The Handley Page Halifax: Overshadowed by the Lancaster, but still critical to the war effort
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- Опубліковано 27 лис 2024
- Often overshadowed by the Avro Lancaster, the Handley Page Halifax was an extremely important asset to RAF Bomber Command during the Second World War. Designed in the mid/late 1930s, originally as a twin engine bomber, the Halifax would enter service with the RAF in November 1940. Originally powered by the Rolls Royce Merlin engine, once in service the Halifax was found to be underpowered. Thus the Bristol Hercules radial engine was introduced on the Mk.III onwards. The Halifax would serve with distinction throughout World War Two, flying over 75,000 and dropping some 227,610 tons of bombs. It also saw service with Coastal Command, Transport Command and the Airborne Services. The Halifax would fly its last sortie with the RAF in March 1952, and over 6,000 were built. While overshadowed by the Lancaster, the Halifax was just as critical in the Allied war effort and victory in Europe.
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Rickard, J (16 May 2007), Handley Page Halifax: www.historyofwa...
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Books:
Halifax second to none by Victor Bingham
Jane's Fighting Aircraft of World War II
The Encyclopedia of Aircraft of World War II by Paul Eden
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A friend of mine was a Halifax navigator. (He turned 98 in December, 2022.) Knowing that there was a heated rivalry between B-17 and B-24 crewmen in the USAAF, I asked him if there was a similar rivalry between Halifax and Lancaster crewmen in Bomber Command. He thought for a moment and replied, "No, we were just happy to be alive." Brilliant!
That is very interesting and really quite fascinating. No matter their machine they were still faced with the same perils. Lest we forget
@@AntiqueAirshow If in trouble,, the Lancaster was more dangerous than the Halifax.. More difficult to bail out of.
@@javiergilvidal1558lanc flew higher and faster. Halifax was easier to get out of as if in trouble it broke in three.
Seriously not being smug but the halifax wasn't HP's best hour.
Is your friend still alive today?
@@muttman325 My father was a Halifax Pilot with 102 Squadron that flew out of Pocklington in Yorkshire. Starting with Halifax Mk111 bombers. In January 1945, the squadron was supplied with Mark VI Halifax bombers, one of 2 squadrons to receive the Mark VI. The Mark 6 was the fastest of the 4 engine-heavy bombers, some 30mph faster than the Lancaster of the same period with a lower payload.
A good friend of mine flew his damaged Halifax back from Germany, his crew elected to stay with the aircraft, badly shot up the aircraft cartwheeled down the runway, killing everyone except my friend, Who spent the next 6 months in hospital, he kept as a souvenir the aircrafts clock. He was flying in 1939 and did three tours on both Halifax's and Lancs, plus special ops with sterlings going to Norway many tines. Such a remarkable man , it must have taken so much courage to climb aboard and fly into the unknown we owe a great deal to these people. Thank you for the video best regards.
They were extremely brave men, prepared to sacrifice everything for freedom. One couldn't imagine what those crews went through. RIP, Lest we forget.
That is very interesting and fascinating to read, thanks for sharing.
Salute and respect from NZ ✈️🇳🇿
.... and all that, to have England littered with niggas!
My (bank manager ) boss in 1970 never mentioned the war. I only learned of his exploits in the UK Newspapers in 2016 when the story emerged after his children had sold his diary and medals. Eric L Hartley flew the MKII with extra fuel tanks and Mark III radar on U Boat patrol in the Bay of Biscay on 27 September 1943. The aircraft made a low level attack and sunk U-221 which had previously sunk at least 11 allied ships. In the engagement the Halifax was very badly damaged and two of the crew killed. Hartley and the rest of the crew scrambled into a rubber dinghy and survived on minimal rations for 11 days until luckily they were picked up by a destroyer. The newspapers showed a photo of the dinghy and headed the article "they used their underpants to fish" I understand Eric had suffered frostbite etc and then became an instructor. He was a good boss and
he helped me in my career. He was a fine cricketer and Captain at Werneth CC Oldham. He liked most sports.I think he died in the !990s. 1n 1943 he had been posted Missing in action presumed dead.
That is very interesting and fascinating to read. Quite the career. They were brave men, lest we forget. Thank you for sharing
Thanks for this video. This has added to my understanding of the time when my cousin was shot down and died. This is In memory of Sidney Richard Stead, age 24 years, RAAF, 624 Squad. He was P/O on the Halifax Bomber JN960 that was shot down on 27th April, 1944 over the Mediterranean Sea. All 7 of the young crew members perished. 🌺💖 Not forgotten.
Brave men fighting for freedom. RIP, lest we forget.
Interesting to hear that the Halifax had similar development problems as the Lancaster, and that merlins for once weren't the answer(got to be careful with the phrase final solution, even though appropriate here!) and they settled for tha hercules at the end. A fine aircraft. A pity that its history is not more well known. You have definitely helped in putting that right.
It is interesting to see the parallels between the two aircraft. . Also highlights how different the two designs were. It is overshadowed by the Lancaster. In many ways similar to how the Spitfire overshadows the Hurricane. Thank you👍✈️
Thank you for a post on my favorite RAF heavy bomber. I have always thought that the Halifax Mk III never got the credit it deserved when compared to the Lancaster. Thanks again.
From what I read, the RAF found the Lancaster design more adaptable to carry one-off type specialist ordinance like the skip mines and grand slam bombs, while the Halifax's bomb bay couldn't really be rigged to accommodate these weapons. However RAF crews generally preferred the Halifax in terms of comfort and importantly ease of entry and emergency egress.
No problem, I agree. The more I read into the Halifax the more I feel it is largely overshadowed by the Lancaster. Also it ability to fulfill other roles are largely forgotten. 👍✈️
The Halifax was also said to have the ability to take greater damage than the Lancaster and still arrive home at base at the end of the operation.
@@AntiqueAirshow The RAF flew operations, the Americans flew missions.
@@sergeipohkerova7211 Unfortunately the benefits of better escape hatches and placement were outweighed by the greater percentage of Halifax's shot down during the war when both aircraft were operating on the same targets. The MkIII probably evened things up and apparently it was a very good aircraft.
Proud to say my grandfather was part of the RCAF 419 Moose Squadron as a tail gunner in their Halifax the " Midnight Cocktail". They were shot over the Netherlands, all but one of the crew survived, and my grandpa and the rest of the crew were captured and spent 3 years in the Stalag Luft VI POW camp.
That is interesting. All brave men. RIP, lest we forget.
419 Squadron operated from my local airport Middleton St George and its satellite Croft, we will remember them.
My dad flew in one as a navigator, RCAF, and was shot down in the Netherlands close to the German border in June 1944, and was the only crew to survive. He spent three months with the resistance, successfully evading German forces, to arrive in London in September 1944.
Thanks. Good to see Halifaxes getting some attention. I didn't know BOAC used these as airliners. The modular construction design was interesting.
👍✈️ Its interesting to see how the heavies of WW2 ended up in airline use post war. The modular design is quite fascinating and was also utilized on some others British aircraft of the time (i.e. the Beaufort could be produce in a similar fashion as seen in its production in Australia.)
Great video, mate. I really appreciate how you source rare images.
Thank you 👍✈️
I live beside the old RAF Mepal bomber station in Cambridgeshire. The local pub has some wonderful photographs from the war and I was always confused by the different engines seen on the Halifaxs. Now I understand a bit better.
Now I am going to have to visit the pub yet again for important research purposes. Damn my bad luck!😂🍺🍻
Nice, that seems like a great reason for a visit. It is quite interesting to see the various engines utilized. 👍✈️
I could never understand why the Lancaster persisted with the nose turret, when frontal attacks were unknown at night, and the turret was un-aerodynamic and much heavier. A big plus point for Halifax crews was that it was actually possible to escape from a crippled aircraft, unlike the Lancaster which was a flying coffin.
Why were you there ?
It is an interesting one. For the Halifax, it made a significant difference removing it. Yes the chances of survival of bailing out the Halifax were much greater. A credit to the designers.
@@trafalgarssn No, but I have read numerous books by crewmen who were, and I believe their accounts. I recommend 'Lancaster to Berlin' by Canadian Lancaster pilot Punch Cowan, who expounds on the uselessness of the front turret for night bombing. It is obvious that the Air Ministry knew this because they dispensed with the Halifax front turret, but the Lancaster remained unmodified, and this goes for the front escape hatch that was too small for a man to use while wearing a parachute too....... Illogical.
My father told me exactly what you said. F/sgt,wag, 432
RCAF eastmoor. 44-46.
Yes it's a good point a twin mount without a turret would have made more sense merely to not provide a weak spot, although the chances of being able to judge a head on night attack would not be a favourable option.
My great grandpa was bommer command and a rear gunner, during his training the rear gunner was found to have air sickness so my grandpa had to step up, he successfully flew 45 missions, only crash landed once due to his landing gears getting shot out, he managed to get a piece of his plane I know am the proud owner of a small piece of wood and metal that helped end the great war. Rip Gordon
That is very interesting and fascinating. That would be precious piece of wood and metal to have. They were brave men. Lest we forget. RIP
A great documentary well produced and written. More please!
Thank you, many more on the ways 👍✈️
My father John “Jack” Horridge, flew with the Carthy Crew as Bomb-aimer in Halifax LW440 Z5-B RAAF 462 Squadron.
My uncle was a rear gunner on one of these that suffered engine failure in 1944...he was only 23😢
They were brave young men, fighting for our freedom. Lest we forget, RIP
The Halifax B MkIII at Elvington Air Museum, York is well worth a visit. However, I believe her wings originated from a Hastings...
Nice, sounds very interesting 👍✈
Good to see a Vickers Warwick. Oh - and by the way - the lifeboat slung under the Warwick had a sealed unit Scott 2 stroke engine and fuel for 1000 miles in it. These engines are staggeringly rare now and a friend of mine who sadly passed away (cancer) a few years back had one, complete, and it ran. Not sure where it is now but possibly at the RAF Museum at Manston in Kent along with his Velocette auxiliary engine out of a Sunderland flying boat - which is also staggeringly rare, complete, and runs.
Wow those are some special and fascinating objects to have in a collection. Very interesting. I'm sorry to hear he passed.
Scott 2 stroke, as in the motorbike company?
Trying to find the answer, turns out Vincent also made engines for lifeboats.
@@paulqueripel3493 Yes Scott the motorcycle company. I didn't know about Vincent doing that too so thanks for the info.
@@vipertwenty249 according to Wikipedia, the Vincent engine was fitted to a Saunders roe lifeboat , post war. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_lifeboat
They can't have made many of the engines, they closed 2 years later.
My grandfather flew in 35 Sqd, Halifax II HR865 TL- A, shot down Aug 23rd 1943. Bailed out & was a POW until liberated by the Russians April 1945.
My Uncle was a navigator on the Halifax,whilst bombing V1 sites in Northern France a Lancaster flying above dropped its bombs, one of which went straight through the wing of his Halifax. The plane made its way all the way to back to its base in Linconshire.
That is quite is remarkable. Thanks for sharing, they were brave men, fighting for our freedom. Lest we forget.
Just querying that his base was in Lincolnshire. All Bomber Command Halfaxes were based in North Yorkshire and East and South Yorkshire.
I listened to an interview (on UA-cam) with an RAF veteran bomber command pilot (he was in his 90’s when interviewed). This man had flown the Hadley Page Halifax equipped with air cooled Bristol Hercules engines. When asked by the interviewer if he regretted not having served with Lancasters he replied, “certainly not, we loved our Halifaxes”. The old pilot then went on to explain some of the shortcomings of the Lancaster.
RAF post WW2 statistics found that only 15% of bailouts were successful from the Lancaster while a 25% success rate was achieved by the Halifax (the US B17 achieved a 50% bailout success rate). The old pilot said that bomber crews were aware of the poor chances of surviving a bailout from a Lancaster. He then told the story of a return trip from a mission where his aircraft had been hit causing one engine to falter for a minute or two. His aircraft made a successful return to base where upon the crew disembarked to find that one cylinder had been completely shot off one of the Bristol engines (but it still kept going), he noted that similar damage inflicted on a liquid cooled Merlin engine would have quickly resulted in total engine failure due to the loss of coolant.
As an aside, I don’t know how many are aware that RAF post WW2 statistics found that fully 50% of all aircrew loses during the WW2 conflict were due to accidents “unrelated to enemy action”. Pierre Closterman in his book ‘The Big Show’ when remarking on the high rate of fatal accidents in the squadrons he served in pointed to the young age of the pilots and quipped that “high octane av-gas and testosterone were a lethal mixture”. After listening to interviews with Australian WW2 veteran pilots I figure the stats were probably similar in the RAAF during the period. I have heard veterans remark that they knew the accident rate was bad but were unaware that it was that bad.
That is incredibly interesting to read. I recently attended a talk from an Australian historian exploring training casualties in the RAAF during WW2 and it was very fascinating to hear. Something that doesn't perhaps get as much attention as it should.
@@AntiqueAirshow There was a talk given at the Australian War memorial recently (last few years) by a WW2 RAAF pilot who flew Beaufort Bombers in the Pacific. Thankfully there was an ABC journalist present who was so shocked to learn of the "training casualties' that he went on to interview the old pilot and that interview was broadcast on the ABC. If you can find the interview it is well worth listening to.
To give some color to the character of the men who flew these aircraft;
My Uncle, H. R. Higgins was the tail gunner in a Halifax aircraft that took part in the daylight (unsuccessful), operation against the German battleship 'Scharnhorst' at La Rochelle on 24th July 1941. His aircraft L9501-Y received moderate flak damage during the bombing run and 10 attacks from German FW-109s. He successfully defended his aircraft with one enemy fighter confirmed shot down. His actions on that mission earned him the Distinguished Flying Medal.
A year later on June 24th, 1942, he was promoted to Flying Officer and was a member of the crew air testing a Halifax II R9482 MP-D. The aircraft took off at 1530 hrs from Middleton St.George and crashed almost immediately, due to one or both engines failing on the port side. The Halifax climbed slowly to approximately 100 feet, stalled and dived into the ground, and burst into flames. The entire crew was killed in the crash except for my uncle, who died from his injuries in Darlington Hospital 3 days later.
He was 24 years old.
Damn
😥
He will be immortalised on the International Bomber Command Centre's 'Walls of Names'. See their website and navigate to the Total Losses Database. For some reason YT won't let me post a link.
That is sad to read. Brave, young men risking it all for freedom. RIP, Lest we forget.
Thanks for sharing, it provides some great interesting insight into operations in a Halifax.
Great video keep up the good work. My Great Uncle flew Halifaxes in Coastal Command. It must have been great flying as a passenger in the post war commercial version!
Thank you, many more to come.
That is very interesting, thanks for sharing.
An uncle (RCAF) who I never knew was in a Halifax that was shot down over Norway. No survivors. They did not retrieve the wreckage until sometime in the 1960s. My father (also RCAF) flew with Coastal Command and survived the war. He never got to fly in a Halifax, though.
He never got to fly the Halifax is probably a good part of the reason he survived.
Interesting and quite fascinating. Brave men, all fighting for freedom, Lest we forget.
My uncle was a pilot on a Halifax LW466 MH-H based at 51 squ. RAF Snaith.They were shot down in January 1944,they all died and are now buried in the British cemetery near Berlin. I have a picture of him but would have loved one with the crew and the plane 😢
The Bristol Hercules engine was favoured by Handley Page rather than the Rolls Royce Merlin as the Bristol Hercules gave better performance over the Rolls Royce Merlin. However all Bristol Hercules engines at the time were intended for the Short Stirling
A great aircraft. A shame we don't have a flying example. Along with the Stirling always overshadowed by the Lanc.
It sure was. Even as a glider tower it played a super important role 👍✈️
My great uncle was a bomb aimer on this aircraft, he died on a raid on calais on September 24, 1944
They were brave men fighting for our freedom. RIP, Lest We Forget.
Such a beautiful looking aircraft.
In 1944 a Halifax crashed near where we live in North Watford. It was on a short hop flight after a period of maintenance. It's believed the dinghy assembly broke loose and wrapped around the tail. At such a low level there was no chance for the pilot to regain control and it crashed in a field close to what is now Parmiters School. The Canadian crew didn't stand a chance. Unofficial memorials and poppies have adorned the site for many years. Now a new housing development close by has had its streets named after them. Rightly so.
Thank you Canada for sending us your boys when we desperately needed help.
🇨🇦🇬🇧
That is quite a sad story. They were brave men, Lest we forget. RIP
Can't argue with the title. That is so true. I wasn't aware that like the Lancaster it stemmed from a twin engine design.
The installation of the Merlin engines on early Halifax models was a serious issue, on a Lancaster they are mounted much lower. The Hercules mounting solved that making the Halifax the equal of a Lanc.
Indeed. It is interesting as by what I've read the Lancaster suffered with the Hercules engine.
The installation of the Merlin was the problem, HP ignored the advice of RR and used their own nacelles instead of the RR power egg. The nacelles were too short and set higher on the wing causing a disruption to the amount of lift and also induced vibration to the reduction gear causing frequent failures. Problems with the Hercules supercharger timing was the issue with the mark II Lancasters poorer performance and this was resolved with later mark III and VI Halifaxes.
During the rarely mentioned LAST HEAVY BOMBER RAID OF WW2 ,ON GERMANY (KIEL) MY BROTHER WAS KILLED IN A mK 3 HALIFAX, WHEN HIS BOMBER WAS HIT BY ANOTHER HALIFAX, CAUSING THE DEATHS OF 13 CREW IN TOTAL. IT IS BELEIVED THAT A jU 88 NIGHT FIGHTER, HAD DAMAGED THE FLYING CONTROLS OF ONE PLANE.
Very sad, they were brave men, fighting for freedom. RIP, Lest We Forget
WHY ARE YOU YELLING. Not necessary.
Thanks for this. My dad flew the MkIIIb from 1942 to '46.
This is the first time I learnt all this information, thank you. The first time I heard about this aircraft was playing Warthunder on steam. It sounds like ot was the most numerous bomber for the brits in WW2. It shows how much I know about WW2 airforce lol.
👍✈️. It wasn't the most numerous, that being the Lancaster, but it was definitely built in very significant numbers.
14:12 There were other squadrons that performed SOE missions e.g. 298 and 644 based at Tarrant Rushton. The Canadian restoration Halifax was from 644 and was lost on an SOE mission. Enjoyed the video 👍
Yes very true, all conducting important work. That is interesting, I didn't know that. Nice to hear 👍✈️
A late friend flew 20 SOE ops with 138 Squadron.
Further info. This friend prior to the SOE ops flew in the Stirling and Lancaster doing 19 0ps with Bomber Command.
@@anthonyeaton5153 In Halifaxes? They were tough missions too 👍
I had a long lost uncle named Ted who was a tail gunner in one of those in No 10 Squadron but he was missing in action during a raid on Essen.
Good stuff thx for making it.
👍✈
The B MkIII Halifax at Elvington Air Museum, York, is well worth a visit - though I believe the wings belong to a Hastings.
Great, I'll have to check it out some day. There ain't too many Halifax's left in the world.
My uncle flew them and Lancasters. He hated the wing spar in the Lanc as it made bailing out a real challenge in the dark. He was shot down in a Halifax. The crew got out ok and we’re eventually over the course of a couple of weeks sent back to England.
That is very interesting. They were brave men, Lest we forget
my friends dad was a sqdn commander in 462 and 466 sqdrns RAAF. 2 tours. 1 as pathfinders. dfc and bar. he loved the halifax. reckoned once it got the engine it was designed for it was great.
That is quite the service record, very fascinating. Also very interesting to see his thoughts on the Halifax. Thanks for sharing 👍✈️
Based at Driffield, Lincs. Oddbods for ever!
The RCAF 6 Group fielded 15 squadrons, many of them equipped with Halifax Mk. III. Many of the Canadian squadron Halifaxes came equipped with the Preston Green mid-under gun position. A single trainable.50 cal. machine gun to counter night fighters attacking from underneath. They were removed when H2S radars began to be installed.
Yes based in the North Riding of Yorkshire my patch. One station Leeming is still an RAF flying base.
The only complete Handley Page Halifax in North America is at the National Air Force Museum in Trenton, Ontario, Canada. It's something to see!
I imagine it would be. Would love to see it one day. There is only one or two others left around the world too.
My granddad was the navigator for a Halifax for the RAAF however he passed away before I could ask him about his time during the war all that I know was that he turned 21 over Berlin and that his plane was involved in the bombing of Dresden which he never recovered from :(
That is sad . They were brave young men, facing unimaginable horrors. RIP, Lest we forget
@@AntiqueAirshow thank you
He seriously turned 21 while on a raid?? That is incredible, what a great (short) story, and thank you for sharing. I'm sorry on how he felt about Dresden, that must have been a terrible burden to carry his entire life for doing his duty. I would, I'd like to think, feel the same, but thanks to him I never had to. Hero.
Rudder overbalance, not correctable by increased power, had plagued the Halifax from the beginning until in 1944, the BMkII Series II carried the larger D type fins. During the investigations into this and further trim tab issues, so many good lives were sacrificed.
You're doing some good work there, kiddo. Keep it up please, I just subscribed to your channel. Nice work. I've watched a couple of your presentations while on a quest to learn more about British technologies, and you've been very helpful. I'll have to look up the Warwick, to find out the relationship twixt it and the Wellington, unless someone else would care to comment.
Thank you, good to hear. I don't know a heap about the Warwick, but believe that it shares very similar design elements to the Wellington. I might cover this aircraft soon.
Thanks, this was really interesting.
👍✈️
My Great Grandad flew with Canadians as a flight engineer in 158 Squadron. I think he was one of the few Britons in the squadron. I believe he was also sent to Burma, not sure if it was before or after VJ day.
That is a very interesting service record. Thanks for sharing 👍✈️
Based at lissett east Yorkshire
I love the British heavies ,
@@keithcrispin1368 I used to make a point of stopping off at Lissett on my travels and pay my respects. A sad and lonely place
When the war started the Empire Training programme was initiated to provide the RAF's aircrew. At the time the bomber crew complement included 2 pilots. When the policy was changed to a single pilot and a flight engineer, the overseas training system wasn't modified and it was left to the UK to provide the majority of flight engineers, even to the Commonwealth sqns. That's why many Commonwealth crews frequently had a Brit on board as the flight engineer.
Thank you great content.
Thank you 👍✈️
Some notes on pronunciation: Centaurus - centaur - us (not centaur - ius) Hertfordshire - Heart-ford-shire. Ailerons - ay-ler-ons. (not aerolons) Le Havre - Le Harv-ra
Thanks for the pick up and feedback. I try my best to get it right, but sometimes just can't, especially names of places. I'll keep working on it 👍✈️
@@AntiqueAirshow I'm old, so I've had more time. Keep making good videos!
Thanks 👍✈️
Thanks for this 👍✈️🇳🇿
👍✈️
Flt/Lt Bishop Halifax pilot of 51 Squadron Snaith named his aircraft ‘Bishop’s Basher’
George Volkert also creatted an unarmed high-speed design to fulfill Specification P13/33, long before de Havilland took up the idea for their Mosquito.
Yet often forgot is that the Halifax 111 B V1 had a max speed of over 300mph
Loved this programme, but gutted 624 Squadron special duties… My Father flew them as flight engineer out of Blida.
Somewhere I have a photo of a twin engined(radial, probably Hercules) Halifax. It's in a magazine and no one seemed to know its origin. Any ideas?.
That is very interesting and fascinating. Would love to see a copy of it. the Halifax did evolve from a twin engine design dubbed the H.P.56 and while prototypes were ordered by what I can gauge it was never finished and it never flew. So possibly it could be that, otherwise I'm unsure👍✈️
Did you ever find the photo again because a twin radial engine Halifax is something I’ve never read about?
The whole question of whether the Lancaster was superior to the Halifax, and whether Halifax production should have been switched over to production of the Lancaster, misses the point. The RAF needed as many bombers as it could get and it would have made no sense to disrupt a complex production program in the middle of a war. Besides, the Halifax was perfectly adequate for the job, especially after finally adapted to take the Bristol Hercules engines, which it should have had all along.
That is very true, and I agree. The Halifax with its modular design and assembly was also easier to produce than the Lancaster. Indeed it was, and even when bomber command didn't want them, the Halifax was able to take up important roles with other commands, such as a glider tug with the Airborne Forces.
@@AntiqueAirshow Thank you for the video! The use of former frontline bombers in other roles was a service norm as exemplified by the subsequent use of both the Whitley and the Wellington. Both were used by Coastal Command and Training Command. The Whitley (particularly in its Mk V form) was also used in the paratrooper role and as a glider tug. Some were used by BOAC as freighters, albeit comparatively briefly.
@@chrisweeks6973 👍. The Stirling also saw a similar fate, ass did fighter/bombers such as Bristol Beaufighter and the Defiant
@@AntiqueAirshow that modular design also made the fuselage heavier than a single piece fuselage.
Good to see you back with another video!
Thank you 👍✈️
While the Shackleton was an Avro product, it now makes sense how it looks so much more like a Halifax than a Lancaster/Lincoln.
I’ve read that the RCAF switched from Halifax’s to Lancaster’s then back to Halifax’s but I don’t know why. Do you know anything about that?
As far as I am aware they would of swapped to Lancaster's and then presumably stayed on them. However, if a squadron was taken off bombing duties to another role then its is possible that they could of returned to Halifax's. I'm unfortunately unable to answer your question sorry.
No 6 (RCAF) Gp started with the (awful!) Halifax IIs and Vs and were converted to Lancaster Mk IIs (Hercules radials) as these became available. However, as the Lancaster Mk II's production run was limited (301 - as the shortage of Merlin production never materialised), but Lancaster I/III production couldn't meet the demand for 1 for 1 re-equipment, 6 Gp, was converted back to the Halifax, but this time to the more effective Mk IIIs and VIs which at least shared the same (basic) Hercules radial; apparently the wails of despair could be heard back over the North Atlantic though! Later still, as Canadian production of Lancaster Mk Xs came on stream, the Halifax was slowly being replaced by that mark of Lancaster by war's end.
(The Halifax's Achilles Heel was always it's range - when you consider the Hercules engine at 39 ltr vs the 27 ltr Merlin the reason becomes obvious.)
My dad's 1st cousin who flew with the RCAF during WWII was based at Elvington, Yorkshire with 77 Squadron. He flew in Halifax II bombers as a sergeant air gunner, but sadly the whole crew was lost over Berlin on 29th Jan 1944 when HR841 crashed into a house, after a collision with a night fighter.
Hats off to all the brave crews of these planes.
That is sad. All brave men, fighting for freedom. One can only imagine the hell those crews would of had to face. Lest we forget, RIP.
@@AntiqueAirshow thank you for your kind words.
My Father was a pilot. He completed 2 tours flying Wellington's, Stirling's and Halifax's . The Halifax was his favorite. The " Devastating Dog " QO-D was his baby
There were some saying that rolls roys lobbying the British government to pick their engine over other companies engine
I haven't heard that, but it wouldn't be surprising. Quite often companies would lobby government to get chosen. A modern example of that would be the F-35.
The Halifax was much better than the Lancaster in North Africa, but it was the air ministry's insistance of a 100ft wingspan that hobbled it until the Mk3. Short was not allowed to do the same change to the sterling
One of the most interesting facts about the Halifax was that Sir Handley-Page himself hated the Merlin engine when everybody else seemed to want it dearly. He wanted the Bristol Hercules sleeve-valve engines, already fitted on the Short Stirling, but for all early Halifaxes was forced to take the Merlin instead.
In principle he was right, since early Hercules engines offered more power than early Merlins and, typical of air-cooled radials, could sustain more battle damage than liquid-cooled V12s.
Early Halifaxes suffered from fatal crashes due to handling vices. Aerodynamically revised later Halifaxes all had the much-desired Hercules and were quite successful. In contrast, Lancasters fitted with the Herc radials were not considered a success.
Compared to the Lancaster, the Halifax had two drawbacks: a lower ceiling, making it more vulnerable to enemy Flak. Development of high altitude fighter engine supercharger design had been of great benefit to the Rolls-Royce Merlins. Second, it didn't have the unobstructed extra large bomb bay like the Lancaster. Therefore it could not drop large single bombs like the Tallboy which sank the German battleship Tirpitz
I think our lad now knows how to pronounce 'Haich.' The corrections can maybe cease, yes?
'Aitch' only people need to travel a bit more.
Yet what is overlooked is that the Halifax III B V1 had a top speed of over 300 mph
Also a great video of it called 'Halifax at War '
Excellent! TFP
Thank you👍✈️
MP-L / L9530 (Halifax Mk1) Was the plane my grandfather flew as navigator, (G J Smalley) on it's last mission, August 1941. (C Cheshire was the pilot).
They were caught in searchlights while returning from a mission to Berlin, a flak shell exploded under the tail, killing the rear gunner and another crewmember (Niven & Woods). The aircraft was severely damaged and on fire. The rest of the crew were able to bail out safely and were captured, all of them survived the 'Stalag Luft' POW camps and returned home after the war.
So proud to see the photos still being used today to educate! Great video!
That is really fascinating and interesting to read. I appreciate being able to read the stories of the men that flew these aircraft on such dangerous missions, risking it all for freedom. I've used quite a few photos of MP-L throughout the video, so it is special to be able to connect the plane to the crew. Thanks for sharing 👍✈️
@@AntiqueAirshow You're very welcome.👍
It's so important we remember the sacrifices our ancestors made for us to have the life we do today.
It's not certain, in the IWM pic of MP-L undergoing maintenance, my Grandfather is the very tall one in the foreground, despite his surname, Smalley, he was 6'4" known as "Slim"!
Chris Cheshire (the pilot) is the most famous of the crew, his brother (Leonard) and father (Geoffrey) were quite famous due to their charitable work. Wikipedia has a lot of info on them.
Interestingly they unofficially nicknamed the aircraft "L for leather" despite Cheshire's cheese and cat crest as their emblem painted on the cockpit. That name was a common phrase during the war and later became a famous name for a bomber in the 'Dam Busters' raids.
@@jimsmindonline I very much agree.
I have really appreciated reading about MP-L and its crew. I find it very interesting. It is always special to learn about the crews that flew them. In many ways it gives new meaning to the photos of this particular aircraft. Thanks 👍✈
Always thought they should have switched from 303 turret guns to 50 cal or even 20mm
would of helped to increase firepower. The later marks did included .5 cal in the rear turret
Harris tried from the day he took office to have the defensive firepower of his heavies increased but the Air Ministry dragged their feet on the subject, much to his severe annoyance. In the end he went to Rose Bros of Gainsborough directly and got them to develop and produce the 2 x 50" Rose-Rice turret for the tail of the Lancasters, initially of 1 Gp in Lincolnshire.
Nice video. No one would deny the superlative qualitites of the Lancaster but the Halifax was arguably a more versatile type, and the Mk3 could give the Lanc a run for its money as a straight bomb truck. I believe there was a proposed 'super Halifax' that never left the drawing board.
Thanks 👍✈️ I think that sums up the situation very well, and I entirely agree. Yes I believe so too. I did see it pop up a few times during researching this video, but not sure too much on the details.
I was from Hull East Yorkshire, Halifax Country. From Hull, Hell and Halifax as the poem goes.
ASC The North Riding of Yorkshire was also Halifax country with 6 RCAF Halifax stations of 6 Group.
@@anthonyeaton5153 Yes, true.
Yorkshire was home to No.4 Group which were at a time were all equipped with the Halifax's. Yorkshire was Halfiax country.
It's more a litany than a poem: From Hell, Hull and Halifax may the good Lord deliver us. There are 2 reasons for fearing Hull that I've come across - Hull gaol and getting into the River Hull. The reason to fear Halifax comes down to the early guillotine they had there, which was used to execute those who had stolen property of a value of only 13 pennies.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Ahh that is interesting. I had come across the line when researching this video. I didn't know the true meaning behind it, but now I do. Thanks 👍✈
Single tail-wheel whereas the Stirling had two. I've never seen comments on any aircraft tail-wheels . . .
Thanks Tomato!
👍✈️
The Halifax was easier to bail out from than the Lancaster and so had a higher crew survival rate if they got shot down. The escape hatch on the Lancaster was never fixed.
12:00 "the Lancaster was only utilised as a bomber" you made a mistake..it was also used as a Pathfinder
A major improvement to night-time bombing came with the implementation of the Pathfinder Force (PFF) in August 1942, multiple squadrons were transferred from Bomber Command groups to constitute the new unit. These pathfinders were tasked with flying ahead of bomber formations to locate and mark targets using Target Indicator flares to improve the accuracy of strikes by the following aircraft
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Lancaster?wprov=sfla1
Great video, totally enjoyed it. It was nice to hear about the various marks and variants and differences between them. I didn't know about the issue with the vertical fins, thank you.
I have always found something very appealing with WW2 aircraft... but I grew up watching airshows at the airfields named below so I might be biased.
A neighbour and family friend worked on building wellington fuselages during the war (beautiful airframe).
My Dad served (National Service) in the RAF as a mechanic during the Berlin Airlift and I wonder if he ever worked on the Halifax, I know he worked on Spitfires and saw some pretty horrible things but he never spoke much about it to me and now it is too late for me to find out more.
Also I grew up close to Elstree and Leavesden airfields, back in the day the runway at Elstree was long enough to allow the Halifax to land and I believe some used to land there, but that was way before my time.
Thank you 👍✈️ Good to hear you learnt something new about the Halifax. As it had such a distinguished service, there was much I learnt about the Halifax in making this video. I'm the same, WW2 aircraft have always just drawn me in. I think for me, it might have something to do with the fact I have repeatedly watched the Battle of Britain movie since a boy.
That's interesting; many servicemen didn't want to talk about their experiences.
The airfields around the U.K have some fascinating histories behind them. I look forward to visiting one day and travelling to some of them, learning about their histories. 👍
You said "while the Lancaster was only utilised as a bomber" and compared this to the Halifax. This isn't true. The Lancaster was also used in a variety of roles including photo reconnaissance and maritime patrol
Pathfinder Squadrons
No. 8 Mk 1 Spotfire Bomb
Squadrons and stations
Between 1942 and 1945
No. 7 Squadron RAF - Stirling, then Lancaster
No. 35 Squadron RAF - Halifax, then Lancaster
No. 83 Squadron RAF - Lancaster
No. 97 Squadron RAF - Lancaster
😮😮😮😮😮
All books and videos about British aircraft start with a ministry specification. So, how does the specification arise and what was the motivation for a specification. This would make an interesting history. To be clear, the ministry specification seems like manna from heaven but it isn’t and that would be worth understanding
That is very true. So many of my own videos start off in such a way. "In response to Air Ministry specification .....". Most are derived to either try and improve the arsenal of the RAF or fulfill a gap in the current inventory.
Are some written after the design, such as the Lancaster, or was the Lanc built to a preexisting spec after the Manchester?
@@ronjon7942 Yes some are, and the Manchester is a good example. The Beaufighter is another example. However it would seem that the majority were built to satisfy a certain specification.
The Merlin Halifax were never really up to it. The design of the engine nacelle and similar just wasn't right. The Hercules radial version was a big improvement and while never able to perform as well as the Lanc, the Mark III was a pretty good plane.
Yes it certainly seems like it 👍✈️
My taid was a rear gunner, he was then prisoner of war, he then survived the war, he then married and had children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, great-grandchildren great grandchildren
The claim that the Halifax was the backbone of Bomber Command is somewhat ambitious, as it implies that it was produced in greater numbers and perhaps could lift a greater tonnage than other aircraft that the Command operated. Given that there were 6,172 Halifax produced - or perhaps 6,178; accounts differ slightly - as against 7,377 Lancaster and that the Halifax in its ultimate Mk III form could lift a 13,000 lbs bomb-load, as against up to 22,000 lbs by specially modified Lancasters, the claim cannot be substantiated.
Critically, however, the Halifax could not fit the 4,000 lb 'Cookie' high-capacity bomb into its bomb-bay; it had to fly with the doors partially open, which increased drag and reduced both speed and altitude when compared to the Lancaster. The Halifax flew 82,773 sorties with Bomber Command and dropped 224,207 long tons of bombs, an average of 2.71 tons (6,070 lbs)/sortie. The Lancaster, on the other hand, flew some 156,000 sorties and dropped 608,612 tons of bombs, an average of 3.9 long tons (8,736 lbs)/sortie. Both aircraft were invaluable to Bomber Command.
Thanks for the stat's. I was curious about this also and was tempted look it up before I saw your comment. Perhaps "part of the backone of Bomber Command" would be more apt?
@@Steve-GM0HUU No worries and yes, it would. They were all invaluable, though.
Yes I realize it is quite ambitious to claim the Halifax was the backbone of Bomber Command. However, the Halifax did enter service over a year before the Lancaster, and it wouldn't be until early 1943 that the Lancaster would start outnumbering the Halifax in Bomber Command.
Overall, as the stats illustrate, it is a hard title to claim. I think a more accurate conclusion would be that the Halifax form part of the backbone of Bomber Command.
(But it wouldn't be as good a title )
@Chris Weeks thank you for posting the stats above, they are very detailed a provide a great point of comparison between the Lancaster and the Halifax. very informative and a good source of reference for anyone looking through the comments for comparison of the two types. 👍✈️
Hey bro
Love your work but some of your pronunciations are a bit off.
Recommend you check with a few aircraft nerds prior to publishing 🤙🏼
Thanks. I try my best but often get one or two wrong. I do google a few things beforehand if I am unsure, but sometimes struggle to get it just right. 👍✈️
I had no problem understanding the narrator's pronunciation.
Thanks👍✈️
Some airmen preferred the Halifax
They did, and quite a few, even after flying the Lancaster, was adamant that the Halifax was the better aircraft.
@@AntiqueAirshow not to mention that the Halifax mk 111 V1 was the only allied bomber with a top speed of over 300mph
In Len Deighton's 1972 classic novel "Bomber," the author points out that the Halifaxes and Lancasters streaming it at mid-altitudes were at a mid-level threat of being shot down by flak, whereas the Stirlings attracted the worst of the AA since they couldn't go very high, while the Wellingtons were most survivable as they could reach the highest altitude. Also for whatever reason, more personnel survived bailing out of Halifaxes than from Lancasters, I don't know what that's about.
I once read they should have took off the dorsal turret of the lancaster as it would have put them above 88s range.
Yes very true, and the Halifax were somewhat more vulnerable than the Lancaster as it couldn't quite reach the same altitude. Yes it seems so. By what I can gather the escape hatches were bigger and wider on the Halifax making it easier to escape. Also they were positioned better and it was easier to move around a Halifax than a Lancaster making it easier for crews to get to the hatches.
I remember that book , good read
There's a very detailed description of the shrage Musik's bullets ripping from nose to tail of a bomber in that book. If it's what I'm thinking of the chapters alternate between British and German sides, mind it's probably 30 odd years since I read those books, Fighter, Bomber, Good Bye Mickey Mouse etc. Also three books by a JU 88 pilot from Europe, North Africa and finally KG200.
The fact that the Stirling could not fly as high as the other bombers was not the fault of Shorts, but the Air Ministry, which stipulated that the bomber's wingspan must not exceed 100 feet in order for it to fit into existing RAF hangars. That forced Shorts to make the wings smaller than they needed to be, affecting the aircraft's performance. By the same token, the fact that the Strolling could not carry oversized bombs was also due to the Air Ministry. The original requirement for the Halifax and Manchester included the ability to carry a pair of torpedoes, which stipulated a very large bomb bay. The Stirling was built to satisfy a different specification which did not include the ability to carry torpedoes, and was not required to carry bombs larger than 2,000 pounds.
MZ856 of 640 sqaudron based at Leconfield Yorkshire C8 S lost over Germany 14/15 Feb 1945 .All the crew were killed including my late Fathers cousin.I have been over to Durnbach war cemetery and placed a cross of poppies on the graves . Lest we forget.Shot down by Major Werner Hoffman flying a junkers 88.It was their first and last mission.
Very sad, brave men they were. RIP, Lest we forget.
The Mk III Halifax was such a significantly different aircraft to the Earlier marks - re-designed aerodynamically, different armament, different engines - they should have given it a different name. Now, whenever the Halifax is compared with any other aircraft, it always comes out badly as the earlier version pull any stats down - whereas the Mk. III was a fine aircraft.
It was, and indeed it makes it hard to compare, particularly to the Lancaster even though the Mk.III was very comparable. When researching this video, at least one author noted this.
Escape hatches were larger in the Halifax. There were higher numbers of successful bail outs than Lancasters.
Yes they were. Escaping a Halifax in general was better than the Lancaster.
The stats were: Halifax = circa 25% Lancaster = circa 11%
It's a shame there aren't any airwothy Halifax bombers. Sigh.
It is, but at least there is one or two still on display. Compared to the Short Stirling which there are no complete examples, its perhaps lucky that we have the handful of Halifax's we do have
Subscribed. But i suggest "Tomato Einz" !
Thank you. That would be cool, but I like Tomato Eins and its a little late to change 👍✈️
@@AntiqueAirshow Of course i ws kidding! Keep sending them up!
👍✈️
The weirdest thing happened when I recieved my package from Amazon...I opened the box which was the halifax MK 3 model by Revel and when I opened the plastic packages which housed the parts in the spru I noticed that someone had tried to scribe the panel line down one siede of the fuselodge. You could see where his scribe tool slipped off and scrathched the model ....it was not a mould defect either...so obviously this was not a new model...I WAS VERY ANNOYED!
Oh no that's very annoying and frustrating. Hopefully you were able to sort it out with them 👍✈️
I filled the scratch with tamaya putty and sanded it out...but this was suppposed to be a new model and it wasnt but amazon somehow resealed everything . I am currently still building it in my spare time which aint much these days...@@AntiqueAirshow
Good review of the Halifax, which has become over shadowed by the Lancaster. I found the narrator to be difficult to understand.
Thanks. Yeah I realize it can be hard to understand me sometimes, but I'm working on my narration and trying to improve it as best I can 👍✈️
@@AntiqueAirshow youre fine mate.
Only americans dont understand.
It was a massive failure, an aerodynamic nightmare that killed many brave crews . The Mk3 was okay, but appeared too late. Even putting all the crew in one location, bar two gunners, was an idiotic idea.
Read based at Burn ,578 sqn
Halibag?😳
Jman
The word aircraft has the letter T at the end.
Spoiled by your illiteracy. Aileron - if you are going to speak about aircraft, learn to pronounce this common word. It is 'AY-LER-RON'.
Pronounced "le haarvra" . . .
Without aspirating the H.