Hey there everyone! We hope you've enjoyed this video, and please let us know what you think should be done to solve the prize money inequality in tennis. Also as I mentioned in the video, here's the link to the article in case you want to check it out: mytennishq.com/how-much-do-tennis-players-make-the-ugly-truth/
this is sad but what it tells you is train your kids to be a good tennis player but don't count on it for making a living for sure. it is way too stressful and uncertain...
Hey Karue, I love this topic! I produce a newly launched sports podcast, would you be interested in discussing this more in-depth and possibly how tennis ATP/WTA could address these issues?
Hi sir u r so right. A coach said to me once tennis is so tough. U play in challengers u b traveling to some small country in south America playing against someone from Germany or wherever arguing points trying to out do each other to earn ranking points to hopefully climb the ladder. If u r so good to win the tournament u get $1000 prize money. Not enough for plane tickets. Most of them have to sleep on the street can't afford lodging. If u r unfortunate and get an injury u r done and since players just focus playing and training for tennis from they were 5, they don't have much schooling n education and know nothing else except tennis. Most resort to coaching local club trying to teach tennis to seniors. It's not glamorous. Only 1 in a million makes it to the top tennis ecillion, it unrealistic. With tennis u need a good backing system ie rich family to support u financially to be able to pursue your dream. Unfortunately most kids don't. If you want your kids to make money, go into baseball, hockey or soccer instead. With tennis just play for recreational or hopefully get a scholarship but don't dream of becoming Federer.
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
I had some friends that played on the pro tour at the Futures level. Their ranking was below 1,000 in the world and while they played mostly within North America, I would hear stories from them about how tough the competition is. Even at the lowest level. Players ranked below 600 in the world are not really able to make it on the tour. In many cases they may be going into debt to finance their dreams. It's a very difficult journey, if you don't have the funding. Thank you for making this video to educate others. I strongly believe that there needs to be a better allocation of prize money for players at the lower level. The system is too "top heavy" and the lower ranked players should be given the chance to achieve their dreams.
If tennis players are complaining about how tough the competition is in a competitive sport shouldnt they just get a day job instead of crying about it??
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
@@AJ-cv9zf Lighten up, no one said they were complaining about it, just said how competitive it can be. An observation is not a complaint. They weren't ' crying ' about it. You read much more into that comment and created things that were not said.
Dude. You are so damn modest. U made it to top 400 in the WORLD and say that is not the hardest thing? Comeon man. Getting to the top 500 in ANYTHING in the world is simply mindboggling. How many people in the world can every dream of that, leave alone achieve it? That too in tennis which is probably one of the toughest of sports like boxing where it is just you against your opponent (like Agassi said) with absolutely no assistance from the outside. On top of that with what you made you cant get assistance from a coach/physio even outside of your match. You were not rewarded for your talent and effort on tour, but your content here on UA-cam is one of the best tennis content there is. Wishing you all the very best.
The quality of this content is so much better than the number of views / subscribes this channel currently has. You should keep it up and the UA-cam algorithm will slowly figure out the good things you're doing here.
My suggestion is that tennis players get a salary per month and the salary is based on what your rank is at the end of the month then winning certain tournaments or reaching high in the tournament can up your salary by a certain percentage. Lets say your 400 in the world and your salary in 8k per month if you make a final on a masters 250 maybe your salary goes up by 10 percent until the next year when the tournament is played again you have to achieve the same round you got to otherwise you lose that additional 10 percent thats been added on. This way players get constant a more consistent pay. I really think ATP should add this because many people cant achieve their dreams of becoming a tennis player because their just not wealthy enough
And who's paying this salary you suggest? I think a better approach is to rethink tournament sponsorships at the lower levels with the sole purpose of increasing player payouts. What is this new approach? Yeah, I dont know but a payout schedule should begin with a 25k winner payout minimum at a professional event and work backward from there.
@@ringo119 ATP ranking.. so ATP pays. Pay the suits at the top less. Its possible. 8K per month for the top 1000 players? ATP cant afford that. You are talking about the top 1000 in the sport.
That's true but besides that the financial situation and structure of tennis is disastrous and shameful. These organisations they do one thing: divide and conquer/exploit. That's why they oppose any unionizing. We need a professional tennis players group so we can have leverage over this stuff. That's why the PTPA has to blow up. Players like Nadal and Federer should be ashamed for taking the easy way out and looking away. We need the PTPA to be strong.
Appreciate your sincerity that you bring to these videos and everything your channel offers in general. Love the in-depth analyses. Thanks for taking the time to do these things man. Wish there was a better way to spread the wealth that felt fair and equitable for all while allowing some of the lower ranked guys the opportunity to stay in the game longer to see if they could crack the uppermost echelons of the sport we all love.
@@KaruesellHQ what is solution? How we can get more money for lower ranked players? Are money in ITF, ATP and WTA? Or lower ranked players need more money from other sources? Shouldn't they be more televised so people know them more so companies can invest in them? Like you said challenger level is already so good. Good example is this grass court season when there is so many "new" players which make break through in ATP level or they even beat top players. Like that Tim guy beat Medvedev in final. They should have definitely more money.
There would be no Djokovic, Federer and Nadal if there wasn't people competing to try and be better than them. I went to the first round of Wimbledon once and got to see Federer play. It was fantastic, but we went out to go and get lunch. As we left I overheard a player and a coach discussing finances. They were saying something a long the lines of what are we going to do now we're out of money. It was genuinely heartbreaking to hear. I would suggest the ATP paying for expenses for lower tier tournaments like challengers. Providing on site facilities like food and hotel which could at the very least be heavily subsidised. In return I guess it would be best to get some kind of commitment from the players towards increasing publicity for the sport. I have no idea how that would work though obviously they need time for training etc. It's a tough one.
@@elissahofelt2575 Thanks. As a designer my job is basically creative problem solving and I'd love to work on some of these problems on tennis. But, I think that there is a reason nobody has. The tennis world is made up of so many disparate organisations. From all the tournaments to each individual nation's tennis governing bodies. I think it must be very difficult for anyone to suggest let alone implement any significant changes. I guess it would come down to the ATP but I don't really know how much control or resources they have.
This is already done. Many countries have an organization that spots local talent and invests in them. Idk what Europe has but the US has the USTA that does this
It would be interesting to hear the costs and income of Futures and Challengers players. Like how much you guys spend on travel, accommodation, gear and training.... and how much you can get on sponsorships, tournament waived fees, hotel and food vouchers, sponsorship bonus on achievements etc ... this could give a better idea for young players who dream playing on futures/challengers (majority of tennis pros)
I think the Grand slams started changing the way they distribute prize money... but more has to be done so that everyone gets a fair chance. Great video thank you for making it!!
Maybe the prize money for each round of a tournament should go up by 50% instead of doubling / 100% -- this might give more players more money in earlier rounds.
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
I’m so glad you mentioned your FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION. If you’re good enough at the age of 17-18 to even entertain the idea of going pro then you’re basically guaranteed to get a full ride at a 4-yr university somewhere. Also, they don’t have a pension/401k/FSA/HSA so what happens if a 400+ player gets injured and needs surgery? No medical benefits means he’s on the hook financially.
Here is my recommendation on how to spread the money deeper into the talent pool. All the big tournaments are the revenue generators, the governing bodies need to be in charge of how that revenue is used. A portion of the revenue needs to subsidize the lower levels events in Futures and Challengers, use it to waive entrance fees and increase prize money. Three million plus dollars for grand slam champion is INSANE, when winning one all but guarantees millions if not tens of millions in endorsements. Kind of like Bernie Sanders economic ideas for tennis, make sure the ultra rich pay their taxes which helps the working class which benefits everybody in the long run even those at the top. Trickle up economics!!!! When there is thriving working class making living wages, they drive the economy by consuming goods and services. The sport overall would thrive more with a wider base, likely driving interest in rec and junior tennis for example.
All four Grand Slams make huge profits but only a relatively small part of that prize money is given back to tennis players, most of it goes into the pockets of the four federations who then spend it on hiring expensive coaches, building training facilities etc. The rest of the tennis world benefits less from the four cashcows than they should.
This is really sad Hence Very few players replacing the older generations. Before it was lots of teens tennis player playing on the pro circuit to replace the older gen before the retiring age was 27-32 now I guess it would reach 40's with this kind of trend . I hope your channel will grow and you will become rich one day and still enjoy tennis Ameen
Here in Brazil you'd have to be born rich if you think about making a career as a professional tennis player. Or, you might earn some money teaching, but that would drain some precious time and energy from high level training
I think this is true for most poor countries. Tennis is still an expensive sport. Eg Rafa Nadal academy will cost you ~60K/year. In poor countries, there is no such thing as public tennis courts...
I know a top 300-500 atp pro, which expressed the same frustrations. I believe that Top 50 ATP pros do deserve their prize money. However, they should subsidize the lower tier ATP rankings but a flatter prize pool sharing. It's also sickining that Grand Slams take in hundreds of millions of dollars every year and top 500 ATP pros barely make a living. Athlete's career is short. Different countries do have sponsorship packages for players though. I believe Canada does pay for a player's coaching and team expenses. Some countries pay for their airline tickets.
Absolutely. There are a few nations where tennis has substantial backing but it is only a handful. If you weren't born in those countries you are out of luck unfortunately.
@@KaruesellHQ Having slogged it out on the satellite tour for 4 years this is so true. You've got to make and sustain a top 100 ranking but really a top 50 ranking to make a decent living out of this.
@@rishbahpandey8697 i see players playing full time and they aren’t in the top 1000s… do they have a side hustle by any chance ? like how do they have so much time to travel and play everyday
As amateur players, we have to PAY to play matches🤣 tennis lovers like myself, willing to pay a good mount of money and time to improve and play, coaching, club fee, equipment like ball machine, traveling to watch tournaments, subscribe UA-cam…and the pool of tennis fan is large. smart pro like you will find a their way to make Fortune, not just prizes. Good luck! Love your channel!
You can say the same for other sports like golf, hockey,, curling, ski, etc.... People want to pay to see the best, otherwise they won't pay... Conclusion: that's life. Life is not a dream...
Watching this for the first time 2 years later. I know a lot of people's knee jerk reaction with this stuff is to say something incoherent about markets bla bla bla. As a fan, my question is are we missing out on players who could be great but never get the opportunity because they literally can't afford to go through the grind? If so, I think it would be worth it for the good of the sport to fix this.
I have always thought the prize money structure in tennis is troublesome. The top players already get so much money from endorsements and appearance fees. They don't really need to get even more money from winning later rounds in a tournament. Tournaments shouldn't double the prize money after each round a player advances They can just offer about the same prize money for each round.
Indeed Covid has increased tennis and golf participation in Seattle, but Pickleball is crazy nuts popular now and are unfortunately converted public tennis courts to it. :(
@@kdoublec973 in atlanta the courts are PACKED. Ive seen a few pickleball people but i think they and the tennis players are either having disagreements or they have their own places to play i havent heard about.
As a tennis lover I have to say that tennis wont be very popular. It is a very hard sport that takes a lot of - Time (practice) - Effort (to improve to enjoy the game) - Money (it's almost impossible to improve without someone teaching you, or feeding you the ball, or hit with you) People who dont spend on the factors above just wont enjoy tennis, I know lots of friends of mine who gets mad and frustrated playing tennis so they never continue. Someone really has to commit in order to love tennis. This is different than soccer and basketball which is easy to learn (bigger base players and fans) but also hard to master. So only 1 in 20 people play tennis.
The main value of becoming a very good (but not world class) tennis player player in the US must be the chance of scholarship at a good university. That is worth more than winning a plethoria of 25K futures.
Can I ask a question? Should I keep practicing hard each week for tennis to become a tennis pro or start studying harder to have a "real life" job? What's tour suggestion?
Thank you for making this video. It is definitely eye opening. Congrats for making it into the top 400 players in the world in just 6 months. This is actually very encouraging. However, I saw pictures you posted that show you playing tennis as a kid. So, please, post at what age you started, how many hours per day did you train, and what resources you had at your disposal at that early age. Thanks in advance. Already gave you a thumbs up, of course, and best of luck in your tennis career. By they way I remember Jokokovic from the time he was playing against Agassi and the other aces of the day. He did not really start winning until he drastically changed his diet. So, training alone does not seem to be the answer. If you treat your body as a car, tune it well, and constantly improve your muscles and movements, eventually you will enter the top 100. Just a thought :)
Great video, Karue. The information you are providing is eye opening. At least for those that still believe that going down the tennis pro path is a glorious one. It can be - just as any other profession. Exception being, most other professions offer more security than that of a tennis pro. Looking at this huge disparity between the top 20 and - say below 350 I feel it is downright unfair. I have a pretty good idea how this situation could be remedied based on various factors. Fact of the matter remains that in tennis as much as in business it is the very few who make very much. Perhaps tennis even in this comparison is still extreme(ly unfair) . So ya - here you see the hard truth. Many top players are in denial or probably don't care that this eventually will hurt the profession.
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
lots of challengers have Hotel paid for athletes, if they could do that in futures, it would help tremendously the cost for the players, hundreds per week can go a long way for futures. if they cant increase prizes money, making the cost lower is also something they could do.
Solution: "taxing", where the tax money gets collected by ITF (or ATP/WTA), who are redistributing it, so that there is something like minimum wage. The same system how states are working. If You live in some of the nordic countries, in spite of high taxes You can still make A LOT of money.
1990 when they changed the ranking system hasn’t helped new players. The bonus points system also helped new players. Pre 90 every year you would see lots of new players ranked in the top 100 each year. The top players used to play less tournaments. But sponsors weren’t happy . It was unbelievable how many matches the top players would play every year which had no effect on their rankings I’m talking about exhibitions, WCT events etc. The year end Masters at Maddison Square Garden, Davis cup also. I know Judy Murray had to take her boys to Spain when they were teenagers to make it as a Pro. 99% of prize money goes to top 1 percent. They should outlaw appearance fees.
Yes... Then there's the manager's cut---even on endorsements? The agent's percentage---even on endorsements? Before or after taxes? ---on bad deals, that would make the star pay their entourage's taxes... Then there's the entourage/team---coach, accountant, lawyer, ball boy, housekeeper ... And expenses, travel, rackets, club memberships... Would you agree that a 15 %? net, 25%? 35%? after taxes and expenses is usually a good guestimate of a star's take?
Very interesting. If ATP doesn’t understand that creating a level playing field is vital for the show I believe this wonderful sport won’t have a bright future at professional level. By level playing field I mean what basket understood some year ago reintroducing the salary cap along with the draft. If you don’t crate uncertainty on a sport event result you don’t have the show. If you don’t have the show you don’t sell it.
Every Future need to be 25k minimum! And Challengers 150k minimum! That will help a lot, but to it happens, ATP and ITF need to put their money. If they change that, a top 350 player, will have a better remuneration.
Not possible. The money comes from sponsors or philanthropists. Tennis clubs that organize these tournaments have very little or no financial gain most of the time. When playing Futures, prize money is the least you think about. The most prized thing is to get ATP points. I speak from experience as I used to play ITF futures It will never be fair.
I think like a lot of athletes find out (even just making it to high level college), you have to use the experience as +++ for your future endeavors. Want to get into coaching, private training, entertainment coverage...being a high level tennis player is hugely beneficial. It's not unlike being a side man in a bad. Those guys don't make anything and it's a hard life. What they do find is that they can make the most money selling their services to people who want to be world class players or just want to be better than their neighbors.
Thanks for making this, I did a rough calculation and it seemed to me that you needed to break into the top 100 to start making anything. For ATP points do you need to win the first round match to get any points? For example at Washington now it lists 0 points for first round but 10 points for a qualifier? Confusing.
I used to earn around 40k annually but had to play money tournaments in Europe to subsidise playing Futures & Challengers! There was zero prise money in Slam Qualies back then. Things have not changed much in the last 20 years.
Great posts all in all! I recently restarted playing and your videos have a lot of great content! Some ideas would be to distribute more evenly the money throughout all the tournaments... leagues within the ranking system that can have a better access to bigger tournaments... parallel organizations within the ATP that can draw attention to their tournaments and their players (a little bit like Mourataglou did in his academy)... everyone wants to see that kid that can potentially be the next great "champion". Thank you!
Tennis is a brutal sport when finance is concerned. I would never ever let my kids play this sport; they will play soccer, baseball, or basketball. Tennis is just not worth it, as even as a top 500 player you will not make a living.
You’d have to completely restructure the ATP/WTA tour to make it work for lower ranked players. It’s not like pro basketball where you’re on a team and you play an 82 match regular season plus tournaments. Its 100% an individual sport and the money comes from tournaments. So as long as the tournaments are offering big prize money, that’s the way it’s going to stay.
I think it's a matter of supply and demand. There are too few pro tournaments offering money to too many players. When you're a certified public accountant, a firm has to search for the best employee using the internet and head hunters. And there are many firms doing this from a select group of candidates. So there is an expectation of a high salary. Maybe if each tournament venue held more high level tournaments offering substantial prize money, the top 400 could have more frequent paychecks. But would the fans pay and the advertisers advertise for tennis that is not top-tier? And is the interest there for more tennis than we already watch? Is the tournament world already saturated or is there any room to expand? And will a person study accounting in college if there is no prospect for a decent paycheck in the future?
When John McEnroe said Serena would be ranked about 700th in the world on the mens tour, what he failed to also state is that there are at least a few thousand men that could also beat her, that aren't even trying to get ATP ranking points. UTR numbers also indicate that John McEnroe's statement is accurate. There are thousands of men that can play at a level to get to 500 in the world but don't even try, or if they do try it is only for 1 or 2 seasons at most. Just like the guy making the video he could have probably stayed in the top 700 in the world for over decade if he wanted to spend $80K/year to make $7k/year, the amount #700 in the world makes.
i just stumbled across this video. here are a couple of thoughts i had. they might not be good ones but here they are... 1. i think college players from the United States should be allowed to keep at least some of their prize money they win at futures. if nothing else, i think it would encourage them to build a financial "war chest" to help them should they turn pro. 2. if there were more prize money available at the lower levels of the tour, i think it would enable more players to stay on the tour which i think would make it possible to find the next star. how many potential stars did the game lose because they had to get "real jobs" because they couldn't go without eating anymore. i understand that this is tennis and you eat what you kill, but your part of the savannah only has scrawny impalas, anyone would move on. thanks! great channel. subbed.
I'm not sure a tennis scholarship is really "free". A former Pac 12 female player has said her lessons and coaching over the years exceeded the 4 years of tuition at her school.
Top D1 colleges get many tennis players from overseas where training is a fraction of the cost it is in U.S. U.S. has no system of developing talent and therefore is no longer a tennis powerhouse.
To any pros in the futures who are not yet capable to reach the podium consistently, don’t appear in so many matches only to lose. Train your body, your strategy, your mind for 1-2 months. Only then go for a couple of tournaments. Don’t go for appearances sake. I have seen a lot of players who go into the tournaments with a defeated mentality because there is a tough player in your path. You give it your all but with that mind set it will be hard. So train longer. Your shorter. Win more especially in the lower level tours. Don’t Perdue rankings at the pace of a top pro by appearing in a gazillion tournaments. Train longer and with a purpose to get to the winners podium. Small steps to big leaps my friends. ❤❤
Kind of seems like it's by design. Those who can't afford to support themselves when they first start the tour dont have a chance. Tennis is screwed from top to bottom at this point. It's nearly impossible find a 5.0 or higher player to practice with. There aren't tournaments like in the past. Leagues run by people with high school mentalities is all there is.
An interesting fact that is not mentioned in this video is the lack of correlation between prize money and points in Challengers and ATPs. An ATP 250 title gives twice as many points as a 125 Challenger title but 4-5 times as much money. What does this mean? It means that some players actually buy their way to an inflated ranking by playing tournaments with good points allocation but poor prize money. Of course, that is only possible if they are backed by sponsors/parents/federation. Players with limited financial muscles have to take prize money much more into account. Also, they can't travel to remote tournaments with weak fields but generous points allocation. An interesting way to see this is to look at players ranked 100-150 and compare the prize money and their UTRs. The differences are sometimes remarkable!
Absolutely. The disparity in pay for guys 100-200 compared to their level agains someone 50-100 is ridiculous. They are so close in level but so far in compensation
This is actually the case for basically every job that involves fame and viewership. Something like 0.1% of the actors/sports players/artists/musicians/UA-camrs make 99% of the money (or something like that, i don't remember the exact numbers). I think it makes sense when you consider that a regular job like engineer or dentist or whatever is providing objectional value to the clients. The value in Nadal playing tennis is subjective and depends on how many fans want to watch.
Yeah but although acting and singing can be expensive, you usually dont have to spend 80-100k to become a succesful actor or singer. The issue is not only that very few people make it, its that you have to spend an absurdly high amount of money to even have a chanche. Of those people who are able and willing to spend that wild amount of money, only very few make it. The others end up in crazy debt if they dont have wealthy parents. And the parents have to be WEALTHY, not just upper middle class. Its absolutely crazy.
@@daqueenbobo Where are you getting this info from? I would imagine it can be very expensive to become a famous singer/actor/artist/etc. I could see the cost of lessons, travel, clothes, etc becoming very high, and after all that effort you could still become a nobody.
@@lkjkhfggd Because you rarely pay those expenses yourself. Sometimes singers do pay it back to their record labels but its not out of their own pockets to begin with. Singers arent funding their own world tours. Actors are hired on projects with budgets, a salary and a union. Art is expensive for sure but an artist rarely has to pay that amount of money out of pocket to begin with. Also art supplies are cheaper than weekly international flights, hotels, rackets/gear and coaching. Dont get me wrong they are all expensive industries filled with inequality, but its really not quite the same. You can also still pursue a career in the arts while having a stable job. You cant be a part time touring atp/wta pro
I knew that it was a grind to make a living in tennis, but it's more comprehensive with the numbers. By the way, you seem to be a very good player in your own rights. You could easily be a hitting partner for the best pros on the ATP Tour. But a pro golfer could make the exact same video as you know and I could think of some other sports as well if not all of them. I agree that there is a need for more balance in the system but the law of supply and demand is tough to ignore when it comes to the lower tournaments on the circuit. An ATP 125 tournament does not attract enough people and money to be able to pay bigger prize money if I understand how it works. So, the only way I see that the situation of all pro tennis players could improve is if the ATP proceeds from the top down. The money is at the top of the food chain where there is enough margin in my opinion to allow the surplus to be distributed to the lower ranking players by increasing the prize money in the lower competition. But I have to mention that this would need a concerted effort by the top players in the world to accept a "pay cut" in order to help the lower ranking players make more money. In other words, what needs to be done is impossible without the richer willing to share with the poorer, which is not only a "tennis" problem as you may have noticed by now. But if there was a will there would be a way. I'd start with lowering the prize money for the biggest tournaments (GS, 1000, 500) by 20% and allocate the difference in pro rata to all the lower tournaments in your graphic from the ATP 250 to the future 15K. You then create a committee with the players association, the organizers of the tournaments and the ATP to make sure that everything is proportionally distributed and to make the necessary rules. And you apply the same formula for the WTA, of course. ;) Easy to say but good luck with the negotiations. :( Thank you for this and I subscribed to give you a push.
Probably Making it a team sport.... I think already is happening in Europe and I saw a Summer league on the USA The teams can take care about prizes (Not the big part of the Cake in things like Football) Teams can Pay salaries to players, have coaching staffs, traveling expenses etc. Finally will take care of recruiting prospects (investing on them) ATP will take care of things like minimum wage for tennis players and salary caps for teams
Golf is very similar. I had the chance to turn pro when I was a kid. I was off 5 when I was off 20. I got down to 1 but I wasn’t even a county player. I know a kid who got down to plus 3 turned pro and even has a world ranking but he earns less than me . I play golf as a hobby. Only the top 100 or so earn a decent living. In golf only top 65 out of a field of 140 plus make the cut and earn money. It’s a cut through business but doesn’t stop people chasing their dreams. Great video by the way
Watching Miami Open, Haber and Navratilova discussed the kind of money most of the tour players earn. After factoring in travelling expenses, taxes, etc., what is the cut-off rank from when an ATP player is making a good living versus making enough money just to play the tour? For example, #100 and up, and I'm gettin' paper. Or, #101 and below I'm living off Top Ramen, but I'm playing tennis for a living.
My guess is most atp/WTA ranked players don’t make money when they were on the tour. They make money after they retired and go into coaching. A retired atp ranked player charges $300.00/hr here in Bay Area. D1 player charges $120/hr.
Just need more money in these tournaments along with bigger draws so that more players that are lower ranked get a chance to play and compete. How is this achieved? Beats me! Maybe they can take some money away from the higher end tournaments.
The competition is supposed to be tough. Otherwise the quality of the sport globally will drop drastically, and the audience will stop to come and watch the matches. Simple logic.
It's the same in most popular sports individual or team. Golf is very similar. In the English football league you cannot compare the earnings of the multi-millionaire players in the premier league with the those in leagues 2 & 3.
The ATP or USTA should have a Draft Class for all the elite college players kinda like they do with the NBA or NFL. The ATP or USTA should draft at least 20-30 of the best college players, showcasing how fast and how athletic they are. That exposure alone will shed a different light on Tennis. It will bring in more media to bring in a lot of money, so that way they can fund them for 1-2 years depending how high they get drafted. Like if you agree
The entire structure of tennis needs to change. It’s still a sport for wealthier people. Travelling, coaches, medical care and proper physio etc. It’s incredibly expensive. If you are out there on your own it’s virtually impossible to make it even if you are a very good player. There needs to be some form of salary or sponsorship in place for lower level tournaments. At the very least things like travel, accommodations and food should be taken care of. Televise the lower level tournaments, make them into a professional league. Bring it to the public and the families out there. We don’t need to see Nadal vs Federer to watch great tennis.
Playing professional tennis is so expensive if you are outside the top 300 that a lot of players who could be ranked 500 don't bother. Alas, the 500th ranked player in the world is hardly among the best 500 players by ability, it's just that another 1,000 players with similar skills have given up because they couldn't afford to compete. If the prize money in ATPs and Challengers increased so a player ranked top 250 could travel comfortably AND set aside some money, I think the talent pool in Challengers would grow and that would also impact the quality of the players ranked 50-100. This would benefit TV viewers and spectators and tournaments.
@@bengray5013 Just because there's some fancy legal definition of "union" that excludes people who are self-employed, it doesn't mean that they can't set up a collective bargaining scheme that functions as a union.
One idea would be to hold fewer futures tournaments per year and increase the prize money at those lower levels. This would cut down on traveling expenses for players and would also give them more time to recover. The players would also receive more prize money for every round that they win. If they were to win a 25k futures event it might pay out $10,000 to the winner instead of $3,500.
Can I ask you just one question. In order to get to the podium of any of the top tournaments, how much effort should the players put in, vs how much effort is put in by the player into training and strategy to consistently get knocked out in the earlier rounds of said tournaments. So isn’t the amount of prize money for winners and losers supposed to be different. Otherwise who would put in all that effort just to make a salary difference of around 1-2000 bucks. To make more money in tennis you need just need to be consistent and win more matches. Isn’t that true in any sport. 😢 I feel your pain but the slams already increased the prize money for the lower level matches just for showing up. Once the other tournaments get more money to the pool they can allot more to the lower level players. But isn’t it quite unfair to ask the winners to take a pay cut to pay for the losers salary.🤔🙏
Here in the East Coast u can make a great living teaching tennis like $80k a year. ATP tour resume can make more!!! U have to transition to teaching kids an adults...maybe start an elite program. How much does Kraue make now teaching?
Karue I know this is so random and you’re the best person I could ask when it comes to this question ! If the money you make isn’t enough to live a sustainable life off tennis, what do you really do? Do you have a side hustle ?
sumo wrestling's money is much more evenly distributed and i think it makes the sport really healthy. i think we'd see more young stars rise up if there was better distribution in tennis. the basic method is that after a certain ranking you get a salary. imagine you get a salary for being a top 400 player?! I think you'd see more players battle to make top 400 and more top 400 stick with it, improve, and eventually challenge for the top 10.
I think it’s fair in most sports if you’re not in the top 100 you don’t get paid big money also that should plenty of incentive for players to keep rising and getting better
I think there should be a fundamental principle that governs the distribution of prize money, and that is: what is the pay structure that would maximize the overall revenue of the sport, for all players. I mean both extremes are bad. If everyone is paid equally, not sure there would be much interesting competition. But if only the winner is paid, then there would be very few playing. So the competition also suffers. In a sense, this is the job of ATP and tournament directors. In practice, this is a really hard question, and probably depends on many different factors. I just don't know if anyone is thinking about it hard. I am a scientist, and if there is someone willing to give me the data, I'm happy to try to take a look.
I’m sure Tennis is also giving you discipline and health and mental fortitude which you can always bring into so many other arenas. It’s also something you can enjoy for your entire life. And there’s nothing so satisfying as a tennis win in my opinion.
Hi there, thanks for the video! I'd love to hear your opinion, being a former pro on the tour, what do you think is the best solution? I have heard about this pay inequality in the past, and totally agree we need to support upcoming players; at least in the top 500-1000. How about creating an truly independent organization/union that supports all players in the top 500-1000 for both men and women? Then as players they can then negotiate with the ATP/WTA/Grand Slams/other tournaments for fair pay for all. Is Djokovic currently involved in trying to create something like this? I've heard I think from a Vasek Pospisil article that Grad Slam organizations are not transparent at all with their money. If all players agreed to be part of an organization that truly represented them (the ATP and WTA does not), then they could negotiate a fair compensation/living wage for the top 500-1000. Thoughts? And is there is there support for something like this from most players, including ones in the top 100? Top 10?
Simple reason .tennis slams only give 12-14 percent of their revenue in prize money whereas most sports league give 45-50 percent of their revenue.even golf PGA tour gives 32 percent which need way way more money in maintainance than tennis.if slam increase money then players will earn double and that will be a good money
Did Karue just beat out all the kids @1:34? 😂 But in all seriousness, can we also talk about how expensive Tennis is as a sport? From equipments to court reservations to coaches. This makes the sport very restrictive and less relatable. We get less variety of players playing the game (as oppose to easily accessible basketball and soccer), and in turn, less interests/viewership every year.
Tennis is very top heavy. The guys on the challenger tour really don’t make that much at all. However with a sport like golf the money is more evenly distributed. You could play on the pga tour and never win a title in your career and still be ridiculously rich.
Another thing that would be useful to know is how much work/time/effort is required by players in each of the categories? For ex, top players probably spend all day everyday training but maybe 1000 ranked player is just doing it as a hobby. Also, if 76% make less than 20k a year, then how in the world do they continue playing tennis?
I like knowing how much more money i make as a tennis coach than i would as a pro player. Would be nice to travel more tho. I would like to know what you studied at UCLA.
Hey there everyone! We hope you've enjoyed this video, and please let us know what you think should be done to solve the prize money inequality in tennis. Also as I mentioned in the video, here's the link to the article in case you want to check it out:
mytennishq.com/how-much-do-tennis-players-make-the-ugly-truth/
You did'nt say enything about Novak Jokovic traying to help with new independent organization to got more mony from ATP for lover ranking players
I would say money at the top will make players strive harder to reach the top. You have got to earn it.
this is sad but what it tells you is train your kids to be a good tennis player but don't count on it for making a living for sure. it is way too stressful and uncertain...
Hey Karue, I love this topic! I produce a newly launched sports podcast, would you be interested in discussing this more in-depth and possibly how tennis ATP/WTA could address these issues?
Hi sir u r so right. A coach said to me once tennis is so tough. U play in challengers u b traveling to some small country in south America playing against someone from Germany or wherever arguing points trying to out do each other to earn ranking points to hopefully climb the ladder. If u r so good to win the tournament u get $1000 prize money. Not enough for plane tickets. Most of them have to sleep on the street can't afford lodging. If u r unfortunate and get an injury u r done and since players just focus playing and training for tennis from they were 5, they don't have much schooling n education and know nothing else except tennis. Most resort to coaching local club trying to teach tennis to seniors. It's not glamorous. Only 1 in a million makes it to the top tennis ecillion, it unrealistic. With tennis u need a good backing system ie rich family to support u financially to be able to pursue your dream. Unfortunately most kids don't. If you want your kids to make money, go into baseball, hockey or soccer instead. With tennis just play for recreational or hopefully get a scholarship but don't dream of becoming Federer.
Not best money-making tennis player there is, but definitely best tennis channel on youtube. has to be said!
Thank you! Share it with your friends and maybe we can make a little bit of money with it lol 😂👊🏻
True from a pro tennis player
Agreed. I've watched a lot of tennis channels and this sits near the top for sure
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
@@KaruesellHQ lol
I had some friends that played on the pro tour at the Futures level. Their ranking was below 1,000 in the world and while they played mostly within North America, I would hear stories from them about how tough the competition is. Even at the lowest level. Players ranked below 600 in the world are not really able to make it on the tour. In many cases they may be going into debt to finance their dreams. It's a very difficult journey, if you don't have the funding. Thank you for making this video to educate others. I strongly believe that there needs to be a better allocation of prize money for players at the lower level. The system is too "top heavy" and the lower ranked players should be given the chance to achieve their dreams.
If tennis players are complaining about how tough the competition is in a competitive sport shouldnt they just get a day job instead of crying about it??
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
@@AJ-cv9zf Dumb comment.
@@AJ-cv9zf Lighten up, no one said they were complaining about it, just said how competitive it can be. An observation is not a complaint. They weren't ' crying ' about it. You read much more into that comment and created things that were not said.
Novak is trying to raise the issue with it but atp hates it
Dude. You are so damn modest. U made it to top 400 in the WORLD and say that is not the hardest thing? Comeon man. Getting to the top 500 in ANYTHING in the world is simply mindboggling. How many people in the world can every dream of that, leave alone achieve it? That too in tennis which is probably one of the toughest of sports like boxing where it is just you against your opponent (like Agassi said) with absolutely no assistance from the outside. On top of that with what you made you cant get assistance from a coach/physio even outside of your match. You were not rewarded for your talent and effort on tour, but your content here on UA-cam is one of the best tennis content there is. Wishing you all the very best.
The quality of this content is so much better than the number of views / subscribes this channel currently has. You should keep it up and the UA-cam algorithm will slowly figure out the good things you're doing here.
My suggestion is that tennis players get a salary per month and the salary is based on what your rank is at the end of the month then winning certain tournaments or reaching high in the tournament can up your salary by a certain percentage. Lets say your 400 in the world and your salary in 8k per month if you make a final on a masters 250 maybe your salary goes up by 10 percent until the next year when the tournament is played again you have to achieve the same round you got to otherwise you lose that additional 10 percent thats been added on. This way players get constant a more consistent pay. I really think ATP should add this because many people cant achieve their dreams of becoming a tennis player because their just not wealthy enough
You are legend
And who's paying this salary you suggest? I think a better approach is to rethink tournament sponsorships at the lower levels with the sole purpose of increasing player payouts. What is this new approach? Yeah, I dont know but a payout schedule should begin with a 25k winner payout minimum at a professional event and work backward from there.
@@ringo119 ATP ranking.. so ATP pays. Pay the suits at the top less. Its possible. 8K per month for the top 1000 players? ATP cant afford that. You are talking about the top 1000 in the sport.
@@ringo119 ATP tennis TV stuff maybe?
There's more to life than buying something for a dollar and sell it for two. The joy and life experience we get from tennis is priceless.
That's true but besides that the financial situation and structure of tennis is disastrous and shameful. These organisations they do one thing: divide and conquer/exploit. That's why they oppose any unionizing. We need a professional tennis players group so we can have leverage over this stuff. That's why the PTPA has to blow up. Players like Nadal and Federer should be ashamed for taking the easy way out and looking away. We need the PTPA to be strong.
Plus the top who already take in most of the prize money also get all the endorsements. Great Video!
Appreciate your sincerity that you bring to these videos and everything your channel offers in general. Love the in-depth analyses. Thanks for taking the time to do these things man. Wish there was a better way to spread the wealth that felt fair and equitable for all while allowing some of the lower ranked guys the opportunity to stay in the game longer to see if they could crack the uppermost echelons of the sport we all love.
Thank you!
@@KaruesellHQ what is solution? How we can get more money for lower ranked players? Are money in ITF, ATP and WTA? Or lower ranked players need more money from other sources? Shouldn't they be more televised so people know them more so companies can invest in them? Like you said challenger level is already so good. Good example is this grass court season when there is so many "new" players which make break through in ATP level or they even beat top players. Like that Tim guy beat Medvedev in final. They should have definitely more money.
There would be no Djokovic, Federer and Nadal if there wasn't people competing to try and be better than them.
I went to the first round of Wimbledon once and got to see Federer play. It was fantastic, but we went out to go and get lunch. As we left I overheard a player and a coach discussing finances. They were saying something a long the lines of what are we going to do now we're out of money. It was genuinely heartbreaking to hear.
I would suggest the ATP paying for expenses for lower tier tournaments like challengers. Providing on site facilities like food and hotel which could at the very least be heavily subsidised. In return I guess it would be best to get some kind of commitment from the players towards increasing publicity for the sport. I have no idea how that would work though obviously they need time for training etc.
It's a tough one.
Those are some good ideas, and needed to assist these players in staying on the tour.
Well said.
@@elissahofelt2575 Thanks. As a designer my job is basically creative problem solving and I'd love to work on some of these problems on tennis.
But, I think that there is a reason nobody has. The tennis world is made up of so many disparate organisations. From all the tournaments to each individual nation's tennis governing bodies. I think it must be very difficult for anyone to suggest let alone implement any significant changes.
I guess it would come down to the ATP but I don't really know how much control or resources they have.
There should be a ATP fund to recognize and support talented players at their beginning career stage.
This is already done. Many countries have an organization that spots local talent and invests in them.
Idk what Europe has but the US has the USTA that does this
Excellent video! Sorry for the non-related tennis question, what camera/lens you are using? Your image looks so sharp and good!
Fujifilm XT3, 18-55mm lens. Love the camera and it looks sick as hell
It would be interesting to hear the costs and income of Futures and Challengers players. Like how much you guys spend on travel, accommodation, gear and training.... and how much you can get on sponsorships, tournament waived fees, hotel and food vouchers, sponsorship bonus on achievements etc ... this could give a better idea for young players who dream playing on futures/challengers (majority of tennis pros)
I think the Grand slams started changing the way they distribute prize money... but more has to be done so that everyone gets a fair chance. Great video thank you for making it!!
Maybe the prize money for each round of a tournament should go up by 50% instead of doubling / 100% -- this might give more players more money in earlier rounds.
It's like 75% I think
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
Well said. The top players & tourneys should share more with those who struggle. Tennis as a whole would benefit.
Agreed!
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
I’m so glad you mentioned your FREE COLLEGE EDUCATION. If you’re good enough at the age of 17-18 to even entertain the idea of going pro then you’re basically guaranteed to get a full ride at a 4-yr university somewhere.
Also, they don’t have a pension/401k/FSA/HSA so what happens if a 400+ player gets injured and needs surgery? No medical benefits means he’s on the hook financially.
Absolutely
Here is my recommendation on how to spread the money deeper into the talent pool. All the big tournaments are the revenue generators, the governing bodies need to be in charge of how that revenue is used. A portion of the revenue needs to subsidize the lower levels events in Futures and Challengers, use it to waive entrance fees and increase prize money. Three million plus dollars for grand slam champion is INSANE, when winning one all but guarantees millions if not tens of millions in endorsements. Kind of like Bernie Sanders economic ideas for tennis, make sure the ultra rich pay their taxes which helps the working class which benefits everybody in the long run even those at the top. Trickle up economics!!!! When there is thriving working class making living wages, they drive the economy by consuming goods and services. The sport overall would thrive more with a wider base, likely driving interest in rec and junior tennis for example.
All four Grand Slams make huge profits but only a relatively small part of that prize money is given back to tennis players, most of it goes into the pockets of the four federations who then spend it on hiring expensive coaches, building training facilities etc. The rest of the tennis world benefits less from the four cashcows than they should.
@@MMM18092 sounds about normal.
This is really sad Hence Very few players replacing the older generations. Before it was lots of teens tennis player playing on the pro circuit to replace the older gen before the retiring age was 27-32 now I guess it would reach 40's with this kind of trend . I hope your channel will grow and you will become rich one day and still enjoy tennis Ameen
Hahah I love tennis and I'll always be a part of it. That's why we started the channel! Thank you for your support 👊🏻
One of the ideas (solutions) in my next video. Which is coming at the end of the week. Come and say "Hi" =)
Will do, Illyia
Here in Brazil you'd have to be born rich if you think about making a career as a professional tennis player.
Or, you might earn some money teaching, but that would drain some precious time and energy from high level training
It does. I was a full time teaching pro for five years. It's a lot of fun but also very demanding. Both physically and emotionally.
I think this is true for most poor countries. Tennis is still an expensive sport. Eg Rafa Nadal academy will cost you ~60K/year. In poor countries, there is no such thing as public tennis courts...
Same in india
@@quesee08there is public tennis courts in Colombia
I know a top 300-500 atp pro, which expressed the same frustrations.
I believe that Top 50 ATP pros do deserve their prize money. However, they should subsidize the lower tier ATP rankings but a flatter prize pool sharing. It's also sickining that Grand Slams take in hundreds of millions of dollars every year and top 500 ATP pros barely make a living. Athlete's career is short.
Different countries do have sponsorship packages for players though. I believe Canada does pay for a player's coaching and team expenses. Some countries pay for their airline tickets.
Absolutely. There are a few nations where tennis has substantial backing but it is only a handful. If you weren't born in those countries you are out of luck unfortunately.
Only entitled and spoilt people think everything should be paid for them with someone elses money
Ive heard players say that if you cant crack the top 100, dont bother.
Pretty much. And even then you need to stay there for sometime to recover all the investment up to that point
@@KaruesellHQ Having slogged it out on the satellite tour for 4 years this is so true. You've got to make and sustain a top 100 ranking but really a top 50 ranking to make a decent living out of this.
@@DaleSavageAttorneyatLaw top 150 can earn decent,top 100 good and top 50 excellent
@@DaleSavageAttorneyatLaw nowadays prize money is increased
@@rishbahpandey8697 i see players playing full time and they aren’t in the top 1000s… do they have a side hustle by any chance ? like how do they have so much time to travel and play everyday
As amateur players, we have to PAY to play matches🤣 tennis lovers like myself, willing to pay a good mount of money and time to improve and play, coaching, club fee, equipment like ball machine, traveling to watch tournaments, subscribe UA-cam…and the pool of tennis fan is large. smart pro like you will find a their way to make Fortune, not just prizes. Good luck! Love your channel!
You can say the same for other sports like golf, hockey,, curling, ski, etc.... People want to pay to see the best, otherwise they won't pay... Conclusion: that's life. Life is not a dream...
Watching this for the first time 2 years later. I know a lot of people's knee jerk reaction with this stuff is to say something incoherent about markets bla bla bla. As a fan, my question is are we missing out on players who could be great but never get the opportunity because they literally can't afford to go through the grind? If so, I think it would be worth it for the good of the sport to fix this.
I have always thought the prize money structure in tennis is troublesome. The top players already get so much money from endorsements and appearance fees. They don't really need to get even more money from winning later rounds in a tournament. Tournaments shouldn't double the prize money after each round a player advances They can just offer about the same prize money for each round.
I think this Covid-19 will revitalize tennis. It's the only sport that's safe to play in this new era.
Pickleball?
@@kdoublec973 definitely not as big as tennis.
Indeed Covid has increased tennis and golf participation in Seattle, but Pickleball is crazy nuts popular now and are unfortunately converted public tennis courts to it. :(
@@kdoublec973 in atlanta the courts are PACKED. Ive seen a few pickleball people but i think they and the tennis players are either having disagreements or they have their own places to play i havent heard about.
As a tennis lover I have to say that tennis wont be very popular.
It is a very hard sport that takes a lot of
- Time (practice)
- Effort (to improve to enjoy the game)
- Money (it's almost impossible to improve without someone teaching you, or feeding you the ball, or hit with you)
People who dont spend on the factors above just wont enjoy tennis, I know lots of friends of mine who gets mad and frustrated playing tennis so they never continue. Someone really has to commit in order to love tennis. This is different than soccer and basketball which is easy to learn (bigger base players and fans) but also hard to master. So only 1 in 20 people play tennis.
The main value of becoming a very good (but not world class) tennis player player in the US must be the chance of scholarship at a good university. That is worth more than winning a plethoria of 25K futures.
Exactly. That is what most players should do if they aren’t world class
Can I ask a question? Should I keep practicing hard each week for tennis to become a tennis pro or start studying harder to have a "real life" job? What's tour suggestion?
I mean I don’t know who you are, your level or anything about you. There is no reason why you can’t do both. Play and study
You can be a 4.0 or 4.5 and make great money!!!
Thank you for making this video. It is definitely eye opening. Congrats for making it into the top 400 players in the world in just 6 months. This is actually very encouraging. However, I saw pictures you posted that show you playing tennis as a kid. So, please, post at what age you started, how many hours per day did you train, and what resources you had at your disposal at that early age. Thanks in advance. Already gave you a thumbs up, of course, and best of luck in your tennis career. By they way I remember Jokokovic from the time he was playing against Agassi and the other aces of the day. He did not really start winning until he drastically changed his diet. So, training alone does not seem to be the answer. If you treat your body as a car, tune it well, and constantly improve your muscles and movements, eventually you will enter the top 100. Just a thought :)
wow love this video.. thank you for the info and keep it up!!!
Great video, Karue. The information you are providing is eye opening. At least for those that still believe that going down the tennis pro path is a glorious one.
It can be - just as any other profession. Exception being, most other professions offer more security than that of a tennis pro.
Looking at this huge disparity between the top 20 and - say below 350 I feel it is downright unfair. I have a pretty good idea how this situation could be remedied based on various factors.
Fact of the matter remains that in tennis as much as in business it is the very few who make very much. Perhaps tennis even in this comparison is still extreme(ly unfair) .
So ya - here you see the hard truth. Many top players are in denial or probably don't care that this eventually will hurt the profession.
Thank you for the support. Sensitive topic but hope we can shine a light on it
Yep. If more money goes to lower players, it will help players who need the income. Right now it's a rich kid's game, where rich kids can take years to work on achieving their dream, while normal people have almost no time. Normal players often only have one year to "score or die".
lots of challengers have Hotel paid for athletes, if they could do that in futures, it would help tremendously the cost for the players, hundreds per week can go a long way for futures. if they cant increase prizes money, making the cost lower is also something they could do.
Solution: "taxing", where the tax money gets collected by ITF (or ATP/WTA), who are redistributing it, so that there is something like minimum wage. The same system how states are working. If You live in some of the nordic countries, in spite of high taxes You can still make A LOT of money.
great video, keep up the good work! I would also like to know how much do hitting partners make and cost of a coach, trainer, travel expenses etc
1990 when they changed the ranking system hasn’t helped new players. The bonus points system also helped new players. Pre 90 every year you would see lots of new players ranked in the top 100 each year. The top players used to play less tournaments. But sponsors weren’t happy . It was unbelievable how many matches the top players would play every year which had no effect on their rankings I’m talking about exhibitions, WCT events etc. The year end Masters at Maddison Square Garden, Davis cup also. I know Judy Murray had to take her boys to Spain when they were teenagers to make it as a Pro. 99% of prize money goes to top 1 percent. They should outlaw appearance fees.
Yes... Then there's the manager's cut---even on endorsements? The agent's percentage---even on endorsements? Before or after taxes?
---on bad deals, that would make the star pay their entourage's taxes... Then there's the entourage/team---coach, accountant, lawyer,
ball boy, housekeeper ... And expenses, travel, rackets, club memberships... Would you agree that a 15 %? net, 25%? 35%? after taxes and expenses
is usually a good guestimate of a star's take?
Não sabia que era brasileiro,principalmente de Jaraguá do sul,conte mais sobre como foi sua trajetória do Brasil ao USA
Very interesting. If ATP doesn’t understand that creating a level playing field is vital for the show I believe this wonderful sport won’t have a bright future at professional level.
By level playing field I mean what basket understood some year ago reintroducing the salary cap along with the draft.
If you don’t crate uncertainty on a sport event result you don’t have the show. If you don’t have the show you don’t sell it.
Every Future need to be 25k minimum! And Challengers 150k minimum! That will help a lot, but to it happens, ATP and ITF need to put their money. If they change that, a top 350 player, will have a better remuneration.
Couldn't agree more
Not possible. The money comes from sponsors or philanthropists.
Tennis clubs that organize these tournaments have very little or no financial gain most of the time.
When playing Futures, prize money is the least you think about. The most prized thing is to get ATP points.
I speak from experience as I used to play ITF futures
It will never be fair.
Hope PTPA will improve this financial situation for the players ranked 200 & below.
It's really sad to know this truth.
Yeah it is. The truth is they are not good enough and should stop complaining
I think like a lot of athletes find out (even just making it to high level college), you have to use the experience as +++ for your future endeavors. Want to get into coaching, private training, entertainment coverage...being a high level tennis player is hugely beneficial. It's not unlike being a side man in a bad. Those guys don't make anything and it's a hard life. What they do find is that they can make the most money selling their services to people who want to be world class players or just want to be better than their neighbors.
Thanks for making this, I did a rough calculation and it seemed to me that you needed to break into the top 100 to start making anything.
For ATP points do you need to win the first round match to get any points? For example at Washington now it lists 0 points for first round but 10 points for a qualifier? Confusing.
I used to earn around 40k annually but had to play money tournaments in Europe to subsidise playing Futures & Challengers! There was zero prise money in Slam Qualies back then.
Things have not changed much in the last 20 years.
Great posts all in all! I recently restarted playing and your videos have a lot of great content! Some ideas would be to distribute more evenly the money throughout all the tournaments... leagues within the ranking system that can have a better access to bigger tournaments... parallel organizations within the ATP that can draw attention to their tournaments and their players (a little bit like Mourataglou did in his academy)... everyone wants to see that kid that can potentially be the next great "champion". Thank you!
Tennis is a brutal sport when finance is concerned. I would never ever let my kids play this sport; they will play soccer, baseball, or basketball. Tennis is just not worth it, as even as a top 500 player you will not make a living.
You’d have to completely restructure the ATP/WTA tour to make it work for lower ranked players. It’s not like pro basketball where you’re on a team and you play an 82 match regular season plus tournaments. Its 100% an individual sport and the money comes from tournaments. So as long as the tournaments are offering big prize money, that’s the way it’s going to stay.
I think it's a matter of supply and demand. There are too few pro tournaments offering money to too many players. When you're a certified public accountant, a firm has to search for the best employee using the internet and head hunters. And there are many firms doing this from a select group of candidates. So there is an expectation of a high salary. Maybe if each tournament venue held more high level tournaments offering substantial prize money, the top 400 could have more frequent paychecks. But would the fans pay and the advertisers advertise for tennis that is not top-tier? And is the interest there for more tennis than we already watch? Is the tournament world already saturated or is there any room to expand? And will a person study accounting in college if there is no prospect for a decent paycheck in the future?
When John McEnroe said Serena would be ranked about 700th in the world on the mens tour, what he failed to also state is that there are at least a few thousand men that could also beat her, that aren't even trying to get ATP ranking points. UTR numbers also indicate that John McEnroe's statement is accurate. There are thousands of men that can play at a level to get to 500 in the world but don't even try, or if they do try it is only for 1 or 2 seasons at most. Just like the guy making the video he could have probably stayed in the top 700 in the world for over decade if he wanted to spend $80K/year to make $7k/year, the amount #700 in the world makes.
Great comment. You're spot on
Why bring Serena into this? It adds nothing.
@@rsmith02 How about this? If the women played against the men, the #1 woman in the world would earn about $7000/year in prize money.
i just stumbled across this video. here are a couple of thoughts i had. they might not be good ones but here they are...
1. i think college players from the United States should be allowed to keep at least some of their prize money they win at futures. if nothing else, i think it would encourage them to build a financial "war chest" to help them should they turn pro.
2. if there were more prize money available at the lower levels of the tour, i think it would enable more players to stay on the tour which i think would make it possible to find the next star. how many potential stars did the game lose because they had to get "real jobs" because they couldn't go without eating anymore. i understand that this is tennis and you eat what you kill, but your part of the savannah only has scrawny impalas, anyone would move on.
thanks! great channel. subbed.
I'm not sure a tennis scholarship is really "free". A former Pac 12 female player has said her lessons and coaching over the years exceeded the 4 years of tuition at her school.
Top D1 colleges get many tennis players from overseas where training is a fraction of the cost it is in U.S. U.S. has no system of developing talent and therefore is no longer a tennis powerhouse.
To any pros in the futures who are not yet capable to reach the podium consistently, don’t appear in so many matches only to lose. Train your body, your strategy, your mind for 1-2 months. Only then go for a couple of tournaments. Don’t go for appearances sake. I have seen a lot of players who go into the tournaments with a defeated mentality because there is a tough player in your path. You give it your all but with that mind set it will be hard. So train longer. Your shorter. Win more especially in the lower level tours. Don’t Perdue rankings at the pace of a top pro by appearing in a gazillion tournaments. Train longer and with a purpose to get to the winners podium. Small steps to big leaps my friends. ❤❤
a barista works more than8 a hours a day. A tennis players is a part time job. Per hour they get a lot more.
Kind of seems like it's by design. Those who can't afford to support themselves when they first start the tour dont have a chance. Tennis is screwed from top to bottom at this point. It's nearly impossible find a 5.0 or higher player to practice with. There aren't tournaments like in the past. Leagues run by people with high school mentalities is all there is.
An interesting fact that is not mentioned in this video is the lack of correlation between prize money and points in Challengers and ATPs. An ATP 250 title gives twice as many points as a 125 Challenger title but 4-5 times as much money. What does this mean? It means that some players actually buy their way to an inflated ranking by playing tournaments with good points allocation but poor prize money. Of course, that is only possible if they are backed by sponsors/parents/federation. Players with limited financial muscles have to take prize money much more into account. Also, they can't travel to remote tournaments with weak fields but generous points allocation. An interesting way to see this is to look at players ranked 100-150 and compare the prize money and their UTRs. The differences are sometimes remarkable!
Absolutely. The disparity in pay for guys 100-200 compared to their level agains someone 50-100 is ridiculous. They are so close in level but so far in compensation
This is actually the case for basically every job that involves fame and viewership. Something like 0.1% of the actors/sports players/artists/musicians/UA-camrs make 99% of the money (or something like that, i don't remember the exact numbers).
I think it makes sense when you consider that a regular job like engineer or dentist or whatever is providing objectional value to the clients. The value in Nadal playing tennis is subjective and depends on how many fans want to watch.
Yeah but although acting and singing can be expensive, you usually dont have to spend 80-100k to become a succesful actor or singer. The issue is not only that very few people make it, its that you have to spend an absurdly high amount of money to even have a chanche. Of those people who are able and willing to spend that wild amount of money, only very few make it. The others end up in crazy debt if they dont have wealthy parents. And the parents have to be WEALTHY, not just upper middle class. Its absolutely crazy.
Like it doesnt cost that much to be a youtuber, most youtubers dont have to spend their life savings to even start a channel.
Also its very much in the best interest of the sport to break down the wealth barriers, so that we can the most talented and exciting players.
@@daqueenbobo Where are you getting this info from? I would imagine it can be very expensive to become a famous singer/actor/artist/etc. I could see the cost of lessons, travel, clothes, etc becoming very high, and after all that effort you could still become a nobody.
@@lkjkhfggd Because you rarely pay those expenses yourself. Sometimes singers do pay it back to their record labels but its not out of their own pockets to begin with. Singers arent funding their own world tours.
Actors are hired on projects with budgets, a salary and a union.
Art is expensive for sure but an artist rarely has to pay that amount of money out of pocket to begin with. Also art supplies are cheaper than weekly international flights, hotels, rackets/gear and coaching.
Dont get me wrong they are all expensive industries filled with inequality, but its really not quite the same. You can also still pursue a career in the arts while having a stable job. You cant be a part time touring atp/wta pro
I would like to compare these salaries to professional golfers of the same rankings.
I knew that it was a grind to make a living in tennis, but it's more comprehensive with the numbers.
By the way, you seem to be a very good player in your own rights. You could easily be a hitting partner for the best pros on the ATP Tour.
But a pro golfer could make the exact same video as you know and I could think of some other sports as well if not all of them.
I agree that there is a need for more balance in the system but the law of supply and demand is tough to ignore when it comes to the lower tournaments on the circuit. An ATP 125 tournament does not attract enough people and money to be able to pay bigger prize money if I understand how it works.
So, the only way I see that the situation of all pro tennis players could improve is if the ATP proceeds from the top down. The money is at the top of the food chain where there is enough margin in my opinion to allow the surplus to be distributed to the lower ranking players by increasing the prize money in the lower competition.
But I have to mention that this would need a concerted effort by the top players in the world to accept a "pay cut" in order to help the lower ranking players make more money.
In other words, what needs to be done is impossible without the richer willing to share with the poorer, which is not only a "tennis" problem as you may have noticed by now.
But if there was a will there would be a way.
I'd start with lowering the prize money for the biggest tournaments (GS, 1000, 500) by 20% and allocate the difference in pro rata to all the lower tournaments in your graphic from the ATP 250 to the future 15K.
You then create a committee with the players association, the organizers of the tournaments and the ATP to make sure that everything is proportionally distributed and to make the necessary rules.
And you apply the same formula for the WTA, of course. ;)
Easy to say but good luck with the negotiations. :(
Thank you for this and I subscribed to give you a push.
Probably Making it a team sport.... I think already is happening in Europe and I saw a Summer league on the USA
The teams can take care about prizes (Not the big part of the Cake in things like Football)
Teams can Pay salaries to players, have coaching staffs, traveling expenses etc.
Finally will take care of recruiting prospects (investing on them)
ATP will take care of things like minimum wage for tennis players and salary caps for teams
Golf is very similar. I had the chance to turn pro when I was a kid. I was off 5 when I was off 20. I got down to 1 but I wasn’t even a county player. I know a kid who got down to plus 3 turned pro and even has a world ranking but he earns less than me . I play golf as a hobby. Only the top 100 or so earn a decent living. In golf only top 65 out of a field of 140 plus make the cut and earn money. It’s a cut through business but doesn’t stop people chasing their dreams. Great video by the way
Thank you
Watching Miami Open, Haber and Navratilova discussed the kind of money most of the tour players earn. After factoring in travelling expenses, taxes, etc., what is the cut-off rank from when an ATP player is making a good living versus making enough money just to play the tour? For example, #100 and up, and I'm gettin' paper. Or, #101 and below I'm living off Top Ramen, but I'm playing tennis for a living.
My guess is most atp/WTA ranked players don’t make money when they were on the tour. They make money after they retired and go into coaching. A retired atp ranked player charges $300.00/hr here in Bay Area. D1 player charges $120/hr.
Just need more money in these tournaments along with bigger draws so that more players that are lower ranked get a chance to play and compete. How is this achieved? Beats me! Maybe they can take some money away from the higher end tournaments.
How is this achieved you ask? Well get your head down and work for it instead of crying about the competition
Hey! Vc é brasileiro karue?? Como assim sempre assisto seus vídeos e nunca pensei q vc tivesse nacionalidade brasileira!!
Do you pay for accomidation or the tournament provides for you.
The competition is supposed to be tough. Otherwise the quality of the sport globally will drop drastically, and the audience will stop to come and watch the matches. Simple logic.
Can we follow what PGA does ? they seem to have much better support and prize money structure than ATP tour does
Best income for tennis players is coming from... coaching others/newbies.
Just subscribed to your channel. Lots of great stuff here. Really cool to hear about your career. Lots of respect to you!
Thank you Sam!
It's the same in most popular sports individual or team. Golf is very similar. In the English football league you cannot compare the earnings of the multi-millionaire players in the premier league with the those in leagues 2 & 3.
The ATP or USTA should have a Draft Class for all the elite college players kinda like they do with the NBA or NFL. The ATP or USTA should draft at least 20-30 of the best college players, showcasing how fast and how athletic they are. That exposure alone will shed a different light on Tennis. It will bring in more media to bring in a lot of money, so that way they can fund them for 1-2 years depending how high they get drafted. Like if you agree
The entire structure of tennis needs to change. It’s still a sport for wealthier people. Travelling, coaches, medical care and proper physio etc. It’s incredibly expensive. If you are out there on your own it’s virtually impossible to make it even if you are a very good player. There needs to be some form of salary or sponsorship in place for lower level tournaments. At the very least things like travel, accommodations and food should be taken care of. Televise the lower level tournaments, make them into a professional league. Bring it to the public and the families out there. We don’t need to see Nadal vs Federer to watch great tennis.
could not agree with you more
Very enlightening video on pay for tennis players. It is brutal.
Playing professional tennis is so expensive if you are outside the top 300 that a lot of players who could be ranked 500 don't bother. Alas, the 500th ranked player in the world is hardly among the best 500 players by ability, it's just that another 1,000 players with similar skills have given up because they couldn't afford to compete. If the prize money in ATPs and Challengers increased so a player ranked top 250 could travel comfortably AND set aside some money, I think the talent pool in Challengers would grow and that would also impact the quality of the players ranked 50-100. This would benefit TV viewers and spectators and tournaments.
Players need to unionize and it has to come from the Big 3
@@bengray5013 Just because there's some fancy legal definition of "union" that excludes people who are self-employed, it doesn't mean that they can't set up a collective bargaining scheme that functions as a union.
I think the reason for the huge inequality is because of the tv coverage and sponsors and advertisements paying to be shown in the big matches
If your rank is 500-1000, you might as well get a day job. It's all coming down to how big is your audience is.
How does that work?
One idea would be to hold fewer futures tournaments per year and increase the prize money at those lower levels. This would cut down on traveling expenses for players and would also give them more time to recover. The players would also receive more prize money for every round that they win. If they were to win a 25k futures event it might pay out $10,000 to the winner instead of $3,500.
Yes but it would limit the amount of players that could sign up and play
Can I ask you just one question. In order to get to the podium of any of the top tournaments, how much effort should the players put in, vs how much effort is put in by the player into training and strategy to consistently get knocked out in the earlier rounds of said tournaments. So isn’t the amount of prize money for winners and losers supposed to be different. Otherwise who would put in all that effort just to make a salary difference of around 1-2000 bucks. To make more money in tennis you need just need to be consistent and win more matches. Isn’t that true in any sport. 😢 I feel your pain but the slams already increased the prize money for the lower level matches just for showing up. Once the other tournaments get more money to the pool they can allot more to the lower level players. But isn’t it quite unfair to ask the winners to take a pay cut to pay for the losers salary.🤔🙏
Here in the East Coast u can make a great living teaching tennis like $80k a year. ATP tour resume can make more!!! U have to transition to teaching kids an adults...maybe start an elite program. How much does Kraue make now teaching?
Karue I know this is so random and you’re the best person I could ask when it comes to this question ! If the money you make isn’t enough to live a sustainable life off tennis, what do you really do? Do you have a side hustle ?
You’re literally looking at his side hustle
sumo wrestling's money is much more evenly distributed and i think it makes the sport really healthy. i think we'd see more young stars rise up if there was better distribution in tennis. the basic method is that after a certain ranking you get a salary. imagine you get a salary for being a top 400 player?! I think you'd see more players battle to make top 400 and more top 400 stick with it, improve, and eventually challenge for the top 10.
I think it’s fair in most sports if you’re not in the top 100 you don’t get paid big money also that should plenty of incentive for players to keep rising and getting better
I think there should be a fundamental principle that governs the distribution of prize money, and that is: what is the pay structure that would maximize the overall revenue of the sport, for all players. I mean both extremes are bad. If everyone is paid equally, not sure there would be much interesting competition. But if only the winner is paid, then there would be very few playing. So the competition also suffers. In a sense, this is the job of ATP and tournament directors. In practice, this is a really hard question, and probably depends on many different factors. I just don't know if anyone is thinking about it hard. I am a scientist, and if there is someone willing to give me the data, I'm happy to try to take a look.
I’m sure Tennis is also giving you discipline and health and mental fortitude which you can always bring into so many other arenas. It’s also something you can enjoy for your entire life. And there’s nothing so satisfying as a tennis win in my opinion.
Very helpful video bro 👌👍❤️
Thank you Hady! 🙌🏼
Hi there, thanks for the video! I'd love to hear your opinion, being a former pro on the tour, what do you think is the best solution? I have heard about this pay inequality in the past, and totally agree we need to support upcoming players; at least in the top 500-1000. How about creating an truly independent organization/union that supports all players in the top 500-1000 for both men and women? Then as players they can then negotiate with the ATP/WTA/Grand Slams/other tournaments for fair pay for all. Is Djokovic currently involved in trying to create something like this? I've heard I think from a Vasek Pospisil article that Grad Slam organizations are not transparent at all with their money. If all players agreed to be part of an organization that truly represented them (the ATP and WTA does not), then they could negotiate a fair compensation/living wage for the top 500-1000. Thoughts? And is there is there support for something like this from most players, including ones in the top 100? Top 10?
Great video, thanks.
Simple reason .tennis slams only give 12-14 percent of their revenue in prize money whereas most sports league give 45-50 percent of their revenue.even golf PGA tour gives 32 percent which need way way more money in maintainance than tennis.if slam increase money then players will earn double and that will be a good money
I thought the real reason is that the team sports have dozens of team that have dozens of people.
You have the best channel!!!!!
Hey, looks like your vcore 98 link is not working.. i wanted to buy 2 racquets
Tennis Warehouse: www.tennis-warehouse.com/?from=tenhq
É isso aí. Mais um Catarina pelo mundo. Essa vida de tenista não é fácil. Sucesso, abraço!
Did Karue just beat out all the kids @1:34? 😂
But in all seriousness, can we also talk about how expensive Tennis is as a sport? From equipments to court reservations to coaches. This makes the sport very restrictive and less relatable. We get less variety of players playing the game (as oppose to easily accessible basketball and soccer), and in turn, less interests/viewership every year.
Tennis is very top heavy. The guys on the challenger tour really don’t make that much at all. However with a sport like golf the money is more evenly distributed. You could play on the pga tour and never win a title in your career and still be ridiculously rich.
Great video! Definitely the greatest university in the world. Go Bruins!
Another thing that would be useful to know is how much work/time/effort is required by players in each of the categories? For ex, top players probably spend all day everyday training but maybe 1000 ranked player is just doing it as a hobby.
Also, if 76% make less than 20k a year, then how in the world do they continue playing tennis?
Wealthy parents, coaching kids, local sponsors perhaps
Pro rock climbers face the same challenges. Lots of differences btn the two sports, but choice btn life passion and salary are similar.
I like knowing how much more money i make as a tennis coach than i would as a pro player. Would be nice to travel more tho. I would like to know what you studied at UCLA.
Very insightful.