Built for Battle? Kumari Class Battlecruiser
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- Опубліковано 2 лис 2022
- this week we take a closer look at the andorian Kumari Class Battlecruiser as it appeared in Star Trek Enterprise (And is yet to be added to STO) today we delve into the pride of the andorian fleet, and learn that this old ship had a few tricks up its sleeve. but would it be enough to defeat her vulcan rivals?
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The added propulsion units are there because the Andorian Mining Consortium runs from no one.
Sure doesn’t.
ESP if Shran is in command.
Always hungry for Andorian material, my favorite aliens from Star Trek.
I really think they missed a massive opportunity with enterprise, they should have had each of the main Federation races have design elements for what would be Starfleet ships.
In a way they did, but it could have been more.
The Andorian ships could have looked like the secondary hulls of Federation ships… rocket shaped.
And then in season 5 (!) of Enterprise, the secondary hull provided by the Andorians to upgrade the NX class makes total sense.
Your thinking the US Navy fighter/bombers we used in WW2 like the Grumman fighter/bombers . I never even noticed until you said it but you are quite right that is what they resemble.
The Kumari does put the "battle" in battlecrusier in a way only matched by the Klingons. They are indeed well designed as a catch-up counter to the raw power of Vulcan vessels.
As for crew size; on one hand, it is a mid-range pure combat vessel unlike Starfleet ships which are also designed for science & long-range exploration. On the other, 22nd century automation is far behind 24th century automation & it forgets about the Andorian marines.
Yeah I think they were still going on TNG crew scaling. Crew sizes would be proportionally bigger. What complement do you reckon for a ship like the NX
@@venomgeekmedia9886 ; Well the NX class (pre-Earth-Romulan War) lacks a secondary hull, and really only has the necessary bare minimum amenities unlike later Starfleet ships.
It also has a total of 87 crew quarters with most being made for two people. There were addition special quarters for guests, but their number is irrelevant here. "Hot bunking" also seems to not be a thing in Starfleet.
During the Xindi Crisis, on the Enterprise there were 7 senior crew (7 quarters) and 36 MACOs (likely 18 quarters). That leaves 62 quarters. 62x2=124.
However not every crew quarter is likely to be fully occupied (and probably a few of them are one person quarters).
So, to keep in mind the canon number of 83 crew, the USS Enterprise NX-01 would have 83 crew (not including MACOs), but only because it *rushed into service.* 110-120 (not including MACOs) would be the standard crew size for the class overall though, depending on the mission.
This is just my guesstimate though.
Andorians also have a relatively small population. So they should by necessity have smaller crews.
I think we can credit the United Earth for helping to negotiate peace between the Vulcans and the Andorians. If that didn't happen, then the Earth/Romulan war would have been the Romulans plucking-off the United Earth, Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites one by one.
Indeed.
I wonder how that would've gone....
@@alanmike6883 Depends. If they go the invasion route and enslave everyone or go the more subtle way and slowly mold each government into a usable client state for the Romulans.
Basically either the Baltic invasions by the Soviet Union vs. the creation of a dependent communist Poland by the Soviets
Yes that certainly was the romulan plan. Divide and conquer
@@venomgeekmedia9886
I think you can say the Romulans messed up.
By attacking earth, they essentially made the humans save everyone. Not because earth was powerful because it wasn't but Because like in Babylon 5, humans make communities
The Vulcans would most likely have mined out the materials for good armor by that point in history from the planet but I would assume they would be mining asteroids and other planetary bodies for the heavy metals and minerals that they would need even if Vulcan itself had been mined out. Possibly they would trade with Earth for what they need also.
In many ways this ship has as much of later Federation design in it as the Enterprise of the time. There is a distinct section equivalent to the saucer connected by a narrower neck section to an engineering section where the ship is once again wider and there are warp nacelles extended from the main body of the ship connected to the engineering section. Things get slightly adapted and shifted but much of the DNA for later designs is there. It is almost as if the Vulcan designs are the 'dead end' design path with future Federation shipbuilding following a combination of primarily Human and Andorian design.
Good observations.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Thanks! I noticed these a while back, when checking to see if Enterprise had gotten better after S1 (when I dropped it while it was in syndication) and I have liked this ship ever since.
@@matthewkeeling886 Well, there are some gems in S1 and S2, and basically every episode that includes Jeffrey Combs is a win in my book. But while S3 has some proper good episode's, it isn't out of the stinkers at all. S4 is where it shows where it could have been among the best Star Trek shows.
@@Tuning3434 I have watched it since actually. I think you are overrating S3 a bit but otherwise I have similar views on the show. I would have preferred if the show downplayed Tucker and focused more on Sato and Mayweather among the crew though, they actually have interesting personalities and stories to tell but far too little screen time to actually tell them.
I love this ship. And I can kinda agree that this isn't a Star Trek Ship (tm) ;) But then Enterprise was deliberately NOT a Star Trek show. At least not at first - and the Kumari does appear in Season 1. I've always had the impression that this was a ship of the pre-Star Trek era of the ST universe. Deliberately displaying a design philosophy that would later be considered obsolete. A lineage of design that was moved away from in the future.
Finally I have a chance to watch this. Thanks very much for covering it. This along with the Xindi Reptilian Ship are my favourite ships that we got to see in Enterprise. I always liked the Kumari because it has a strange marriage of brutalism and grace in its design.
Love the Kumari's gull style wings.
I thought near the end of ST Enterprise Series they said the Federation incorporated the Andorian shields into their fleet because they were the best. As far as I understood it (maybe I'm mixed up)....Vulcans had the best warp engines, Andorian had the best shields and Stat Fleet was good at getting all of the stuff to work together/good ship builders and eventually ruled all sensors
Huh. I like it. It's a specialized ship designed around countering the primary adversary. It's built upon analysis of Vulcan tactics and technology, and designed to be strong against it. That also means that the design is 'newer'. The Andorians needed teh time to see Vulcan ship development, for the Battleship to have mass deployment, and then the time to work on a design/the teething issues to counter it.
The Corsair is the fighter you are thinking of venom geek 🙂
Remember the Andorra shared their phaser technology in the war with the Klingons
Kumari , I like it . Looks like a front line buster . Bust the enemy lines open an ram steamrunners into the ranks . Stay awhile an muck things up .
Jad me with the title. Cheers, ome of my favourites,. I would like to see Klingon bird of prey type cannons on the wings, or a Babylon 5 white star esq , 3 deul forward facing twin canon with a main forward beam weapon. Imo
I love the idea that the prow section is modular! That is a really cool idea! Maybe variants have science-based modules, troop carrying modules, maybe one has a giant underslung cannon.
For the nacelles they may be a primary and a secondary back up sets.
Shields fail and the pods one get damage?
Engage the inner ones and gtfo or finish the fight and limp back.
The Kumari is a lovely looking ship, I used one in stfc and enjoyed using it.
Interesting. I’m in the US and I like Marmite. I like a thin spread of it on wheat toast and topped with a poached egg. Delicious. By the same token I like the Kumari ship.
We accepted a giant golf ball as a legitimate Star Trek Vessel, so there is that.
What
What ship is that? The First Federation vessel from ToS?
You mean the Xindi Death Star, or that First Federation Fesarius?
@@vic5015 Borg Sphere maybe?
@@ReddwarfIV Could be Borg Sphere, could be the Suliban spheres, could be the Sphere builders, or even the Daedalus.
With Andorian particle cannons being blue and specialised for taking down Vulan shields, one must wonder if they're Tetryon-based. It would make a lot of sense because Tetryon beams are blue and are optimised for maximum shield damage.
well thats sto unfortuantely, but in sto they have andorian phasers that come with the andorian ships, so i guess they use phasers
I think it may have been to relate to the blue phasers of TOS
@@venomgeekmedia9886 But why the Andorians? Why didn't they give those to Enterprise?
@@Hierachy It is STO but it was first seen on Voyager because the Hirogen had them. They used Tetryon beams to bring shields down because they wanted to board the vessels and hunt the crew.
@@AvroBellow but blue beams dont neccesarily mean tetryon...like how some klingon ships use phasers and they are green...or how TOS phasers are blue..
Season 3 torpedoes are mentioned twice, ( proving ground) these torpedoes remind me of my academy days , and in zero hour , shran ordered a torpedo shot on a xindi warship , we dont see the shot but the ship was destroyed and it was the only andorian ship . Season 3 finale
I do think torpedoes were available. But I don't think the kumari made use of them given its never seen.
The Kumari is a worthy battlecruiser for the Andorians. It helped to make them credible players in the local stellar sandbox at least, and underscored their 'empire'. The Andorians clearly had issues with the Vulcans and hoped to escape their shadow, and this ship was a good attempt at doing just that.
I'm not sure how many there were, but they did seem to have more than a few of them. The D'Kyr was quite possibly designed and commissioned as a response to the Kumari? And, of course, the Klingons must have been a concern to both Vulcans and Andorians as well. I could imagine the Andorians struggling hard to outdo the Vulcan's speed and to take advantage of any weaknesses. What might be a four nacelle system makes sense for that. Indeed, it's safer in that if a nacelle gets knocked out, the ship could still cruise at a reasonable warp speed with the other set?
Battlestar Galactica? Yeah, I can see it, once someone says it. It does look like a mini-battlestar. Although, I guess I always just saw them as 'obviously' ice-tongs with wings! The forward prow head being the 'tongs', and the back engineering central engines being the 'handles'. With that in mind, I can't hardly see the ship any other way! Anyway, the Kumari looks rough and tough, advanced, but not too advanced. Very much like a ship a military power trying to stretch its tech level and martial engineering to overcome a superior foe might design. Very capable and worthy, but probably falling short of some of their objectives.
A fine video, pink skin.
One of the odd things I find in Star Trek (and other Scifi in general) is the lack of escort vessels. In almost every instance that we see Kumari battlecruisers, they are by themselves. That's not a good way to operate battlecruisers. You want to pair them with destroyers and light cruisers as a high speed scouting and raiding force. Battleships you pair with heavy cruisers and employ destroyers as a screen against light combatants.
well in a few episode we see some smaller vessels
I'll cover escorts in the andorian fleet breakdown. Because you are right but in Ki shara we see an escort craft.
@Venom Geek Media 98 I do recall seeing them occasionally. Just not often and they don't usually do what escorts should.
Vulcans were the Space Elves.
Andorians were the Space Gnomes/Dwarves
I love the concept of modular top and bottom hull segments, and the way the parts could be changed and or upgraded. It would make repairs, updates and refits a relatively easy process.
also the modular hull concept would allow for different configurations. Need a troop transport that can protect it's self effectively? there could be a module for that. Need a cargo hauler that can also protect it's self there could be a module for that also, and recon/sensor/spy ship? make a module. Need a cheap battleship? replace the front entirely for a more potent one with more weapons and shields , and enhanced weapons pods. The permutations could be endless. Pity we didn't see this path taken, specifically since trek loves to kit bash.
Alas kitbashes happen less and less in the age of CG models.
Well without the Vulcans it's doubtful the Andorians would ever had the need to develop such a vessel, speak of conflict driving innovation...
Anyway, both the Kumari and D'kyr are frighteningly powerful vessel. Must have been even more frightful starting to see them work together
The only thing is dont like is the wing , i prefer the top down view , the wings have that ww2 aircraft, split variable geometry wing , or the angle, from the front or back , but i genrlay love it , and its capabilities,, i got a little annoyed,, on spacedock video it claimed she had no torpedoes, yet in dialogue she definitely does, and i have questions about her shields, or the inability to poleris the hull , , ot sounds like shields were a new development and refit , we didn't hear about the Vulcans having them untill season 4 , and the term shielding is used. , but he sensors, speed , and canons , in my head canon the tos phasers are made by andorians. ( i think axanar had the same idea)
Well, if they did design this ship to run off such a small crew, they could build a lot of them to beat the Vulcans by numbers. From what I remember in the show they couldn't fight the Vulcans in 1v1 battles
7:55 Note: CWIS is just short for "close in weapons system", and is not reserved for missile interception or point defense weapons. So you can just use that in any context of close range weapons.
Love all these ship chats! Thanks Venom...again Im late to the party...lol
what if the side ports that you labeled boarding pods were actually torpedo launchers and Andorians had Torps that could launch, turn 90 degrees and accelerate, giving them the ability to basically fire 'off bore' which would have surprised the vulcans during their first engagements. just imagine a vulcan captain being all smug and confidant because 'well they have no torpedo launchers forward' and then the Kumari fires off four torps, he's still smug because 'well that was useless' and then suddenly less smug because -surprise- all four Torps have turned and are homing in on his ship.
I get the feeling that the Constellation and Challenger Class were "inspired" by the Kumari Class that and the impulse engines on the Kumari Class look very TMP Federation
She is a hunter, she was designed to face an enemy that was "better" or more dangerous. So it had be a hunter, think worlf and wolfpack.
According to the fan-made WaxingMoon Design deck plan for the NX. The ship Crew Standard complement should be around 110 with a Maximum of 130 and an Emergency Capacity of 180.
I Love the Kumari my God what a beautiful ship
If your right at the end saying it was designed to be upgraded that explains a whole lot of Starfleets doctrine. Starfleets ships are easily upgraded so this would get a good throwback.
I think the warp ring was more fuel efficient than a multiple nessel design but in my head cannon the volcans had already maxed out it's speed by the 22nd century which was ok because they were so far ahead of anybody when it came to warp that they didn't have to worry about speed for hundreds of years. Till the Klingon and andorians hit warp six. Then they had to start thinking about twin nessel again. And that's why the federation didn't use warp rings because the volcans had already maximized its potential.
Vulcan Pon far shock troopers.....now thats an idea, almost like Vulcan berserkers!
The Klingon are the only ones with a good torpedo. They had Photon torpedos that were good for the time but inefficient and slow because I don't think they had launchers yet or a way to fire them at warp
By this point they did. The ability to fire at warp came in the 21st century although the warheads were still inefficient
I got the impression that it could be an exploration cruiser as well. They seemed they were pretty far from home when they did the whole Andorian Mining Consortium ruse against the Xindi. Not as versatile for that as say a Miranda, constitution, or even NX class. They don’t strike me as being quite as curious as humans when it came to that but I think they were most interested in it as Vulcans or Tellerites. And it doubled as a pocket battleship. Basically a hunter killer of Vulcan capital ships. They wouldn’t try to slug it out with them. But they would ambush them and the damage done would be extensive and the Kumari would run. Other Andorian warships would swoop in before the Vulcan ships could adequately repair to outfight the Andorian ships in the 2nd fight.
A fleet of Haroldi and a fleet of Kumari attack Whitecastle
Galactica is a beautiful ship
2:12 - "It's Star Trek Jim, but not as we know it!"
Could the segmented crew compartments be there to prevent all living compartment from decompressing if a section is penetrated? I could also see it as a way to make quick repairs in dock, if a one section is too badly damaged, detach it, slap a new one on and get the ship back out in the fight.
Yeah there is that advantage of modularity too.
I just wish strartrek consoles didn't have whatever explosive material in them that makes them explode every time any little thing hits the ship.
I'd love to see some of those Andorian concept ships from John Eaves in Star Trek Online, they would do well as Federation escorts. Shran has to be one of the best and most honourable characters in Star Trek, Jeffrey Combs at his best as per usual.
Yeah that's a good idea.
The Xindi had very powerful ships. They would put up a great fight.
I love it. Given that they'd already come up with five distinct design languages with the Feds, Klingons, Kardies, Founders and Romulans, I'm impressed that they came up with such a good fourth. I've tried to design an Adorian ship with luck. KUMARI impressed me.
Yeah just shows how versatile the design language of trek really is.
Makes you wonder how season 5 would've been.
Since although the founders of the federation would contribute to some degree, the andorians did put in more.
What if the Romulan empire declared war on the vulcans or andorians instead...
Huh- I'm a "bit" of a BSG fan, and never put together the design similarities in the Andorian and Colonial ships; dang.
Though, on your deeper dives, I could see the forward split in the Kumari's hammerhead as a great place for a torpedo tube (or two) (for an updated/variant version of the class).
ALSO... what is that white Andorian ship in the image at 13:00? Looks like a Kumari and a Mark-II (or classic BSG) Viper had a baby.
The ship has a very slim combating profile...
I thought there were no more incompatible races than the Andorians and Vulcans, but then I saw the Tellarites... (if there are any typos, shoot Google Translate!).
Technical schematics add to the indepth fantasy experience .
Should do a video on the Tellarites cruiser and how it has the same basic body of the Arkonian/Xindi-Arboreal cruiser but has some very noticeable differences.
Yeah modularity is interesting. Did all these species contract the design from the same company.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That's what I've always wondered, but the three species are very different in their ideology and mindsets. Arkonians are militaristic and openly hostile, Xindi-Arboreals are said the be very patient (called lethargic by the other Xindi races) and the Tellarites were regarded as building some of the most structurally sound ships and have extremely durable hulls. So the fact that the Arkonians and Arboreals have identical ships but opposing ideologies, then the Tellarites had only 2 or 3 noticeable differences from their version always intrigued me. Then there's the fact that the Xindi do not use warp drives, but subspace vortexs instead. I know the real life reason was just reuse a pre-existing model to save time and money, but the in universe one always interested me.
@@Mechataur that would mean that Arboreals have a very durable cruiser that is foreign built.
For weapon systems I like the old jingle from AT&T , reach out reach out an touch someone . Damn I'm old .
You know you're old when you wake up in the morning feeling like your bed kicked your ass.
When you consider the founders of the Federation, Vulcan, Andorian and Tellarites had been hostile rivals for centuries the human dominance in Starfleet makes sense. None of the established powers was willing to give technology to a potential rival. Humans were nobodies, with no long standing enemies Earth was the compromise candidate.
2 things… 1) what if Andorians “found” Earth instead of Vulcans? 2) would love to see a TMP/TNG upgraded Kumari version… Andorian National Guard?
best star trek ships
It looks like it can easily be mass produced compared to other trek ships.
That video was damn good
Glad you like it. I hope you make some new videos yourself.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I wish I could but my main channel was taking up all my time... For the time being you're my source of All Star trek
@@trekwars5400 what's your main channel?
Just a word of warning I'll be very careful about saying anything on your channel people who have done this to help me they have been attacked by their organization hacking and other things of that nature I just telling you this as a warning. The Colt group hacked my personal accounts stole money from me . set members to stalk me at My home and work
I always thought it looked like a trimmed down Dreadnaught from SW
Would have been interesting if it took design clues from the defiant
I'm OK with this not looking like a Starfleet ship. This thing is pre-Federstuon and it's reasonable to expect Andorrian's to have unique designs with unique design influences.
Perhaps the added propulsion units are part of a _minor refit?_
Just had an idea for you Venom, could you do rundowns on the planets, their stars and solar systems? Just a thought....
Maybe
Oh you forgot the embark troops as remember they deployed and pick up a Regiment with 3 of these ships
hmm so how many troops per ship do you reckon?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 A Company likely say 300 to 400 maybe break into 3 ships to 1200 or each ship carries a Battalion but me a Company to play safe rsh in deploy a force and pull back why troops dig in and make too costly for a settlement to be made or too dug in unaware thats what the Romulan puppet masters want
I take it once in Federation Andorria, Vulcan and Tellerite navies adopt Earth tech for ships?
Enterprise and Andorian ships predate The version of the Galactica you used
Ahhh.. The uncultured.. It's more reminiscent of Babylon 5 ships.
Ahhh a plucked chicken 🤨
B5 designs were so diverse that almost any ship can be reminiscent of them.
I actually really like your comment about Vulcan being a finance that somewhat resource depleted. However, you’re forgetting Volin isn’t just a planet. It’s a solar system with potentially reservoir elements in the form of asteroids, asteroid belts and comments, as well as planets in the solar system and their moons.
I must admit, I'm one of the folks, that love the look. Got myself an Andorian ship in STO (one of the escorts) as soon as I could and don't regret it a bit. :)
Having only looked at the thumbnail, I literally thought this was a battlestar galatica ship.
So I can see some people's complaints.
If a wind sock dipped in cement can be a Star Trek ship, the Kumari is nothing by comparison
The doomsday machine.
We would’ve loved this ship back in the old FASA RPG , as well as Fleet tactical combat simulator! My favourite ships from a series I don’t particularly Enterprise.
Very interesting. I had always assumed that the Vulcan forces and the Andorian Imp. Guard were disbanded and recommissioned as Starfleet forces instead. But maybe it wasn't so smooth. In fact, now that I think about it, I'm certain it wasn't! It's possible that the Andorians were more enthusiastic about throwing in their lot with Starfleet. The Vulcans' caution and sense of superiority might have held them back from doing the same. Could this account for the design similarities between Andorian sips of this era and later Starfleet designs? No subsequent Starfleet ship seems remotely similar to Vulcan designs, though I stand to be corrected on that one. So what became of the Imperial Guard? Did they continue to exist as a force a tier beneath Starfleet, as a kind of local gendarmerie? Or were they consigned to history's dustbin? Same with the Vulcan forces...
In the books, the Vulcans dismantled their fleet following the Earth/Romulan war, turning them into the outposts along the neutral zone.
87 crew plus ground troops?
Even then that's pretty small for a ship that size in this era.
What about dominion war updates??? Did you just give up on those?
i will get back to that when this romulan business is done.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 bloody Romulans, always causing problems where ever they go.
nah 9 don’t buy that vertical nacelles thing sorry it has one pair of nacelles the center blue output is clearly impuls
But the other impulse units are red.
Crew compliment of 87?!
The fuck?!
You get starwars writers to write your star trek ship there?
I mean shit man even comparable starwars ships have a crew of at least 100.
This ship makes me think mobile agile and hostile.
I think it could be interesting to explore what a war between the Vulcans and andorians would have been like. Also if the United earth was a thing how they would factor into it