It's all just a question of money. The kind of parts you need to make an engine double it's redline are all custom anyways so it does not really matter that the 2gr is not technically "supported". But I'll put this on the list of potential future topics.
Thanks so much for testing this. Confirmed, I will keep intake type #1 ! Your flashed ECU rocks BTW. Also following the new exhaust headers closely (which are very well designed!), to add proper cats eventually.
Really makes me wonder why #2 made a little more power in my test. Maybe something about the newer tune evens out the differences? Regardless, nice to see that they are so close to equal, will really open up the options for people wanting to ditch the #3 style.
Just as you said, there has been a major tune change since your tests but the difference between #1 and #2 has always been very small even with your tests. The #2 intake was getting quite expensive anyways and the #1 is out there in much higher volumes so that should be easily available for the foreseeable future. Were your manifold tests back to back on the same day?
@@FrankensteinMotorworks yeah, just like yours, although I ran #1 first. But I swapped them with the car strapped to the dyno. Regardless, I added a note to my blog with a link to this video, I don't want people to be hunting down the #2 manifolds if there isn't any benefit.
@@WilhelmRaceWorks You know, i wonder if the order is what happened. It seems to take 3-4 runs before the dyno starts returning the exact same number for every pull and usually the horsepower climbs by a few horses over those 3-4 runs. I don't know what causes that but it is pretty consistent. I wonder if that's the kind of thing that happened with your results? but i'd probably bet on the tune change more than anything else.
Very good, very good! Those new hearts seen to add some nice numbers into of the 1-2 intakes. I also might need to have cats on my headers for a Victorian engineering certificate, so they're very interesting now....
The TVIS could use being turned on about 200rpm earlier or so but i haven't figured out how to do that in the stock ECU yet. But the loss is minor so i haven't looked too hard.
There's really no easy way to do this and because the 2GR-FSE really does not have a knock problem at all it really won't gain anything from E85. Plus, once you compensate for the fact that E85 has about 30% less energy than normal gasoline it ends up usually costing more per gallon.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks thank you for your reply. I emailed RR Racing and he said my car really benefits with 30% e85 and the rest 98ron??? im very confused now???? shrugs
@@lordbuckethead2022 that's a decision for you to make. just keep in mind a few things. 98Ron is equal to 94(R+M/2) which is the rating used in the USA. I'm assuming you're in the USA since that's where E85 is most prevalent. If you aren't you should look up your own local conversion because gasoline is rated differently in different parts of the world. Next, keep in mind that "30% E85" with the balance being premium is a pretty wide range of ethanol. It'll depend on your state but federally they've updated the requirement to 51% ethanol all the way to 83% ethanol and the premium fuel in some parts of the country has 0%, some has 10%. so "30% E85"/ balance as premium can result in anywhere from 5.6% ethanol to 25% ethanol. In your owner's manual on page 523 you will see "use only gasoline containing up to 15% ethanol". This means that the good news is your car is compatible with ethanol in the gasoline so you won't swell any seals in the fuel system. Unfortunately the IS350 does not have an alcohol sensor so it has to use the oxygen sensor to react to the fuel content. gasoline with 25% ethanol will require about +8% fuel trim to be operating at stoichiometric. The ECU will allow up to + or - 35% fuel trim so the car will certainly still run even at the max 25% ethanol content. Over the years in the MR2 platform i've found that fuel trims within 5% allow the ECU to run much better. i generally target -3%. This is because the fuel tip-in is not trimmed so when you increase the throttle by a large amount very quickly it injects a calculated amount of fuel to prevent the engine from going lean during the tip-in transition. The -3% allows just a tiny more tip in fuel and i find that this makes for a very crisp throttle response. It is a very noticeable difference when you drive the car. This is why i spent all the money to make this very precise MAF sample tube that flows more air and more importantly so i could put the MR2s on a very precise fuel trim ( frankensteinmotorworks.squarespace.com/shop/2gr-fe-maf-pipe note: do not use this without a trimmed MAF curve, it will generally result in terrible fuel trims and usually even lean error codes)
@@mushlove6933 right, it gives better data which is better in theory. In the end i'm not convinced it makes a huge difference but i still like running them. I even have one on my race car.
Thanks for doing this and your contribution to the 2GR Community!
I'm just over here playing with giant toys :) glad you guys have fun watching this
forget the intake manifold let’s develop some ITBs
Agreed
Thanks for clearing that up. Im really digging the experimentation videos
Glad you like them!
Is that the same motor as the one in the lexus gs350? If so are they're any performance air intakes?
The GS350 uses the 2GR-FSE engine which sounds very close but is actually quite different.
Can you talk about High RPM 2GR's like 9k, 10k or 12k if its possible?
It's all just a question of money. The kind of parts you need to make an engine double it's redline are all custom anyways so it does not really matter that the 2gr is not technically "supported". But I'll put this on the list of potential future topics.
Thanks so much for testing this. Confirmed, I will keep intake type #1 ! Your flashed ECU rocks BTW. Also following the new exhaust headers closely (which are very well designed!), to add proper cats eventually.
Yeah, we always knew that #1 and #2 were close but this was much closer than we thought. The difference is really too small to say which one is best.
Really makes me wonder why #2 made a little more power in my test. Maybe something about the newer tune evens out the differences? Regardless, nice to see that they are so close to equal, will really open up the options for people wanting to ditch the #3 style.
Just as you said, there has been a major tune change since your tests but the difference between #1 and #2 has always been very small even with your tests. The #2 intake was getting quite expensive anyways and the #1 is out there in much higher volumes so that should be easily available for the foreseeable future. Were your manifold tests back to back on the same day?
@@FrankensteinMotorworks yeah, just like yours, although I ran #1 first. But I swapped them with the car strapped to the dyno.
Regardless, I added a note to my blog with a link to this video, I don't want people to be hunting down the #2 manifolds if there isn't any benefit.
@@WilhelmRaceWorks You know, i wonder if the order is what happened. It seems to take 3-4 runs before the dyno starts returning the exact same number for every pull and usually the horsepower climbs by a few horses over those 3-4 runs. I don't know what causes that but it is pretty consistent. I wonder if that's the kind of thing that happened with your results? but i'd probably bet on the tune change more than anything else.
Which is better ?
Thanks for the video Marc.
Yo how is it been!?
Have you seen any alternate intake manifolds for the 2GR-FSE?
Very good, very good! Those new hearts seen to add some nice numbers into of the 1-2 intakes.
I also might need to have cats on my headers for a Victorian engineering certificate, so they're very interesting now....
yeah, making room for catalytic converters should be handy for a lot of people, it should be a nice step forward for the community.
3 videos in one day 🙏, is tunning the tvis worth even trying? And is there any intake manifold fabrication in the future?
The TVIS could use being turned on about 200rpm earlier or so but i haven't figured out how to do that in the stock ECU yet. But the loss is minor so i haven't looked too hard.
I was kind of listening to this video on my second monitor while doing school work and the fast forward dyno pulls caught me off guard lol
I'm only going to let you guys sit through normal speed dyno pulls so many time. nobody has time for that
By unplugging the connector on the #3, does it constantly use the short or long runners?
unplugging it leaves it in short runner mode.
That engine has stage 2 cams or its just original engine just ecu end headers ??
Bone stock engine, ECU, headers and a nice short straight through exhaust along with the stock intake manifold and my velocity stack MAF pipe.
You can port those plastic intake manifold?
You really can't reach too far in there and the part that is visible is really quite smooth already.
Thanks so much!
Nice video
Will these fit the 2GR-FSE?
no, the 2GR-FSE has differently shaped intake ports
Thx you, I want to do a flex fuel install on my 2015 is350 f sport. Any tips?
There's really no easy way to do this and because the 2GR-FSE really does not have a knock problem at all it really won't gain anything from E85. Plus, once you compensate for the fact that E85 has about 30% less energy than normal gasoline it ends up usually costing more per gallon.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks thank you for your reply. I emailed RR Racing and he said my car really benefits with 30% e85 and the rest 98ron??? im very confused now???? shrugs
@@lordbuckethead2022 that's a decision for you to make. just keep in mind a few things. 98Ron is equal to 94(R+M/2) which is the rating used in the USA. I'm assuming you're in the USA since that's where E85 is most prevalent. If you aren't you should look up your own local conversion because gasoline is rated differently in different parts of the world.
Next, keep in mind that "30% E85" with the balance being premium is a pretty wide range of ethanol. It'll depend on your state but federally they've updated the requirement to 51% ethanol all the way to 83% ethanol and the premium fuel in some parts of the country has 0%, some has 10%. so "30% E85"/ balance as premium can result in anywhere from 5.6% ethanol to 25% ethanol. In your owner's manual on page 523 you will see "use only gasoline containing up to 15% ethanol". This means that the good news is your car is compatible with ethanol in the gasoline so you won't swell any seals in the fuel system. Unfortunately the IS350 does not have an alcohol sensor so it has to use the oxygen sensor to react to the fuel content. gasoline with 25% ethanol will require about +8% fuel trim to be operating at stoichiometric.
The ECU will allow up to + or - 35% fuel trim so the car will certainly still run even at the max 25% ethanol content.
Over the years in the MR2 platform i've found that fuel trims within 5% allow the ECU to run much better. i generally target -3%. This is because the fuel tip-in is not trimmed so when you increase the throttle by a large amount very quickly it injects a calculated amount of fuel to prevent the engine from going lean during the tip-in transition. The -3% allows just a tiny more tip in fuel and i find that this makes for a very crisp throttle response. It is a very noticeable difference when you drive the car. This is why i spent all the money to make this very precise MAF sample tube that flows more air and more importantly so i could put the MR2s on a very precise fuel trim ( frankensteinmotorworks.squarespace.com/shop/2gr-fe-maf-pipe note: do not use this without a trimmed MAF curve, it will generally result in terrible fuel trims and usually even lean error codes)
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I'm in Australia than you ❤️❤️❤️
Hi Marc, do you run the OEM intake resonator that wilhelm provides with his intake kit?
I did not have it for these tests because this car actually belongs to TCS but i do run it on my own MR2s.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I see! It seems it gives the ECU more accurate info, as Wilhelm's test shows. I dont think it's a deal breaker though. Thanks
@@mushlove6933 right, it gives better data which is better in theory. In the end i'm not convinced it makes a huge difference but i still like running them. I even have one on my race car.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks Nice! I just got mine in the other day. Few more pieces and I can dig into the swap👍 have a nice night!
Now there is a new alloy one you can try!!
I'm not planning on buying one but if someone wanted to let me borrow one for a few weeks i'd be happy to test it and put some numbers to it.
Good stuff!!
Thank you for watching :)
Good work!
Thanks!