GREAT CHANNEL keep on!!! As a pilot and foiler i really like this info, i wish it was simple, but it is not unfortunately. Airplanes started in the beginning with straight wings, leading edge parallel to trailing, a rectangle that when the speed increases it shifts the center of lift ATF, like windsurf sail we can feel it in stronger days or gusts. Concorde a pure DELTA wing does not have stabilizer, yet fast. The vast majority of our current FOILING knowledge comes from aerodynamics which uses compressed gas, some foils are designed from air based software, we have a new brighter future as the community and industry shifts to WATER non compressible based software formulas. I ride Armstrong CF1200 foil with neutral stab, ZERO up or down, and it's perfect, other foils are not so forgiving without an acting downward stab, GREAT CHANNEL keep on!!! Be advised: we will never find a perfect sweet spot as it's personal
THX for sharing, I am missing the talk about thickness and profile. PLS share your experience. In propeller design (most similar application) thickness and wing tip design is everything.
It is nice you come back with some interesting and useful stuff. Missing all those great reviews u did before. Maybe you can start video series about kite racing, small clips on how to get faster, pointing higher and so on. There is so much to explain ;). Thx.
Thanks for another great video. The last couple of days I've been comparing the old Armstrong 50cm fuse to the new A+ which is 52cm on downwingers in Maui. I agree with all you said as far as the effects of the position of the stab, with one subtle difference. It is true that a shorter fuse is easier to pump, but with the longer fuse (even if just 2cm), the pumps are more effective. By that I mean that the distance each pump allows you to travel is greater with the longer fuse. That's the only plus of the longer fuse, I like everything else (and overall) the short one, which is just more fun and surfy. Cheers.
Very nicely explained 🙏 Recently I tested a combination of an old big front wing and a new small stabilizer (bought for a small front wing). I can get on the foil easily but after the small increase in speed, the nose of the board wants to dive down. I wanted to double-check if this is expected behaviour to know if a new bigger stabilizer (same model as the small one) will help.
Great videos and channel, keep it up. A couple of questions, if I have understood this correctly, the front wing will tend to pull down, and the stabiliser is balancing this with a lift force (this is apart from the front wing producing low pressure to lift the weight of the rider and board up). As you increase your speed, the amount of lift will increase, producing more front foot pressure, but at some critical speed, the front will tend to pull down harder (producing a dive if back foot pressure is not added to control. Is that right?
Thank you for sharing your great knowledge on HF. About the adjustment of the stab and how it performs in different angles. It got me thinking about my own 633 ”onda” kite wings that I built. When I push them hard downwind the foil want sink. So maybe I have to increase the angle on them. What can you tell us about twist for the washout and reduced drag, do all hf wing use that? Is it different if it is a high aspect kite racewing (ML, Banga) or a surf wing?
Good info. Thank you. I have the lift and will stay with the brand. I have the old one piece 200 surf but want to get a high aspect for connecting waves. Trying to figure out what stabilizer for easy efficient pumping and good turning. Any suggestions from their line up? I was thinking the 170 HA, I am 160 lbs and have been having a hard time pumping but love carving
GREAT JOB. QUESTION: i ride axis foils (900 w/ a short or ultra short fuse and a 400 or 340 rear) What would you suggest for steeper shoulder to head high waves? I tend to either dive or dolphin. I weigh 175 . Thanks
Hi, I'm i terested in the science, physics behind the trailing edge effect on foil behaviour for my research paper for the school. Where can I get a reliable, scientficaly explained information? I need tp both: show an understandment of the topic in physics and conduct an experiment, and I want to be as precise as possible. Thanks!
Hi Gunnar For my wing foiling here on the Dutch North Sea I'm currently using - Mast M82 - Front Wing W945 (light wind, small waves) and W799 (stronger wind, higher waves) - Stabilizer S483 - Fuselage F700HS With both front wings, I have noticed that when going down higher waves (higher speed) that my front foot pressure increases to such a degree that I cannot control the front wing anymore... With the provided (negative) shims of SABFoil, this effect is even increased... I would need the contrary, positive shims! For now I've added a piece of credit card between the back of the stabilizer and the fuselage, which rather improved things... I now have a more stable front foot pressure at all speeds. What's your opinion on this? Any other advice you could give me? Could you recommend another stabilizer? S399? S425? Or the new S430 or S380? Love to hear from you!
If you want to have straight line speed, would you want a longer fuselage for pitch dampening, a stabiliser with winglets or curves to produce yam dampening, and a high aspect stabiliser that has sufficient size that continues to control the front wing pitch down at higher speeds? I know it is difficult to simplify, but if you are only wanting speed and not pump or turn, then this is what I understand from this video. Thanks for any comments or feedback.
Hi Francis, Not. Longer fuselage will be slower das the drag from the stabiliser will increase exponentially with distance from front wings. For straight line speed you need a short fuselage with a slightly larger (or more powerful) stabiliser. If you look at current Kitefoil Race designs you can see what is needed for top speeds and control. If your skill allows you can also be faster without winglets on the stabiliser, but that will come at the cost of control.
@@GunnarBiniaschthank you for the helpful information! I have a beginner wing foil setup and was looking to make it feel more playful without breaking the bank. It's a 2021 Naish Jet foil 1650 front wing and 450 rear with a long 80cm fuselage. I thought a smaller HA style rear wing would possibly loosen up the handling but it sounds like that wouldn't help as much as a shorter fuselage?
They are a cheap way of getting some jaw resistance into the stabiliser without having to have winglets. Winglets cost more and are trickier to produce. The V stabs work ok as surf foils but they drag more and do not pump as well as flat stabilisers. Another issue is that they hang up more on the reef or ground as the increase your depth at the tail by almost 4cm in some cases.
They don't. The very first Gong foil way back in the day had a positive lift stabiliser and that foil did not work. The current Gongs have a negative stabiliser.
Gunnar Biniasch ok I’m confused. Both the wing and the stabiliser curve downward with this one in the link, different to yours in the video? www.gong-galaxy.com/produit/gong-wingfoil-allvator-curve-full-carbon/
@@alexfuller818 Sorry. I thought you meant the profile. Yes. Some Stabilisers curve down (Anhedral) and some Curve up (Dihedral). The theory is to give you a bit of yaw stability without having to have winglets or a fin (Rudder). It is not a very efficient way of doing it and the lack of yaw resistance will allow the foil to drift sideways when yawed hard. Something you don't really want in waves. Most brands have nowadays gone to Straight Stabilisers with Winglets or a small rudder holding them up, or even a combo of both.
Is it possible to mount S421 with W633 in order to gain some more speed?, Is it possible to mount in the same fuselage?, I'm actually with W633-S483 with T22 board and max speed doesn't exceed 21 knots
Yes. The Kite Stabilisers can all be mounted on the 710 Surf Fuselage. I Ride with the 421 quite often. See this video with the 790 and 421 combo ua-cam.com/video/4Kwvsh5jIOs/v-deo.html You should be able to go at least 25 knots with the 633/483. I have been over 30 on that setup.
GREAT CHANNEL keep on!!! As a pilot and foiler i really like this info, i wish it was simple, but it is not unfortunately. Airplanes started in the beginning with straight wings, leading edge parallel to trailing, a rectangle that when the speed increases it shifts the center of lift ATF, like windsurf sail we can feel it in stronger days or gusts. Concorde a pure DELTA wing does not have stabilizer, yet fast. The vast majority of our current FOILING knowledge comes from aerodynamics which uses compressed gas, some foils are designed from air based software, we have a new brighter future as the community and industry shifts to WATER non compressible based software formulas. I ride Armstrong CF1200 foil with neutral stab, ZERO up or down, and it's perfect, other foils are not so forgiving without an acting downward stab, GREAT CHANNEL keep on!!! Be advised: we will never find a perfect sweet spot as it's personal
Thank you Gunnar!
It is great to see you sharing all the best knowledge. Really appreciate your videos!!!
THX for sharing, I am missing the talk about thickness and profile.
PLS share your experience. In propeller design (most similar application) thickness and wing tip design is everything.
It is nice you come back with some interesting and useful stuff. Missing all those great reviews u did before. Maybe you can start video series about kite racing, small clips on how to get faster, pointing higher and so on. There is so much to explain ;). Thx.
Thanks. That was my plan. but I don't have any race gear at the moment. It will have to wait.
Thanks for another great video. The last couple of days I've been comparing the old Armstrong 50cm fuse to the new A+ which is 52cm on downwingers in Maui. I agree with all you said as far as the effects of the position of the stab, with one subtle difference. It is true that a shorter fuse is easier to pump, but with the longer fuse (even if just 2cm), the pumps are more effective. By that I mean that the distance each pump allows you to travel is greater with the longer fuse. That's the only plus of the longer fuse, I like everything else (and overall) the short one, which is just more fun and surfy. Cheers.
Thanks. My user foil guide says one thing. All the pics I see of the foil show the opposite. This helps.
very informative, thank you!
Very nicely explained 🙏
Recently I tested a combination of an old big front wing and a new small stabilizer (bought for a small front wing). I can get on the foil easily but after the small increase in speed, the nose of the board wants to dive down. I wanted to double-check if this is expected behaviour to know if a new bigger stabilizer (same model as the small one) will help.
Great videos and channel, keep it up. A couple of questions, if I have understood this correctly, the front wing will tend to pull down, and the stabiliser is balancing this with a lift force (this is apart from the front wing producing low pressure to lift the weight of the rider and board up). As you increase your speed, the amount of lift will increase, producing more front foot pressure, but at some critical speed, the front will tend to pull down harder (producing a dive if back foot pressure is not added to control. Is that right?
Thank you for sharing your great knowledge on HF.
About the adjustment of the stab and how it performs in different angles. It got me thinking about my own 633 ”onda” kite wings that I built. When I push them hard downwind the foil want sink. So maybe I have to increase the angle on them.
What can you tell us about twist for the washout and reduced drag, do all hf wing use that? Is it different if it is a high aspect kite racewing (ML, Banga) or a surf wing?
Good info. Thank you. I have the lift and will stay with the brand. I have the old one piece 200 surf but want to get a high aspect for connecting waves. Trying to figure out what stabilizer for easy efficient pumping and good turning. Any suggestions from their line up? I was thinking the 170 HA, I am 160 lbs and have been having a hard time pumping but love carving
GREAT JOB. QUESTION: i ride axis foils (900 w/ a short or ultra short fuse and a 400 or 340 rear) What would you suggest for steeper shoulder to head high waves? I tend to either dive or dolphin. I weigh 175 . Thanks
Hi, I'm i terested in the science, physics behind the trailing edge effect on foil behaviour for my research paper for the school. Where can I get a reliable, scientficaly explained information? I need tp both: show an understandment of the topic in physics and conduct an experiment, and I want to be as precise as possible. Thanks!
Hi Gunnar
For my wing foiling here on the Dutch North Sea I'm currently using
- Mast M82
- Front Wing W945 (light wind, small waves) and W799 (stronger wind, higher waves)
- Stabilizer S483
- Fuselage F700HS
With both front wings, I have noticed that when going down higher waves (higher speed) that my front foot pressure increases to such a degree that I cannot control the front wing anymore...
With the provided (negative) shims of SABFoil, this effect is even increased... I would need the contrary, positive shims!
For now I've added a piece of credit card between the back of the stabilizer and the fuselage, which rather improved things... I now have a more stable front foot pressure at all speeds.
What's your opinion on this?
Any other advice you could give me?
Could you recommend another stabilizer? S399? S425? Or the new S430 or S380?
Love to hear from you!
If you want to have straight line speed, would you want a longer fuselage for pitch dampening, a stabiliser with winglets or curves to produce yam dampening, and a high aspect stabiliser that has sufficient size that continues to control the front wing pitch down at higher speeds? I know it is difficult to simplify, but if you are only wanting speed and not pump or turn, then this is what I understand from this video. Thanks for any comments or feedback.
Hi Francis, Not. Longer fuselage will be slower das the drag from the stabiliser will increase exponentially with distance from front wings. For straight line speed you need a short fuselage with a slightly larger (or more powerful) stabiliser. If you look at current Kitefoil Race designs you can see what is needed for top speeds and control. If your skill allows you can also be faster without winglets on the stabiliser, but that will come at the cost of control.
@@GunnarBiniasch Thanks Gunnar, the videos and comments are a great resource, thanks for your effort, will sort you a coffee, keep the videos coming.
@@GunnarBiniaschthank you for the helpful information! I have a beginner wing foil setup and was looking to make it feel more playful without breaking the bank. It's a 2021 Naish Jet foil 1650 front wing and 450 rear with a long 80cm fuselage. I thought a smaller HA style rear wing would possibly loosen up the handling but it sounds like that wouldn't help as much as a shorter fuselage?
7:50 : add a shim on the front. When the stab is under the fuse I guess :)
what's the benefit of V stabilizers like on the Gofoil and NP Glide ?
They are a cheap way of getting some jaw resistance into the stabiliser without having to have winglets. Winglets cost more and are trickier to produce. The V stabs work ok as surf foils but they drag more and do not pump as well as flat stabilisers. Another issue is that they hang up more on the reef or ground as the increase your depth at the tail by almost 4cm in some cases.
How is it some of the brands stabiliser are the same way up as the front wing? On the Gong foils for example.
They don't. The very first Gong foil way back in the day had a positive lift stabiliser and that foil did not work. The current Gongs have a negative stabiliser.
Gunnar Biniasch ok I’m confused. Both the wing and the stabiliser curve downward with this one in the link, different to yours in the video? www.gong-galaxy.com/produit/gong-wingfoil-allvator-curve-full-carbon/
@@alexfuller818 Sorry. I thought you meant the profile. Yes. Some Stabilisers curve down (Anhedral) and some Curve up (Dihedral). The theory is to give you a bit of yaw stability without having to have winglets or a fin (Rudder). It is not a very efficient way of doing it and the lack of yaw resistance will allow the foil to drift sideways when yawed hard. Something you don't really want in waves. Most brands have nowadays gone to Straight Stabilisers with Winglets or a small rudder holding them up, or even a combo of both.
Is it possible to mount S421 with W633 in order to gain some more speed?, Is it possible to mount in the same fuselage?, I'm actually with W633-S483 with T22 board and max speed doesn't exceed 21 knots
Yes. The Kite Stabilisers can all be mounted on the 710 Surf Fuselage. I Ride with the 421 quite often. See this video with the 790 and 421 combo ua-cam.com/video/4Kwvsh5jIOs/v-deo.html
You should be able to go at least 25 knots with the 633/483. I have been over 30 on that setup.