Balrog were fallen Maiar created by Ilúvatar himself. Gandalf bested one of those single handedly in a lesser form. I doubt the spirit of a man imbued with whatever power from a weakened Sauron could overpower a beefed up OG.
This video says it here. Mithrander tells Gimli in no uncertain terms.... that Sauron was the only being in middle earth stronger than his true form. While it was prophesied that no man would defeat the Witch-King.... Gandalf was no man.
The prophecy wasn't about who COULD defeat the Witch King. It was about who was destined to defeat the Witch King. A lot of Tolkien characters could've curbstomped WK (Elrond, Galadriel, Glorfindel, Aragorn, etc). The WK was never actually invulnerable or unbeatable. It was just Eru's plan that he die a specific way. Sauron himself couldn't have destroyed WK if it wasn't part of Eru's plan.
Look at is this way. Eowyn being the one destined to destroy the WK led to her meeting Faramir and Eomer meeting Lothiriel. The prophecy was less about the defeat of the WK than Eru's plan to strengthen the alliance between Gondor and Rohan. At the end of these stories, Numenorean and Elven blood also flowed thru the heirs of Eomer. Elmer and Eowyn's children were also Numenorean nobility.
Gandalf could've defeated him if he wanted to. He took out the Balrog which was far stronger than any Dragon, much less the Witch King. The only being's who was a threat was Sauron, Smaug, possibly the Nameless thing's & a Balrog. There was Shelob, but she wasn't on the scale of creature's like a Balrog or Smaug & she was only after food.
@@similaritiesendhere No I wouldn't put it so, Gollum attacked Frodo & Sam because he knew that Mount Doom was the only place that could've destroyed the ring. He said that before he attacked, plus Frodo was the one that attacked Gollum after he managed to steal the ring back & sent them both off the cliff. Gollum wouldn't jump in purposely & his ashes kept the ring from being consumed until they melted. They were all Halflings, but really Frodo was the one who actually sent it over the cliff along with Gollum almost at the cost of his own life.
I have read a lot of comments and I am pleased with the majority of Tolkien fans. Most of the comments are correct about Gandalf the white. But I believe everyone forgets one important thing he did before the Witch King and him meet at Minas Tirith-he wrestled Sauron himself in magic to protect Frodo when Frodo was at Amon Hen. “Take off the Ring!” It drained Gandalf the White, but if he took on Sauron himself, then what is an amped up Witch King? Let’s say Sauron adds one fourth of his power to Wk making Wk and GtW even in power, Gandalf still has superior equipment (Glamdring and Narya) Sauron took back Wks ring. Also Sauron is no where near what he was in the 2nd age with the One Ring and for that matter neither is the Wk.
I must mention just how amazing impact Ian McKellen and Christopher Lee's roles had on the LOTR-mythology, vast majority of the depictions of Gandalf and Saruman being portrayed through their characters. When acting, actor and the character design is just so perfect it becomes one with the book.
Gandalf the Grey defeated the Balrog in single combat , a being specifically created for combat. I think beyond Sauron, only the Balrog, a Maiar, a demi-god, would have been close in power to Gandalf and Gandalf destroyed it, before he was elevated in power. The Witch King , no matter what extra power he was imbued with by Sauron, was a wraith of a common man, theres no way a Maiar(Sauron) could elevate a common man to power beyond another Maiar (Gandalf). I dont think Glamdring would have been useless, it would have been a conduit with which Gandalf to funnel his power thru. Remember despite whatever prophecies were full-filled by Eowyn, she destroyed the Witch King with a ordinary steel sword.
the thing is: Merry used his dagger which was made in Arnor to render the protection-spells of the Witch-King useless BEFORE Eowyn gave him the final blow. The Dunedain of Arnor made special weapons for that special task-> to fight and destroy the Wraiths created by Sauron/the Witch-King during the time of Angmar (thats why there are still wraiths not unfar of the shire). Glamdring, while being a fantastic sword from Noldorian origin, on the other hand was NOT made for this special purpose.
I think the White Light would have stripped away the WK's protection spells rendering him vulnerable to a common blade let alone Glamdring, wielded by Gandalf!
@@KorithStoneheart I think elrond is a man, but not a Man. At least I think that's the convention Tolkien used. Lower case for gender, upper case for race.
Gandalf the Grey fought the Balrog deep in the Mines of Moria. The Balrog was an elemental demonic spirit, as old as time itself. He fought it on land and deep in the waters, where it became a 'strong giant, strangling snake'. He finally smote it down the mountain, where it disintegrated.
When Gandalf went with Pippin instead of going out on the battlefield he told Pippin that there would be death and destruction and sorrow because of his not going out on the field. After the battle when he found that the king had been killed he knew that it was true. Gandalf believed that he could have and should have taken on the witch king. Would he have won? I don’t think that Gandalf would have been so amped up about going after the witch king if he didn’t think he could do it. It turned out that a young girl and a young hobbit ended up taking him out anyway.
Gandalf rolfstomps witchking. Its not match at all. Gandalf already fought Witchking and his 5 at Weathertop, and he was The grey. And yet we know Gandalf is Maia while witch-king is human black numenor. So all in all, Witch-king power lvl would be more on - pair with Aragorn. Gandalf is more on Galadriel-Sauron-Glorfindel powerlvl.
Gandalf stomps. The reality is Tolkien isn't consistent. You can't have a witch king empowered by a non-ringbearing Sauron defeating a suped-up Maier with an elven ring. Even gil-galad and elendil defeated sauron when he had the ring and gandalf is more powerful than either of those.
Its just speculation that Gil-Galad and Elendil fought Sauron on a 1 vs 2. Elrond tells that, in this final hour, next to those two stood only Isildur, Cirdan and himself. I doubt that they were mere onlookers in this fight that was soooo crucial. Also Isildur tells that he gave the final blow to Sauron and I doubt that honorable Isildur would lie about that.
@@arturleperoke3205 that's actually a good point and it did disappoint me that PJ didn't have at least a 3v1 in the opening to the FotR rather than just isildur getting in a sucker punch. I still think in a 1v1 Gandalf vs WK Gandalf has to be the favorite. It's not clear to me either that Glamdring wouldn't be of use against the WK. The point about the Westernesse blade is it was created by men so it had to be specifically designed to face the WK. Gandalfs sword was elven and so was likely to be effective anyway. And then of course there's the one wielding it!
@@stephenglasse9756 hey man, I totally agree with you that Gandalf IS up in the match-up between him and WK. He IS bad-ass after all. IMO most fan-comments are just too much biased by emotions towards favorite characters to give the WK due credit - and believe me: I admire Gandalf myself. (Your comment is much more reasonable than most, so thats why I picked your comment.) The WK is more than a formidable foe and muuuuuch too underrated - as much as his master: he is always reduced to the comparison of Melkor vs. Sauron ,where he lacks sheer (as I call it "biceps") power - utterly disregarding the strategic, conspiring, deceiving and manipulating traits of a true grown-up villian.
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 well one would want to know how Tolkien supported that. Sauron was still in possession of the ring and unharmed in himself. I guess one could argue that the ring gave power over the minds of others eg orcs but it didn't increase saurons power in hand to hand combat so he was still outnumbered and vulnerable to a combined attack from elendil gilgalad (and possibly isildur and elrond as well). I guess if one was to assert that the WK had a real chance against gandalf one would have to emphasize that gandalf wasn't just up against the WK but the WK+sauron+the other 8 nazgul+the armies of Mordor so that the combined powers fed the WK. (Where were the nazgul when elendil andl gilgalad faced sauron)
I'm quite disappointed by this video. In all your previous ones I've watched you let the lore guide you to outcomes, and it was most refreshing. However, in this you diverge to your own opinion at critical junctures to justify an outcome... Firstly, as many have mentioned Glamdring the sword of the King of Gondolin was forged to directly oppose Morgoth for the hand of the son of Fingolfin; he who fought Morgoth and wounded him in single combat. This mighty sword was crafted by the Noldor whose oath bound them to be eternal foes of Morgoth whilst he held the Silmarils. Furthermore, to imply that such a weapon forged to potentially harm Morgoth himself could not harm a pawn of a servant of the original Dark Lord is a mighty stretch. Additionally, you point out yourself Tolkiens actual words; and I quote, "dangerous, and so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord." The implication that he stands above any other evil doer besides the Dark Lord, and perhaps even all others in Middle Earth, is certainly feasible. Now, you also state that the ring of fire held no advantage, this is not backed up by lore whilst Sauron was bereft of the One Ring. Also you imply that Olorin (Gandalf) gained his ability to be in the 'shadow realm' like the elves from being a once dweller in the Undying Lands, this is categorically false. Indeed as you said Gandalf is himself a Maiar spirit, one of the Ainur and is an 'agelic' being older the world itself; he did not gain his spiritual presence in the 'shadow realm' by living in Valinor. That is what is known of the lore, and so I submit you put your conclusions on inventive facts rather than loreful ones. What do we know outside of this? We know that Gandalf before his power was greatly increased faced and destroyed a Balrog, a fellow Maiar empowered and bound by Morgoth, foes that drove even Ungoliant away though in number. Additionally, Gandalf the White's power was so increased that he broke the staff of Saruman and overpowered him easily post his encounter with the dread Balrog, a foe he could not defeat with his previous self's power. Based on these loreful events I would present that there is only one solution, and that it is a VICTORY for Gandalf the White! 🧙♂
Don’t agree with your conclusion. Gandalf the grey beat a balrog one v one. I don’t see the witch king doing the same. Gandalf is a maiar, the witch king is a mortal with a lesser ring of power. Gandalf would have had a fight on his hands but 1v1 it’s Gandalf the white every time.
I think part of the reasoning behind his conclusion comes from the fact that Gandolph had no real way to harm the Witch King. Only Merry had the blade that could make vulnerable. But the Witch Kings weapons couhurt Gandolph.
Gandalf is as strong as Illuvatar wants him to be , If he was given full authority then we are talking about an angel vs a lesser evil not even Sauron. If he was empowered by Eru specifically to ensure Middle Earth's survival it safe to say Gandalf secret reserves of power if need be whould be beyond what Sauron can empower. We are talking about a Gandalf who shattered Saruman's staff like it was nothing.
Remember that letter of Tolkien where he said that the Witch-king had been further empowered by Sauron. And maybe (I don't remember) the Witch-king still had his ring of power, which was tied to the one ring itself. Or he was still somehow empowered by that ring, even if it was held again by Sauron (and maybe THAT would make him more powerful too).
From my understanding, in Return of the King Gandalf the White tells Pippin that he isn't sure if he's ready to take on the Witch-King. I feel Sauron had intended for the Witch-King to be the tool to take Gandalf out of the equation. Sauron was so focused on Minas Tirth that the Rohirrim coming screwed this up, since Sauron's intent was for the Orc army he sent to delay/prevent Rohan from coming. Sauron was a little ego driven and a pretty crappy war planner. He overlooked at least two peoples of Middle Earth- Hobbits and the Wild Men. The wild men thwarted his attack and downfall of Rohan, and the little hobbitses of the Shire, well ... We know that they did incredible things to aid and further the advancement of the West in defeating Sauron.
I disagree, because I don’t think Gandalf would have been alone. Pippin had come looking for him and would not have fled. He’d have cowered, but like Merry, he’d have struck when given an opening.
I think that you are wrong about the witch king winning because evil never wins that's just part of All things in life good always finds a way to triumph over evil
Great video and artwork , having said that i think Glamdring was enchanted seeing how when he faced off against Durin’s Bane when there swords ⚔️ clashed his(Durin’s Bane) shattered and Glamdring did not, and don’t forget it was the sword of Turgon the King of the hidden city of Gondolin so , in my imagination, it was enchanted plus The Witch King was still just a man love your channel and content keep ‘em coming LOVE ALL Tolkien Lore!
Given that gandalf had already defeated a balrog singlehand before his powers were increased as had glofindel, it stands to reason he would likely defeat the witch king though likely suffer grave injury.
I respectfully disagree. You neglected to consider Gandalf's power of infinite resurrection. He doesn't stay dead, ever. He just returns with a power increase to finish the mission. Gandalf only has to kill the Witch-King once. He has infinitely many tries. There is no universe where Gandalf is allowed to perish and stay dead forever. He can't rest until he finishes his task. In that sense, the Witch-King has no weapon that can truly affect Gandalf. There is no way to inflict a permanent death unless Gandalf is persuaded to betray his mission, which isn't going to happen.
This video is well-researched, but it is hard to believe that Gandalf is any less a threat to the Witch-King than Eowyn and Merry, who actually defeated him. Yes, they had a weapon designed to be a particular threat to the Nazgul, but Gandalf was far more powerful upon his return. Tolkien has Gandalf speak his doubts about facing him to Pippen, but this is more the amplify the dread and uncertainty in the mind of the reader. In practical result, the Witch King is defeated by individuals with no supernatural powers. This points towards something worth noting about Tolkien's works: the power of individuals is not simply in strength of arms, but also in the will to resist, and something akin to spiritual wisdom or fortitude. I do not think Gandalf was inferior to Merry and Eowyn in either regard, orchestrating pretty much the entirety of resistance against Sauron upon his return and knowing better than anyone what the Nazgul really were and what weaknesses they might possess.
Gandal eats the Witch King alive. He is as strong as Sauron and has one of the elven rings, it's not much of a fight to be honest. And Glamdring is a blade forged in Gondolin in the first blade. Fingolfin's elven blade managed to maim Morgoth, the master of Sauron, it would maim a petty wringwright as well.
@@brucewayne2558 Gandalf (might want to fix your spelling there) is one of the Maiar, same type of being as Sauron. Think of them as angels. The Ainur were the angelic beings in service to Eru Iluvatar (God, more or less). They helped shape all of creation. Both Gandalf and Sauron have existed since before time began, and had a hand in the creation of Arda (the world of Middle Earth). The Ainur were divided up into what could be described as lesser and greater choirs of angels. The greater choir of angels was the Valar, and were beings of such immense power that many cultures would probably consider them to be gods themselves. The lesser choir of angels was the Maiar, to which both Gandalf and Sauron belonged (as well as the Balrogs), and were in service to the Valar. Now, it is true that among the Maiar, Sauron was chief in power and status, so it's a reasonable argument that he surpassed Gandalf in strength. However, Sauron's power was also greatly diminished from his original incarnation, having lost the ability to shapeshift, then eventually to even take a corporeal form beyond an extremely weak one barely capable of existence. Had the Ring been restored to him, Sauron would likely have surpassed Gandalf the White once more, but since Sauron's power had been broken at Dol Guldur by the White Council (when he was the Necromancer) and Gandalf had arisen in power and status to the leader of the Istari (wizards), it's equally reasonable to suggest that at that point in the War of the Ring, Gandalf actually was equal in power to Sauron (though Sauron was certainly the greater overall threat, given the circumstances).
@@brucewayne2558 Uh, not necessarily, for the reasons I laid out. And it's GandALF. Not Gandolph. No such character exists in Tolkien's works. When providing a response, please make it either an acknowledgement or refutation of my rebuttal, rather than doggedly repeating what you said initially. The definite point where Sauron was stronger than Gandalf is a matter of mustering forces. Sauron had a seemingly endless supply of orcs at his command, not to mention the alliance of the Haradrim, men of the southern lands, Uruk-hai, etc. In terms of armies, he had the far superior numbers. However, that isn't to what I'm referring. I'm referring more to individual power. Ringless Sauron's main power was his influence and manipulation over weaker races. Gandalf's true power was never really seen, as the character believed in restraint and understatement in terms of magic use. While he did fight valiantly in the War of the Ring, the truth is that he never did or indeed could have displayed the full height of his power. Had he simply unleashed the full amount of power to which he was capable, it is likely that he could have destroyed a massive amount of Sauron's forces, but with the cost of destroying a fatal amount of the forces of good as collateral damage. P.S. As I laid out in my initial response, Sauron in the First Age would indeed have been FAR more powerful than Gandalf. However, much of his power was lost and diminished since that time, mostly due to his own actions.
Gandalf the grey might have had some trouble(or might not have; after all he battled ALL NINE Nazghul ALL NIGHT on Weathertop 3 days before Aragorn and the Hobbits made it there; and he drew off 4 of them so that only 5(including the Witch king) were left to attack them)) but Gandalf the White, as the new leader of the White Council, and sent back to middle earth with more of his native power unlocked, would DEFINITELY have killed the Witch King or at least forced him to flee the field if not outright killing him. Gandalf and the other wizards may have the bodies of the elderly of the race of Men when they are in middle earth, but they are Maiar in reality, VERY mighty spirits that were there at the creation of the world, and their powers are great; and its why Gandalf, Sarumen and the other Istari are Immortal DESPITE having the bodies of Men. And like I'm sure others have said; The only being that can match and defeat Gandalf after he becomes 'The White" is Sauron himself in person. Not any of his servants not even a powered up Witch King like we see in the siege of Minas Tirith. Gandalfs native magic, esp when the witch king doesnt have the other 8 nazghul with him to assist, and swordplay, would have killed the Witch King in single combat. Though I think WitchKing would have made a fight out of it for sure; Sauron had grown stronger by that point and was putting forth all his strength; that includes powering up his servants ESPECIALLY the Nine Nazghul, who rise or fall with their master, as the books say. Their power is directly proportionate to how powerful Sauron himself is, because their Spirits are bound forever to Sauron; and while all Nine Nazghul have their own Rings of Power(the Nine rings Sauron gave to Men), Gandalf both has his own Ring(The Elven Ring of Fire) ANd Gandalf has POWERFUL native magic based on his spirit being that of a Maiar. That's why he's able to effortlessly use powerful magic like Words of Power and Songs of Power even without using his Elven ring. Gandalfs Elven Ring assists primarily for Fire(for combat purposes like when he battled all nine nazghul; or when the Wargs attacked the Fellowship in the wild after they failed to cross the mountain Caradhras and Gandalf goes nuts with his fire magic burning everything including many of the wargs or else slaying them with his sword glamdring); and the Elven Ring is also great at Raising the Morale and Fighting Spirit of Gandalfs Allies, and lessening the Morale of his enemies and putting fear in them; and the latter power is what all the Great Rings have in addition to giving immortality(and, to mortals at least, invisibility, like the Nazghul or Frodo and bilbo or Sam with the one Ring).
Gandalf the grey could have beaten the witch king. Aragorn chased him off with a torch and a sword. Gandalf the grey slew a balrog. As Gandalf the white he would make quick work of him
But I think that was before the Witch King was enhanced. I feel the Witch King was a far lesser and inferior being to Gandalf the White. HOWEVER, it seems like he may have been a secret weapon designed entirely for taking him out in this scenario. We know in the lore of Tolkien that higher beings are not immune to the plots of those beneath them, for example an Eagle injures Morgoth, a Valar, as did Fingolfin 7 times. And it is implied that even Beren could injure him. We see many stories of lower beings overpowering stronger ones especially through the use of enchanted items, for example, the destruction of Smaug in the Hobbit. One last consideration is that like Morgoth, but to an even higher degree, Sauron seemed to be reaching a dark understanding of the nature of Arda and creative methods of Eru over time. While they could never replicate it, I think Sauron may have had a decent understanding of the nature of the Valor and Maiar to know the correct sorcery to combat them. Indeed, "Sorcery" in this universe seems entirely founded on this school of elicit and corrupt control of Eru's creation. It is possible for the Witch King to injure or even kill Gandalf through a similar plot, although I don't think it would do much good since he'd likely just get sent back again.
Aragorn didn’t chase the witch king off with a torch, the WK already achieved what he needed by stabbing Frodo with a morghul blade which would turn Frodo into a wraith and deliver the ring straight to WK. And he wasn’t scared of Aragorn he was scared of the Barrow blades and didn’t want to hang around long enough for it to be used.
Imagine this… Gandalf and the men of Gondor wait as Grond hammers against the Door. But it is useless as the gate is far too strong to be broken by mere orcs. Suddenly the wizard senses a dark presence beyond that door. One that feels greater than any he has felt before barring Saruman and the Dark Lord himself. And though still weaker than him, something about it feels, it feels …familiar? Just then the gate starts changing. The wood begins to become darker, greener. Rotting away, almost. While the metal bars start turning orange and brown. Rusting at a rapid pace. “The Door” a soldier yelled. “What’s happening to the gate” another from the archer one chimed in. Gandalf can sense a weakening spell being used. “Someone is using magic, weakening the gate” the white wizard replied. And then Grond broke through. “You are soldiers of Gondor” Gandalf began, Grond being drawn back afterwards, “No matter what comes through that gate, you will stand your ground!” Then the gate smashed open with some parts even being torn off the hinges. Pieces flew everywhere and there was a cloud of dust obscuring all sight beyond the gate. Until the was a strange sound reminiscent of a sword being unsheathed and another strange sound as suddenly a stream of flame and two red orbs become visible through the cloud. Fear and dread filled the area as all knew who that was. The stream seemed to move forward as if it was being held eventually a tall, crowned silhouette was becoming more and more visible. Out from the cloud stood the over 7-foot-tall familiar figure clad in dark armor, dark robes, and a helmet with a crown mockingly adorned atop and a large 2 handed longsword with a flaming blade. The Witch King of Angmar had come. “Fire Volley” the captain yelled. But the Lord of the Nazgûl just blacked it with his hand. He then swung his flaming long sword sending fire at the Gondorian line. Only for Gandalf the White to trap the blaze with his staff and fire it back. But it was moot for the Witch King merely stood in the blaze before drawing the fire into his free arm and then hovering his hand over the blade reigniting its flame. Steadfast and unafraid, Gandalf atop Shadowfax rose his staff. “Go back to the abyss prepared for you” he declared! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your master! Go!” The King of Angmar, from a mouth unseen, gave a deadly laughter. “Old fool” it said. Old fool, this is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain.” A voice of conquerors echoed for all to hear. “Let’s make this interesting” I The revenant said ominously with the coldness of iron. It then brought it’s flaming blade up. The wizard felt power at play but before he could act his staff was spontaneously destroyed. This scared the Lord of Horses knocking Gandalf off and Shadowfax ran off. The right hand of Sauron brought his burning blade down, pointing at Gandalf and cried in challenge “Face me, Wizard!” Show you are more than magic wisdom and knowledge! Show to all that the great wizards are more that cheap parlor tricks, senseless babbling, and useless information! On your feet old man!” As the new white wizard got up, he replied to his challenger. “Are you certain? For I am no mere wizard. Not anymore. I am the herald of Eru Illuvitar himself, and I surpass you in all power your master has and hasn’t given you.” He drew Glamdring as he finished. The Witch King drew his sword down. “But are a true warrior?” I have spent more than an age warring and conquering.” I have faced greater foes and fighters that I and won. Have you?” There was silence… “This is how it shall be… you and I. No magic, no interventions, no backup, just two warriors and the divine symphony of swords dueling.” Gandalf quitly enacted two spells upon his trusted blade. A spell of banishment, and a aura of blue light to match his malevolent flame. The wizard only said three words, “So be it.” Imagine Gandalf with Ian McKellens vioce and the Witch Kings with the Iron Revenant from League of Legends voice.
Heh, heh, an interesting and toyful consideration my friend but your final conclusion (which I think you know) is assuredly inaccurate. Regardless of the powers invested in the Witch King, he was still born of Mortal stock. As you mentioned, most of the powers the Nazgul possessed either individually or together, was dependent on fear and terror. Gandalf had neither in their presence and displayed his contempt for them often. Gandalf was a Maiar who had already defeated one of his own level (the Balrog) even before his elevation upon rebirth. Though a confrontation with Sauron would have proven harrowing, against the Witch King, I highly doubt he would have been overwhelmed. Also, Gandalf was "no man" as again, being Maia, he was far more. So he could still meet Glorfindel's prediction. Anyway, fun vid to view, so thanks for that!
Outstanding video! Very refreshing to hear a well informed opinion based on facts rather than on love for their favorite character. There are lots of examples in Tolkiens works, LotR and Silmarillion( though I would not give too much credit too the S) where the underdog outperforms the "stronger" opponent. With all the might/experience/cunning of the Witch-King and his Master I would NEVER imagine the confrontation to be a one-sided event even if I see Gandalf narrowly prevailing. Just ask yourself: why would Sauron, a master of strategy and planing, who knew Gandalf from Valinor, patiently wait for thousands of years, build up his empire, then power up his most valuable servant if he would have imagined the WK to not be able to kill Gandalf? And yes, Sauron knew Gandalf was in Minas Tirith, who else would have dispersed the Nazguls to rescue Faramir?
@@stephenglasse9756 THAT my friend, is truly a good point I never heard of before! Maybe Sauron DID power up the WK to the level where he could confidently take on GtG but did not know that he was already elevated to GtW! Regarding G´s resurrection: I guess that when G rescued Faramir from his suicide mission by dispersing the lesser Nazgul he revealed himself to Sauron, but that is (as much in LotR) not a proof but a indication. I guess he never got any news of G´s showdown against Durins Bane so he assumed he was GtG all along.
Dude you’re so slow moss is growing. It’s painful, agonizing in fact. I know it’s mostly naturally your speaking handicap but I know you can pep up your narration a bit and talk a bit faster. I’d you do I promise to stop leaving dislikes.
Gandalf, as the White, was essentially at the apex of his true power and knowledge. Being resurrected by Eru Illuvâtar Himself, he is much more stronger than he was before, to the point where he battled Sauron's Eye to prevent Frodo's location from being known (which is not an easy feat). This, in terms of power rivals, if not, surpasses Sauron.
I wonder how powerful Gandalf would have been if he were sent back as a 22 year old man or elf instead of an old man. Not fully powered up but if he was meant to actually be a formidable instead of weak.
@@andyknightwarden9746 I thought he just said they feel tired and stuff like regular men. I mean a young man definitely doesn’t get as tired as an older man. I mean yeah I get that he’s a wizard and it’s not a big deal but I’m just wondering if what Gandalf would have been like if they had him come back as a young numenorian or elf like Legolas. Instead of just being an advisor but a fighter. Gotta be more bad ass.
@@forfun6273 you can't really be more badass than he already was. Gandalf the White was the strongest thing there outside of Sauron, bar none. Gandalf has been working against the machinations of sauron for hundreds if not thousands of years by this point, of course he's tired.
Their appearance was only that of an old man. I think this was intentional since if they looked like young men they would be too similar to elves who always appear young, but wise beyond mortal years. Also, men would not follow or give heed to any young man, and maybe not an elf, but an older wise-appearing man, yeah they would probably listen to.
@@jimmyboy131 Agree totally. This is evidenced by Theoden disregarding Aragorn's advice, even with Aragorn being the elder of the two, despite his more youthful appearance.
That's because Merry had a blade of Westernesse, which was endowed specifically to harm the Nazgul. Once he stabbed the leg of the Witch-king that broke his protective spells, which Gandalf may or may not have been able to do, or to do quickly or easily enough during a confrontation. That's the only reason why Eowyn was able to stab him with her sword. In and of themselves Eowyn and Merry are no more of a threat than any other mortal, so Eowyn/Merry do nothing at all to Gandalf, even if Merry stabs him with his Numenorean blade.
Why would Eru Iluvatar a being outside of time, send Gandalf back and not give him enough power to win a fight? Gandalf couldn’t have lost this fight in any scenario, night or even in Mordor because, he was gifted strength from a bottomless supply.
Nah, Gandalf would take it. Most of Sauron's power got sealed into the ring. Gandalf had a similar power hack in white form (but legal). Loki said it best: "I am a God, you dull creature!"
Elendil was a numenorean from the line of kings who went toe to toe with Sauron. The WK is also a numenorean from the line of kings, but thousands of years old, powered up by a ring of men, stronger from the powers of a Nazgûl then powered up again by Sauron. He would then go on to fight Gandalf a maiar who had been gifted power but was still not as strong as Sauron even without the one ring, I can see the witch king winning this. Gandalf beat the balrog by a fall and still died he was by no means the greatest fighter. I think people like glorfindel are better fighters than Gandalf.
Gandalf would definitely win because as you say, if Gandalf loses then Sauron wins and covers all the land in a second darkness up until the breaking of the world. That doesn't work. Why? Because the will of the One God Iluvatar always triumphs. If the Witch King wins in a one on one fight scenario then one of the base things that Iluvatar willed WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, and that is the upcoming dominion of men. Remember LotR is written like a history book. It's not written as a "sit on the edge of your seat wondering if the good guys will win" scenario. It's written as history that has already happened and is a documentation of HOW the good guys won. People tend to forget that for some reason.
You do bring up a good point. You approach this question from a different perspective than we did in this video, though we do mention this very point in "Why were there no guards at Mount Doom?" ua-cam.com/video/O7wctocizn4/v-deo.html We think it would be a bit of an unsatisfactory conclusion to come to in the main video itself, but we are very happy you brought it up in this comment!
@@MysteriesOfWesternesse This is Incorrect, a very narrow view and assessment of the directives of Eru, which were never linear and straightforward. Furthermore, even if the fellowship had failed and middle earth fell to Sauron it does not mean men would not rise and evil would not be defeated. Remember before the War of Wrath Morgoth had conquered Middle Earth. Only after the intervention of Valinor was Middle earth once again delivered. Do you truly believe that they would not have interceded again to preserve the will of Eru if it was required? There are videos on this speculation that are very good, feel free to watch them. Now as to your point on surface value, it's wrong as Gandalf didn't fight the Witch King and men still rose to perform their role. Ergo, the supposition that he had to win or history wouldn't happen is without cause. As for the Lord of the Rings being a 'history book' no it is not. It was created to be a mythology for England that was bereft of one, and was written to that effect and in that style, as a 'mythology' there is a vast difference!
Hot take: the whole patriarchy perspective is just one possible perspective. Tolkien created a fully fledged-out world, in which there are many cultures, and thus also many different social structures. Yes, many of the cultures in Middle-earth are, as per our present definitions, patriarchies, but there were also plenty of cultures described where women held the dominant vote, as well as plenty where women and men were politically equal, like for example Haleth in the First Age: she was the daughter of the chieftain Haldad, and should, in a proper patriarchy, have been passed over for the leadership role in favour of her brother's son, Haldan (or at most have been made his regent for but a few years). Instead, she became the chieftainess proper, even to the point that her clan would foreverafter be named "the House of Haleth". The world is vast and complex. To summarise it all in just one sentence would be an injustice.
Balrog were fallen Maiar created by Ilúvatar himself. Gandalf bested one of those single handedly in a lesser form. I doubt the spirit of a man imbued with whatever power from a weakened Sauron could overpower a beefed up OG.
This video says it here. Mithrander tells Gimli in no uncertain terms.... that Sauron was the only being in middle earth stronger than his true form. While it was prophesied that no man would defeat the Witch-King.... Gandalf was no man.
The prophecy wasn't about who COULD defeat the Witch King. It was about who was destined to defeat the Witch King.
A lot of Tolkien characters could've curbstomped WK (Elrond, Galadriel, Glorfindel, Aragorn, etc). The WK was never actually invulnerable or unbeatable. It was just Eru's plan that he die a specific way.
Sauron himself couldn't have destroyed WK if it wasn't part of Eru's plan.
Look at is this way. Eowyn being the one destined to destroy the WK led to her meeting Faramir and Eomer meeting Lothiriel.
The prophecy was less about the defeat of the WK than Eru's plan to strengthen the alliance between Gondor and Rohan. At the end of these stories, Numenorean and Elven blood also flowed thru the heirs of Eomer. Elmer and Eowyn's children were also Numenorean nobility.
Gandalf could've defeated him if he wanted to.
He took out the Balrog which was far stronger than any Dragon, much less the Witch King.
The only being's who was a threat was Sauron, Smaug, possibly the Nameless thing's & a Balrog.
There was Shelob, but she wasn't on the scale of creature's like a Balrog or Smaug & she was only after food.
@@brantleyfoster021 Gollum destroyed Sauron by accident. The whole point is that prophecy/destiny > power levels in all of Tolkien's works.
@@similaritiesendhere
No I wouldn't put it so, Gollum attacked Frodo & Sam because he knew that Mount Doom was the only place that could've destroyed the ring.
He said that before he attacked, plus Frodo was the one that attacked Gollum after he managed to steal the ring back & sent them both off the cliff.
Gollum wouldn't jump in purposely & his ashes kept the ring from being consumed until they melted.
They were all Halflings, but really Frodo was the one who actually sent it over the cliff along with Gollum almost at the cost of his own life.
I have read a lot of comments and I am pleased with the majority of Tolkien fans. Most of the comments are correct about Gandalf the white. But I believe everyone forgets one important thing he did before the Witch King and him meet at Minas Tirith-he wrestled Sauron himself in magic to protect Frodo when Frodo was at Amon Hen. “Take off the Ring!”
It drained Gandalf the White, but if he took on Sauron himself, then what is an amped up Witch King?
Let’s say Sauron adds one fourth of his power to Wk making Wk and GtW even in power, Gandalf still has superior equipment (Glamdring and Narya) Sauron took back Wks ring. Also Sauron is no where near what he was in the 2nd age with the One Ring and for that matter neither is the Wk.
Gandalf fought all 9 on weather top 4 riders followed him when he left which is why there was only 5 when Frodo and the others arrived
Case closed.
I must mention just how amazing impact Ian McKellen and Christopher Lee's roles had on the LOTR-mythology, vast majority of the depictions of Gandalf and Saruman being portrayed through their characters. When acting, actor and the character design is just so perfect it becomes one with the book.
Gandalf the Grey defeated the Balrog in single combat , a being specifically created for combat. I think beyond Sauron, only the Balrog, a Maiar, a demi-god, would have been close in power to Gandalf and Gandalf destroyed it, before he was elevated in power. The Witch King , no matter what extra power he was imbued with by Sauron, was a wraith of a common man, theres no way a Maiar(Sauron) could elevate a common man to power beyond another Maiar (Gandalf).
I dont think Glamdring would have been useless, it would have been a conduit with which Gandalf to funnel his power thru. Remember despite whatever prophecies were full-filled by Eowyn, she destroyed the Witch King with a ordinary steel sword.
Also Sauron was weaker, becouse he doesnt had his ring at this time.
the thing is: Merry used his dagger which was made in Arnor to render the protection-spells of the Witch-King useless BEFORE Eowyn gave him the final blow. The Dunedain of Arnor made special weapons for that special task-> to fight and destroy the Wraiths created by Sauron/the Witch-King during the time of Angmar (thats why there are still wraiths not unfar of the shire).
Glamdring, while being a fantastic sword from Noldorian origin, on the other hand was NOT made for this special purpose.
I think the White Light would have stripped away the WK's protection spells rendering him vulnerable to a common blade let alone Glamdring, wielded by Gandalf!
I agree with what you said and taking it further I think Elrond could have defeated the witch-king as well. He's not a man, he's an elf
@@KorithStoneheart I think elrond is a man, but not a Man. At least I think that's the convention Tolkien used. Lower case for gender, upper case for race.
Gandalf the Grey fought the Balrog deep in the Mines of Moria. The Balrog was an elemental demonic spirit, as old as time itself. He fought it on land and deep in the waters, where it became a 'strong giant, strangling snake'. He finally smote it down the mountain, where it disintegrated.
the Balrog was another maia
And he did that not even in his true form. Just imagine him UNLEASHED!
When Gandalf went with Pippin instead of going out on the battlefield he told Pippin that there would be death and destruction and sorrow because of his not going out on the field. After the battle when he found that the king had been killed he knew that it was true. Gandalf believed that he could have and should have taken on the witch king. Would he have won? I don’t think that Gandalf would have been so amped up about going after the witch king if he didn’t think he could do it. It turned out that a young girl and a young hobbit ended up taking him out anyway.
Merry: "Hold my ale"
Éowyn: "I gochu fam"
I loved your analysis but don't agree with your conclusion. The only being stronger the Gandalf in Middle Earth was Sauron.
Gandalf rolfstomps witchking. Its not match at all. Gandalf already fought Witchking and his 5 at Weathertop, and he was The grey. And yet we know Gandalf is Maia while witch-king is human black numenor. So all in all, Witch-king power lvl would be more on - pair with Aragorn. Gandalf is more on Galadriel-Sauron-Glorfindel powerlvl.
Gandalf stomps. The reality is Tolkien isn't consistent. You can't have a witch king empowered by a non-ringbearing Sauron defeating a suped-up Maier with an elven ring. Even gil-galad and elendil defeated sauron when he had the ring and gandalf is more powerful than either of those.
Its just speculation that Gil-Galad and Elendil fought Sauron on a 1 vs 2. Elrond tells that, in this final hour, next to those two stood only Isildur, Cirdan and himself. I doubt that they were mere onlookers in this fight that was soooo crucial. Also Isildur tells that he gave the final blow to Sauron and I doubt that honorable Isildur would lie about that.
@@arturleperoke3205 that's actually a good point and it did disappoint me that PJ didn't have at least a 3v1 in the opening to the FotR rather than just isildur getting in a sucker punch.
I still think in a 1v1 Gandalf vs WK Gandalf has to be the favorite. It's not clear to me either that Glamdring wouldn't be of use against the WK. The point about the Westernesse blade is it was created by men so it had to be specifically designed to face the WK. Gandalfs sword was elven and so was likely to be effective anyway. And then of course there's the one wielding it!
@@stephenglasse9756 hey man, I totally agree with you that Gandalf IS up in the match-up between him and WK. He IS bad-ass after all.
IMO most fan-comments are just too much biased by emotions towards favorite characters to give the WK due credit - and believe me: I admire Gandalf myself. (Your comment is much more reasonable than most, so thats why I picked your comment.)
The WK is more than a formidable foe and muuuuuch too underrated - as much as his master: he is always reduced to the comparison of Melkor vs. Sauron ,where he lacks sheer (as I call it "biceps") power - utterly disregarding the strategic, conspiring, deceiving and manipulating traits of a true grown-up villian.
Tolkien told us he was at his weakest when he faced Gil and Elendil so I am not sure this really matters
@@oguzhanenescetin5702 well one would want to know how Tolkien supported that. Sauron was still in possession of the ring and unharmed in himself. I guess one could argue that the ring gave power over the minds of others eg orcs but it didn't increase saurons power in hand to hand combat so he was still outnumbered and vulnerable to a combined attack from elendil gilgalad (and possibly isildur and elrond as well).
I guess if one was to assert that the WK had a real chance against gandalf one would have to emphasize that gandalf wasn't just up against the WK but the WK+sauron+the other 8 nazgul+the armies of Mordor so that the combined powers fed the WK. (Where were the nazgul when elendil andl gilgalad faced sauron)
I'm quite disappointed by this video. In all your previous ones I've watched you let the lore guide you to outcomes, and it was most refreshing. However, in this you diverge to your own opinion at critical junctures to justify an outcome...
Firstly, as many have mentioned Glamdring the sword of the King of Gondolin was forged to directly oppose Morgoth for the hand of the son of Fingolfin; he who fought Morgoth and wounded him in single combat. This mighty sword was crafted by the Noldor whose oath bound them to be eternal foes of Morgoth whilst he held the Silmarils.
Furthermore, to imply that such a weapon forged to potentially harm Morgoth himself could not harm a pawn of a servant of the original Dark Lord is a mighty stretch.
Additionally, you point out yourself Tolkiens actual words; and I quote, "dangerous, and so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord." The implication that he stands above any other evil doer besides the Dark Lord, and perhaps even all others in Middle Earth, is certainly feasible.
Now, you also state that the ring of fire held no advantage, this is not backed up by lore whilst Sauron was bereft of the One Ring. Also you imply that Olorin (Gandalf) gained his ability to be in the 'shadow realm' like the elves from being a once dweller in the Undying Lands, this is categorically false. Indeed as you said Gandalf is himself a Maiar spirit, one of the Ainur and is an 'agelic' being older the world itself; he did not gain his spiritual presence in the 'shadow realm' by living in Valinor.
That is what is known of the lore, and so I submit you put your conclusions on inventive facts rather than loreful ones. What do we know outside of this? We know that Gandalf before his power was greatly increased faced and destroyed a Balrog, a fellow Maiar empowered and bound by Morgoth, foes that drove even Ungoliant away though in number. Additionally, Gandalf the White's power was so increased that he broke the staff of Saruman and overpowered him easily post his encounter with the dread Balrog, a foe he could not defeat with his previous self's power.
Based on these loreful events I would present that there is only one solution, and that it is a VICTORY for Gandalf the White! 🧙♂
Don’t agree with your conclusion. Gandalf the grey beat a balrog one v one. I don’t see the witch king doing the same. Gandalf is a maiar, the witch king is a mortal with a lesser ring of power. Gandalf would have had a fight on his hands but 1v1 it’s Gandalf the white every time.
I think part of the reasoning behind his conclusion comes from the fact that Gandolph had no real way to harm the Witch King. Only Merry had the blade that could make vulnerable. But the Witch Kings weapons couhurt Gandolph.
Gandalf is as strong as Illuvatar wants him to be , If he was given full authority then we are talking about an angel vs a lesser evil not even Sauron.
If he was empowered by Eru specifically to ensure Middle Earth's survival it safe to say Gandalf secret reserves of power if need be whould be beyond what Sauron can empower.
We are talking about a Gandalf who shattered Saruman's staff like it was nothing.
Gandalf was a maiar. After he became gandalf the white the WK was no match.
i don't think this is accurate. Gandalf reborn was beyond any foe aside from sauron himself.
Remember that letter of Tolkien where he said that the Witch-king had been further empowered by Sauron. And maybe (I don't remember) the Witch-king still had his ring of power, which was tied to the one ring itself. Or he was still somehow empowered by that ring, even if it was held again by Sauron (and maybe THAT would make him more powerful too).
@@jimmyboy131 remember, only reason Gandalf did not wreck him where he stood....Eru forbade it. Everyone seems to miss that.
From my understanding, in Return of the King Gandalf the White tells Pippin that he isn't sure if he's ready to take on the Witch-King. I feel Sauron had intended for the Witch-King to be the tool to take Gandalf out of the equation. Sauron was so focused on Minas Tirth that the Rohirrim coming screwed this up, since Sauron's intent was for the Orc army he sent to delay/prevent Rohan from coming.
Sauron was a little ego driven and a pretty crappy war planner. He overlooked at least two peoples of Middle Earth- Hobbits and the Wild Men. The wild men thwarted his attack and downfall of Rohan, and the little hobbitses of the Shire, well ... We know that they did incredible things to aid and further the advancement of the West in defeating Sauron.
Great video keep up the good work
I disagree, because I don’t think Gandalf would have been alone. Pippin had come looking for him and would not have fled. He’d have cowered, but like Merry, he’d have struck when given an opening.
Excellent point.
Gandalf is a mightier being with a more powerful ring. What more need be said?
Gandalf, he is not a man, he is maiar.
I think that you are wrong about the witch king winning because evil never wins that's just part of All things in life good always finds a way to triumph over evil
Great video and artwork , having said that i think Glamdring was enchanted seeing how when he faced off against Durin’s Bane when there swords ⚔️ clashed his(Durin’s Bane) shattered and Glamdring did not, and don’t forget it was the sword of Turgon the King of the hidden city of Gondolin so , in my imagination, it was enchanted plus The Witch King was still just a man love your channel and content keep ‘em coming LOVE ALL Tolkien Lore!
Given that gandalf had already defeated a balrog singlehand before his powers were increased as had glofindel, it stands to reason he would likely defeat the witch king though likely suffer grave injury.
I respectfully disagree. You neglected to consider Gandalf's power of infinite resurrection. He doesn't stay dead, ever. He just returns with a power increase to finish the mission.
Gandalf only has to kill the Witch-King once. He has infinitely many tries. There is no universe where Gandalf is allowed to perish and stay dead forever. He can't rest until he finishes his task.
In that sense, the Witch-King has no weapon that can truly affect Gandalf. There is no way to inflict a permanent death unless Gandalf is persuaded to betray his mission, which isn't going to happen.
If all hope for mortals did fail the valar may have intervened again in some way
This video is well-researched, but it is hard to believe that Gandalf is any less a threat to the Witch-King than Eowyn and Merry, who actually defeated him. Yes, they had a weapon designed to be a particular threat to the Nazgul, but Gandalf was far more powerful upon his return. Tolkien has Gandalf speak his doubts about facing him to Pippen, but this is more the amplify the dread and uncertainty in the mind of the reader.
In practical result, the Witch King is defeated by individuals with no supernatural powers. This points towards something worth noting about Tolkien's works: the power of individuals is not simply in strength of arms, but also in the will to resist, and something akin to spiritual wisdom or fortitude. I do not think Gandalf was inferior to Merry and Eowyn in either regard, orchestrating pretty much the entirety of resistance against Sauron upon his return and knowing better than anyone what the Nazgul really were and what weaknesses they might possess.
Gandal eats the Witch King alive. He is as strong as Sauron and has one of the elven rings, it's not much of a fight to be honest. And Glamdring is a blade forged in Gondolin in the first blade. Fingolfin's elven blade managed to maim Morgoth, the master of Sauron, it would maim a petty wringwright as well.
Gandolph is not as strong as Sauron. Smh
@@brucewayne2558 Gandalf (might want to fix your spelling there) is one of the Maiar, same type of being as Sauron. Think of them as angels. The Ainur were the angelic beings in service to Eru Iluvatar (God, more or less). They helped shape all of creation. Both Gandalf and Sauron have existed since before time began, and had a hand in the creation of Arda (the world of Middle Earth).
The Ainur were divided up into what could be described as lesser and greater choirs of angels. The greater choir of angels was the Valar, and were beings of such immense power that many cultures would probably consider them to be gods themselves. The lesser choir of angels was the Maiar, to which both Gandalf and Sauron belonged (as well as the Balrogs), and were in service to the Valar.
Now, it is true that among the Maiar, Sauron was chief in power and status, so it's a reasonable argument that he surpassed Gandalf in strength. However, Sauron's power was also greatly diminished from his original incarnation, having lost the ability to shapeshift, then eventually to even take a corporeal form beyond an extremely weak one barely capable of existence. Had the Ring been restored to him, Sauron would likely have surpassed Gandalf the White once more, but since Sauron's power had been broken at Dol Guldur by the White Council (when he was the Necromancer) and Gandalf had arisen in power and status to the leader of the Istari (wizards), it's equally reasonable to suggest that at that point in the War of the Ring, Gandalf actually was equal in power to Sauron (though Sauron was certainly the greater overall threat, given the circumstances).
@@mr.battle20
Ringless Sauron>>>Gandolph
@@brucewayne2558 Uh, not necessarily, for the reasons I laid out. And it's GandALF. Not Gandolph. No such character exists in Tolkien's works.
When providing a response, please make it either an acknowledgement or refutation of my rebuttal, rather than doggedly repeating what you said initially.
The definite point where Sauron was stronger than Gandalf is a matter of mustering forces. Sauron had a seemingly endless supply of orcs at his command, not to mention the alliance of the Haradrim, men of the southern lands, Uruk-hai, etc. In terms of armies, he had the far superior numbers. However, that isn't to what I'm referring. I'm referring more to individual power.
Ringless Sauron's main power was his influence and manipulation over weaker races. Gandalf's true power was never really seen, as the character believed in restraint and understatement in terms of magic use. While he did fight valiantly in the War of the Ring, the truth is that he never did or indeed could have displayed the full height of his power. Had he simply unleashed the full amount of power to which he was capable, it is likely that he could have destroyed a massive amount of Sauron's forces, but with the cost of destroying a fatal amount of the forces of good as collateral damage.
P.S. As I laid out in my initial response, Sauron in the First Age would indeed have been FAR more powerful than Gandalf. However, much of his power was lost and diminished since that time, mostly due to his own actions.
@@mr.battle20
Third age Sauron>>>Gandolph
Gandalf claps cheeks
Gandalf the grey might have had some trouble(or might not have; after all he battled ALL NINE Nazghul ALL NIGHT on Weathertop 3 days before Aragorn and the Hobbits made it there; and he drew off 4 of them so that only 5(including the Witch king) were left to attack them)) but Gandalf the White, as the new leader of the White Council, and sent back to middle earth with more of his native power unlocked, would DEFINITELY have killed the Witch King or at least forced him to flee the field if not outright killing him. Gandalf and the other wizards may have the bodies of the elderly of the race of Men when they are in middle earth, but they are Maiar in reality, VERY mighty spirits that were there at the creation of the world, and their powers are great; and its why Gandalf, Sarumen and the other Istari are Immortal DESPITE having the bodies of Men.
And like I'm sure others have said; The only being that can match and defeat Gandalf after he becomes 'The White" is Sauron himself in person. Not any of his servants not even a powered up Witch King like we see in the siege of Minas Tirith. Gandalfs native magic, esp when the witch king doesnt have the other 8 nazghul with him to assist, and swordplay, would have killed the Witch King in single combat. Though I think WitchKing would have made a fight out of it for sure; Sauron had grown stronger by that point and was putting forth all his strength; that includes powering up his servants ESPECIALLY the Nine Nazghul, who rise or fall with their master, as the books say. Their power is directly proportionate to how powerful Sauron himself is, because their Spirits are bound forever to Sauron; and while all Nine Nazghul have their own Rings of Power(the Nine rings Sauron gave to Men), Gandalf both has his own Ring(The Elven Ring of Fire) ANd Gandalf has POWERFUL native magic based on his spirit being that of a Maiar. That's why he's able to effortlessly use powerful magic like Words of Power and Songs of Power even without using his Elven ring. Gandalfs Elven Ring assists primarily for Fire(for combat purposes like when he battled all nine nazghul; or when the Wargs attacked the Fellowship in the wild after they failed to cross the mountain Caradhras and Gandalf goes nuts with his fire magic burning everything including many of the wargs or else slaying them with his sword glamdring); and the Elven Ring is also great at Raising the Morale and Fighting Spirit of Gandalfs Allies, and lessening the Morale of his enemies and putting fear in them; and the latter power is what all the Great Rings have in addition to giving immortality(and, to mortals at least, invisibility, like the Nazghul or Frodo and bilbo or Sam with the one Ring).
5, whetertop had 5 nazgul, Gandalf admited that 9 would have killed him
Gandalf the grey could have beaten the witch king. Aragorn chased him off with a torch and a sword. Gandalf the grey slew a balrog. As Gandalf the white he would make quick work of him
But I think that was before the Witch King was enhanced.
I feel the Witch King was a far lesser and inferior being to Gandalf the White. HOWEVER, it seems like he may have been a secret weapon designed entirely for taking him out in this scenario.
We know in the lore of Tolkien that higher beings are not immune to the plots of those beneath them, for example an Eagle injures Morgoth, a Valar, as did Fingolfin 7 times. And it is implied that even Beren could injure him. We see many stories of lower beings overpowering stronger ones especially through the use of enchanted items, for example, the destruction of Smaug in the Hobbit.
One last consideration is that like Morgoth, but to an even higher degree, Sauron seemed to be reaching a dark understanding of the nature of Arda and creative methods of Eru over time. While they could never replicate it, I think Sauron may have had a decent understanding of the nature of the Valor and Maiar to know the correct sorcery to combat them. Indeed, "Sorcery" in this universe seems entirely founded on this school of elicit and corrupt control of Eru's creation.
It is possible for the Witch King to injure or even kill Gandalf through a similar plot, although I don't think it would do much good since he'd likely just get sent back again.
Aragorn didn’t chase the witch king off with a torch, the WK already achieved what he needed by stabbing Frodo with a morghul blade which would turn Frodo into a wraith and deliver the ring straight to WK. And he wasn’t scared of Aragorn he was scared of the Barrow blades and didn’t want to hang around long enough for it to be used.
If the Balrog fight is anything to go off, the fight would have lasted ages. The Rohirrim would have to be delayed by days.
Imagine this…
Gandalf and the men of Gondor wait as Grond hammers against the Door. But it is useless as the gate is far too strong to be broken by mere orcs. Suddenly the wizard senses a dark presence beyond that door. One that feels greater than any he has felt before barring Saruman and the Dark Lord himself. And though still weaker than him, something about it feels, it feels …familiar? Just then the gate starts changing. The wood begins to become darker, greener. Rotting away, almost. While the metal bars start turning orange and brown. Rusting at a rapid pace. “The Door” a soldier yelled. “What’s happening to the gate” another from the archer one chimed in. Gandalf can sense a weakening spell being used. “Someone is using magic, weakening the gate” the white wizard replied. And then Grond broke through. “You are soldiers of Gondor” Gandalf began, Grond being drawn back afterwards, “No matter what comes through that gate, you will stand your ground!”
Then the gate smashed open with some parts even being torn off the hinges. Pieces flew everywhere and there was a cloud of dust obscuring all sight beyond the gate. Until the was a strange sound reminiscent of a sword being unsheathed and another strange sound as suddenly a stream of flame and two red orbs become visible through the cloud. Fear and dread filled the area as all knew who that was. The stream seemed to move forward as if it was being held eventually a tall, crowned silhouette was becoming more and more visible. Out from the cloud stood the over 7-foot-tall familiar figure clad in dark armor, dark robes, and a helmet with a crown mockingly adorned atop and a large 2 handed longsword with a flaming blade. The Witch King of Angmar had come.
“Fire Volley” the captain yelled. But the Lord of the Nazgûl just blacked it with his hand. He then swung his flaming long sword sending fire at the Gondorian line. Only for Gandalf the White to trap the blaze with his staff and fire it back. But it was moot for the Witch King merely stood in the blaze before drawing the fire into his free arm and then hovering his hand over the blade reigniting its flame. Steadfast and unafraid, Gandalf atop Shadowfax rose his staff. “Go back to the abyss prepared for you” he declared! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your master! Go!”
The King of Angmar, from a mouth unseen, gave a deadly laughter. “Old fool” it said. Old fool, this is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain.” A voice of conquerors echoed for all to hear. “Let’s make this interesting” I The revenant said ominously with the coldness of iron. It then brought it’s flaming blade up. The wizard felt power at play but before he could act his staff was spontaneously destroyed. This scared the Lord of Horses knocking Gandalf off and Shadowfax ran off. The right hand of Sauron brought his burning blade down, pointing at Gandalf and cried in challenge “Face me, Wizard!” Show you are more than magic wisdom and knowledge! Show to all that the great wizards are more that cheap parlor tricks, senseless babbling, and useless information! On your feet old man!” As the new white wizard got up, he replied to his challenger. “Are you certain? For I am no mere wizard. Not anymore. I am the herald of Eru Illuvitar himself, and I surpass you in all power your master has and hasn’t given you.” He drew Glamdring as he finished.
The Witch King drew his sword down. “But are a true warrior?” I have spent more than an age warring and conquering.” I have faced greater foes and fighters that I and won. Have you?” There was silence… “This is how it shall be… you and I. No magic, no interventions, no backup, just two warriors and the divine symphony of swords dueling.” Gandalf quitly enacted two spells upon his trusted blade. A spell of banishment, and a aura of blue light to match his malevolent flame. The wizard only said three words, “So be it.”
Imagine Gandalf with Ian McKellens vioce and the Witch Kings with the Iron Revenant from League of Legends voice.
Heh, heh, an interesting and toyful consideration my friend but your final conclusion (which I think you know) is assuredly inaccurate.
Regardless of the powers invested in the Witch King, he was still born of Mortal stock. As you mentioned, most of the powers the Nazgul possessed either individually or together, was dependent on fear and terror. Gandalf had neither in their presence and displayed his contempt for them often.
Gandalf was a Maiar who had already defeated one of his own level (the Balrog) even before his elevation upon rebirth.
Though a confrontation with Sauron would have proven harrowing, against the Witch King, I highly doubt he would have been overwhelmed.
Also, Gandalf was "no man" as again, being Maia, he was far more. So he could still meet Glorfindel's prediction.
Anyway, fun vid to view, so thanks for that!
Outstanding video!
Very refreshing to hear a well informed opinion based on facts rather than on love for their favorite character.
There are lots of examples in Tolkiens works, LotR and Silmarillion( though I would not give too much credit too the S) where the underdog outperforms the "stronger" opponent.
With all the might/experience/cunning of the Witch-King and his Master I would NEVER imagine the confrontation to be a one-sided event even if I see Gandalf narrowly prevailing.
Just ask yourself: why would Sauron, a master of strategy and planing, who knew Gandalf from Valinor, patiently wait for thousands of years, build up his empire, then power up his most valuable servant if he would have imagined the WK to not be able to kill Gandalf?
And yes, Sauron knew Gandalf was in Minas Tirith, who else would have dispersed the Nazguls to rescue Faramir?
Do we have reason to believe sauron knew gandalf was resurrected and increased in power?
@@stephenglasse9756 THAT my friend, is truly a good point I never heard of before!
Maybe Sauron DID power up the WK to the level where he could confidently take on GtG but did not know that he was already elevated to GtW!
Regarding G´s resurrection: I guess that when G rescued Faramir from his suicide mission by dispersing the lesser Nazgul he revealed himself to Sauron, but that is (as much in LotR) not a proof but a indication.
I guess he never got any news of G´s showdown against Durins Bane so he assumed he was GtG all along.
Holy shit this voice of the WitchKing scared the fuxk outta me. Love it better than his movie voice!
Thank you! We will let him know!
Gandalf :)
Gandalf would of won that's why he came back powerful
Dude you’re so slow moss is growing. It’s painful, agonizing in fact. I know it’s mostly naturally your speaking handicap but I know you can pep up your narration a bit and talk a bit faster. I’d you do I promise to stop leaving dislikes.
Gandalf, as the White, was essentially at the apex of his true power and knowledge. Being resurrected by Eru Illuvâtar Himself, he is much more stronger than he was before, to the point where he battled Sauron's Eye to prevent Frodo's location from being known (which is not an easy feat). This, in terms of power rivals, if not, surpasses Sauron.
I wonder how powerful Gandalf would have been if he were sent back as a 22 year old man or elf instead of an old man. Not fully powered up but if he was meant to actually be a formidable instead of weak.
The age the wizards appear have nothing to do with their strength.
@@andyknightwarden9746 I thought he just said they feel tired and stuff like regular men. I mean a young man definitely doesn’t get as tired as an older man. I mean yeah I get that he’s a wizard and it’s not a big deal but I’m just wondering if what Gandalf would have been like if they had him come back as a young numenorian or elf like Legolas. Instead of just being an advisor but a fighter. Gotta be more bad ass.
@@forfun6273 you can't really be more badass than he already was. Gandalf the White was the strongest thing there outside of Sauron, bar none. Gandalf has been working against the machinations of sauron for hundreds if not thousands of years by this point, of course he's tired.
Their appearance was only that of an old man. I think this was intentional since if they looked like young men they would be too similar to elves who always appear young, but wise beyond mortal years. Also, men would not follow or give heed to any young man, and maybe not an elf, but an older wise-appearing man, yeah they would probably listen to.
@@jimmyboy131 Agree totally. This is evidenced by Theoden disregarding Aragorn's advice, even with Aragorn being the elder of the two, despite his more youthful appearance.
So Gandalf loses against The Witch King. However, Éowyn, with Merry's assist, defeats The Witch King.
Do Gandalf vs Éowyn/Merry assist video next.
That's because Merry had a blade of Westernesse, which was endowed specifically to harm the Nazgul. Once he stabbed the leg of the Witch-king that broke his protective spells, which Gandalf may or may not have been able to do, or to do quickly or easily enough during a confrontation. That's the only reason why Eowyn was able to stab him with her sword. In and of themselves Eowyn and Merry are no more of a threat than any other mortal, so Eowyn/Merry do nothing at all to Gandalf, even if Merry stabs him with his Numenorean blade.
I'm for Gandalf I disagree...
HOOEY. Nice try though. The Witch King gets destroyed over and over again. Get real. The Staff ya nutter. Light Blast? Etc....
Drivel.
For me the bigger dillema is who wins in the fight Witchking vs Balrog.
That scene in the movie was nonsense.
Why would Eru Iluvatar a being outside of time, send Gandalf back and not give him enough power to win a fight? Gandalf couldn’t have lost this fight in any scenario, night or even in Mordor because, he was gifted strength from a bottomless supply.
Good stuff man
Nah, Gandalf would take it.
Most of Sauron's power got sealed into the ring.
Gandalf had a similar power hack in white form (but legal).
Loki said it best:
"I am a God, you dull creature!"
If Gandalf could kill a Balrog then I’m sure he could beat the witch king.
The Witch King cannot be killed by men, Gandalf is not a man.
Gandalf 9 times out of 10.
Didn't it say the witch king can only be killed a women or something like that or is it just the movies
Wrong! Gandalf is a Maia, an immortal being even tithout his power elevation. Witch-king is a man with magic. To my mind, there is no contest.
Elendil was a numenorean from the line of kings who went toe to toe with Sauron. The WK is also a numenorean from the line of kings, but thousands of years old, powered up by a ring of men, stronger from the powers of a Nazgûl then powered up again by Sauron. He would then go on to fight Gandalf a maiar who had been gifted power but was still not as strong as Sauron even without the one ring, I can see the witch king winning this. Gandalf beat the balrog by a fall and still died he was by no means the greatest fighter. I think people like glorfindel are better fighters than Gandalf.
Gandalf the gres loses.... Gandalf the White wins!
Gandalf would definitely win because as you say, if Gandalf loses then Sauron wins and covers all the land in a second darkness up until the breaking of the world. That doesn't work. Why? Because the will of the One God Iluvatar always triumphs. If the Witch King wins in a one on one fight scenario then one of the base things that Iluvatar willed WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, and that is the upcoming dominion of men.
Remember LotR is written like a history book. It's not written as a "sit on the edge of your seat wondering if the good guys will win" scenario. It's written as history that has already happened and is a documentation of HOW the good guys won. People tend to forget that for some reason.
You do bring up a good point. You approach this question from a different perspective than we did in this video, though we do mention this very point in "Why were there no guards at Mount Doom?"
ua-cam.com/video/O7wctocizn4/v-deo.html
We think it would be a bit of an unsatisfactory conclusion to come to in the main video itself, but we are very happy you brought it up in this comment!
@@MysteriesOfWesternesse This is Incorrect, a very narrow view and assessment of the directives of Eru, which were never linear and straightforward. Furthermore, even if the fellowship had failed and middle earth fell to Sauron it does not mean men would not rise and evil would not be defeated.
Remember before the War of Wrath Morgoth had conquered Middle Earth. Only after the intervention of Valinor was Middle earth once again delivered. Do you truly believe that they would not have interceded again to preserve the will of Eru if it was required? There are videos on this speculation that are very good, feel free to watch them.
Now as to your point on surface value, it's wrong as Gandalf didn't fight the Witch King and men still rose to perform their role. Ergo, the supposition that he had to win or history wouldn't happen is without cause.
As for the Lord of the Rings being a 'history book' no it is not. It was created to be a mythology for England that was bereft of one, and was written to that effect and in that style, as a 'mythology' there is a vast difference!
Incorrect logic, I've responded below and to the video as a whole above.
So how did Eowyn manage it?
We explain it here: ua-cam.com/video/kPsSaTDrcps/v-deo.html
Hope this answers it
@@MysteriesOfWesternesse oh yes, very nice video. Thanks!
So a woman saved the world. And they say it’s a patriarchy.
Hot take: the whole patriarchy perspective is just one possible perspective. Tolkien created a fully fledged-out world, in which there are many cultures, and thus also many different social structures. Yes, many of the cultures in Middle-earth are, as per our present definitions, patriarchies, but there were also plenty of cultures described where women held the dominant vote, as well as plenty where women and men were politically equal, like for example Haleth in the First Age: she was the daughter of the chieftain Haldad, and should, in a proper patriarchy, have been passed over for the leadership role in favour of her brother's son, Haldan (or at most have been made his regent for but a few years). Instead, she became the chieftainess proper, even to the point that her clan would foreverafter be named "the House of Haleth".
The world is vast and complex. To summarise it all in just one sentence would be an injustice.
Gandalf the white is far stronger and more powerful then the witch king and thats a fact.
This dude was major reaching to come up with this awful take. Gandalf is Maiar, end of story. Witch--king had no chance
I heard the book was different but in the movie The WitchKing was about to Whoop Gandalf’s Ass!! Sorry 🤷🏽♂️
The movie is not the lore, this isn’t ‘Star Wars.’ So don’t quote it here as factual ‘mike drops.’
Dude your wrong your opinion....
what are we talking about here
Gandald VS Witchking - Who would win?
Wow even at 1.5 speed he talks waaay too slow jesus