Man I’m slowly getting through all your vids , YOU ARE A LEGEND 👏👏 I have learned more about fishing gear than I was ever going to thanks to your work 👌👌👌
Thanks for the comparison Dennis and the improvements! The modern material drag washers are better! The differences of same model numbers are also in Penn catalogues; I'm glad I have few old Penn catalogues!
Thanks Mark. The Penn Senator was one of the first models introduced by Penn Reels. It dates all the way back to the 1930s. It has definitely stood the test of time with an enduring design and a lot of fans. Stay tuned for more - Dennis
Hey I got my reel fixed..I put another sccentric spring from a 209 level wind, one of those Chinese Penn. It fit perfectly,and the spring dog fit also, thanks for everything.
Great Video's Dennis! I'm interested in knowing more about the Black Sided Penn 113 4/0. Lots of people use them here in FL to pull up big grouper without damaging the gears. It seems that the lower retrieve ratio and smaller gears of the 113, 4/0 help's to lift the fish without damaging the gears. Sometimes speed in the retrieve is not needed. Thanks again for your great educational posts.
You are correct that the lower gear ratio helps lug in the big Grouper, but both the red and black versions are both very durable and I won't discount the high speed version or call it fragile. The down side of a high speed reel is that it can rip the hook out of the mouth because of speed. The black side was the original and has stood the test of time. The high speed retrieve was designed for trolling applications. Best wishes - Dennis
Been a fan of penn reels for years now especially the high speed 4/0 wide spool and 6/0 wide spool. Here in Hawaii we cast theses large reels all the way up to a 9/0 or comparable. With our 13 foot poles and reels spooled with 60 to a 100lb line just to target the giant trevally( Ulua ) from shore. Casting a heavy lead up to 12oz can be a workout but the adrenaline is the best. When that fish takes your bait and all you have is your reel and pole, and the sweat of your brow with the strength of your might 💪 just to land this fish. Some of them grow up to be over 100lbs or more. Every Ulua fisherman i known has started with one of these senators. Again thanks for the videos just wanted to chat. Tight lines Mahalo's Isaiah
Hello Dennis , How would I install the larger handle from a red 113 up to the black 113. My older 113 has a smaller shaft size. Thank you very much for your Penn Reels videos .
You can't do it. They are different bridge assemblies. If you want a larger handle, you need to find one from the Mariner, Jigmaster or Long Beach series or get an aftermarket handle upgrade. Dennis
Good morning Dennis, thank you very much for the reply. I will look into that. Thank you again for all the Penn Reels videos. I still have some vintage reels from the 70s and 80s that work great . Your videos are very educational for rebuilding.. Happy New Year take care.
Ray - there is no difference on the 209 models. The red sided ones were definitely made in the USA. You have to check the black sided ones. If it doesn't say made in the USA, it wasn't - Thanks for asking - Dennis
Both reels...are made in U.S... They hava the same handle..but the black one has small foot.....it fits on lite fishing rods.....thanks....hava nice day....
Hey Dennis would you happen to know when the Black sided Penn was made I have one in pretty good shape and was going to do a drag update but the drag kit I got from The Bay of Evil is obviously for the red sided Penn. And also do you know what drag kit would fit.
The black sided Senator was one of the first models that Penn introduced. The originals and goes all the way back to the 1930's. If you want to get the right parts , contact Mysticparts.com. They are great to work with. If you have the thick drag washers, you will need to upgrade them to the newer HT100 ones. The guys at Mystic Parts can walk you through the conversion and get you the right ones. Sometimes it's worth paying a few dollars more for the help and confidence that you are getting the right stuff. Thanks for asking - Dennis
To answer your question why Senators are called 3/0 or 9/0 etc: Old linen thread line used to be used back in the day, and the first number refers to the number of strands of linen thread that are woven into the line...4 strands, 6 strands, 24 thread and so on with each "thread" breaking at approximately 3 lbs. The /0 designation is because all the old school game trolling reels (Hardy, Vom Hofe, Ocean City and Penn Senator) were all sized according to the /O system - O means Ocean Reel. Does that answer what you wanted to know?
Thanks Dave. There seems to be a lot of conjecture on this and I even contacted Penn Reels and they did not have the definitive answer. I have heard the /0 stood for ocean even through it is numeric. I have not heard the linen line strand count one. One fellow told me the 3,4,6, etc in front of the /0 was in indicator in 100 yard increments on the capacity of the spool. So thank you for adding this. - Dennis
@@2ndChanceTackle No worries. If you think about it: the 3/0, 4/0 system can't be for increments of capacity on the spool, as that would mean the same diameter line would have to be the measure to get a standard (say 20lb), but there's no way you would use the same diameter line on a 12/0 as a 3/0 & so on...if you catch my drift? it would make no sense. With that logic- a 3/0 takes a "3" of 20lb and a 12/0 takes "12" of 20lb line...no way that would be the measure, as you would never spool on, or Penn sell a reel to have spooled on, 20lb line on a 12/0 reel.
@@2ndChanceTackle but if I was designing reels and needed a system to size them by, I would do it by the diameter of the spool ir maybe the side plate. Just a rough indication of size is needed, so you wouldn't need to include the spool width or capacity in the sizing system. Before I researched this, I just thought it was some weird American Imperial sizing kind of measuring, for the size of the spool diameter, but what would it be? 12inches for a 12/0 and 4inches for a 4/0 maybe? would that work?....be good to find an old buyers guide to game reels from the 1930's or similar to clear up the sizing system "debate". Cheers, David..from NZ or "the Angler's Eldorado" as Zane Grey put it ...
I do get your drift - just passing along what I have heard. I don't know the answer. I am trying to find some catalogue information or other source beyond just what we have heard. Thank you - Dennis
Today I bought 2 Penn battle 2 5000 and 3 Abu Garcia black max. Do you recommend I do anything to them before use? Thank you. You're videos are awesome.
The reels that are new and in the box are ready to go. You do not need to do anything. I find most manufacturers overlube the reels prior to shipment so there never seems to be a problem with evaporation or drying while they are in storage or waiting to be sold. If you find they are a little tight after use, a drop of oil on the main shaft would help - Thanks for asking - Dennis
I recently just picked up the same type of the red one at a flea market... you said, it would need about 7 of the modern drag washers? would there need to be extra metal washers between each one? Also would you or anyone in the comments happen to have a link to the HT100 ones or carbontex drag washers to fit the red senator 4/0?
Yes - the upgrade requires more washers. Contact the folks at mystic parts.com and they will get you the correct replacement set. This company is an authorized Penn Parts regional distributor. Thanks for watching - Dennis
No - The side plates are different and so are the gears. The black sided 4/0 is basically the Long Beach 66 with additional chrome trim rings. The red side plate reel has a different set up including ball bearings and larger gears. The parts are not interchangeable - Dennis
What is the diameter of the side plates on a 1/0 senator? Smaller than a 2/0 or 3/0? I would like a "small" reel for 20-30 lb. catfish. I know the 4/0 is way too big for my needs. Thanks.
the 4/0 is for gear size witch makes capable of heavier line the same with the otheres in the line 3/0, 6/0, 9/0 the higher end reel use the same bigger gears in smaller reels in the age of useing braids
Yes they do. Braid has changed everything from smaller formats to larger capacities nd the bigger gears make for a higher retrieve rate. - Thanks for the note - Dennis
2nd Chance Tackle ok thank you for the reply. This is the first reel I have attempted and it’s the black side one. The problem with my reels turns out to be the problems you identify. Looks like normal grease was in it and some kinda oil.
2nd Chance Tackle apologies , it wasn’t a question, I just noticed that the current slammer 3 spin reel ( red model )is similar to the old senator red side plates, being that they used red to symbolise the high speed .thanks
They are available for certain models. You don't mention which 4/0 you have. Myticparts.com carries the gear sets. Best to check with them to make sure they fit your reel. Here is the listing P316113H401 In Stock P316113H401 P316113H401▲ P316113H401 Custom Stainless Steel 4:1 High Speed Gear Set (Optional) $64.99 Dennis
Dennis your videos are great! Helped me a lot with rebuilding and maintaining my grandfather’s reels to continue the fishing traditions!!
I realize I am kind of off topic but does anyone know of a good website to watch new series online?
@Ryland Fox lately I have been using Flixzone. You can find it on google :)
@Guillermo Kylen yea, I have been using flixzone for months myself =)
@Guillermo Kylen thank you, signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there :D I really appreciate it !!
@Ryland Fox No problem :)
Man I’m slowly getting through all your vids , YOU ARE A LEGEND 👏👏 I have learned more about fishing gear than I was ever going to thanks to your work 👌👌👌
Thanks for the kind words Charlie. I'm glad you are enjoying them. There are a lot (400+) to get through!!! please stay tuned - Dennis
Thanks for the comparison Dennis and the improvements!
The modern material drag washers are better!
The differences of same model numbers are also in Penn catalogues; I'm glad I have few old Penn catalogues!
Love the senator videos Dennis great job
Thanks Mark. The Penn Senator was one of the first models introduced by Penn Reels. It dates all the way back to the 1930s. It has definitely stood the test of time with an enduring design and a lot of fans. Stay tuned for more - Dennis
Hey I got my reel fixed..I put another sccentric spring from a 209 level wind, one of those Chinese Penn.
It fit perfectly,and the spring dog fit also, thanks for everything.
You are welcome Rey. Time to that that thing fishing! Best wishes - Dennis
Great Video's Dennis! I'm interested in knowing more about the Black Sided Penn 113 4/0. Lots of people use them here in FL to pull up big grouper without damaging the gears. It seems that the lower retrieve ratio and smaller gears of the 113, 4/0 help's to lift the fish without damaging the gears. Sometimes speed in the retrieve is not needed. Thanks again for your great educational posts.
You are correct that the lower gear ratio helps lug in the big Grouper, but both the red and black versions are both very durable and I won't discount the high speed version or call it fragile. The down side of a high speed reel is that it can rip the hook out of the mouth because of speed. The black side was the original and has stood the test of time. The high speed retrieve was designed for trolling applications. Best wishes - Dennis
Been a fan of penn reels for years now especially the high speed 4/0 wide spool and 6/0 wide spool. Here in Hawaii we cast theses large reels all the way up to a 9/0 or comparable. With our 13 foot poles and reels spooled with 60 to a 100lb line just to target the giant trevally( Ulua ) from shore. Casting a heavy lead up to 12oz can be a workout but the adrenaline is the best. When that fish takes your bait and all you have is your reel and pole, and the sweat of your brow with the strength of your might 💪 just to land this fish. Some of them grow up to be over 100lbs or more. Every Ulua fisherman i known has started with one of these senators. Again thanks for the videos just wanted to chat. Tight lines
Mahalo's
Isaiah
Thank you - Now I want to go back to Hawaii and bring my rod and reel this time! - Bet wishes - Dennis
Love it Dennis
Great video, and very informative yet again.👍👍👍
Thanks John - Please stay tuned for more - Dennis
I prefer the black sided one, only because it's the one I've just bought!!...sorry Denis👍
great information Thanks
You are welcome. Thanks for watching - Dennis
Hello Dennis , How would I install the larger handle from a red 113 up to the black 113. My older 113 has a smaller shaft size. Thank you very much for your Penn Reels videos .
You can't do it. They are different bridge assemblies. If you want a larger handle, you need to find one from the Mariner, Jigmaster or Long Beach series or get an aftermarket handle upgrade. Dennis
Good morning Dennis, thank you very much for the reply. I will look into that. Thank you again for all the Penn Reels videos. I still have some vintage reels from the 70s and 80s that work great . Your videos are very educational for rebuilding.. Happy New Year take care.
I have 2 penn peer 209...one black,one red...are they differente..?or its just a newer version?..
All you do its interesting
Ray - there is no difference on the 209 models. The red sided ones were definitely made in the USA. You have to check the black sided ones. If it doesn't say made in the USA, it wasn't - Thanks for asking - Dennis
Both reels...are made in U.S...
They hava the same handle..but the black one has small foot.....it fits on lite fishing rods.....thanks....hava nice day....
Hey Dennis would you happen to know when the Black sided Penn was made I have one in pretty good shape and was going to do a drag update but the drag kit I got from The Bay of Evil is obviously for the red sided Penn. And also do you know what drag kit would fit.
The black sided Senator was one of the first models that Penn introduced. The originals and goes all the way back to the 1930's. If you want to get the right parts , contact Mysticparts.com. They are great to work with. If you have the thick drag washers, you will need to upgrade them to the newer HT100 ones. The guys at Mystic Parts can walk you through the conversion and get you the right ones. Sometimes it's worth paying a few dollars more for the help and confidence that you are getting the right stuff. Thanks for asking - Dennis
To answer your question why Senators are called 3/0 or 9/0 etc: Old linen thread line used to be used back in the day, and the first number refers to the number of strands of linen thread that are woven into the line...4 strands, 6 strands, 24 thread and so on with each "thread" breaking at approximately 3 lbs. The /0 designation is because all the old school game trolling reels (Hardy, Vom Hofe, Ocean City and Penn Senator) were all sized according to the /O system - O means Ocean Reel. Does that answer what you wanted to know?
Thanks Dave. There seems to be a lot of conjecture on this and I even contacted Penn Reels and they did not have the definitive answer. I have heard the /0 stood for ocean even through it is numeric. I have not heard the linen line strand count one. One fellow told me the 3,4,6, etc in front of the /0 was in indicator in 100 yard increments on the capacity of the spool. So thank you for adding this. - Dennis
@@2ndChanceTackle No worries. If you think about it: the 3/0, 4/0 system can't be for increments of capacity on the spool, as that would mean the same diameter line would have to be the measure to get a standard (say 20lb), but there's no way you would use the same diameter line on a 12/0 as a 3/0 & so on...if you catch my drift? it would make no sense. With that logic- a 3/0 takes a "3" of 20lb and a 12/0 takes "12" of 20lb line...no way that would be the measure, as you would never spool on, or Penn sell a reel to have spooled on, 20lb line on a 12/0 reel.
@@2ndChanceTackle but if I was designing reels and needed a system to size them by, I would do it by the diameter of the spool ir maybe the side plate. Just a rough indication of size is needed, so you wouldn't need to include the spool width or capacity in the sizing system. Before I researched this, I just thought it was some weird American Imperial sizing kind of measuring, for the size of the spool diameter, but what would it be? 12inches for a 12/0 and 4inches for a 4/0 maybe? would that work?....be good to find an old buyers guide to game reels from the 1930's or similar to clear up the sizing system "debate". Cheers, David..from NZ or "the Angler's Eldorado" as Zane Grey put it ...
I do get your drift - just passing along what I have heard. I don't know the answer. I am trying to find some catalogue information or other source beyond just what we have heard. Thank you - Dennis
Today I bought 2 Penn battle 2 5000 and 3 Abu Garcia black max. Do you recommend I do anything to them before use? Thank you. You're videos are awesome.
The reels that are new and in the box are ready to go. You do not need to do anything. I find most manufacturers overlube the reels prior to shipment so there never seems to be a problem with evaporation or drying while they are in storage or waiting to be sold. If you find they are a little tight after use, a drop of oil on the main shaft would help - Thanks for asking - Dennis
Cool info.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching - Dennis
I recently just picked up the same type of the red one at a flea market... you said, it would need about 7 of the modern drag washers? would there need to be extra metal washers between each one? Also would you or anyone in the comments happen to have a link to the HT100 ones or carbontex drag washers to fit the red senator 4/0?
Yes - the upgrade requires more washers. Contact the folks at mystic parts.com and they will get you the correct replacement set. This company is an authorized Penn Parts regional distributor. Thanks for watching - Dennis
my question is can you put the red side gears in the black side
No - The side plates are different and so are the gears. The black sided 4/0 is basically the Long Beach 66 with additional chrome trim rings. The red side plate reel has a different set up including ball bearings and larger gears. The parts are not interchangeable - Dennis
What is the diameter of the side plates on a 1/0 senator? Smaller than a 2/0 or 3/0? I would like a "small" reel for 20-30 lb. catfish. I know the 4/0 is way too big for my needs. Thanks.
I will have to check. I know the width of the spool is smaller
the 4/0 is for gear size witch makes capable of heavier line the same with the otheres in the line 3/0, 6/0, 9/0 the higher end reel use the same bigger gears in smaller reels in the age of useing braids
Yes they do. Braid has changed everything from smaller formats to larger capacities nd the bigger gears make for a higher retrieve rate. - Thanks for the note - Dennis
Hey do you know where I could find some of the red drag washers for the black senator
They should be available at Mysticparts.com. If you can't find the washers on the site, give them a call - Dennis
I opened up my low speed today and there was no bearings in it. Have you seen this before?
Yes - th black side plated 4/0 do not have bearings. The red high speed side plated reels are the ones with the bearings - Dennis
2nd Chance Tackle ok thank you for the reply. This is the first reel I have attempted and it’s the black side one. The problem with my reels turns out to be the problems you identify. Looks like normal grease was in it and some kinda oil.
@@po28der Glad to hear you are back on the right track. Best wishes - Dennis
The current penn slammer 3 the red one is high speed same as the red senator , wonder if penn did that on purpose 🤔
The slammer is a spinning reel. I don't understand your question. Can you ask it differently? Thank you - Dennis
2nd Chance Tackle apologies , it wasn’t a question, I just noticed that the current slammer 3 spin reel ( red model )is similar to the old senator red side plates, being that they used red to symbolise the high speed .thanks
When someone uses Klein tools but cheaps out on a gallon jug... You better believe they know what they're doing
I want.to.upgread my drag with all ss gears can you help
They are available for certain models. You don't mention which 4/0 you have. Myticparts.com carries the gear sets. Best to check with them to make sure they fit your reel. Here is the listing
P316113H401 In Stock P316113H401
P316113H401▲ P316113H401 Custom Stainless Steel 4:1 High Speed Gear Set (Optional) $64.99
Dennis
@@2ndChanceTackle I have the high speed 113h
THAT GLOVE SURE KEEP A LOT OF TOXIC WASTE OFF YOUR HAND ON THAT REEL.
You never know what you will find inside - A glove is always a good idea. Thanks for watching - Dennis
Cancer isn't fun