Right?! I don't think about playin' D&D a lot these days, but this made me want to pitch the rework to my regular D&D group. I think they'll shoot it down, it's too powerful haha
I absolutely love this. It does burst damage and damage reduction in a way that 5e wanted for the barbarian, but yours is so much better in execution, both mechanically and flavor-wise! I hope you do something like this with other classes, too. Ranger has had some changes in the 2024 rules that are generally disliked, so I'd be curious as to what you'd come up with.
I really appreciate your kind words! There are innumerable UA-camrs out there talkin' about ttrpgs, so it means a lot that you stopped by! Y'know, if I were to rework any other class, it would be the Ranger. I'm so, SO disappointed in the 2024 D&D Ranger! I'll definitely consider it! 🤠
I definitely want to try this out. I think instead of 1d6 rage at the start of combat, I would have them gain rage if they either make or are hit by the first attack in combat.
That'd be a fun alternative! Though that definitely puts the control out of their hands, to a degree. If they roll poorly on initiative, they're kinda out of luck, right?
@TalesFromElsewhereGames without testing it out I think they'd be alright at lower levels, when their high hit points and access to martial weapons make barbarians relatively strong even without rage. Then I would probably introduce ways to gain rage faster as you level, like add the "roll your rage die and gain the result" ability to War Cry.
@@kingcalamity6276 Absolutely! Something I was also concerned about, as you say, is if the Barbarian has enough ways to gain Rage in the mid-tiers of play. Maybe adding some once-per-short-rest feature that grants rage. I like the idea of maybe changing Warcry to grant Rage, rather than cost Rage. Then it could double as a Rage generator and a way to buff your allies. Maybe once per Short Rest or somethin'.
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames I think warcry (especially if it generates rather than costing rage) would be better if the buff was less powerful, but lasted for longer (like 3 rounds or so), and no limit on uses. Then it would become something you could reliably do at the start of combat, but it wouldn't be spammed because there probably wouldn't be much benefit to it. Being able to warcry before (or as you are) charging into battle also fits my thematic idea of a warcry, too.
If your "barbarian caster" is limited to a small list of spells that make sense for it, it might work out fine. Multiclassing could be an issue unless you make it a form of pact casting similar to the warlock. Maybe the barbarian's rage casting comes from a pact with the grove resulting in the spell only being those available to the land druid's extra spells plus a list of spells specifically for melee attacks. I don't know, just thoughts that popped into my head while listening.
Oh that's a good point - would need to build the limitations into the Grovekeeper that they can only use their conversion features on DRUID spells or somethin'.
Awesome production - really good stuff. Also, a great source of information! I’m always on the lookout for channels like yours (also for inspiration on the production side)
My favorite Barbarian subclass is the Ancestral Guardian one (BIG TANK VIBES & I loved using a halfling to create one that ignored STR & Reckless Attack) & did well with ranged attacks.
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames I ran dark sun exclusively in 2e once it was released. I've never been happy with the attempts after 2e though. It is disappointing & I've tried, but without the 2e rules it just didn't come across different enough for players to care that much.
Woo-hoo, he did it! Thanks a lot, Sheriff Pete! As for us play testing it: In my TTRPG group (heavily homebrewed 5e), we've been looking for good reworks of the RAGE mechanic and this looks promising. Me and my group will take a look at it. (On top of me being a player and part-time GM, I'm also the one who homebrewed most of our classes, subclasses, etc. I've also got a player/fellow player who absolutely excels at testing, finding odd min/maxing builds, and all-around breaking my work. If there's any balancing or other issues to be found, he'd be the one to locate them). (Came here from Discord, BTW)
Pretty cool design! No idea if I could ever test it, but as a fellow TTRPG designer, I really like your take on Rage an active mechanic. My main change on your design is that I would make the Rage "maneuvers" as an expanded list for the player to choose, similar to the Eldritch Invocations from the Warlock. I feel like 5E makes the player do very few choices when playing a martial class (with few exceptions, like the Battle Master Fighter).
@@levimote Thanks friend! 🤠 Using 2x Prof would be a clean alternative. Keeps the scaling in line with normal power progression a bit better. But! It makes it less of a tactical choice between maintaining high Rage for the DR versus expending it for bonuses. I think both approaches would be worth playtesting!
Sounds good, appreciate it friend! Would love to hear some first-hand accounts of how it plays. I know it'll need some refining, but I'm hoping the playstyle feels good! 🤠
Yours is such a simple and elegant approach, but it's so obviously what the Barbarian always should have been. How could we have not seen it? Incredible.
I really appreciate your kind words! I know my design is a lot more complex than the existing Barbarian, and some folks like its simplicity, but I really enjoy having interesting tactical decisions when I play TTRPGs! 🤠
Hey, that means a lot to hear! And I feel you - there's a glut of D&D 5e UA-camrs out there, and I'm not lookin' to make that what my channel is about. It's sometimes fun to dip my toes back into that space, though! 🤠
A spell casting Barbarian subclass? Very curious to see how this ( and the rest of the class) plays out! Play testing is a funny thing. I always thought of it as “the designer wants me to contribute to the final design and come up with cool stuff to put into or change about it” when in actuality it’s more like “please let me know if the numbers are too big”. Regardless, if we get a chance to play this class we will definitely let you know!
Haha yeah! I just don't play enough D&D these days to be a good judge of balance, I think. Need folks with their heads in that space to put it through the ringer 🤠
I have no idea about balance, but these ideas are amazing! I've never really been interested in playing a barbarian-the one time I tried was at 14th level and I very bored, having so few options besides "Rage, attack, attack." Granted, it was 2014, so weapon masteries could shake things up a bit, but building and unleashing rage sounds much more interesting both narratively and mechanically. Love the idea of hurling objects as a weapon! It's something almost every barbarian I've seen try to do; definitely makes sense to mechanically support that fantasy.
I'm so glad you find it evocative!! Balance can always be refined later; but a boring class doesn't get more fun just by making it balanced, so I always prefer to start BIG and aim for fun, then reel it in through testing 🤠
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames Well said! It's a design philosophy I have trouble being brave enough to adapt when designing things myself, but I have a friend who designs that way and I can wholeheartedly say it seems very effective here. Hit the vibes. Make it fun. Balance is important but secondary. Thanks for the thoughts!
This is really good! I love the philosophy behind the new rage mechanic, giving the round-by-round choice, but I do think it's a bit strong. (I haven't playtested it, just thinking about shrugging off 6 points of damage at level 1, why would you ever spend your rage when you are invincible?). Maybe something like: "when you lose HP (not temp HP) from an attack/failed save, you gain a number of temp HP equal to your current rage." (I really hate dnd's terminology 😆) At a later level this ability could be enhanced it by allowing you to gain the temp HP before going unconscious. Basically, instead of reducing the damage by 6, you gain 6 temp HP. Since you can only have 1 "block" of temp HP per dnd rules, you're not just _always_ shrugging off a ton of damage. Eventually you'll run out.
Haha yeah, the damage reduction is definitely too strong at early levels if you're able to get your Rage pretty high. Having it Temp HP-based would probably help balance it out, yeah!
Regarding the possibly OP damage reduction - if it's supposed to represent the ability to shrug off minor hits specifically, wouldn't a more direct (and possibly more balanced at early levels) approach be to say something like "All incoming damage equal to or less than your current Rage is reduced to 0."? I haven't played much D&D, my main experience of it being through BG3, so I'm not sure if it'd maybe do too little at that point - maybe then it could be Rage + CON/STR modifier, whichever's higher?
Oh that's interesting, where rather than damage reduction it would simply negate smaller hits. I'm unsure if that'd solve the late game vs early game issue, but it's worth chewin' on! Thanks for your feedback! 🤠
The rage mechanic mini-game and the Ouroboros themed barb are great ideas. Although the name Grovekeeper, … well … sounds kinda lame for a barbarian. If Ouroboros or Jörmungandr are too close to certain mythologies for you, why not call it "Path of the Eternal Wyrm", "Path of the Devouring Serpent", … or something along that train of thought?
You know what, I totally agree. "Path of the Ouroboros" is immediately more impactful and interesting. I ended up going with somethin' kinda bland, I admit! 🤠
🥳🫂👍🏿 Very cool - been fooling around with rage mechanics the past few months and really enjoying it - love seeing other people’s approach to the same problem
Great, the community needs more people like you, fomenting discussions and giving alternatives for the dnd way of playing
That means so much to hear, my friend! 🤠
Glad you've enjoyed the content!!
Such a cool design! Makes me want to play D&D again!
Right?! I don't think about playin' D&D a lot these days, but this made me want to pitch the rework to my regular D&D group. I think they'll shoot it down, it's too powerful haha
I'm loving this new Barbarian. It definitely adds tactical turn-by-turn choices, and doubles down on the barbarian flavour.
Thankee, friend! 🤠
Amazing stuff as always :) Love the rework as to how Rage is something more interactive and isnt just a set and forget ability
Cheers, my friend! 🤠
I absolutely love this. It does burst damage and damage reduction in a way that 5e wanted for the barbarian, but yours is so much better in execution, both mechanically and flavor-wise!
I hope you do something like this with other classes, too. Ranger has had some changes in the 2024 rules that are generally disliked, so I'd be curious as to what you'd come up with.
I really appreciate your kind words! There are innumerable UA-camrs out there talkin' about ttrpgs, so it means a lot that you stopped by!
Y'know, if I were to rework any other class, it would be the Ranger. I'm so, SO disappointed in the 2024 D&D Ranger! I'll definitely consider it! 🤠
I definitely want to try this out. I think instead of 1d6 rage at the start of combat, I would have them gain rage if they either make or are hit by the first attack in combat.
That'd be a fun alternative! Though that definitely puts the control out of their hands, to a degree. If they roll poorly on initiative, they're kinda out of luck, right?
@TalesFromElsewhereGames without testing it out I think they'd be alright at lower levels, when their high hit points and access to martial weapons make barbarians relatively strong even without rage. Then I would probably introduce ways to gain rage faster as you level, like add the "roll your rage die and gain the result" ability to War Cry.
@@kingcalamity6276 Absolutely! Something I was also concerned about, as you say, is if the Barbarian has enough ways to gain Rage in the mid-tiers of play. Maybe adding some once-per-short-rest feature that grants rage.
I like the idea of maybe changing Warcry to grant Rage, rather than cost Rage. Then it could double as a Rage generator and a way to buff your allies. Maybe once per Short Rest or somethin'.
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames I think warcry (especially if it generates rather than costing rage) would be better if the buff was less powerful, but lasted for longer (like 3 rounds or so), and no limit on uses. Then it would become something you could reliably do at the start of combat, but it wouldn't be spammed because there probably wouldn't be much benefit to it. Being able to warcry before (or as you are) charging into battle also fits my thematic idea of a warcry, too.
@@matthewparker9276 I dig it, I dig it 🤠
If your "barbarian caster" is limited to a small list of spells that make sense for it, it might work out fine. Multiclassing could be an issue unless you make it a form of pact casting similar to the warlock. Maybe the barbarian's rage casting comes from a pact with the grove resulting in the spell only being those available to the land druid's extra spells plus a list of spells specifically for melee attacks. I don't know, just thoughts that popped into my head while listening.
Oh that's a good point - would need to build the limitations into the Grovekeeper that they can only use their conversion features on DRUID spells or somethin'.
Awesome production - really good stuff. Also, a great source of information! I’m always on the lookout for channels like yours (also for inspiration on the production side)
Awesome, thank you my friend! 🤠
My favorite Barbarian subclass is the Ancestral Guardian one (BIG TANK VIBES & I loved using a halfling to create one that ignored STR & Reckless Attack) & did well with ranged attacks.
Ancestral Guardian is actually my favorite, as well! I'm playing one in a D&D 5.5 Dark Sun campaign right now! 🤠
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames I ran dark sun exclusively in 2e once it was released. I've never been happy with the attempts after 2e though. It is disappointing & I've tried, but without the 2e rules it just didn't come across different enough for players to care that much.
@@BLynn Yeah, the subsequent D&D editions just didn't quite cohere with the Dark Sun setting. Requires a lot of houseruling to make work!
Woo-hoo, he did it! Thanks a lot, Sheriff Pete!
As for us play testing it: In my TTRPG group (heavily homebrewed 5e), we've been looking for good reworks of the RAGE mechanic and this looks promising. Me and my group will take a look at it. (On top of me being a player and part-time GM, I'm also the one who homebrewed most of our classes, subclasses, etc. I've also got a player/fellow player who absolutely excels at testing, finding odd min/maxing builds, and all-around breaking my work. If there's any balancing or other issues to be found, he'd be the one to locate them).
(Came here from Discord, BTW)
Sounds good, buddy! If your group does end up trying some form of this Barbarian rework, I'd love to hear how it goes! 🤠
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames You got, Sheriff 🤠👍
Pretty cool design! No idea if I could ever test it, but as a fellow TTRPG designer, I really like your take on Rage an active mechanic.
My main change on your design is that I would make the Rage "maneuvers" as an expanded list for the player to choose, similar to the Eldritch Invocations from the Warlock. I feel like 5E makes the player do very few choices when playing a martial class (with few exceptions, like the Battle Master Fighter).
That's a fun idea, I like it! Let the Barbarian really customize their playestyle, offering a suite of interesting options at the core class level. 🤠
This is great!!
I think I would test Rage DR equal to 2x Proficiency Bonus.
@@levimote Thanks friend! 🤠
Using 2x Prof would be a clean alternative. Keeps the scaling in line with normal power progression a bit better.
But! It makes it less of a tactical choice between maintaining high Rage for the DR versus expending it for bonuses.
I think both approaches would be worth playtesting!
I’m definitely gonna ask my friend if I can use your Barbarian rework. Really interesting ideas.
Sounds good, appreciate it friend! Would love to hear some first-hand accounts of how it plays. I know it'll need some refining, but I'm hoping the playstyle feels good! 🤠
Yours is such a simple and elegant approach, but it's so obviously what the Barbarian always should have been. How could we have not seen it? Incredible.
I really appreciate your kind words! I know my design is a lot more complex than the existing Barbarian, and some folks like its simplicity, but I really enjoy having interesting tactical decisions when I play TTRPGs! 🤠
Although I've very little interest 5E, I like your design approach!
Hey, that means a lot to hear! And I feel you - there's a glut of D&D 5e UA-camrs out there, and I'm not lookin' to make that what my channel is about. It's sometimes fun to dip my toes back into that space, though! 🤠
Hey! I was just wondering if this was done yet. Thanks!
Haha perfect timing then! 🤠
A spell casting Barbarian subclass? Very curious to see how this ( and the rest of the class) plays out!
Play testing is a funny thing. I always thought of it as “the designer wants me to contribute to the final design and come up with cool stuff to put into or change about it” when in actuality it’s more like “please let me know if the numbers are too big”. Regardless, if we get a chance to play this class we will definitely let you know!
Haha yeah! I just don't play enough D&D these days to be a good judge of balance, I think. Need folks with their heads in that space to put it through the ringer 🤠
very cool ideas peter!
@@DmDungeonMastery Thank you, my friend! 🤠
I have no idea about balance, but these ideas are amazing! I've never really been interested in playing a barbarian-the one time I tried was at 14th level and I very bored, having so few options besides "Rage, attack, attack." Granted, it was 2014, so weapon masteries could shake things up a bit, but building and unleashing rage sounds much more interesting both narratively and mechanically. Love the idea of hurling objects as a weapon! It's something almost every barbarian I've seen try to do; definitely makes sense to mechanically support that fantasy.
I'm so glad you find it evocative!! Balance can always be refined later; but a boring class doesn't get more fun just by making it balanced, so I always prefer to start BIG and aim for fun, then reel it in through testing 🤠
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames Well said! It's a design philosophy I have trouble being brave enough to adapt when designing things myself, but I have a friend who designs that way and I can wholeheartedly say it seems very effective here. Hit the vibes. Make it fun. Balance is important but secondary. Thanks for the thoughts!
@@CalebWillden Any time, any friend!
This is really good! I love the philosophy behind the new rage mechanic, giving the round-by-round choice, but I do think it's a bit strong. (I haven't playtested it, just thinking about shrugging off 6 points of damage at level 1, why would you ever spend your rage when you are invincible?). Maybe something like:
"when you lose HP (not temp HP) from an attack/failed save, you gain a number of temp HP equal to your current rage." (I really hate dnd's terminology 😆) At a later level this ability could be enhanced it by allowing you to gain the temp HP before going unconscious. Basically, instead of reducing the damage by 6, you gain 6 temp HP.
Since you can only have 1 "block" of temp HP per dnd rules, you're not just _always_ shrugging off a ton of damage. Eventually you'll run out.
Haha yeah, the damage reduction is definitely too strong at early levels if you're able to get your Rage pretty high. Having it Temp HP-based would probably help balance it out, yeah!
Regarding the possibly OP damage reduction - if it's supposed to represent the ability to shrug off minor hits specifically, wouldn't a more direct (and possibly more balanced at early levels) approach be to say something like "All incoming damage equal to or less than your current Rage is reduced to 0."? I haven't played much D&D, my main experience of it being through BG3, so I'm not sure if it'd maybe do too little at that point - maybe then it could be Rage + CON/STR modifier, whichever's higher?
Oh that's interesting, where rather than damage reduction it would simply negate smaller hits. I'm unsure if that'd solve the late game vs early game issue, but it's worth chewin' on!
Thanks for your feedback! 🤠
The rage mechanic mini-game and the Ouroboros themed barb are great ideas. Although the name Grovekeeper, … well … sounds kinda lame for a barbarian. If Ouroboros or Jörmungandr are too close to certain mythologies for you, why not call it "Path of the Eternal Wyrm", "Path of the Devouring Serpent", … or something along that train of thought?
You know what, I totally agree. "Path of the Ouroboros" is immediately more impactful and interesting. I ended up going with somethin' kinda bland, I admit! 🤠
🥳🫂👍🏿
Very cool - been fooling around with rage mechanics the past few months and really enjoying it - love seeing other people’s approach to the same problem
Heck yes, brother! 🤠
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames Nimble is about to be content complete - you and I should hang out to talk about rage mechanics
@@TwinSteel Yeah we should! I've been itching to also talk Nimbe in general! 🤠
@@TalesFromElsewhereGames sounds great 😊