The Rigol DS1104Z-S Plus Oscilloscope (EP 44)
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2022
- Doctor Plague bought another new oscilloscope for his laboratory. This time it's the Rigol DS1104Z-S Plus! He unboxes it and gives a review of what he likes and doesn't like about it.
See if you can find J.S. Bach before the end of the video! Be sure to watch to the end to see if you were correct!
Additional Info: The DS1104Z-S Plus was advertised with all the software upgrades as pre-installed for free. This may only be a limited time offer, but not sure.
ERRATA: At about 8:12 in the timeline I mentioned that the scope was "1 megahertz", but meant to say "100 megahertz".
Category: Electronics, Technical
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Great unboxing video! Chef's kiss
Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for the entertaining and informative video!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching!
Cool thanks for sharing
You're welcome. Thank you!
What weirdness, but..... I love it. I see you know your stuff.
Thank you!
The software options come as standard now with these Rigol series. I got my in late 2019 and this was already the case back then.
In fact this is the way Rigol competed with newer devices coming to the market since market introduction in 2015(?). Yes, this series isn't exactly new.
And yes, this scope series has some issues and you showed some of the major weak points very well.
All models in the series have basically the same problems: While the software got many fixes the loud fand and the sh*tty knob remained.
I've replaced the fan but the knob isn't so easy as there are different model years with different rotary encoders. Check this before you attempt to replace it.
On the other hand one gets a bit used to it with time and I prefer, wherever possible, not to input single digits but to select values by rotating it.
However, the DS1104Z-S Plus may not be the best choice for some people. For them the base model - DS1054Z - may make more sense.
It's way cheaper (around $400) but nowadays also comes with all decoding options etc. as standard.
It uses the same chassis, the same mainboard and chipset etc. as the DS1104Z-S Plus but it is missing the hardware for the function generator and the logic analyzer.
It is also artificially bandwidth limited to 50 MHz (youtuber Dave Jones has made videos about it) but the 100 MHz capability can be unlocked with a generated code (search for "riglol").
There are basically no disadvantages to this, even the supplied probes fit!
So the two missing hardware features remain:
-> Function generator: buy separately
For example the Rigol DG811 which can be unlocked, too: two channels with up to 100 MHz (calibrated to around 80-90 MHz)
With this Rigol func gen you can "record" a signal you grabbed with the scope and "replay" it with the func gen.
It can't do Bode plots, though (see Siglent scopes - they also have better/faster FFT but are more expensive).
-> Logic analyzer: buy separately
There are many cheap models available to connect to your PC/laptop.
Yes, a true MSO has some advantages but the separate LA also has some: you can store loads of grabbed data and analyze "after the fact" on your nice PC/laptop.
Together, these three devices should be less expensive than the DS1104Z-S Plus but more versatile and functional (like you showed with the Owon func gen).
The one negative aspect is that they take up more space but everything else should make up for it.
For the modding/unlocking and general info on these series:
I would recommend searching the EEVblog forum - there is a wealth of information on these devices.
Im new and just getting into making and circuits. Someone is selling the z plus for 300$. I dont think it comes with anything. Do you think thats worth it? Or should i just buy a new one for the $500 price point?
@@aguiremedia With the Z Plus you mean the "fully unlocked" (100 MHz capable) 1104Z Plus?
There apparently is a sale right now where it costs only about 20 Euros more than a 1074Z Plus (=70 MHz). This is obviously a NO-BRAINER if you want/need a Plus model.
However, both variants are clocking in at around 500/520 Euros (right now Euros are practically the same price as Dollars but in the EU the Euro notation *usually* includes the sales tax).
So they are still 80/100 Euros more expensive than a new 1054Z (needs to be unlocked to 100 MHZ, yes, but it's easy).
What you mainly get for this difference is the expansion option for the logic analyzer (but still no signal generator - that would be the 1074Z-S Plus).
This is well worth the price IF you want to upgrade to a MSO later - but then you would have to purchase the digital probes ("Rigol RPL1116 MSO upgrade option") for around $200/200 Euros.
But if you are satisfied with a separate low-cost logic analyzer (that outputs to a PC/laptop screen) then you will still be cheaper off with an 1054Z.
My first recommendation is therefore to watch the Dave Jones video about MSO scopes on his EEVblog channel ("eevBLAB #5 - Are Mixed Signal (MSO) Oscilloscopes Worth The Money?"). It is 7 years old but well worth your time as he explains it better than I ever could. Also read some of the comments regarding the limits of the small Rigols (for example regarding decoding serial protocols).
Also consider that the MSO option on the small Rigols has one downside: if you use 8 logic channels you lose 1 analog channel and if you use 16 logic channels you lose 2 analog channels! Compromises...
What about a $300 used 1104Z-Plus?
If it comes w/o accessories you'd have to at least purchase four probes (passive, 150 MHz with 1:1/1:10 switch).
You can buy Rigol ones for $30-40 (I assume) a pop or third-party ones for around $20 (I have no recommendation as I still use the original Rigol ones).
So, price-wise this offer would be about par with a new 1054Z (incl. four Rigol probes).
This could be worth it if you really want/need the MSO option.
Generally, the quality of these scopes is very high from a mechanical/electronic perspective.
On the other hand these scopes are around for a long time.
Can you inspect the used one before you buy it? Is everything else okay with it? How old is it?
If you can check this the scope may be a good purchase at this price.
If you can't check this my recommendation would be to buy a new one at $500 (or get a 1054Z).
Thanks for watching!
Yes the multi-function button could do with an indent version of the rotary switch. Interestingly some of the issues you raise are not a problem on my MSO2302A, so different models have different problems. Ironically I2C decode is broke on my scope, and Rigol have confirmed this.
I would be interested to hear what response you get if you report the sig gen issues to Rigol. I understand that in the USA you have much better support than outside the US. The mark of a good company is how is handles "complaints" and feedback on issues such as you have found.
I have heard of an I2C problem with a Rigol scope. The I2C decoding on the DS1104Z-S Plus seems to work fine so far. Thanks for commenting!
Bummer how Tektronics did that ole bait and switch to you, but really appreciate the in-depth review and example tests you ran this scope through! I actually picked up one of these for my dad not too long ago since it seemed like a good deal with a lot of potential despite its many quirks (he had been using an old briefcase sized analog 60mhz scope, so anything was an upgrade haha). I will comment even a year later from you making this review - that selector knob without any notches is 100% an irritating experience to contend with, but you do get used to it after a while. I'm hoping the sensitivity fades over time with use haha. Same for the odd behavior with the "previous state" options on things like the signal generator - had created the same exact results you had with your scope. Guess that is great news to see the consistency however!
Quick question - you know of any good references for oscilloscope projects or perhaps any projects of your own you like to run a scope through - similar to what you did in this video for example is a good start perhaps. My dad is a bit more of an old hobbyist with these, and loves to find good ways to use it, so appreciate any suggestions you may have! Awesome videos and enjoyable schtick - hope all is well Dr. Plague!
Best channel ever, Doctor RG Plague. For the ones who actually give rats ass to electronics, in fact, plagued rats!
Wow, thank you!
Now realizing he made an 8bit decission after new rigols releasement
How do you calculate the period accuracy when measuring it using the double cursor method?
If you are looking to measure the period, you can enable the period measurement from the 'Horizontal' menu on the left side of the screen. Then to activate the cursors you can click the 'Cursor' button, change the 'Mode' to Auto, then set the 'Auto Item' to measure the period with the cursors. Thank you!
Nice Video. For decoding stuff, I can suggest a USB logic analyzer (e.g. Saleae Logic). More decoding capabilies and memory and cheaper
The USB analyzers that I have seen usually have limited thresholds and voltage ranges and typically don't support analog for signal integrity analysis. They do usually have good decoding though. Thanks for watching!
For me salae logic analyzer is 50k Rs in India , so more expensive than the rigol (50k Oscilloscope + 20k for the digital logic probe) option if I'm already buying an analog oscilloscope
I just got the same logic analyzer accessory. You are correct, straight out of the box the little tags look like they could fall off.
I used 1/4 inch clear heatshrink tubing shrunk around the label tab. Seems to work well. You might give it a try.
Thanks for this video. It was a very good explanation of this scope and it's problems. Very helpful. Cheers!
Great idea using heat-shrink! Thanks for the suggestion!
Rigol makes some really shotty stuff completely, but going from an ancient busted 2channel tektronics scope to this was just amazing. It's not great, but 99% of the time it's never a problem and it gets the job done. Good review!
Thank you!
There can never be too many scopes in a (home) lab :)..., btw do you have a spectrum analyzer?
True...and each scope seems to have its own advantage....and yes, I have a spectrum analyzer (only 2.7GHz though - but gets the job done for troubleshooting radiated emissions - I have never failed a pre-scan above 2.7GHz), not to mention the Tektronics MDO scope has a built-in spectrum analyzer through a dedicated RF front end up to the scope's bandwidth and is capable of up to 3GHz with an optional upgrade module. The Tektronics works great for conducted emissions (using a LISN). Of course, I also have access to several high-end Agilent spectrum analyzers at my work lab. Thanks for the comment!
That’s a really deep in the unboxing! Thanks for putting all in the video!
Im new to this. Should i buy this used for $300 (in my area) or buy a new one in the $500 price range? Thanks
I personally prefer to buy 'new'. I have bought 'used' equipment in the past, and they usually have some type of intermittent issue, so I have not had good experiences with 'used' equipment. If you trust the seller, then 'used' could be a good deal. Also, it could help if they let you try it before you buy it to verify it works correctly. If it is a business and they offer a warranty, then you may be good to buy 'used'. Good luck!
@@DoctorRGPlague Thanks for the response! I think I am gonna buy new, I will compare the siglent models they have to any on Amazon that same 299-599 price range too see whats best for me. Im just getting into circuits and using raspberry picos to build wearables and gadgets so I don’t think I need much. Thanks for your input! And again I great job on your videos!
Mso5074 is in sale now it is a good choice also you could made your logic analyser probe by yourself or buy it DIY from ebay the scop will cost you 900$ in US with all options.the original logic analyser cost 400$ .
As for that memory stick....time to get out the old Dremel rotary tool!
Personally, I prefer to use a USB extension cord! Less mess to clean up! Thanks for the comment!
it's an addiction, seek help
Thanks for watching!
Why would you buy another oscilloscope besides an expensive one you already have just because of I2C decoding when you can decode all protocols in much more convenient way with under $10 logic analyser and PulseView? BTW, cheap Fnirsi 1014D oscilloscope boots in just 2 seconds and has better UI than both Textronix and Rigol.
You can never have too many oscilloscopes. I have multiple workbenches and it is more convenient to have scopes on each bench rather than moving them from bench to bench. So, I chose to purchase a cheap scope that will also equip another bench. This seems to be a very popular scope, so I thought it would make for a good review. Some of those cheap logic analyzers do have good decoding capabilities, but usually lack in other areas such as threshold adjustability, voltage range, analog comparison, etc. (at least with the ones I have seen). A 2 second boot would be impressive. The fastest that I have is a 10 second boot! Thanks for the comment!
Maybe rigol staff is colour blind
I think it's just a supply chain issue, but it is a little annoying to have mismatched colors. Actually, I was able to find a couple dark blue color bands from an old scope probe that I placed on the Rigol probe. They're a slightly different size, but it does the job. Thanks for the comment!
🥴
Thank you!
Bit of a waste of time really!