@@normangiven6436 As an outgrowth of the 38 Auto cartridge, true. But it is a highly effective cartridge in its' own right. And of SAAMI or Euro spec pistol cartridges, it is one of the very best 9mm/.355 cartridges. Unfortunately, it takes a 45 ACP length magazine but would be pretty darn effective in a compact 1911.
Mr. Fairburn, every Friday for the past month, since stumbling upon your channel, I've looked forward to a new video. Keep churnin' out the wisdom and content!
I am one of those silly people with a 40s&w "1911"... a Canadian Para Ordnance P16-40... it functions wonderfully... the 45acp and timeless and the one 9mm is problematic for now.. but that is a magazine issue, not the pistol... and 22 conversions range from minute if 2 liter bottle at 15 yards, Ceiner, to minute of a nickel at 50 yards.. Marvel conversion... the 1911 is a thing of beauty and function
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb The 1911 is a good frame for a 40 S&W. I have an RIA FS in 40, very nice shooting and accurate pistol, and reliable with any ammo I feed it.
Great Video! I only see a couple that you didn't cover and these are more toward the extremes, the Coonan .357 Magnum which can also fire .38 Special +P and the LAR Grizzly that offered chamberings in .45 Win Mag, .357 Mag, and .50 AE. A friend of mine had one in .50 AE but after 3 rounds, I lost feeling in about half of my right hand. I don't see the point. I have a Coonan and I love it to death, but it's a finicky beast that requires you to balance the load with one of 4 recoil springs. Change the load without changing the spring and reliability goes right out the window. You mentioned the USAF OSI cut down .45's. During the early 1980's I served as a USAF CATM, (Combat Arms Training and Maintenance) instructor and I was stationed at Lowery AFB here in Aurora CO where we had a large OSI unit. The OSI, (Office of Special Investigations), had those issued while I was there. They were the most horrible bastardized examples of 1911's I'd ever beheld. John Moses Browning was rolling in his grave with those. They took them down actually a little shorter than the commander models. Their ultimate goal was to produce a 1911 that was about the same size as a Detonics Combat Master and to do that they cut over an inch from both the barrel and the slide. But here is the HORRIBLE part. Rather than cut off the muzzle, re-crown the end and machine a new bushing to maintain a good lockup, they cut about 1.25" out of the middle of the barrel and then welded the muzzle back on. I swear to God, you could see the seam and most of them did not even line up the rifling when they welded them back together. They then did the same thing to the receiver in the grip section and they had to cut down the grip safety, hammer strut and mainspring housing. I've shot several of these guns and most were horribly inaccurate. One in particular you had to aim over TEN FEET low and left to hit center of mass at 15 yards. My hand to God, they were the worst guns I've ever fired and I've fired some real stinkers in my day. I started calling them "Belly Guns" because the only way they'd be effective is if you pressed the muzzle into the bad guy's belly, yanked the trigger a couple of times and run like hell! When they first showed up most of us were really excited about them. After all, the Air Force had dropped the 1911 early on and we were all carrying S&W Model 15's with ammo that was nearly a .357 magnum load. Everything that had threads had to constantly be tightened to keep them from falling off when firing. So to have a semi-auto was great. But then we headed to the range. It took 2 to 3 tries for most OSI agents to pass the qualification course, most of which was fired from 25 yards at that time. I wish I'd have thought to take some photo's of those, but to be honest, it was something I've tried to forget. Oh and as I recall, there was a Singer among them. So sad...
I should have mentioned in the video that I was only looking at cartridges for the standard 1911, not the oversize ones like the Coonan and Grizzly. I just received a Gun Digest - Handguns book from 1983 that has an article on the OSI 1911s. One other guy said they weren't very accurate, but your description makes them sound like abortions. Any idea who/where I could get more info on the OSI pistols?
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I hadn't really looked into them until now. I only found one photo, poor quality and B&W, of them. Most comments I've read from people who carried them seemed to think they were okay, but I personally chalk that up to those who got some of the better pistols. Not all of them were junk, some were fairly accurate and we did have a few agents who managed to maintain expert quals with them. I guess being the Maintainer, I have higher standards than most agents who were carrying them. I've seen a lot of weapons customized over the years and there are good quality gunsmiths out there who will do amazing things with firearms. I'd seriously doubt if any of them worked in the USAF Gunsmith shop at Lackland AFB TX, also when a small shop like that is suddenly tasked with the job of converting a thousand pistols that were already retired once, you can't expect the quality to be that great. On another note, they didn't remain in service very long, only about 10 years.
Very informative. I thought I knew the history and technical details of all the cartridges every used in the 1911 but found out there were some I didn't know about.
The 1911 is My All Time Favorite Handgun. I have 2 Kimber 1911 45's. If I ever were to buy a 38 Super or 10mm, I would buy it in a 1911 Frame because they originally came in the 1911 Frame, or I guess they did, but if I were to buy a 9mm, it would be a Browning High Power or Beretta 92, or a P85 and P89. I also like a Walther PPK.
I miss my Delta Elite that I sold, but it was one of the originals with the "weak" frame. I have a Springfield TRP Operator and a Fusion Firearms Combat Commander (1911's) in 10mm that occupy that space and are great firearms, but will never completely fill that void. It was the first pistol that I bought for myself, and the 1911 has always been my favorite ever since.
The original Delta Elite did not necessarily have a "weak" frame, the stresses of the full-charge 10mm load just found a flexing stress point where cracks could form. Many, if not most semi-auto pistols have developed frame cracks over the years. Colt merely opened up a section of the frame where the flexing was forming cracks and prevented the cracks from forming.
The 9x19mm Winchester has so impressed me that it has become my choice in a full-size 1911 with Wilson 10-round magazines for EDC. This round is the near-equivalent of my 8-round revolver “ 9mm” - the .357 Magnum (9x33mmR). Note that I didn’t state “9mm revolver” BECAUSE I don’t own OR use a revolver CHAMBERED for 9x19mm Parabellum.
The military pistols and many early commercial guns wouldn't feed hollow points. When the barrel is properly throated, they will feed almost anything. Some will even feed empty casings.
Thank you for all of this good information on this video, Dick! You have to be fully caffeinated while listening! If you blink, you can miss something important. 👍
Great presentation on the 1911. But if I may suggest that the HOLY GRAIL of the rarest of the rare 1911s are the very few made by the North American Arms Company in Quebec Canada. They only made 100 of these 1911s.
Ian on Forgotten Firearms has an excellent video on the North American Arms 1911 pistols. They ARE the rarest variation, but none were ever shipped to the US. They never advanced beyond the toolroom prototype stage.
Excellent video as always! I am 100% a 1911 fan and a 45ACP fan. I use 9mm on occasion, but my main go to 97% of the time is 1911 Series 80 or 70. I am soon to be taking ownership of a Nighthawk Custom GRP Recon in 45 I had built for me. I cannot wait!!! Thank you for you excellent videos and no bullshit honesty and experience.
I had a Nighthawk GRP in 10mm while waiting for my custom Heinie/Colt to be built. Excellent pistols. Their little 9mm Kestrel/Lady Hawk is VERY tempting ... designed by Richard Heine, as he will discuss in my upcoming interview video.
I have 4. My first was a Ruger Military Model I bought in the 1990's. Recently I have bought 3 Tisas 1911's, one Service Special model, two of the W W II marked one that people who reviewed it said was the closest to the 1911A1 in current production. Ruger and two of the Tisas are in .45 ACP the last Tisas is in 9mm.
Another excellent presentation by "The Cartridge King". I swear every time you release a new video I watch it three times over ASAP! I have been loving this 1911 video series, by far my favorite firearm-related video series on UA-cam right now. I agree with you that the 1911 is the best fighting pistol and am often called a Fudd for my thoughts. Funny enough I am 24 and trust no handgun more than the ol' 1911 to protect me and my family. So I may be young but I guess I'm still just a fudd according to the gun shop commandos. I really enjoyed how you shared the possibility of getting so much versatility out of a 1911. I haven't experimented with any 1911s outside of 45 yet but have got a really good carry system centered around the 45. Between 45, 45 +p, and 45 super I feel I can handle any task I would need a handgun for. I primarily carry standard pressure or +p for daily carry in a lightweight commander or my 5-inch govt. For woods use I switch out to +p 250 RNFP over Power Pistol. The 45 super fills in the gap of when I need more power, primarily for hunting or woods use. I did some more extensive modifications to my 5-inch 1911 to accommodate the 45 super. This includes using a non-radiused firing pin stop, an extra power firing pin spring, currently a 23# mainspring, and a heavy recoil spring (24 or 28 lb depending on my need). I leave a 22 lb spring in my 5 inch 1911 which can run all loads including 45 supers if needed (I don't make a habit of this). These modifications slow the action down to reduce wear on the pistol, and increase reliability (so the slide does not outrun the magazine causing failure to feed). I have found hot 45 super loads recoil more heavily than hot 10mm loads, but have hand loaded enough ammo to become proficient. My woods load is a 250 grain RNFP at around 1100 fps. I feel perfectly well-armed against large animals with this load. Having the 45, 45 +P, and 45 Super in one handgun gives me a tremendous amount of versatility and capability out of one handgun that only requires a recoil spring change as needed. I have thought of trying the 460 Rowland but have not as of yet, 45 super mostly scratches my itch for "more power". So I totally agree with your ability to get a huge amount of versatility out of the best fighting pistol ever designed! A caliber I don't recall you mentioning is the 40 Super. It is a necked-down 45 Winchester Magnum (another 1911 wildcat) necked down to .40 caliber. It is hotter than 10mm and can comfortably push a 220-grain flat nose hard cast at 1350-1400 FPS. To my knowledge, it only requires a barrel change to a 45 ACP 1911 (Don't quote me). A gentleman on UA-cam tested 40 super hard casts and they penetrated 57 inches in gelatin and left a very nasty wound channel, I'll leave the link below. ua-cam.com/video/boEJG-HpmlY/v-deo.html&ab_channel=TheTurkey%27sOpinion Sorry for the long post, but I love your content and I thought I would share some of my experiences that mirror your own as well share a lesser known wildcat. Looking forward to next week's video, great job as always "The Cartridge King"!!!
Not sure I can live up to any title which includes "King, " but thanks for the kind words. I think I will be doing a video on "horsepower," with so many folks jumping on the "more is better" bandwagon. For shooting people, a bullet which does maximum damage with reasonable penetration is the best bet and bullet technology has advanced to the point where we can get that from almost any "normal" pistol caliber in conventional or +P loading. For big critters you need maximum penetration and using a Lehigh all-copper or wide-flat-nose cast/treated lead bullet will give maximum possible damage along a deep, straight wound path. Again, normal or +P loads will give that penetration. The guru at now defunct Beartooth Bullets had done a lot of research with hard lead bullets with very wide, flat noses (as close to a wadcutter as you can get and still function reliably). He said 1000-1300 feet per second gave maximum penetration. Above that velocity the wound path would widen, but penetration would start to drop - but non-deforming lead or copper bullets generally have a LOT of penetration to spare, so doing more damage is good to a point. I doubt any critter would know whether the deep wound path was made by a bullet at 1100 fps or 1800 fps. So, why beat up your pistol and yourself any more than you need to. .45 Super ... OK, I guess, but a .45 +P can launch a deep penetrating bullet at 1000 fps + and the 10mm can launch a 200 -220 grain deep penetrator to 1200. Like I subtitled my #1 Bear Defense video - Precision not Power.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I agree with your synopsis of precision over power. I originally wanted to chase the power of the .460 Rowland but never mostly felt the need for such. I shoot 45 super just enough to maintain proficiency, but limit my round count because of the extra battering it gives the pistol. I also don't push the loads to unsafe levels. My hand loads out of a 45+p with hard casts have been pushing 925-950 fps, while my supers push that about another 150-175 up to around 1100. I should mention I'm relatively new to reloading so I have not felt the need to push the envelope of power thresholds per se, and have tried to stick to relatively safe numbers. Safety first for me. I have seen penetration tests of 45 + P and super hard casts but not side by side on the same medium. I have seen a 255-grain 45 super test done against a 44 magnum 255-grain Keith bullet (5-inch 1911 vs 4-inch 44) and was surprised to see the super penetrated a bit more than the 44 (37 vs 44 inches), so I've been happy with my Super hard casts for hunting and big game purposes, which are my only common use for the super but I still often carry +p hard casts. All of my loads seem to be in the 1000-1300 fps range you mentioned as I don't push the super to uncomfortable and nuclear level. Thanks for your thoughts, I have often thought that chasing the single most powerful load was often over-emphasized. If I get the opportunity to test some 45 Super and 45 ACP +p loads side by side this summer I'll be sure to share my findings.
The legend states that a man named Fairburn rescued the Scottish King when he was unhorsed in battle, a thousand years ago or so. For that act of bravery and strength, the King decreed that Fairburn would henceforth be known as Armstrong and gave him lands on the Scottish border. Clan Armstong ... "Invictis Maneo" ... "I remain unvanquished."
The glock could absolutely handle as many different calibers/chamberings as the 1911 can. The 1911 has been around a lot longer, and was the only realistic platform for making such variety of chamberings before the glock came along, therefore the 1911 has more variety by default. Love 1911's and Glocks. 2 of the most versatile, proven, reliable handguns to ever be invented.
I finally found a You tube channel I truly love! I've been saying many of these same things and toying with many of these same calibers for years! And am also a proponent of the commanded size 1911 although in the steel frames when chambering the hotrod calibers. A few others I can think of that while not necessarily chambered by any manufacturer have also been used in the 1911 platform by not only myself but others as well....38-45 hardhead, while similar to the 38-45 clerke(which I also have a barrel for) used either .451 detonics cases or cut down .45 win mag cases to withstand the higher pressure. I also have a 7.62x25 tokarev barrel that's been fitted to a .38 super and although it's been pushed to the back of the bench for quite some time (working out magazine/oal issues) I have either barrels or guns chambered in .40 super, 9x21, .356 tsw, 10mm centaur (developed by Dean Grennel also using .451 detonics cases), .38 Casull as well as every cartridge on your list. And I'll agree 100% that the 1911 is not only the greatest fighting pistol but also the most versatile and customizable semi auto platform ever designed. Thanks for some great videos and information!
Dick, it was Evan Whildin, who was vice president of Action Arms in 1986, that developed the .41 Action Express. If I remember correctly, UZI and Speer made 210 FMJ's and 170 or 180 grain JHP's for that caliber. I had a Tanfoglio TZ-75 chambered in it. It was a bit finicky about loading, but when it worked it had quite a bit of bark. It was a great idea, it's a shame it didn't work 100% of the time. And when the .40 S&W came out, it got overwhelmed. Pity, because that round notably outperformed the .40 S&W. Also, those pistols often came with a 9mm conversion kit (slide, barrel, recoil spring and mag) and you could switch them out. Interesting design. BTW, I have a Sig 1911 Nightmare Fastback Carry chambered in .357 Sig and it runs great, a lot of power in a smaller 1911 package.
Thanks for the historical details! The fast 9mm cartridges should parallel the great stopping record of the 125gr .357 Magnum revolvers. Many of my shooting colleagues, like me, are switching to a 9mm or .357 Sig/.38 Super/Win 9x23 for their carry pistols. I think the recoil of a .45 is manageable for even small-statured shooters ... when they are young and fit. But arthritis is putting the .45s in the vault for many of us older shooters. The hot 9mms have a bit snappier recoil, but less FtLbs overall.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I get it, and one cannot ignore the affordability, carry-ability or capacity that the 9mm gives. I'm a large fellow, so a full metal P229 or P226 in .357 Sig with an extra mag isn't a problem for me, but I get when some smaller frame folks are attracted to a polystriker 9mm. I have many nines, but when I carry them I stoke them with pretty hot, lightweight rounds... I'm not a Kool-Aide guzzling believer in the FBI Ballistic Protocols, as I don't think they reflect reality and are more than partially politically motivated (I won't rant on that here). But parochial adherence to absolute need for certain penetration depths aside (in humans, that is), I favor 115 or 124 gr +P factory rounds for 9mm carry. However, I still believe that on balance it'll probably take more than a few shots from a nine to get the job done anyway, hence the capacity issue...they carry more rounds, but that's because I'll likely *need* more rounds. I appreciated your detailed look into the history of uber-hot of 9mm rounds. On a side note, have you ever researched Federal's 115 gr 9mm +P+ 9BPLE round they made for the Illinois State Police? Pretty interesting story of a major state agency jumping off into super hot 9mm waters.....
@@texas-raider Actually ISP never used the Federal +P+ load you mentioned. The +P+ round they used was loaded by Winchester, using a 115 gr JHP - essentially the same bullet as their Silvertip load at the time without the "silver" nickel plating. The Federal +P+ 115 load clocked about 1240 fps from my 4 inch P7M8 while the Winchester load was going about 1300 ... a very hot 9mm load.
Dick, you just gave a very interesting video on the 1911 cartridge,1911 platform.i have always asked the question to alot of people about why the 40s&w is not Chamberd in a 1911 but only para ordinance many years ago for a little while. You said something about the geometry.well in this modern age that we live in that don't make sense to me.I am 70years old been shooting and reloading since 1975 . again you explained the 1911 very well thank you.
I don't understand why the .40 doesn't work well in a standard 1911, I just know I have seen several that were noticeably unreliable. In the shorter 9mm-length Springfield EMP platform, the .40 seems to run splendidly.
Your voice is easy to listen to, and you have interesting topics. You kinda sound like the voice of resistance you would hear on the radio in some post-apocalyptic world. 😊
I may have missed it, also not certain of the metric conversion, but I don’t think you mentioned the 30 Luger? I actually have one (1971 production). It’s a LW Commander, built for the Italian market. Very low production and quite rare here in the US. As always, great job!
Most 10mm pistols will function with .40 S&W ammo. In my limited experience, the .40 works better in a 10mm 1911 than it does in a dedicated .40 barrel.
9mm Fan-boy here but die-hard 1911A1 fan!!! You spoke of your 1st 1911 being the Colt 70-Series-that was MY first also, and I was hooked! That was back in the mid-'80's(?). I remember watching "Last Man Standing" and thinking are those Hi-Powers??? Because of the high capacity, but the time frame didn't match up as Prohibition ended BEFORE the Hi Power was introduced, then I paused the dvd and was like, wait a minute, those are 1911's!!! Unless I missed the part where Smith goes forward in time and picks up a couple Paras or Caspians, then returns, WTF, how's he blasting off 20-30 rds at a time WITHOUT a reload. Bubble burst. Great video, sir!!!
I barely remember that movie, will have to look it up ... most movies are TOTALLY unrealistic. Even with a 10+1 single stack 1911 in 9mm or .38 Super, they can easily turn into 20-30 shooter with the miracle of movie magic.
.22, 9mm, 9x21, 9x23mm, .38 super, 40 Short and weak, 10mm, .45 ACP, 50 GAP, 460 Rowland. 38/45-38 Casull .38 midrange wadcutter. (only in a straight blowback Gold cup and a few custom guns)
The .455 Webley auto was the second cartridge chambered for the 1911. Colt made it for the British in WWI. Ballistics were a bit less than .45 ACP and it required a different magazine.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb The 45 SUPER is a Para Ordnance P14 I converted over two decades ago by installing a heavier ricoil spring, longer ejector, lighter titanium firing pin, and a stronger extractor. The 40 SUPER I bought about two decades ago is an STI 40 SUPER model of the Trojan with a 5½" barrel and a single port comp single stack 1911 I bought new at the time for about $800. At the time they also were selling a 6" long slide version as well, but at the time I opted for the 5½" version for the comp port. The drawback to the 40 SUPER is that it doesn't work well with the grip angle of 1911 because the upper rounds in the magazine wants to pivot on the lower round bottle neck shoulder into a downward orientation, jamming in the magazine if you load more than four or so rounds in the magazine. However, the velocities are quite incredible with 135gr bullets at 1800 ft/s. I've chronographed 2000 ft/s with 100gr solid copper bullets in hand loads, but that load isn't something I'd shoot much of, it's a very hot load.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb No doubt. I do carry it my self on occasions because it's essentially a Magnum and it'll have little problem penetrating cover like vehicles and low level body armor, not to mention a shit load of energy and velocity. So I don't feel all that under gunned having no more rounds than a revolver since my doctrine is to shoot my why away from a gun fight; not to get dogged down in a drawn out gun battle. Besides, perps typically flee the second they're receiving returned fire anyway. But that's just me.
460 Rowland with a comp from Rowland is not as bad as the 10mm without a comp. Recoil is lower as is the muzzle flip. But the 460 is real good for hunting application. Great overview.
Love my Tisas Yukon Carry Commander 10mm, but my 5” Government SA Ronin is the absolute best value I’ve seen, forged frame & slide, great looks and dead on, even with some mim parts here and there!
@@SonnyCrocket-p6hwhat MIM parts would that be? Tisas don’t use the mim parts that you might find in your Kimber, your Ruger, in your Charles Daily, your Rock Island and your US made Sig Sauer. They aren’t going to make special crappy parts just to put in pistols they import to the US while they’re making indestructible parts they install in full automatic pistols they sell across the Middle East! If they did install mim parts, then why would they bother to make their 1911’s with forged frames instead of soft machined metal stock? Made cheap and cheap made are two different types of finished products!
@@SonnyCrocket-p6h Tisas released a statement last year. I can't remember when it started but going forward, the only MIM part in their guns will be the recoil plug. Sounds impressive to me for such affordable 1911s!
2:00 actually 45 super uses the exact same chamber as regular 45 acp. it just needs a stronger spring. but the chamber dimensions are exactly the same.
I used to cover a sales territory in the late 80's from Eastern Iowa over to the outskirts of Chicago, down to Champagne, and around to Quincy and all points in between, including Springfield and Peoria. My main distributor in Peoria was Geo Pasqual. Not sure they're still in business. So of course, I'm going to ask if the 1911 will play in Peoria? lol
I'm familiar with G. Pasqual & Company, drive by their buildings regularly, but I've never really looked to see if they are still open ... next time I'll look. The 1911 plays VERY well in Peoria. Many members of Peoria PD excercise their option to carry a personal 911.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Not surprised! Wish ya'll didn't have to deal with the commies in Chicago... I know that all of Illinois outside of that is solid Patriot country.
WHAT mod did they make on the 10mm frames? I did a couple of set screws thru the sides of the frame and into blind holes in the mainspring housing. If you want, you can locate these holes where the stock panels wont let the screws back-out by themselves.
Colt extended the cut for the slide stop up through the top rail on the left side of the frame, eliminating the area prone to cracking. I will show detailed photos on my next video covering 1911 modifications.
Thank you love the content lately between fighting rifles now decent pistols with metal frame not plastic glock n co i prefer. 1911 for natural point n shoot 😢or speed of draw n first shot placement n semi auto for speed of reloads but your seties is a real eye opener thank you so very much for sharing your info
Another three cartridges that i was able to find these are non colt pistols, .380 ACP, .357 Magnum and 7.62x25mm Browning makes 1911s in .380 ACP and so does Rock Island Armory, Coonan Arms made a 1911 in .357 Magnum, it was not very popular and the company went out of business in 2019. Norninco made conversion kits for 1911 in 7.62×25mm Tokarev and you can still buy the parts needed to do it yourself.
I didn't list the .380 because they are in smaller than normal sized 1911 clones. I covered the smaller 1911 pistols in the commercial variations video. The Coonan was a dedicated frame size for the .357 Mag revolver cartridge. I was not aware of the 7.62x25 Tokarev variations, thanks.
What a mystery, if the Springfield emp can get it right they must know something the others don't. Been a 40 fan boy from the beginning because the 40 has the best of both worlds of the 9 and 45.
I purchased a 22TCM slide for my RIA 9mm/22tcm, then I had to buy the barrel bushing and the metal rod with the spring and found the whole situation too time consuming. So, why not purchase a whole pistol, so someone's R&D department makes sure that my pistol is safe. I did want an increased capacity 1911 for carry, so I got the RIA BBR with a 10 rnd mag, the maximum allowed in the people's republic of NY. Then I bought a p937, p220, p225, p226 and an sp2022 sigs with a 357 sig barrel for the only polymer sig I own. Now S&W 4566, 4006, 3914, cs45 and cs9 covered anything I wanted to carry.
With equivalent hard, penetrating bullets, I think either would work. But, I have both and choose the 10mm ... smaller diameter equals higher sectional density for bullets of the same weight, so greater penetration. 10mm generates more energy, but I feel that has little to do with terminal performance. Non-deforming bullet construction and a flat point yields deep straight-line penetration. You are free to disagree.
I like the 10mm with 220 grain hard cast bullets going 1200 fps. for bear protection. I am no expert but I do know that I can place my shots with my Glock 20 and I know that hard cast bullets pushed that fast will penetrate really well and defeat the bone. A 1911 in 10mm would probably be even more controllable. But if I didn't own a 10mm and had a 1911 that can handle 45 Super, that would be my choice also with hard cast bullets - 250 rain rnfp. Those have fed well for me in my 1911's - but I never loaded them into 45 Supers...
I use a service of the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) which is only available to active or retired LEO FOP members - mostly because it has no limits on the dollar amounts for legal representation, settlements/awards, etc. For me it is the best bang for the buck. My wife uses USCCA. I work for Delta Defense - parent company of USCCA - as a writer for Concealed Carry magazine, so I don't endorse any insurance or legal representation company, I just tell you what we use.
Hi! It's me again. From the little I've seen, the 1911 models I've seen chambered in .460 Rowland, the models available chambered in this cartridge has had a tendency to jam. It has to do something with physics, but the 10 mm Auto seems to do well, so I have no idea why this would be. Maybe manufactureing of the models have something to do with it.
I have zero experience with the Rowland, but the videos I have watched of people shooting them do seem to show some malfunctions, even with Glocks and FN conversions.
Usually malfunctions when converting to 460 Rowland is in the magazine. The comp can only do so much to slow the slide down, but it's generally cycling faster than a stock magazine spring can keep up with reliably.
What about the 45 Winchester Magnum. I thought that was for the 1911 pistol? I don't think they ever got very popular. I remember reading about it when I was young, and thought I thought wanted one. I ended up buying a Smith & Wesson 686 357 Magnum instead of trying to find one, then having to make my own ammo. I have never seen a box of 45 Winchester Magnum on a shelf anywhere.
The 45 Win Mag and 9mm Win Mag were designed for the Wildey pistol, which never became a big hit. Both rounds are too long to function in a 1911 action.
Because of the SEMI-RIM of the ,38 Super +P, it does not cycle the 9x23 Winchester RELIABLY. I acquired a 1911 CHAMBERED FOR the 9x19mm Parabellum and had it re-barrelled FOR 9x23. The 9x19 and the 9x23 have almost the same rebated rim dimension so my experience regarding functionality has been good.
Colt has never chambered the GAP and I don't recall anyone else chambering it either. If you know of one chambered for the GAP, let me know. The GAP was created for 9mm sized pistols which can't handle the .45 ACP, no reason for it in a 1911.
I will have to dig out my copy of Hatcher's Notebook, but I believe the nominal velocity for the .45 ACP Ball cartridge is either 830 or 835 feet per second. The old military specs quote the velocity several feet from the muzzle, so muzzle velocities will be a bit higher.
I absolutely enjoyed this video, I learned a good deal from it, and I sincerely thank you. I never owned or even fired a .45 GAP and, in fact, I found it to be semi-insulting (both the Clinton politics and the idea a “substitute” for Browning’s genius), BUT I wonder if a standard 1911A1 could be modified to fire it (understanding, of course, that there would be no reason whatever to pursue this concept)?
I've never heard of a .45 GAP being chambered in a 1911 ... The idea of the GAP was to fire a .45 bullet from a 9mm-length pistol action. A few large police agencies adopted Glocks in .45 GAP, but I think most of them have moved on to another caliber due to ammo costs.
Dick You really think the 1911 is the ultimate fighting pistol? As auto loaders go I personally don’t care for them much. My younger brothers like them but they really aren’t my thing personally. I like the Sigma series of S&W, I still have my SW40VE and totes it until I discovered subcompacts. I like revolvers too but not Taurus. I can’t fault 1922’s for anything they just aren’t my preference. It’s not capacity or too big or anything but I really like many other models better is all. I like the Beretta 92, awesome pistols there, and I threatened to carry my SAA in 357 before I traded it off.
As I get older, and after carpal tunnel problems, I limit the time I spent with a .45 (though I still carry it when I pack a bigger-than pocket size pistol). The .38 Super/Win 9x23 are really fascinating and I will be doing a video specifically on that hot road soon. The 9mm is the up and comer in the 1911 ... the popular 9x19 cartridge paired with the 1911 trigger ... pretty nice package.
You skipped over the Coonan chambered in .357magnum. A 1911 firing a rimfire magnum cartridge, I'm sure this was an accidental oversight. Nobody's perfect.
I'm not perfect. I discussed the Coonan in the previous video, I stuck to the standard-sized 1911s for this cartridge list, I should have mentioned that.
in my novice opinion (4 months pistol use 9mm [Walther not Glock]) 1911 pistols are over-rated for two practical reasons, cost and maintenance needs; optics and the "cool" factor mean absolutely nothing.
I feel they are still the ultimate fighting pistol but require a more refined build and more complicated maintenance. For most users, the simplicity and price of a polymer/striker pistol are the better choice.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb That’s the key word FOR 1911 pistols: “refinement.” The 1911 has spawned a strong aftermarket industry since the early 1960s with several custom pistolsmiths offering a bewildering roster of options to enhance both the functionality & aesthetics of this mature design. This can be done on an all metal gun whereas many more of the modern designs tend to gravitate towards a less-custom-able platform such as with moulded polymer frames.
You have created one of the best GunTube channels sir. Great stuff, I appreciate ya
Thank you!
I agree with you on the 1911. It's my favorite pistol. I would own others but the 1911 will be my daily carry pistol.
Don't forget, 1911s are sexy to boot.
Not quite like a red-headed woman, but close.
Agreed
Thank you. Enjoying this series immensely.
Please keep this series going, it's very interesting and informative.
The 38 Super +P is a great and underappreciated cartridge. Like have a standard pressure 9mm +P+, plus a little extra umph.
38 Super was created for the Mexican market since they not allowed "military cartridges".
@@normangiven6436 As an outgrowth of the 38 Auto cartridge, true. But it is a highly effective cartridge in its' own right. And of SAAMI or Euro spec pistol cartridges, it is one of the very best 9mm/.355 cartridges. Unfortunately, it takes a 45 ACP length magazine but would be pretty darn effective in a compact 1911.
Mr. Fairburn, every Friday for the past month, since stumbling upon your channel, I've looked forward to a new video. Keep churnin' out the wisdom and content!
Thanks, will do!
I am one of those silly people with a 40s&w "1911"... a Canadian Para Ordnance P16-40... it functions wonderfully... the 45acp and timeless and the one 9mm is problematic for now.. but that is a magazine issue, not the pistol... and 22 conversions range from minute if 2 liter bottle at 15 yards, Ceiner, to minute of a nickel at 50 yards.. Marvel conversion... the 1911 is a thing of beauty and function
Glad your .40 works well.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb The 1911 is a good frame for a 40 S&W. I have an RIA FS in 40, very nice shooting and accurate pistol, and reliable with any ammo I feed it.
Thank you! Great series and another great episode!
Great Video! I only see a couple that you didn't cover and these are more toward the extremes, the Coonan .357 Magnum which can also fire .38 Special +P and the LAR Grizzly that offered chamberings in .45 Win Mag, .357 Mag, and .50 AE. A friend of mine had one in .50 AE but after 3 rounds, I lost feeling in about half of my right hand. I don't see the point. I have a Coonan and I love it to death, but it's a finicky beast that requires you to balance the load with one of 4 recoil springs. Change the load without changing the spring and reliability goes right out the window.
You mentioned the USAF OSI cut down .45's. During the early 1980's I served as a USAF CATM, (Combat Arms Training and Maintenance) instructor and I was stationed at Lowery AFB here in Aurora CO where we had a large OSI unit. The OSI, (Office of Special Investigations), had those issued while I was there.
They were the most horrible bastardized examples of 1911's I'd ever beheld. John Moses Browning was rolling in his grave with those. They took them down actually a little shorter than the commander models. Their ultimate goal was to produce a 1911 that was about the same size as a Detonics Combat Master and to do that they cut over an inch from both the barrel and the slide. But here is the HORRIBLE part. Rather than cut off the muzzle, re-crown the end and machine a new bushing to maintain a good lockup, they cut about 1.25" out of the middle of the barrel and then welded the muzzle back on. I swear to God, you could see the seam and most of them did not even line up the rifling when they welded them back together. They then did the same thing to the receiver in the grip section and they had to cut down the grip safety, hammer strut and mainspring housing.
I've shot several of these guns and most were horribly inaccurate. One in particular you had to aim over TEN FEET low and left to hit center of mass at 15 yards. My hand to God, they were the worst guns I've ever fired and I've fired some real stinkers in my day. I started calling them "Belly Guns" because the only way they'd be effective is if you pressed the muzzle into the bad guy's belly, yanked the trigger a couple of times and run like hell!
When they first showed up most of us were really excited about them. After all, the Air Force had dropped the 1911 early on and we were all carrying S&W Model 15's with ammo that was nearly a .357 magnum load. Everything that had threads had to constantly be tightened to keep them from falling off when firing. So to have a semi-auto was great. But then we headed to the range. It took 2 to 3 tries for most OSI agents to pass the qualification course, most of which was fired from 25 yards at that time.
I wish I'd have thought to take some photo's of those, but to be honest, it was something I've tried to forget. Oh and as I recall, there was a Singer among them. So sad...
I should have mentioned in the video that I was only looking at cartridges for the standard 1911, not the oversize ones like the Coonan and Grizzly. I just received a Gun Digest - Handguns book from 1983 that has an article on the OSI 1911s. One other guy said they weren't very accurate, but your description makes them sound like abortions. Any idea who/where I could get more info on the OSI pistols?
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I hadn't really looked into them until now. I only found one photo, poor quality and B&W, of them. Most comments I've read from people who carried them seemed to think they were okay, but I personally chalk that up to those who got some of the better pistols. Not all of them were junk, some were fairly accurate and we did have a few agents who managed to maintain expert quals with them. I guess being the Maintainer, I have higher standards than most agents who were carrying them. I've seen a lot of weapons customized over the years and there are good quality gunsmiths out there who will do amazing things with firearms. I'd seriously doubt if any of them worked in the USAF Gunsmith shop at Lackland AFB TX, also when a small shop like that is suddenly tasked with the job of converting a thousand pistols that were already retired once, you can't expect the quality to be that great. On another note, they didn't remain in service very long, only about 10 years.
@@arapahoetactical7749 Still a very interesting chapter of the 1911 story.
The Grizzly pistols are 1911s also and there's another one that shoots 30cal carbine video of it on Demaliition Ranch UA-cam channel
I believe the 1st 45 acp cartridge design for the 1911 was a 200 grain bullet but the army insisted on a 230 grain.
Very informative. I thought I knew the history and technical details of all the cartridges every used in the 1911 but found out there were some I didn't know about.
The 1911 is My All Time Favorite Handgun. I have 2 Kimber 1911 45's. If I ever were to buy a 38 Super or 10mm, I would buy it in a 1911 Frame because they originally came in the 1911 Frame, or I guess they did, but if I were to buy a 9mm, it would be a Browning High Power or Beretta 92, or a P85 and P89. I also like a Walther PPK.
I miss my Delta Elite that I sold, but it was one of the originals with the "weak" frame. I have a Springfield TRP Operator and a Fusion Firearms Combat Commander (1911's) in 10mm that occupy that space and are great firearms, but will never completely fill that void. It was the first pistol that I bought for myself, and the 1911 has always been my favorite ever since.
The original Delta Elite did not necessarily have a "weak" frame, the stresses of the full-charge 10mm load just found a flexing stress point where cracks could form. Many, if not most semi-auto pistols have developed frame cracks over the years. Colt merely opened up a section of the frame where the flexing was forming cracks and prevented the cracks from forming.
The 9x19mm Winchester has so impressed me that it has become my choice in a full-size 1911 with Wilson 10-round magazines for EDC.
This round is the near-equivalent of my 8-round revolver “ 9mm” - the .357 Magnum (9x33mmR). Note that I didn’t state “9mm revolver” BECAUSE I don’t own OR use a revolver CHAMBERED for 9x19mm Parabellum.
When I bought my first Colt 1911 in .45 caliber, I found that hollow points always caused jams. Now, I use only full metal-jacketed rounds.
The military pistols and many early commercial guns wouldn't feed hollow points. When the barrel is properly throated, they will feed almost anything. Some will even feed empty casings.
Thank you for all of this good information on this video, Dick! You have to be fully caffeinated while listening! If you blink, you can miss something important. 👍
Great presentation on the 1911. But if I may suggest that the HOLY GRAIL of the rarest of the rare 1911s are the very few made by the North American Arms Company in Quebec Canada. They only made 100 of these 1911s.
Ian on Forgotten Firearms has an excellent video on the North American Arms 1911 pistols. They ARE the rarest variation, but none were ever shipped to the US. They never advanced beyond the toolroom prototype stage.
Excellent video as always! I am 100% a 1911 fan and a 45ACP fan. I use 9mm on occasion, but my main go to 97% of the time is 1911 Series 80 or 70. I am soon to be taking ownership of a Nighthawk Custom GRP Recon in 45 I had built for me. I cannot wait!!! Thank you for you excellent videos and no bullshit honesty and experience.
I had a Nighthawk GRP in 10mm while waiting for my custom Heinie/Colt to be built. Excellent pistols. Their little 9mm Kestrel/Lady Hawk is VERY tempting ... designed by Richard Heine, as he will discuss in my upcoming interview video.
Thanks for all the hard work in researching these 1911 topics. Great video series!
I have 4. My first was a Ruger Military Model I bought in the 1990's. Recently I have bought 3 Tisas 1911's, one Service Special model, two of the W W II marked one that people who reviewed it said was the closest to the 1911A1 in current production. Ruger and two of the Tisas are in .45 ACP the last Tisas is in 9mm.
Another excellent presentation by "The Cartridge King". I swear every time you release a new video I watch it three times over ASAP! I have been loving this 1911 video series, by far my favorite firearm-related video series on UA-cam right now. I agree with you that the 1911 is the best fighting pistol and am often called a Fudd for my thoughts. Funny enough I am 24 and trust no handgun more than the ol' 1911 to protect me and my family. So I may be young but I guess I'm still just a fudd according to the gun shop commandos. I really enjoyed how you shared the possibility of getting so much versatility out of a 1911. I haven't experimented with any 1911s outside of 45 yet but have got a really good carry system centered around the 45. Between 45, 45 +p, and 45 super I feel I can handle any task I would need a handgun for. I primarily carry standard pressure or +p for daily carry in a lightweight commander or my 5-inch govt. For woods use I switch out to +p 250 RNFP over Power Pistol. The 45 super fills in the gap of when I need more power, primarily for hunting or woods use. I did some more extensive modifications to my 5-inch 1911 to accommodate the 45 super. This includes using a non-radiused firing pin stop, an extra power firing pin spring, currently a 23# mainspring, and a heavy recoil spring (24 or 28 lb depending on my need). I leave a 22 lb spring in my 5 inch 1911 which can run all loads including 45 supers if needed (I don't make a habit of this). These modifications slow the action down to reduce wear on the pistol, and increase reliability (so the slide does not outrun the magazine causing failure to feed). I have found hot 45 super loads recoil more heavily than hot 10mm loads, but have hand loaded enough ammo to become proficient. My woods load is a 250 grain RNFP at around 1100 fps. I feel perfectly well-armed against large animals with this load. Having the 45, 45 +P, and 45 Super in one handgun gives me a tremendous amount of versatility and capability out of one handgun that only requires a recoil spring change as needed. I have thought of trying the 460 Rowland but have not as of yet, 45 super mostly scratches my itch for "more power". So I totally agree with your ability to get a huge amount of versatility out of the best fighting pistol ever designed! A caliber I don't recall you mentioning is the 40 Super. It is a necked-down 45 Winchester Magnum (another 1911 wildcat) necked down to .40 caliber. It is hotter than 10mm and can comfortably push a 220-grain flat nose hard cast at 1350-1400 FPS. To my knowledge, it only requires a barrel change to a 45 ACP 1911 (Don't quote me). A gentleman on UA-cam tested 40 super hard casts and they penetrated 57 inches in gelatin and left a very nasty wound channel, I'll leave the link below.
ua-cam.com/video/boEJG-HpmlY/v-deo.html&ab_channel=TheTurkey%27sOpinion
Sorry for the long post, but I love your content and I thought I would share some of my experiences that mirror your own as well share a lesser known wildcat. Looking forward to next week's video, great job as always "The Cartridge King"!!!
Not sure I can live up to any title which includes "King, " but thanks for the kind words. I think I will be doing a video on "horsepower," with so many folks jumping on the "more is better" bandwagon. For shooting people, a bullet which does maximum damage with reasonable penetration is the best bet and bullet technology has advanced to the point where we can get that from almost any "normal" pistol caliber in conventional or +P loading. For big critters you need maximum penetration and using a Lehigh all-copper or wide-flat-nose cast/treated lead bullet will give maximum possible damage along a deep, straight wound path. Again, normal or +P loads will give that penetration. The guru at now defunct Beartooth Bullets had done a lot of research with hard lead bullets with very wide, flat noses (as close to a wadcutter as you can get and still function reliably). He said 1000-1300 feet per second gave maximum penetration. Above that velocity the wound path would widen, but penetration would start to drop - but non-deforming lead or copper bullets generally have a LOT of penetration to spare, so doing more damage is good to a point. I doubt any critter would know whether the deep wound path was made by a bullet at 1100 fps or 1800 fps. So, why beat up your pistol and yourself any more than you need to. .45 Super ... OK, I guess, but a .45 +P can launch a deep penetrating bullet at 1000 fps + and the 10mm can launch a 200 -220 grain deep penetrator to 1200. Like I subtitled my #1 Bear Defense video - Precision not Power.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I agree with your synopsis of precision over power. I originally wanted to chase the power of the .460 Rowland but never mostly felt the need for such. I shoot 45 super just enough to maintain proficiency, but limit my round count because of the extra battering it gives the pistol. I also don't push the loads to unsafe levels. My hand loads out of a 45+p with hard casts have been pushing 925-950 fps, while my supers push that about another 150-175 up to around 1100. I should mention I'm relatively new to reloading so I have not felt the need to push the envelope of power thresholds per se, and have tried to stick to relatively safe numbers. Safety first for me. I have seen penetration tests of 45 + P and super hard casts but not side by side on the same medium. I have seen a 255-grain 45 super test done against a 44 magnum 255-grain Keith bullet (5-inch 1911 vs 4-inch 44) and was surprised to see the super penetrated a bit more than the 44 (37 vs 44 inches), so I've been happy with my Super hard casts for hunting and big game purposes, which are my only common use for the super but I still often carry +p hard casts. All of my loads seem to be in the 1000-1300 fps range you mentioned as I don't push the super to uncomfortable and nuclear level. Thanks for your thoughts, I have often thought that chasing the single most powerful load was often over-emphasized. If I get the opportunity to test some 45 Super and 45 ACP +p loads side by side this summer I'll be sure to share my findings.
I thoroughly enjoyed this one Mr. Fairburn. Thank you for the lesson. This entire series has been great.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have a Sig 1911 chambered in 40 S&W. It worked great as a 40. Most days, it is now a 357 Sig gun.
Colt made some .40 S&W pistols as well. They seem to be very finicky feeders in that cartridge.
Mine is a Honey Badger. It eats anything.
Scottish roots?! I knew there was a reason I liked you!! I'm still amazed at how well the 1911 design is. Which is why I have a few.
The legend states that a man named Fairburn rescued the Scottish King when he was unhorsed in battle, a thousand years ago or so. For that act of bravery and strength, the King decreed that Fairburn would henceforth be known as Armstrong and gave him lands on the Scottish border. Clan Armstong ... "Invictis Maneo" ... "I remain unvanquished."
@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Outstanding!!
I forgot about Tony Rumore's 9mm super. He had a Lehigh 65gr bullet stepping out @ over 2700 fps.
The glock could absolutely handle as many different calibers/chamberings as the 1911 can.
The 1911 has been around a lot longer, and was the only realistic platform for making such variety of chamberings before the glock came along, therefore the 1911 has more variety by default. Love 1911's and Glocks. 2 of the most versatile, proven, reliable handguns to ever be invented.
I finally found a You tube channel I truly love! I've been saying many of these same things and toying with many of these same calibers for years! And am also a proponent of the commanded size 1911 although in the steel frames when chambering the hotrod calibers. A few others I can think of that while not necessarily chambered by any manufacturer have also been used in the 1911 platform by not only myself but others as well....38-45 hardhead, while similar to the 38-45 clerke(which I also have a barrel for) used either .451 detonics cases or cut down .45 win mag cases to withstand the higher pressure. I also have a 7.62x25 tokarev barrel that's been fitted to a .38 super and although it's been pushed to the back of the bench for quite some time (working out magazine/oal issues) I have either barrels or guns chambered in .40 super, 9x21, .356 tsw, 10mm centaur (developed by Dean Grennel also using .451 detonics cases), .38 Casull as well as every cartridge on your list. And I'll agree 100% that the 1911 is not only the greatest fighting pistol but also the most versatile and customizable semi auto platform ever designed. Thanks for some great videos and information!
Thanks for the kind words, glad you enjoy the channel.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb the only thing I love more than good 1911 content from a fellow 1911 guy is 1911's! I'd love to see more of it!
Dick, it was Evan Whildin, who was vice president of Action Arms in 1986, that developed the .41 Action Express. If I remember correctly, UZI and Speer made 210 FMJ's and 170 or 180 grain JHP's for that caliber. I had a Tanfoglio TZ-75 chambered in it. It was a bit finicky about loading, but when it worked it had quite a bit of bark. It was a great idea, it's a shame it didn't work 100% of the time. And when the .40 S&W came out, it got overwhelmed. Pity, because that round notably outperformed the .40 S&W. Also, those pistols often came with a 9mm conversion kit (slide, barrel, recoil spring and mag) and you could switch them out. Interesting design. BTW, I have a Sig 1911 Nightmare Fastback Carry chambered in .357 Sig and it runs great, a lot of power in a smaller 1911 package.
Thanks for the historical details! The fast 9mm cartridges should parallel the great stopping record of the 125gr .357 Magnum revolvers. Many of my shooting colleagues, like me, are switching to a 9mm or .357 Sig/.38 Super/Win 9x23 for their carry pistols. I think the recoil of a .45 is manageable for even small-statured shooters ... when they are young and fit. But arthritis is putting the .45s in the vault for many of us older shooters. The hot 9mms have a bit snappier recoil, but less FtLbs overall.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I get it, and one cannot ignore the affordability, carry-ability or capacity that the 9mm gives. I'm a large fellow, so a full metal P229 or P226 in .357 Sig with an extra mag isn't a problem for me, but I get when some smaller frame folks are attracted to a polystriker 9mm. I have many nines, but when I carry them I stoke them with pretty hot, lightweight rounds... I'm not a Kool-Aide guzzling believer in the FBI Ballistic Protocols, as I don't think they reflect reality and are more than partially politically motivated (I won't rant on that here). But parochial adherence to absolute need for certain penetration depths aside (in humans, that is), I favor 115 or 124 gr +P factory rounds for 9mm carry. However, I still believe that on balance it'll probably take more than a few shots from a nine to get the job done anyway, hence the capacity issue...they carry more rounds, but that's because I'll likely *need* more rounds.
I appreciated your detailed look into the history of uber-hot of 9mm rounds. On a side note, have you ever researched Federal's 115 gr 9mm +P+ 9BPLE round they made for the Illinois State Police? Pretty interesting story of a major state agency jumping off into super hot 9mm waters.....
@@texas-raider Actually ISP never used the Federal +P+ load you mentioned. The +P+ round they used was loaded by Winchester, using a 115 gr JHP - essentially the same bullet as their Silvertip load at the time without the "silver" nickel plating. The Federal +P+ 115 load clocked about 1240 fps from my 4 inch P7M8 while the Winchester load was going about 1300 ... a very hot 9mm load.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Ah! Thanks for the correction....
Dick, you just gave a very interesting video on the 1911 cartridge,1911 platform.i have always asked the question to alot of people about why the 40s&w is not Chamberd in a 1911 but only para ordinance many years ago for a little while. You said something about the geometry.well in this modern age that we live in that don't make sense to me.I am 70years old been shooting and reloading since 1975 . again you explained the 1911 very well thank you.
I don't understand why the .40 doesn't work well in a standard 1911, I just know I have seen several that were noticeably unreliable. In the shorter 9mm-length Springfield EMP platform, the .40 seems to run splendidly.
Your voice is easy to listen to,
and you have interesting topics.
You kinda sound like the voice of resistance you would hear on the radio in some post-apocalyptic world. 😊
Hope we don't get to that point.
I know someone who had a 50GI in NY. It did not last long due to cost. I think it got lost in his safe.
Fellow rural illinoisan. Thanks for your content and your law enforcement service.
The "real" part of Illinois is south of I-80.
@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb I'd count Ogle County as part of real illinois. We are up north here but not much else is!
@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb in my town of 2900 ppl you would be hard pressed to find a democrat.
Born and raised around Rend Lake, moved to Kentucky in 2014. Love my cornfields but screw FOID and Cook County
@@jamesday7344 can't argue with that.
I’ve wondered about the different camberings. . Particularly enjoyed your research and commentary. Keep the info and insights coming.
I may have missed it, also not certain of the metric conversion, but I don’t think you mentioned the 30 Luger? I actually have one (1971 production). It’s a LW Commander, built for the Italian market. Very low production and quite rare here in the US. As always, great job!
I did mention the 7.65 Luger (.30 Luger), but keep watching ... I can sure as hell make mistakes!
I know a guy with a 10mm RIA 1911 that feeds and fires 40 S&W flawlessly. No ignition problems either.
It headspaces on the extractor, of course.
Most 10mm pistols will function with .40 S&W ammo. In my limited experience, the .40 works better in a 10mm 1911 than it does in a dedicated .40 barrel.
OhioCruffler I had a box of 40 cal laying around I ran through my Kimber that cycled through it the same way.
No problemo.
9mm Fan-boy here but die-hard 1911A1 fan!!! You spoke of your 1st 1911 being the Colt 70-Series-that was MY first also, and I was hooked! That was back in the mid-'80's(?). I remember watching "Last Man Standing" and thinking are those Hi-Powers??? Because of the high capacity, but the time frame didn't match up as Prohibition ended BEFORE the Hi Power was introduced, then I paused the dvd and was like, wait a minute, those are 1911's!!! Unless I missed the part where Smith goes forward in time and picks up a couple Paras or Caspians, then returns, WTF, how's he blasting off 20-30 rds at a time WITHOUT a reload. Bubble burst. Great video, sir!!!
I barely remember that movie, will have to look it up ... most movies are TOTALLY unrealistic. Even with a 10+1 single stack 1911 in 9mm or .38 Super, they can easily turn into 20-30 shooter with the miracle of movie magic.
.22, 9mm, 9x21, 9x23mm, .38 super, 40 Short and weak, 10mm, .45 ACP, 50 GAP, 460 Rowland. 38/45-38 Casull .38 midrange wadcutter. (only in a straight blowback Gold cup and a few custom guns)
The .455 Webley auto was the second cartridge chambered for the 1911. Colt made it for the British in WWI. Ballistics were a bit less than .45 ACP and it required a different magazine.
That sounds right ... I should have figured out any WWI cartridge would supersede the .38 Super in 1929. Thanks!
I have both the 45 SUPER and the 40 SUPER 1911s
.40 Super is a new one to me, I just looked it up. Did you just install a .40 Super barrel in a .45?
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb The 45 SUPER is a Para Ordnance P14 I converted over two decades ago by installing a heavier ricoil spring, longer ejector, lighter titanium firing pin, and a stronger extractor.
The 40 SUPER I bought about two decades ago is an STI 40 SUPER model of the Trojan with a 5½" barrel and a single port comp single stack 1911 I bought new at the time for about $800. At the time they also were selling a 6" long slide version as well, but at the time I opted for the 5½" version for the comp port.
The drawback to the 40 SUPER is that it doesn't work well with the grip angle of 1911 because the upper rounds in the magazine wants to pivot on the lower round bottle neck shoulder into a downward orientation, jamming in the magazine if you load more than four or so rounds in the magazine.
However, the velocities are quite incredible with 135gr bullets at 1800 ft/s. I've chronographed 2000 ft/s with 100gr solid copper bullets in hand loads, but that load isn't something I'd shoot much of, it's a very hot load.
@@Oldhogleg The magazine problem would keep it out of the self-defense role in my book. A different magazine might help.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb No doubt. I do carry it my self on occasions because it's essentially a Magnum and it'll have little problem penetrating cover like vehicles and low level body armor, not to mention a shit load of energy and velocity. So I don't feel all that under gunned having no more rounds than a revolver since my doctrine is to shoot my why away from a gun fight; not to get dogged down in a drawn out gun battle. Besides, perps typically flee the second they're receiving returned fire anyway. But that's just me.
@@Oldhogleg Statistically, most flee at the sight of a gun without it even being fired.
Keep it coming !
As always great info and thank you.
450 smc, 45 super with small rifle primer, cases are even stronger than super cases, Double tap is the only one making them
Hey Dick, Love your channel. I'm curious if you know anything abut the Tisas Desparado that comes with a 9mm barrel and a 38 super.
I have no personal experience with the Tisas pistols, but some folks I trust speak highly of them ... especially at their price point.
How about the 224 BOZ, a 10mm case necked down to 22 caliber?
460 Rowland with a comp from Rowland is not as bad as the 10mm without a comp. Recoil is lower as is the muzzle flip. But the 460 is real good for hunting application. Great overview.
Love my Tisas Yukon Carry Commander 10mm, but my 5” Government SA Ronin is the absolute best value I’ve seen, forged frame & slide, great looks and dead on, even with some mim parts here and there!
I Carry a Tisas 1911 B45.❤ Fellow Tisas person
@@generalpurpose6517 I'd replace those MIM parts with forged ones, if the gun is used seriously.
@@SonnyCrocket-p6hwhat MIM parts would that be?
Tisas don’t use the mim parts that you might find in your Kimber, your Ruger, in your Charles Daily, your Rock Island and your US made Sig Sauer.
They aren’t going to make special crappy parts just to put in pistols they import to the US while they’re making indestructible parts they install in full automatic pistols they sell across the Middle East!
If they did install mim parts, then why would they bother to make their 1911’s with forged frames instead of soft machined metal stock?
Made cheap and cheap made are two different types of finished products!
@@SonnyCrocket-p6hTisas don’t use mim parts.
@@SonnyCrocket-p6h Tisas released a statement last year. I can't remember when it started but going forward, the only MIM part in their guns will be the recoil plug. Sounds impressive to me for such affordable 1911s!
2:00
actually 45 super uses the exact same chamber as regular 45 acp.
it just needs a stronger spring.
but the chamber dimensions are exactly the same.
I think I mentioned that.
Nice video. Have you looked at all the chambrings avaliable in the tangfolio/witness pistols?
Not in detail, but I know they will handle lots of rounds, like the 1911.
I used to cover a sales territory in the late 80's from Eastern Iowa over to the outskirts of Chicago, down to Champagne, and around to Quincy and all points in between, including Springfield and Peoria. My main distributor in Peoria was Geo Pasqual. Not sure they're still in business. So of course, I'm going to ask if the 1911 will play in Peoria? lol
I'm familiar with G. Pasqual & Company, drive by their buildings regularly, but I've never really looked to see if they are still open ... next time I'll look. The 1911 plays VERY well in Peoria. Many members of Peoria PD excercise their option to carry a personal 911.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Not surprised! Wish ya'll didn't have to deal with the commies in Chicago... I know that all of Illinois outside of that is solid Patriot country.
WHAT mod did they make on the 10mm frames? I did a couple of set screws thru the sides of the frame and into blind holes in the mainspring housing. If you want, you can locate these holes where the stock panels wont let the screws back-out by themselves.
Colt extended the cut for the slide stop up through the top rail on the left side of the frame, eliminating the area prone to cracking. I will show detailed photos on my next video covering 1911 modifications.
Thank you love the content lately between fighting rifles now decent pistols with metal frame not plastic glock n co i prefer. 1911 for natural point n shoot 😢or speed of draw n first shot placement n semi auto for speed of reloads but your seties is a real eye opener thank you so very much for sharing your info
Thanks for the kind words.
you missed the ,400 Cor Bon a .45ACP necked to .40. ;ove that 1911,
Great series, thank for all the work you do to enlighten us.😊
Have a 1970s commander 38 super. Did partial sizing of brass to take up slop in the chamber
That would certainly help. Is your Commander a lightweight frame?
Another three cartridges that i was able to find these are non colt pistols, .380 ACP, .357 Magnum and 7.62x25mm
Browning makes 1911s in .380 ACP and so does Rock Island Armory, Coonan Arms made a 1911 in .357 Magnum, it was not very popular and the company went out of business in 2019. Norninco made conversion kits for 1911 in 7.62×25mm Tokarev and you can still buy the parts needed to do it yourself.
I didn't list the .380 because they are in smaller than normal sized 1911 clones. I covered the smaller 1911 pistols in the commercial variations video. The Coonan was a dedicated frame size for the .357 Mag revolver cartridge. I was not aware of the 7.62x25 Tokarev variations, thanks.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jbah I understand.
What a mystery, if the Springfield emp can get it right they must know something the others don't. Been a 40 fan boy from the beginning because the 40 has the best of both worlds of the 9 and 45.
I purchased a 22TCM slide for my RIA 9mm/22tcm, then I had to buy the barrel bushing and the metal rod with the spring and found the whole situation too time consuming. So, why not purchase a whole pistol, so someone's R&D department makes sure that my pistol is safe. I did want an increased capacity 1911 for carry, so I got the RIA BBR with a 10 rnd mag, the maximum allowed in the people's republic of NY. Then I bought a p937, p220, p225, p226 and an sp2022 sigs with a 357 sig barrel for the only polymer sig I own. Now S&W 4566, 4006, 3914, cs45 and cs9 covered anything I wanted to carry.
Sounds like you have quite selection to choose from.
In Grizzly country, would you rather have a 1911 in 45 acp with buffalo bore ammo, or a 1911 in 10mm..?
With equivalent hard, penetrating bullets, I think either would work. But, I have both and choose the 10mm ... smaller diameter equals higher sectional density for bullets of the same weight, so greater penetration. 10mm generates more energy, but I feel that has little to do with terminal performance. Non-deforming bullet construction and a flat point yields deep straight-line penetration. You are free to disagree.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Thanks for reply..!
.50 GI uses a bigger frame. A .50 doesn't fit a .45 ACP 1911 magwell
I like the 10mm with 220 grain hard cast bullets going 1200 fps. for bear protection. I am no expert but I do know that I can place my shots with my Glock 20 and I know that hard cast bullets pushed that fast will penetrate really well and defeat the bone. A 1911 in 10mm would probably be even more controllable. But if I didn't own a 10mm and had a 1911 that can handle 45 Super, that would be my choice also with hard cast bullets - 250 rain rnfp. Those have fed well for me in my 1911's - but I never loaded them into 45 Supers...
Sorry to ask here. Been thinking about what you said regarding carry insurance or liability insurance. What company do you recommend?
I use a service of the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) which is only available to active or retired LEO FOP members - mostly because it has no limits on the dollar amounts for legal representation, settlements/awards, etc. For me it is the best bang for the buck. My wife uses USCCA. I work for Delta Defense - parent company of USCCA - as a writer for Concealed Carry magazine, so I don't endorse any insurance or legal representation company, I just tell you what we use.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb Thanks for the reply.
Hi! It's me again. From the little I've seen, the 1911 models I've seen chambered in .460 Rowland, the models available chambered in this cartridge has had a tendency to jam. It has to do something with physics, but the 10 mm Auto seems to do well, so I have no idea why this would be. Maybe manufactureing of the models have something to do with it.
I have zero experience with the Rowland, but the videos I have watched of people shooting them do seem to show some malfunctions, even with Glocks and FN conversions.
Usually malfunctions when converting to 460 Rowland is in the magazine. The comp can only do so much to slow the slide down, but it's generally cycling faster than a stock magazine spring can keep up with reliably.
See the other comment about needing stronger magazine springs.
@@rogerwood5228Wilson combat has specific 460 magazines for sale.
I think 460Rowland site does too.
@@rogerwood5228Thank you!
What about the 45 Winchester Magnum. I thought that was for the 1911 pistol? I don't think they ever got very popular. I remember reading about it when I was young, and thought I thought wanted one. I ended up buying a Smith & Wesson 686 357 Magnum instead of trying to find one, then having to make my own ammo. I have never seen a box of 45 Winchester Magnum on a shelf anywhere.
The 45 Win Mag and 9mm Win Mag were designed for the Wildey pistol, which never became a big hit. Both rounds are too long to function in a 1911 action.
oh, well thanks for informing me. I knew they never got popular, that is why then.@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb
I have a stock 38 Super Colt 1911 A1...so I can shoot 9x23Win in my 38 Super?
Because of the SEMI-RIM of the ,38 Super +P, it does not cycle the 9x23 Winchester RELIABLY.
I acquired a 1911 CHAMBERED FOR the 9x19mm Parabellum and had it re-barrelled FOR 9x23. The 9x19 and the 9x23 have almost the same rebated rim dimension so my experience regarding functionality has been good.
I dont understand why you'd want one of these oddball calibers. Ammo is expensive and hard to find.
I think it just illustrates the wide demand for the pistol around the world, wanting to get one in "your" caliber.
Wasn't the floating chamber invented by Carbine Williams ?
Yes.
When you converted your .45 ACP Commander to .38 Super, did you have to change other parts aside from the barrel?
Slide, barrel, recoil spring, slide stop and magazine.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb were you also able to replace the ejector on the frame?
@@rexhinlo3398 Didn't need to be changed.
.400 Cor-bon!
Very informative video I enjoyed it😅
Glad you enjoyed it!
You didn't mention the 45 gap
Colt has never chambered the GAP and I don't recall anyone else chambering it either. If you know of one chambered for the GAP, let me know. The GAP was created for 9mm sized pistols which can't handle the .45 ACP, no reason for it in a 1911.
RIP Bud. I miss my old pups that have passed...
Thank you, he was the best!
👍👍
I thought that the military required 850 plus or minus 25 fps.
I will have to dig out my copy of Hatcher's Notebook, but I believe the nominal velocity for the .45 ACP Ball cartridge is either 830 or 835 feet per second. The old military specs quote the velocity several feet from the muzzle, so muzzle velocities will be a bit higher.
I absolutely enjoyed this video, I learned a good deal from it, and I sincerely thank you.
I never owned or even fired a .45 GAP and, in fact, I found it to be semi-insulting (both the Clinton politics and the idea a “substitute” for Browning’s genius), BUT I wonder if a standard 1911A1 could be modified to fire it (understanding, of course, that there would be no reason whatever to pursue this concept)?
I've never heard of a .45 GAP being chambered in a 1911 ... The idea of the GAP was to fire a .45 bullet from a 9mm-length pistol action. A few large police agencies adopted Glocks in .45 GAP, but I think most of them have moved on to another caliber due to ammo costs.
Carry a compact 1911 loaded with Speer Gold Dot 230 grain Short barrel.
Dick You really think the 1911 is the ultimate fighting pistol? As auto loaders go I personally don’t care for them much. My younger brothers like them but they really aren’t my thing personally. I like the Sigma series of S&W, I still have my SW40VE and totes it until I discovered subcompacts. I like revolvers too but not Taurus. I can’t fault 1922’s for anything they just aren’t my preference. It’s not capacity or too big or anything but I really like many other models better is all. I like the Beretta 92, awesome pistols there, and I threatened to carry my SAA in 357 before I traded it off.
Nighthawk makes a 1911 chambered for 30 Super Carry. The single stack magazies hold 12 rounds.
Wasn't aware of that, thanks.
the AMT in .30 carbine.
I stuck to standard-size 1911s, the AMT .30 was a bigger frame for the longer round. I should have mentioned my limits in the video.
Anything but .45ACP is sacrilege since the 1911 was designed and made for that caliber.
As I get older, and after carpal tunnel problems, I limit the time I spent with a .45 (though I still carry it when I pack a bigger-than pocket size pistol). The .38 Super/Win 9x23 are really fascinating and I will be doing a video specifically on that hot road soon. The 9mm is the up and comer in the 1911 ... the popular 9x19 cartridge paired with the 1911 trigger ... pretty nice package.
Ria 22TCM
You skipped over the Coonan chambered in .357magnum. A 1911 firing a rimfire magnum cartridge, I'm sure this was an accidental oversight. Nobody's perfect.
I'm not perfect. I discussed the Coonan in the previous video, I stuck to the standard-sized 1911s for this cartridge list, I should have mentioned that.
The N Frame S&W
No 38 acp that was the frist
.38 ACP came first, but not in the 1911, in previous Colt/Browning designs. The .38 Super was the version chambered in the 1911.
Nighthawk makes a 1911 in 30 Super Carry
You are right, thanks!
You do good work. I hope you’ll do a similar series on Glock.
So many models ... I can tell a couple of interesting Glock stories.
in my novice opinion (4 months pistol use 9mm [Walther not Glock]) 1911 pistols are over-rated for two practical reasons, cost and maintenance needs; optics and the "cool" factor mean absolutely nothing.
I feel they are still the ultimate fighting pistol but require a more refined build and more complicated maintenance. For most users, the simplicity and price of a polymer/striker pistol are the better choice.
@@lockloadwithdickfairburn-cr1jb
That’s the key word FOR 1911 pistols: “refinement.”
The 1911 has spawned a strong aftermarket industry since the early 1960s with several custom pistolsmiths offering a bewildering roster of options to enhance both the functionality & aesthetics of this mature design. This can be done on an all metal gun whereas many more of the modern designs tend to gravitate towards a less-custom-able platform such as with moulded polymer frames.
Algorithm
Appreciate the video Sir. GOD BLESS
Same to you!