Catch Wrestling vs Jiu-Jitsu: What's the Difference?
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- Опубліковано 19 кві 2022
- Black Flag Submission Company head coach, Gilbert Olivas, breaks down the differences between catch wrestling and jiu-jitsu.
Filmed/edited by: Sean A. Malone - / @ishootfights4962
Academy:
Black Flag Submission Co. - www.blackflagjiujitsuclub.com/ - Спорт
I dislike the "oh that's illegal" response to anything that beats a jiu jitsu technique. I'm a jiu jitsu practitioner but I happily incorporate anything that works into my repertoire.
I also hate to be only guarded by the rules.
If a new strong spazzy whitebelt comes to the gym, who dosen't know the rules or just dosen't have the coordination yet to not accidentally head butting or kicking your head, what you gonna do? Get hurt and cry?
Sometimes bjj player doing that to themself. You are triangled, you stand up to improve your angle and to make it looser, to uncomprimising their posture. And they still trying to choke you out. Like bitch, i will fall on your neckbone if I pass out.
Just let it go, and do something else. You don't have to be married to your submission until death do you part.
Rules don't save you from accidents and cheating.
How you grapple with a newcomer who may or may not things that bjj and mma is the same thing is the honest expression of what is actually martial about your grappling art.
@@katokianimation If someone hurts me mid roll (clashes heads, whacks me etc) all I expect is "sorry", a basic acknowledgement that hey, I realise I did that and it was unintentional, it's absolutely fine as long as there's sorry or some form of acknowledgement, if not then I'll up the tempo.
I was watching a purple belt (will be a brown soon looking at his maturity) at our gym as he was rolling and I got some white belts to watch and I talked them through his options as he dominated a blue belt without getting tired, his willingness to transition rather than cling on to a position, his constant probing for weaknesses without committing to a particular attack, never relinquishing control to attempt a submission that wasn't assured. That's how you get good I told them, when you don't over commit to a position or submission, when you're relaxed and reacting to your opponent and asking questions of them in order to maintain or upgrade your position.
The submissions are easy when you're genuinely in control of your opponent.
As for the illegal/not illegal stuff, I incorporate catch wrestling and judo into my game, I'm a fan of the basics and being on top when possible
Exactly what I just said, which in my opinion is what makes bjj superior to all the sisters grappling arts..
so in short pure bjj isn't that good, noted
@@eugeneflores6153 jiu jitsu is excellent, it's just important to add stuff to the arsenal and not turn it into a spectator sport.
Judo neutered itself in order to become a spectator sport and as a consequence the sport suffered and its now less utilised in mma
Definitely. knowing two grappling disciplines is always better than knowing just one.
Yes indeed!
I'm a bjj Instructor and I do not believe any grappling styles should be separated
Judo and Catch wrestling are my 2
Always best to respect all grappling arts and learn what works for whatever you use it for
Gi's are expensive heavy and a pain inthe ass to wash especially during winter.
No gi is cheaper gear easier to was and u can just chuck on a hoodie or a 2x XL tshirt after training
been in nightclub security for 25 years, so 1 mans professional opinion...for a 'real fight'
#1:muay thai...all fights start on your feet...emphasis on punches and elbows...rarely would i ever want to deliberately lift a leg off the ground and give up footing to use a knee or kick in a real fight
#2:whatever grappling system you want / is available near you, emphasize take downs and take down defense...then KISS (keep it simple stupid), overly complex subs and chokes rarely have time to work in the heat of 'real' battle
#3:be ready to use every 'dirty' trick you can learn...there's a reason they're illegal in competition; They Work..ask me how i know :wink:
Agree.
About #2 - IMO That's a real problem of nowaday BJJ. I am in BJJ for 8 years now and I started with Boxing many years ago, then Muay Thai. It's about ~1 year of doing wrestling now and ONLY in BJJ I see so many new fancy looking and shitty working techniques, sweeps etc.
BJJ is great but before You go into a world of complex fighting and getting "your" system/style - You need to be strong & proficient user of all the basics in BJJ.
I think Greco Roman, emphasis on takedowns and control, and boxing is better but yeah.
I'd say greco roman is #1 for control and takedown defence, if a muay thai guy gets tackled he is finished, likewise a bjj guys is probably not gonna be good on his feet, also both mauy thai and bjj can only really manage people via injuring them via hard strikes or submission, wheras greco roman can manage people without needing to injure them, after greco i'd say boxing for the bob and weave which can dodge dangerous attacks, then BJJ for being comfortable int he worst case scenario (someone on top of you)
so basically, boxing + some elbows?
Thanks for sharing your views based upon real experiences. I always listen carefully to those that “have actually been there”. 👌🙏
Trap! Lock! Submit! … that’s it! Grappling is king
exactly man. That's the order. Lock him in and work it to get the submission.
different styles of grappling are no different from different languages within the same category of languages: for example, within Roman languages, you have French, Italian and Portuguese ... sometimes there are clear similarities, often there are unique words or expressions or vocabulary etc. but in the end the meaning of those words is the same, and grappling techniques are no different: an armbar is an armbar (juji gatame, armbar, it doesn't matter how you call it, same technique), a choke is a choke and a hip throw is a hip throw ... it doesn't really matter whether it comes from catch wrestling or judo or jiu-jitsu, as long as the meaning behind the technique is understood, the technique will be communicated and will be effective ...
Ngl catch wrestling and bjj look very similar even tho bjj came from judo
in real fighting the catch wrestling is superior there are takedowns that make the difference ... and by using wrestling + latwei, you become a complete fighter in a real fight ....
Latwei...lol training that doesn't make you a complete fighter just makes you concussed
I also like how they also prioritize having and learning how to get good positioning in catch wrestling
I also like how they also prioritize having and learning how to get good positioning in catch wrestling
don't forget training cardio, then guns and knives for safest option bro
💯 Catch blows BJJ out of the water for practical self defense.
The origins of Wiggan coming initially from the British Merchant Navy having fights in every port and picking up new moves from around the world is probably why it is superior to BJJ... I mean just look at Sakuraba...how many Gracies they threw at him and he just dominated all of them.
And then the whole Khabib and Fedor Russian sorta Mongolian Persian origins...mutating from Greco Roman, one could argue that except for Muay Thai, that most Asian martial arts are inferior to Western styles, even the Gracie offshoot.
Your not even allowed to smash the dudes head from Guard onto the rubber mat!!!
I agree with you for the most part.
Except that Persian/Iranian style of wrestling has nothing to do with Greco-Roman wrestling. Iranian wrestling is Pahlevani wrestling which is the father of Catch wrestling. Persians introduced their Pahlevani style to India, whom introduced it to the British conquerers centuries later. Iranian style is also the father of Sambo wrestling; both directly via wrestling traditions of Caucasus region, and indirectly via Catch.
At it's roots British/Irish Catch wrestling is just amalgamation of Pahlevani wrestling, and traditional local village wrestling styles of Ireland and England.
As for Greco-Roman wrestling, it's neither Greek or Roman. It's actually a French style of wrestling with only few hundred years of history. Pahlevani wrestling predates Greco-Roman by millenias. It has at least 2500 years of proven history; and most likely even more.
Greco-Roman Wrestling is a French neoclassical interpretation of orthopale as described by Plato in the Republic. Jean Exbrayat developed the rules in 1848 taught it to Napoleonic soldiers and called it Lutte Française et lutte à mains plates to distinguish it from Boxe Anglaise, Boxe Française et la lutte avec frappe such as Laamb. When the Italian Basilio Bartolotti started teaching he advertised it as la lutte gréco-romaine since its rules are based on orthopale. The reason the style spread quickly was Napoleon had a large empire with soldiers from across the empire, so after the war not only did the various militaries still teach it in their academies, but it also became a prize fighting.
jutaijutsu the best
Don’t forget how Carlos Gracie was defeated by Santino Dos Santos (catch wrestler) and so Carlos got a mob and attacked home with pipes and broke his arm to end his career. If Dos Santos didn’t succumb to Gracie thug violence, Catch would be all the hype now and not Brazilian judo.
I think you are confusing sport BJJ (complete bullshit that has nothing to do with fighting) with actual Gracie Jiu-jitsu. They aren't close to the same thing. Actual Jiu-jitsu is about what works in a real fight when people are throwing real strikes. Not what works in an IBJJF competition under strict rules. The only problem I have with catch wrestling is its over dependence on pain compliance to get a tap when no actual structural damage is being done.
Catch wrestling defeated actual gracie jiu-jitsu
Rufino Dos Santos
ua-cam.com/video/_yb1Hzx9qQQ/v-deo.html
Kazushi Sakuraba
ua-cam.com/video/aCai00QBEl4/v-deo.html
@@faeking2223 I've seen those. I watched Sak doing his thing live. I also watched Josh Barnett defeat Dean Lister. Do I need to post the hundreds of times catch wrestlers have lost to BJJ guys? All of my points still stand cherry picking notwithstanding.
@@dragonballjiujitsu You complain of cherry picking then turn around and cherry pick. Your argument was that it wasn't "real jiu jitsu" an no true Scotsman fallacy then when provided with evidence of catch wrestling beating "real jiu jitsu" you make excuses and cope.
tsk tsk
@@faeking2223 spare me your college debating class bullshit.
"I think you are confusing sport BJJ (complete bullshit that has nothing to do with fighting) with actual Gracie Jiu-jitsu. They aren't close to the same thing. Actual Jiu-jitsu is about what works in a real fight when people are throwing real strikes. "
This is the argument put forward.
Now in order to debunk it one would have to provide examples of "actual gracie jiu-jitsu" getting beat by catch wrestling. defeating your argument about "Actual Jiu-jitsu is about what works in a real fight when people are throwing real strikes."
So, two examples were provided of "actual garcie jiu-jitsu" from actual gracies getting beaten by catch wrestling you cry about cherry picking when that was the conditions needed to disprove your point.
BJJ is not good. When you look into the Gracies and the origins of BJJ you find out about Carlos Gracie (Brother of Helio Gracie) trained in Catch Wrestling.... The fact they use Catch Wrestling moves and rename them is embarrassing... Twister, Kimura, Triangle Choke, 50/50 Guard, Body Triangle and more. Instead of copying moves they should've worked on Takedowns being as that's not a strong point of BJJ.
I love you catch guys, you can't be more wrong. GEORGE Gracie (brother of Carlos and Helio, only other Gracie brother who still has a strong lineage) and his nephew ROLLS Gracie were the only 2 Gracie's who cross trained with lutadors when Carlos was active. The Gracie's stole from Kodakan Judo. Kimuras were taken from Judo (the proper term in Judo is gyaku ude-garami not a double wrist lock) it was made famous when Masahiko Kimura used it to incapacitate Helio, Judo also has extensive use of triangles (sankaku jime), leg locks were definitely the only thing seen as dirty stuff Catch Wrestlers, or more aptly, "lutadors" or luta livre practitioners (commonly called Brazilian Catch Wrestling by folks like you) did. But unlike catch/luta guys, yes the Gracie's/BJJ guys took what beat them and added it into their system. In judo body triangles are called do-jime and are illegal which is why you are confused that they are "catch wrestling" and not judo, as the Gracies learned proper Judo before the sportification. Eddie Bravo is the only BJJ guy I know who heavily endorses the Twister. Same with Ryan Hall and 50/50 guard. Both acknowledge where they picked up their influences. That's how martial arts should work. Instead, you catch guys just cry about BJJ while BJJ/Judo/Sambo are producing people at the top level..
No matter how you cut, Kazushi Sakuraba and Josh Barnett are the two big catch wrestlers of the modern era compared to the plethora of guys who are accomplished BJJ black belts and won countless championships in MMA. Since UFC 1 when Royce beat Ken, BJJ has bested Catch.
@@andrewsimcox5507
I know Kazushi sakuraba and josh Barnett and discover that they are catch wrestlers. Now I have a video of them in my watch history list. But to break this to you, it’s a very underrated martial art and bjj is way more popular than judo it self. Secondly, i learners that bjj is a hybrid martial art and is more advanced than regular japanese jiu jit su, not only because of borrowed moves from catch wrestling, but also hello Gracie makes his own moves and make jiu jitsu a place for little people. Just because it’s popular, that doesn’t means that it’s useful, the Gracie family are the ones who brings out bjj everywhere and beats Bruce lee to it. Speaking of using catch wrestling moves against catch wrestlers, here is this.
ua-cam.com/video/_I1vvjkZDt4/v-deo.html
And read my comment from this video and see how the UA-camr reply
And lastly, this will trigger you with this quote I’m going to show this to you,since you look like an East Asian worshipper because you think that East Asian martial arts are the best.
“Kazushi Sakuraba betray his own race” how about that?
@@andrewsimcox5507 Royce vs Shamrock
.. wear the Gi was ok to wear but Wrestling shoes were classed as a weapon.... Then Royce used his Gi to choke Ken Shamrock..... Excuses. Also the Gracies admit that they got the "Kimura" from the Judoka/Catch wrestler (Who had his own Catch Wrestling promotion).... He even said it was a Double Wristlock, also there's many more moves that BJJ copy and then do them poorly, kinda pathetic. There's no foot work or understanding of grappling, you don't even do Dragon Sleepers yet... Basic BJJ 😂.
Also Catch has beat BJJ for a long time especially with certain Brazilian Catch Wrestlers, even with the Constant Last min stipulations 😂.
Also Eddie Bravo's 'Lockdown' is actually a Grapvine... Another moves you guys steal then rename 😂.
I know a lot about Catch and BJJ and you already know i saw through your lies. Everything I've said can be fact checked. Look up yhe hostory of the Gracoes and look at ALL the EXCUSES they give when they lose, they have no HONOR and are Disgraceful. Look up Billy Robinson Double Wristlock.... look at the difference and how far behind you Copy Cats are 😂.
BJJ is a Grappling style which is Notorious for having rubbish Takedowns and still don't understand Leg locks and Simple Toe holds.... PooJitsu 😂.
It depends. In catch wrestling they were awarded for maintaining top position, so their guard game was not very developed. If the BJJ guy pulls guard the Catch guy can have problems.
But overall I think BJJ is better cuz Catch they say Catch is better and only do Catch, while BJJ they say BJJ is better and do everything, Catch, Wrestling, Sambo, Judo. BJJ guys care much more about winning than proving their martial art is better. No gi BJJ is the richest grappling style cuz of that. They have every thing from every other martial art.
@@tiocroc4814 than according to your logic, mma or Krav Maga is better that Karate, or boxing.