Why we hate engineers
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- Опубліковано 3 лис 2022
- CNC Machining, or CNC milling... is a big task... where. Ya know what? Who reads this? UA-cam scans this to know who to recommend the video to. Target demographic, 16-35 engineers, or aspiring engineers. Mechanical Engineers. Manufacturing Engineers. Industrial Engineering. Steel. Aluminum, Titanium, Inconel, Metal.
Donate if you want: www.paypal.com/paypalme/CSGho...
Thumbnail by: / xx4706xx - Ігри
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Fun fact, game developments do work similar to this. We do really need this to show with our art designers and code engineers, this greatly helps.
Game development slipped into producing products instead of loving and making games. With corporate ESG ensuring the least talented people get jobs. That's a whole different can of worms but AAA is for sure struggling.
@@elimgarak1127 ok but uhh... who asked
@@ALittleBitCheesy *i asked*
@@ALittleBitCheesy Quite a few people. I've given up on anything western produced because of it.
@@duckkingersame
I learned all of these problems from an internship at a manufacturing company. The engineers sit high and mighty in their A/C offices while the CNC guys get the weirdest, most impossible instructions on the planet.
...are the machinists not in an air conditioned room too? Because if not, they should quit. It's a lot easier to prove you're a good machinist than fake being a good engineer, they shouldn't have a hard time getting a better job.
@@aluisious Nope, it was a large factory where we built cabinets, doors, shelves, you name it. The CNC milling, edgebanding, and jointer operators had the toughest times with the miscommunication and misunderstanding, with a lot of waste tools that were made for specific jobs and never used again. They showed me drawers of tools for the jointer, some years old that were used once. Anyway, we couldn't have A/C since the factory was so huge.
@@aluisious yeah if my machine shop doesn't have ac I'm going to be suspicious especially if its way above or below 70 degrees as that's the standard to calibrate machinery and measuring tools but for basic repair shops its not as big a deal
I’m a 19 yo machinist and in the little time I’ve been working this type of issue has already happened lots, honestly it’s frustrating. Thanks for this video its amazing, thank you!
That's a really misguided idea of how engineers work, at least from my experience *actually being a design engineer*
We go out all the time to do physical work, surveying, measuring, climbing up on top of shit because we can't find a pipe because it wasn't installed according to the drawing and nobody bothered to pass it on. Obviously that's not all engineers, but just my experience.
I feel like engineers get shit on more because it's perceived as punching up, while if complaints go the other way it's seen as punching down (which it kinda is).
I think there should be a reverse version of this video explaining all the things that are frustrating in the other direction. Like the aforementioned turning up to do a final quality check on the job site only to discover it's been fitted in a completely different way and now you have to redraw the entire thing. Because it seems there is a lot of emphasis on understanding it from the machinists point of view but what about the other way?
Like sure, that part with that tiny spigot sticking out looks really fucking stupid, but have you actually seen what it's being used for or fitted to? maybe there is a reason it's not just threaded in.
Maybe that surface finish is way too high for the actual purpose, but it's being made that way because it has to comply with a standard in order to be allowed to be used.
Maybe that is a really weird size of hole to drill out, but perhaps it has to be that way because there is a really weird connection it's got to fit.
If machinists in this case were given more context by designers it would make their job easier and in turn if the people fitting the parts (in this case "man with angle grinder") communicated why they had changed all that pipework around (eg, there's a random pipe that was fitted mid-way through us designing the fitment) instead of giving zero feedback then when we go to survey it will make sense and we can correct for that in the future.
TL;DR Communication is everything, instead of assuming one group (engineers, machinists, fitters) are stupid maybe ask why they chose to do it that way.
/rant over/
Hope youre doing well, maybe even making the next video. Looking forward to it for sure.
Bro, what?
uhh
Came back to watch it again ❤
@@Bretaxyread the community post
@@Sacraficed ?
I work in automation and I’m on my lunch break watching this. You’re describing everything so perfectly it’s insane I feel like you’re one of my coworkers
My sibling is a machinist, and I am a CAD professional, can confirm we are an EXCEEDINGLY dangerous combo
yeah that’s because designers typically don’t know what it actually takes to do certain things they think that because it can’t be designed it can just as easily be made, which is where the problem is created.
designers need to think in a much more practical way instead of extreme precision in situations where it’s not needed
@@payloadperformance9706then it's a bad designer. I'm a mechanical engineer, but also worked for 8 years in a factory doing almost any standard activities you can think of. But even people around me who didn't know a lot about the machinery. So if someone makes tons of unproducable things, it's just a bad engineer/designer
@@lothar654 John 3:16-For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life❤️✝️
@@payloadperformance9706 John 3:16-For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life❤️✝️❤
John 3:16-For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life❤️✝️
If you're wondering if this is a Half glass full or empty situation, remember that it doesn't matter for an engineer. The glass was made to the wrong specs.
Optimist: The glass is half full
Pessimist: The glass is half empty
Engineer: The glass is twice as big as it needs to be
@@CSGhostAnimation The glass is currently at 50% rated capacity and holding.
@@stonefish98 Architect says its needs to be 300% more than that
And this is why I love a whiskey glass I got that's perfect for soda. Idk how they made it, but it's the perfect size for longer gaming sessions when I forget it's on my desk.
@@CSGhostAnimationan informatic says: oooh we have 50% more space, it didnt overflow and create a khajidjlion errors
This should literally be taught to every mechanical/aeronautical/civil engineering student. Cannot tell you how many times I had machinists laugh in my face and reject prints early on in my career.
I actually work on spacecraft now and even then some of this is still applicable.
Same, I work in aerospace and the amount of work we have dedicated to backtracking on stupid designs is unfortunate 😂
ah yes my favourite thing, finding new interesting channels that haven’t uploaded in the last year
ghost has been going through some rough shit go easy on him.
My dad did CNC. He worked at a company that did government contracts. One of the things he had to make were brass rings. We went to the NASA museum in Huntsville and there was a missile and had brass rings to hold the explosives in place in the head of it. He stood there for a minute then goes "So that's what those rings were for."
LOL
Unintentionally had a hand in making bombs
Think he might have fucked em up?
If you like it, put a ring on it!
Oh boy, I can only imagine his surprise
machinist and designer is one scary combo, they can literally make anything they want as long as it's in the realm of possibility
I have a friend that streams some art stuff, and he said those stupid stupid words... "If they just made a *insert here* it would be easier". Immediately pulled up my CAD, sliced my model up, and had a printed prototype in about 6 hours... the shipping from amazon for the parts allows me the day or two to program it....
time travel machine
Edit: For those dumbasses that couldn't tell, this was a joke!
@@10054 ... Well... I uhh... shit...
Something something exotic material something something gotta wait for the chemical guys to make that.
@@10054
Something something this breaks causality so it's impossible shid
Blackhole summoning machine.
I worked as a production engineer for a while and was essentially the go-between for design and machinists. This video is right on the money.
Current student and I've been impressed with the teaching of my professors. They really elevate the value of a machinist's input. I'm taking a CADCAM class and the professor iterates over and over the importance of communicating with your machinists and relying on the knowledge they have. They also have emphasized that for any given project, find out what tools are actually on hand and be familiar with what they can do. No point designing for one machine over another if the combination lathe/mill isn't actually in your shop.
the "have someone from another team in your team to make sure your stuff isnt stupid" (point 5) works for almost all professional workspaces
The cupholder doesn't start at the Desing Engineer. It starts in the Design Studio where it is specified to weigh less than a gram, be infinitely stiff, and be able to travel back through time. The Engineer brings it from "literally impossible" to "possible, but difficult" and the fabricator says, "Why are you giving me this incredibly difficult thing?" The fabricator hates the engineer for making his life difficult and the designer hates the engineer for ruining his perfect cupholder.
but everyone hates the environmental qual guy, so they have that to bond over.
Are no not a fan of the designers 30 storey upside down pyramid, or a manifold that could be done if we had the budget NASA blew on Atemis and SLS combined for a HVAC unit or Corolla suspension arm?
Can be done, should be done, bloody worlds apart.
😂😂👍
This should be on a shirt. A really large shirt
Look up the dash board cup holder in the Lexus Sc300 for the definition of impossible to possibly but didn't. It's not actually that complex but still a bit wild of a design
Just popped in to say I love your art style and can't wait for another video.
Keep going, Ghost. Never stop pushing
Waiting half a year for an upload is still worth it for this amazing content + he deserves it because UA-cam won’t give him money
vrrrr
Wait... There are smart people in the world!
Thrue
Damn true
For real. If the support feature is still around by the time I get steady income, I'm making a section of my spare cash to just support the creators I love to watch, including Ghost.
As machinist, I can’t tell you how true this is of how designers piss off me and my work colleagues. I’m so happy someone made a video of our untold suffering.
It comes down to respect for other trades/professions. No one tradesperson or engineer knows everything. If you respect and are prepared to ask the expert in their field for advice, you're going to be much better off.
As an engineer, we always have review meetings with fabricators before ever project milestone. Never seen anyone complain about the final designs. It's literally part of the process, but I guess it's in process because my organization is old and they worked out all the kinks a long time ago.
my dad got more pissed off at his managers more than the parts he had to make.
Challenge them to a mortal combat
As a software engineer, I can not tell you how true this is:
Web Developers without Design Experience VS Designers without any Developer Experience = 🔥
one of the best constructed videos on youtube. Entertaining and informative, well animated and incredible pace. Its so good
Dude is like when architects forget that their buildings have to be built.
Working as a designer, (13 years experience) I can give 100% approval to that list of bullet points. Sometimes you can't, but if you CAN, follow that friggin' list, that's rock-solid advice.
The lengths I will go in order to respect every bullet point on that list.
I have redesigned entire assemblies just for that one part so that it fits those bullet points.
As a machinist, absolutely yes.
As a former machinist who became a design engineer, you’re doing God’s work.
The boss way for "fine I'll do it myself"
What is exactly a design engineer? I am starting university next year and I really want to work for something like that
@@lu011 mechanical engineering would be the designer’s specialty in this case
@@gentlejello thank you
@@lu011 it's the guys who actually design the stuff, the other ones build it
I absolutely love the Flipnote type animation and drawings. brought me back to the good ole days. Subscribed
damn with this and the PC video gotta be one of my favorite chanels, cant wait for the next drop
the art style, the design, the content flow, the pacing, the everything - it's perfect.
I'm studying design engineering while also working in a machining shop, and this is how i see it play out all the time. Shit's wild.
Are the air horns at the end perfect?
Yes
Yupp , studied engineering and am a maschinist, to be fair that is the thing they drilled while studing, tolerances as course as possible.
duck
Im currently studying mechanical engineering, any more tips before i look for somewhere to intern for my final year?
As a teenager majoring in C.N.C operating and part designing this is really accurate,props for going so in depth with engineering and the many annoyances that comes with it
As someone who's not a C.N.C major, i third
As a design engineer I've seen shit like tap depth=drill depth in a blind hole just months in starting my career and the r&d boys doing the design be like oH iT's cOoL jUsT uSe a sPiRaL fLuTe tAp
C.N.C major, I fourth.
As someone whos worked with C.N.C and decided I'm not nearly qualified enough to touch this stuff, I fifth
As someone who only took a year of cnc machining for a certification, i sixth
This is actually very important. Great video.
Can't wait for the next video. I'm sorry to hear about the cancer situation. I honestly thought you quit until some dude in the comments told me about community post. I didn't even know what those where so thanks whoever you are.
Engineer Gaming.
Medic gaming.
Scout Gaming.
Engineer Gaming.
Engineer gaming
Engineer gaming
I'm not a designer, I'm not a machinist. I assemble. The part where they bolted the glorious part to the wall for a cup holder slayed me.
Edit: I'm a machinist now, still dead, but only inside.
I'm a engineer, i still dont like the designer, so arrogant and wont let me speak sh*t
Assemblers aren't exactly in the fray, it's the people who have to take assemblies apart for repair that hate engineers
@@jankington216 there is a field of design theory called “design for maintenancel
Ah, so you're on the team with the dwarf (because _somehow_ , in their infinite wisdom, the designers only left enough space for a child's hand to fix the last piece inside of the assembly)
@@jankington216 I do both assembly and repair work on specific large machines. Both scenarios leave our people hating engineers. The machine being assembled often has various issues. Sometimes there's issues with space for various parts. Sometimes holes are too precise and no longer fit properly due to slight warping from shipping or the combined many tiny imperfections from other assembled parts. I don't understand how something designed for a hose doesn't have enough space to fit the hose. I swear these engineers have special tools they made for their work and didn't think about the assemblers that won't have them or the potential differences in space each site needs.
I've kinda been avoiding watching this because of that thumbnail, but cuz of the views, I figured it was worth watching. Legitimately quality info
As a mechanical engineering student in his junior year. I found this shit SO entertaining and it actually taught me so much about what exactly I’m getting in too. I’m actually excited to become and engineer bc of this video
Who here started off knowing nothing about CNC milling, but now can give some advice to a multi billion dollar business?
As a mechanical engineer in design engineering, this vid was a pleasant surprise
i still know nothing about cnc milling
i know alot about cnc's but i didnt know the stuff gets recycled but i still doubt they get recycled cause most companys are cheapskates
Me
@InitialKettle The character "Imposter" from the hit indie game "Among us"
I love how the jokes aren’t just funny but they actually serve as really great analogies to what is being discussed
Those aren't analogies, they are anecdotes!
It's real!
Oh all of those are real.... it's scary how accurate each of those 5 points are, as I have experienced the consequences of not understanding them when being on the design side of things :-)
Yeah lmao 5:55
Amazing creativity man seriously
Awesome vid. Every kid in engineering school needs to see this.
As a mechanical design engineer for 10 years, i approve this video is 100% accurate. Maybe one more point, is to ask the machinist on what’s their available raw material to reduce lead time.
There was a couple things I didn't agree with but they are minor. I have never done a revision to a part when it hadn't been manufactured first or built in any way. In addition to that he said to always use standard radii while that could be true for something like a fillet it wouldn't matter for an exterior corner. I actually thought he was talking about exterior corners until he showed a fillet tool then I realized his picture was a side view and not a top view. Interior corners are something else where we want the corner to be just some amount larger then a standard tool so they can sweep it around and not chatter in the corner. If the radii is standard size they have to undersize the end mill to mill it with a good finish. So the saying always use standard radii isn't true.
That's all I got.
@@jasonmurawski4917 Use standard radius WHERE APPLICABLE. (Caps because cursive doesn't exist on YT comments)
Uggh yeah I got it lol I’m a cnc machinist worked on Nova’s
@@chillreznov0227 We go through all this engineering and standard core classes in university just to have a dude go online and show us that "somehow" english comp was just not his thing, huh. I am irritated for you bro.
@@chillreznov0227 You can type italics by adding underscores before and after the parts you want italicized. _Example_. The period keeps it from working, but makes it perfect to show what I mean.
The even scarier combo is when the Machinist and the Designer are the same person, like a designer that's been trained in manufacturing and assembly processes, or a machinist that's been trained in design.
This is a closer approximation to the differences I saw when changing from mechanical engineering to mechanical engineering technology.
thats just the normal way to teach us in switzerland. designer and machinist go to 4 years of school together and learn both crafts. after that we go both to the same university and make our bachelor and masters. and then see us again in the company 5 years later
There's a term for this person: toolmaker
@@richardpatterson5988 there are more than just the toolmakers that do this
being a former engineering student gone welder/fabricator, yes
I just discovered this channel, this is insane! 🔥🔥🔥
congrats on the 500k my guy
I’m at uni for engineering now and there’s a huge emphasis on getting manufacturing experience and being constantly aware that other people are going to have to read and build your designs. Everything we do is based on trying not to have the machine shop guys yell at us lol.
I did landscaping for a big corporation and we had an in house engineer for our repair and maintenance work, one thing I learned very early on was to make friends with him and make sure anything i turned it was clearly documented and prepped to the best of my ability to make repairs as smooth as possible. Somehow, I always got my gear back the fastest out of anyone at the shop. Weird how that works
@@kingsly3690 Screw innovation let me copy paste a part from an old volvo and put it in this structurally integral area of this spacecraft
@@kingsly3690 for power transmission systems we mostly “copy”
@@snakedeadly Design me a transmission, don't use any system that's been used before.
I'm also in engineering, mechanical, and the sad truth is it's all a giant waste of time. In 5 years AI will be doing the designs and calculations, that's why they're so focused on manufacturing experience now. It's not because of the technologists feelings, if that was the case they would have been making more emphasis to this decades ago. Nope. The truth is engineers are being replaced, just like so many others. AI can design stuff all it wants, but without technologists to operate the systems, AI is useless. *Engineers are just expensive design programs.*
(soon to be) aerospace engineer here, this is engineering 101. The most important things we learned in our engineering class was to not overdo tolerances for basic shit, our teacher had a 3D printer on the rough setting for one project and we had to print and assemble a wing brace retrofit. Most of our class's models didn't fit together the first time because 3D printers always thicken everything a little bit (a 5mm hole might be a 4.5mm hole, a 5mm peg might be 5.5mm peg), so a bunch of people had to file stuff down, but then a few people had the issue of unrealistic thinness where their model would snap in half due to how thin they were. Watching this video in advance probably would have saved most of the class a bunch of time but I'm pretty sure this was meant to be a "learn it the hard way" project to *drill* the point in
Horizontal expansion should have been corrected in the slicer settings, rather than the model.
First off, buy a 3d printer. It's such a great hobby to do while you go through college. You'll also learn basically all your CAD stuff without even trying.
Second, 3d printing has a ton of parameters, and you can drastically change results by tampering with settings. CNC Kitchen does a great job of going in-depth on individual parameters. You can watch those and combine some techniques to build some quite strong and impressive parts. But for things like holes, I almost always drill them (to the final diameter). If there's no requirement to pull parts straight off the printer and into the assembly, use a drill, a tapping set, a woodworking chisel, and some strong glue (epoxy or CA would be my choice). Those tools will allow you to do a ton with 3d printing for tolerances and mechanical fits.
@@SealFredy5 I actually have had the opportunity to get a ton of CAD experience even before graduating high school - I worked with designing CAD files for our robitics team, and we had an aerospace engineering class in our high school which was heavily cad focused
And I was told almost exact opposite as my teachers required to describe everything what doe not really needs to be described
So you fkrs do learn that sht yet you f clowns still do it jesus fk man
Sorry for your loss man, i hope youre still ok.
I cant believe how many times ive slept on this amazing vid
The fact that this guy can make a random topic i didn't know I wanted to know super fun is impressive.
The beauties of *delivery* and *execution*
I am an engineer, but at the end of my studies I had the fortune of working a lot with a machinist who would make us try to manufacture the shit we drew. Being with him for a year was an invaluable experience
As a Engineering Technician in the Electronics industry l agree.
I've always believed that an engineer should have to to spend a certain amount of time on the manufacturing floor to see what's actually happening and how things are being used so they design more effectively.
I worked for a Fortune 500 in the 80's and 90's. My job was to help production take the prototypes and engineered drawings from corporate engineering to the production floor by providing tooling, equipment, jigs and fixtures. More than once I pissed off an "engineer" by telling him his "work of art wasn't practical and we were making these changes in production, revise your drawings."
Yeah one of the things that stuck with me pretty well was, every 0 you add for precision after a decimal, adds at least that many 0's before the decimal on your cost. So say what you mean. Also JUST TALK TO THE MACHINIST. Ask them to give you advice, use the expertise of people who do shit on a daily basis, Why think you know it all when you can leverage someone who actually knows what you need.
Classic spy talking points.
average scout main:
I am a ex-machinist and was moved over to an office together with a engineer some years ago... This video is just so true, the moment the company was moving us together into the same team they just saved a lot of money every day. I showed to him the "real world" and he teached to me how to make technical 3D drawings. Win-win :)
This is my experience too. I work on separate teams than our manufacturers. We send them drafts to get manufacturability feedback, which sometimes works but nothing is as effective as when they come up and you happen to be finishing up a design and just can run through every option and usually converge on some really efficient design changes that are convenient for both parties.
I was fortunate enough to work with a manual machine shop (no CNC) during my first engineering job, and from day 1 every single design would have to get his OK before we made it. It really taught me how to consider manufacturing first and then work in function around that. It's saved me a lot of headache and back-and-forth to work this way, and I use the skills from that job to this day (12 years into my engineering career). CNC can do stuff manual machines can't, obviously, but learning tricks for making things into bricks with holes has made my manufacturing costs way cheaper and usually guarantees I can get the parts quicker and with fewer mistakes.
@@Gecko88 thank you, everyone is now smarter and more enlightened by your pretentious correction of a UA-cam comment.
@@Gecko88 Dude, this is the WORLD WIDE WEB. Not everyone speaks English as a first language. Now if you want to help people learn English Grammar, end it with "I know, English is tricky."
Technical drawings are 2D not 3D ;) -Designer
I loved it! You did a great job!
just found your channel and love your content. i see you havnt posted in a while but hope to see you post something else soon man!
I'm a design engineer and work in a machine shop. It has taught me all these things. It helps when you can just go into the back and talk to the machinist and be like "Hey so what size drill bits/taps do we have around this size? That one? cool that's what I'll put in the design." Just makes things go much smoother.
Hence the point about the standard charts. Any shop is going to have most if not all of the nominal sizes on the imperial or metric chart. It's when something very specific that's between sizes with no tolerance room is called for that causes headaches. Sure we can get a tap for 1/4 -23 threads but if your design can accept 1/4-20 we have a drawer full of those and can have the part ready before lunch. Do it the hard way and it's weeks to get the tap and every time your bolt brakes you need custom bolts to make it fit.
It would be way better if you could spend couple months in each position, I'm pretty sure company would have nothing against it. Just talking to machinists does make life easier for everyone, but doesn't do the justice because of how many factors come at play. For example, even a slight difference in material hardness makes a big difference in tool life and overall costs, better designe can drastically decrease production cycle time.
As an engineer who regularly works with machinists, this is astonishingly accurate. To all you engineers out there, please talk to your fabricators before you release that drawing. That includes, welders, tooling & assembly technicians, and even the painting team if you have one. They will be able to offer very valuable advice to speed things up and keep things inexpensive. You get to go home early. they get to go home early. Bosses are happy. Everyone's happy.
Boss stay`s longer to find more work so you don`t go early too often ^^ But yes you can ask for a lot more money if you let the company make a lot more by preventing as many design iterations as possible.
@@MrHaggyy Yeah, usually you should be able to find something else that needs doing.
How do you become an engineer?
@@wifinesesi in the US: earn an ABET accredited engineering degree. If you want to be a Professional Engineer, you additionally need to pass two certification exams, and work for a number of years under other Professional Engineers.
This is so underrated in every creative engineering field. Downstream workers/customers should make more visits to upstream teams. Could probably save a loot of dollar bills and maybe level up the market fit while at it.
I have no need of this knowledge, but thoroughly enjoyed learning it. Good stuff
YOUR ART STYLE IS SO EPIC
I have literally never been interested in milling and somehow this man just made it fun to learn about it
Exactly. Suddenly I want to be a machinist.
As somebody who’s worked as a CNC machinist, I can honestly say well done on explaining why so many machinists get annoyed with engineers/designers… or at least why there is occasional friction. What’s also impressive is it seems like you don’t even have a background in machining but nailed everything.
One time the shop I worked at was making a part for the Tesla factory in Fremont, and I was the one who had to deliver the part after it was done. In the drawing it just said “Transducer” at the top, but really it was for a large panel and they asked for tight tolerances. We took the part really serious because, well, it’s Tesla. When I delivered the finished product, which took me forever because driving through Tesla factory was confusing as fuck, I finally found the department that ordered it. The engineers who designed it just placed it on their table with their arms crossed-looking all excited, with me awkwardly standing there. Finally I asked what they were gonna do with it. Well it turns out that it had literally nothing to do with their cars, and they were just gonna use it for their personal speaker box in the garage. Wtf.
they paid for it at the end of the day and if theres extra tolerances not needed they paid for that also. Just consider it the idiot tax and move on with a chuckle
@@Redd_Nebula true 😂
all he's talked about so far is some of the very basic stuff we've learned to keep in mind when designing. is that not normal? if I come up with a design with a bunch of custom sizes I will be scrutinized very closely on why I needed that and prolly not pass
@@Redd_Nebula It's a virtue to do the job right, even if you could make more money being crooked
@@group555_ real life is messy.
I'm don't work in anything related to these fields but the explanation was pretty clear and easy to follow. Good job.
okay you just hyped me up to become an engineer so much lol
My father was an aerospace engineer in the 1950s & 60s, working on (for example) the TOW Missile Launcher. As a junior engineer, he chose to eat lunch with the machinists rather than the other engineers. He'd bring his designs and get the machinist's feedback. They taught him these same five lessons (pretty much).
What amazed him -- he told my brothers and I, years later -- was that none of the other engineers did likewise. He said it was a status problem. Engineers were College-educated, and thought that they were socially superior to trade-school machinists. My dad didn't care about status; he just wanted to design systems that did the job reliably at the lowest cost. Not a social climber, he.
Don't be a class-conscious a**hole. Learn from everyone.
lol
in my video I said "don't skim in hiring fabricators because they're dirty of the swear, or soaked in coolant"
I actually had spilled some coolant on myself as I was editing that, lol
This is being slightly pedantic but your dad was being class conscious by working with the machinists. This is because Marx saw the divide between the working and middle classes as an artificial divide created by the bourgeoisie so that the workers would fight amongst themselves instead of uniting to overthrow the owning class.
@@rykermoorcroft4474 to add to the pedanticism I would say that, given the context, he never actually said don't be class-conscious or even that his dad wasn't class conscious. He specifically said don't be a "class-conscious a**hole" XD
Dude I’m an engineer and it’s actually the machinists that are the smart ones 100%
@@CSGhostAnimationghost why do you have coolant while recording
As a mechanical engineering student, this is why I'm also taking a machining class as a technical elective. It's very important to not only know HOW to design a part, but also how it's going to be BUILT!
It will definitely make you a better engineer. Working with design engineers and planners made me a better machinist.
Hmm, that comment lead me to a question I've always had: Are you from USA and if so, how long is your education?
@@VikingRul3s I'm currently working towards a 4 years bachelor's degree in Mechanical Engineering, in Indiana, USA. I may go for my masters afterwards, which is another year.
@@markmcculfor6113 I see, well then it's very similar to Denmark. Thank you for replying :)
I tried taking machining as an elective in college and was told it was beneath me. I wish I stuck to my guns and took the class anyway.
I watched this before and after completing my engineering design course this semester, and all those points make so much more sense now that I understand what's going on and have heard all this before from professors and engineers in different fields.
Awesome video
I had no idea I would find something like machining, quality standards, CNCing, tolerances, actually interesting.. Your animations and presentation style through your videos is just amazing. Keep it up man!
Thanks for the donation!!
Also this fake comment replying to you is from a bot-- I honestly can't believe I've never seen it before. This is the first time my channel has had bot spam...
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@@CSGhostAnimation the plague is spreading
+++
@@CSGhostAnimationwhen did you get the thumbnail made? Like on what day exactly?
@@CSGhostAnimation the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming.. the fog is coming..
This is amazing. As someone who has worked on both sides of the industry, I absolutely endorse this information. I also laughed my arse off with the leaf thickness; I've been in that exact position, but a good machinist can do absolute miracles, but it's a well known fact that the account of beer of your have to bribe them with is a direct inverse correlation to the material thicknes you want them to work with.
Well depends on that they make having thin ass material and contures on samething well shit better pack same additional beer but just extrem thin starting material is actually pretty easy just make additional tools for the job yeha takes time but saves quite same nerve
So the thicker the machinist, the thinner the product
This is unbelievably good
Your best video so far!!!! Keep it up :)
As an engineer that works in aerospace, I vibe with this but in a different way lol. I have to oversee so much crap, and there are some horror stories when our contrators are not closely babysat because they cut corners.
Infamously in my field of avionics, Lockheed and Northrup working together on the F-35 did something embarrassingly stupid. These planes are stuffed to the brim with highly sensitive electronics and wiring. They need a special type of insulated, twisted wire to prevent electromagnetic interference between wires and from radio emissions. It's very basic stuff, but do you know what is cheaper? Regular old straight wire, perfectly susceptible to EMI. So during testing, they did what I can only describe as a taking a hyper advanced, 53 uber-gajillion dollar flying supercomputer, and fully wiring it with bargain-bin straight wire. When the adults (paying customers) came back into the room to fly their new 42069 cuckillion dollar death machine, nothing worked. It had to be taken apart and rewired on the contractors' dime, wasted a lot of schedule time, and heavily pissed off the government people overseeing it.
This is why we don't let contactors do things without strict oversight lol. People with my job of what is basically "small team of engineers working for paying customer overseeing large team of contracted engineers" have to be very cynical and nitpicky.
Electromagnetic interference [EMC] (and stealth) is the new kid on the block and cuts through everything. The biggest 'problem' is the `mechanoids` who haven't realised that metals are conductive and hence part of EMC design. It's easy to accidentally compromise designs every which way - It's like "what if plastering was part of electrical circuits"
You lost all credibility when you spelled Northrop wrong...
@@prelude12341 you don't work with engineers much do you
If you think a single spelling mistake can undermine an engineer's credibility, then boy do I have the Description fields of some ECOs to show you lol
@@brandonthesteele I'll have you know I'm top of my departmint at spelling.
The funnies thing is that by what you say, they could have just fucking grabbed some CAT6 cable (heck maybe 5e?) and even if out of spec, I don't imagine it would make completely ridiculous problems surface, but no let's save some pennies out of the many millions.
Sounds like someone at Rolls & Royce looking at the BOM and thinking "hhmmm... We should save money by not clear coating the wood panels!"
As a machinist this is gold. I've had way too many projects land on my desk without being part of the design process only to have everything you said come true.
Yeah, just start drilling in and take a left.
As a lead in a machine shop, I had a sign above my desk, featuring a medium looking into a crystal ball, that read "Communicating with Engineers is only a little more difficult than communication with the dead".
Huh, you learn something new from descriptions every day.
My brother is studying mechanical and electrical engineering (so proud of him by the way).
While I do not know much about any of thr professions discussed in this video (am accountant/commercial controller so I do see the 'waste' everytime on PnL), your video today is most helpful to him since his project so happens to require a machinist.
From a grateful oldest brother,
Many thanks and keep up the good work!
If you’d like to learn more specific things about machining I suggest inheritance machining for the manual stuff and a few videos from titans of cnc for the automated stuff
Bro you're such an underrated UA-camr, you don't ask for a lot but yet, you deliver high quality shit, good job man
why are you purple
@@MsZsc he donated money with his comment (like a boss)
W moment
@@MsZsc How old are you my boy?
@@MsZsc he ate too much paint :(
As a mechanical engineer, I've dealt with this exact thing. So I'm taking classes I fabricating and machining so I can have a much better understanding of what can be made/made easily
Spend more time on the shop floor and learn to give and take a lot of cussing.
I'm talking drunken sailor with 3 ex wives kind of swearing.
You will most likely be on the receiving end.
Rather than walking around in a daze, look at the tools and ask yourself: "How the Fuck am I going to build this with these tools?"
That is after you get back with that left handed screw driver.
Most of this shit should be common sense tbh, if not from an engineering standpoint then from a business standpoint, shouldn't be wasting material makings designs that can't be made, and shouldn't use bits or tapping dies that are only gonna be used once.
In doing so you are making the lives of us machinists much easier, thank you
Exact same thing I do as an EE. Dad was a lineman so I became a groundman while I studied at school so that I know what really happens on the ground, there’s nothing more that blue collar guys hate more than a pencil pusher that doesn’t know what he’s talking about or hasn’t done it himself
@@Kumquat_Lord get to work and stop whining filthy machinist 💪🏾
Terms unrecognized. Interest peaked regardless. Well done!
I've seen this video like 20 times and I still love it
The way it should be done reminded me of when my engineer girlfriend worked with an artist to make some large outdoor sculptures. The artist had no understanding of material strength or wind pressure but was willing to listen. So between the two of them, a beach front sculpture became a reality without going over budget, which is to say out of the artists pocket.
What material was the sculpture made from?
@@mahmerkhan1287 titanium xD
Good ending! Yay!
your profile picture is wild my guy, is that your girlfriend ???
I’m not in the industry, but this was so easy to follow that even I could follow along with it. A comprehensive tutorial all throughout, and a hell of an entertaining one to boot. Well done!
I thought this was a tf2 video
Me to
Found you randomly and love your stuff, hope you’re doing well man.
When my favorite animation youtuber posts a video about MY profession (machinist) and nails the explanation of the struggles of my people so thoroughly… all I can do is throw money at you. Genius level intellect sir well done. MILL GO BRRRRRRRRRR
Idk why mill go brr made me laugh so hard after praising his intelligence😂
I hope it's as good as people say it is, I'm studying to become one and it's some very tough stuff hope it's worth the effort
This really helped me understand why everything in aerospace is so expensive.
I don't know *why* youtube recommended me this but damn it was a fun thing to watch.
Just finished this unit two weeks ago in my engineering design course, I'm happy to report that they are in fact teaching this to the new engineers.
As a electrical engineer working in a completely unrelated field, I can totally vibe with this. Gold plating designs is a problem that plagues most industries and I can confirm that having even a single individual on the team with some extensive field experience makes a world of difference. We have this one engineer that worked in operations for 8 years and I cannot count the number of times he fixed a design for me based on what they can or will actually do in the field.
I'm an aircraft electrician with very little access to the engineers who design the product. Very frustrating. We work miracles every day to create a viable product in spite of thier designs. I see where the miracles will have to occur as soon as I lay eyes on the new engineering and I wonder how they don't see it. I loved your comment and I loved this video. Always trying to foster peace between MFG and ENG.
@@dankelly4984 That must be a really cool job! I used to work in construction management and now I work in consultant engineering so I've definitely been the guy cursing the stupidity of the engineers and the one looking at it going "well it looks great on paper, lets see how we screwed it up!" As a consultant engineer the most frustrating thing can be having a customer demand that we design something in a certain way, despite our objections to it, and then getting a call from them three months later asking why the construction contractor is saying it can't be built! It happens more than you might think...
I'm in the engineering field as well... Design build teams are common and effective for getting things built cost effectively but it's not for everyone... Some people would rather work for an architect than a contractor.
@@dankelly4984 I've worked in the same field, both with limited/no engineering access and worked on projects with engineers on the floor. It is night and day difference when you can point at the physical airframe and discuss it, face to face.
I'm an Engineering Technician in the electronics industry. Do have any idea how many times l changed the board design?
While in school they had us do a two week long summer class about welding. It was pretty much just a way for us to try out the equipment and perform some really bad welds haha. At the end we had a chance to ask the welders some questions and as we were doing engineering I asked "what are some things engineers commonly do that you hate?". Oh man, they had a ton to say about that haha. Eventually the instructors had to tell them to stop as my question had taken up the entire allotted time.
Ooo what were some of the things they said?
@@sheepsong5681 oh, sadly I don't remember the specifics now. But I do remember the overall theme of the stories I got. Essentially most of the stories revolved around designs that made assembly next to impossible. Welds needing to be done on the inside of closed spaces, welds needing to be done at the seem of two converging walls that only left inches of space, that sort of thing.
Many years ago I designed a crawler track frame. There were some internal welds to the frame. When I pointed that out to the fitter who was tacking it together he was not happy as he had progressed beyond being a “welder”. Then there was the engineering manager. He viewed me as a threat to his position. I had and have no interest in being an engineering manager.
Too many anti-personnel departments. I left engineering. Besides SCH E beats W2
I've been a welder for 13-years and this is the main motivation for me now starting to learn designing myself. this "welders eye" is a huge advantage for designing.
@@unibeastbeats
Having a practical eye is frequently missing in design engineering. The fact that I had both experience in welding and machining as well as what hardware was available and where to get it was a benefit to the design work I was doing. It is still beneficial for my hobbies.
This was quite entertaining and informative, more so for me because my dad is a machinist making farm implement parts.
That's why as an Industrial Designer, you not just have to design stuff, you need to build a model, too. You learn reeeally quick what can and can't be built.
i love the little birds yall gave each other when you were telling us to hire a fabricator.
Cause I THINK this was a real life scenario and you added it as an inside joke. love that.
As someone who has worked in mechatronics but never focused on CAD or CNC, this video was really interesting, loving your content bro.
How did you pay to write a comment
x2
me three
@@gugybuby8065 he can
So our school sent us to other school a few months back to pick one to go to after we finish elementary (europe 9 years), and we went to a technic school, this and that experience really showed me how amazing the world of engineering and cnc machines is :)
I think the mashinist and designers put out a hit on him. Its been so long
I have worked as both a machinist AND engineer (sometimes at the same time...) This is a great list. I would clarify #3 to be sometime like:
- "Don't design something near a materials limits unless it's going to be on a spacecraft/aircraft and very microgram counts."
- "If the part would be less complex as 2 parts attached together, then it should be 2 parts."
(The 2nd one is a bit hard to wrap your head around in theory, but works out in practice)
Navy contracts seem to ignore those points entirely. I hate having to destroy an entire box or circuit board from a limited global supply because a screw or pin broke. The Navy wants damn perfection every time and it's enforced by government contract, so they'll treat shortcuts like treason even if it means months or years of delay and an extra billion dollars from the taxpayer. It's insane
@hyronvalkinson1749 Maybe the focus should be on repairablity, reliability, and cost? Instead of precision for the sake of precision?
@@bestaround3323 Absolutely. But furthermore it's politicians and brass making stupid decisions without consulting the ones who actually fo the work in order to appease other equally stupid administrators.
Second one in my brain translation.
Easier to cut it?
Ye..
THEN CUT IT AND SHUSH
@@slutforpotetoes2993 Honestly it goes for the replaceability too. Breaking a stem and replacing a stem (especially if you have a part number) is great. Breaking a stem and replacing the whole damn thing is terrible.
Mechanical engineer student here, I really admire all the little details found here that were resonated by my professors. One of them told me a story of how one of her students who went on to work for an aeronautics company submitted a design for a bolt that was going to cost the company millions to make. Apparently she gave them tolerances of .0005mm (Idk how many leading zeroes there were but it was way more than necessary)......for a single bolt
I might keep this video on hand for new members of our robotics club because some of them have not the slightest clue on how 3D printing and CNC machining actually works and submit CAD that is damn near impossible to make for what they're asking
yeah got a similar story, not a mech engineer but we had to have mech engineer classes part of our degree. Story of my prof was how someone wanted a form out of sheet metal welded . you could have made the part my just bending average sheet metal and tig welding it but the problem was the designer for some reason wanted so precise welds that you would have to do laser welding and the sheet metal was supposed to be I think 0.01mm thin "because it was mathematically strong enough".
The head machinist of the company after reading this basically asked the designer to come down and show him how he would do it cause the head machinist couldnt figure it out... well the designer proceeded to take the drawing and tell them he will come back with something that works XD.
Luckily in younger generations most mech engineering training already includes all the 5 mentioned points because the teachers had to learn it the hard way that these teachings are necessary
@@dergunter1237what 0.01 mm? As thin as bacteria
@@raynaldisugatamawiranata1578 some bacteria yes. There was not much force on the sheet at all yet the solution was still bs and the designers goal was to minimize on weight while increasing surface area but it didnt work for obvious reasons.
The problem is that a lot of designers tend to have no practical experience in production so they never question as long as the numbers are right
That's like an order of magnitude more precise than the average machining tools companies can get their hands on
Not to mention making a reference to compare it to, which would need to be 10 times as precise for calibrating measurements
It would be practically impossible to get an iso 9000 certification for it
Just curious do aerospace bolts and screws really require high tolerances? Can't you use some regular M* threads?
Your vids are sick bro!!!
Actual engineer who has been working in the manufacturing industry for over a decade now.
These issues are why a lot of manufacturing companies hire method agents now. Their job is literally to define how to manufacture a part designed by the engineer before it reaches the machinist. They would even simulate the manufacturing process and decide on the toolings needed to produce it.
Also, mechanical engineering has changed a lot over the last decade. Now the majority of mechanical engineering degree include a "design for manufacturing" type of classes where they teach future engineers how to design a part in a way to optimize the manufacturing process.
As someone studying engineering, this was actually surprisingly educational. Learned more from this than the entire CAD course.
Go see if the machine shop at your university has any openings for you to help around the shop, or even just shadow some of the machinists. I have a background in ME and ended up falling into becoming a precision machinist at my current job, making metal stamping dies. The lack of hands on, real life, common sense training most engineers are lacking could be resolved with some real world training, plus it's way more fun to actually make the stuff yourself!
Always think about how a part will be manufactured. And always think about how parts will be physically assembled. You don't want to design something that is physically impossible to put together.
@@johnbirkholz994 I’m in a mechanical engineering program at a trade school and we are required to machine shit in the machine shops for classes and for our yearly projects it’s pretty sick
Kinda surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but most of the points in this video fall under "design for manufacturability". If you google it you can find some more details and explanations.
was doing the same thing. First project as an undergrad I hit every single one of these stupid issues and it was coming out of tutoring money lol. I decided engineering wasn't for me.
As a mechanical engineering student, I can definitely say that I learned more useful information from a single conversation with a machinist than I did from years of higher education theory. This is legit. One addition I’d have tho is listen to your operators, this includes end users, machinists, assemblers, packagers, maintenance techs, everyone. It’s a Mech Eng job to make their life easier. If they’re complaining abt something then it’s your problem and 9 times out of 10 you can do something abt it
you need to study dfma
@@maalikserebryakov Yep, this is mandatory study in my course. It should be in every engineering degree quite frankly
This is really true in any industry - siloing is useful for many reasons, but keeping different departments a complete black box from each other actually damages potential efficiency and LEAN gains.
Not knowing what other teams need leads to duplicated efforts, redundency, overdesigning, etc.
I was working on a logistics program for our shipping team, and I was all excited about all the things we could do with it, but despite all the effort I put into it, they never used it because they couldn’t find the button to export to Google maps - so hundreds of hours of work and redundant system usage just because i put a button in a place they didn’t see it. It wasn’t until months later that we found out and got things working right.
Study hard go first. That they tell you is valuable, but if you have some kind of lack in your technical understanding. That's not gonna save you. Know your priority.
The sad truth is Mech Eng are going to be completely replaced by the technologists in 5-10 years tops. AI is replacing us and is rapidly becoming more efficient for design. They don't need to pay a team of engineers to do what an AI program can do for less money. Make friends with those "machinists" because chances are they will be engineers longer than us. Source: I am also a Mech Eng student.
5:55 caught me off guard lmao
Yeah
As an aerospace machinist, I can confirm engineers think machinists are wizards who can just do anything.
i thought it was a video about tf2
I worked at a company that would regularly have groups of engineer majors and interns come through. The biggest thing I always told them was to listen to your machinists and dont be afraid to ask them production questions. No other engineer will tell you that but a majority of those guys have been with the company for 30+ years and just because you have the degree doesn't mean you know better.
I would say that if you don't know better, you probably don't deserve the degree.
I fully agree. There is a certain level of superiority complex with engineers even interns. When I was interning my favorite people were the guys in the workshop especially the machinist. I even learned and a operated the CNC for a month. It helps massively when designing.
@@Pranav_Bhamidipati A textbook education is nothing compared to years of real-world experience
@@Pranav_Bhamidipati They are different skills that doesn't make any sense.
Its like saying a F1 driver doesn't deserve to be a driver, because he cannot change tires fast for an F1 car or fix one.
@@PandaMane Yeah, that's just an excuse for bad textbooks and ineffective classroom teaching. If we have to experience everything to understand and learn new things, then, there would be no value in passing down gathered wisdom to the next generations. They would learn through experience anyway.