In this video I'm trying to organise some ideas about the future of Dark and Darker and generate a discussion about a Self Found System in normal game!
The thumbnails red red bar at the bottom made me skip over this video believing I've already seen it even though I hadn't. just commenting my thoughts on it.
I think a permanent profile level would be dope.. making it so you are leveling your account so people can see just how much others play.. obviously no items kept and ranks reset along with characters but your actual profile itself has a level that's permanent..
Self found system is stupid. For free to play players mostly. With this system free to play players cannot make ANY builds, simply because they cannot buy the items they need, so, they cannot try different builds. Also, free to play players will have no way to spend their money. At all. Basic merchants doesn't sell anything good, and the only thing you can spend lots of your money is stash size increasing. So this makes a huge paywall between f2p and p2p players.
With the market loot has almost no value, there's no dopamine hit from finding a blue item in normals, because you farm gold, buy items and go in full build. The point of a SFS would be to recreate that "playtest era" feeling. Where most colored items you found were important somehow. Not only that but imo, having to craft your build through raiding is very rewarding, it gives a "roguelike" element to the game.
Self found is the way i wish this game went after the playtest 5, thats how i andprobably a lot of other people played back then because the trade chat wasnt very convinient
i don't like a lot of these suggestions tbh. - i think the time to kill rn is already a little too high. especially when i see a cleric with 200hp and 80% pdr. - self found system seems weird imo and you didnt explain what will happen to "cursed items" - Weekly item evolution will do so the grind early game dont matter at all. - Improving the test server to prevent obvious bad changes would be 100% good. - making high roller have the zone back would do so 50% of the players who play highroller wont bad change. - They already said they are removing the inspect by removing the pregame lobby entirely. Imo they should change the highroller lobbies so they arent ass annoying but still are more challengíng. Less trash mobs more minibosses. Something like that. Gear requirement like have 200+ gs to enter would take many of the rats instantly away from highroller. arena gamemode seems like a fun change which, if implemented right, could be hella fun. (ranked rewards etc.) some kind of permanent progression (not anything insane) would also be fun. They could even make it hella grindy so it takes some wipes to get minor things. cap pdr at 60%. It makes no sense to me how you can ever be 1000+ effective hp.
I disagree with the TTK being high rn, that Cleric kills you with 2? Maybe 3 hits? He's a tank, of course it should take a while to kill him, but he shouldn't be able to 2 tap a fighter with 130 health. SFS would bring a "roguelike" vibe to the game, and also make the Normal Game loot feel a little more important. "Cursed" items, would just be traded items, I've said that in the video, you would only be able to use them in HR. Weekly Item evolution would stop at Epic Items, making you hoard more items and grind more for new stash tabs. And it turn Rare (normal items) into Epic (cursed) items, forcing Normal Game players to either sell it, or buy the game to use it. (I want this presentation to be financially viable for IM) Blending the Zone systems could be nice IMO, forcing rats to play normals or be EXTRA sneacky to survive HR. I hate the idea of losing the taverm, specially now with the lobbies VOIP back...
@@fenixignis i feel like clerics 2 shotting you isnt an acurate picture of the game balance. clerics slow you so you basically are garanteed to hit 2x with cleric. no running away. While fighting other classes you can almost always run away if you play it right. Fights can sometime take very long. Imo they should remove the 125+ gearscore braket from normals, but only after they have found a way to make highroller fun for a big portion of players. Because as of now if they make it so epic+ gear is only in HR then majority of players will just never use epic gear. Rare becomes bis and people just play normals anyway. "I hate the idea of losing the taverm, specially now with the lobbies VOIP back..." I feel that somewhat. Hopefully they change the gathering hall into the now "tavern" So you go in there. there is voip and you can find people to play with. You can also test weapons and practise certain mechanics. Would be a big positive imo.
A I agree with most of your comment but you act like fighters shouldn't stack pdr. You realize they are extremely weak to magic based DMG? Also you can stack true phys and armor pen and use a flanged mace or a war hammer or any armor pen based weapon + stack the correct stats. The fighter complaint just sounds like you don't gear correctly to fight them or you don't run away from them which is too easy to do as any other class except barb.
I understand the arguments agains lower TTK, but I still miss the old days of DaD where tanks made sense and people had shitty gear. Nowadays a Tank can run at 320 movespeed, have 170 HP and kill you with 2 hits. That's why imo they should do minor nerfs to base stats and implement SFS. Most players would have bad builds, the colored item drops in normals would give you that dopamine hit, and fights would be more meaningful, because killing someone using your class could give you more Items that fit your build. Players would hoard even more, and spent their coin with stash tabs, and the merchants would be that gamba that you try everyday to get a BIS blue item...
@@probong2053 im not talking about fighter, im talking about cleric. cleric can easily be 45% pdr with 315+ movespeed and a dumb amount of healing :D. just saying that fight can take long. we were talking about time to kill if you run away from them the time a fight takes is even longer so proves my point even further
What is the point of solo self found if you basically only limit it to normal mode? Just have a checkable "solo self found" tag that you can tick or untick during character creation, and character with that tag do not have access to the marketboard or the trading post and can only be queued with other characters that also have this tag. It really doesn't need to be this complicated lmao. you could even limit this queue to high roller only, because there is no point really to having normal games only solo self found anyways and we have enough different queues as is
It doesn't have to be solo btw. Limiting it to normal mode IS because of different queues. I don't want to create a new queue, I want to replace the current one. The real meaning of a Self-Found normal game, would be to recreate the feeling that we had back on the Playtest Era. Where most people had no good items and the TTK was insanely high. Back then, most people were running a form of "Self-Found" only trading items with friends, and doing that in the dungeon, because getting lvl 15 was a bit hard.
@@fenixignis The problem is that the moment you do that you make the barrier of entry for people to cheese the system incredibly low already. You could already queue snipe in solos but in trios the population is low enough that you could very easily just snipe one person, drop all your gear for them and voila, the entirity of the concept is thrown into the bin. Also the majority of people who want solo self found want it for hr mostly, normals is simply not difficult enough for this to matter because your gear already barely matters in low gearscore lobbies
@@smszx We can't define new changes based on the worst players, normal game already has a lot of cheaters. If that was the case, Ironmace would not have turned normals F2P. The "normal game only" aspect, is to keep F2P players engaged with the game for a longer time, it would add a "roguelike" vibe to it, which is very addicting... Any other way of implementing SFS would create another queue, something that no sane player wants for DaD.
@@fenixignis but you're already adding a separate queue? and i'll be honest with you, the echoing sentiment in the community is just not at all people who want normals only ssf. either both normals and hr or hr only. Normals only just makes zero sense
@@smszx I'm not, I would replace the normals queue. With the market loot has almost no value, there's no dopamine hit from finding a blue item in normals, because you farm gold, buy items and go in full build. The point of a SFS would be to recreate that "playtest era" feeling. Where most colored items you found were important somehow. Most players would have bad builds, the colored item drops in normals would give you that dopamine hit, and fights would be more meaningful, because killing someone using your class could give you more Items that fit your build. Players would hoard even more, and spent their coin with stash tabs, and the merchants would be that gamba that you try everyday to get a BIS blue item...
I think it would be dope if they made it so legendaries are possible out of every box in normal as well.. high roller keeps its higher teir stuff obviously but would be awesome if just any chest has a drop chance for good shit.. even if rare.. i have opened enough chests in normal to know your not getting over a blue EVER.. unless its a gold or lion head
i’m a advocate for the higher ttk side, i hate the fact that people can run away and fully heal and come back, i hate the fact that people can listen to a long fight and then just come in and clean up after its done. IMO they should remove things that allow people to be ambushed, i like the idea of a fair and quick 1v1 where everything could be over in a second if you play it right. but this is coming from a solo player. so my opinions are biased
I think normal gear needs to stay how it is.. not everyone can grind 12 hours daily or on weekends.. nothing worse then finally getting some gear and getting slapped by people who come in with uniques and legendary armor in normals and just wipe the lobby..
I disagree they don't need to make fights last longer, some npc's already last too long imagine need several more hits and just having to dodge the mechanics more.
I love pvp but to grind bosses or tasks I think a pve only would be dope.. my buddy ain't very good at the game and wants to complete tasks.. he always dies lmfaooo also please do not add zone back that shit was ass... I also think your idea for p2p is kinda off.. the only way the game will grow is if it's open to everyone.. I think they need expand the f2p option and keep it one character option but don't have a pay wall for anything.. lock cosmetics to people that buy the game and keep high roller on p2p.. but f2p shouldn't have a cap
In this video I'm trying to organise some ideas about the future of Dark and Darker and generate a discussion about a Self Found System in normal game!
The thumbnails red red bar at the bottom made me skip over this video believing I've already seen it even though I hadn't. just commenting my thoughts on it.
Thank you for warning me!
Nah. No zone. Played since playtest 1. This isnt a battle royale and i like it that way.
Fair enough, but imo blending the zone systems in HR would be very cool.
@@fenixignis the zone was cheeks.. you could have a whole team alive last in the dungeon and not enough exits.. shit was lame..
I think a permanent profile level would be dope.. making it so you are leveling your account so people can see just how much others play.. obviously no items kept and ranks reset along with characters but your actual profile itself has a level that's permanent..
They do say that in all creative work your first ideas will be shit.
The hardcore event idea is cool af, they should make better events like that, than just looting candy in the dungeon...
Self found system is stupid. For free to play players mostly. With this system free to play players cannot make ANY builds, simply because they cannot buy the items they need, so, they cannot try different builds. Also, free to play players will have no way to spend their money. At all. Basic merchants doesn't sell anything good, and the only thing you can spend lots of your money is stash size increasing. So this makes a huge paywall between f2p and p2p players.
With the market loot has almost no value, there's no dopamine hit from finding a blue item in normals, because you farm gold, buy items and go in full build. The point of a SFS would be to recreate that "playtest era" feeling. Where most colored items you found were important somehow.
Not only that but imo, having to craft your build through raiding is very rewarding, it gives a "roguelike" element to the game.
All in all great video brother
Self found is the way i wish this game went after the playtest 5, thats how i andprobably a lot of other people played back then because the trade chat wasnt very convinient
i don't like a lot of these suggestions tbh.
- i think the time to kill rn is already a little too high. especially when i see a cleric with 200hp and 80% pdr.
- self found system seems weird imo and you didnt explain what will happen to "cursed items"
- Weekly item evolution will do so the grind early game dont matter at all.
- Improving the test server to prevent obvious bad changes would be 100% good.
- making high roller have the zone back would do so 50% of the players who play highroller wont bad change.
- They already said they are removing the inspect by removing the pregame lobby entirely.
Imo they should change the highroller lobbies so they arent ass annoying but still are more challengíng. Less trash mobs more minibosses. Something like that. Gear requirement like have 200+ gs to enter would take many of the rats instantly away from highroller.
arena gamemode seems like a fun change which, if implemented right, could be hella fun. (ranked rewards etc.)
some kind of permanent progression (not anything insane) would also be fun. They could even make it hella grindy so it takes some wipes to get minor things.
cap pdr at 60%. It makes no sense to me how you can ever be 1000+ effective hp.
I disagree with the TTK being high rn, that Cleric kills you with 2? Maybe 3 hits? He's a tank, of course it should take a while to kill him, but he shouldn't be able to 2 tap a fighter with 130 health.
SFS would bring a "roguelike" vibe to the game, and also make the Normal Game loot feel a little more important. "Cursed" items, would just be traded items, I've said that in the video, you would only be able to use them in HR.
Weekly Item evolution would stop at Epic Items, making you hoard more items and grind more for new stash tabs. And it turn Rare (normal items) into Epic (cursed) items, forcing Normal Game players to either sell it, or buy the game to use it. (I want this presentation to be financially viable for IM)
Blending the Zone systems could be nice IMO, forcing rats to play normals or be EXTRA sneacky to survive HR.
I hate the idea of losing the taverm, specially now with the lobbies VOIP back...
@@fenixignis i feel like clerics 2 shotting you isnt an acurate picture of the game balance. clerics slow you so you basically are garanteed to hit 2x with cleric. no running away. While fighting other classes you can almost always run away if you play it right. Fights can sometime take very long.
Imo they should remove the 125+ gearscore braket from normals, but only after they have found a way to make highroller fun for a big portion of players. Because as of now if they make it so epic+ gear is only in HR then majority of players will just never use epic gear. Rare becomes bis and people just play normals anyway.
"I hate the idea of losing the taverm, specially now with the lobbies VOIP back..."
I feel that somewhat. Hopefully they change the gathering hall into the now "tavern" So you go in there. there is voip and you can find people to play with. You can also test weapons and practise certain mechanics. Would be a big positive imo.
A I agree with most of your comment but you act like fighters shouldn't stack pdr. You realize they are extremely weak to magic based DMG? Also you can stack true phys and armor pen and use a flanged mace or a war hammer or any armor pen based weapon + stack the correct stats. The fighter complaint just sounds like you don't gear correctly to fight them or you don't run away from them which is too easy to do as any other class except barb.
I understand the arguments agains lower TTK, but I still miss the old days of DaD where tanks made sense and people had shitty gear. Nowadays a Tank can run at 320 movespeed, have 170 HP and kill you with 2 hits.
That's why imo they should do minor nerfs to base stats and implement SFS. Most players would have bad builds, the colored item drops in normals would give you that dopamine hit, and fights would be more meaningful, because killing someone using your class could give you more Items that fit your build.
Players would hoard even more, and spent their coin with stash tabs, and the merchants would be that gamba that you try everyday to get a BIS blue item...
@@probong2053 im not talking about fighter, im talking about cleric. cleric can easily be 45% pdr with 315+ movespeed and a dumb amount of healing :D. just saying that fight can take long. we were talking about time to kill if you run away from them the time a fight takes is even longer so proves my point even further
What is the point of solo self found if you basically only limit it to normal mode? Just have a checkable "solo self found" tag that you can tick or untick during character creation, and character with that tag do not have access to the marketboard or the trading post and can only be queued with other characters that also have this tag. It really doesn't need to be this complicated lmao. you could even limit this queue to high roller only, because there is no point really to having normal games only solo self found anyways and we have enough different queues as is
It doesn't have to be solo btw. Limiting it to normal mode IS because of different queues. I don't want to create a new queue, I want to replace the current one.
The real meaning of a Self-Found normal game, would be to recreate the feeling that we had back on the Playtest Era. Where most people had no good items and the TTK was insanely high. Back then, most people were running a form of "Self-Found" only trading items with friends, and doing that in the dungeon, because getting lvl 15 was a bit hard.
@@fenixignis The problem is that the moment you do that you make the barrier of entry for people to cheese the system incredibly low already. You could already queue snipe in solos but in trios the population is low enough that you could very easily just snipe one person, drop all your gear for them and voila, the entirity of the concept is thrown into the bin. Also the majority of people who want solo self found want it for hr mostly, normals is simply not difficult enough for this to matter because your gear already barely matters in low gearscore lobbies
@@smszx We can't define new changes based on the worst players, normal game already has a lot of cheaters. If that was the case, Ironmace would not have turned normals F2P. The "normal game only" aspect, is to keep F2P players engaged with the game for a longer time, it would add a "roguelike" vibe to it, which is very addicting...
Any other way of implementing SFS would create another queue, something that no sane player wants for DaD.
@@fenixignis but you're already adding a separate queue? and i'll be honest with you, the echoing sentiment in the community is just not at all people who want normals only ssf. either both normals and hr or hr only. Normals only just makes zero sense
@@smszx I'm not, I would replace the normals queue.
With the market loot has almost no value, there's no dopamine hit from finding a blue item in normals, because you farm gold, buy items and go in full build. The point of a SFS would be to recreate that "playtest era" feeling. Where most colored items you found were important somehow.
Most players would have bad builds, the colored item drops in normals would give you that dopamine hit, and fights would be more meaningful, because killing someone using your class could give you more Items that fit your build.
Players would hoard even more, and spent their coin with stash tabs, and the merchants would be that gamba that you try everyday to get a BIS blue item...
I think it would be dope if they made it so legendaries are possible out of every box in normal as well.. high roller keeps its higher teir stuff obviously but would be awesome if just any chest has a drop chance for good shit.. even if rare.. i have opened enough chests in normal to know your not getting over a blue EVER.. unless its a gold or lion head
i’m a advocate for the higher ttk side, i hate the fact that people can run away and fully heal and come back, i hate the fact that people can listen to a long fight and then just come in and clean up after its done. IMO they should remove things that allow people to be ambushed, i like the idea of a fair and quick 1v1 where everything could be over in a second if you play it right. but this is coming from a solo player. so my opinions are biased
I think normal gear needs to stay how it is.. not everyone can grind 12 hours daily or on weekends.. nothing worse then finally getting some gear and getting slapped by people who come in with uniques and legendary armor in normals and just wipe the lobby..
In this video I'm talking about limiting it to only blue items (rare) or maybe purple (epic). And add a SFS to the game
I disagree they don't need to make fights last longer, some npc's already last too long imagine need several more hits and just having to dodge the mechanics more.
PVP fights I meant. I guess higher TTK only entinces old DaD players, who loved the Playtests...
I liked multiclassing. wish they could bring it back... Maybe with some balance changes
It's coming back but different.
I love pvp but to grind bosses or tasks I think a pve only would be dope.. my buddy ain't very good at the game and wants to complete tasks.. he always dies lmfaooo also please do not add zone back that shit was ass... I also think your idea for p2p is kinda off.. the only way the game will grow is if it's open to everyone.. I think they need expand the f2p option and keep it one character option but don't have a pay wall for anything.. lock cosmetics to people that buy the game and keep high roller on p2p.. but f2p shouldn't have a cap
se não era brasileiro ? kkk
Bah mas tu ta querendo tirar sangue dos players tambem eih hahahahah