These all seem like good tweaks to make to an already well-designed spirit! I hope you keep these coming, I find this kind of content super interesting even if it isn't super practical.
Nice video discussion. I appreciate your input and your contributions. You really continue to breath love and life into the spirit island community. I hope you have it in your to keep doing this for a long time. 😊
Love this video!! I’ve been experimenting with SBW a lot recently, probably my most played spirit. Part of me thinks people undervalue the spirit, so I really tried to limit test the spirit this past week, and I must say most of your comments are spot on! The change I like most from you is the change from gift to exaltation. When I’m in a multiplayer game, it feels a little selfish and underwhelming to play windsped steps on myself every time, when the card actually has massive potential when you see that a lot of innate powers have a random push or gather thrown in the text 😂. For example, giving it to Lure or Snake for their innates can almost change the play style of the spirit to a far more aggressive spirit, and I think to myself how cool would it be if we could both benefit from the card, thus creating more combos and making whirlwind almost have a unique place among all the spirits as a great enabler (similar to green). Whirlwind has two gift cards, so it always struck me as more of a supportive spirit anyways. One thing I’ll say, is that this spirit never felt like a low complexity spirit to me to begin with. Compared to other control centric low complexity spirits, the amount of build paths and combos you can do with whirlwind can require a lot of foresight, as well as the innate itself is pretty tricky to use (compared to low complexity spirits). I almost wish they had let this spirit be moderate complexity, and then add more cool things to it because it has become one of my favorite spirits in the game. Sorry for the rambling, love that you did this video on SBW tho! Spirit needs more love 😭
This was very interesting, thank you! I do think that the first 2 topics you talked about, those being changes to the power cards, have a lot to do with what I assume is your preferred playstyle of each spirit handling its own board first giving very occasional suport in the form of gifts or boons (what some call soloperative). In my experience, I actually like the design of those 2 cards since I really like the game to make it suboptimal to play that way and "force" my group to look at the whole island together. This is very much an pinion thing though, so since these cards don't suport your preferred play styles, it makes sense that you would suggest a change. But I just wanted to point out that people such as myself might prefer it, as it encourages my preferred playstyle instead. Still, I really liked that part of the discussion and it helps to understand all different parts of the game better. I really loved the discussion about the balance changes to the presence tracks too, that was very interesting and a really valuable way to think about spirits, thanks!
I'll be honest, I voted against this in the poll but okay you've changed my mind. This was actually really interesting. Glad you're doing this and excited to see you go through the other spirits.
I think having some fear available is huge and important buff, I agree that 2 cost card should also have a fear. England 6 (actual England 6 rule) is the silent killer, people think England 5 is killing then when actually England 6 is shortening their clock to solve the game. Having little to no fear really hurts spirits into England. I think River should beat England 5, 6 is the issue. I would love to see a teeth England game. Sounds rough but interesting.
Could be a fun series. I know a lot of people have different ideas of what could/should be changed about the spirits. I think you might be better off doing these revisions in the SpiritIsland builder. Trying to track changes on TTS with limited tools is hard to follow. I think it might also be worthwhile uploading the changes and trying it out in a few games before showing off what you think is the best choice. SBW seems pretty well done to me, so its a bit of an odd place to start. Its really one of the best designed 011 spirits in my opinion. His biggest problem remains the England matchup, but thats really something you can fix without rewriting the entire spirit. I think its ok for 011 spirits to not have insane tracks if the secondary effects on the growth options pick up the slack. To me the +4 energy (and to a lesser extend the 4 range presence on G3) is one of the selling points of the Spirit, and enabling early majors even while working the bottom track. I do agree that the spirit has a big hole with that sun on the top track, but I don't know that I want to supercharge the two spots after it. It would probably have been fine if they just swapped the sun and air on the top track, but I'm assuming they wanted the inverse of the bottom. Top tracks in general struggle in my opinion, but a lot of that just comes from it being difficult to escalate random overpriced majors rather than the track itself. I'd also like to add that I think its important to identify the weaknesses of the spirit and make sure that the changes aren't eliminating them. Most of the spirits are designed with an obstacle to overcome. For SBW, that tends to be its complete lack of fear generation. While adding a couple of points of fear to his total doesn't break him, it does feel very 'off brand' for the spirit. I thought the statements about 'Rampant Green and Starlight being ok with little fear generation because they can go into fast majors' and 'SBW has too much energy' somewhat contradictory. I don't feel like I'm as strong a player as you are, but perhaps earlier majors are more practical than you are giving the spirit credit for?
I'll look at SI builder for some of the more advanced cases. I chose SBWW because it was easiest to make the changes I wanted. Changes to a spirit like River would be massive. The England matchup is consistently unwinnable unless the spirit is given Isolates which would boost it's complexity. My hope is we one day get an aspect for SBWW that would include some isolates in it's kit. I've thought about adjusting the SR, or a power card to introduce this effect. IMO, I've never had issues with presence placement while playing this spirit. My build is usually G3 G3 G2 G1 and you bank up cards. On T3 when you G2, you usually have presence across the island so getting in range here isn't an issue. In the mid-late game I can see G2 being a problem with range, but by then you should be far ahead. I didn't know how to fix top track, until Emily gave the suggestion about pushing the Air forward. I really like this idea. I could also see your proposed idea of swapping the top air and sun. Though I worry that there isn't enough value past the Air (3 energy isn't enough incentive for me to push past the Air spot). I agree, SBWW early majors is a strategy that I haven't put much thought into because the bottom track strategy is so consistent. Something for me to explore in the future.
@@RedReVenge007 Isolates are a pretty good idea. Would definitely make for an interesting aspect. Range for me is more for large games. SBWW is the spirit I use when teaching first time players. It has the most boons, and the range means I can quickly get over to another board and help someone out if they need more direct help. (The problem land is usually a coast - so you need to reach deep into their territory) Its less relevant with fewer players or more competent ones. The big concern I have about your track is that you are moving the weak point to be from going to 5-6 energy. Which would almost always be the last spot you clear. 5 energy a turn plus G2 means SBWW is potentially one of the most energy rich spirits in the game - while still having great plays growth. You could reach 3 plays and 5 energy (with 2 free elements and 3-4 extra cards) by turn 6 - which is a really strong position. You could argue the innate will be a bit weaker leading up to it, but on the other hand, the air element is now easier to reach on the top track as well.
@@BlitkriegsAndCoffee I do agree that it is a lot of energy, but most spirits "win" the game around turn 4/5 (sometimes even earlier). So SBWW gaining crazy amount of energy around turn 6 isn't an issue. Also, most SBWW builds take 1-2 blight to scale. If you are playing top track you'll likely have to take more blight. If I played SBWW with the tracks I proposed, I wouldn't even grab the 5 energy because I think the value of gaining an extra play (3 plays) is so high.
These all seem like good tweaks to make to an already well-designed spirit! I hope you keep these coming, I find this kind of content super interesting even if it isn't super practical.
Nice video discussion. I appreciate your input and your contributions. You really continue to breath love and life into the spirit island community. I hope you have it in your to keep doing this for a long time. 😊
Love the series. I'd love your takes on what are considered "bad" spirits, like Shadows or Teeth.
The last top track spot could be sun + air.
Love this video!! I’ve been experimenting with SBW a lot recently, probably my most played spirit. Part of me thinks people undervalue the spirit, so I really tried to limit test the spirit this past week, and I must say most of your comments are spot on!
The change I like most from you is the change from gift to exaltation. When I’m in a multiplayer game, it feels a little selfish and underwhelming to play windsped steps on myself every time, when the card actually has massive potential when you see that a lot of innate powers have a random push or gather thrown in the text 😂. For example, giving it to Lure or Snake for their innates can almost change the play style of the spirit to a far more aggressive spirit, and I think to myself how cool would it be if we could both benefit from the card, thus creating more combos and making whirlwind almost have a unique place among all the spirits as a great enabler (similar to green). Whirlwind has two gift cards, so it always struck me as more of a supportive spirit anyways.
One thing I’ll say, is that this spirit never felt like a low complexity spirit to me to begin with. Compared to other control centric low complexity spirits, the amount of build paths and combos you can do with whirlwind can require a lot of foresight, as well as the innate itself is pretty tricky to use (compared to low complexity spirits). I almost wish they had let this spirit be moderate complexity, and then add more cool things to it because it has become one of my favorite spirits in the game. Sorry for the rambling, love that you did this video on SBW tho! Spirit needs more love 😭
I'm very interested in more videos about this topic
This was very interesting, thank you!
I do think that the first 2 topics you talked about, those being changes to the power cards, have a lot to do with what I assume is your preferred playstyle of each spirit handling its own board first giving very occasional suport in the form of gifts or boons (what some call soloperative). In my experience, I actually like the design of those 2 cards since I really like the game to make it suboptimal to play that way and "force" my group to look at the whole island together. This is very much an pinion thing though, so since these cards don't suport your preferred play styles, it makes sense that you would suggest a change. But I just wanted to point out that people such as myself might prefer it, as it encourages my preferred playstyle instead. Still, I really liked that part of the discussion and it helps to understand all different parts of the game better.
I really loved the discussion about the balance changes to the presence tracks too, that was very interesting and a really valuable way to think about spirits, thanks!
Absolutely want to see more like these! Great work.
this is a fantastic kind of video, i'd love to see more!
I'll be honest, I voted against this in the poll but okay you've changed my mind. This was actually really interesting. Glad you're doing this and excited to see you go through the other spirits.
I think having some fear available is huge and important buff, I agree that 2 cost card should also have a fear. England 6 (actual England 6 rule) is the silent killer, people think England 5 is killing then when actually England 6 is shortening their clock to solve the game. Having little to no fear really hurts spirits into England. I think River should beat England 5, 6 is the issue.
I would love to see a teeth England game. Sounds rough but interesting.
Could be a fun series. I know a lot of people have different ideas of what could/should be changed about the spirits.
I think you might be better off doing these revisions in the SpiritIsland builder. Trying to track changes on TTS with limited tools is hard to follow. I think it might also be worthwhile uploading the changes and trying it out in a few games before showing off what you think is the best choice.
SBW seems pretty well done to me, so its a bit of an odd place to start. Its really one of the best designed 011 spirits in my opinion. His biggest problem remains the England matchup, but thats really something you can fix without rewriting the entire spirit.
I think its ok for 011 spirits to not have insane tracks if the secondary effects on the growth options pick up the slack. To me the +4 energy (and to a lesser extend the 4 range presence on G3) is one of the selling points of the Spirit, and enabling early majors even while working the bottom track. I do agree that the spirit has a big hole with that sun on the top track, but I don't know that I want to supercharge the two spots after it. It would probably have been fine if they just swapped the sun and air on the top track, but I'm assuming they wanted the inverse of the bottom. Top tracks in general struggle in my opinion, but a lot of that just comes from it being difficult to escalate random overpriced majors rather than the track itself.
I'd also like to add that I think its important to identify the weaknesses of the spirit and make sure that the changes aren't eliminating them. Most of the spirits are designed with an obstacle to overcome. For SBW, that tends to be its complete lack of fear generation. While adding a couple of points of fear to his total doesn't break him, it does feel very 'off brand' for the spirit.
I thought the statements about 'Rampant Green and Starlight being ok with little fear generation because they can go into fast majors' and 'SBW has too much energy' somewhat contradictory. I don't feel like I'm as strong a player as you are, but perhaps earlier majors are more practical than you are giving the spirit credit for?
I'll look at SI builder for some of the more advanced cases.
I chose SBWW because it was easiest to make the changes I wanted. Changes to a spirit like River would be massive.
The England matchup is consistently unwinnable unless the spirit is given Isolates which would boost it's complexity. My hope is we one day get an aspect for SBWW that would include some isolates in it's kit. I've thought about adjusting the SR, or a power card to introduce this effect.
IMO, I've never had issues with presence placement while playing this spirit. My build is usually G3 G3 G2 G1 and you bank up cards. On T3 when you G2, you usually have presence across the island so getting in range here isn't an issue. In the mid-late game I can see G2 being a problem with range, but by then you should be far ahead.
I didn't know how to fix top track, until Emily gave the suggestion about pushing the Air forward. I really like this idea. I could also see your proposed idea of swapping the top air and sun. Though I worry that there isn't enough value past the Air (3 energy isn't enough incentive for me to push past the Air spot).
I agree, SBWW early majors is a strategy that I haven't put much thought into because the bottom track strategy is so consistent. Something for me to explore in the future.
@@RedReVenge007 Isolates are a pretty good idea. Would definitely make for an interesting aspect.
Range for me is more for large games. SBWW is the spirit I use when teaching first time players. It has the most boons, and the range means I can quickly get over to another board and help someone out if they need more direct help. (The problem land is usually a coast - so you need to reach deep into their territory) Its less relevant with fewer players or more competent ones.
The big concern I have about your track is that you are moving the weak point to be from going to 5-6 energy. Which would almost always be the last spot you clear. 5 energy a turn plus G2 means SBWW is potentially one of the most energy rich spirits in the game - while still having great plays growth. You could reach 3 plays and 5 energy (with 2 free elements and 3-4 extra cards) by turn 6 - which is a really strong position. You could argue the innate will be a bit weaker leading up to it, but on the other hand, the air element is now easier to reach on the top track as well.
@@BlitkriegsAndCoffee I do agree that it is a lot of energy, but most spirits "win" the game around turn 4/5 (sometimes even earlier). So SBWW gaining crazy amount of energy around turn 6 isn't an issue. Also, most SBWW builds take 1-2 blight to scale. If you are playing top track you'll likely have to take more blight.
If I played SBWW with the tracks I proposed, I wouldn't even grab the 5 energy because I think the value of gaining an extra play (3 plays) is so high.
Thank for your work! But, I don't agree with you... about these "problems"
Comment