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Xenk was hands down my favourite character in the movie. His whole vibe was great set against the chaotic energy of the rest of the party and a perfect example of why lawful good doesn't need to equal boring.
The best naming advice that I ever got and which the movie basically follows is: "start with a normal but uncommon real world name. Change one letter."
@@tonysladky8925, sometimes one letter doesn't quite get you there but you can usually figure it out from that point. Xank doesn't quite sound right, either.
For the original radio broadcasts of "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", Douglas Adams (& co) started off (quite deliberately) with names that were unbroadcastably rude - but then tweaked them until they were "just" broadcastable; hence "Slartibartfast" (as an example).
Excellent analysis! The thing the filmmakers really got about D&D (and I'd say this includes *every* version of the game) is having to pivot when things don't go your way. The picture with the portal falls face down; what do you do now? The wizard detects you when you're using Wild Shape to infiltrate the castle; what do you do now? I also 100% agree on the names in a lot of D&D products being hard to pronounce or unmemorable. And as much as I love Doric, I do wish they fleshed her out better. Great video, Mike!
This just reminds me how fun this film was. I like the comment on giving each character a want that ties into the story goals. If you don't already, it's far easier to mould your existing wants to align with the story than to stand still and insist your character wouldn't play along
I think the prison break is a scene where Edgin and Holga's players are the only ones who could make the first session since the campaign was planned kind of last minute. They knew who Simon was because his player was supposed to be there but had to cancel.
I love this movie. It's such a great representation of what goes on in our heads when we play D&D. You can almost see the players rolling dice behind the movie. In the scene where they all discuss the helmet my kid said "he failed his history check" the first time they watched it. So very true! It's a good movie and a great D&D/RPG movie.
2:08 - there was just a post recently on facebook about this. GM: "You received a letter to go to the mayor's house" Player: "I sell the letter and go gambling" GM: you literally agreed to this in session 0. and someone was arguing about the GM is required to play the game the way that obstructive player wanted, and that everyone else sucked if they couldn't deal with it, even if I said I wouldn't want to play with that person because like. Yeah I can't trust that they're going to go along with the plan that we made. And they called me a bad player for not "being able to deal with it"
That’s the problem with RPG advice. I stopped Reddit for lots of reasons but the rpg subreddits are so toxic. I assume Facebook is the same. People assume the best player and worst DM. In an ideal world both dm and player collaborate together for an awesome time. In practice though the DM is doing far majority of work to make the game awesome. Therefore the DM is granted more leeway to say what tables behaviors are unacceptable. In my view the player is acting in bad faith. The better approach would be to combine the character goal of gambling with the scenario hook, “I want money from this adventure to gamble at the Florin Casino. If I do well I might be invited to play the Grand Game tournament.” You just gave the DM seeds for future adventures.
The scene where Holga talks to her ex is great. I kinda wish you brought it up, she gets a lot of closure, and while sure. The audience gets a laugh out of the cameo (and the halflings look pretty goofy in the movie compared to BG3 or the Hobbit). But this scene is mostly played straight and i love it. I love how Edgin immediately starts singing a song with Holga instead of a one-liner afterwards. Great song
I actually really loved that, other than the visual comedy of the scene and the awkward "taking to your ex to try to get closure" humor, it's mostly played straight. Ed is there for his friend when she needs cheering up, no one-liner or undercutting the moment. *That* is what makes the movie truly enjoyable, it never undercuts the emotional moments
9:10 I know a player who would play exactly like this supposed guest player. The DM tells the guest that there will be moments when they are allowed to improvise. For example: “You reach a large bridge that crosses a flow of lava. (Player xy), you know the secret traps on the bridge and how to cross them. Tell the other players how to cross the bridge.” And then my friend comes up with the wildest or lamest solution. But as soon as one of the other regular players approaches the bridge, he has to roll the dice and something crazy can happen. Either the trap is triggered or a Laval ball jumps up. A fire elemental appears or an earthquake causes boulders to fall from the ceiling. P.S. I love Doric and hope there is a follow-up film including her. To me, she felt like that one veteran player who just wants to play a cool adventure without putting in a lot of effort in story telling and having skills that can be used to support the group, like, "I've got you homie!"
For what it's worth: Doric is a dialect that is/was spoken in northeast Scotland, so it's not a completely made-up word. I honestly thought this felt like a great example of what DnD plays like. The scene in the graveyard where Simon, Doric, and Holga are all telling Edgin what they know about Xenk felt like they all rolled History checks to see what they new, and the DM gave each of them a different bit of info based on their respective backstories. Also the planning phase that included the exchange "Isn't plan C the same as plan A?" "No, plan A has some stank on it." felt like the sort of things my PCs would say.
As someone that's played DnD for over 40 years, over all of the editions, I feel rather well-qualified to say, yes, this movie absolutely felt like DnD to me. The amount of shenanigans, fails, successes, ands everything in-between has happened so many times at different tables.
I really loved this movie, and watched it with both my dnd friends, and my parents who’s only experience with dnd is hearing about it from my sister and I. Both groups really loved it, which I think says a lot about the quality of the film! So glad to see you talking about it!
Well this works out, seeing as I just watched the D&D movie on a plane last week. It's fun imagining how these events would've played out at the table. DM: "Okay, that backstory dump got them teary-eyed. Make a Persuasion check with Advantage." Player: "Damn it, Nat 20." DM: "Why are you mad your pardon is going to be approved? Player: "Because of this. I grab Jarnathan and jump out the window."
The wonderful secret gift of making this video "late" is getting to be reminded of small things or jokes that I forgot. "Jarnathan" is absolutely perfect
"My character doesn't have any reason to go on this quest." Make up a reason, however convoluted for your character to go on the first adventure with the party. From then on out, if your character doesn't feel motivated to do an adventure on its own merits, you can just say "But I want to help out my companions who ARE motivated. I'm sure they'll help me with my goals in the future." Simple!
One time I told the other players [my character doesn't have a reason to go on the adventure right now, tell him X so he goes along]. As a player, it's your responsibility to get your character in the plot you all agreed to play!
A comment our DM made about the movie is that the combat at the end used a lot of turns and other elements such as doing something to breaking Sofina's concentration on a spell and each character taking a turn.
I went to go see this movie with my most of my dnd group and we found it so genuinely authentic to dnd. A lot of the times when the characters failed at doing a task you could feel that they got a nat one and the player in the meta of the narrative was unamused or frustrated. We could pick out the successes and failures and had a lot of fun doing so. I’m now even playing in a group who started playing dnd regularly though this movie and playing bg3. So its safe to say i think it does its job well but that might be cause i have a soft spot for it cause i’ve had such a fun experience and wasnt really critical at all.
The thing that singles Xenk out as a DMPC stererotype to me is when he takes on a whole fight all by himself and makes the other PCs just watch him. That strikes me as the DM wanting to show off how much more badass this character is then the PCs.
Xenk was a great guest PC as he's the perfect counterpoint to the main characters. He's a shining example of what the players could become if they stopped playing grab ass long enough to actually do something. He shows up with his old character from the DM's old game and some notes from the DM on what's going on here, and he plays his heart out for his one appearance, then just walks off at the end of the night.
12:28 I dunno if it was intentional on the part of the filmmakers, but Doric *is* a term out of architecture, so it could arguably fit in with Forge as "non-name words repurposed as names." But yes, no shame in fantasy name lists/generators. My go-to halfling name came from one: Bingo Smallburrows.
I love that movie. So many fun elements like the Aarakocra prison break, the wild shape sequence, the 5 question resurrection surfe and the portal heist. My favorite moment was Xenk trying so hard to smite but missing every single attack. I watched it with my family, they enjoyed it quite a lot and now they're on their way to find Wave Echo Cave.
I love the film's theme about failure too, which is something everyone should learn but us TTRPG players can really benefit from. When things don't go your way, what do you do next? You will always do something next or the game's over, and it might be more interesting than what you first intended.
I watched this movie before I ever started DnD, this movie was part of the reason why I got into it, once I learned Szass Tam and Themberchaud were real and part of DnD lore I was like "wow, that's pretty cool that stuff like that exists." That said, one of the critiques that someone had that doesn't take away from the movie itself but might annoy someone that's a specific about the particulars is that the Bard has no magic
I think the hardest part of a DMPC is that the DM is omnipotent about everything except how the players will react. It's even harder to not metagame when you already know what all the answers are, because it's just so tempting to act on that knowledge. That's why I agree that a DMPC, if ever employed, must function on a different paradigm than normal players, and personally would recommend being explicitly built in a support role. Play the healer when everyone in the party wants to play DPS. If a spellcaster, focus on buffs, debuffs, and battlefield manipulation rather than flashy damage spells. Even if the character is martial based, an emphasis on things like disarms and bull rushing (coming from a Pathfinder player at least) to weaken foes and reposition them. Funny enough, I feel like a DMPC can get away with a character who's a "technical pacifist" a lot more easily than another player at the table.
This film finally understood that every player is the focus of their game. This was a PC Party, no doubt about it. After all the OGL bollocks I was impressed how well this film came together and wonder what could have been.
@@Solstice261 I was referring to the 'Open Gaming Licence" debacle that happened at the end of 2022 to early 2023. Didn't want to stoke old coals as it's been talked to death, but Hasbro and WotC's actions probably had a consequence for this film launching shortly after it had resolved.
@@Solstice261 Sorry. I'm using too many acronyms. WotC refers to 'Wizards of the Coast', the company that owns the Intellectual Property (IP) of the game 'Dungeons & Dragons'. Wizards is owned, in turn, by the parent company of Hasbro (toy manufacturer). The 'suits' in charge wanted to increase the monetization of the brand and tried to crucify content creators on UA-cam. It did not go... well for them. The backlash on this film can also be due in part to the ill will created in the Table Top Role Playing Game (TTRPG) community. I hope this helps 😁
@@riculfriculfson7243 yeah I know I was saying I don't follow how wizards of the coast missmanage the license so I wasn't aware of the whole ordeal, it makes sense to use acronyms it's a bloody long name, thanks for explaining the whole ordeal, glad the TTRPG community won
Are you reading my mind Mike?!?!? I watched the D&D Movie 2 days ago because I saw it was leaving Netflix in 2025. My understanding was that most people who watched the movie thought of Xenk as more of a guest character and I thought that as well. Only on my second watch just 2 days ago did I connect the dots that he was actually a DMPC. You someone have just the right video I want to watch. Are you a wizard??
I lean more toward guest character who spent time with the DM to make sure he fulfilled what was needed to be done by his character. Either way I love that is what we talk about with him.
From the moment I saw this movie, it was very clearly a campaign of D&D put to film. This weekend my wife and I are going to be watching it with some friends who have never seen it before, one of them has played D&D since he was little and the game was new and the other's only experience with it is seeing him play. Its going to be fun to see how they like it.
2:33 I don't think asking a player to roll a new character if their current one doesn't want to go on the adventure is rude - or that a GM should even worry about it maybe being rude. The player is violating rule #1 of TTRPGs: "Your character must want to go on the adventure with the rest of the team". It is a team based game about adventures, and it is entirely reasonable to expect characters to be designed to accommodate that. If you want to play a broody lone wolf character who doesn't want to go on the adventure you can do that by yourself in your fanfic or whatever. So GMs, don't even think it might be rude to ask players to bring a character that is willing to go on the adventure. It's literally the bare minimum they need to do.
Xenk absolutely read to me as a guest player too. I really loved seeing that, because my current and longest running campaign has had multiple temporary allies like that.
what i love about this movie and make it feel very D&D to me is every time the characters make a plan and make mistakes or even every time something cool is happening i can actually imagine the cut hour long discussion and planing just for a bad roll to fuck everything up or a Nat 20 that make a "imposible situation" feel like a walk in the park, the perfect quote i find about why this movie is good representantion of what is to play D&D is that "people start a campaing wanting to be Lord of the Rings but almost always finish being Monty Pyton" in other worlds if your heroes arent a bunch of idiots that ocationally get their shit toguether to save the world thats not D&D🤣
Mike brought up how Matt Colville just made a video on how groups play very differently, then popped up a link to that video. For anyone who hasn't seen it, SEE IT. It is a FASCINATING video, absolutely a banger. Go hear about how the primordial formation of d&d was wild, and how many things have echoes of differing interpretations of the hobby today.
It's interesting that you've commonly come across the complaint that this didn't "feel like D&D." I think I've heard one or two people maybe say that, but it's been an extreme Fringe. Most of the people who said that I found upon pushing, didn't even actually see the movie, what they're saying is the vibe I got off of the preview didn't feel like D&D to me.". Interesting that you heard that critique a lot more than me, but I don't claim to be part of the broader D&D critiquing community, so I'm probably just not having my finger on the pulse as it were.... One thing I did want to throw out, is I think that the second of the old D&D movies, Wrath of the Dragon God, gets a massively unfair shake. It's clearly a product of its time, particularly in the special effects department, but I would actually argue that it also has the vibe of D&D. If anything, I would say honor amongst thieves catches the vibe of the modern D&D table perfectly, and wrath of the Dragon God catches the vibe of a slightly older mindset perfectly; and both actually incorporate recognizable mechanics and game styles into them from their respective popular editions at the time. Basically both honor among thieves and wrath of the Dragon God had a cast of characters that while I was watching the movie I was constantly thinking "yep, I've totally played with this guy at my table." If you haven't watched wrath of the Dragon God, I would recommend it. You don't actually have to watch the preceding movie, which I wouldn't recommend anyway.
Just a thought: I think part of the reason that Doric works as a name while sounding fantasy inspired is because it's Greek. As in Doric columns, or the Doric (More commonly Dorian) mode in music (Scarborough Fair is written in this mode). Historic names - even if not specifically for people - are a gold mine of inspiration.
Xenk has always felt like a guest character like from an old campaign that was about Thay and was like back in town for a couple weeks and the DM was like Hey you wanna play your old character again?
Back in the 90s, we had a DM that did that a lot. We had played a previous campaign to high level in a custom setting, then retired the characters in order to start new characters in that same setting....and our DM was routinely bringing back our old characters as NPC's. It was so cool.
I loved this movie so much! My absolute favorite randomly generated fantasy name I ever found: Wiweth. Say it out loud. I couldn't do it. I could not use the name and create a serious character. But I love it so much!
Honestly I was genuinely surprised to hear that people say this doesn't feel like D&D to them. To me this is the most D&D feeling thing I've ever seen besides actual D&D
Side note to the movie: Doric had her own book that gave her much more story and attention which didnt help the people who only watched the movie, but i do recommend reading it, i enjoyed it greatly. Otherwise, yeah, the movie felt a lot like D&D to me and i could see a lot of things as if they were dice rolls throughout the movie as well as just really nice shows of appreciation to the source material.
If you are having trouble wrapping your head around the idea of PCs acting as mercenaries, I would suggest reading Mercedes Lackey's "By the Sword" (Kerowyn's Tale), which gives a pretty insightful justification for mercenaries. You might also want to read the "Vows & Honor" trilogy before that, as it's the prequel, but "By the Sword" also stands on its own, and both tie in to the rest of the mainline of Lackey's "Valdemar" books.
I absolutely loved the movie (although at first I wasn't a fan due to a horrible theater-going experience... long story) and felt like it represented the type of campaign I was and still am running, where there are serious character moments, but also a Monty Python-esque sense of humor running through it. I still call out "Oh, Jarnathan!" at times when something out of the ordinary occurs.
"Doric" is likely from the Dorians of ancient Greece - who *may* have originated in more wooded/upland areas, and *may* be derived from an earlier word for wood - and thus is appropriate for a druid. Later their name becomes associated with the musical "Dorian mode" and the "Dorian order" of architecture.
Honestly the movie was very much fun, thanks for reminding me of it, really managed to grab the essence of d&d in a way a lot of adaptations (looking at you secret levels) blunder completely, it really shows different types of characters, how they can work despite their personalities, and an inspirational rendition of an annoying lawful good paladin DMPC being actually great and funny
I think the "dungeons and dragons" label in the title ended up doing this movie a disservice. Yes, its a great DnD movie, with lots of lil references to the game. But also, it's just a good movie in general. It's funny, well paced, has a good storyline, with strong individual motivations driving each character. It's great! But I think a lot of people were poisoned because the last dnd movie was *terrible*.
5:38 i once was a quest for one session as a mid level wizard (12) who didn’t want to kill anyone so I picked buff and debuff spells, I did this because this dm doesn’t do a whole Lotta combat and I knew I didn’t want to steal any kills from the players, so that’s a lesson for us quest players. Learn the vibe of the table and Mike did touch on this. If the group doesn’t like ass holes and there all good people then unless you have a plan for this don’t be the only ass hole. If everyone likes being the smart talkers than don’t playa genius that steals there thunder. As quest we help the players but the story is not about us.
Maybe I'm the only one who see it this way, but wasn't Xenk casually Laying On Hands when he interacted with that dragonborn beggar? I thought that him touching the dragonborn was a subtle nod to the question of "shouldn't clerics and paladins out in society be using up all their healing every day, in order to do the most good"
the biggest disappointment i had with this movie is still inconsequential. I just really dislike the Forgotten Realms setting. I really, really hate it. but this was an incredible movie.
I'm not very fond of it either but it's appropriate for a mass appeal movie, generic fantasy with about all the cliches and a lot of variety, not as interesting as the others but easier to grasp for people who have no clue about the lore
Mike, how fast are your home sessions? I can't imagine my group getting through an Honor Among Thieves campaign in that few sessions. We spent two years completing Wild Beyond the Witchlight, but that was in part because our DM had a VERY relaxed pace.
The D&D movie passes muster, which means that it manages to be an entertaining movie that does no disservice to the IP or the genre, and doesn't embarrass anyone involved. It's not the D&D movie I would have made, but I can live with that. If you want to see more movies that could serve as inspiration for your D&D campaign, I would happily recommend any of these instead: 10. The Golden Voyage of Sinbad (1973) -- You can definitely see the influence that this movie (and its predecessor) had on the original D&D game! 9. The Mummy (1999) - A campy pulp adventure with an asymmetrical party of adventurers that captures the dynamic of D&D better than that awful D&D movie released around the same time. 8. Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - This movie and the sequel/prequel are great old-fashioned distillations of pulp action adventure. 7. Conan the Barbarian (1982) - Obviously. 6. Brotherhood of the Wolf (2001) - Hell, yes! Action, adventure, intrigue, monsters, and sex! 5. Flesh + Blood (1985) -- An underrated medieval adventure movie about a ruthless band of landsknecht mercenaries who seek revenge against the lord who screwed them over. This is a grounded, if unglamorous, depiction of what adventuring parties would have to be like. 4. The Wild Bunch (1969) -- An ugly and nihilistic, but compelling western about a gang of aging outlaws whose era has long passed. Again, it provides a picture of what kind of fate might actually await adventurers who have no vision. 3. The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad (1958) -- Magic, monsters, action, exotic locales! This movie has everything you could possibly want in a Fantasy adventure! 2. Big Trouble in Little China (1986) -- Possibly the best example of Urban Fantasy ever put to film. Would that everyone gaming sessions could be this fun! 1. The Seven Samurai (1954) -- An absolute classic that everyone should see. More than anything else, this film is about what causes are worth fighting and dying for. How often does a DM get to instill these kinds of thoughts into the players? ^ You've probably covered some of these already, but any of them would be worth detailing in an entire video.
I really loved the movie and it does feel like quite a few games I've been in. Especially when the "It's THESE idiots who have to save the day? Wait. Those idiots are US!" kicks in.
In my opinion it does a dreadful job, but each to its own, to me it just seemed like a very generic story and characters (admittedly time constraints) just with the setting of d&d so gold dragons and the queen, it's a campaign you can do sure but it didn't feel like a campaign with actual player characters but rather a video game cutscene
2:15 Not going on the quest. No, it been a problem with some the groups I played with even back in 1E. I even created a short story due to one so called player not wanting to go on the quest. But even back then STORY vs IT’S A GAME was a conflict. It was a great D&D movie but it was not a great fantasy movie. There was not enough flavor, or meat for me to really care about characters or world, if I wasn’t into the game.
I loved the movie I even used it to explain DnD to my Grandma. The only real problem with the movie is that Hasbro spent to much money on it. So it need to make near a billion dollars to turn a profit.
Honestly, the other D&D films weren't terrible... They just weren't good. Yes there is a difference. I can turn my brain off and enjoy the first film again. But this movie works even when I keep my brain functioning properly.
IMO, it was an alright generic fantasy movie. However, I have to agree with those people who say it didn't feel like D&D. As it only had a very thin veneer of D&D, tacked onto a very conventual story line. They had a whole established universe to work with, but instead they went with new characters that don't really mean anything, to anyone.
I honestly don't know if it's a good movie overall, but watching it felt like watching my friends playing because I saw them playing on Discord and asked to connect because I'm curious. And it was what I went in for
It didn't have Jeremy Irons devouring the scenery, so zero stars. In all fairness the movie was good, but not great. For me the humour was mostly average and it felt like the actors were having to do a lot of their own directing, so the tempo of a lot of scenes was lacking. The curse of american-style improv comedy strikes again I feel.
Good for you, I on the other hand will keep pirating books and watching movies I like because WotC doesn't give a damn if people watch what is essentially an advertisement, they care that you buy the new books, which I don't need to do to keep playing, you ain't better than others for saying you are boycotting
What movie feels the most like your D&D game?
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I don’t know how I can watch this video
Without Jarnathan being here
JARNATHAN!
Xenk was hands down my favourite character in the movie. His whole vibe was great set against the chaotic energy of the rest of the party and a perfect example of why lawful good doesn't need to equal boring.
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The best naming advice that I ever got and which the movie basically follows is: "start with a normal but uncommon real world name. Change one letter."
One sound. "Jonathan" to "Jarnathan" is two letters after all.
@@tonysladky8925, sometimes one letter doesn't quite get you there but you can usually figure it out from that point. Xank doesn't quite sound right, either.
Similarly, take a normal name, figure out how to misspell it, then approach like you've never heard before. How you end up with names like Dharikk
For the original radio broadcasts of "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", Douglas Adams (& co) started off (quite deliberately) with names that were unbroadcastably rude - but then tweaked them until they were "just" broadcastable; hence "Slartibartfast" (as an example).
Doric is a name from Guild Wars
Excellent analysis! The thing the filmmakers really got about D&D (and I'd say this includes *every* version of the game) is having to pivot when things don't go your way. The picture with the portal falls face down; what do you do now? The wizard detects you when you're using Wild Shape to infiltrate the castle; what do you do now?
I also 100% agree on the names in a lot of D&D products being hard to pronounce or unmemorable. And as much as I love Doric, I do wish they fleshed her out better.
Great video, Mike!
You rolled a 1 for the 3rd consecutive turn. You continue to fail cutting the ropes.
This just reminds me how fun this film was. I like the comment on giving each character a want that ties into the story goals. If you don't already, it's far easier to mould your existing wants to align with the story than to stand still and insist your character wouldn't play along
I think the prison break is a scene where Edgin and Holga's players are the only ones who could make the first session since the campaign was planned kind of last minute. They knew who Simon was because his player was supposed to be there but had to cancel.
I love this movie. It's such a great representation of what goes on in our heads when we play D&D. You can almost see the players rolling dice behind the movie. In the scene where they all discuss the helmet my kid said "he failed his history check" the first time they watched it. So very true! It's a good movie and a great D&D/RPG movie.
2:08 - there was just a post recently on facebook about this. GM: "You received a letter to go to the mayor's house" Player: "I sell the letter and go gambling" GM: you literally agreed to this in session 0. and someone was arguing about the GM is required to play the game the way that obstructive player wanted, and that everyone else sucked if they couldn't deal with it, even if I said I wouldn't want to play with that person because like. Yeah I can't trust that they're going to go along with the plan that we made. And they called me a bad player for not "being able to deal with it"
That’s the problem with RPG advice.
I stopped Reddit for lots of reasons but the rpg subreddits are so toxic. I assume Facebook is the same.
People assume the best player and worst DM. In an ideal world both dm and player collaborate together for an awesome time. In practice though the DM is doing far majority of work to make the game awesome. Therefore the DM is granted more leeway to say what tables behaviors are unacceptable.
In my view the player is acting in bad faith. The better approach would be to combine the character goal of gambling with the scenario hook, “I want money from this adventure to gamble at the Florin Casino. If I do well I might be invited to play the Grand Game tournament.” You just gave the DM seeds for future adventures.
The fact that the movie begins as a lighthearted adventure story that evolved into a deep story about family and sacrifice.
THAT is dnd.
The scene where Holga talks to her ex is great. I kinda wish you brought it up, she gets a lot of closure, and while sure. The audience gets a laugh out of the cameo (and the halflings look pretty goofy in the movie compared to BG3 or the Hobbit). But this scene is mostly played straight and i love it. I love how Edgin immediately starts singing a song with Holga instead of a one-liner afterwards. Great song
I actually really loved that, other than the visual comedy of the scene and the awkward "taking to your ex to try to get closure" humor, it's mostly played straight. Ed is there for his friend when she needs cheering up, no one-liner or undercutting the moment. *That* is what makes the movie truly enjoyable, it never undercuts the emotional moments
9:10 I know a player who would play exactly like this supposed guest player. The DM tells the guest that there will be moments when they are allowed to improvise. For example: “You reach a large bridge that crosses a flow of lava. (Player xy), you know the secret traps on the bridge and how to cross them. Tell the other players how to cross the bridge.” And then my friend comes up with the wildest or lamest solution. But as soon as one of the other regular players approaches the bridge, he has to roll the dice and something crazy can happen. Either the trap is triggered or a Laval ball jumps up. A fire elemental appears or an earthquake causes boulders to fall from the ceiling. P.S. I love Doric and hope there is a follow-up film including her. To me, she felt like that one veteran player who just wants to play a cool adventure without putting in a lot of effort in story telling and having skills that can be used to support the group, like, "I've got you homie!"
For what it's worth: Doric is a dialect that is/was spoken in northeast Scotland, so it's not a completely made-up word.
I honestly thought this felt like a great example of what DnD plays like. The scene in the graveyard where Simon, Doric, and Holga are all telling Edgin what they know about Xenk felt like they all rolled History checks to see what they new, and the DM gave each of them a different bit of info based on their respective backstories. Also the planning phase that included the exchange "Isn't plan C the same as plan A?" "No, plan A has some stank on it." felt like the sort of things my PCs would say.
Doric also the name of the dialect of Greek spoken by the Dorians. And a style of architecture that developed in the region ("Doric columns" etc).
As someone that's played DnD for over 40 years, over all of the editions, I feel rather well-qualified to say, yes, this movie absolutely felt like DnD to me. The amount of shenanigans, fails, successes, ands everything in-between has happened so many times at different tables.
'Doric' is a type of Greek column so, for me at least, it has ancient mythical connotations.
I had been thinking it was also one of the musical scale "modes" but turns out I was thinking of Dorian, which is a whole other character
Was going to comment the same thing.
I really loved this movie, and watched it with both my dnd friends, and my parents who’s only experience with dnd is hearing about it from my sister and I. Both groups really loved it, which I think says a lot about the quality of the film! So glad to see you talking about it!
Well this works out, seeing as I just watched the D&D movie on a plane last week. It's fun imagining how these events would've played out at the table.
DM: "Okay, that backstory dump got them teary-eyed. Make a Persuasion check with Advantage."
Player: "Damn it, Nat 20."
DM: "Why are you mad your pardon is going to be approved?
Player: "Because of this. I grab Jarnathan and jump out the window."
The wonderful secret gift of making this video "late" is getting to be reminded of small things or jokes that I forgot. "Jarnathan" is absolutely perfect
"My character doesn't have any reason to go on this quest."
Make up a reason, however convoluted for your character to go on the first adventure with the party.
From then on out, if your character doesn't feel motivated to do an adventure on its own merits, you can just say "But I want to help out my companions who ARE motivated. I'm sure they'll help me with my goals in the future."
Simple!
One time I told the other players [my character doesn't have a reason to go on the adventure right now, tell him X so he goes along]. As a player, it's your responsibility to get your character in the plot you all agreed to play!
My whole group said "this movie is just like our game, typical D&D". We loved the movie.
A comment our DM made about the movie is that the combat at the end used a lot of turns and other elements such as doing something to breaking Sofina's concentration on a spell and each character taking a turn.
"Just one video..."
They're going to coordinate to tie it up again.
I went to go see this movie with my most of my dnd group and we found it so genuinely authentic to dnd. A lot of the times when the characters failed at doing a task you could feel that they got a nat one and the player in the meta of the narrative was unamused or frustrated. We could pick out the successes and failures and had a lot of fun doing so. I’m now even playing in a group who started playing dnd regularly though this movie and playing bg3.
So its safe to say i think it does its job well but that might be cause i have a soft spot for it cause i’ve had such a fun experience and wasnt really critical at all.
The thing that singles Xenk out as a DMPC stererotype to me is when he takes on a whole fight all by himself and makes the other PCs just watch him. That strikes me as the DM wanting to show off how much more badass this character is then the PCs.
100% spot on Doric got robbed. Love the movie to bits (it's one of my faves past 5 years) but yeah Doric got scraps lol--would watch Doric spinoff.
Xenk was a great guest PC as he's the perfect counterpoint to the main characters. He's a shining example of what the players could become if they stopped playing grab ass long enough to actually do something. He shows up with his old character from the DM's old game and some notes from the DM on what's going on here, and he plays his heart out for his one appearance, then just walks off at the end of the night.
12:28 I dunno if it was intentional on the part of the filmmakers, but Doric *is* a term out of architecture, so it could arguably fit in with Forge as "non-name words repurposed as names."
But yes, no shame in fantasy name lists/generators. My go-to halfling name came from one: Bingo Smallburrows.
I love that movie. So many fun elements like the Aarakocra prison break, the wild shape sequence, the 5 question resurrection surfe and the portal heist. My favorite moment was Xenk trying so hard to smite but missing every single attack.
I watched it with my family, they enjoyed it quite a lot and now they're on their way to find Wave Echo Cave.
I love the film's theme about failure too, which is something everyone should learn but us TTRPG players can really benefit from. When things don't go your way, what do you do next? You will always do something next or the game's over, and it might be more interesting than what you first intended.
I watched this movie before I ever started DnD, this movie was part of the reason why I got into it, once I learned Szass Tam and Themberchaud were real and part of DnD lore I was like "wow, that's pretty cool that stuff like that exists." That said, one of the critiques that someone had that doesn't take away from the movie itself but might annoy someone that's a specific about the particulars is that the Bard has no magic
I think he does. He effects people with music throughout the entire film, its just not flashy or clearly magic.
What each class does in the movie was streamlined
The wizard/sorcerer magics
The Druid wild shapes
And the bard inspires
Excuse me, but Gamers Dorkness Rising is also a dnd movie done right!
I think the hardest part of a DMPC is that the DM is omnipotent about everything except how the players will react. It's even harder to not metagame when you already know what all the answers are, because it's just so tempting to act on that knowledge. That's why I agree that a DMPC, if ever employed, must function on a different paradigm than normal players, and personally would recommend being explicitly built in a support role. Play the healer when everyone in the party wants to play DPS. If a spellcaster, focus on buffs, debuffs, and battlefield manipulation rather than flashy damage spells. Even if the character is martial based, an emphasis on things like disarms and bull rushing (coming from a Pathfinder player at least) to weaken foes and reposition them. Funny enough, I feel like a DMPC can get away with a character who's a "technical pacifist" a lot more easily than another player at the table.
This film finally understood that every player is the focus of their game. This was a PC Party, no doubt about it. After all the OGL bollocks I was impressed how well this film came together and wonder what could have been.
Quick question what does OGL stand for?
@@Solstice261 I was referring to the 'Open Gaming Licence" debacle that happened at the end of 2022 to early 2023. Didn't want to stoke old coals as it's been talked to death, but Hasbro and WotC's actions probably had a consequence for this film launching shortly after it had resolved.
@riculfriculfson7243 ah ok, thanks, I am not really into knowing what WoTC do so I wasn't aware
@@Solstice261 Sorry. I'm using too many acronyms. WotC refers to 'Wizards of the Coast', the company that owns the Intellectual Property (IP) of the game 'Dungeons & Dragons'. Wizards is owned, in turn, by the parent company of Hasbro (toy manufacturer). The 'suits' in charge wanted to increase the monetization of the brand and tried to crucify content creators on UA-cam. It did not go... well for them. The backlash on this film can also be due in part to the ill will created in the Table Top Role Playing Game (TTRPG) community. I hope this helps 😁
@@riculfriculfson7243 yeah I know I was saying I don't follow how wizards of the coast missmanage the license so I wasn't aware of the whole ordeal, it makes sense to use acronyms it's a bloody long name, thanks for explaining the whole ordeal, glad the TTRPG community won
Are you reading my mind Mike?!?!? I watched the D&D Movie 2 days ago because I saw it was leaving Netflix in 2025. My understanding was that most people who watched the movie thought of Xenk as more of a guest character and I thought that as well. Only on my second watch just 2 days ago did I connect the dots that he was actually a DMPC. You someone have just the right video I want to watch. Are you a wizard??
Is it still on Netflix cause I check and it wasn't there which is strange....
I lean more toward guest character who spent time with the DM to make sure he fulfilled what was needed to be done by his character. Either way I love that is what we talk about with him.
From the moment I saw this movie, it was very clearly a campaign of D&D put to film. This weekend my wife and I are going to be watching it with some friends who have never seen it before, one of them has played D&D since he was little and the game was new and the other's only experience with it is seeing him play. Its going to be fun to see how they like it.
2:33 I don't think asking a player to roll a new character if their current one doesn't want to go on the adventure is rude - or that a GM should even worry about it maybe being rude. The player is violating rule #1 of TTRPGs: "Your character must want to go on the adventure with the rest of the team". It is a team based game about adventures, and it is entirely reasonable to expect characters to be designed to accommodate that. If you want to play a broody lone wolf character who doesn't want to go on the adventure you can do that by yourself in your fanfic or whatever.
So GMs, don't even think it might be rude to ask players to bring a character that is willing to go on the adventure. It's literally the bare minimum they need to do.
Xenk absolutely read to me as a guest player too. I really loved seeing that, because my current and longest running campaign has had multiple temporary allies like that.
Perfect topic
Now do the other three bad D&D movies
Funnily enough, Amazon Prime DID recommend the 2000 film to me today; “Since you liked the 2023 movie, you might like this” lol
what i love about this movie and make it feel very D&D to me is every time the characters make a plan and make mistakes or even every time something cool is happening i can actually imagine the cut hour long discussion and planing just for a bad roll to fuck everything up or a Nat 20 that make a "imposible situation" feel like a walk in the park, the perfect quote i find about why this movie is good representantion of what is to play D&D is that "people start a campaing wanting to be Lord of the Rings but almost always finish being Monty Pyton" in other worlds if your heroes arent a bunch of idiots that ocationally get their shit toguether to save the world thats not D&D🤣
13:07 That is exactly the character I was thinking of. I even went so far as to have him be shifty about his name so I wouldn't have to say it.
It's a bummer we won't get a sequel. It'd be awesome if we eventually DND TV show, whether it's live action or animated.
(Also that kis from Freaks and Geeks writes and directs now)
Mike brought up how Matt Colville just made a video on how groups play very differently, then popped up a link to that video. For anyone who hasn't seen it, SEE IT. It is a FASCINATING video, absolutely a banger. Go hear about how the primordial formation of d&d was wild, and how many things have echoes of differing interpretations of the hobby today.
It's interesting that you've commonly come across the complaint that this didn't "feel like D&D." I think I've heard one or two people maybe say that, but it's been an extreme Fringe. Most of the people who said that I found upon pushing, didn't even actually see the movie, what they're saying is the vibe I got off of the preview didn't feel like D&D to me.". Interesting that you heard that critique a lot more than me, but I don't claim to be part of the broader D&D critiquing community, so I'm probably just not having my finger on the pulse as it were....
One thing I did want to throw out, is I think that the second of the old D&D movies, Wrath of the Dragon God, gets a massively unfair shake. It's clearly a product of its time, particularly in the special effects department, but I would actually argue that it also has the vibe of D&D. If anything, I would say honor amongst thieves catches the vibe of the modern D&D table perfectly, and wrath of the Dragon God catches the vibe of a slightly older mindset perfectly; and both actually incorporate recognizable mechanics and game styles into them from their respective popular editions at the time. Basically both honor among thieves and wrath of the Dragon God had a cast of characters that while I was watching the movie I was constantly thinking "yep, I've totally played with this guy at my table."
If you haven't watched wrath of the Dragon God, I would recommend it. You don't actually have to watch the preceding movie, which I wouldn't recommend anyway.
Just a thought: I think part of the reason that Doric works as a name while sounding fantasy inspired is because it's Greek. As in Doric columns, or the Doric (More commonly Dorian) mode in music (Scarborough Fair is written in this mode). Historic names - even if not specifically for people - are a gold mine of inspiration.
Xenk has always felt like a guest character like from an old campaign that was about Thay and was like back in town for a couple weeks and the DM was like Hey you wanna play your old character again?
Back in the 90s, we had a DM that did that a lot. We had played a previous campaign to high level in a custom setting, then retired the characters in order to start new characters in that same setting....and our DM was routinely bringing back our old characters as NPC's. It was so cool.
I loved this movie so much! My absolute favorite randomly generated fantasy name I ever found: Wiweth. Say it out loud. I couldn't do it. I could not use the name and create a serious character. But I love it so much!
Honestly I was genuinely surprised to hear that people say this doesn't feel like D&D to them. To me this is the most D&D feeling thing I've ever seen besides actual D&D
Side note to the movie: Doric had her own book that gave her much more story and attention which didnt help the people who only watched the movie, but i do recommend reading it, i enjoyed it greatly.
Otherwise, yeah, the movie felt a lot like D&D to me and i could see a lot of things as if they were dice rolls throughout the movie as well as just really nice shows of appreciation to the source material.
Doric got a book??? I've got to get on this, we were cheated of Doric content!
@dolphin64575 it's called D&D Honor Among Thieves: The Druids Call
I LOVED this D&D movie. Best thing since The Gamers.
If you are having trouble wrapping your head around the idea of PCs acting as mercenaries, I would suggest reading Mercedes Lackey's "By the Sword" (Kerowyn's Tale), which gives a pretty insightful justification for mercenaries. You might also want to read the "Vows & Honor" trilogy before that, as it's the prequel, but "By the Sword" also stands on its own, and both tie in to the rest of the mainline of Lackey's "Valdemar" books.
I absolutely loved the movie (although at first I wasn't a fan due to a horrible theater-going experience... long story) and felt like it represented the type of campaign I was and still am running, where there are serious character moments, but also a Monty Python-esque sense of humor running through it. I still call out "Oh, Jarnathan!" at times when something out of the ordinary occurs.
Jenkly to you good sir!
"Doric" is likely from the Dorians of ancient Greece - who *may* have originated in more wooded/upland areas, and *may* be derived from an earlier word for wood - and thus is appropriate for a druid. Later their name becomes associated with the musical "Dorian mode" and the "Dorian order" of architecture.
Honestly the movie was very much fun, thanks for reminding me of it, really managed to grab the essence of d&d in a way a lot of adaptations (looking at you secret levels) blunder completely, it really shows different types of characters, how they can work despite their personalities, and an inspirational rendition of an annoying lawful good paladin DMPC being actually great and funny
I think the "dungeons and dragons" label in the title ended up doing this movie a disservice.
Yes, its a great DnD movie, with lots of lil references to the game. But also, it's just a good movie in general. It's funny, well paced, has a good storyline, with strong individual motivations driving each character. It's great! But I think a lot of people were poisoned because the last dnd movie was *terrible*.
I loved the movie, and it felt very similar to my games.
It’s not Citizen Cain or anything, but it was a very fun romp
5:38 i once was a quest for one session as a mid level wizard (12) who didn’t want to kill anyone so I picked buff and debuff spells, I did this because this dm doesn’t do a whole Lotta combat and I knew I didn’t want to steal any kills from the players, so that’s a lesson for us quest players. Learn the vibe of the table and Mike did touch on this. If the group doesn’t like ass holes and there all good people then unless you have a plan for this don’t be the only ass hole. If everyone likes being the smart talkers than don’t playa genius that steals there thunder. As quest we help the players but the story is not about us.
Xenk was definitely a DM PC.
I watched D&D and Evil Dead Rise in the same day; they both felt a lot like my tabletop games XD
Maybe I'm the only one who see it this way, but wasn't Xenk casually Laying On Hands when he interacted with that dragonborn beggar? I thought that him touching the dragonborn was a subtle nod to the question of "shouldn't clerics and paladins out in society be using up all their healing every day, in order to do the most good"
This movie absolutely ruled
Nice overview. Well done. 👏
the biggest disappointment i had with this movie is still inconsequential. I just really dislike the Forgotten Realms setting. I really, really hate it.
but this was an incredible movie.
I'm not very fond of it either but it's appropriate for a mass appeal movie, generic fantasy with about all the cliches and a lot of variety, not as interesting as the others but easier to grasp for people who have no clue about the lore
Mike, how fast are your home sessions? I can't imagine my group getting through an Honor Among Thieves campaign in that few sessions. We spent two years completing Wild Beyond the Witchlight, but that was in part because our DM had a VERY relaxed pace.
The D&D movie passes muster, which means that it manages to be an entertaining movie that does no disservice to the IP or the genre, and doesn't embarrass anyone involved. It's not the D&D movie I would have made, but I can live with that.
If you want to see more movies that could serve as inspiration for your D&D campaign, I would happily recommend any of these instead:
10. The Golden Voyage of Sinbad (1973) -- You can definitely see the influence that this movie (and its predecessor) had on the original D&D game!
9. The Mummy (1999) - A campy pulp adventure with an asymmetrical party of adventurers that captures the dynamic of D&D better than that awful D&D movie released around the same time.
8. Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - This movie and the sequel/prequel are great old-fashioned distillations of pulp action adventure.
7. Conan the Barbarian (1982) - Obviously.
6. Brotherhood of the Wolf (2001) - Hell, yes! Action, adventure, intrigue, monsters, and sex!
5. Flesh + Blood (1985) -- An underrated medieval adventure movie about a ruthless band of landsknecht mercenaries who seek revenge against the lord who screwed them over. This is a grounded, if unglamorous, depiction of what adventuring parties would have to be like.
4. The Wild Bunch (1969) -- An ugly and nihilistic, but compelling western about a gang of aging outlaws whose era has long passed. Again, it provides a picture of what kind of fate might actually await adventurers who have no vision.
3. The Seventh Voyage of Sinbad (1958) -- Magic, monsters, action, exotic locales! This movie has everything you could possibly want in a Fantasy adventure!
2. Big Trouble in Little China (1986) -- Possibly the best example of Urban Fantasy ever put to film. Would that everyone gaming sessions could be this fun!
1. The Seven Samurai (1954) -- An absolute classic that everyone should see. More than anything else, this film is about what causes are worth fighting and dying for. How often does a DM get to instill these kinds of thoughts into the players?
^ You've probably covered some of these already, but any of them would be worth detailing in an entire video.
also i'm mad that we didn't get more dragons. it was much more of a dragon cameo despite the poster.
I really loved the movie and it does feel like quite a few games I've been in. Especially when the "It's THESE idiots who have to save the day? Wait. Those idiots are US!" kicks in.
You do know that everyone is goes to make it a tie to the best of their ability now.
This movie was great. Want more.
Fantastic video! Thank you.
Thank you for your thoughts, and for reminding me about this fun movie! ❤
Mike, have you seen the D&D episode on Secret Level? IMO it does a really good job at portraying the classes and a typical session
In my opinion it does a dreadful job, but each to its own, to me it just seemed like a very generic story and characters (admittedly time constraints) just with the setting of d&d so gold dragons and the queen, it's a campaign you can do sure but it didn't feel like a campaign with actual player characters but rather a video game cutscene
2:15 Not going on the quest. No, it been a problem with some the groups I played with even back in 1E. I even created a short story due to one so called player not wanting to go on the quest. But even back then STORY vs IT’S A GAME was a conflict.
It was a great D&D movie but it was not a great fantasy movie. There was not enough flavor, or meat for me to really care about characters or world, if I wasn’t into the game.
This is a good channel. I like Mike.
I loved this (imperfect but so so fun) movie and I want a million more.
An hour?? The plot of this movie would take at least three sessions and about 12-15 hours with my group
Doric is a language and also refers to some architectural stuff.
One could argue Xenk's name is akin to Henk, which is an actual Dutch name.
Coincidence? Most fucking likely. Potentially working? Yes
Fun fact: on page 41 of the 2014 Player's Handbook, "Henk" is listed as one of the Male Orc Names... 😂
I loved the movie I even used it to explain DnD to my Grandma. The only real problem with the movie is that Hasbro spent to much money on it. So it need to make near a billion dollars to turn a profit.
Dorit is a real name, I thought Doric was based on that.
i saw it like thrice in cinema
Honestly, the other D&D films weren't terrible...
They just weren't good. Yes there is a difference. I can turn my brain off and enjoy the first film again. But this movie works even when I keep my brain functioning properly.
IMO, it was an alright generic fantasy movie. However, I have to agree with those people who say it didn't feel like D&D. As it only had a very thin veneer of D&D, tacked onto a very conventual story line. They had a whole established universe to work with, but instead they went with new characters that don't really mean anything, to anyone.
I love this movie I wish it did better :(
So sad more people didn't see this movie in the Theatre. Cult Classic, better than Serenity (Firefly).
The Ed Sheeran thing is a bit, right? Right?
Ohhh HAT. Not the 2000 one.
Three days in a row
I honestly don't know if it's a good movie overall, but watching it felt like watching my friends playing because I saw them playing on Discord and asked to connect because I'm curious. And it was what I went in for
No. Next question.
I disagree
It didn't have Jeremy Irons devouring the scenery, so zero stars.
In all fairness the movie was good, but not great. For me the humour was mostly average and it felt like the actors were having to do a lot of their own directing, so the tempo of a lot of scenes was lacking. The curse of american-style improv comedy strikes again I feel.
I will not watch anything associated with wotc. I will not stop boycotting WOTC.
ok
Good for you, I on the other hand will keep pirating books and watching movies I like because WotC doesn't give a damn if people watch what is essentially an advertisement, they care that you buy the new books, which I don't need to do to keep playing, you ain't better than others for saying you are boycotting
if you do not want to participate
then leave my table and crawl back under whatever rock you came from
STOP WASTING MY GODDAMN TIME