Something's Not Adding Up? - The Acolyte Season 1 Eps 4 Reaction
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2024
- Jay and Adam react, review, riff, and rate the fourth, hol' up a minute, episode of Star Wars The Acolyte.
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The flashback episode is presented through Osha’s perspective & memory. The Mae in the flashbacks seems partially built by real memories, but also possibly a narrative that the Jedi fed her to reduce the trauma around what really happened? Like, I wouldn’t be shocked to find out Osha started the fire/threatened to kill her sister/etc… & when Mae fell the Jedi thought “Welp, the good one died, let’s try to fix the bad one by convincing her she was always the good one.”
that sounds like quite the reach >.>
@@kenaletooh I believe this show runner would do it. It is a terrible idea and makes for a stupid story. Completely what I expect.
"That teeth got helmet." 😄
“I am Yord” in the South Park voice is the single greatest meme to come from this show calling it now.
Ya ya ya
the resident jedi hotboy
Mae said that all that walking got her to come to new conclusions. She only found out that Osha was alive just before they left that planet and went to "unalive" Kalnacca. She really hadn't had time to process it, and during her walk to Kalnacca's place, she mulled everything over in her mind and came to her decision. It only seems odd to us because they didn't show the entire several hour trek, but all of her anger and quest for vengeance included the death of Osha, and now that she's alive...yeah some of that anger went away and instead...perhaps joy that her twin is still alive has overwhelmed her.
It's also interesting because Qimir (whether or not he is the bad guy or just working for him) has been really pushing for her to keep moving and was against her stopping to take a moment. He likely sensed her doubt, or anticipated the effect Osha being alive would have on Mae, and didn't want to give her any time to herself to contemplate her actions/motivations.
I also think we will have a different perspective of young Mae after another flashback. For one, I don't think she was trying to hurt or kill Osha; and never meant to start a fire. Mae knows something when she confronts Osha (before the fire) because she says "We're stuck here now." I think Mae threatens to kill Osha as a scare tactic to stay in that room. It's possible Mae was instructed (by Mother Koril) to not let Osha leave because they were going to stop the Jedi.
Seems like simple people have no problems accepting this ..
Normal people realize she still killed two jedi ... any future she could have with her sister is gone now ... she is accountable for her actions .... nothing makes it ok even a sith lying ....
She is still a monster killing innocent people.. but they will expect us to forgive her 😅😂😅
@@Bidenmytime Well, she killed one Jedi (and we don't know if that Jedi is innocent). Do you have the same problem with "there is still good in him" Vader after he looked little kids in the eyes and sliced them in half? Can Mae be forgiven as long as she immediately dies?
@@Bidenmytime She killed one Jedi. The other committed suicide. She may have some legal repercussions from that, but they'd be less than murder.
As for that one murder she is responsible for, she states in the episode that after she surrenders she intends to trade information about her master to the Jedi in exchange for leniency.
(and depending on what actually happened to the witches that make these 4 Jedi so remorseful, it may further help her case-though not absolve her of all consequences, of course).
I think Sol is the most emotionally mature Jedi that we’ve seen. I like him a lot.
It's clear that Episode 3 is Osha's point if view. That episode shows Mae as this psychopath when we know from episode one she isn't. She could have killed the father in the canteen but choose not to when she saw the child. Mae looks happy when she first saw Osha too.
Sure it is, thats why we see Sol in the forest if it's from OSHA pov. Someone, she couldn't see. O wait it wasn't in pov mode yet ? Sure
@@MrCurlykid1 stop reaching.
Not only do we see him, we hear what he says. So either OsHA did too or the POV is BS
@@MrCurlykid1we don’t see the episode through Osha’s eyes; it’s more her memory of how things went down
@@seangargan again, how does she have memory of what someone said she couldn't see or hear.
This show made Jay look upon a ship he actually doesn’t like. They have committed one of the gravest crimes. At least we still have a Wookiee Jedi that can join the team…Oh NOOOO
Seems to be the same ship from the first episode. So I guess the crime is finding a bad angle of a ship Jay already likes. ;)
@@The2ndQuest Or just getting a better look at a design that seemed good, but maybe juuuust didn’t have enough to hold up as a repeating vessel. Some designs work as a strong silhouette, and just don’t hit right when you see the details.
@@JonathanMartinez-ei4up It's possible- but it is also quite common for a ship design to have several striking silhouettes from some angles, then have a couple bad angles where it doesn't look good at all.
Happens quite a bit with starships in Star Trek- usually the most popular ones (like the Enterprise refit from the films) tend to be the ones with the fewest bad angles (if they have any to begin with).
Though, of course, some of that can sometimes be a matter of opinion (for instance, some people love Voyager, but I find it feeling too round-edged, but there are a couple angles of the shop that can still make it look nice to my eye) and that's fine too.
In this case, I suspect the detachable shuttle isn't as strong when seen in direct profile on its own (unlike its earlier appearance), but looks much better from behind on its own or from the side while attached to the hyperdrive section.
I very much agree with the point that Mae's choice came out of left field and felt a bit out of place. But I also wanted to commend Jay's point on trying to find something to enjoy in the show even if it's not fully jiving. What I really appreciate about these reactions as a whole is the honesty of opinions but also the choice to be positive. This show has really brought out a truly awful side of Star Wars fans, with so many putting each other down over different opinions and using it as a means of bullying over the internet and I really appreciate Jay and Adams positivity and their commitment to the humorous bits as well as fostering such a wonderful group of peaches that I am thankful to be a part of.
I think that bit where Mae is just kinda sitting there looking pensive was supposed to be the show telling us she might change her mind. I think they should've added just a smidge more of the actual 'conflict' so that it felt a bit more natural to see her come to the conclusion.
When Osha, had a vision of Mae on the planet she crash landed on. One things that Mae tell Osha is that she going to kill them all. But it's not Mae that talking. Her eyes rolls black as if possessed. I'm wondering if it's Mae under that mask?
Mae said that all that walking got her to come to new conclusions. She only found out that Osha was alive just before they left that planet and went to "unalive" Kalnacca. She really hadn't had time to process it, and during her walk to Kalnacca's place, she mulled everything over in her mind and came to her decision. It only seems odd to us because they didn't show the entire several hour trek, but all of her anger and quest for vengeance included the death of Osha, and now that she's alive...yeah some of that anger went away and instead...perhaps joy that her twin is still alive has overwhelmed her.
Right on. Criticism is fine. Attacking people over opinions is not.
Made sense to me because I don’t think she was ever that devoted to the Sith to begin with. She’s only attacking Jedi she has a personal vendetta against, she disobeys her master’s orders by using weapons, and when Qimir starts reciting the Sith Code she cuts him off.
The thing is she was violent with Osha but she was also pathologically dependent on her, and with her coven gone Osha is the only family she has left. Part of the Dark Side is being possessive of those you care about. If this is how she can possess Osha, she’s gonna do it.
Mae being surprised that her sister was a Jedi is because, if you remember in ep 2, she thought she was DEAD.
The emphasis wasn't put on her being alive though. If she's alive her having undergone jedi training should be the least surprising outcome in the world. They would have been there to take her in in the aftermath of her entire coven (for lack of a better term) dying, and she had expressed an interest in wanting to be a jedi in the flashback. Next episode is supposed to be Mae's flashback, and I expect we are going to see similar events to episode 3 but with marked differences (like her not proclaiming that she'll kill Osha, and that she didn't actually start the potentially deadly fire). I still wish episode 3 had done a much better job of establishing it was from Osha's POV if that does happen though.
@@earlmason1954 Not if Mae thought the events would have guaranteed to turn her against the Jedi.
I'm wondering if Mae has a spit personality. We saw in Osha vision of Mae as a young girl her rolling up and turning black. I'm wondering if Mae is the under that black mask?
I also think that she was watching Qimir to see his reaction to what she said, much like he did shortly thereafter when he mentioned Sol.
@@Madame702I was thinking there was a "Fight Club" scenario with the twins. I also keep thinking Trinity will be the Sith. But I never thought of what you said, you could be absolutely right.
I feel like some of the weakness in this show's story is the editing of scene order and how that impacts the pacing. And some of those decisions feel very much in post-production rather than written that way initially.
I feel like there's still the perspective of Mae's childhood that helps inform her later turn away from the Master that would have been a better set up for this time.
I would not doubt some people coming up with a different scene order for this season that makes it all jive a little better.
I think it was Nerdy Nightly that brought up, if this were binge watched rather than weekly, it might be better.
But I agree that the pacing (and some of the writing) is a bit wonky. It's not necessarily bad, but it makes it fall well short of great. And unless it really really sticks the landing, I'm not sure it'd be worth a re-watch to find out.
Every episode someone says something that contradicts with something either they said or someone else said previously. Or they explain things when the person they explain too should already know it. Making it obvious they are doing this to inform the audience.I would call it bad and rushed writing.
Best Characters From The Acolyte
1. Smilo Ren/Qimir
2. Sol
3. Aniseya
4. Mae (older)
5. Osha
6. Yord
Charlie from Emergency Awesome is correct. Yord is comparable to Syril in Andor. Uptight and always plays by the book. I don’t care for Osha and Jecki’s lesbian romance. So to differentiate Mae from Osha, Amandla wears similar wigs but Osha’s hair is shorter. Mae’s hair is shorter at the front but longer in the back. Or they can use one wig and attach extensions on the back for Mae’s hair.
Almost every male SW fan wants a character who looks like a badass and wants him to use a lightsaber like a badass which includes a man child like Star Wars Theory who wants Revenge of the Sith be redone 100 more times. Male SW fans were jizzing who Marrok would turn out to be. That’s all male SW fans wants. They want lightsaber duels and the character looks cool doing it. Preferably a white guy like Hayden and they want him to twirl a lightsaber like *Carly* *King* and Ray Park. Carly King is loving The Acolyte. Let’s not hate her for enjoying it.
*Sister* *Sage:* Ryan is the first natural-born superhero. And his brand needs to reflect that. He’s not one of Vought’s lab rat freaks. He was chosen - by fate, God, whatever- to be the one who saves the world.
*Homelander:* Yes. But let’s not forget why he is special. Shall we? He’s my son. Chosen by God, sure, but, uh… made by me.
*Sister* *Sage:* The chosen one narrative only works if he stands alone. Harry Potter. Neo. Luke Skywalker. Hollywood’s trained people to fall in love with *white* *boy* *lone* *saviors.* So, America will want to fall in love with Ryan.
Technically, Luke isn’t the Chosen One but he was the reason why Anakin killed Palpatine (or supposedly if you ignore Episode IX). All this bring balance to the Force is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. That explanation of the Force needing light and dark is so vague and esoteric. To me, Luke was the hero of the Original Trilogy because he could’ve killed his dad but he chose not to. Or you can argue Vader pulled back but *love* from a father and son was the real hero of the OG Trilogy.
Whining about lore breaking….
They showed fire in space!
Mae & Osha undermines Anakin’s birth!
Ki-Adi-Mundi broke TPM’s canon!
Google search Star Wars plot holes from Yoda training Obi-Wan and not Qui-Gon to Leia seeing her dead mother to having complete amnesia for C-3PO and R2-D2. Why did Obi-Wan take 3 years to send Luke to Yoda? How come the Millennium Falcon wasn’t properly scanned? Vader can’t sense that’s his daughter he’s torturing and had captured twice? Why did Yoda give up so easily in ROTS when he already had the higher ground on Sidious? Why did it take a year to rescue Han from Jabba’s palace?
It’s George Lucas making up stuff along the way. George has broke his own canon by adding characters that weren’t there. Ahsoka was the biggest unnecessary addition and Dave Filoni sure loves his baby girl, his waifu. Anakin wasn’t ranked Master yet and he still had his own padawan. She’s basically Rey before Rey. The closest to having live action Mara Jade. Ahsoka was hated early on. Then The Clone Wars got better and now she’s even more beloved than Leia and Padmé.
Star Wars is not high art. There’s going to be bozo writing like how Jar Jar keeps getting promoted for higher government jobs. Or how Obi-Wan changes his first name to Ben but keeps his last name and hides Vader’s son in Anakin’s home planet with Ani’s own stepbrother and wife while Luke still uses the same last name. So much inconsistencies in the writing dating back to A New Hope.
Star Wars is not coming from Coppola, Scorsese, or Nolan. It’s not Oppenheimer. Treat it like the next Jurassic movie. High expectations is why Star Wars gets judged so harshly compared to something like Star Trek when all Star Wars is involves space monks/samurais with telekinesis and laser swords.
Okay, but just as you JUST criticized Lucas and Filioni and their writing.... We can criticize this show runner and her writers without you falling back into "it's not Oppenheimer" defense, right? Right?
We can say that's it dumb to tease a Wookie Jedi and then kill him off screen without expecting it to be Quentin Tarantino, right? We can expect basic setup and payoff? Right?
Lashy's brain malfunctioned @ 3:10 and now I have spilled my coffee while laughing at him.
I think Mae’s turn in this makes more sense if one examines it through a couple lenses:
1. The scene of her setting the fire and saying “I’ll kill you” was not actually her. She was possessed, or it was an implanted force vision for Osha at someone else’s doing, something like that. The show, as y’all acknowledged, is holding back information and presenting part of the tale so far as “unreliable narrator” stuff in some fashion.
2. The show gave us a glimpse of Osha doing almost the same thing with the little bird thing - holding it in place with the force. The difference was in the music sting and in how Osha reacted to the moment in the show.
3. Mae’s adult motivation has always been about avenging her sister. Once she found out her sister was still alive at the end of ep 2 (the last time we saw her in the present before this episode) everything changed for her. The struggle (and I understand this being a bit of a beef, personally) narratively surrounding us, as the audience, not getting more insight into her mounting doubt from then til the turn in this episode is simply an exposition issue: she’s *only* been with Qimir, who she knows is not someone she can confide in with her doubts and concerns.
All told, I get the gripe about it feeling a bit quick, it settled a bit odd on my shoulders the first time I watched it too, and that’s what a reaction is: y’all’s first watch. Having re-watched the episode multiple times now (3 times watching the full ep in D+ and then all the reactions) it has settled in a little better for me as a point I get, personally. I do understand why it’s rubbing some folks a little weirdly on first watch, though.
Adam: They don't KNOW that we know they know we know 😂
That Roots joke got me. lol
"You will remember today as The Day You ALMOST Caught Qmir,Lord of the Sii.." (gets snared in a simple rope trap)
Mae's master probably told her that the Jedi killed Osha
She still murdered two people. Easily attainable records could have found her if she ever considered to look .
@@Bidenmytime She only killed one. The other killed himself out of guilt for something he did.
@@Bidenmytimeanakin killed a ridiculous amount of people even after sidious flat out told him he didn't actually know how to stop padme from dying. Like the tenet of the dark side is that grief makes you do terrible things beyond reason if you just succumb enough and you get the wrong nudges
I think something happened when the Jedi tested Mae. I don’t know what it is yet, but I think that’s a reveal they’re saving.
Maybe we are not supposed to see how the Wookie died yet.....
But its been confirmed the fight with the wookie was cut due to budget reasons.
@@crimsonjedieven tho its in the trailer and was already done anyway ... that just shows the low effort put into the show and the waste of resources ..
It's shockingly decent given the reception lol
I don't think Mae's flip is a surprise at all
-When Mae fought Sol he said "Even now your thoughts go to your sister". I believe her entire motivation for teaming up with a scary master that is threatening to kill her if she doesn't complete a task she sees as impossible, and a slimy smuggler she doesn't know, trust, or even seem to like being around, is to get revenge for Osha. In her mind the Jedi came to steal her twin away, the person she wants to be with as one for the rest of their life. I fully expect to see the Jedi involved in the destruction of the coven in another flashback and she blames them for losing Osha. When Sol notices her thinking about her sister during the fight she screams "MY SISTER IS DEAD!!" Knowing Osha is actually alive and well should absolutely change everything for her.
Her actually seeing Osha and having some time to process that, I'm not surprised at all to see her motivation change and she decides to peace out. She didn't seem to really like the situation she was in anyway.
i feel like Mae isnt the villain. she was quick to give up her vendetta against the Jedi, but Osha cant forgive Mae. i wonder if Osha started the fire when hallucinating an evil version of her sister, either someone maniuplating her or something else. but in the scene where they fell, Mae seemed different then "ill kill you" Mae. i wonder if the one who fell was real Mae and she thought Osha started the fire. either way love the reaction guys thank you!~
I think the main source of confusion is that people correctly assumed we didn't get the whole picture last episode. But people incorrectly assumed which parts of it were false. Personally, I think the vast majority is false. I think the events we saw aren't what actually happened from Osha's perspective, but instead what she remembers happened combined with her current day beliefs and opinions. She was told her sister started the fire that killed her mother. The Jedi saved her life. The Jedi accepted her. So in her memory, Mae is evil, the coven is evil, her mother is both loving, but also completely willing to gaslight and emotionally manipulate her daughter (which is probably because she both misses her mom, but also knows her mother wouldn't approve of her having been a Jedi), and why the Jedi were seen as good, and non-antagonistic.
Some scenes, like basically every scene where Osha WASN'T present, are probably reliable. Mae showing up at the Bunts tree not knowing if her sister is alive is reliable. All the discussions between the adult members of the coven sre reliable. Other than that, it's probably all tainted with Osha's current beliefs, and therefore is unreliable. Which would be one hell of a way to do a flashback episode, but I'm not saying I dislike it.
We need to talk about The Acolyte. There is a lot to unpack from Episode 4 as I replayed certain scenes over and over and let’s make predictions for Episode 5. Qimir or not Qimir, that is the question…
Qimir: How do you kill a Jedi without a weapon? It has to be some sort of test, right? You engage unarmed, but you can use their saber if you disarm them? Or is that cheating? I’m just curious how you’re gonna do it this time. You’ve failed so much.
Mae: I didn’t fail. I killed Indara and I killed Torbin.
Qimir: But you killed them “your way.” You have to kill the Wookiee without a weapon. Your Master wants you to..
Mae: What kind of deal did you make with him?
Qimir: I didn’t. Uh, *we* didn’t exactly. I… I just owe him. You know how he is, he collects people.
Mae: I’ve never seen his face. Have you?
Qimir: You know I haven’t. Oh, look, there it is. The perimeter.
I thought when Qimir said *”we* didn’t exactly” after he said *“I* didn’t” to be strange. Is he including Mae as part of the deal? Why say we when Mae was asking him directly? And then listen carefully to how he said “he collects people.” He said *people* in a serious tone the same way he told Mae that “he’d kill you.”
All the tea leaves points to Qimir as Smilo Ren. He changes the topic quickly after Mae asked him if he’s seen the Master’s face. And then his obvious rush to get to Kelnacca (or Kelly as some Redditors call him). Why is Qimir in such a hurry? Because he knows the Jedis are coming? He needs Mae to perform his final task?
Is Qimir the acolyte, the apprentice, or the master? Because that Force push was pretty strong. He seems stronger than being only an acolyte or an apprentice. And he floated down like he’s Batman ‘89. Remember the last time we saw Qimir, he was hanging upside-down from a tree. He had the higher ground the last time we see him.
But what if Qimir is NOT Smilo Ren even though a majority of us already believe it is him? He did disarm Mae rather easily in Ep 2 and already said the first sentence of the Sith code. But why reveal himself? There is a scene right before Qimir got caught in Mae’s trap that it looked like he really was going to fetch her for more water.
Some people are saying he knew it was a trap but I don’t know? It looked genuine right before he got caught upside-down. Mae screamed HELP! and then you see Qimir running towards her with concern in his face. And how he told Mae that he cares. Remember last year when everyone tried to predict who Marrok was in Ahsoka only to find out he’s smoke underneath it?
Say we take his word and Qimir has never seen the Master’s face. Then he’s only assuming the Master is a he. What if it’s a she? I’m also reading from some Redditors believing it’s Vernestra. Why does she keep hiding these missions from the Jedi Council? And some think she sent Sol and that crew on a secret mission so they can kill all the loose ends.
Of course if it’s Vernestra, it may piss off some SW fans who already know her from the recent High Republic comics from 3 years ago which Lesyle is using it as some of her source material + EU. Not to sound mean but Vernestra has a face I want to slap. Rebecca Henderson is Lesyle Headland’s real life wife, but Vernestra has a face I want to slap. Maybe because she’s green and bald. Doesn’t have a trustworthy face.
I saw one Redditor thinks it’s Indara and that she didn’t really die after that opening scene. That she’s the Master. BTW, Manny Jacinto is listed at 5’11 while both Carrie-Anne Moss and Rebecca Henderson are both listed at 5’9. If Trinity is the Sith Lord all along after we all thought she died in the first episode would be quite hilarious. 😂 She could survive that small knife wound if Reva and Sabine can survive lightsaber cuts through their bodies.
Let’s say Qimir is Smilo Ren and is the acolyte. He’s using Mae to perform his last test of killing a Jedi without a weapon. That’s why he was in such a rush for Mae to get to Kelnacca. But he killed Kelnacca with a lightsaber. He’s not passing his final test. Mae didn’t technically kill Torbin. He chose death. The poison could be considered a weapon or not but he chose to die. Mae didn’t kill him. I don’t understand Qimir revealing himself against 8 Jedis when he could’ve just left the scene if he knew Mae had a change of heart and was going to rat on him.
I do agree with Star Wars Meg that The Acolyte should’ve dropped all episodes entirely ala Stranger Things. I grew up watching LOST (2004-2010) years before The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones, so I can understand the frustrations waiting a week to find out what happens next. A new generation may not have the patience for a mystery show dropping one episode per week.
It’s actually quite unfair to judge The Acolyte because we are essentially looking at a puzzle 🧩 with missing pieces to the big picture. It would be like judging only the first half of Knives Out, Glass Onion, Death on the Nile, Clue, or any Scooby-Doo episode before we get to the final reveal. The Acolyte is basically a *whodunit* series. I’m not saying it’s great but it is quite unfair to judge it knowing it’s hiding a lot of things from the viewers.
Alex from The Angry Joe Show said the one who killed Kelnacca was Bazil. I know he said it in jest but it was quite peculiar to see Bazil right before Mae found Kelnacca dead. He was not seen for most of that episode. Then we finally see him, Mae finds out Kelnacca is dead. We definitely got robbed not seeing Kelnacca not getting into a fight. What a jip! We get excited seeing a Wookiee Jedi after Ep 2 and we still didn’t get to see him fight for his life using a lightsaber. 🤦🏻 So wrong.
The show does look quite cheap. Now where they filmed Khofar was somewhere in Madeira, Portugal. It was quite beautiful but then there are certain scenes to this show that looks bland and cheap. I don’t feel the immersion from it. Coruscant looks bland to me. It looks like a ghost town and it’s only 100 years before TPM. Where’s all the flying ships and tall skyscrapers surrounding the Jedi Temple? A hundred years difference is not going to make Coruscant look that bland and dead.
The Acolyte costs $180M when it looks worse than Ahsoka at $105M. Heck, worse than Godzilla Minus One at only $15M. House of the Dragon revealed it’s first episode from Season 2 and that episode at around $20M looks 10x better than The Acolyte. Ahsoka used tons of Volume but I consider it the 2nd best looking among the SW Disney+ series behind Andor ($250M). Some shots in The Acolyte looks like something out of a Star Trek TV series.
I don’t agree with Meg’s opinion from yesterday that the Star Wars Prequels looks far better than the Disney+ series. Only Revenge of the Sith still looks decent today but The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones have showed their age after 22-25 years. Check TPM’s scene between the Gungans vs. Droid Army. Very little green texture. Then AOTC’s Battle of Geonosis looks even more awful to me now than it did in 2002.
The SW Disney+ looks better to me because it is mixing real location, Volume, and green/blue screens while the Prequels relied on most of the latter although I did visit The Plaza de España in Seville, Spain. It’s the scene when Anakin is holding Padmé’s luggages in AOTC. That was one of the biggest complaints of the Prequels. Most of the backgrounds didn’t feel real. It was like the actors were put in an animated movie or some video game from the PlayStation 3 era.
Episode 5 Predictions?
The obvious one is 5 of those 8 Jedis not named Sol, Yord, and Jecki will be redshirted and should be killed right away from Smilo Ren. But what happens then? Call me Chato predicts Sol will be captured and it becomes a rescue mission for Mae and Osha. Or what if Osha is captured and it’s a rescue mission for Sol, Mae, Yord, and Jecki? Or if it’s called Night, Sol (meaning Sun ☀️) dies in it?
Smilo didn’t kill Osha but Smilo seemed to toss her away pretty easily with the Force. I think Smilo is going to use her to turn. Maybe that’s why the reveal. Since Episode 4 left us with a major cliffhanger, I think Episode 5’s viewership is going to spike up. As bad as The Acolyte has been, people are still curious who is Smilo Ren and who really killed the lesbian witch coven that we didn’t see in the previous flashback episode since we only saw it from Osha’s perspective. What are the Jedi hiding? Why did Torbin feel so guilty?
My money is on Vernestra but I think it’s 90% Qimir. But I want to bet on a longshot. Everyone was dead wrong on Marrok last year. Vernestra is still a fairly new character from the comics/novels. If it’s her, I don’t think fans would get too mad. Now the person who killed the witch coven may not be Smilo Ren. That could be a different character. Manny Jacinto is 38-years-old. But his character might be younger in this series and might be too young to commit killing the witch coven.
Smilo Ren?
90% Qimir
2% Vernestra
2% Koril
2% Aniseya
2% Indara
1% Sol’s evil twin
1% Bazil
Here’s Vernestra’s convo with Sol. A way of trying to throw us off?
Vernestra: I fear Mae is only a small part of her Master’s larger plan. A plan that is difficult to see. Some sort of shift. Something to tip the scales.
Vernestra might be the Master and Qimir is Smilo Ren as either the Acolyte or her Apprentice. Episode 5 titled, Night, might be the banger episode we’ve been waiting for! Or it could still stink it up as usual….
What if the last four episodes kicks some serious ass? That’s quite a shift from hating it to loving it. From worst to best in a hurry. It’s like the Prequels, GameCube, and Kobe Bryant during their prime. Hated back in the day but beloved now from a generation who grew up on them.
Can Smilo Ren be Torbin? For some reason, I find his death is quite suspicious too. He seems to be the most affected by that tragedy, his force meditation thing is crazy powerful, and could've arranged his 'death' with Qimir.
Admittedly, faking out a death at a Jedi Temple is probably not easy as I think they have a good mortuary and body disposal system.
Yord gets a lot if crap, but he's really grown on me. He's kind of rules nerd, but his heart seems in the right place at the end of the day.
I interpreted him as someone who JUST became a jedi knight and is both nervous about screwing it up and excited to prove he's worth it, so he's over the top on the rules as a result. I think we'll see him calm down and be more himself as time goes on
He's a fantastic character to bounce moments off of, though. The two best laughs in this whole series so far would not have worked if Yord wasn't who he was for the other characters to respond to.
I like him, but he's pretty much a punching bag for all the woman and Sol in the show. He has the most sensible questions but everyone ignores him.
Mae thought Osha was dead. Just like Osha thought Mae was dead.
So, of course seeing her alive as ANYTHING shocked her.
Just when the show can't get any worse, a new episode comes out.
Also, Jay- I think this is the same ship you liked in Episode 1 (the one that detached from the bigger ship). You’re just seeing it from a different angle.
Was that a South Park reference with “I am Yord, Yord Yord Yord”? 🤣
Mae's buddy is definitely the Master
a solid 8
Loving this series so far. Thanks for another enjoyable reaction, guys!
Not gonna lie, I thought the Sith stabbed Osha when he first ignited the lightsaber.
yeah i thought he cut her in half
That would have been a good turn.
Mind you getting stabbed with a lightsaber, isn't that lethal nowadays in Disney Star Wars 😂
It'd odd that people are seeing Mae's change of heart as not adding up - her whole deal was that she wants to be with her sister. In the past, the Jedi were trying to take her away and then Mae thought she was dead. Now that she knows Osha's alive, her motivation remains the same: be with my sister. I think the show is doing a good job at using our preconceived notions against us, too, because in that flashback, Osha was 'choking out a butterfly' too - it was only Mae who got chastised for it. I think the show is doing a lot of telling you one thing (through the characters stating how they feel and musical cues) yet showing another which is making it really engaging, not straightforward storytelling.
Really well said!
The problem is, nobody cares. What's the point of all this if it only confuses the majority of fans who want to enjoy STAR WARS? None of the characters in this show have enough charisma to counterbalance the poor writing. It feels like the work of a teenager trying to prove their skill by adding unnecessary complexity. Watching it just feels awkward.
@@MonPetitPython to be fair, "nobody cares" is poor writing directed at two commenters who do care. I understand it's not for everyone. Not everything is. I love hot sauce - but I don't love hot fermented sauces. Does that mean they shouldn't be made? You may like every other star wars more than Acolyte - and that's ok! Enjoy all that :) But myself and others will still enjoy this. So...like what you like, dislike what you like, but you can pause before saying "nobody" when you mean "I".
@@calebd.5005 To be fair, "nobody cares" is far too good a response to use against statements like "well said" and "I love hot sauce, but I don't love hot fermented sauces." Speaking of poor writing...
@@MonPetitPython It hasn't been difficult for me to follow - pushing past your comfort zone and engaging in more complex media is ok. It's ok if you don't understand everything initially - maybe it'll be clear to you by the end (the way most mysteries work), maybe it'll take a rewatch or hearing other's thoughts about the story before it clicks with you, maybe it never will. But that doesn't mean that just because it's confusing to YOU right now that 'nobody cares' or is 'poor writing'. Everyone has different perceptions/what they like in media - your tastes aren't universal, nor should they be. This obsession with 'what I view as good media is objectively correct and anything that falls outside my narrow perspective is objectively wrong' needs to stop.
In case it is not on the nail enough for some people.....
Basil is a giant mouse-like creature, that is great at detecting things.....
Basil's race, Tynnan, was created in the 1979 novel, Han Solo's Revenge...and was made modern Canon in 2016 in the book, Catalyst: A Rogue One Novel.
@@aliwantizuif this show is doing anything, they’re really looking through the past and present encyclopedias.
@@jinxie712Except when it comes to things like when people were born...
@@CCFONESOL Legends is being used as a resource for fleshing out canon. Canon is not beholden to what Legends has established.
@VoyagerCSL pretty much established in the prequels. Plus quit excusing incompetence. They didn't even realize what they did until the backlash hit. Then they tried to "fix" it, cover it up, and lie about it.
Come on, Mae.
You can't just leave your Master hanging like that.....
🤭
Don't forget Mae didn't know her sister was alive. She has been thinking about it and she finally decided that all the things she believed all her life was based on a lie. I would change who I was in that final moment of realization too.
Even after killing two Jedis and thinking she won't get punished for it
But whether or not those 4 Jedi are the cause of her family's death isn't predicated on if Osha is alive. Her being surprised her sister is alive doesn't explain why she suddenly stopped wanting revenge.
Even then, it's a decision that's out of no where. To say it simply, literally anything COULD happen in fiction: Professor X COULD systematically use Cerebro to scan the world for mutant criminals with warrants and have his X-Men track them down. It would be the most efficient use of the technology. But that's not how stories work. An inciting incident needs to happen to prompt Professor X to use Cerebro. Stories are cause and effect.
Saying that Mae simply knowing her sister is alive now should be enough cause for her to risk everything to find her even though nothing happened within the story to prompt that risk being justified (she thought about it, silently, and just decided to do it) is like saying Charles Xavier should just think about it and use Cerebro better.
I feel like some people are being more charitable than they should ... because they expect it to get better ... I think they will still be dissapointed in the end.
THE ROOTS.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
“They float?” Adam, you forgot, Force comes out the feet.
My main gripe with this show is, who is the protagonist? Who are we supposed to be rooting for? Mae? She was the character we were introduced to first, but she’s a villain, so why would we root for a murderer. Osha? She’s passive and has no agency as a character. Sol? Is he good? It’s not clear. It just feels like someone telling us a story, instead of letting us follow a character through their story.
I don't really feel anything for the main character. I think that's why this show is losing me, never really had me i guess. They never really made me care about her. But I agree with you. Just seems like poor fanfiction
And then you have people who are completely willing to buy in to the idea that OSHA is really the bad twin and that episode 3 is completely from her biased perspective. By that logic, who the hell am I supposed to be rooting for?
They are trying SO HARD to have an old fashioned mystery where everyone could have Dunnit, which is completely underwhelming because the detective (Sol) isn't the main character. We can't learn more about the twins WITH Sol because the story is from the twins' perspectives, while also playing with the idea that the twins' perspectives can't be trusted. So the scenes themselves can't be trusted, the dialogue can't be trusted....
"...that's why there are no Empire Osha guideline rules because she got murdered by a giant rollie-poly bug..." LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just reacted to episode 5 bro im shook! cant wait to seee your reaction!
Okay, Manny is the master, but the helmet is his apprentice we haven't met yet. He's toying with his apprentice for taking on an apprentice of their own.
How could they do my boy Kelnacca like that?! 😭
They didn't have money in the budget to show the fight they said.
@@crimsonjedi 200 million darn…..they totally couldn’t have put a 4 minute fight in there. They had to spend on a random pop song for the witches to sing part of. Priorities I guess…….my question still stands
@@Hudfilmsproductions I feel ya. I'm guessing we will see him fight maybe in a flashback but that's not the same when I know he's dead. The massacred the boy!
Ki-Adi-Mundi: Your thoughts dwell on your mother?
Anakin: My thoughts dwell on your mother
Council : ooooooh
I don't think Mae had a change of heart, I think she feels she could kill the 2 remaining Jedi from within instead of hunting them down. But she already killed 2, so the Jedi wouldn't try to reform her, would they? This doesn't makes sense.
But she literally is minutes away from Jedi #3 when she decides to walk away....
I think the shift in Mae is “you don’t know what you’ve lost til it’s gone.” She thought she lost Osha. All that love she had for her came back. She didn’t want to kill Osha, but she also didn’t want to be separated from her.
Well she already killed two Jedi so there's no going back for her
Flying is a witch power isn't it? Dathomiri Witch Talent Tree Flight:
"As a swift action, you can spend a Force Point to fly. You gain a fly speed equal to your land speed, and you can ascend at half speed or descend at double speed. The flight lasts until the start of your next turn; if you’re still airborne at that time, you fall." The powers are always a clue.
Hear me out, the Sith is Indara! I think she and her Padawan invaded the coven as Mae started the fire, and used the distraction to kill them all, Sol realized something was up, but never truly believed they did something bad. Indara needed a new apprentice since her's was overridden by guilt before she could lead him down the dark path. We know Jedi are capable of putting themselves into a near death meditative state, something I think she did after force pulling the knife from Mae and stopping it RIGHt before her heart with a force shield, Doubt me, rewatch the scene, look at Mae's face, she was shocked. Now free to move on her own Indara puts things in motion to get to the Wookie first to set Mae up further as the true killer. Think about it Kanacca(SP?) was isolated, probably had no idea she was reported dead, so he would see an old friend and invite them in as they relaxed, Indara strikes, killing him before he has time to react.
We have yet to see the forest fire that we saw in the trailers and Episode. 1.
They float now! lol
Thank you for catching that! 🙂
The episode could literally have been just the last 2 minutes and we would not have missed anything of the story/plot. I'm always fascinated how there are so many comments trying to figure out what is going on and everybody's motivations etc. Would be amusing if it all turns out to be an unhinged mess that doesn't add up whatsoever. I'm kinda leaning in that direction, actually.
Dave & Buster coupons. Nice one!
The Jedi did not die. Episode 5 is just a dream sequence of Osha.
Ultimately Sol kills Qimir to assume the Sith identity.
More Jedi killed on The Acolyte than on the entire Star Wars movies. Fabulous indeed!
Adam i have some bad news. Star Wars has a proud history of Space Fires from all the way back to the very first movie. so....
yeah.
just sayin'
This show is a murder mystery. These type of stories never go in a straight line. There are always twists and turns, some surprising and some not so surprising. We are obviously going to have to wait until the end.
Whose murder is a mystery?
Which murder was a mystery? We watched each one happen...
And as for the twists and turns.... They are only happening because the characters are switching motivations at the drop of a hat, not because of any actual changes in the plot.... Mae wants to kill four Jedi for killing her family, but then she suddenly doesn't want to do that because one member of her family may still be alive, so then she betrays her master to go to the Jedi that she should still think killed her family, and then in the next episode she doesn't want to turn herself in again...
Nothing happened. The writers just write Mae to antagonize whoever she's with.
Your so right something not add up, I've got two questions for you where Darth Plagueis he must be around and why hasn't Yoda shown up? he must know something is going on.
this guy looked very powerful, both with the landing entrance, and the force push that pushed all the jedi. could be Plagueis, been wanting his backstory for forever
They float now?? They float now...
A lot of things doesn't add up..lmfao..😂
I think the show would have benefited from applying a fundamental narrative principle: Chekhov's Wookie. "If you show a Wookie Jedi, you need to show him throwing down and not getting punked off-screen."
Prediction: the Master is Zabrak Mom, whose body I never actually saw and who was all about slaughtering some Jedi.
I am starting to think Mae’s change in attitude may have something to do with the planet. Osha told Sol that she was starting to sense things again, maybe it is having an effect on her also.
Good point!
Normally, the ending when the Sith Lord appeared gave me goosebumps like when I first saw the Alien movie. As for Kiadi-mundi, we know that SW Legends are not Canon.
We've already seen this change with Yaddle in Tales of the Jedi.
As for Kimiro, I think the same, I noticed that he might not want Mae, just as a textbook, but maybe something more.
And as for Mae, since she found out that Oshie is alive and they saw her, her turn would make sense, it reminds me of Vader and Luke in episode 6.
Right? Darth Vader is pure evil kills kids genocides planets and then becomes a good guy in the end for his son but her changing her mind after finding her dead sister alive is bad writing. You can't make this shit up
Turns out Mae totally misunderstood her master...
Offer the Jedi DINNER. Take them OUT, no weapons!
Sheesh.
Adding up how? Like budget vs. show?
If that's the question then yes! Something isn't adding up.
I am Yord. Ya Ya Ya
Roots, rock and wiener bugs, on my!
Adam: “They Float?”
Me: “No. They’re falling with style!”
here's my hypothesis: Mother Koril is the dark lord. somehow she survived when Mother Aniseya and the others didn't. i also feel that the young Mae who talked of burning it all down is not Mae. a projection? a dark imagining? because the Mae on the bridge when it collapsed felt different somehow. that of course is just me. looking forward to next tuesday
"Ladies and Gentlemen, The Roots"
Fleshy Sacks
Looking forward to seeing Smylo Ren
I get very confused at people who think SW is some big intellectual thought-provoking property. It has always been for entertainment and aimed at kids no? That’s why you have pretty coloured “swords”, fun creatures, kooky droids, ewoks, jar-jar, an obviously bad guy dressed all in black with a deep scary voice… They have always been ‘movies’ not ‘films’. This is a fine series that lots of people worked hard on that some people just want to hate because it is not exactly reminiscent of something they have romanticised from their childhood.
Personally I think Mae could be baiting Qimir into action, like she thinks he’s the master but forcing his hand to reveal himself by saying she’s out of their deal.
"... And murder gibbons,..." A phrase I never thought I would hear spoken aloud.
Don't you start that space fire again Adam
and that WEIRD rap diss - look up Step N Fetchers by Kool Keith- he was onto it many years ago
From a certain point of view, Mae succeeded in her quest, by announcing that she was going to defect, the master had to kill Kelnaca. Kelnaca is dead, and Mae didn't use a weapon.
😂😂😂
This episode really solidified my theory that we're getting a knockoff of Rashomon. There's too much off with Mae and Osha for it to just be a writing error - it's too deliberate. Doesn't mean it'll be smart (need the rest of the series to make that call), but I think there's a Thing going on we're not privy to yet.
The problem is that the writers were unwilling to make the detective the main character so that is an actual mystery story/Rashomon and instead they are trying to make the two lead suspects the main characters, which causes them to act irrationally in order to keep up the guise of mystery since if we saw things from their perspective we would understand things immediately...
"Osha clearly remembers her sister wanting to kill her." Well... She just misremembered that. (Why would the character we are supposed to sympathize with the most have such a self-serving memory? Who knows. The writers need us to not understand what happened That Day.)
"Mae clearly wants to kill the Jedi who murdered her family." Well... Mae doesn't want that anymore because Osha is alive. (Why would her quest for vengeance for her entire family be invalidated by finding out one member of the family is still alive, and why would literally any other criticism she had against the Jedi and the Republic stop being true if they weren't guilty of killing specifically Osha? Who knows. The writers wanted a plot twist to happen.)
I CANNOT look at Dafne Keen’s character without seeing Evan Peters.
I believe Mae has turned and Osha will be turning to the other side. Maybe the Master is her mother and the Jedi kill her and she also finds out the truth about the death of the coven. Osha will turn to the dark side.
It’s funny how confused these guys always are😂😂😂😂
I'm of the mind that the flashback ep was HEAVILY from Osha's perspective. Mae was dialed up to 11 in a way that a kid would perceive.
The problem is is that the writers were unwilling to make the detective the main character so that is an actual mystery story, and instead they are trying to make the two lead suspects the main characters, which causes them to act irrationally in order to keep up the guise of mystery since if we saw things from their perspective we would understand things immediately...
"Osha clearly remembers her sister wanting to kill her." Well... She just misremembered that. (Why would the character we are supposed to sympathize with the most have such a self-serving memory? Who knows. The writers need us to not understand what happened That Day.)
"Mae clearly wants to kill the Jedi who murdered her family." Well... Mae doesn't want that anymore because Osha is alive. (Why would her quest for vengeance for her entire family be invalidated by finding out one member of the family is still alive, and why would literally any other criticism she had against the Jedi and the Republic stop being true if they weren't guilty of killing specifically Osha? Who knows. The writers wanted a plot twist to happen.)
You're right that maes change of heart was out of left field but it fit with the context of episode 3, how attached she is to osha, she comes off vwry obsessive qnd possessive of osha, her life revolved around osha. The jedi taking her away would cause her to be more twisted about it, if i cant have her then you cant behaviour. Alternatively we havrnt seen her perspective or the jedi perspective of what happened either but as bizarre of a choice it feels, its weirdly within character i feel, because mae is i believe to be a psychologically unbalanced person who has feveloped a codependancy, thinking osha was dead would of course drove her towards the thinf that she thought took her away, bow she knows shes alive she thinks she can be all hunky dorey with her again
Ok so something I brushed off in episode 3 you made me think about again saying her drive doesnt seem the same. Now I just thought this was bad sync on the post-recorded audio, but for a second in the views and reactions I have watched of episode 3 it seems like Osha is the one that fell and Mae was calling out to her when the bridge collapsed and not the other way around. Then knowing she was caught with the Jedi, just went along with it and blended in. I know it doesnt make sense because of the forehead marking but I dont know I have been suspicious the whole time.
I’m almost sure that the red lightsaber wielding person is one of Mei and Osehas mothers.
It's Knives Out, Star Wars style
The problem is is that the writers were unwilling to make the detective the main character so that is an actual mystery story, and instead they are trying to make the two lead suspects the main characters, which causes them to act irrationally in order to keep up the guise of mystery since if we saw things from their perspective we would understand things immediately...
"Osha clearly remembers her sister wanting to kill her." Well... She just misremembered that. (Why would the character we are supposed to sympathize with the most have such a self-serving memory? Who knows. The writers need us to not understand what happened That Day.)
"Mae clearly wants to kill the Jedi who murdered her family." Well... Mae doesn't want that anymore because Osha is alive. (Why would her quest for vengeance for her entire family be invalidated by finding out one member of the family is still alive, and why would literally any other criticism she had against the Jedi and the Republic stop being true if they weren't guilty of killing specifically Osha? Who knows. The writers wanted a plot twist to happen.)
Why did you shorten the outro of the video? I miss that bit. Please go back!!
Nobody cares
@@IDONTCARE1313 you care enough to comment multiple times, you're killing your own brand
@@JebJebJebbersWow, did you ask your boyfriend for a good comeback? Yikes
I am SO glad to see you guys finally opening up/calling out the writing issues with this show instead of just letting them quietly slide by 👍🏻
Thanks, Jay! Thanks, Adam! 🌑 I'm still intrigued with how they're allowing the mystery to unfold. 🔸 That Kel Dor wasn't 'Plo Koon', she's a new character called 'Ithia Paan'.
I think Star Wars comes up with new names by listening to what people blurt out on Hot Ones. Argle snot Flarger.
Great cocaine powder reference, Jay! 👏
I think Mae was being controlled by another darkside person when she was a kid. I think the person in the mask is her Zabrat mother and that also was the person that controlled her to set the fire when she was a kid. Do you remember in the first episode when Oshia was seeing her sister and her eyes turned black and she said " I will kill them All". That was not young may talking.
Given that the first episode established that Mae was unwilling to kill a witness because they had a child with them, I think that her being softer and more compassionate than her younger self from the flashback is intentional, either because the flashback is actually unreliable and Osha is remembering Mae in a darker light than she actually was, or because Mae's personality shifted when she lost the rest of her family and that trauma has made familial bonds more important to her.
I personally think it is the former, because there are moments in the flashback where Mae acts like a totally normal kid and her arguments with Osha are normal, and other moments where she acts like a complete sociopath who doesn't care about Osha's feelings at all, and most of those moments could have just been Mae being scared of Osha leaving her behind, and Osha failing to recognize that.
And do you feel that's consistent writing? Force choking a butterfly? How does that convey "I miss you"?
Why do you think the writers think it's a good idea to show a small child torturing animals and to show her as an assassin willing to endanger other people's lives to get to her target, but then the writers think that's balanced by "she loves her sister that she threatened to murder" and "she was willing to kill one of several dozen witnesses, but see, she's still got a heart because it occured to her that murdering people orphans kids."
Is it really "compassionate" to stop doing evil things literally only when you project your own issues on to others instead of looking at them as real people?
@Cityweaver Well, like I said in the original comment, I think that Osha is misremembering Mae's actions to some degree.
Mae holding the butterfly only seems weird because of how it is framed, and Osha is shown doing the same thing just a moment before, and it is just framed as her testing her power.
Maybe Mae was just trying to show off by copying what Osha did for longer, not recognizing that Osha stopped because she didn't want to hurt it because in her eyes, it's just a bug, so why would she care about hurting it?
The conversation had in that scene is about how Osha and Mae differ, despite being raised to believe they are the same, so maybe Mae was trying to force the idea that they are the same by mimicking Osha's actions.
As for the threat of murder: she says that once, while angry, as an eight year old!
Sixteen years are supposed to have passed where she thought her sister actually did die that day, so yeah I can believe she regrets saying that and has spent some amount of time blaming herself for what happened even if she saw that someone else was being the deaths of the witches.
I get that this show's writing has some rough parts, and if you aren't enjoying it, that's fine, but personally, I think the show has been good enough to see through to the end before I start picking apart its issues.
If it turns out I was wrong in giving them the benefit of the doubt and the writing is just sloppy, then I will be critical about it once I can determine that is the case, but at this point, we don't have the full picture yet, so what fits together and what falls apart is all up in the air as far as I'm concerned.
@@chandlerennis688 So, Mae hurting an animal is either not really her hurting it or should be interpreted as her not understanding she's hurting it if it can be proven objectively that it was actually hurt... And Mae constantly making her sister uncomfortable and threatening her shouldn't be analyzed as lasting characterization because we should either see the scenes through Osha's uncomfortableness with the assumption that OSHA misinterprets everything Mae does to the point of completely not understanding who she is as a person, or talk as if threatening to kill someone is normal prepubescent behavior.... Okay.
Well, it was nice talking to you. Have a great day!
I'm kinda certain the sith lord is Mae's over protective and MOST motivated (Darth Maul)s mom or grandma lookin character...I mean the sith lord had a horn covering helmet and like a disappointed mother looking at a teen kids mess....cleaned up after it by Killin the wookie...just sayin'. Great show Sirs!
Charlie Barnett, Yord, is really good in Russian Doll (which is a wild and weird fun show)
ADAM...Love your t-shirt...it's GREAT! Where can I get one!
You made two princess bride references, but you didn’t make me obvious “space fireswamp” and “space ROUS”
Why do I think Jecki is Grim Reaper Bait?
We are not getting a complete true past. We’re looking through Osha eyes. Bet we’ll get a real origin and Mae was the victim the whole time.
It's kinda annoying cause I want to root for someone but I can't.
You noticed the Kel Dor but didn’t notice Ki Adi Mundi?
BUT BEFORE YOU DO PLEASE LIKE SUBSCRIBE AND HIT THAT BELL.
DO THAT UA-cam THAT YOU DO SO WELL!!!