Digital Vs Analog Night Vision
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2022
- Night Vision Vs Night Vision at Home. Today we examine the progress of digital night vision, including an in-depth comparison of the Sionyx Aurora vs Gen 3 intensifier tube night vision.
Later, we speculate as to the future of NVG and preview the Sionyx Opsin and where digital technology may take us. - Розваги
“… so long as you have a lot of money”. FACTS! Seriously, sell whatever you have to and get NVGs. Absolute game changer shooter experience. I promise.
I love having night vision. Now i'm just trying to find a lot more money so i can try out some different thermals and an opsin.
there's actually decent chinese nvg that can used to see upto a 100 yards for around 330$
ua-cam.com/video/CfErpPyQaBM/v-deo.html
Ima start off with that syonix opsin
@@pablo4yu just reviewed the opsin. It's progress but i'd still rather have a pvs14 for the moneu.
@@SpecOpsGear money isnt a problem, but instead to dip my toe into nvgs… a beginner set up really. Then a pvs-14 gen3 white phos… then a nice dual tube setup or if i can find it ill try for some quads as a final setup
I think another big attraction to digital NVDs is that you don't have to focus the tubes for near and far targets, it'll always be focused.
The aurora still needs manual focus to see up close
Set to infinity focus and forget about it until you need to read something under nods.
@@SpecOpsGear can easily change with software
If you have ever used the real deal. The focus bs you are talking about. Doesn’t matter.
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood close in focus matters for fine motor skills like typing in combinations, using hand tools etc. For that, active IR illum combined with lensecaps with small holes are the move.
For operating firearms and vehicles, i just train the controls etc so that i can do them by feel and leave my nods focused on infinity... just like everyone else.
I think the coolest digital night vision technology out there, is coming from that Vonscherf Arms dude. His pvs-69 just keeps evolving, and he's doing a shit ton of R&D using low latency FPV drone gear. From what I understand, his stuff his pretty neck and neck with gen 2. Hopefully, I'll be able to find out for myself when I finally get the equipment and build my own.
I'm contacting him to do a collab and/or in-depth review of the 69... i also really wanna see what the MAWL clone can do. Thanks.
@@SpecOpsGear I hope you can make something happen. That would be badass. The more people mess with this stuff, the better.
Can confirm the PVS-69 works good. I made a pair a a couple months back and I’ve tried them I’m a few different scenarios both in overcast moonlight as well as undercover in a building with very little ambient light and no supplemental IR light and they work very well
Can confirm. In the discord wanting to order mine.
Been talking the the pvs69 guy and it sounds like the mawl clone is more of a toy. I might be able to procure a pvs69 in the next few months when another youtuber is done with it.
I have high hopes on the Opsin. It's priced competitively at pvs14 gen2. I think its priced as such stepping into the NVG Monocular market to get support and is really designed to compete with gen2+ or 3.
My hopes are that it will complete with real nvg gen3 and with firmware updates overtime will ultimately give it an edge. We'll see.
I agree, I think so too. if the aurora is 500-1k, what could they do with a unit at the 2.5k mark? I may sell my Aurora and some spare scopes to get into an Opsin.
I'd LOVE it if they made a shorter pano version as well, because with digital tech, the toilet paper tube housing shape is not a necessary design constraint.
The opsin doesn’t even come close to competing with Gen 2 or 3 analog.
@@tylerschneible584 Proove it dude, show us
@@DjAlonDevil friend of mine has one. in very high light pollution, it arguably produces a better image than a photonis XD4. but as soon as it starts actually getting dark, the opsin struggles quickly.
From what I've seen, the Opsin's image under good lighting conditions is about on par with Gen2+, but once it starts getting really dark, it doesn't hold up. Add on top of that the refresh rate, and it doesn't seem to be on par with analog tubes yet. However, it's a good step in the right direction, and it's significantly easier to make digital imaging devices cheaper in the long term than analog tubes are. If you don't know anything about the analog manufacturing process, just know you're probably better off sacrificing a goat to the NV gods than try to figure out how to make them consistent. Digital cameras on the other hand, have dropped in price tremendously in the last 20 years.
If the budget is not extremely low, digital units can be extremely good, but at one condition: you should compensate their lower efficiency with a good IR illuminator. I bought a digital night vision monocular for 400$ (the cheapest unit offering an almost effective 1:1 optical zoom, plus x2, x3, x6 digital zoom); combined with a good telescopic IR torchlight mounted on the helmet and adjusted to be aligned with the NVG, I can clearly see (still with the maximum FOV such device can offer) between 100 and 200 meters in a no-moon/no-starts deep night in the forest. I use it mainly for some airsoft trainings and events, where I guess it wouldn't be nice to see your 2000$ analog NVG hit and smashed by some bb shot...
Lack of low light sensitivity is the big problem with digital units. Yes, you can supplement with active IR but that makes you vulnerable to anyone else with night vision.
adding IR to make digital units is only useful or smart as long as you are going against enemies like robbers or muggers or whatever of that kind who extremely likely will have no NVGs, or hunting, but as said before, it basically lights you up like a beacon (unless you use an IR illuminator and throw it or place it somewhere away from you) against people with proper NODs or even security cameras which can see you from far away at that point.
With an illuminator just hope enemy has zero night vision capabilities (not even a 20$ camera) and put it on a tripod or something pointed in the required direction while it being pretty far away from you, like that is the safest thing you can do
Haha. I remember that sound when we turned on the PVS5’s we were issued in 1986.
Oh man. Depth perception was rough. Plus we were warned not to wear them for more than 15 min at a time so we didn’t go blind! 😂
Times change! I saw a used pvs7 for sale on the local gun classifieds... kind of tempting for the price.
@@SpecOpsGear I think a pvs7 is 3rd Gen. If the price were right. I’d def pic one up!
I was recently looking at the Bering optics Stryker for $1779.00
I’d like to have something to keep in my truck.
Truck gun and truck NV
I think I've seen gen 2 and gen 3 versions of the pvs7. I'd take a gen3 pvs7... but... if the price was close i'd rarher have a pvs14 instead. I saw a pvs7 for 1300 awhile ago, that was a deal if it worked ok.
Fantastic video, sir. Appreciated.
Hey thanks. There's definitely people who know more than i do, but i hope it was helpful.
PS, I've seen some of your vids so it's a small world.
I've heard the nightfox cape may be better but I don't know would love to see your review on that.
One more problem with digital is they use like 10 times the battery. Pro being ability to record and don't need to worry about light damage as much. I highly doubt digital will catch up though.
Also "Gen-4" analog night vision is a marketing gamic, some use it to refer to units with unfilmed tubes, which offer slightly better contrast than filmed ones of same specs. Sometimes it's used to refer to very high spec tubes too.
Yes, i understand that there's argument over what constitutes a true gen4.
But, at the end of the day theres a huge variation in gen 3 performance so i can see why some are moving to call their highest spec tubes gen 4.
Digital night vision doesnt have to worry about light damage at all.
I have the Opsin on order. I have analog night vision, but I do feel digital is the future. I feel like a lot of people will disagree with that statement... but we shall see.
I think the only question is when digital will surpass analog. I'm hopeful on the Opsin but won't know until i get one.
Digital may be the future but it definitely isnt the move right now
I've been doing research on Nightfox products lately. I recommend checking them out. Check out the nightfox swift and the Nightfox cape.
I think these might be the future of decent budget digital nightvision
I think the aurora is more of the budget digital night device. I guess defining "budget" is relative. But compared to a pvs14, the aurora is way cheaper.
@@SpecOpsGear yeah this is the under $300 range. most young people are going to be poor these days, so I'm thinking on their terms.
@@captaindookey young has advantages though. You can have room mates and probably dont have kids and a mortgage. When i was in my twenties before i quit drinking, tobacco and weed, i could have bought a pvs14 and supported an ammo habit with my partying budget. Starting out at 18 sucks, but once i stopped partying all the time, learned some life skills and had some patience life got a lot better.
I personally have the nightfox red helmet mounted. 1x magnification makes walking doable. Running is sketchy. The integrated ir is adequate. As the creator said, much better than having nothing.
@@Rondogky to be clear, i dont mean it in a bad way. Some of the guys are trying to talk me into testing a pvs69, which is a diy digital nvg setup that some say is pretty decent for the money.
For home defense or perimeter security, you could surround your house or property with IR perimeter lights positioned so you'd be behind the light. Then, even if people had intensifier tube setups they'd just be staring into spotlights... if attackers had no nvg it would just be dark.
You had some great memes in this video!!!
You can download the memes from the article specopsgear.com/digital-vs-analog-night-vision/
😄 This is great. Looking for my first mono setup now. 5K budget. Have the helmet. Gobbless Jeebus.
At this point, the safe bet is still probably a gen 3 white phos pvs14. I'm probably gonna pick up an Opsin because i feel like digital is the future and I want to push it to its limit head to head against gen 3. But, since publishing the video there've been a few rumors that the opsin may not be quite as sensitive in very low light conditions.
Also, budget for IR lasers/illuminators etc. If you shoot at night, you'll probably also want to get a suppressor.
nice video. i had the plesure to test a sionyx opspin against my pvs 14 with gen 2 tube. i think it was a good compare cause both was in price (in Germany) around 2700€. it was not the best conditions for the opsprin cause it was realy cloudy and in a forest. the ospin worked there, and you can find your way where you are looking for. but me with my Pvs 14 had no issues at all. may in some years it will become an nice opponent for real night vison. but for now an cheep gen 2 outperformers even the opspin
I see the opsin as progress, not perfection. Greetings from the Pacific Northwest of America.
Looking forward to your "Opsin" review.
Check out my channel, opsin review is live
I've been playing with one of the cheap IR camcorders and I'm looking for an external monitor that's only 2" and not touch screen, USB. Could mount the camera anywhere with just a small flat screen to flip down or some sort of telescopic arm off a shoulder or chest or back mount. I'm going to play with it a bit more before I dissect and rehouse it.
I modded an old gopro to pick up near ir light. It works but it needs a lot of active ir to see anything.
There's quite a few Sionyx Opsin reviews and comparative videos out now. The Opsin is definitely a good step up for digital, and in the right conditions is arguably better than gen2+ tubes, partly due to field of view and contrast/details but the old analogs still beat it in very low light. But...the question is, is it worth $2500? I'm hesitant to say one way or the other. Maybe for the right conditions, yes. If the price were under, say $1500, then it would be an excellent choice for more budget friendly equipment.
One thing that caught my eye was the stated specs, it claims to be sensitive from 400nm to 1200nm. One video showed it in operation looking at a 1050nm flood light and it can see it, but it didn't seem to light up the surrounding area much, so it seems that sensitivity really falls off at the longer wavelengths (as does pretty much any digital NV today).
I agree that opsin would be much more appealing at 1500. For 2500, you can start getting into a decent pvs14. Even still, seems like amazing progress toward the goal of improving night vision technology.
sorry dude but when it comes to night vision. you want whatever goggle does the best in the lowest light conditions. there is such thing as "right light conditions" because you want night vison that will perform best in the worst light conditions possible.
@@colemorrison8957 Agree, and that's why I said the analog tubes still win in the lowest light. However, if you watch some of the videos and see the photos, there are scenarios where the Opsin is better. The problem is, you can't count on those conditions and the price of the Opsin is too high for what it can do.
The best part, though, is that the Opsin is a big step up from previous digital technology. It's getting there and will probably be the best technology at some point.
@@SpecOpsGearyea the price difference isn't worth the gap between the black or pro to the opsin.
It's not $2000 better than the aurora
Black.
The question is if the Opsin is actually using a different sensor.
It's strange that Sionyx never released a version with a monochrome sensor. By removing the Bayer color filter it would easily get an extra Stop of light and double performance.
Dear god, at 2.5k they better be using a better sensor.
Opsin uses the new XQE 1350 sensor, very different from what's in the Aurora. As far as a monochrome ver, one of the selling points is color night vision. Therefore maybe another version could be monochromatic, but I don't see SiOnyx doing that.
While a stop of extra performance is a lot, judging from available footage & comments from people who tried the Opsin and compared to gen2+ and gen3, it sounds like much more than doubling the light intake is needed. Sounds like Opsin works great at full moon and in urban environments, but the light levels drop by orders of magnitude when going to starlight or worse.
@@remakine yeah, unfortunately thats the same story with the aurora.
If you want the power up sound, I have a soviet 3 stage gen0+ scope.
The future is looking pretty good for night fighting capabilities with all these "experimental" progresses with 3D printed Suppressors and now digital night vision.
Here and there I've considered getting a lathe and cnc mill.
I have seen a major difference between an ATN NVG GEN 2 and an ITT GEN2+. Not knowing what quality of tube they have used in the ATN scope it is not as sensitive as the tube from ITT. There are definite blems in the ATN but not in the critical field of view. My next investment would be a gen 3 tube and supply if I can find one for a decent price.
You can get pvn57 nvgs for around $100-$200, and they can be adapted to take rechargeable airsoft gun batteries. You need an IR light for it to work, but all you need is the nvgs, a battery, and a couple plug adapters you can get at the same store as the battery. A little solder and you're ready to own the night lol
Low buck digital isn't quite owning the night. But, if you're going against opponents with nothing then it's better than nothing.
With fixed IR perimeter lighting you could also use cheap digital to monitor for unwanted activity while hiding behind the photonic barrier.
@@SpecOpsGear you can't really claim to own the night unless you can afford pano nvgs and maybe thermal overlay, and the Panos are gonna set you back like 50 grand, which I can afford if you'll loan me 49 grand. For the $150 I put into mine they're damn good, just need to use my IR light and I'm all set to party like it's the soviet union
Those 4G tubes are not fourth generation. They are a gimmick with a high center resolution to manipulate the FOM. Also, the OPSIN is comparable to 2nd Gen. Still lags behind in very dark conditions. This is shown on a Swedish airsofter channel. He compared Gen 2 + vs the OPSIN.
Damn it you beat me to it
I feel like you make a fair statement. The last few high FOM filmless autogated gen3 tubes I've looked through were very impressive. They're noticeably better than normal gen 3 tubes and lightyears better than a New Old Stock g3 Green Omni tube I tested out.
To me, it seems like potato-potato, and there's a very wide range of performance within g3. So much that I can see why some call the top tier g4/g3+. At the same time, I get why purists argue that certain thresholds have not been met to justify the declaration of a new generation.
Is Pluto a planet??? Depends on who you ask and when you asked them. But, despite arguments of definitions, pluto has been the same no matter how we label it.
I got a tkkok nvg10 to test it out it's good for recording it would be good for airsoft and I've heard of people using them for night games but digital gots a lot to more advancing to go
I dont think nvg10 is a good measure of where digital is currently. Working on testing out an opsin soon, which should be a better measure of what modern commercially available digital tech can do.
Training including.
I'm just excited to see how digital nv improves over the next 10 years. Right now the best digital nv is slightly better than Gen 1 NV but I would be willing to bet that in 5 years it's on par with Gen 2 and another 5 of will almost certainly be on par with early Gen 3. With machine learning and tech getting exponentially faster and more powerful every year I could see digital overtaking analog in the next 15-20 years. And when it does, since it's digital, they can do extra cool things like having team wide HUD, a gun camera PIP mode for shooting around corners, overlaid thermal with minimal weight increase, and basically anything else you can think of.
An AI-driven thermal and digital NV fusion could be very interesting.
@@SpecOpsGear I would also think you could do some sort of synchronization to have an ir laser that could be modulated to a certain frequency or something that is matched up with your nv device and that way only you and your team could see it even if your enemy has nv. Especially since digital can already see far out of band compared to analog.
@@SpecOpsGear The L3 ENVG-B's are a fusion of thermal and IR (but using analog tubes) with AI (part of your video showed it in action). It also has a compatible weapon site that displays in the viewers vision, so you don't have to shoulder the weapon, can shoot around corners, etc and never expose your body.
I expect digital will eventually be the go to, but the thing that gets me at this point, is why they are so low resolution compared to a "normal" camera. The better digitals are running 640 res. Why do we not see IR digital running sensor resolutions similar to regular cameras? All regular digital cameras are sensitive to IR and they have IR filters installed. There's plenty of YT hacks showing how to remove those filters to get low light sensitivity.
Also, I wonder if anyone is working to make a CMOS that is sensitive to far IR (thermal)? If they could, they'd still be expensive because of the special lens material needed since far IR won't penetrate glass. I don't know, maybe it just won't work with current chip manufacturing methods and materials.
@@bghiggy The problem is, digital sensors aren't gated to specific tight frequencies. They can sense a relative range of frequencies in the near IR band. For example, they tend to be most sensitive to around 850nm, but 940nm IR torches are not uncommon with hunters to avoid the red glow of the 850nm lights so as not to spook game. But, your digital scope can still see 940nm just fine. It does degrade performance of the sensor as it isn't quite as sensitive to 940nm, but it can still see that frequency, especially if all you need to do is see light shining in the woods in the dark, to know someone is there. So, no matter what modulation or frequency, an IR sensitive sensor is going to see it (if yours does, theirs will too).
You definitely seem like the man to ask, what's the best budget night vision set up I can/should but? I don't want to be disappointed but also can't afford eotechs $40k nvgs either
Whats the budget and whats the use case?
Hoplopfheil's "night vision 101" video series is a good place to start.
You've gotta budget for a helmet, mounting system, Laser Aiming Module and a night vision compatable optic if you want passive aiming.
ua-cam.com/video/pO_KAudQBzU/v-deo.html
Get an ATN-14 of a WOLF-14, cheapest units you can find brand new. Unless you want to purchase a used PVS-14. You could also use the Aurora as a monocular, but not recommended.
My problem is. I want a helmet mounted NVG but i currently only have a handheld Analog NV. and that the Night vision device is quite old. I belive it's only like gen 1 or 2 idk
Whats your budget? What devices are you considering?
Agree on the Aurora! It is a good camera, and it helps see what isn't visible with the naked eye. Not comparable to tubes, but better than nothing.
I am selling mine - great shape - check Spokane WA craigslist
Spokane, at least you can sneak across the border to the couer de'alene cabelas for contraband.
just fyi, that pvs31 is pvs31D / Elbit F5032. It does not use unfilmed white phos. Pinnacle means thin film, not unfilmed (only L3Harris has unfilmed tubes at the moment, russia also recently developed it but not widely produced and sold to civ market, especially not when there is a war going). and..... there is no gen4 , at least not yet.
Fair enough, i apologize for the mistake. Generally i aim to understand the concept and only those details that impact me. Since I don't YET own a dozen different devices sometimes I make mistakes on the minutia.
The NVG10 is a very good digital night vision.
Looks like it requires active IR, which makes you highly visible to anyone else with nods.
What kind of night vision was that blue colored one?
The blue tinted night vision that's looking through a round circle is an analog L3 gen 3 thin film white phosphor intensifier tube. It's one of two tubes installed in an ATN PS31-3w binocular night vision housing. They don't send spec sheets but for the money i really like them.
The AURORA PRO is a camera right? So are you saying there’s a way to rig this up and use it as NV attached to your helmet ? I’m super new to NV so I’m trying to figure out the best bang for my buck. Trying to stay around 1000$
Yes aurora pro is a camera, people do rig it up as nvg but it's "not real night vision".
For super budget, you can shop used or an nvm14 etc for about 1,500. Or, for a grand consider a handheld thermal monocular and white light on your gun. The problem with the aurora is that it needs a lot of active IR light to work. Some people live in the city and have a lot of ambient streetlight.... but if things get spicy the powers gonna be out.
Ive seen used pvs7 devices for a grand here and there
I have both digital night vision and thermal scopes and monoculars. The digital NV collects dust in the safe.
And my current go-to is intensifier tube analog night vision. Even a basic thermal scope is a lot more useful than the digital nv scopes i've seen. The question is, how much better for head mounted use is the new opsin and how close to analog can it get?
If you could get digital even close then you'd open up a lot of opportunities. Since thermal scopes sre also digital, it would be easier to make high end thermal NV fusion devices down the road.
@@SpecOpsGear If a person or animal is several feet deep into brush or cover thermal is far superior to any type NV. I see the benefits every night when out coyote hunting. With thermal you can literally see past camouflage or through cover to an extent far better than light amplification... and if an IR illuminator is used the IR light tends to bloom on the first thing it illuminates in front of the user creating a sharp contrast and thus making more different to see things more distant.
That being said... thermal and NV both have their places. Sometimes they compliment one another, sometimes each might have a distinct advantage. The end user should decide what works best for them. The latency (delay through processing) of digital is an issue, probably more so in a tactical situation than hunting but it isn't that bad. Probably the best improvement would beva higher digital frame rate (that also ties into latency).
As you said.... In the world of NV good amplifier tube is better than digital and using an IR illuminator has serious drawbacks tactically and during implementation.
I thought your voice sounded like Hop initially. Great video. You definitely covered the issue more thoroughly than a lot of other videos.
@@michaelfregoe5875 you're absolutely right about the limits of NV. i do some night time pest control on my land and run into all the issues you mention with regard to LAM illuminating foreground brush and also not being able to ID targets. Clip on thermal that overlays on nvg seems like it would be awesome all around. But, for late night predator hunting a dedicated thermal scope seems like it would be best.
Sightmark Wraith Digital Night Vision Riflescope, any good?
While I haven't used that specific device, it's my understanding that it relies heavily on active IR light. What this means is that to animals and people without night vision, it'll be invisible with maybe a slight red glow.... But, to anyone else with night vision you'll be lit up like a Grizwald Christmas.
So, if the unit is reliable it may be a budget way to get some night fighting ability but you're limited by active IR light.
If you can move up market, thermal scopes are preferable for hunting/spotting warm blooded creatures at night.
I'm just waiting for the ospins review =) I wants an honest good and bad
I may have just secured an opsin for the review.
@@SpecOpsGear awesome, I truly hope you get that.
@@SpecOpsGear definitely want to see what that unit is capable of, especially for that price.
Hows the shadow operator max 2.0 digital?
I dont know. Whats the price and does it use a huge ir flashlight like most of the low budget digitals.
I got a aurora black for hemlet use and i got a covert optics thermal with adjustable redicle for mounting on the rifle.
I can use the aurora if i know nobody else has nv capability and if they do i just use the covert optics thermal since its smaller than the aurora and picatinny mounted wit 1 scope ring and has adjustable redicle for zeroing.
I also have a agm asp and I could dual bridge the sionyx and agm,but the agm doesn't have redicle like my covert optics.
After i made this video, i did get an opsin in for review. It's definitely a lot better than the aurora, especially the frame rate. But for 2500- i'd rather get a used pvs14 personally. If the opsin got below 1.5-1.7k, it would be a solid value.
As far as head mounting an aurora, it'll get you outside in the dark, which is good. Used pvs14's come up in my area in the 2k price range. Consider training with the aurora so you get the while saving for a used pvs14 if one comes up. Then either sell the aurora or use it as a backup/loaner.
@@SpecOpsGear I got my black for $360 in new condition so it was hard to pass up.
With the kilhom eyecup.
And sacrificial lense.
So it came with $50 in extras.
@@SpecOpsGear I got a 2x Bushnell gen 1 and I got a atn viper coming tomorrow with headgear I found for $200.
Interesting. I prefer 940 nm NVD ( 940 nm laser illumination can not be observed using Gen 1- Gen 3 NVD crew served) ) As well as VIS-SWIR using only Night time radiance ( 1725 nm) in moonless and overcast conditions.
I guess switching to a wavelength is a way around digital being spotted due to active IR. Is there a commercial wearable device that uses VIS-SWIR? Or, is this a custom built unit?
@@SpecOpsGear I sent you a few hundred words on this with details and the reply "vaporized". Yes they are very expensive (old prices ~ 64K each including software and calibration at D-1 resolution ) and are ITAR restricted for Export by the US State Department. I like the VIS-SWIR ( Visual and Short Wave devices in one unit. Look them up on the Interwebs? key words SWIR, InGaAs, night radiance, 1725 nm.
@@SpecOpsGear US military spy planes and UAV's probably use them. SPECOPS certainly.
Once you get to MIdband the resolution drops as well as the range increases. This is FLIR territory. Marine uses include all of these visual, SWIR and FLIR,
used to have a nice set of moonlighters googles... tubes eh
Nvg are the superpower you can buy, or get for free if you're a Towlie Ban.
I thought prices would fall so i sold my left-eye thermal / right eye night setup and now i'm starting to regret it. I'd need about twice what i got to build that same setup
Ive considered selling my duals to do a pvs14 on one side and a thermal on the other eye.
@@SpecOpsGear i preferred it over duals but some of the people i know got motion sickness from just putting them on and only ~1/3 could make full use of it
I strongly recommend seeing if you can test someone elses before going for it as well as be careful about the trap i fell into.
Also, i'm not sure about the sights you have but putting night vision on your aiming eye was mandatory with the sights i had as they were opaque to the thermal.
@@angrydragonslayer tbh, i had to acclimate to nvg in general because i found myself kind of dizzy after wearing them for a bit. But, i trained myself out of it.
@@SpecOpsGear just be careful, it's a lot of dosh after all
One of those guys was an old army dude who had been using NVGs since just a few years after gen 3 became available and he was on his knees in seconds
Would you happen to know if the Aurora is better than the Nightfox Cape?
While i haven't used the nightfox cape, I'm gonna guess that the Aurora is the better move. In the world of night vision you get what you pay for. Looks like the fox is way cheaper than the aurora, and that's saying something.
@@SpecOpsGear I own 4 Nightfox Cape, it's Image is black and white, it has a range in complete darkness of about 50 meters with its 940nm illuminator, but with cheap ($30.00) 940nm IR flashlight I get out to almost 175 meters. I mount them on airsoft helmets for each member of my family. At $195.00 each with the IR flashlight.my whole family can move in the dark. Was thinking of getting a Aurora.
@@paulrotledge9276 the aurora would be a significant step up because in many situations you can see great with no IR illumination. From full moon down to about 2/3rd moonlight the aurora doesn't need any IR in fairly open country. At 1/2 moon, you can use it but image quality falls off sharply. Under that point you can just use active IR illumination.
That said, analog wins big with less than 2/3rd moon and no active IR. A few months ago, I saw a used but good working PVS7 on the local survival classifieds in the 1,000-1,400 range. A used NVM14 would be even better and similar priced.
@@SpecOpsGear thank you for your thoughts.
I had a Nightfox Cape, the resolution is pretty awful
The tshirt is awesome 😂
I gotta hurry up and get those printed.
I'm still iffy about investing into tubes because I know how fast things are going to change.
I held off for that reason but ultimately pulled the trigger for one reason: we don't know when the lights will go out and then it'll be too late.
@@SpecOpsGear thermals will have to do they're already there
@@mattweger437 you can make a solid argument for thermal before nvg.
@Toesf Uct thats a tough one. For posting up and defending a static position, i'd go thermal scope.
If you need to be highly mobile, operate vehicles, do land navigation etc then pvs14 all the way.
Night hunting would be related to defense, because you'd be posted up in a stationary blind taking shots from cover.
Looking at this as a way to passive shoot with irons as I have a lot of guns that are iron sighted. I know from owning a nightfox swift that digi allows you to shoot irons passive if you blast IR downrange from an illuminator and with my current job I just can't really afford analogue unless I were to get some dark ass gen 1 tubes which would be less capable than this anyway
The opsin is $2500 currently, and at that price you can sneak into a gen 3 tube on sale. I've used weapon mounted white light with irons as you describe. Especially if you are very cosy conscious, i'd consider getting a pvs14.
If both opsin and pvs14 are out of budget, maybe a handheld thermal monocular combined with a weapon mounted white light.
@@SpecOpsGear OH I meant more along the lines of a sightmark wraith monocular or an NVG10, I would absolutely not ever pay over 1000 dollars for digi when I could just find a blem analogue unit to build myself
@@SpecOpsGear I have also considered running a thermal as opposed to digi because it's a lot more functionality at a similar price point and it doesn't need light to detect things
@@bushwhackedonvhs yes, for defensive use a thermal may be more useful than a digi. Also, once you get a pvs14 you need a Laser Aiming Module, mounts, spare LAM etc
@@bushwhackedonvhs oh yeah. That makes sense. I'm working on a defensive nvg concept video that goes into tactics to overcome lower buck equipment
I've got a pair of gen 1+ 4x binoculars I bought over 10 years ago and, frankly, they aren't bad at all. I see some of these NV vids and people gripe about gen 2 or even gen 2+ and I don't get it. The image I get on my gen 1+ is grainy in lower light situations but if it wasn't 4x I could easily walk around with it fine in the dark. What I've really been wondering about is if I could scavenge the photomultiplier tubes from it and use one to build a 1x monocular or even use both to build a 1x binoc? Anyone know of a case or kit that would work?
I think it depends on the conditions and what you're trying to do. For identifying targets at range, gen 2+ can sometimes not be up to the task. But for affordability and land navigation they work. As far as gen 1, they seem to work but need more ambient light than newer stuff.
Good gen1 has gain of some hundreds, and I assume yours is not one of the cheap ones you can get for $200. That gain is something Opsin (at least as far as is known about the sensor, which isn't much) lacks, and how high up the noise floor seems to be I would safely assume your gen1 does better when it gets starlight dark.
Agree very much on gripes about gen2(+), for navigation its mostly nonsense. For detection and especially PID like Spec Ops Gear said they can lack a bit vs newer systems.
As to your desire to convert it to a 1:1 magnification unit it's probably best leave it as it is. Of course it is doable, but whether its worth it is another question.
WHY ARE MY POSTS DELETING? Sheesh, I just suggested you check out NVG10, an inexpensive digital monocular from China. Some UA-cam vids seem to indicate it performed quite well.
IDK i didn't remove it, maybe the algo thinks you're shilling???
@@SpecOpsGear I tried to reword it three times and the final one finally stayed. The NVG10 is between $250-300 and is a smallish monocular with a bit of an awkward design (AA battery 90 degrees off the body) but still smaller than the Aurora or Pro. Different firmware, depending on when you buy, apparently) either reduces lag but decreases sensitivity slightly, or increases sensitivity with higher lag. It is monochromatic with green, black, or white image.
@@BooDamnHoo black image?
@@flyingtanks9313 What do you mean?
@@BooDamnHoo you mentioned it can be set to black image. I've got one of them and can't seem to get black image
There's no lag on my Russian Yukon digital night vision device.
the big problem with a lot of digital is the BIG IR spotlight making you highly visible to all other operators.
I’m running an oculus quest as my IR nvg’s
Yeah, theres a lot of digital devices that can be pressed into service. I see these more as defensive because they often rely heavily on active ir light. That said, you could use ir fixed positon perimeter lighting around your house to level the playing field a bit.
To opponents with legit nods it would look like you had bright flood lights all over your place, creating a photonic barrier for the defenders and providing enough ir to use cheaper digital units.
@@SpecOpsGear yeah I was thinking about that especially with strobing ir lights to blind people using cheap digital IR like the OneLeaf scope attachment. IR flood lights are cheap online and are used by people who play oculus in the dark
@@ChronicAndIronic yeah, then even if you have legit nods itll be like staring into headlights where you cant see whats beyond. The lights have to be fixed placement, otherwise enemies could get you by just shooting at the lights.
What is a PVS 15
A *pvs14* is a military style analog night vision monocular (one eye only).
A *pvs15* is a discontinued military style analog binocular (both eyes).
The *pvs15* has been replaced by the newer and lighter pvs31, which is the updated military style binocular analog system.
The ones with 4 lenses are variants of *GPNVG* (Ground Panoramic Night Vision Goggles). These are more expensive and much heavier, but have a lot wider field of view.
TKKOK M60 Night Vision ever try it out?
Looked it up, and it has a large IR illuminator built in. So "it will work" in the sense that it seems like you'll see in the dark. But theres a catch! to anyone else with night vision, you will be brightly illuminated from a literal mile away.
@@SpecOpsGear Ahh the trade off. Think Thermal might be the best bang for the buck?
@@motorcitymadman146 Yes. with nods, you also need a laser, a helmet, mount etc so the accessories are expensive. With a thermal scope you just put it on a rifle and go.
I just reviewed the agm rattler ts25-384. it's really good for the price and cheaper than legit nvg.
NVG10 and opsin are the only digital NV that actually works
Some of the diy guys are talking about the pvs69.
Why does my vision device need to be powered if I'm using an IR headlamp? Cant, I just have a ski mask that's lens matches my 940 IR light?
Even if you could get a ski mask that would convert ir into visible spectrum, you also need light amplification. This necessitates power input.
imagine spending 5k on a pair of nice night vision then the first time you ever use them in a fight they get damaged/break.
digital sounds alot better to me although personally ill be sticking to more traditional means of seeing at night. For the time being.
If you're ever in a fight with night vision, 5 grand is the least of your worries.... if you lived long enough to complain about the money you're still doing better than the other guy.
I'm not sure digital devices will surpass modern image intensifiers soon.
Modern tubes use semiconductors for the input and the microchannel plates are just as elaborate as many microchips.
In many ways, intensifier tubes are more advanced than digital. Digital is getting way better, and there's military only stuff that's beyond what consumers can buy. But, for go-time stuff gen 3 dual tubes are still my go-to.
@@SpecOpsGear I know Photonis has rather high performing digital sensors in it's portfolio. So I assume others have similar ones. None are accessible to people like me though.
@@heyarno Yeah, for sure if you're comparing civvie legal, widely available affordable digital options intensifiers are king of the mountain.
***I got a chance to play with an opsin the other night and hope to have a review out within the next few weeks.
im still waiting on starlight x27 to become available
What do they want for it? Can it be helmet mounted or is it something else?
@@SpecOpsGear nooo, its a pretty chunky unit still, last i seen it was about the size of a medium/small camcorder, too large for helmet mount, but definitely usable in vehicle mounted setups, or large drone
@@SpecOpsGear there's also been little discussion for public release or price, my assumption is they got picked up by the defense dept/darpa, the test videos they posted were ridiculously cool, it apparently operates via natural ambient ifra red without the need of solar refraction from the moon. here's a link to the x27 in handheld form, like i said its pretty chunky. www.x20.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/color-night-vision-683x1024.jpg
@@Ma77riK what you describe is more like what digital is capable of. They probably want this mounted on predator drones and integrated with thermal... for the GWOT, yeah the GWOT. not the coming CONUS GWOT either. weird I just blacked out for a minute. I'm an airsofter.
when your only NVG is just a oculus quest 2 with a IR light attached to the side...
It's not digorno, it's dastruggle.
@@SpecOpsGear у нас сейчас упали цены на прицелы ночного видения. Военный прицел ПНВ третьего поколения gen-3 стоит примерно 1200 долларов.
I know nothing about night vision, so when I watched this I was so confused which was which lol
Sorry about that, it's a really deep subject that requires more than one video to really understand. Maybe i'll put together a night vison for beginners video in the future.
You're forgetting about ebaps
Is there anything out there for civilian market yet?
@@SpecOpsGear unfortunately nothing yet. I'm hearing that they've improved the original ebaps design and low light condition. If you recall they did not use mcp with it..originally.
The problem is aroura is doomed because they will not listen to customers and inovate. The are competing against PVS14s in a market where people looking to get them do not want binos. They need to use the technology to their advantage. If I can turn on my HTC Vive Focus 3 and have an awesome 180deg view in almost complete darkness with a $1200 headset there is no reason this can not be done with NV.
Yeah, i wish they'd update the form factor to low profile, wide angle binocular glasses.
I don`t agree, that digital nv isn`t able to see without city lights or external light. I am able to use it in natural environment in pretty dark conditions. There are videos on my channel.
What devices?
@@SpecOpsGearI did it by myself, but its efficiency is pretty well. I recorded this video in quite sophisticated conditions with almost half moon and outside a city. The weather was bad (cold), so i couldn't hold my phone calm.
ua-cam.com/video/lreOsv5pU2w/v-deo.html&ab_channel=AlexP
@@katsapopidar 55% moon is doable with digital. Also, you're in an open area in non-stormy weather. Also, you're using supplemental IR light too.
In my test, i was in deep woods, in the rain and no moon above the clouds.
The bottom line is that digital can't keep up with gen 3 tubes.
@@SpecOpsGear I don`t use IR, just at the end of the video for demonstration. " i was in deep woods" inside a city ? Because clouds mirror light from the near settlements. This is example of your environment. No moon, deep forest without leaves. 09.11 time 17:30 full dark. Without ir illuminator, Inside city forest.
ua-cam.com/users/shortsYflS-63KCmc
@@katsapopidar i guess you got it figured out. Start selling your device and get rich.
Why do I want Night Vision? Uh, i just kinda wanna sneak around my house like a ninja.
Thats a good enough reason.
@Spec Ops Gear Like one of those Half-Life assassins, if I ever won the lottery I'd definitely buy the fanciest pair civilians are allowed to buy
Hop is that you?
No, but i live near-ish in the woods within view of Mt Hood.
Look at the NVG10, affordable digital, much less than the aurora
It looks like the nvg10 relies very heavily on active IR illumination. In the woods without ambient human lights, can it function without active IR in full moon, 3/4th or 1/2 moon?
My experience with similar products is that they're highly dependent on active IR.
I don't know how important it is to you, but calling it digital vs analog is actually kind of a misnomer. I think the more accurate way to describe it would be intensifier tube night vision vs camera night vision. This is because some of the camera night vision systems use NTSC cameras, which are analog.
Point taken. As a creator though, I need to use terminology common to the viewing public and by the statistics, a lot more people call it analog night vision.
Even further muddying the water, you can get an intensifier tube attachment for a digital SLR camera too. :/
Nice video but I'm distracted by the fact that you sound like Ben shapiro without caffeine
Lol thats funny
this channel feels like the "half as interesting" to hoplopfheil's "wendover productions"
Thank you. I appreciate the compliment.
Digital night vision is about 40 years behind analog as far as image quality.
No more like 5-10 years for the civilian market, military already has digital night vision on par with analog that costs a stupid amount.
@@DjAlonDevil nobody I know has seen any digital night vision in any branch of the military that is any where near the quality of analog
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood Classified devices exist, I know of some.
@@DjAlonDevil BS I know personally a few men that would have use of these gadgets if they did exist. Tier one guys from 3 branches of the US Military as well as a couple others..
@@Heywoodthepeckerwood I'm not talking about the US military.
Thermals are king for SHTF
Thermals next for me.
All I gotta say is, thank FUCKING CHRIST the quality and price of NVGs will be plummeting over the next decade or so with the new science coming out over the next few years, because the technology that night vision tubes uses is ancient (analog tubes that wear out after only a few thousand hours in 2022? The fuck is this, the 1950's and vacuum tube technology?!) and really needs an upgrade...
I'm frankly more than a little confused why NVGs hasn't had a more substantial digital upgrade thus far; if we can launch the James Webb, overpriced and hilariously behind schedule as it was without exploding, we should figure out a way to make shit like CMOS work in ultra low light conditions.
Honestly I suspect that the companies that are doing the night vision analog stuff now have been curb stopping other companies that would come out with cheaper stuff purely so they could maintain their monopoly...
I think the govt has way better digital tech that they're keeping classified.
As in, not necessarily for individual soldiers, but aircrsft mounted systems on dronea etc.
@@SpecOpsGear Wouldn't surprise me, given the quality of satellites taking pictures of night time conditions from like 1500KM or more up looking like they are taken in daytime, and with any satellite, the tech in them is ALWAYS at least a decade behind current due to the unwillingness to put out the money needed to rad harden current gear until a few years have gone past.
I know that drones like Global Hawk and Reapers don't use Analog tubes; we've seen enough pictures and footage of crashed ones, and nothing in them looks remotely like a analog tube, nor would you be able to use a analog tube due to the constant airframe vibrations from the engines screwing the internals of the tubes up.
Honestly, I just want a cheap set of NVG's I can use whilst night hunting up were I live in Canada, and seeing 10K+ prices for a usable analog tube is beyond infuriating...
@@Shinzon23 for night hunting, a thermal scope is way better than night vision. If you do want night vision, you can get a decent pvs14 for 2 to 3 grand.
@@SpecOpsGear Not up here. 5K minimum is what I've been seeing.
Digital night vision vs comments for the algorithm.
Thank you
If you’re looking for a flir breach I can get one to you.
How do you mean "get one for me"? Like a comped test & eval, or one for sale?
@@SpecOpsGear i have one for sale, i can also probably find someone who is willing to send one in for eval
@@bowdimohawk very interested in a t&e, still weighing options on thermal, right now i'm torn between a jerry-c ecoti knockoff or an agm rattler or similar that can also record.
@@SpecOpsGear jerry c is not good for id, a dedicated thermal scope will always beat it out but you need to actively aim. Personally i would still pick the scope
Opsin gets a really bad rep, on one hand analog boomers are just bashing it because it doesn't perform as well as analog. On the other, people that used the Aurora complain that it's not as versatile. People wanted a proper NVG Aurora and they got it, yes it's more expensive, but so does are the components of Opsin.
When are you planning to get the Opsin? I'm dying to see more videos of it. There are some on UA-cam, but not enough.
I may sell my aurora to get an opsin. It's hard to sort haters from legit criticism sometimes. I saw a basic 3way comp of opsin, aurora & gen2 green and opsin seemed decent.
I'm in my gen 3 duals a lot of money, so i wonder if some of the opsin hate is people justifying their analog purchase.
At 2.5k for the opsin, i'd like to see it hang with analog because you can get a legit pvs14 for that price.
@@belliduradespicio8009 First of all, what gen 1 devices are you referring to? If you are talking about all those cheap devices that are sold on the internet, then they aren't real gen 1's. Opsin is better than the best real gen 1 tubes available, but probably falls short in extremely dark situations vs gen 2. Especially Photonis tubes, which are considered between gen 2+ and gen 3.
@@SpecOpsGear Only in the states dude, many people from around the globe want night vision and they either have to pay premium price for a decent night vision setup, or not have one at all/need some kind of license to import.
@@SpecOpsGear If you are filming stuff with your Aurora, you might want to keep it. Since Opsin isn't optimized to be a camera, even though it's more sensitive.
For the last time! That SFX that is stereotypically associated with night vision goggles came from the Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell tactical stealth action games and in that series, the protagonist, Sam Fisher doesn't even use NVGs, but instead a fictional equivalent called ultra high frequency sonar goggles that are completely different from real world NVGs as they supposedly use a combination of active RADAR and LIDAR sensors to visualize objects based on sound frequencies. This is all video game bullshit for the sake of sounding cool to young teenagers, of course.
Best i can do is a slight whining sound when gen 3 tubes autogate
Well, let's put it this way: If I pop someone at night, post-collapse and he has a Sionyx unit, I'll probably just use it for barter. I wouldn't keep it.
As a primary night vision device, I'd never take an Aurora over a pvs14. But, it's not worthless. The Sionyx aurora is useful as a low cost backup device to hand to a friend, and also useful for recording. S2 Underground has a cool video on swapping the lense out for a much better one. With a swapped lense, it may be useful for observation and recording.
For the price of nvg's i might as well get tiger eyes transplanted to my skull..
Where would someone get tiger eyes? Asking for a friend.
first
welcome
Dude, gen 4 is not a thing 😂
Spoiler, opsin sucks balls. Its only a tad bit better than aurora pro.
Sensor with 3X the low light sensitivity of the Aurora PRO (same sensor being used on US IVAS program), larger display and wider FoV, 10x battery life,
@@theghostofthesa3450 yeah i can also read marketing but having talked to people who have used it. It flat out sucks. Also ivas was canceled and ivas did not use color filters that almost half the light sensitivity. If syonix did less marketing and more sane decisions opsin would be good product. Sadly it is not one and cant be compared to any modern gen 2 tubes…..
Do you have one? How does Opsin stack up for low light recording? I need a better way to film low light because the Aurora requires an almost full moon and open terrain to make good content.
@@Eljanes123 If you can read marketing then its not just a tad bit better than AURORA is it? 🤣
You don't have one, you've never seen one or tried one! You're hating simply because its digital and your buddy said so....no other reason! I have one and i'll take it over a GEN2 all day long! But its all about opinions...you do you man!
You are an analog boomer lol, it outperforms the Pro model by far in a lot of ways.
20 hrs old and already this video didn’t age well.
The opsin is garbage.
Have you tried it? What didn't you like about it?
@@SpecOpsGear it’s barely different from previous models. It is t night vision.
@@tylerschneible584 what previous models? Do you own one?
@@SpecOpsGear I have and compared it to a pro.
@@tylerschneible584 so... it's an aurora in a new housing?
Gen 4 analog is not a thing.
That's a common consensus, but there are also companies marketing gen4 nonetheless. Isn't it also assuming a lot to say that "they" don't have secret sauce that mortals are not aware of? When the US was flying F4 Phantom sorties over Vietnam, we secretly had the SR71; F14 Tomcat, stealth fighter. Is it wise to think that we now have access to the best stuff?
In any case, "gen3" has such a wide range of performance that I don't think it's very useful at this point.
I've used a new old stock gen3 omni that was really dissapointing. On the other end, high fom L3 filmless is so good that it might as well be from a different planet.
Talks about gen 4 analog. Instantly loses all respect for the creator
So... you're in the camp that holds that tubes marketed as gen 4 are simply high fom gen 3?
Also, even if true gen 4 aren't available on the commercial civilian market.... that just means they're out there but their existence is classified.
@@SpecOpsGear Yes, there is no Gen 4 out there. For anyone. Unfilmed WP WAS proposed as the 4th generation of night vision, but there was not enough of a generational improvement from even GP Gen 3 to warrant this. I'd recommend editing that part of the video somehow if possible.
@@SpecOpsGear Hell, anything marketed as Gen 3+ or Gen 4 is likely from a fly-by-night company that doesn't even offer spec sheets before you buy. No way in hell they're high spec by comparison to something like an L3 unfilmed unit.
@@evey0259 the only thing that matters to me is bang for buck seeing in the dark per dollar. Fly by night implies a complete rip off; that's an exaggeration. The mid-grade assemblers that don't give spec sheets and market 3+/4 actually do sell functional units. When i compare high fom hand selected spec sheet filmless tubes to mid grade assemblers i find the difference in quality to be commensurate to the price disparity.
Thus "gen 3+ and 4 is a total scam!!!" is hyperbole. But, you can also argue that a top tier gen 3 equals a mid tier gen3+/4, which to me doesnt really matter much.
BY ANALOGY, you get what you pay for. on one extreme you have anderson and PSA, in the middle you have aero, mid-high is daniel defense, up high is LWRC, LaRue and HK.
Poverty tier tubes suck and the really high end ones suffer from diminishing returns and may be at least partly gucci hype.
@@evey0259 also, do you really think the military doesnt have something better that they're keeping quiet??? If you do think that, how do you square that with the last 80 yrs of military history... we knew about the U2 but the SR71 was beyond classified. Top Gun was flying f14 but we already had the f117 stealth fighter. They have better stuff.
What about opsin
i reviewed one awhile back on my channel
@@SpecOpsGear oh yeah I've seen it like 10 times, and no kidding either.. Great video Can't make up my mind, too expensive for now anyway. Got a pair of echoes and those will have to do for now even if I'm disappointed for the outrageous price I paid. Going to have to go with ir lighting on my next outing, figured might as well try digital
Gen3 is illegal in Italy
Thanks for the reply !
@@skankhunt9078 some people swear by photonis tubes, the ones i have seen have not been as good as gen 3 elbit. The opsin is good if theres over 50% moon but falls off hard in really dark condition