I apologize for the incredibly clickbait title and thumbnail, but I need people to actually look at the differences between the Original and Remaster and be their own judge. Pictures of 3D model wire frames and rage bait headlines just aren't going to cut it if we want people to actually know why they should be happy or upset about these things.
I do 3D modeling and CAD design/engineering, and I can say pretty definitively say that if the cockpit had in fact been remade from scratch, there is basically no plausible way for wireframes to match up the way that they do. This can be confusing to those who don't know what they're looking at, because at first glance the cockpit had a lot more geometry in the model, but the overall exterior shaping of most objects is identical, and there are several whole panels that are completely unchanged, without any geometry changes at all. You could take 100 people and give them the same references, and have them all build a new F-5 cockpit, and the most that would match in geometry might be small simple shape elements like circle or square buttons. But complex shapes basically couldn't be identical. As someone who does this stuff for a living, the "new" cockpit is very obviously NOT made from scratch, it's an update of the old one. Much of the same geometry is visible, which basically shouldn't be possible if it were new. It's not really a matter of "deciding for yourself," especially if you don't know anything about 3d modeling. They're the same cockpits, the new one has just been slightly updated, mainly the weapon switches, emeg. Jett. Button cover, stick, seat cushion, pilot model, and some minor detailing on the right firewall panel. Basically the whole rest of the cockpit(which is most of it) is either identical, or has had some kind of bevel or subdivision surface modifier added, which can be pretty effortlessly done. Then ED encrypted the model, and it's the only plane in the game to be encrypted like that. Probably to make it harder to actually look at it and realize it's the same cockpit, until everyone had already bought it.
Well, I have some knowledge of 3D modeling, and here’s my take: Exterior model: Built from scratch. Interior model: Not entirely built from scratch. While some elements, like switches, buttons, and the control stick, seem to be new, the base mesh appears to be the same, with all the textures completely redone. I’m pretty sure they had to create new UVs for the cockpit (due to the AO pass and other technical reasons), but overall, it seems they remastered the old 3D model, which was already quite good-there weren’t any visible polygons on curved surfaces or similar issues. The pilot model is an outstanding piece of work and was clearly made from scratch. Overall, I think the F-5 now looks excellent. Deciding whether the cockpit is "built from scratch" or not feels like a technicality. The term "remaster" fits well for what it is-it’s not a full remake. As for the price, $10 as an optional upgrade where you lose nothing if you choose not to pay seems like a fair deal. Could it be better? Sure, there’s always room for improvement, but this is solid work. That said, claiming the interior was built entirely from scratch might be a stretch. Additional note: I don’t have any inside knowledge of the project’s development; this is just my personal opinion based on what I’ve seen in reviews and promotional videos. I’ve flown the F-5 a few times in the past but never purchased it because it felt outdated. Thanks to this upgrade, it’s now on my list, and as soon as I have the budget, I’m definitely buying the module.
It's $15 and based on some lie. From all the comment in this video, we know why DLC and microtransactions will never die and will always thrive. There's a lot of cows to milk in.
Were the reflections 'remastered' as well? I noticed that the glass gauges and the canopy reflections look so bad now that I turn the canopy reflection settings off completely. The reflections look very low resolution and it's distracting. It's most noticeable on the left side of the cockpit dashboard where the speed gauge and altitude gauge is at. At least we don't have a cartoon looking flight stick anymore. The top of the flight stick, the weapon release button and trim switch looks much better now.
the wireframes having identical vertices means that it *is* the same model. the odds of them having many *identical* floating point values for location data in 3 axis, is very slim, even when modelling an identical object. The only time this is not the case is for VERY basic objects, like a 1m cube. The vertices matching is a smoking gun that it was straight up modified from the old one. They may think they told the modeller to make a new one, but the guy blatantly just updated the old one.
The same people that don't want to pay for ED's work are probably the same people that want to get paid when they do any little thing at work. Weird how that works. 10 is a small price to pay to support them and the sim we love.
Wouldve been cool if you discussed the reddit post. Kinda felt a bit dissapointing bringing it up as a sort of "Hey, look at this thing that says ED flat out lied. No idea if its true.", then dropping it and moving on. Otherwise a fine video
Way I see it, they musta done pretty good the first time around, because the remaster looks absolutely fine, but I had to squint to see improvement in some areas, though not others.
Feels like DCS community right now is complaining about everything, everyone I talk to right now says "DCS is trash now and ED has messed up and I dont wanna fly anymore!" when the sim is better than its ever been and we have gotten loads of really good and needed upgrades lately and in just 3 years gotten a heap of high quality modules, sure, things are going slow but thats the nature of these things, same thing goes for MSFS... heck, there we have to buy a new sim now to get the engine upgrades needed for helicopters to work.... and it got expensive! So maybe people need to complain less and atleast appreciate what we have somewhat. The F5E looks pretty cool, tempted to get it soon, I need something simpler to learn in I feel and this is what many people used to learn DCS in! Tuuvas, you legend! Keep it up!
better than ever? I started flightsims 2018 and the business model is the same. Eternal early access, abandoned modules, shit ton of sand maps... They still dont model clouds for IR lock like war thunder does, they still dont model EM aspect into radar like VTOLVR does, accuracy and fidelity is very questionable on a lot of modules, and fans still think they are paying for top notch product. Game still runs poorly, and instead of paying razban and prioritizing the important things, they are investing in more sand maps and clouds. DCS community just got tired honestly, and I think they were hella patient to begin with.
I haven't seen anything saying it does anywhere. Does the visual upgrade apply to the Flaming Cliffs version too since it's the same model? I doubt it does but I figured I'd ask anyway.
They either already had the scan data and used them to make the original wireframes, or never had the scan data and already did the work of doing 3D models based on images. So, like, what's the issue? It's higher quality, it's not like the instruments would have changed sizes any, and the model was already very good.
DCS is still the best combat flight sim ever created, and it is dream come true, for that little money we get so much ! who cares about that small stuff, given the scale of this magnificent sim!
By the way, Wags on the forum mentioned that we would look at updated radios and INS if the documentation could be found, so far its not been the easiest to research. If anyone has some good legal links I would be happy to pass along. Also... click bait... man, you are better than this ;)
lmao I'm sorry 9L. I saw the hoggit post and decided the best course of action was to commit the same crime T_T Glad to hear Wags is open to new features for the F-5E-3. Is there any info we can get to make sure what is researched applies to the correct version ED is recreating? Or would any F-5E documentation do?
IMHO, The "RazScam Affair" has made the DCS community even more toxic and angry than usual: the remastered F-5 is simply gorgeous, but people instead of enjoying it, waste time checking whether ED lied or not. This is simply crazy!
I agree, and why? You could (maybe still can, I don't know) get a refund. I did and got three other modules on sale that I'm enjoying the hell out of. I happily paid for the remaster, I really like the F-5.
Exactly, and the community took Razbam side without knowing the full picture of what's happening. I don't trust ED, but I don't trust Razbam too. They have their own bad history. That said, what ED did with the F-5E is what I think they should do with all other modules, instead of releasing another incomplete plane after another incomplete map
I got it for $3-4 so I'm not bothered too much. The RAZBAM shit though still annoys me, because I would have liked to have had the Mirage 2000 and Harrier at some point, but it's too risky to buy them now.
This nicely shows the differences - including those that obviously are not "vertex per vertext the old cockpit". I like the upgrade, I don't mind the price, not much was promised after all. I don't like the encrypted model (although I don't use it personally, I rarely used Model Viewer) and what it means to modding community - and I haven't heard anything clear about it. So it's a minor update, graphically nice, price is not the problem (for me). Now I just need more of those good old stock textures that are currently missing. ;-)
I really don't get this discussion and the hate, the "remaster" looks so much better. We can (and have to) criticize ED for the shit they pull all day but this is just kinda unneccessary.
it a good update to one of the first set of modules that came out the one thing you did miss was a update weapon list with the gbu-10 and gbu--16 bombs
I apologize for the incredibly clickbait title and thumbnail, but I need people to actually look at the differences between the Original and Remaster and be their own judge.
Pictures of 3D model wire frames and rage bait headlines just aren't going to cut it if we want people to actually know why they should be happy or upset about these things.
I do 3D modeling and CAD design/engineering, and I can say pretty definitively say that if the cockpit had in fact been remade from scratch, there is basically no plausible way for wireframes to match up the way that they do. This can be confusing to those who don't know what they're looking at, because at first glance the cockpit had a lot more geometry in the model, but the overall exterior shaping of most objects is identical, and there are several whole panels that are completely unchanged, without any geometry changes at all. You could take 100 people and give them the same references, and have them all build a new F-5 cockpit, and the most that would match in geometry might be small simple shape elements like circle or square buttons. But complex shapes basically couldn't be identical.
As someone who does this stuff for a living, the "new" cockpit is very obviously NOT made from scratch, it's an update of the old one. Much of the same geometry is visible, which basically shouldn't be possible if it were new. It's not really a matter of "deciding for yourself," especially if you don't know anything about 3d modeling. They're the same cockpits, the new one has just been slightly updated, mainly the weapon switches, emeg. Jett. Button cover, stick, seat cushion, pilot model, and some minor detailing on the right firewall panel. Basically the whole rest of the cockpit(which is most of it) is either identical, or has had some kind of bevel or subdivision surface modifier added, which can be pretty effortlessly done. Then ED encrypted the model, and it's the only plane in the game to be encrypted like that. Probably to make it harder to actually look at it and realize it's the same cockpit, until everyone had already bought it.
Compared to other upgrades this is a kick in the teeth. It's not about the money it's about the message
Well, I have some knowledge of 3D modeling, and here’s my take:
Exterior model: Built from scratch.
Interior model: Not entirely built from scratch. While some elements, like switches, buttons, and the control stick, seem to be new, the base mesh appears to be the same, with all the textures completely redone.
I’m pretty sure they had to create new UVs for the cockpit (due to the AO pass and other technical reasons), but overall, it seems they remastered the old 3D model, which was already quite good-there weren’t any visible polygons on curved surfaces or similar issues.
The pilot model is an outstanding piece of work and was clearly made from scratch.
Overall, I think the F-5 now looks excellent. Deciding whether the cockpit is "built from scratch" or not feels like a technicality. The term "remaster" fits well for what it is-it’s not a full remake.
As for the price, $10 as an optional upgrade where you lose nothing if you choose not to pay seems like a fair deal. Could it be better? Sure, there’s always room for improvement, but this is solid work. That said, claiming the interior was built entirely from scratch might be a stretch.
Additional note:
I don’t have any inside knowledge of the project’s development; this is just my personal opinion based on what I’ve seen in reviews and promotional videos. I’ve flown the F-5 a few times in the past but never purchased it because it felt outdated. Thanks to this upgrade, it’s now on my list, and as soon as I have the budget, I’m definitely buying the module.
It's $15 and based on some lie. From all the comment in this video, we know why DLC and microtransactions will never die and will always thrive. There's a lot of cows to milk in.
$6.99 at most
@@TrickerDCS but, but, but 7000h man hours 🥺
Sassy...
@@NineLineED lmao tricker spawned Nineline in the comments 😆🤣
Were the reflections 'remastered' as well?
I noticed that the glass gauges and the canopy reflections look so bad now that I turn the canopy reflection settings off completely.
The reflections look very low resolution and it's distracting.
It's most noticeable on the left side of the cockpit dashboard where the speed gauge and altitude gauge is at.
At least we don't have a cartoon looking flight stick anymore. The top of the flight stick, the weapon release button and trim switch looks much better now.
the wireframes having identical vertices means that it *is* the same model. the odds of them having many *identical* floating point values for location data in 3 axis, is very slim, even when modelling an identical object. The only time this is not the case is for VERY basic objects, like a 1m cube. The vertices matching is a smoking gun that it was straight up modified from the old one. They may think they told the modeller to make a new one, but the guy blatantly just updated the old one.
The same people that don't want to pay for ED's work are probably the same people that want to get paid when they do any little thing at work. Weird how that works. 10 is a small price to pay to support them and the sim we love.
Wouldve been cool if you discussed the reddit post. Kinda felt a bit dissapointing bringing it up as a sort of "Hey, look at this thing that says ED flat out lied. No idea if its true.", then dropping it and moving on. Otherwise a fine video
Way I see it, they musta done pretty good the first time around, because the remaster looks absolutely fine, but I had to squint to see improvement in some areas, though not others.
Feels like DCS community right now is complaining about everything, everyone I talk to right now says "DCS is trash now and ED has messed up and I dont wanna fly anymore!" when the sim is better than its ever been and we have gotten loads of really good and needed upgrades lately and in just 3 years gotten a heap of high quality modules, sure, things are going slow but thats the nature of these things, same thing goes for MSFS... heck, there we have to buy a new sim now to get the engine upgrades needed for helicopters to work.... and it got expensive!
So maybe people need to complain less and atleast appreciate what we have somewhat. The F5E looks pretty cool, tempted to get it soon, I need something simpler to learn in I feel and this is what many people used to learn DCS in!
Tuuvas, you legend! Keep it up!
Leave lying and sketchy PR out of it and I agree. It's the pr problems we're facing. Better to do something about it I think.
better than ever? I started flightsims 2018 and the business model is the same. Eternal early access, abandoned modules, shit ton of sand maps... They still dont model clouds for IR lock like war thunder does, they still dont model EM aspect into radar like VTOLVR does, accuracy and fidelity is very questionable on a lot of modules, and fans still think they are paying for top notch product. Game still runs poorly, and instead of paying razban and prioritizing the important things, they are investing in more sand maps and clouds. DCS community just got tired honestly, and I think they were hella patient to begin with.
Hey, what software do you use for recording in VR? I have not found one yet that looks as good as yours and is not through one eye only…..
I can see why people might not think it's worth it, but I would happily pay $10 for the same treatment for the L-39.
I really want to like the F-5 update, but also equally disappointed at the missed opportunity to bring an upgraded version to the sim (think Brazil).
I haven't seen anything saying it does anywhere. Does the visual upgrade apply to the Flaming Cliffs version too since it's the same model? I doubt it does but I figured I'd ask anyway.
It does not. FC2024 F-5E will continue to have the old model and old textures
They either already had the scan data and used them to make the original wireframes, or never had the scan data and already did the work of doing 3D models based on images. So, like, what's the issue? It's higher quality, it's not like the instruments would have changed sizes any, and the model was already very good.
DCS is still the best combat flight sim ever created, and it is dream come true, for that little money we get so much ! who cares about that small stuff, given the scale of this magnificent sim!
By the way, Wags on the forum mentioned that we would look at updated radios and INS if the documentation could be found, so far its not been the easiest to research. If anyone has some good legal links I would be happy to pass along. Also... click bait... man, you are better than this ;)
lmao I'm sorry 9L. I saw the hoggit post and decided the best course of action was to commit the same crime T_T
Glad to hear Wags is open to new features for the F-5E-3. Is there any info we can get to make sure what is researched applies to the correct version ED is recreating? Or would any F-5E documentation do?
Clickbait automatically gets a thumbs down.
IMHO, The "RazScam Affair" has made the DCS community even more toxic and angry than usual: the remastered F-5 is simply gorgeous, but people instead of enjoying it, waste time checking whether ED lied or not.
This is simply crazy!
I agree, and why? You could (maybe still can, I don't know) get a refund. I did and got three other modules on sale that I'm enjoying the hell out of.
I happily paid for the remaster, I really like the F-5.
@@FJFuentesCO Me too! The F-5 is probably my favourite module and with the remaster is now even better!
Exactly, and the community took Razbam side without knowing the full picture of what's happening. I don't trust ED, but I don't trust Razbam too. They have their own bad history.
That said, what ED did with the F-5E is what I think they should do with all other modules, instead of releasing another incomplete plane after another incomplete map
I got it for $3-4 so I'm not bothered too much. The RAZBAM shit though still annoys me, because I would have liked to have had the Mirage 2000 and Harrier at some point, but it's too risky to buy them now.
This nicely shows the differences - including those that obviously are not "vertex per vertext the old cockpit". I like the upgrade, I don't mind the price, not much was promised after all. I don't like the encrypted model (although I don't use it personally, I rarely used Model Viewer) and what it means to modding community - and I haven't heard anything clear about it. So it's a minor update, graphically nice, price is not the problem (for me). Now I just need more of those good old stock textures that are currently missing. ;-)
its ten bucks, got it with my miles cost me nothing I'm happy with the price
It doesn't matter what they did. It will never be good enough for people.😂😂😂
IMHO it's a Remaster, and looking at the results it worths the 10$ upgrade..but this again it's just my opinion
*TO ME* it's worth 10 bucks. That being said, I paid about 5 for it, given that I also used the Miles i had.
I really don't get this discussion and the hate, the "remaster" looks so much better. We can (and have to) criticize ED for the shit they pull all day but this is just kinda unneccessary.
i paid 99p for it
Got it with ED miles and it cost me the price of a cappuccino.
External model is New - cockpit is just beveld / chamfered and Baked … not build from scratch
I pay for upgrade and im happy.
Looks good...is only 10 bucks and made it look very noticably better.....DCS players will always be mad though wouldnt worry about it.
its the same cockpit with changed lighting and new textures. its still not the correct scale either
it a good update to one of the first set of modules that came out the one thing you did miss was a update weapon list with the gbu-10 and gbu--16 bombs
I will not be buying this
Reminds me of the super carrier lies. Super carrier is a scam at this point.
All this fretting from people about an optional upgrade that’s cheaper than a visit to Dunkin Donuts.
@@ryanw1433 for some it isnt. Does not change the fact they lied. No matter what it costs.
It's not about money. It's about being truthful. It's about an already damaged reputation.
great video!