How NOT to use cams for climbing trad gear - with break test!
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- We give you lots of tips on how NOT to use cams and a few tips on how to do it. We break our first cam at the end!
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Only had time to watch the first 2 minutes, but this was super useful. Heading up The Nose now. Wish me luck!
godspeed
You got this! 😂
💀
It would be so great if everyone who doesn’t understand jokes and actually needs disclaimers went bye bye. This is why we should never give disclaimers because the people who need them don’t need to be alive.
Good luck!!
This started as an actual how NOT to place them. I tought it was sarcasm with the title
I always wanted to know how those things failed, always thought they would just slip out at lower forces if the crack is kinda parallel, but apparently it still takes 10kN! Awesome! One idea though: maybe just buy a piece of Granit Slab or something and stick it to the metal part of the snapping-tool. Would that make it more realistic don't know just an idea xD
Buy ? Just take a rock hammer and smack a few rocks!
What great educational content. Thank you
Thanks for the cool video! I don't understand what this breaking test is supposed to tell me as in reality you dynamically load your cam. I mean usually I fall on them, which generates a high dynamic force, and then hang. If the cam handled the dynamic force then the hanging force will alway be fine. Or am I missing something?
This break test was just to show off. Our future cam break test videos you can walk away from smarter.
@@HowNOT2 in this video two researchers from ETH Zurich did dynamic tests with standard carabiners ua-cam.com/video/siU7Y10PdNI/v-deo.html (in German). They broke at about half their static strength. It would be super cool to see this kind of stuff for cams.
Ask me if you want to have more details from the video.
Break Dog leashes please My dog pulls about 4KN and I need to know what to use
I would personally recommend 1/2in amsteel with a spliced eye(so you don't lose strength) it's what I've been using with my massive chihuahua and he has never broken it
I'm curious what happens with horizontal placements when the stem is going over a lip and the cam doesn't have a flexible stem like the X4s or Z4s
me too! I will break many cams in this situation
Here for the algorithm, keep up the good work!
Thanks. Cheers to another algorithm bump! haha
Love it. What effect does placing the cam in metal vs rock have? Is that a comparable test? I wonder if there is a way to some how set up a concrete crack to test...
Metal is a bit more likely to slip (lower coefficient of friction) but I'd expect similar strength. The tapering fixes the slipping issue.
Forgot to add: metal is stronger than the rock, there are cases where cams or other pro fail by fracturing the rock instead of breaking. Metal won't simulate that.
I got a set of old ones from maybe the 90’s or so floating around. Only problem is I’m based in Australia, so postage would take some time. Let me know if you want them.
Thank you! Great testing, sadly my cams are too nice to break :/
i want to see a home depot carabiner/ring/other break test.
Thanks. Geologist-guy who asked for recent comment deletion... you rock,,, love your projects and focus. One of only a dozen i care to follow/subscribe. I'll send you some apatite crystals i exhumed in Bancroft, Ontario if i find your address,.
OMG. I miss placing cams. Open up the state parks so we can climb again.
Can Tricams also walk deeper into the crack when being moved around by the rope or is this just the case with cams/friends with their mechanicsl apparatus?
You: "Just like learning highlining"
Me: no thanks. My balls are not big enough to serve as balast weight
Read in some cam manual that placing them in opened wide position is no good. Metolius i think, they even got warning red/yellow dots in these 'regions' of cam. Could you test cam in a good crag, but which (cam) is a bit small for it? so it was squeezed just a little when placed
The only time you fall upward is after you fell downward.
By then you won't need gear going up.
Question, the cam you tested that slipped at 10kn and ultimately failed at 13.5kn, what was it's max kn rating? Same question for the sling that snapped 13kn+.
Very interesting test to watch, more plz.
Thanks.
we do a full episode where we break a bunch of cams and go into all the details. publishing it soon!
Amazing and I don't even rock climb
Seems scary. I want to learn to lead and trad but I’d be so scared my protection would fall out. I’d have to take some courses and lessons. Seems like either bad placement or rope movement could kill you easily
What about breaking cams against granite, not steel?
Doing that this weeknd!
The cams have the same rating as amazon carabiners how odd
May I suggest that you go to the local rock quarry and get rock and granite slabs to test with instead of metal/steal plates.
As a beginner climber, I am now utterly confused. Are there actually any correct methods here?
Why the sarcasm? So, what should you believe? Silly.
placing cams is a chess game while you are running out of strenght ! :D
Some words of wisdom from Ryan
Yes, this really stands out and will be remembered for generations. The proverbs of Ryan.....
Lol those first two minutes of frustration.
Just tie some knots then you won't place a cam wrong
Dude you’re missing the point. You place above your head so you can yard on it and french free through all the hard parts!! What a noob. 😜
I love this test. Its actually increasing my trust in a trad protection. Can you also break some nuts?
^^^^
for sure!
Dare I say.....BUST some nuts
😂😂😂😂
Tonée Viera you did not just say that 😂😂 😂
I have 3 or 4 cams that I pulled out of a crack the other day. Would you like them? Most would need to be reslung as they are 2010-2012
That would be great. Can you send me a photo to me on facebook? facebook.com/ryan.jenks.35
You the man
10:02 that "realllllly nice nut placement" isn't making much contact...
yeah that was sketchy lol
agreed, the constriction opens too soon below
Yeah I thought the same, but it wasn't a bad placement. Thought the one down lower was better
Be sure to notice that it is absolutely necessary to place gear early from the belay if you are already on the wall, to prevent falling directly onto the belay and getting close to creating factor 2 fall.
You’re a phenomenal teacher man. Me and my buddies have been climbing two years. Just ventured outdoors this year and love it. Been primarily sport climbing but we both just got a trad rack. You’re extremely helpful.
If I ever want this much sarcasm, I would just listen to my wife.
A small clarification on your Totem Cam comment at 5:30:
The only context where it's manufacturer approved to place a Totem Cam with only two lobes engaged, is aid climbing. Totem Cams aren't rated to hold lead falls in two-lobe placements.
What about 3 lobes?
To be fair I think the big ones are still rated enough for a lighter fall with two lobes but they say don't as a precaution. I certainly wouldn't go whipping on two lobes on purpose but I have had times where literally my only gear is 2 good lobes and 2 more barely touching, so a good chance it would be a 2 lobe placement in a fall and I'll trust it over nothing. Often those kinds of flares do end up being good tricam placements though.
You are seriously an asset to the climbing and high lining community. Thanks for all you do! I would donate if I wasn’t living hand to mouth
Can't afford it at the moment (I just moved, maybe next month) but I've simply got to send you a bunch of knots to break test in various cordage. And probably a set of Dyneema Tricams. Everybody loves tricams!
Would love to see a break test simulating a horizonal placement. See how much depth of placements comes into play with horizontal cams and how much over camming helps in that kind of placement
Hey guys, these break tests are awesome. I would love to see some tests with a high impulse (i.e. drop tests) that mimic real climbing falls!
Love the first 2:30... still laughing my ass off (did I give myself away as and old climber? Oh, yeah... I could have just typed "LMAO"... I'm still struggling to learn that new language...)
10:00 the nut placement is rubbish and dangerous, not really nice. There is a perfect constriction about 6 inches down that would take a size smaller nut and bomber.
was thinking literally the exact same thing, the lower placement on a smaller size too.
Agreed never ever place a nut like the one at 10:00.
I would like to see cams in side a 'real rock' adapter so we can see how effective they pull out. Such as two rocks epoxied to inside of metal case. As well as different angles of the holding device. I think for trad gear getting pulled out is more of a risk then the gear failing. So playing with angles and different rock textures is the most interesting testing.
ua-cam.com/video/GpDHZnqRpr4/v-deo.html
@@TheManCave563 hahaha that video was awesome
Is it me or is the audio way too compressed? It sounds like it's being recorded through a fish tank
It's like he is surrounded by rock. Overtones are nuts.
The first part reminded me of my friend
✅ huge double rack on single pitch of 5.7
✅ extends everything
✅ undercams everything
✅ never practices placing gear on the ground
Only took one bad fall to learn em but, I subscribed to your instant coffee just because that shout out was so real to me lol.
Who falls on 5.7...?
This video speaks to me, a person who enjoys not climbing all the time.
Love your stuff, though I do have one thing that did not sit well with me. When you placed that green nut at 9:58 if you seated that nut, which should be done everytime you place one, you would actually pull through and pop it out. I would clarify to give that stopper a nice tug so that the constriction you think is good at first doesn't just slip through after you weigh it.
Keep up the handy work!
Bouncing on cams and nuts close to the ground as a beginner is great for gaining confidence in your placements and your gear. Or showing you that you need more practice.
No way to get less scared of falling except to get more experience lead climbing though 😄
You are there first person that I've seen talk about "doing the math" while leading. I'm always calculating. It seems that a lot of leaders don't. I see some people running stuff out for no reason. I'm usually thinking, but my calculations if you fall you're gonna deck or worse. Hence the reason why I don't climb near other climbers lol. Got my sub 🤙
I do the math, then I wonder if my math is right! So I let go to check my work haha
@@HowNOT2 that's a hell of a way to check your math lol
Dude, f’ing top shelf beta. Thank you for the approachable, easy to digest info and tips. I did a ton of ‘ground school’ before getting up on trad and it was worth every second - may have even saved my ass a few times.
Great videos guys. I think it would be interesting to grab some large blocks of varying rock types to test gear in. Testing bolts in sandstone sounds particularly interesting!
LOL, you forgot to say, you also look like you're as hard as for carrying a crazy number of cams- but better take more than necessary for bomber pro LOL! I had to look to check that the upload date wasn't the 1st of April!
Can that really hold a fall?
You should do an old cam episode (80s through 90s).
people are sending some in! will do
Would like to see you guys break test a totem cam.
Awesome 😍
I like your breaking tests so much as they give a close insight in strenth of the material we use all the time. And this leads to much more confidence 😊
Although I like your highline content a lot I truely love the climbing related stuff. Thank you so much for all the efford. Plz break test more trad gear 🙏
I've got a set of 80's classic Wild Country Friend Rigid stems if you want, #2, #3, #4
That would be great. Can you send me a photo to me on facebook? facebook.com/ryan.jenks.35
These are some of the worst "how to" placements I've ever seen.
Great video, super-informative. lots of good advice. Thanks Ryan ;)
I understand it’s a pain if someone sticks it in somewhere hard to get out. But are climbers really expected to stick it somewhere where they have to judge PERFECTLY where it is instead of a place that will easily hold them?
This is coming from a non climbers but I’m interested lol
It would be cool to see something placed in real rock pulled.
It would be cool to see how cams and nuts break in various real rock situations, it seems like that would be the weakest link in the chain, the interface between the cam/nut and the rock, especially if placed less than optimally
*sees sling break, and sticky lobes* "I'd whip" *Sees cam basically bend in half* "Id still whip"
Always an interesting video. Great community. Keep up the good work.
Probably isn't a good idea to use sarcasm on an instructional climbing video. Hopefully, those who are watching You Tube videos to learn how to climb (precisely those who I worry about) watch past 2 min...
LOLed so much at this episode!
"you look rich and you look like you know what you're doing" - I think, I look scared and like I don't know the route if I take too many cams with me. Looking rich is of course, forbidden in the climbing community, but still everyone freaks out about cool gear, so a bit of a personality split disorder there ;P
Horizontal placements and perfectly parallel crack cam placements would both be awesome!
How much force does it take to bust a friend that has been 'accidently' placed on a single pair of lobs/cams. In other words, what kind of protection can you expect from a half engaged friend?
Glad to see that in these tests the sling breaks before any of the fancy mechanicals and not at the stitching, AS IT SHOULD BE!
Synergo! I work for them.
Hey , I know this video isn't very new. However, I have some old rigid stem cams that I think would be cool to destroy. How do I get them to you? Also, I don't have e enough for a whole video so how do we make sure we get to watch them SNAP!
9:00 never place a cam like this
I find this interesting, however I have no idea if that amount of pressure was "good" or not? (Not a climber, just find it interesting.)
Can somebody explain to me why cams only need to hold 8kn, but carabiners 22kn? Dont they have the same force on them when you fall?
8 kN = 8000 newton / 10 (9.82newton) = 800 kilo vertical load . thats close to 1 ton . about 2000 LBS pounds
"... you're not ok with falling? Don't lead climb". Nice one.
Could you do a dynamic test? I think it's more realistic isn't it?
Great job guy! & Bd, sponsor this channel! This is the best advertisement money can buy.
Someday! I hope BD picks up the bill haha
I'd love to see whether webbing or cord is more abrasion resistant. For anchor applications like top roping over an edge.
I've always wondered whether wires, nuts and stoppers were really the same thing, but I was too afraid to ask. Thanks!
I hated using cams. Much preferred a decent rock or hex. My worst falls were thanks to cams falling out.
i dont even climb, higline, slackline...but i fucks with you for the knowledge of rope fun
My face is blood red. I made all of these mistakes with the exception that i'm perpetually broke
No, I don't use cams,
My explanation might
be uncomfortable.
Cannot wait to watch teh cam crusher put in some more work! Really cool to see where the cam breaks first.
Did some more... publishing soon!
surely you must have reached out to kolin powick and the BD qc lab stuff for testing cams etc?
From my point of view, in horizontal cracks, it's better to place the external lobes of the cam device in the bottom side of the crack. So the base is increased and the cam device is more steady and balanced. Regards!
Here’s an idea: pull test bad placements bad surface area nuts, unequal lobe placements on cams, etc...
I’ve actually code a prety bad crack. At least there is one.
Lol love ur videos the help me a lot
OMG I feel called out. But this is a hilarious way to drill home best placement
Have always wanted to see this thank Ryan!!
"If you don't like falling, don't lead climb."
Yes.
Can you make cams beaking test in the crags?
I have nothing important to say I just want the algorithm to pick this up 👍
I just got my first cam set getting ready to play with them, thanks for info
What I love about cams is when they decide to walk on you when you’re 10ft above them working through the crux
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I always think about the reverse zipper effect too.