honour to see you in the comments Nigel, I hope I didn't butcher the story too much. If you're ever interested in doing a deeper dive I'd be very interested to tell your story.
''Victory or Death'' 🤦🏻♂️ it's like something a young child would come up with 🤡 and beyond hysterical for a country with such a poor military record and the respect of anyone
Thanks. I've relied on the sources discussed in the final bit of the vid. If you have corrections I'd be genuinely interested to hear. This video's my most watched so I'd happily do a deeper dive version. 👍
Some legendary moustaches there😂 Good effort. Well done ML's.
I think they were mandatory in the RMs in that period 😂 Absolutely cracking look.
Whisky Coy RNLMC had some legendary Walrus 'taches I seem to recall!!
We all thought we were 70's porn stars. 😄
I was 1 troop 1 Section K coy I was on that fighting patrol/probing patrol/2 section battalion attack. It was not harassing fire we were in their forwards trenches and had a 2 and a half hour battle, we had recently dropped the MLs off on Goats Ridge. Much Artillery fire from both sides but ours in predominance because we were so close to them. They bit real good and opened up from all their locations giving away their fire positions. We left a number of dead all theirs and we broke contact shouting run away run away and laughing out bolloxs off. We had 1 x sprained ankle we were so lucky. I met Stevie Groves in the Eagle a few months later and he told me he thought we had been massacred there was so much fire. The initial Argentine registered target blew up the base of the hill and it looked like the napalm strike in Apocalypse Now. Thank fck we were not there. It was a good crack. My section cdr would later win an MM a few days later. The attack on Mt.Harriet was the most successful of the war.
It's an honour to have you in the comments Sir! Yes that bit of the clip is a bit jumbled. Thanks for this background info!
Are you the legend Shep who took my All arms course a few years later ??
Speed marching with you was an experience!😂
@@stephenrobinson1007 Yes I am that man.
“And what do we do when we get to a hill ?? “ 😂 my knees have never forgiven me !
@@stephenrobinson1007 My knees are still good at 66 nearly 67 gonna go for a run later then the gym. Never give up. Served in uniform until 64 albeit though in a foreign army from the age of 41. I enjoyed the All Arms course and am going to see a friend (ex bootneck) in UK next month and guess what one of his buddies was on the AACC courses I took through small world. Hope you are well I found the lads of all ranks on that course to be brills.
One of the Troop NCOs who took me through training in 1971/72 was Taff Doyle who was one of those wounded on the assault at Top Malo House, a great guy & true professional !.
Terry Doyle was my Tp Sgt in 1980. Yes, top bloke and a gent to boot. he must have went ML after he took you thru training he reverted back to the PW world after 82 because of his wounds which would have prevented his climbing ability. Magazine in his smock prevent worse damage. I did hear a few dits about the AR15s not putting the Argies down quick enough.
@@chrissheppard5068 Often wondered if he managed to continue in the Corp after his wounds, so glad to hear he did, must be in his eighties now I reckon !.
@@stesco71 Cpl Terry (Taff) Doyle PW was my section commander when I joined 7 Troop M Coy 42 Cdo back in '75. Crazy runs ashore down Union Street with him and his best oppo Dave (Scotty) Scott but they were always bright and bushy tailed the next morning. I was a Kings Badgeman straight out of the box but only really started to learn anything working with Terry. To the best of my knowledge he is still with us but sadly Scotty crossed the bar a few years ago.
Terry was my Company CSM late 80’s. He had a plaque on his wall that had an M16 magazine and butt with bullet holes in them and then a round, that he had removed from his body. Next to them, in order, was a little sign reading, missed, missed, ouch!
Privileged to have many RM mates and former colleagues, worked with many and particularly pleased to have worked with former Cadre guys in the mountaineering industry, both military and civilian... Good guys..!
Full on - these guys are the real deal. Enjoyed your story telling and insight into the unit. My father was 22 here in Hereford - no doubt he'd doff his hat to these chaps. Good going. Mark
Thanks mate, appreciate your comment!
@@HardRoutine_TOTW A pleasure. Take care.
What color is the boathouse?@@WyeExplorer
@@nomadmarauder-dw9re What are you on about? I never said I was in the regiment - that was my father. Just google Terry Jickells d..k head. I know a bit more about this world than you.
@@nomadmarauder-dw9re I know what you're driving at. I never said I was in the regiment d..k head - that was my father. Just google Terry Jickells SAS. I know a lot more about this world than you.
Available on the BBC iPlayer is the series‘Behind the Lines’ a 7 part documentary on the Artic&Mountain Warfare Cadre, one of the instructors in the series was Mac McLean, he was at Top Malo, you mentioned it at the end
The difference I believe is ML staff having the ability to assist a already basic rope trained Royals up the mountain and still fight.
They will set the course to be followed.Similar I suppose to pathfinders in airborne ops.
I don't know if it's changed these days , but a bone of discontent was they weren't classed as S F and subsequently
Didn't receive the higher pay . A good bunch of blokes with quite a few characters too .Especially at 45.
They did get SF pay.
Not quite right Shep, MLs get Recruitment Retention Pay ML and Para Pay.
But not SF pay.
A lot of units in the world are for all intents and purposes SF but aren't technically defined as such on paper. It always ruffles a lot of feathers but hey ho 🙃
Dutch Marines who pass ML2 course are immediately admitted into NLMARSOF (Dutch Maritime SF) where they comprise C sqn.
@@HardRoutine_TOTW This reminds me actually. I can't remember exactly what I heard as it was about 20 years ago now, televised I think somewhere, that basically said the Aussie commandos were also defined as SF in Australia. I've asked and looked about here and there a few times but not really been clear.
One thing that muddles these things a lot these days is that the Americans often unofficially refer to certain units/groups in other nations as 'special operations' even when those nations don't define them as SF or use the term special operations. It's like most of us say SF, the Americans say SOF to be different but they also have their bloody Green Berets that are SF but everything else is SOF and some parts of the world have been slowly adopting the SOF terminology but it doesn't always equate with what the Americans use it for 😆what a headache.
I knew Gordon Thompson from Glasgow who was part of that Unit. Still as tough outside than what he was in the Unit. RIP.
Good research , thoroughly enjoyable 👍🙂
Thank you, much appreciated!
ML Mountain Leader, used to be known as CL Cliff Leader.
There a a lot of MLs that go on to be SBS and they all say that ML training is by far a harder course than SF training.
SBS' Pasha Munro said it in so many words on a recent podcast with Phil Campion. But I've not been anywhere near that level of training so I thought it best to stay out of that discussion 😄
I know a good few that have done both. All say ML2 is harder. Even the E&E phase is longer than SF
Shout out to my close friend Steve Groves RIP ✝
As above, worked with Steve in 42Cdo. We were also in the Cambrian March team together for two years on the trot.
Steve was next to me when he was shot at Top Marlow House. A lovely guy he passed a few years ago
With what Starmer has done by giving away the Chagos Islands I have no doubt the Argies will be emboldened to give it another go
So: “Victory or Death or Surrender”
Yes it seems so 😉
QPO magazine in the background, nice nod to the Dutch Corps!
Edited to add: 13:28 'kinell! I thought the Cloggies and Royals got along... That Big Jan is getting chinned with a rifle butt 😧‼
Ja ik ben trouwe abbonnee van QPO. Tien jaar in Rotterdam / Kralingen gewoond ook! All the figures in white are ML2 candidates after a 200 mile patrol. The figures in Black are OPFOR and the candidates have to demonstrate their ability to resist capture. So it’s not Cloggies vs Royals. Having said that I don’t think Health & Safety Directive would still allow the rifle butts! Hard as nails those guys in their era.
We do. I worked a lot with Whisky Coy. Good blokes. All about 9 foot tall! The only bad thing is their breakfast. Cheese, bread, chocolate sprinkles….. not a full English to be had!!
Tough guys, good sense of humour.
@@HardRoutine_TOTW Ik meende al een Hollands accent te horen. Maar is je Engels nou goed voor een Hollander, of is je Nederlands (erg) goed voor een Brit? Anyhoo, gaaf kanaal, maat!
@@Korporaal1 geboren en getogen Nederlander in 2003 naar Engeland verhuisd voor werk toen getrouwd en blijven hangen. Dank je stay tuned!
Big RESPECT for Big Jan 🇳🇱💯
Ja inderdaad! 🇳🇱
RLC Chef's course is the hardest course - no-one's ever passed it!
😂
ML 2 and 3 are proper hardcore. S lit of thrm go sb, but in my eyes, and many others, thry are sll but SF, but without the badge.
Had a CSM that was ML3 and was a great guy, barny banicle. Also one of my training team was reccie troop, hard as nails, funny as fuck. This twas late 90s, he only retired about 17 he had an out a 30 year run. I'm sure he had not long come back from Ireland where he spent months with 14 int. Sat weeks sat in holes and barns just watching.
What's the difference between ML 1, ML 2, and ML 3?
3 was created at the initiative of Rod Boswell after the Falklands and is the entry-level 9 week course open to all ranks after passing ML initial selection. To be considered for ML2 the candidate must of course have excelled at level 3 and minimum Corporal rank and passed Junior Commander course. After a minimum of 2 years in ML2 level and after passing senior commander course the ML can be considered for ML1 course for senior ranks in the MLs. ML1 is focused on leadership and continuation and obtaining extremely high skill levels. While severe not as much as a shock as ML2 which has the steeper learning curve and higher attrition rate. This 3,2,1 system is used across specialisation courses in the Royal Marines. But I'm not expert so happy to stand corrected on any of this.
@@HardRoutine_TOTW I must have got them mixed up, it's been a while.
Cool channel.
Thanks for watching!
‼️‼️ Good Times ‼️‼️
What’s the difference between Mountain Leaders and Recce/patrol Troop?
9 months training to get Mountain leader qualified .Recce troop selected from unit on merit and skill set similar to any infantry unit in the British Army.
@@cantfindmykeys8104 Right, so there is a distinction between them? I thought Recon Operator/patrolman was its own specialization with the RMs and they serve both in unit recce platoons aswell as the BRF. That doco "Behind the lines" stated that the MAWC had changed their role from one of primarily mountain warfare to almost enirely reconnaissance.
Recce Tp, has a lot more make up and hair gel than the ML's
@@The_Comedian556 it is complex and I'm no expert but from what I've understood Rod Boswell pushed for the introduction of an ML3 qualification (basic ML course of 9 weeks or so) which all recce marines will have completed as a minimum. Every Battalion level recce troop will have two ML2 qualified Marines as well. And at least two Advanced Sniper qualified marines. To get promoted into Brigade Patrol Troop (serving the entire Brigade so effectively the role M&AWc had in Falklands) you have to be either ML2 or Advanced Sniper qualified. And some are ML1 (ML Senior Commanders) or both. So those who qualify ML2 either serve at Battalion level or BPT or (to complicate matters further) nowadays in the new SRS. All this was too much detail for this video 😅
And that's not even touching on the fact that all Norway training and ML course training is conducted by ML2 and ML1s. I'm still not clear whether these instructor roles are temporary assignments while the Marine retains a position in a Recce Troop, BPT or SRS or permanent roles. I'm guessing it's pretty fluid.
Good video
Thanks buddy!
Get a grip. 22SAS Mountain Troop on Fortuna Glacier on South Georgia was an absolute disaster !
You've obviously not actually watched the vid? It's nothing to do with SAS on South Georgia.
@@HardRoutine_TOTW Too ashamed to cover it ?
I think my old friend Frazier Haddow was in that group. If anyone knows please reply.
I can confirm he indeed was. I occupied Fraz on our re-visit last September.
@@NigelDevenish i served with him in the (US) 2d Marine Regiment. What a terrific guy!
@@NigelDevenish It's an honour to see you in the comments Nigel, I hope I didn't butcher the story too much. If you're ever interested in doing a deeper dive I'd be very interested to tell your story.
They should've used the Cadre in South Georgia instead of the SAS.
Very interesting point. I'm currently researching a vid about the South Georgia actions... Watch this space!
@@HardRoutine_TOTW The SAS were very wank in South Georgia.
FFS! It’s pronounced ‘cah- der’… not ‘cad-rey’.
Roger
You mean cadre? One can pronounce it as "cad-ray". Countless people pronounce it as "cad-ray".
@@zoltancsikos5604card-ray is a perfectly fine pronunciation. It's like the Pand S in corps isn't said. It's the core.
Give him time and he will say Forty, Forty Two and Forty five commando !
All depends on ones breeding old sausage
A couple of two word phrases you never want to hear from a distance,
Brew on?
Ayo Ghorkali! and,
Fix bayonets...
😂🤘
😂
Great vid other than being dressed to be outside but sitting on your (or a hotel) bed 🤨 You need a new 'studio' 😂
Hahaha it's my guest-room
''Victory or Death'' 🤦🏻♂️
it's like something a young child would come up with 🤡
and beyond hysterical for a country with such a poor military record and the respect of anyone
fuck me, you need to listen to the actual tales of those there and totally readapt your scrip as you as so far south you're in the Antarctic!
Thanks. I've relied on the sources discussed in the final bit of the vid. If you have corrections I'd be genuinely interested to hear. This video's my most watched so I'd happily do a deeper dive version. 👍