And when Lally was trying to trip her up…She was onto him and put him in his place. She is NOT to be fucked with! This was not her first rodeo. Truly a badass woman! My hero too! ❤️
@@Anonymous-im9ob “you can’t play a player” lol. Lally found that out today!!! ….in other words, you can’t out knowledge me on something where I AM THE EXPERT!
The summary of the bite report is as follows: If each juror bit Lally on the arm, we could not specifically match the human bites on Lally's arm to the specific juror. However, the result would show that the jurors felt better after biting.
Agree! I believe him. He knew and respected the Alberts (as he seems to respect people, animals, his job, other people’s basketball hoops) and with his eyes wide open, he did not see a body.
He was a great witness, he didn’t waiver in his answers and wouldn’t be convinced to change testimony like so many of the early witnesses under Jackson’s cross. He might’ve gotten his times mixed up though, however the part where he for sure didn’t see a body when there should’ve been one he seemed 100% on that.
For me, he comes off as a worker who is being honest, despite what it may cost him in the future…..keep in mind, this is a small town, him and his family can fall victim to the “good ol boy” system.
The commonwealth has the burden of proof. Not the luxury of conjecture. And "Lucky" Loughran was fantastic. Concise. On point. And ultimately believable. When a witness corrects the defense attorney, he's an honest man.
I agree. The CW had me a little worried when they made it sound like Lucky was being led, but his testimony felt genuine to me. I trusted him so much Lally questioning him on Proctor's report made me doubt the REPORT, not Lucky. But then, the CW's own witnesses have been pointing out inconsistencies in the reports not writing down what they said
@@dreamtrance9892- At that point I think Lally was just trying to confuse Lucky on the timing. Trooper Proctor may have written something different in his report, but he’s already proven himself to be untrustworthy so anything he’s written is useless.
And then only to show that he can speak quickly, get to the point quicker which proves that he has wasted so much of their time, day in, day out. He still asks horribly structured questions, though.
Agreed. And after weeks and weeks and what felt like years of Lally practically whispering and bumbling and now to see him far more assertive and almost barking just annoys me even more. Before I thought he was terrible at his job. Now I think he’s terrible at his job AND unlikable.
Agreed. He annoyed me so much during his directs and now he's being prickly and loud and bullying, def not a good look. Questioning witnesses credentials when we saw his witness "credentials". Any valid points he might get close to I want to disregard cuz it's him. Not an objective mindset but it's the reality.
Yeah, for sure! I just plopped into a bit of his cross on her because I am replay watching bc of Midsommar... He immediately just had a very cross and rude tone in comparison to what else I heard from him so far.. Not overly agressive or anything, but you can clearly tell he does NOT like this witness being there or him having to deal with it, and he doesn't have any good idea on how to try and get anything to discredit her, besides taking aim at her being retired.
There's a huge difference here with how accomplished & intelligent the defense's experts are. They also do not have an alternative motive or an agenda imo. Dr Russell and Dr Green seem to be such delightful & genuine people. Was really a breath of fresh air.
AND many of the police officers seemed to have something to prove, defensive, angry, etc. vs the experts who seem transparent about what they know and what they don’t know. I keep thinking about wisdom being about the awareness that you don’t know everything in terms of the experts vs the CW’s witnesses.
Isn't it interesting that the things they proclaim aren't true Lally goes on and on about? He did not want the dog bite doctor to be introduced into trial. If it has no relevancy then why does it matter? Why is it such a big deal? Same with John's movements and on & on. The things that the prosecution made a big deal over are the subjects that I'm focusing on and questioning why?! Is it because they hold some merit? To me, it is! Look how long they tried to disprove Jen McCabe's text rather than proving how John died. It's what they focus on that I focus on
@agent_ninety9 Lally messed his pants once Russell listed her education & experience. He found only ONE article which disproves only whether it’ll the individual can be determined make the injury is totally irrelevant to the testimony provided here.
I loved how Russell & Green had testified without an indication of bias. When they’re challenged on an opinion, there’s no defensiveness and they defer to the evidence provided no snark of “magic manipulation” the way CW experts had displayed
I believe they never cared whether Karen was convicted or not, but by putting all the attention on her and this ridiculous trial, they bought themselves plenty of time to destroy any and all evidence that would have pointed to the actual killer(s).
The FBI has incredible resources. In the Vallow-Daybell case they could pinpoint where Alex Cox and Chad Daybell were on the property on the day each child went missing. Far beyond cellphone towers. They may have evidence by the time it’s all over. Even if they don’t , the lives of those complicit in this fiasco are forever changed. They’ve been exposed.
@@Natalie32star I agree and now that we’ve heard from the ME, I think she may be the one who first called on the FBI. She would have the clout and the knowledge about the crime scene and evidence. Proctor said they laid it all out for her 3 times. She knew it was BS and the top Massachusetts DA was pushing this forward. Going to a Federal agency would be the only choice.
I was all YAY! Lally's own ME: "I don't think it was a car". Wtf? It would be funny if she was aware of what he said and decided to just casually throw his whole case under the bus. I doubt it, but it would be funny.
I am genuinely offended as a "juror" that Lally just wasted 8 weeks mumbling and circling drains... only to show us now he has an outside voice and the ability to pace. It just makes him even less sympathetic to me.
I believe he tried to act like a boxer in his own way!he wanted to tire his opponent with long questions and simple withness !he considered the doctor' opinion as the last blow but "she said undetermined "it can be anything "being afraid of people who are sneaky and quite in personality!ıt should not be taken for granted that she is found not guilty!A rational person could see this trial and would say she is innocent but nothing is certain!
Completely agree. He really surprised me on cross! But his arguments don't hold much weight cuz he argued the opposite with his witnesses so all I give is side eye when he's arguing not enough experience, precise timelines, witnesses "not recalling" is suspect, like yes that's what we've been saying about yours and you scoffed it off!
@@LovetheLed absolutely would. Inspired me to follow in get footsteps as I've always wanted to follow other interests I have. I might be into counseling psychology and research, but have taken an interests in astronomy, IT (specifically and malware analysis, arts in some way... And some forensic psych in there too.
I wonder how Judge Bev felt after Dr Russell went through her whole experience and education, about her previous comments in her ruling on her competency...... This woman is the most experty expert that has ever expertly experted on a stand as far as I am concerned.
Loved her--Dr Russell is a badass. My other favorite is Expert witness from the Depp/Heard Trial Richard Marks (He was the most interesting man in the world) if you haven't seen his testimony you must--he had something to do with all the big blockbuster movies and Heard's team tried to discredit him. He was as cool as a cucumber. Just like Dr Russell, Mr Marks was a badass.
Oh wow, did anyone else catch the ME when Lally asked “and even if you had felt pressured, what would your response have been to that?” and her response was not “my response would be…” it was “my response WAS that I am responsible for what goes on the death certificate, and unless I have enough information clear and convincing, I cannot determine a manner” or whatever, as if she DID have to say that to proctor…
Damn their own medical examiner 😮 … how HOOOOWWWW are they so confident in bringing this case to trial. Like… omg… idk how Lally will recover from this. Genuinely I guess I will keep watching..
Ohh and then he said take in consideration Trooper Guarino’s testimony too. Sir!!! Trooper Guarino told me that Karen was at John’s house at 12:36, when Jen continued calling and texting John until 12:50 and told us that at 12:45 she sent a txt because she was all the time looking through the window and at that time she saw the Lexus parked in front of the house. Am I watching the right trial? Because Trooper Guarino’s testimony gave Karen an alibi.
@@silikon2 is insane!! If anyway for the motion the judge has to analyze the “evidence” in the most favorable light to the CW, then Lally didn’t needed to lie and gaslight, the jury wasn’t there. That shows he is not just the guy that was obligated to do this. I can’t wait for the Feds to finish their investigation. I can’t stand corruption.
I couldn't figure out which tech guy was right, so if I was a juror, I'd just end up disregarding both of their testimonies (like they just cancel each other out). There's already enough reasonable doubt in my eyes that I'd vote not guilty. However, I do find it hard to buy Jen McCabe's story about Karen asking her to google "how long to die in cold". If I (and I think many people) came across my significant other laying in the snow, non-responsive, I wouldn't even think to ask that question. For one, Karen doesn't even know how long he's been out in the cold, so that information wouldn't really be that important. It really doesn't seem to be a logical question to ask in that situation. I would only ask the question "how long to die in cold" in a situation where someone is missing outside and you still haven't found them. Like if your senile grandmother wandered out of her house and you're hoping she's found before she freezes to death. Or perhaps if you're the one lost outside in the cold and worried that you won't make it long enough to be found.
Jen even Testified that KR said “Google hypothermia” and instead Jen typed out how long to die in the cold with multiple misspellings? I found it strange when she said it but it makes sense NOW!
You're absolutely right, and I also think that a lot of people have been convicted of crimes based on cell phone info. If that info is so inaccurate, why has no defense attorney ever used this defense before?
I think part of the confusion is because Whiffen used an iOS 14 for his testing while Jen McCabe owned an iOS 11. Green's tests were on an iOS 11. This is why Whiffen's results were so different from Green's results. I hope the jury caught this difference. Edited to correct iPhone to iOS.
The deal is the data experts agree. But the defense has stated there was 2 open tabs and tab times. The prosecution only gave the 2nd tab. As we all know there can be lots of open tabs. Prosecutor tech admitted they did not search for other tabs, only the one given. The defense tech stated all tab details and showed a specific tab opened and closed in the 2 am time frame. 🎉🎉
I never would have believed in the conspiracy. But the truth is, he did not get struck by a vehicle so the collusion and corruption has to be true. Scary. This could of happened to any of us
Why would the DA’s office need medical, biomechanical, and accident reconstruction experts when they have the Massachusetts State Police to investigate and conclude what happened? (with a straight face a la Jackson stating Lally is an excellent lawyer)
Did Lally forget we have video from the morning after when Karen went to look for John and both taillights have a lot of red and it doesn’t match the taillight after proctor had it 🤷🏻♀️ I don’t know how you get past that
And that he presented the trooper that picked up Karen’s car and testified the taillight was there. And that he presented an inverted video where there were people around the taillight in question. And that the video of that side of the Sally Port was magically erased. He wants to gaslight, but is bad even at gaslight.
I am so glad you mentioned the fact Dr Russell did all these fabulous things during a time when women werent even allowed to have credit cards or bank accounts. I didnt even think about it. What an absolute outstanding person. Amazing.
She did her own thing and I'm sure she got lots of pushback from friends and family. She and women like her should be a role model to kids. Pursue your passions no matter what those around you tell you what you should do.
MIT, U-Mass, USC educated ER MD, Coroner, Chief at Corcoran, USC and UCLA professor, Medical Board Fellow (+ more)… WOW… she is a medical rockstar. She took on multiple of the highest level of care facilities not only in our state but in the country. Seriously we need a streaming series based on her life.
I have found Lally to be very unlikable/ dull but after today I genuine disgust, literally in the middle of organizing my underwear and had to sit down his cross made me so uncomfortable. People comparing his style to Jackson just isn’t the same. Jackson attacks the ideas and only seemed to really attack the person themselves once he starts receiving evasive and misleading testimony. Dr Russell was a professional and an expert who wouldn’t allow him to get her to agree to something that she did not every time he asked it in a way he didn’t get a favorable answer. If I am this put off by him I genuinely can’t imagine being a juror witnessing it play out right in front of me.
He really didn't judge well how to treat these expert witnesses. He should have pushed at the many possible interpretations, been super polite and considerate (as AJ and Yanetti have been). We were all awake and listening to every part of direct and cross this time and heard Lally's outside voice loud and clear to get annoyed by him!
I have never seen a case more qualified to be dismissed by the judge-based on the defense request for the dismissal "because the prosecution did not prove their case based beyond reasonable doubt" !!
Also, I think Rittenhouse probably was even better qualified for dismissal. After this case's case in chief, I am confused and don't feel like anything was proven. Both the prosecution and defense's theory of the case seem unlikely. After Rittenhouse's prosecution's case in chief, I felt like his innocence was proven. Especially the Grosscroitz charge, where the victim himself said that Rittenhouse didn't shoot him until Grosscroitz aimed a gun at Rittenhouse. The number of times though that the prosecution's own witness was so bad that the prosecution ended up impeaching the credibility of their own witness was ridiculous. And not that it was legally relevant, but the fact that the prosecution completely abandoned their theory of the case and everything they claimed in opening statements, but instead went off on a brandishing theory based on evidence that they didn't even have at the beginning of trial was a really bad look.
I can’t believe Bev wanted to continue to trial with the Fed investigation on going . They may want to add her to that investigation since she’s not biased at all 😆🙄!! Who does she mingle with outside of court??! 🤔
The way Lally disrespected Dr Russell is getting me SO heated y’all. If the jury is anything like us, all he’s doing is pissing them off even more than they already were with his terrible condescension, constant interruption and belittling of this witness. And he’s not even making good points! When Jackson and yanetti didn’t have a point to make about a witness’s testimony they just didn’t cross! Or they did it very gently. Which gave the impression “when we’re a little bit pushy or rude, it’s because we’re RIGHT, and this witness is all sorts of messed up or wrong”. When lally does it to someone as ridiculously qualified and eminently likeable as this witness, all he’s doing is hurting himself. I’m not looking at HER any differently, Lally. I’m just disliking you all the more. He’s just SO bad at his job. He doesn’t understand the first thing about being a trial lawyer, and that’s so painfully obvious. You don’t need to come out and bluster and be a bulldog for every cross examination. And that’s just one small example of his many many faults and errors when it comes to trying this case.
Beyond BOSS that she was at MIT in 1972-73. Boston Police Training Academy, she was in school while she was a police officer! Then she went on to Med School! I am taking notes on her career 🤷🏻♀️She then went to be an ER Dr. Then she went to a residency in pathology. Live patients- done. Medical Examiner- done. Med School Professor and ER supervisor. Teach forensic pathology to Masters Students- Done. Supervisor of Drs , Medical School Teacher and ER Dr- yes all at the same time. I became a consultant at LAUSC, taught life support to trauma surgeons. Correcting errors of other Drs and teaching them how to treat trauma and have a better outcome. Jail Physician- because everything else already done 😂
She authored the book about dog bites and interestingly also book about gang tattoos. And just to make us mere humans feel absolutely pathetic, she also took in her niece and nephew and raised them. Slinking back under my rock now......
It was probably Trooper Proctor that was trying to obstruct justice in the truth coming out and doing that on purpose, thinking the tow guy was dumb or something, but he was very smart and he was very truthful
@@annamelvina216- He sounds like a very introverted kind of guy. One who doesn’t use a lot of words when he doesn’t need to. He means what he says, and he says what he means.
If feel so sorry for Officer Okeffe's family as they will never really know what happened and how he died. A shoddy investigation has destroyed any chance getting real answers
I hope they really listened to the witnesses today because so much doubt has been thrown in, they believe the officers & Dept , how sad to listen to today's testimony & not 100 % stop & think rationally over this info & think somethings not right here... If I was family I'd be so upset to learn this..
@@boanoah6362I hope there’s another case we can follow. Also I hope there’s a civil case. To have a partner die when you’ve been mid fight, your last words said out of frustration is hard enough to deal with. Then to go through this bs is brutal for KR. Justice for everyone involved is so desperately needed.
Trial day 29…. Today dear friends I have finally reached my quota of what if anything? Sort of, mumbling etc, I am now on my I give 0 fu**s about anything. Thanks lally
I noted there has been a few female expert witnesses and professional women testifying. The judge is a woman as is a member of defence council. Dr Russell is just extraordinary. I'm not sure the average person of any sex is capable of doing what she's done :)
Dr Russel is so interesting and such an inspiration. I would love to sit down and talk to her. She’s so educated and driven to keep learning. She’s a unicorn
I do not see how the murder charge wasn't dismissed. It seems like, based on everything we've learned in trial, that they haven't met that burden. Especially when the medical examiner said the defense's theory was possible.
They totally never expected this to go to trial. they tried to railroad her into a plea, and she didn't back down, and now their whole case is unraveling because it was designed to intimidate her, not convince a jury. /speculation
She is a BOSS! How dare anyone disrespect someone who is so incredibly capable and intelligent. Her career Journey should be the Netflix series (following her career) and a scripted series like “Bones” based on her decades of experience knowledge and training. ER supervisor and pathologist, Med School teacher it started at MIT in 1972. # of women at MIT back then? Then she went to Boston Police Academy in the mid 70s ! The way she blazed a trail for so many women makes her a national treasure !
He was very simple and how would someone know what vehicles are in someone's driveway and the exact time and not remember when he hit a basketball hoop? Incident reports are required for all accidents...why no memory of appox time of accident?
BOSS - admitted to MIT in 1972. She has blazed a trail for women in countless ways! She attended Boston Police Academy in the mid 70s. Can you IMAGINE how much macho, sexist, and horrific behavior she has endured and persevered in spite of! She is a role model and I would LOVE to see a scripted show like BONES based on her incredible career journey. She should at LEAST do a TedTalk! 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐That is not the screaming goat- she is the greatest (expert witness) of all time. What a BOSS💜
@@LovetheLed...I'm hoping she'll give another presentation at AAFS soon. I can totally imagine. My mom was a cop in the early 80's. She had to really want to persue her career to deal with all that.
Is Lally really trying to say JOK could not have been bitten by a dog because there were no other signs of a dog bite on any other part of his body? This is the same CW that wants us to believe JOK was hit by a vehicle with no broken or fractured bones? GTFOH.
If the defense objected to Lally's leading questions as often as he objects to theirs, we would atill be on the second CW witness. I know it's a legitimate objection, but it's hypocritical coming from someone who couldn't ask a non-leading question to save his life. Also, Brian Loughran needs to be protected at all costs, he is an absolutely lovely man who just told what he knew, simply and clearly. I thought I disliked Lally before..... it's nothing compared to how much I can't stand him after his attitude towards the defense witnesses. I would be shocked if he didn't put off most, if not all, of the jurors.
I was attacked by a dog when I was 7. It was lucky I put my arms over my head and neck. The injuries I got were to the inner arms because I put my arms where I did. Nothing else was bitten. I needed stitches and still have the scar to this day.
I was bitten by a Pit Bull when I was in my twenties. He went straight for my neck. I put my head down just enough that his upper canine tooth got caught on my jaw bone. The lower tooth punctured my neck right in front of my windpipe. I was lucky I ducked just enough that he caught my jaw. I don't think I would be here otherwise. The guy who owned the dog was a huge misogynist. I was with that dog for at least two hours with no problems, and then he came and sat down next to me with the dog by him. He started messing around with the dog for just a few minutes, and then suddenly the dog lunged at me. A year later, I was tending bar and my manager told me not to serve him hard liquor because she'd had problems with him before. He literally stood up on his bar stool and tried to punch me in the face. I had just enough room to back up and be just out of reach. My manager threw him out and told him to never come back. I never blamed the dog, just him. Unfortunately, it left me with a fear of large dogs.
I was bitten by a pit bull when I was 9 on my face. It first bit my hand and then lunged towards my face and got me in the cheek. Wouldn't let go until my cousin pulled him off me. I know not all pit bulls are vicious but I'm still traumatized 30 years later.
I know only what EDB has taught me about law but listening to the requirements for the CW, they absolutely did not meet them for this case to continue!!!
I’ve been teaching my 8 year old students about the probability scale. They understand an event cannot be likely and unlikely at the same time, even though they don’t have fancy degrees.
So it couldn't be an animal attack because injuries were only on one arm, but it could be hit by a 6,000lb vehicle because injuries were only on one arm. Ummmmmmmmm.🙃
If she was in trial for killing John through her phone maybe you could convince a jury but convincing anyone with any type of logical reasoning how how a 7000 pound object hit a human weighing 216 pounds in the arm without any obstruction behind him like a wall or a vehicle and threw him 30 feet and his arm violently broke durable polycarbonate into 45 pieces and these pieces cut his arm at a close distance and no other injuries other than ground contact injuries is ridiculous and as far fetched as a cover up is that is infinitely more likely than this physics defying theory.
A few years ago my best friend was in an accident on his motorcycle. Basically the car in front of him stopped VERY suddenly and he had to swerve to avoid going face first into the back of that car. In that swerve, his leg clipped the car. It was at relatively low speed (25-30 mph). He shattered his femur. The medical term that the doctor used was that his bone was dust. There is NO way that I believe Trooper Paul saying that KR's van clipped JOK's arm at that speed without leaving broken bones and massive contusions.
You stated this more clearly than the CW. But even with all that, how did his arm not break or have bruises and what has object did back of his head hit when he landed? Cuz they all said snow wasn't sticking till about 12 so I struggle to believe ground was THAT frozen! I live in NY and it's like all night at cold temps to freeze the ground like that. They should argue a rock in the lawn! And then where is all the blood, besides 6 drops?? And how did his blood drip down his clothes and jeans, not to the back of his clothes, like shouldn't even get to the jeans??
@@origamikiddo2625 if she hit him with that car it did not happen how they are trying to explain how it did. They buried themselves in to a murder charge and all the reality based ways she could have hit would clearly show it was complete accident and she didn’t know. They tried to make everything about the car for into their theory for all we know that dent may have been for months and the scratches are from when she hit his car. I am 100% convinced the driver trooper’s without a doubt tampered with evidence and broke pieces off her light to make the case stronger. If his his head made contact with either where the dent is or taillight there would be tissue on the car and or pieces. I don’t really think that family had anything to do with anything they are just dumb and did things that make them look suspicious to try to get rid of things that could maybe point at them. Those troopers, Higgins, and that police chief that is hiding messed with that taillight to make evidence point at her. No taillight made arm wounds it would take a lot more velocity for them to cut someone, glass pieces could but no tissue on the glass. Maybe he just fell his alcohol level was real high he wouldn’t be the first to slip fall and die and wouldn’t be the last. It makes me wonder if they found him with same injuries and instead of taillight pieces it was empty bullet casing would they claim she shot him without leaving bullet wounds in him. All the other stuff means nothing without reconciling the how the car hit him, this shouldn’t even be in a court.
Also the ME’s little smile between 24-25 minutes somewhere (when discussing that this could’ve been claws) is SO telling. You can tell this woman wants none of this nonsense and very likely believes the defense.
Mr Loughran’s testimony was an entirely different experience to any of the CW civilian witnesses. I found him endearing and extremely genuine. Could he have missed a body on the lawn? Yeah I guess it’s possible. Do I believe him though? Definitely. Compare Yannetti and Loughran to Lally and Jen. 💀
Oh, I totally agree. I think Chloe did attack him. Dr. Russell started to say she thought John O’Keefe had most likely raised his arm in a defensive gesture to block his face. That’s why Chloe didn’t attack any other part of his body. He used his arm as a shield. It makes perfect sense he would have all those scratches and bites on him. As Dr. Russell stated not every dog bite is going to go through the skin to the bone. Many of them are superficial, but can still cause significant trauma.
Wow Dr. Russell is impressive. She seemed very intellectually curious and accomplished. She has every type of experience needed to testify in this mysterious case.
I AM SO MAD 🤦♀️... that they didnt let Dr Russell keep explaining the injury patterns on the arm. 🙄 The pattern near the wrist is the one that she explained that sealed the deal for me. I had seen another expert online explain it too, exactly as she did. 2 larger parralel lines (potentially the large upper canine teeth) with a few smaller lines in between (likely the small row of small teeth between the canines, scraping the skin) all slightly laid in a rounded pattern like the shape of a canine jaw... 🤷♀️
Do you happen to remember their name? Was it a man who looked to be between 30-40? I have been trying to remember his name and watch his video again. Thank you 😊
Not to mention that if the taillight did the damage, the cuts would’ve had to have been up the arm, not across it like they were. The width of the cuts along his arm are wider than the taillight so it’s physically impossible unless the shards from it drug up his arm, which they clearly didn’t considering they’re perpendicular to the way they should’ve been
How, if John O'Keefe was side swiped by the taillight at an angle on the right side of the SUV, did he spin counterclockwise to the left across the path of the vehicle and land 30 feet away? Newtons third law - for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction! So the body would be forced in the opposite direction it was struck, not spin into the force of impact. Like when you throw a ball against the wall. It bounces back in an opposite and equal direction.
that's because in the Troopah Paul Multiverse, what if anything and everything is possible. Even turning against the sense of rotation imparted by a force. Why? "Because it happened." CW's witnesses were short of a circus, bar for a couple.
@Tracy they’re trying to add more impact to account for his head injuries and arm injuries. Being struck by a vehicle at 24mph isn’t going to land him where he ended up, it isn’t going to give him the injuries he sustained. They had to add all those damn extra impacts to make it “make sense.”
Yes!! After all his blustering about the defense, he's coming off nasty. There have been plenty of times I thought Jackson/Yanetti came off too strong but he's on a different level
Lucky reminds me of Isaac Baruch from the Depp trial. He’s known the Albert’s for years and was clear and believable and I put more faith in his words than anything the CW has presented.
Were I a juror in this case, I would be furious that I had to sit thru this completely unproven case. There’s no possible way anyone can say with certainty that her vehicle killed him.
I wonder if that's why the defense is zoom zooming. They don't need to prove anything and just need to create doubt. They did a great job in the CW what's left? I do want a map. I hope we get something in closing.
Lally is asking the Dr, who is brilliant and has experience, about analyzing photographs when his 'expert' witness didn’t know physics well and made his conclusions/calculations on hearsay!!??
If the medical examiners deems the cause of death undetermined how can they charge some body for murder if it's not conclusive that there was even a homicide.
An EMT/RN, under trauma circumstances, wouldn't even remotely consider starting an IV in the hand. Not even for a second. Under this condition, his body was too cold and blood flow basically nonexistent, they would go for AT LEAST 18g anticubitals in order to provide fluid and blood at high rates.
ALL IV attempts would have been clearly documented to prevent the questions and confusion we are discussing. This doesn't account for ridiculous incompetence of course.
You gained a loyal follower for life with this coverage Emily. I stumbled upon you and I really look forward to rewatching these every night. You do a great job and give a great insight. I agree with everything you say lol. you’re funny too and I really enjoy your commentary!! :)
Its telling how a witness who simply answers questions, confirms relationships and the events is so credible. It also massively questions the previous witnesses who act in a conpletely different way.
Lally questioning whether it's "normal" for a dog attack to only have injuries to one area of the body but also wants us to believe that someone getting hit by a car at 24mph and flying 30 feet only has injuries to his head and scratches on one arm lmao
To me- they showed that she had no idea he was injured and believed that he was out cheating. They were not helpful to the CW AT ALL!! IMO🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
Lally is being very rude! I am glad the judge is jumping on him! He had nothing so he’s resorting to being a bully. Dr. Russell is not being a hostile witness. I wonder if the jury is turned off
Dr Russell is my hero. What an epically educated, focused woman in her goals.
And when Lally was trying to trip her up…She was onto him and put him in his place. She is NOT to be fucked with! This was not her first rodeo. Truly a badass woman! My hero too! ❤️
Dr. Russell looked pissed - the frown scared me!
She is an inspiration to women!!
@@Anonymous-im9ob “you can’t play a player” lol. Lally found that out today!!! ….in other words, you can’t out knowledge me on something where I AM THE EXPERT!
Dr Russell ate Lally for lunch
EPIC is the perfect word for her career journey! Admitted to MIT in 1972! 1 of how many other women admitted that fall.
The summary of the bite report is as follows: If each juror bit Lally on the arm, we could not specifically match the human bites on Lally's arm to the specific juror. However, the result would show that the jurors felt better after biting.
Standing ovation.
Bah ha!😂
What, if any, level of elation would they feel afterwards if there is an afterwards
LOL, that's FUNNY!
😂 can this be so wrong yet so right at the same time?
Brian Loughram had such a transparent and genuine disclosure of his relationship with the Alberts. Really puts everything else into perspective
Agree! I believe him. He knew and respected the Alberts (as he seems to respect people, animals, his job, other people’s basketball hoops) and with his eyes wide open, he did not see a body.
Lucky was honest and sincere in his answers. Sweet, simple man. Thank God Alberts didn't get to him. I hope he is safe in that corrupt town.
His answers were definitely genuine, and he didn't feel the need to explain or expound; he just answered the questions directly and to the point.
@@zxy78267and definitely wasn’t looking for any 15 minutes of fame.
He was a great witness, he didn’t waiver in his answers and wouldn’t be convinced to change testimony like so many of the early witnesses under Jackson’s cross. He might’ve gotten his times mixed up though, however the part where he for sure didn’t see a body when there should’ve been one he seemed 100% on that.
The Netflix series needs to be about Dr Russel and her incredible career journey 💜💜
I agree!
lol she’s gonna get an entire episode where she just goes over her credentials
I thought it was Grussell? That’s how the judge says it 😅
The snow plow guy seems like a really sweet man.
For me, he comes off as a worker who is being honest, despite what it may cost him in the future…..keep in mind, this is a small town, him and his family can fall victim to the “good ol boy” system.
And it says something else to the jury that the troopers didn’t find him credible. They ignored anything that didn’t align with their theory.
The commonwealth has the burden of proof. Not the luxury of conjecture.
And "Lucky" Loughran was fantastic. Concise. On point. And ultimately believable. When a witness corrects the defense attorney, he's an honest man.
I agree. The CW had me a little worried when they made it sound like Lucky was being led, but his testimony felt genuine to me. I trusted him so much Lally questioning him on Proctor's report made me doubt the REPORT, not Lucky. But then, the CW's own witnesses have been pointing out inconsistencies in the reports not writing down what they said
Lally AND Proctor were actively trying to discredit Lucky and later Yenetti who met with him at a location chosen by Lucky!!
@@dreamtrance9892- At that point I think Lally was just trying to confuse Lucky on the timing. Trooper Proctor may have written something different in his report, but he’s already proven himself to be untrustworthy so anything he’s written is useless.
Lally was grasping at straws during his cross-examinations, especially with Dr. Russell, and he made himself incredibly unlikable to the jury.
And then only to show that he can speak quickly, get to the point quicker which proves that he has wasted so much of their time, day in, day out. He still asks horribly structured questions, though.
To attempt to attack her knowledge….. with the witness of the CW that Alan Jackson DEMOLISHED on the stand the other day is nasty work from Lally Pop!
Agreed. And after weeks and weeks and what felt like years of Lally practically whispering and bumbling and now to see him far more assertive and almost barking just annoys me even more. Before I thought he was terrible at his job. Now I think he’s terrible at his job AND unlikable.
Agreed. He annoyed me so much during his directs and now he's being prickly and loud and bullying, def not a good look. Questioning witnesses credentials when we saw his witness "credentials". Any valid points he might get close to I want to disregard cuz it's him. Not an objective mindset but it's the reality.
Yeah, for sure! I just plopped into a bit of his cross on her because I am replay watching bc of Midsommar... He immediately just had a very cross and rude tone in comparison to what else I heard from him so far.. Not overly agressive or anything, but you can clearly tell he does NOT like this witness being there or him having to deal with it, and he doesn't have any good idea on how to try and get anything to discredit her, besides taking aim at her being retired.
There's a huge difference here with how accomplished & intelligent the defense's experts are. They also do not have an alternative motive or an agenda imo. Dr Russell and Dr Green seem to be such delightful & genuine people. Was really a breath of fresh air.
Yes! And the plow driver! All experts in their respective fields as well as kind and normal!
AND many of the police officers seemed to have something to prove, defensive, angry, etc. vs the experts who seem transparent about what they know and what they don’t know. I keep thinking about wisdom being about the awareness that you don’t know everything in terms of the experts vs the CW’s witnesses.
Isn't it interesting that the things they proclaim aren't true Lally goes on and on about? He did not want the dog bite doctor to be introduced into trial. If it has no relevancy then why does it matter? Why is it such a big deal? Same with John's movements and on & on. The things that the prosecution made a big deal over are the subjects that I'm focusing on and questioning why?! Is it because they hold some merit? To me, it is! Look how long they tried to disprove Jen McCabe's text rather than proving how John died. It's what they focus on that I focus on
@agent_ninety9 Lally messed his pants once Russell listed her education & experience.
He found only ONE article which disproves only whether it’ll the individual can be determined make the injury is totally irrelevant to the testimony provided here.
I loved how Russell & Green had testified without an indication of bias. When they’re challenged on an opinion, there’s no defensiveness and they defer to the evidence provided no snark of “magic manipulation” the way CW experts had displayed
This whole thing is sad because at the end of the day John O'keefe will not have justice due to these cops sloppy work. RIP JO!
I believe they never cared whether Karen was convicted or not, but by putting all the attention on her and this ridiculous trial, they bought themselves plenty of time to destroy any and all evidence that would have pointed to the actual killer(s).
The FBI has incredible resources. In the Vallow-Daybell case they could pinpoint where Alex Cox and Chad Daybell were on the property on the day each child went missing. Far beyond cellphone towers. They may have evidence by the time it’s all over. Even if they don’t , the lives of those complicit in this fiasco are forever changed. They’ve been exposed.
He will. FBI is all over this! That will get that corrupt family! Higgins is already singing like a bird!
@@Natalie32star I agree and now that we’ve heard from the ME, I think she may be the one who first called on the FBI. She would have the clout and the knowledge about the crime scene and evidence. Proctor said they laid it all out for her 3 times. She knew it was BS and the top Massachusetts DA was pushing this forward. Going to a Federal agency would be the only choice.
Judge: A biomedical engineer can't testify to that.
ME: That would require a biomedical engineer. I'll hold his beer, probly.
my jaw dropped
@@emilymyers1095 My bad, biomechanical. But my jaw dropped too 😂
I was all YAY!
Lally's own ME: "I don't think it was a car". Wtf?
It would be funny if she was aware of what he said and decided to just casually throw his whole case under the bus.
I doubt it, but it would be funny.
I laughed out loud when the ME said that.
This case is certainly highlighting Judge Bev’s lack of humility with instances that aren’t her expertise
If I was defense I would ask to reconsider since the commonwealths own witness said I’m not a bio mechanical engineer 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
68 witnesses 29 days and I still have no idea what happened
Dr. Russell is outstanding!!!
Yes! Sit down, Lally.
I am genuinely offended as a "juror" that Lally just wasted 8 weeks mumbling and circling drains... only to show us now he has an outside voice and the ability to pace. It just makes him even less sympathetic to me.
The upside is exposing (I can’t believe I’m saying this💙😒) the corrupt law enforcement system in Massachusetts, home of MIT and Harvard.
Yes!!
I believe he tried to act like a boxer in his own way!he wanted to tire his opponent with long questions and simple withness !he considered the doctor' opinion as the last blow but "she said undetermined "it can be anything "being afraid of people who are sneaky and quite in personality!ıt should not be taken for granted that she is found not guilty!A rational person could see this trial and would say she is innocent but nothing is certain!
Completely agree. He really surprised me on cross! But his arguments don't hold much weight cuz he argued the opposite with his witnesses so all I give is side eye when he's arguing not enough experience, precise timelines, witnesses "not recalling" is suspect, like yes that's what we've been saying about yours and you scoffed it off!
Yikes. Well put and I agree.
Wow!! Wow… wow… they have this woman on trial for intentional murder on “it’s possible.” I don’t know if I am more angry or more nauseous.
Makes me wonder how many times they've done this before. Especially with people who have far less money to fight it.
Yet the Dr. Russell’s “possibly” were hounded by Lally. What a joke.
Or more scared! It’s terrifying to know they could lock you up for life on “it’s possible” with all the suspicious investigations they did.
It's beyond scary that they can convict someone so easily with such poor work. If your not in their group then your a 🎯
Now, I can see why the the FBI is investigating that DA’s office for corruption.😂
Lally vs. Dr. Russell: A kindergarten student vs. Einstein
I know kindergarten students that construct better sentences than Lally!!
Idk how Lally even passed the Bar. He doesn’t come across as knowledgeable & confident about the law at all to me.
@shaunahale because it’s a test that one can practice for
Lol I read that fast and thought it said Eminem 😂
I thought Lally was practically crossing Einstein, and certainly so with her credentials to this specific situation.
Dr Russell, our favourite superwoman 😁
Wouldn’t you watch a show about her amazing career journey? Kinda like the show “Bones”?
@@LovetheLed absolutely would. Inspired me to follow in get footsteps as I've always wanted to follow other interests I have. I might be into counseling psychology and research, but have taken an interests in astronomy, IT (specifically and malware analysis, arts in some way... And some forensic psych in there too.
Lucky was the most trustworthy witness. He doesn’t have a dog in this fight. Honest man
i believe the plow truck driver's memory over the reoprt
….because ATP, “what if any”, report we can believe 🤔
There’s a reason these cops didn’t use modern technology for any of these interviews
All Day Long!
I wonder how Judge Bev felt after Dr Russell went through her whole experience and education, about her previous comments in her ruling on her competency......
This woman is the most experty expert that has ever expertly experted on a stand as far as I am concerned.
BOSS💜💜💜
Loved her--Dr Russell is a badass. My other favorite is Expert witness from the Depp/Heard Trial Richard Marks (He was the most interesting man in the world) if you haven't seen his testimony you must--he had something to do with all the big blockbuster movies and Heard's team tried to discredit him. He was as cool as a cucumber. Just like Dr Russell, Mr Marks was a badass.
Oh wow, did anyone else catch the ME when Lally asked “and even if you had felt pressured, what would your response have been to that?” and her response was not “my response would be…” it was “my response WAS that I am responsible for what goes on the death certificate, and unless I have enough information clear and convincing, I cannot determine a manner” or whatever, as if she DID have to say that to proctor…
I noticed that also. Extremely telling!
Damn their own medical examiner 😮 … how HOOOOWWWW are they so confident in bringing this case to trial. Like… omg… idk how Lally will recover from this. Genuinely I guess I will keep watching..
Because according to Lally, trooper Paul’s “linear momentum” shows it. 😂 the guy doesn’t even know what is momentum, but OK.
Ohh and then he said take in consideration Trooper Guarino’s testimony too. Sir!!! Trooper Guarino told me that Karen was at John’s house at 12:36, when Jen continued calling and texting John until 12:50 and told us that at 12:45 she sent a txt because she was all the time looking through the window and at that time she saw the Lexus parked in front of the house. Am I watching the right trial? Because Trooper Guarino’s testimony gave Karen an alibi.
For me, all the evidence points at John being attacked. Not hit by a car.
@@lhr8833Yep, Guarino gave her an alibi, ME said it wasn't a vehicle... this case often feels like a Black Mirror episode.
@@silikon2 is insane!! If anyway for the motion the judge has to analyze the “evidence” in the most favorable light to the CW, then Lally didn’t needed to lie and gaslight, the jury wasn’t there. That shows he is not just the guy that was obligated to do this. I can’t wait for the Feds to finish their investigation. I can’t stand corruption.
I couldn't figure out which tech guy was right, so if I was a juror, I'd just end up disregarding both of their testimonies (like they just cancel each other out). There's already enough reasonable doubt in my eyes that I'd vote not guilty. However, I do find it hard to buy Jen McCabe's story about Karen asking her to google "how long to die in cold". If I (and I think many people) came across my significant other laying in the snow, non-responsive, I wouldn't even think to ask that question. For one, Karen doesn't even know how long he's been out in the cold, so that information wouldn't really be that important. It really doesn't seem to be a logical question to ask in that situation. I would only ask the question "how long to die in cold" in a situation where someone is missing outside and you still haven't found them. Like if your senile grandmother wandered out of her house and you're hoping she's found before she freezes to death. Or perhaps if you're the one lost outside in the cold and worried that you won't make it long enough to be found.
Jen even Testified that KR said “Google hypothermia” and instead Jen typed out how long to die in the cold with multiple misspellings? I found it strange when she said it but it makes sense NOW!
You're absolutely right, and I also think that a lot of people have been convicted of crimes based on cell phone info. If that info is so inaccurate, why has no defense attorney ever used this defense before?
Good point!
She searched it at or before 227am, she lied, plain and simple.
I think part of the confusion is because Whiffen used an iOS 14 for his testing while Jen McCabe owned an iOS 11. Green's tests were on an iOS 11. This is why Whiffen's results were so different from Green's results. I hope the jury caught this difference.
Edited to correct iPhone to iOS.
Shocking a real expert is clear concise and smart
And admits when they don't know or were wrong...
@@cplusmcretired right its a novel concept
😂
And they're not actively spouting word salads. Honestly, that one witness I can't remember the name of spoke in tongues.
Replay Crew Here: when it takes 1/2 a day to introduce all your degrees, licenses & distinguished career accomplishments ❤🎉❤ She's truly incredible!!
The deal is the data experts agree. But the defense has stated there was 2 open tabs and tab times. The prosecution only gave the 2nd tab. As we all know there can be lots of open tabs. Prosecutor tech admitted they did not search for other tabs, only the one given. The defense tech stated all tab details and showed a specific tab opened and closed in the 2 am time frame. 🎉🎉
Thankyou!!!!
If the ME doesn’t have a conclusive opinion, why the hell are we here?
I never would have believed in the conspiracy. But the truth is, he did not get struck by a vehicle so the collusion and corruption has to be true. Scary. This could of happened to any of us
In Texas if the ME report is UNDetermined then the DA can NOT bring charges- regardless of the evidence
20:10 Lally she said that he was not struck by a vehicle!!!!
Why would the DA’s office need medical, biomechanical, and accident reconstruction experts when they have the Massachusetts State Police to investigate and conclude what happened? (with a straight face a la Jackson stating Lally is an excellent lawyer)
This is the best question for the entire trial.
Priceless experience for the young female criminal defense attorney.
I really like her! With more experience she’s going to be A+
@@Vsan2910 Working under those hired gun's,definitely will not hurt her.
She has 10 years of experience and is a partner.
@@chase8454 I sit corrected. That's what I get for assuming.
Don’t come for me 😂😂😂 I don’t like her style of questioning 🙈but that’s just me
Did Lally forget we have video from the morning after when Karen went to look for John and both taillights have a lot of red and it doesn’t match the taillight after proctor had it 🤷🏻♀️ I don’t know how you get past that
those are facts we can skip over cmon the state just wants you to think she went 24mph and he flew 30 ft and did a split
I would love to show that again as a reminder. This trial ia such a crime.
And that he presented the trooper that picked up Karen’s car and testified the taillight was there. And that he presented an inverted video where there were people around the taillight in question. And that the video of that side of the Sally Port was magically erased. He wants to gaslight, but is bad even at gaslight.
Replay here...Too much made about Jen McCabe's phone and important information is getting buried/pushed aside.
@@angellittle6453 I live in MA and our state has to protect the mccabes and alberts at all costs
I am so glad you mentioned the fact Dr Russell did all these fabulous things during a time when women werent even allowed to have credit cards or bank accounts. I didnt even think about it. What an absolute outstanding person. Amazing.
Admitted to MIT in 1972!🐐🐐🐐
She did her own thing and I'm sure she got lots of pushback from friends and family. She and women like her should be a role model to kids. Pursue your passions no matter what those around you tell you what you should do.
MIT, U-Mass, USC educated ER MD, Coroner, Chief at Corcoran, USC and UCLA professor, Medical Board Fellow (+ more)… WOW… she is a medical rockstar. She took on multiple of the highest level of care facilities not only in our state but in the country. Seriously we need a streaming series based on her life.
I KEEP saying this. Like “Bones”! They could call it BOSS because that is what SHE is 💜💜💜
@@LovetheLed- She a cross of Dr. House and Bones.
I like this first defence witness.
Clear answers no additional narrative. 👍
Why am I not surprised Lally would come out as a first class A hole when Defense starts their case in chief?
I have found Lally to be very unlikable/ dull but after today I genuine disgust, literally in the middle of organizing my underwear and had to sit down his cross made me so uncomfortable.
People comparing his style to Jackson just isn’t the same. Jackson attacks the ideas and only seemed to really attack the person themselves once he starts receiving evasive and misleading testimony. Dr Russell was a professional and an expert who wouldn’t allow him to get her to agree to something that she did not every time he asked it in a way he didn’t get a favorable answer. If I am this put off by him I genuinely can’t imagine being a juror witnessing it play out right in front of me.
He really didn't judge well how to treat these expert witnesses. He should have pushed at the many possible interpretations, been super polite and considerate (as AJ and Yanetti have been). We were all awake and listening to every part of direct and cross this time and heard Lally's outside voice loud and clear to get annoyed by him!
I have never seen a case more qualified to be dismissed by the judge-based on the defense request for the dismissal "because the prosecution did not prove their case based beyond reasonable doubt" !!
I know! I’m truly baffled she felt they did - shady!
Beyond reasonable doubt isn't the standard for judge dismissals. The standard is so low that it basically never happens.
Also, I think Rittenhouse probably was even better qualified for dismissal. After this case's case in chief, I am confused and don't feel like anything was proven. Both the prosecution and defense's theory of the case seem unlikely. After Rittenhouse's prosecution's case in chief, I felt like his innocence was proven. Especially the Grosscroitz charge, where the victim himself said that Rittenhouse didn't shoot him until Grosscroitz aimed a gun at Rittenhouse. The number of times though that the prosecution's own witness was so bad that the prosecution ended up impeaching the credibility of their own witness was ridiculous. And not that it was legally relevant, but the fact that the prosecution completely abandoned their theory of the case and everything they claimed in opening statements, but instead went off on a brandishing theory based on evidence that they didn't even have at the beginning of trial was a really bad look.
I can’t believe Bev wanted to continue to trial with the Fed investigation on going . They may want to add her to that investigation since she’s not biased at all 😆🙄!! Who does she mingle with outside of court??! 🤔
Especially RIGHT AFTER the ME said injuries weren't like a vehicle pedestrian accident
The way Lally disrespected Dr Russell is getting me SO heated y’all. If the jury is anything like us, all he’s doing is pissing them off even more than they already were with his terrible condescension, constant interruption and belittling of this witness. And he’s not even making good points! When Jackson and yanetti didn’t have a point to make about a witness’s testimony they just didn’t cross! Or they did it very gently. Which gave the impression “when we’re a little bit pushy or rude, it’s because we’re RIGHT, and this witness is all sorts of messed up or wrong”. When lally does it to someone as ridiculously qualified and eminently likeable as this witness, all he’s doing is hurting himself. I’m not looking at HER any differently, Lally. I’m just disliking you all the more.
He’s just SO bad at his job. He doesn’t understand the first thing about being a trial lawyer, and that’s so painfully obvious. You don’t need to come out and bluster and be a bulldog for every cross examination. And that’s just one small example of his many many faults and errors when it comes to trying this case.
Beyond BOSS that she was at MIT in 1972-73. Boston Police Training Academy, she was in school while she was a police officer! Then she went on to Med School! I am taking notes on her career 🤷🏻♀️She then went to be an ER Dr. Then she went to a residency in pathology. Live patients- done. Medical Examiner- done. Med School Professor and ER supervisor. Teach forensic pathology to Masters Students- Done. Supervisor of Drs , Medical School Teacher and ER Dr- yes all at the same time. I became a consultant at LAUSC, taught life support to trauma surgeons. Correcting errors of other Drs and teaching them how to treat trauma and have a better outcome. Jail Physician- because everything else already done 😂
My hands got tired trying to get Dr Russel resume!
She is outstanding!
She authored the book about dog bites and interestingly also book about gang tattoos.
And just to make us mere humans feel absolutely pathetic, she also took in her niece and nephew and raised them. Slinking back under my rock now......
I was wondering how she could have done all that AND raised kids. I don’t know why I thought she couldn’t possibly have it ALL but yes, she did! BOSS
And here I struggle with weekly meal prep
Dr Marie Russell is an inspiration and verifiable badass!!! ❤
It was probably Trooper Proctor that was trying to obstruct justice in the truth coming out and doing that on purpose, thinking the tow guy was dumb or something, but he was very smart and he was very truthful
He speaks slowly but he thinks things through.
💯
@@annamelvina216- He sounds like a very introverted kind of guy. One who doesn’t use a lot of words when he doesn’t need to. He means what he says, and he says what he means.
If feel so sorry for Officer Okeffe's family as they will never really know what happened and how he died. A shoddy investigation has destroyed any chance getting real answers
Karen Read and the Okeffe family are the real victims here. Of course, John too.
Nah, I'm pretty sure the FBI knows and when the case is over they'll probably start investigating these dirtbags.
I hope they really listened to the witnesses today because so much doubt has been thrown in, they believe the officers & Dept , how sad to listen to today's testimony & not 100 % stop & think rationally over this info & think somethings not right here... If I was family I'd be so upset to learn this..
@@boanoah6362I hope there’s another case we can follow. Also I hope there’s a civil case. To have a partner die when you’ve been mid fight, your last words said out of frustration is hard enough to deal with. Then to go through this bs is brutal for KR. Justice for everyone involved is so desperately needed.
@semiprokeloi I guess that's why she left his kids 2 hours later cut his family off and slept with his friend 🧡
Emily accidentally playing random sounds today was literally the highlight of my day 😂
Trial day 29…. Today dear friends I have finally reached my quota of what if anything? Sort of, mumbling etc, I am now on my I give 0 fu**s about anything. Thanks lally
The "sort of" has been grating on my nerves for the whole trial! Grrr
Wanna charge back on the Effs? Search for Thomas Benjamin Esq.'s "I've no more FFFs to give". That's cheer ya up.
Someone should make one of those yt ambience videos just of Lally examining a witness to help you sleep.
I never want to hear the word “directionality” again as long as I live !
@@silikon2😂😂😂🥴🥴🥴
Save the most damaging witness to your case for last so it sticks with the jury. Grrrreat idea, Lally.
He's doing such a good job for defense. And in case we had any lingering questions, he becomes very unlikeable on all his crosses this day.
Why on earth would you have the ME as your final witness in the jury’s mind? You want to end on “I deemed it undetermined”??
or worse "its not consistent with a typical pedestrian-vehicle collision"
What, if anything, was Lally thinking?
I live in Malden and I pray that Dr. Russell it shows that women can do and become whatever they want
I noted there has been a few female expert witnesses and professional women testifying. The judge is a woman as is a member of defence council. Dr Russell is just extraordinary. I'm not sure the average person of any sex is capable of doing what she's done :)
I am obsessed with Dr Russell and can't believe how perfect she is for the case in terms of her backround and expertise.
Dr Russel is so interesting and such an inspiration. I would love to sit down and talk to her. She’s so educated and driven to keep learning. She’s a unicorn
I do not see how the murder charge wasn't dismissed. It seems like, based on everything we've learned in trial, that they haven't met that burden. Especially when the medical examiner said the defense's theory was possible.
omg they said they whats the time stamp?
Cannone has her marching orders. Get the case to the jury even though there’s no case. Makes one wonder
@@Chris2stillaI would watch the whole cross. It was pretty concise and surgical- basically all of JO’s injuries could also be from a fight.
They totally never expected this to go to trial. they tried to railroad her into a plea, and she didn't back down, and now their whole case is unraveling because it was designed to intimidate her, not convince a jury. /speculation
There is an old phrase “the coverup is worse than the crime”
Dr Marie Russell giving the long blink to Lally when he interrupts her is true GOAT moves
She is a BOSS! How dare anyone disrespect someone who is so incredibly capable and intelligent. Her career Journey should be the Netflix series (following her career) and a scripted series like “Bones” based on her decades of experience knowledge and training. ER supervisor and pathologist, Med School teacher it started at MIT in 1972. # of women at MIT back then? Then she went to Boston Police Academy in the mid 70s ! The way she blazed a trail for so many women makes her a national treasure !
could you imagine just being a plow driver, doing your job. And then you get sucked into the mess that is this case. That poor guy.
He was very simple and how would someone know what vehicles are in someone's driveway and the exact time and not remember when he hit a basketball hoop? Incident reports are required for all accidents...why no memory of appox time of accident?
Dr. Russell was a delight to watch. She is what a true genius looks like. Loved her long suffering attitude with Lally. Woman's seen some shit.
BOSS - admitted to MIT in 1972. She has blazed a trail for women in countless ways! She attended Boston Police Academy in the mid 70s. Can you IMAGINE how much macho, sexist, and horrific behavior she has endured and persevered in spite of! She is a role model and I would LOVE to see a scripted show like BONES based on her incredible career journey. She should at LEAST do a TedTalk! 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐That is not the screaming goat- she is the greatest (expert witness) of all time. What a BOSS💜
@@LovetheLed...I'm hoping she'll give another presentation at AAFS soon. I can totally imagine. My mom was a cop in the early 80's. She had to really want to persue her career to deal with all that.
Is Lally really trying to say JOK could not have been bitten by a dog because there were no other signs of a dog bite on any other part of his body? This is the same CW that wants us to believe JOK was hit by a vehicle with no broken or fractured bones? GTFOH.
I thought the exact same thing!!
Lally wouldn’t know the truth if it sideswiped him into a pirouette.
Have a great time at the concert. Thank you for streaming today.
If the defense objected to Lally's leading questions as often as he objects to theirs, we would atill be on the second CW witness. I know it's a legitimate objection, but it's hypocritical coming from someone who couldn't ask a non-leading question to save his life. Also, Brian Loughran needs to be protected at all costs, he is an absolutely lovely man who just told what he knew, simply and clearly. I thought I disliked Lally before..... it's nothing compared to how much I can't stand him after his attitude towards the defense witnesses. I would be shocked if he didn't put off most, if not all, of the jurors.
Agreed! He asked leading questions the throughout entire examination of every witness, it was so painful 😣
You are the real deal it's a pleasure to watch your show ✌️👍🙏
I was attacked by a dog when I was 7. It was lucky I put my arms over my head and neck. The injuries I got were to the inner arms because I put my arms where I did. Nothing else was bitten. I needed stitches and still have the scar to this day.
Wow that’s traumatic‼️‼️ Glad to hear you’re doing okay 👍🏽
@@kawehionalani I am over 40 now 😂😂 for some reason I never got a fear for dogs.
I was bitten by a Pit Bull when I was in my twenties. He went straight for my neck. I put my head down just enough that his upper canine tooth got caught on my jaw bone. The lower tooth punctured my neck right in front of my windpipe. I was lucky I ducked just enough that he caught my jaw. I don't think I would be here otherwise. The guy who owned the dog was a huge misogynist. I was with that dog for at least two hours with no problems, and then he came and sat down next to me with the dog by him. He started messing around with the dog for just a few minutes, and then suddenly the dog lunged at me.
A year later, I was tending bar and my manager told me not to serve him hard liquor because she'd had problems with him before. He literally stood up on his bar stool and tried to punch me in the face. I had just enough room to back up and be just out of reach. My manager threw him out and told him to never come back. I never blamed the dog, just him. Unfortunately, it left me with a fear of large dogs.
@@zxy78267 Now that is completely traumatizing...
I was bitten by a pit bull when I was 9 on my face. It first bit my hand and then lunged towards my face and got me in the cheek. Wouldn't let go until my cousin pulled him off me. I know not all pit bulls are vicious but I'm still traumatized 30 years later.
I know only what EDB has taught me about law but listening to the requirements for the CW, they absolutely did not meet them for this case to continue!!!
I’ve been teaching my 8 year old students about the probability scale. They understand an event cannot be likely and unlikely at the same time, even though they don’t have fancy degrees.
68 witnesses, 29 days and the state rests with us knowing what? It was snowing…. Definitely snowing. 🤦🏻♀️
😂
So it couldn't be an animal attack because injuries were only on one arm, but it could be hit by a 6,000lb vehicle because injuries were only on one arm. Ummmmmmmmm.🙃
If she was in trial for killing John through her phone maybe you could convince a jury but convincing anyone with any type of logical reasoning how how a 7000 pound object hit a human weighing 216 pounds in the arm without any obstruction behind him like a wall or a vehicle and threw him 30 feet and his arm violently broke durable polycarbonate into 45 pieces and these pieces cut his arm at a close distance and no other injuries other than ground contact injuries is ridiculous and as far fetched as a cover up is that is infinitely more likely than this physics defying theory.
A few years ago my best friend was in an accident on his motorcycle. Basically the car in front of him stopped VERY suddenly and he had to swerve to avoid going face first into the back of that car. In that swerve, his leg clipped the car. It was at relatively low speed (25-30 mph). He shattered his femur. The medical term that the doctor used was that his bone was dust. There is NO way that I believe Trooper Paul saying that KR's van clipped JOK's arm at that speed without leaving broken bones and massive contusions.
You stated this more clearly than the CW. But even with all that, how did his arm not break or have bruises and what has object did back of his head hit when he landed? Cuz they all said snow wasn't sticking till about 12 so I struggle to believe ground was THAT frozen! I live in NY and it's like all night at cold temps to freeze the ground like that. They should argue a rock in the lawn! And then where is all the blood, besides 6 drops?? And how did his blood drip down his clothes and jeans, not to the back of his clothes, like shouldn't even get to the jeans??
@@origamikiddo2625 if she hit him with that car it did not happen how they are trying to explain how it did. They buried themselves in to a murder charge and all the reality based ways she could have hit would clearly show it was complete accident and she didn’t know. They tried to make everything about the car for into their theory for all we know that dent may have been for months and the scratches are from when she hit his car. I am 100% convinced the driver trooper’s without a doubt tampered with evidence and broke pieces off her light to make the case stronger. If his his head made contact with either where the dent is or taillight there would be tissue on the car and or pieces. I don’t really think that family had anything to do with anything they are just dumb and did things that make them look suspicious to try to get rid of things that could maybe point at them. Those troopers, Higgins, and that police chief that is hiding messed with that taillight to make evidence point at her. No taillight made arm wounds it would take a lot more velocity for them to cut someone, glass pieces could but no tissue on the glass. Maybe he just fell his alcohol level was real high he wouldn’t be the first to slip fall and die and wouldn’t be the last. It makes me wonder if they found him with same injuries and instead of taillight pieces it was empty bullet casing would they claim she shot him without leaving bullet wounds in him. All the other stuff means nothing without reconciling the how the car hit him, this shouldn’t even be in a court.
This cross by Lally is the worst!!! He is SUCH a petulant child! SO UNPROFESSIONAL!!!
Even his babysitter got mad at him.
@@heftyhefty_ 🤣
Also the ME’s little smile between 24-25 minutes somewhere (when discussing that this could’ve been claws) is SO telling. You can tell this woman wants none of this nonsense and very likely believes the defense.
I thought the way Lally spoke to the plow driver was just terrible
I’ve just started watching tech expert Richard Green and he seems like such a sweetheart and so knowledgeable so far. I really like his demeanour 💜
Mr Loughran’s testimony was an entirely different experience to any of the CW civilian witnesses. I found him endearing and extremely genuine. Could he have missed a body on the lawn? Yeah I guess it’s possible. Do I believe him though? Definitely. Compare Yannetti and Loughran to Lally and Jen. 💀
How much more pleasant the Defense witnesses versus CW witnesses… 😊
For me, all the evidence points to John being attacked. Not hit by a car.
Oh, I totally agree. I think Chloe did attack him. Dr. Russell started to say she thought John O’Keefe had most likely raised his arm in a defensive gesture to block his face. That’s why Chloe didn’t attack any other part of his body. He used his arm as a shield. It makes perfect sense he would have all those scratches and bites on him. As Dr. Russell stated not every dog bite is going to go through the skin to the bone. Many of them are superficial, but can still cause significant trauma.
The swabbing of the clothing was supper crappy swabbing. So, the swabbing coming back negative holds little water for me!
The swabs are Garbage In - no evidence out
Not to mention all the chain of custody issues with this investigation
Same here!
Wow Dr. Russell is impressive. She seemed very intellectually curious and accomplished. She has every type of experience needed to testify in this mysterious case.
I get the feeling that this trial might be the "kiss of death" for a lot of people's careers...🤷🏻♀️
Let’s hope. They deserve to be unemployed.
You can only hope!! I would love to see the Alberts, Mccabes, Higgins and Proctor behind bars!!! Where they belong!
You have more hope than I… this was made public so we know, I’m certain it happens a lot more than we know
Love you Dr. Russell! You are a bad ass!❤
I wish…but unfortunately probably not 😢
I AM SO MAD 🤦♀️...
that they didnt let Dr Russell keep explaining the injury patterns on the arm. 🙄
The pattern near the wrist is the one that she explained that sealed the deal for me. I had seen another expert online explain it too, exactly as she did. 2 larger parralel lines (potentially the large upper canine teeth) with a few smaller lines in between (likely the small row of small teeth between the canines, scraping the skin) all slightly laid in a rounded pattern like the shape of a canine jaw... 🤷♀️
Do you happen to remember their name? Was it a man who looked to be between 30-40? I have been trying to remember his name and watch his video again. Thank you 😊
@@Sweetpea064 The one I watched was @AmericanStandardK9 He was on a 29min video on Attorney Melanie Little's UA-cam Channel, posted 3months ago.
Not to mention that if the taillight did the damage, the cuts would’ve had to have been up the arm, not across it like they were. The width of the cuts along his arm are wider than the taillight so it’s physically impossible unless the shards from it drug up his arm, which they clearly didn’t considering they’re perpendicular to the way they should’ve been
@@Sweetpea064 I replied to this last night and seems my comment disappeared 😕
@@Sweetpea064 something im typing seems to be flagging to remove my replies 🤦♀️name is American Standard K9
Thank you so much for your absolutely laser focused legal commentary and precise and colorful sarcasm !!!
May we all bow down to Dr Russell’s awesomeness!
How, if John O'Keefe was side swiped by the taillight at an angle on the right side of the SUV, did he spin counterclockwise to the left across the path of the vehicle and land 30 feet away? Newtons third law - for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction! So the body would be forced in the opposite direction it was struck, not spin into the force of impact. Like when you throw a ball against the wall. It bounces back in an opposite and equal direction.
Yeah, not a credible representation of a hit. He could've been hit in any way, then staggered a few feet to land somewhere else.
that's because in the Troopah Paul Multiverse, what if anything and everything is possible. Even turning against the sense of rotation imparted by a force. Why? "Because it happened."
CW's witnesses were short of a circus, bar for a couple.
@Tracy they’re trying to add more impact to account for his head injuries and arm injuries. Being struck by a vehicle at 24mph isn’t going to land him where he ended up, it isn’t going to give him the injuries he sustained. They had to add all those damn extra impacts to make it “make sense.”
Physics don’t apply in Massachusetts. Ask Bev. She kept out the biomechanics expert on a technicality.
Lally is so unpleasant in cross examination- why is he coming after every witness like they’re lying idiots?
Yes!! After all his blustering about the defense, he's coming off nasty. There have been plenty of times I thought Jackson/Yanetti came off too strong but he's on a different level
He’s so nasty to credible, smart, likable witnesses! The defense came it hot for unreliable, unlikable witnesses!
Lucky reminds me of Isaac Baruch from the Depp trial. He’s known the Albert’s for years and was clear and believable and I put more faith in his words than anything the CW has presented.
Go EDB 775K subscribers 💜💜that is over 50,000 since KR began
Were I a juror in this case, I would be furious that I had to sit thru this completely unproven case. There’s no possible way anyone can say with certainty that her vehicle killed him.
I wonder if that's why the defense is zoom zooming. They don't need to prove anything and just need to create doubt. They did a great job in the CW what's left?
I do want a map. I hope we get something in closing.
Lally is asking the Dr, who is brilliant and has experience, about analyzing photographs when his 'expert' witness didn’t know physics well and made his conclusions/calculations on hearsay!!??
You are so good at what you do!!! For real!!!
775K congratulations
If the medical examiners deems the cause of death undetermined how can they charge some body for murder if it's not conclusive that there was even a homicide.
In Texas, it doesn’t matter how much evidence the police have- if the ME report has a Manner of Death that is UNDETERMINED- no charges can be filed!
I like Mr Snow Plow.
I watched it earlier but man I'm not wasting my time next time without your commentary. You explain so much.
Yeah I don’t care that much about actually watching it live, I just watch EDB when I’m available 💜💜
An EMT/RN, under trauma circumstances, wouldn't even remotely consider starting an IV in the hand. Not even for a second.
Under this condition, his body was too cold and blood flow basically nonexistent, they would go for AT LEAST 18g anticubitals in order to provide fluid and blood at high rates.
ALL IV attempts would have been clearly documented to prevent the questions and confusion we are discussing.
This doesn't account for ridiculous incompetence of course.
I think it's pretty clear that Karen is innocent
You gained a loyal follower for life with this coverage Emily. I stumbled upon you and I really look forward to rewatching these every night. You do a great job and give a great insight. I agree with everything you say lol. you’re funny too and I really enjoy your commentary!! :)
Me too
Emily, you rock. Hopefully you are having a blast at the concert right now!! You’re a hard working mama and deserve everything wonderful.
2:14:06 yay Dr Russel 🎉🎉💜My favorite witness in this trial 💜
Dr. Russell!! Wow!!
I love your commentary. Please try to comment when you pause the coverage so we can hear both the lawyers questions and witness’ answers. Thank you.
Lally speaking clearly, loudly and speedily makes me wonder if he was slow, quiet and muffled on purpose to delay for some reason.
Its telling how a witness who simply answers questions, confirms relationships and the events is so credible. It also massively questions the previous witnesses who act in a conpletely different way.
Lally questioning whether it's "normal" for a dog attack to only have injuries to one area of the body but also wants us to believe that someone getting hit by a car at 24mph and flying 30 feet only has injuries to his head and scratches on one arm lmao
Mic drop
Lally’s response to the motion is so delulu
As far as KR text to John 53 times and the content of her voicemail I can totally relate! Been there done that more than once.
To me- they showed that she had no idea he was injured and believed that he was out cheating. They were not helpful to the CW AT ALL!! IMO🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
The judge at the very least should have dismissed the murder 2 charge. There has been ZERO evidence that she intentionally hit John o’keefe.
I love Dr. Russell. ❤️
Lally does not know how to read a room. Sadly I’ve seen better junior attorneys in trial that are nervous get it better than him.
Lally is being very rude! I am glad the judge is jumping on him! He had nothing so he’s resorting to being a bully. Dr. Russell is not being a hostile witness. I wonder if the jury is turned off
I believe the plow driver he has no reason to lie. He seems trustworthy. Was his interview with the LE recorded?