YMS Rants About Avatar: The Way of Water for 33 Minutes
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- Опубліковано 28 гру 2022
- Full stream: • 2022 Quickie Catchup /...
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HD is processing so come back in 30 minutes if you want 1080p
Epic
Nah 360p is sufficient thanx
Its ok i want i wanted it raw
No, I'll come back when its 4k. It'll be 4k right? No one does 4K.
So no 4K?
"thank you legendary war chief for leaving us all behind to fend for ourselves against the invading humans while you enjoy your family holiday to Barbados"
I was thinking that too. I was like “wait aren’t you the leader of the army? Aren’t you the sole reason why these people are able to organize and defend themselves” can we atleast cut back occasionally to see how his community is holding up without him. Maybe have the military guys pretend to assimilate with the locals to understand them better. Or have a big chase/fight scene where they get ambushed by the native warriors. It genuinely feels like a whole part of the movie was cut out.
@@kingcyclops4079 or utterly glossed over because JC couldn't think of good writing
I thought the blue team was going to decimate the forest navi and that's how he was going to learn his lesson that running doesn't work.
@@schoudh good idea, better than theirs fs
Yeah this ruined the entire movie for me lmao, the entire time I was just thinking about how his tribe is probably dead.
"It's weird that they invented an entire language and just didn't use it."
That's the one creative throughline of this franchise. Create something unique and different, get scared that it's so unique and different that it won't make a billion dollars, then water it down until it's generic enough to make a billion dollars.
fr, like in the first film when everything interesting to look at comes out at night and then they set all the action scenes during the day, when everything looks like a generic forest
@@makeitthrough_ wars hardly ever happen at night. And if everything interesting comes out at night then why would the military attack at night?
@@Regu269 It's a fucking fantasy movie.
@@Owl90 This attitude results is most of the garbage released today.
All you would have to do is create a scenario where war is forced into the night, like the aliens running a succesful raid in the night that forced the war upon the humans, or a human strike team with the general leading them, being caught, and him calling reinforcements, or hell just start the war in the morning and have the aliens just do small ground tactics throughout the morning while preparing larger tactics that can be used on humans at the night. This is easy.
Eh, I don't think whether the war is shot in the day or at night plays a huge difference in the story... it wasn't a big part of the story to make it day vs night, and they could even give it reason, like "human active camouflage" that makes them blend in with the lights, which usually Naviri feel safe with, since it's well lit.
There we go, story reason that's enough to make you not question too hard, and an excuse to use pretty imagery, which is the director's strong suit. Plus makes the humans a threat, since blue people can beat machines with a whale.
they were self-aware that they have overdone kidnappings and had the youngest child say "i cant believe i got caught again"
"Guys I think the script is messed up, his kids get kidnapped like four times."
"Uh that's our script, just add a funny line to fix it."
It's called lampshading and yes, nobody likes it when it's used unironically
And that was one of the worst lines in the whole movie. The whole final battle was fucking terrible but that was the worst
"Huagh, Huagh, Huagh! The script acknowledges how shitty it is, that makes it better! Huagh, Huagh, Huagh!!!"
@@Loeffellux my audience laughed when she said that. The Deadpool effect.
Dont forget the deus ex machina jellyfish which allows you to breathe underwater but only when the story allows it to spawn near you
I swear. The moment it got introduced it i just thought " wait why wouldn't everyone have one of this at anytime " and i couldn't stop thinking about it for the rest of the movie.
Isn't that more like cinematic liberty? I don't think everything has to make total sense in a movie that's already breaking tons of rules in terms of reality.
Eywa sends them at the end to help. This has been established since the first film.
Same I was loling when they introduced these devices after all the characters had mastered holding their breaths underwater. XD
This channel and it's fans are cinema sins watchers that want to feel smart
“We’re sea people now.” THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS
I liked how the military guys were like we need to fit in, speak their language, while wearing military outfit and carrying an AR15.
The driving force of this entire movies plot is sullys kids being kidnapped repeatedly. It’s so mind numbing
It's him being a terrible father not being able to stop his kids from venturing into a war zone 😂
@Favio Avalos Is that you James Cameron??
@Favio Avalos Dude, we understand the movie. its just not great story telling.
@Favio Avalos I'm sorry for wanting the kids to be more then just a 'weakness' or 'strengths' and actually be good characters I care about in this 3 hour movie?
I'm sorry, even if that was the intention that doesn't get rid of the fact that they where just boring child characters in a story about family I've seen told better in other media.
@Favio Avalos Saying he's on the path of redemption when he purposely burned down entire villages? Like yeah, he didn't kill anyone personally, but that's a bit of a low bar. He was still doing the same colonial shit as in the first one. I'm not seeing where you're pulling this redemption stuff from aside from he didn't want one kid's throat cut.
Honestly, I couldn't believe how refreshing it was on 1899 that Germans spoke German, danish spoke danish ect. Like stop treating the audience like they're babies who can't read
Who the hell wants to read subtitles for 3 and half hours?
@@Schafe44 literates
@@Schafe44 i enjoy all media with subtitles, unless it's a comedy, because then i usually read the line before the character gets to deliver the line, and that spoils the joke.
for some reason, movies and TV shows have really poorly balanced audio and I'll miss stuff without subtitles
@@TuriGamer learn that language then ?? No?? That's silly?? Why should the film cater to you when you won't cater to it
Lol those are real languages, not a made up one with barely any words in it.
For a movie that was in production for a little more than a decade, the script felt like it was written in the span of two days by a 16 year old who’s favorite movie is T2.
It's James Cameron, who brought us the famous dialogue of "I'll be back".
Trainspotting 2 or terminator 2
It's James Cameron. The script is as legit as fast and furious or mission impossible. It's a spectacle movie.
Honestly the script felt like it was intened for a sequel two or three years after the first one but got delayed due to the technology.
@@LushOffiziell Transformers 2
The most annoying thing about the movie is that the tribe keeps going on about "the way of water" but the way of water just amounts to holding your breath for a long time and riding those sea creatures. Should it not have been something more mysterious or inspiring?
It reminds me of how in The Last Jedi the movie is almost kind of laughing at people who think the force *isn't* just about moving rocks with magic.
like?
@@ashfox7498 amazing that ppl like this still exist
They explain the whole "cycle" of the way of water.
NO.
I thought the whole marines disguising themselves as Na’vi would play a bigger role than just being able to bring back the villains that got killed in the first film. Also they didn’t address the fact that they have the capability to endlessly clone people over and over through the memory upload thing they did for the colonel. Spider didn’t need to spare him at the end if they want him in the 3rd movie, they could just upload his memory into another avatar
If they had to make another clone, the new one wouldn't have the unique memories the first clone made while on Pandora and wouldn't remember that Spyder saved him I guess ?
On the "why don't they just make infinite Quaritches" thing, I think they established that it's an extremely expensive process, and also if he keeps being sent to Pandora and getting killed presumably they'll figure he's not that good and stop cloning him.
You are completely right that it'd make way more sense to do the Avatar thing with actual spies, and not meathead soldiers who stick out like sore thumbs.
Why even bother with clones? Just bomb them from orbit and poison their oceans.
@@videogamenostalgia Also the fact that IT TAKES AN ACTUAL DECADE BACK AND FORTH TO PANDORA.
You obviously haven’t been paying attention. He saved his father’s life because the father saved his. It showed the son he loves him. If you can’t fathom why a son would save his father then idk what to tell you.
I'm surprised he didn't mention the fact that the water people were prepared to go into battle and Sully was like "No I'll go alone" and then his family were fighting the humans, but the water people were NOWHERE TO BE FOUND. They just disappeared..
Sully and his family went to fight the humans and I guess that whole tribe just decided to go home. No one brings this up. Where did they go!? How why and where did they disappear??
People were so uninvested in the story that no one even thinks to question such a huge plot hole.
Alot of the humans on the boat also disappeared. My head cannon while watching was that the humans evacuated and the water people are still fighting with them off screen.
I wondered that too
The daughter of the tribe's leaders was with them on the boat too, and later stayed with the corpse of their eldest son, but I guess nobody from her tribe was worried about her.
They took some damage, the battle was chaos. I just assumed they retreated to regroup.
The water people went home because they knew Sully was an idiot and was hoping he would be killed in his suicide mission
I feel so bad because the effects team did an astonishing job, but dialogue and plot just hindered it all for almost 3 hours. Millions of dollars and they couldn’t find writers for a decent script? Wtf?
Couldn’t find, or refused to find?
@@markiangooley both?
Rings of Power was 500 million and they wouldn't even hire good writers.
They don't care about the quality of the story, as long as it includes all the studio scenes.
Ahh yes the plot is so bad. Making 1Billion in 14 days (When Top gun maverick got it 30 days) totally means the script is not even decent XD Everyone is loving the film, you are disconnected from reality. Tell your parents to go to the cinema and watch them come saying they just saw a masterpiece
I felt that way about the original movie so I just don't even care about the sequel at all.
You know I'm in a discord server with a guy who was insanely enthusiastic about the building of a franchise this big & Avatar in general. Gave alot of really interesting buildup updates, went through various multi media project style comics that kind of filled some gaps, and made some pretty good speculations. Somehow though, like only half the stuff he talked about came into being. One of the bigger points of focus that for some reason they never even MENTIONED, being how Spider, the feral human kid who was adopted by the Sully's. Was going to have some kind of very integral plot where the humans swayed him to their side by promising that they could give him something he might've always wanted... His own Avatar body. It's something that legit surprised me how they didn't even think to write anything about it. Or even went out of their way to mention it as a possibility.
Shit I just realized how much that makes sense. He sees an avatar body in a cryo chamber every single day at that lab, hell one that is connected to kitty. His father is in an avatar body and shown to his son that he indeed died at one point.
HOW DID THEY THINK TO NOT BRING THAT UP TO HIM. Everything was right there from the start
okay ill come back to this after avatar 3 betttt 🙀
the worst crime of avatar way of water is NOT using the music they wrote for the first teaser
I felt like The Way of Water felt more interested in setting up the sequels than telling a story, at the end of a day i don't feel like a lot happened outside Sully's son dying and water tribe finally accepting them because of that, the rest was either left unexplained, forgotten or reset back to status quo so you can go watch Avatar 3: The Desert Adventure.
Also if Neytiri will keep being written as only angry crying women™ i will lose my mind.
Neytiri was a little disappointing for sure. She was a great character in the first movie but here she's just some angry and emotional woman for many parts of the film. I did like Sigourney Weaver's character though, out of all the kids. Spider's character did feel intriguing for me due to the conflict of being a human raised by Na'vi but that's just my opinion. I do realize why his character gets a lot of hate.
Don't forget she threatens to kill (what is basically) her own foster kid for pointless revenge.
@@ElGrabnar Are we suppose to like her after that?
"You can't expect actors to learn an entire language for a movie"
Like the actors in Apocalypto who learned classical Yucatan Maya for that one movie?
That didn't make Apocalypto good though, did it?
As I recall, some of the cast from Memoirs of a Geisha didn't speak English and had to learn their lines phonetically.
@@laurendearnley9595 to be fair, that’s not much different than what the Twin Peaks actors did to speak backwards. Only Michael Anderson (I believe) was able to do it fluently.
Ana de Armas of Blade Runner 2049 fame also spoke phonetically for her lines in her two first Hollywood produced movies prior to her becoming fluent in English. While
Armas shows it is entirely possible to have actors speak phonetically as opposed to being fluent, it just isn't terribly practical to have that expectation for multiple actors to do that for a constructed language for one movie production.
The Fifth Element is a good example of that concept being done well, shoutout to Leeloo
all of this. Also where the hell did the water tribe go during the final fight? the chef's daughter was still kidnapped, but they just pieced.
Ik you meant chief but the image of the chief going into battle on his glider fish thing with a chef hat on is so funny
Too few people even noticed that
The whole water tribe just disappeared from the fight all together at some point it took me out of the movie.
@@jadeharley7190 lol woops, that's 2am typing I guess XD
My friend's late sister got special permission to independently study Na'vi as a language for her foreign credits in high school. She probably made a more passionate argument for it than JC ever would. I can't believe he just threw it out entirely!
He threw what out entirely?
@@PatrickOMulligan portraying the na'vi speaking their language
@@PatrickOMulligan no. When it's Jake's perspective it's in English but any other avatar or human it has subtitles
I thought there was going to be a cool plotpoint about how since the bad guy came back in a Na’vi body he would be more connected to the world of Pandora and learned to love the world and hook his braid thing into the Pandora neural network……
I also thought that's what they might go for!! Maybe they're just going to drag it out for as long as possible over like 3 or 4 more movies? I really thought his first break would be when he connected with the flying bird thing for the first time. But I guess not?
They are very clearly setting him up for some kind of redemption, seeing how he gave up his mission for his son's life
@@du6167 definitely going to happen in the third one. Only to do a 180⁰ in the fourth or fifth film and be cartoonishly evil again.
In the immortal words of Mr. Plinkett, “Plot convenience equals movie suck.”
Plinkett died almost 10 years ago.
@@qwertyMrJINX He clearly said "immortal".
@@qwertyMrJINX fake news, Mr. Plinkett has been around for hundreds of years.
Not really but okay
@@qwertyMrJINX True evil never dies
Bruh every time the human-Avatar hissed, I was in tears 😂
They didn't even gave him a shirt or a pair of boots after they "recruited" him lmao
I couldn't believe they were playing that straight 😂
But that's what feral people do according to stereotypes.
He wants to be a Na'vi and was raised with them.
@@Nightstalker314 N... no? They showed that that's what Navi do since the first movie? And Spider was raised by Navi? So Why would he not do it? All of the other Navi in this movie also do it?
In defense of the punch scene, it would appear that physically the hands of the sea people are unsuited for punching. Its a minor morphological difference, but they have a sort of fin-like ridge that runs along their forearm, wrist and part of their pinky finger in order to aid them in swimming (similar to how their tails are larger and flattened when compared to the forest people). The fingers as a group also appear to angle inwards so that the shape of the hand makes a more flipper-like shape when held like this ✋️. This would mean that they wouldn't be able to fold them into a fist as easily, unlike the more humanoid hands of the kids, which have parallel fingers. Additionally, throwing a solid punch is a surprisingly complex mechanical action, and gains much of its power from the proper alignment of bones in the hand, arm and shoulder. It's entirely possible that the skeletal structure of the Navi arm simply isn't suited to align this way. Finally, while they are vaguely humanoid, the relatively large canines and long, strong limbs of the Navi indicate that they likely evolved from ambush predators (likely similar to a big cat, unsurprisingly), which would disable and immobilize prey via grappling before going in for a fatal bite.
In summary, it's entirely possible that the Navi literally haven't seen someone get punched in the face before, and that the sully kid was taking advantage of his altered physiology against the bullies. I think he even says something to the effect of "yeah, I'm a freak with my 5 finger alien hands, but they can do something cool that yours cant".
(Hope this could provide some answers. I don't have a degree or anything yet, but I am currently studying evolutionary biology and morphology. I just really enjoyed this scene, and was saddened to hear that other people didn't, and wanted to see if I could make it a little cooler for people)
I am just baffled that Cameron spent 13 years on this project and, while that same time frame was used to develop new cutting-edge CGI technology, couldn't come up with a screenplay that doesn't feel so slapped-together.
Another problem is when the whale hunters explain that the whale syrum stops human aging, making it "the most valuable thing in the universe" despite the fact that humans have already invented immortality as you can just transport your consciousness into a new body, a new "avatar". Thats literally what the first movie is about and james just forgot. It would still probably be valuable, but not as valuable as they claim. Not even the world building is thought out.
Probably because the avatar cloning was just available for soldiers and scientists.
I'm pretty sure Avatar cloning doesn't transfer consciousness, just memories and personality.
the reuploaded brain given to the soldier avatars may be their memories but it's not *them*. jake is removed from his body and put into his avatar but that was a rare and difficult thing that only the na'vi seem to be able to do
@@TuriGamer I don't think it's as simple as "we're here for one thing." The intent seems to be to pillage Pandora for all of its resources. Rare metals, lands, its very life essence.
@@TuriGamer They can want more than one thing
My small gripe comes from Jake Sullys zero concern about humans returning. He was a vet who, you would assume, has seem the dark side of human nature and would understand our relentlessness of colonization.
There would be an assumption that the humans are going to return and it would be a priority to prepare for that. But instead he just forgot and had a bunch of kids.
how did you expect him to prepare? he surely trained and fortified his shelters but i dont know what else you wanted him to do
They could have all the tribes fight each other like all of history and not involved the humans
That's for the next movie.
Yes. He should share his knowledge to as many tribes as possible. I first movie he was able to summon a great host from other tribes. That kind of alliance between tribes should be kept up and cooperation should continue. They should be building better defences for all tribes and creating weapons that are better against humans.
They should be scouring the planet for incoming humans and defeat or keep them contained.
If possible they should try to get in contact with humans and maybe come to somekind of deal and get humans to recognise the Navi as a intelligent people and not as savages they can just kill and scare away.
On brand for a marine tho
IT TOOK 12 YEARS TO MAKE
Boyhood, eat your heart out!
It broke new ground!
12 years, and they couldn't come up with a decent script
i get that feeling of the world seeming smaller sooo much. especially when its a major plot point in the first movie that they lose jake in the forest and are essentially like "he's fucked, there's no way we're going to find him". but then quaritch can just conveniently bump into whoever he needs in the forest.
He doesn't tho. He kidnaps the kid to force him out. Second time he tries by going tribe to tribe he fails and has to attack the whales while leavening a calling card
But that is not what happens in the movie. They dod not run in to each other randomly on the planet, they are in the same area and are checking out the same places.
A huge problem in my book is that Jake & Neytiri never felt like they were ever in real danger. I actually really liked the concept of the Quaritch & Marine Avatar clones because what you're effectively getting is the best of both worlds with human elite soldier experience meets Navi physiology, sorta like what Jake displays. The villains should be ripping apart Jake's tribe constantly yet almost their entire squad gets wiped out the first encounter. So it makes it unbelievable that Sully's feel they need to excommunicate themselves and leave for the water tribe when they clearly are superior to those doofuses in every way.
Not to be that person, but for all of JC’s talk about pregnant women as hero’s he really fucked over the women in this movie besides maybe the chieftess. The two girls were weaker and didn’t fight much which is weird considering Neitiri is a highly skilled Navi warrior princess and Jake is a soldier who seemed like he trained the boys, idk why they wouldn’t train the girls the same way other than sexism tbh. Not to mention them getting kidnapped for like half the movie and barely doing anything to fight their attackers. Kiri had heavy Mary Sue vibes and the little one was a burden for most of it. And then neitiri…..poor girl. First her father dies protecting her fallen home, she kills the sky people only to have them come back and destroy more of her home. She’s forced to move her family to a place she clearly doesn’t like/isn’t comfortable in, breaks the bow that was the last physical reminder of her father, and still ends up losing a child. And like, how did she not pick up on the breathing techniques with Sully when the kids did? No one was going to tell them about the super useful underwater creature that helped them breathe underwater? She really didn’t have a lot to do and the movie felt like it wanted to keep her sidelined to make way for everyone else which is a shame bc I’d argue her writing and characterization was one of the better parts of the first.
Considering how one girl is a small child and the other is noted as having a tendency to just stop it probably isn't worth it
Am I the only one who noticed how bad kiri’s voice acting is? It sounds soooo out of place
Exactly...i found their character was cringe. Damsels in distress situation and their manly strong brother coming to protect the weak helpless 👍sisters
lmao, one is like 5 years old and the other has random seizures, you really think we want this on the front lines? Also wasn't that the entire point of the movie that Jake wanted to protect his children by himself so they don't have to know war? And he gets scared when even his boys go to fight?
@@thechugg4372 I mean I don’t think the seizures started till she connected with the spiritual reef thing, doesn’t seem like they were happening before, been a while since I saw it. But if that’s the case why give his sons guns and stuff to patrol (the shipping container scene) and teach them military lingo, strategies, etc. like it seems like only the boys know this stuff which is weird
I am a non-english speaker and I mostly watch english movies thus reading subs has become so natural to me that it is a part of the movie watching experience for me.
Same and watching movies in original language is way better anyway because most dubs suck ass
Same here.
Hell, I even watch English movies WITH English subtitles cause it's better to know exactly what they're saying instead of chancing having to guess what someone is saying over a loud scene.
Same
Same. I can't watch movies without subtitles.
Don't worry same here, it's just pretty typical for english audiences to *forget* that other countries tend to watch their movies with subtitles because we don't always want to listen to the dub version. it's just their ethnocentricity showing
Ok so I'm not the only one who thought that the movie every so often began to look like a video game cutscene because of the increased framerate. I thought I was losing my mind for awhile there.
would have been cooler if they spent this much time and money on a video game to begin with tbh, i wouldnt even care about the shit story if i could fk around in an open world pandora
I felt the initial kidnapping had some narrative justification. Quaritch has motive to check out his sight of death; and Jake’s children are some of the only people who view that place any differently than the rest of the forest. Can’t make any excuses for the rest of the awful hostage situations Quaritch finds himself with during the third act.
Quaritch, almost dead, ship completely destroyed, 10 thousand humans dead, half of his squad wiped out: "got one kid jake, I will NOT hesitate to shoot don't test me!"
Doesn't shoot, gets destroyed in a fight.
@@thechugg4372 And? They overestimated the abilities of these tribes and their numbers. We saw much worse fuck-ups in real life, recently. 10 thousand? Being dramatic are we? "I'll shoot don't test me" I know it's weird, but people lie.
As a non-native english speaker, it seems so fine to watch movies with subtitles. The only problem I have with it is that ALL SUBTITLES were in PAPYRUS!!!!! How am I supposed to read 3:30 of text in papyrus :(
I just assume the same people who complain about reading subtitles are the ones who ignore warning signs and instructions and then wonder why they're in trouble.
Most Americans hate subtitles because mainstream movies don't use them
Subtitles compensate for an extreme loss in fidelity by adding clutter to the visuals. Avatar did it best by acknowledging the gap while retaining understandable speech
@@rootfish2671 I think the answer is simpler: their education system puts them off reading.
No I hate subtitles cause they are distracting for me and take me out of the movie. It might be because my eyes are not that good but I can’t read them without focusing a good amount on them. I also know that for foreign movies the director likely did not shoot or edit the movie with the intention that there would be text at the bottom of the screen the whole time so I also feel like they go against artists intent. I greatly prefer it when movies have a character speak a different language and they just don’t have subtitles at all and instead you can just figure out the gist of what they are saying through context clues like in Speed Racer for example. I honestly want to learn more languages just so I can watch some great movies instead of read them.
most ppl dont want to read a movie bro 😂 how ignorant are you with your little bubble youre in. not everyone likes what you like
I liked how at the end of movie when spider was being held hostage by a woman he’s known his whole life, and seems to be in real danger since she’s in like a blood lust, and just, doesn’t react to that, he’s really like calm about it
My guess is that they'll make him into more of a villainous character in the next film. He'll have a delayed reaction to Zoe Saldana's character threatening him and suddenly feel like an outcast from the family or something. Though I feel if that is what they're planning, they could have hinted at it in this film first.
The frame rate shifts were jarring for me. I would say that the biggest issue was the story and specific things that shocked me how dumb they were. First of all, Jake and his family leaving would only theoretically protect his family. What's stopping the humans from still attacking the tribe they left behind? It's like he knows that the humans only mission is to kill Jake, which was also dumb because killing Jake doesn't automatically eliminate any Navi threat; he's just one guy. Also, quaritch captured spider and tells him his mask has a tracking device. How about let spider escape and DON'T tell him his mask is being tracked so he would lead them right to Jake's tribe? I could go on but this comment is long enough. Point is, I don't think I'll ever watch this movie again despite how impressive the visuals are because nothing makes sense story wise.
Like i read somewhere: People who went to see this movie to nitpick about the story dont like cinema as an spectacle.
They establish that the tribe is well-protected, which just raises the question of why Jake’s family had to leave at all.
@@CabezasDePescado What the fuck you are talking about? To give a good spectacle you need a goos story, everyone that dedicates their life to showmanship knows that. Top Gun 2 has a good story and very good action sequences, thus it is actually a fun movie (unlike Avatar 2)
@@CabezasDePescado can you give an example of a movie that embodies what cinema as a spectacle means? The only thing that comes to mind is Nope, because that was kind of the main theme. I was extremely impressed with the visuals especially anything water related looked amazing and I think it will hold up visually for probably decades.
@@ajzeg01 actually, I thought that since the bad guys were now Navi they could safely approach that area without triggering the immune response of the environment/animals meaning it was no longer well protected.
I'm shocked Adam didn't know the composer was James Horner. Cameron/Horner is a pairing up there with Burton/Elfman, Zemeckis/Silvestri, and Spielberg/Williams
also Cronenberg / Shore, Miyazaki / Hisaishi 🙂
same
Damn bro you’re so smart and knowledgeable, you should run YMS
Nolan/Zimmer.
My favorite part was when Sigourney Weaver child finds her mom in the boat and comforts her and just sounds so so much older than her…because she IS
Also the one thing I was looking forward to was the visuals of course. The mocap and whatnot is good, but honestly I think some of this is going to age super poorly. That shark type creature that chases the son did not look good in motion at all, and some of the submarines the humans had chasing the kids were also just clearly moving unnaturally. Just felt wildly inconsistent
Finally someone a little critical of Avatar 2. Had the MCU done the exact same script, the internet would fume about it endlessly. When so many UA-cam reviewers are saying Avatar now has story depth, I thought I was going insane
(E: I implied that A2 was about as mediocre as an MCU movie. How exactly did that make people think I was an MCU fanboy)
It was the first movie again, but water. Same villain but blue. The first at least created an interesting world. Avatar as a franchise is a snooze fest for me.
@@El-Gato69 how exactly was it the same movie 💀
Pretty much everyone has been critical of the poor writing
@@El-Gato69 I thought no one remembered Avatar 1?
@@groxiverde they don't, that's why they don't realize it's the exact same story
James Cameron replaced the composer after he died? Wow. I thought that would double the chances of him being brought back for the sequel.
Hey oh! I see what you did there
Actually they hooked up his voice box to an A.I. for third movie
No one's ever really gone...
But for real, RIP the previous composer.
or atleast bring james horner back as a avatar
Honestly it really feels like this movie was a casualty of the story expanding. After they got to the water tribe it felt like it was just being written around a checklist of things that Avatar 2 needs to accomplish. Though considering sources seem to be describing Avatar 3’s assembly cut as insanely long it doesn’t surprise me that a shitload of stuff needs to be put in place for it.
Do they actually use the term "water tribe" in the movie?
@@Superphilipp No, the proper term is "Metkayina" I think.
It's a casualty of shitty script and pandering to masses, as usual
It still doesn't need to be that long tho. LOTR was justified in its length because it had so many moving parts. Avatar on the other hand is a really simple story.
@@kingsleycy3450 Oh, I am absolutely not saying it needed to be al long as it was (you could probably cut 30-40 minutes without losing any real substance). I'm just saying I get the impression that the next sequels are so jam packed with shit happening that 2 ended up as a weird overflow setup movie.
I agree with the contrivances bringing the characters together. You’re definitely right that it kinda makes the world seem smaller even though it’s supposed to expand. I’ve also talked about the death trap the kids set sullies kid up in. It was literally intentional and they somehow become friends?? After that.
I also didn’t understand why he felt like an outcast…. That is literally what the plot is driven by… sullies kid feeling like an outcast. He’s the chiefs son with a family who loves him. Instead of the outcast plot they should’ve used a “I cant live up to my chief dad and golden child brother. Let me earn their respect.” That plot/character motivation would make more sense as to why he chooses throughout the movie to keep doing more and more dangerous things
But Lo’ak was trying to earn his dad’s respect. Every time he tries to it just backfired. Because of his failure to live up to his father and brother, he feels like an outcast.
@@RansomPro imo that has nothing to do with being an outcast. That’s more like “crap I will never live up to expectations” and so that entire theme, what connects the (actual) outcast whale to Lo’ak is … honestly just the fact that he saved his life. The whole outcast thing is cliche and doesn’t really make much sense in the given circumstances in Lo’aks case
@@BROWNSMAGIC No, it is not. He does not feel like he belongs to the family = he feels like an outcast. It is really not that complicated.
He is factually, wrong so. The it is far less contrived. The characteras meet each other at the old battlefield a place both groups want to check out. They do not run in to each other at random at the forrest. They are in the same area to begin with and then they want to visit a specific side, for different reasons, which is still convenient but it is not random.
I also do not know what your second complaint is because what you want is what the movie does. The kid feels like an outcast because, differently to the other kids, he feels like he does not fully belong to the family because he does not live up to what his dad wants him to be.
@@bebo2629 …… if anything the big brother should’ve felt like the father isn’t what he wanted him to be as he wanted him to be responsible for the younger brother and keep him out of trouble and also not give in to his curious spirit. The eldest brother heeds his fathers warnings and understands that adventure, or living up to his fathers notoriety isn’t worth his or his families life. This is a lesson the little brother never learns.
The outcast thing is a reach for me because he is dearly loved and not rejected by literally anyone in the film (that is until his entire family is made an outcast with the water people)
Not being able to live up to the golden child because you haven’t internalized the worth of live safety and security is not the same as “being an outcast” being an outcast infers rejection… which he never received. He is loved dearly. He is a prince. He is not cast aside.
His brother loved him dearly and always played and fooled around with him. His mother loves him dearly and shows him many affections, his father loves him dearly BUT is hard on him. His sisters love him and look up to him, while they may poke fun.
Etc etc
I needed to see him rejected like what happens after his older brother dies. The disgust and sorrow Jake shows towards him then, that is the only time he is rejected in the film
It would’ve been better if Clone Quaritch didn’t have the original’s memories, and was rather a blank slate molded to believe he’s the “reincarnation” of the colonel. He could’ve had a character arc where he learns to end what is becoming a generational blood feud and goes from seeing Spider as his “brother” rather than a prodigal son. Maybe he sacrifices himself too in the end, but it would’ve been more interesting than what we got.
Clone Quaritch; even with his memories intact could’ve served as the alternate protagonist for the rest of the series. So many other franchises found success by grouping their audience into football teams. There could have been room to root for the humans in this film, but there isn’t and ultimately I feel this will sour the audience with each installment. Watching anthro creatures murder a bunch of humans we can’t relate to is going to jar the mind as this conflict escalates. Quaritch in particular; is in the most interesting situation in the film and has the shortest arc. It’s pathetic.
I'm sure you are better director than james cameron
@@groxiverde I am definitely not lmao but I appreciate the compliment
@@fletcherw32 I'm sure they're trying to set it up for something like that in later movies, otherwise there was no reason to give him the redeeming moment of saving Spider nor was there a reason to have him live.
@@groxiverde Nah, but he's a better writer clearly
Honestly I wouldn't have minded the whole movie being in 90% Navi language, because in overseas(I live in non-English speaking country) the whole movie is going to be 100% subtitled anyway even if they speak in English.
So, I really don't see the point in most of the movie being in English for convenience when to oversea audiences it's just going to be a transition from one subtitle to another.
(Especially, considering that Avatar franchise is a movie that probably made and makes more money from overseas countries)
the point is that English speaking audiences are the biggest market for the movie and having it all subtitled would turn off a lot of people from watching it because reading is hard I guess.
The point is that English speakers are stupid and can’t handle media that isn’t fully in English
@@bryanchu5379 are they? 30% of the 1 bil box office is the US domestic
Honestly it could just be me, but I think the movie being mostly in Navi would detract from the visuals, which are the main focus. It’d be distracting if I constantly had to look away from the scenery when that’s the main reason I’m there to see the movie.
@@brendansimkinsTrue, but personally subtitles really didn't make me detract from the visuals that much. Like Adum said, the ocean scene (which was my favorite part) has no dialogue, so I really didn't miss that much.
RIP James Horner one of my favorite composers ever, I highly recommend a beautiful piece of his called Casper’s Lullaby
Holy shit he was Casper
That theme pops into my head all the time. iirc he also did the music for An American Tail, and that's firmly ingrained in my memory too
I adore that Casper piece specifically. It's been with me for years. Also, "The Gift of Mortality" from Bicentennial Man is also one that gets me.
Without James Horner... :(
Oh my god thank you. The first minute is so good.
Really dumb that they apparently could clone the bad guy from the first movie, but not Jake's brother. You know, the guy they actually made an Navi clone of, but didn't put his memories in...
FUCK. I haven't seen anyone mention that before now, but that's a fantastic point unless the tech only started existing within the time frame of the first movie.
Because it was really expensive and the back up was only made because he was expected to die unlike the brother
Because they probably just did not have the memory back up.
Because plot convenience
My only guess explanation why they didn’t clone jakes brothers memory is they didn’t have the tech to do cloning.
It baffles me how little remembrance Horner gets since his passing. No one even remembers him and it’s such a shame because he was an insanely good composer.
adum thank christ you talked about the framerate because i thought i was losing my mind
Same here.
I thought I was just "losing" the 3D for those scenes, the stuttering was definitely distracting and couldn't put my finger on it until now.
You have the audacity to have an opinion that’s different than mine!
My frustration is that they have Weaver's avatar daughter and the mystery of who her father is and her influence over other creatures.
My thinking is they are setting up some sort of messiah complex with that character later down the line.
It’s definitely going to be like “Pandora God impregnated her and Weaver’s daughter is literally Jesus and can control all creatures and has superpowers to save the entire planet from being nuked and destroyed by a giant Earth Laser”
I was really confused because I didn't realize it was another "retcon". I was like wtf someone had sex with her empty avatar body after she died and it got pregnant??
The movie never even felt like it officially started, and i was constantly checking the time. I'm I huuuge fan of the first film as well so i really thought i was crazy because I was the only person in my family who was bored and disappointed.
Bored is surely didn't see AVATAR The Way of Water
I love reading subtitles. It sucks when care isn't taken to make sure they stay on screen long enough to be read, line up with the scene, etc.
A nitpick of the nitpick of the mech drinking scene: Her real head is the mechs chest, relatively speaking. To drink out of the cup, she can’t mimic lifting it to her own mouth, because that would translate into the mech lifting it to above where her head is. Instead she mimics lifting it to her own chest, which is where her real mouth is in relation to the mech. No interference necessary.
The interference is that the mech is (I'm assuming) reaching INTO the mech chest to put the coffee to her lips. If the mech is operating one to one how does she put the mech arm into the mech without punching her arm literally into her own chest. At least that's what the issue sounded like to me.
@@donovandelozier7156 That’s a worse nitpick I think. She’s not really that deep “inside” anything if you remember the design of it. Its less of a mech and more of a slender skeleton suit, basically just a set of lanky elongated arms and legs strapped to her. Imagine that it didn’t work the first time, and then she just tweaked the settings to increase the sensitivity of the arm movement a few percentage points to close the gap between her putting her hand to her chest and the mech putting its hand to her face.
There would be all kinds of movement retargeting going on in the control software anyway to account for the proportion differences between the rig and a human body anyway. I can even imagine the engineers calling it “coffee mode” and making it an option you can just tick during calibration.
@@AliasA1 you see remembering would require I'd have SEEN this movie, i was basing it off what the mechs looked like in the first one which... definitely weren't so skeletal as you are describing the mech in question.
@@donovandelozier7156 just for future reference, it is possible to refrain from discussing an obscure detail about a movie you haven’t watched in the first place.
@@AliasA1 just for future refrence we're commenting on a video, it isn't unreasonable to deduce the mechs in a sequel are like those in the first movie, and if you pay attention i made no definite assertion in my first comment, i made guesses that plainly leave the fact i could be incorrect as a viable possibility.
They brought back Stephen Lang's character because he was the only character anyone remembered from the first movie, and even then most people probably couldn't name his character, they'd just describe him as "the Starship Trooper guy."
Admit it, none of you remembered his name was Quaritch.
Hey, that's not true.
People remembered him as the "You're not in Kansas anymore" guy and nothing else. He even said the thing in this movie too.
I, at one point, struggled to remember Jake's name before I went to go see the movie with my family. I just called him the main character when I couldn't lmao.
Colonel Miles Quraticth I remember him he was very memorable villain 2 dimensional in first one but gave more depth in second.
the channel sideways did a great deep dive on the composition in the first film. with my limited musical knowledge it seems like James Cameron had no idea what he actually wanted for the soundtrack and most of it was done by the composer's own intuition. If true I cant imagine having to be a secondary composer following that for the next film.
Franglen nailed it though
While I felt very similarly, they did technically address the tribe chief’s son and his friends leaving Jake’s kid to die. Jake’s family and the chief confront them together and Jake’s son jumps in to take the blame for it all being his idea, thus earning chief’s son’s trust or whatever. It says a lot that the only name I came out of this remembering is Jake but they did try to address it.
They addressed it as if it was a lil prank, not attempted murder.
@@7Z7A7C7K7 My argument is only that it was addressed which is contrary to what was said in this video. I agree that it wasn’t addressed appropriately.
@@happybirthdaypaulie8584 I think when Adum says “it wasn’t addressed” he meant that it wasn’t addressed with the seriousness that an attempted murder should’ve been addressed with. The fact that the characters were so easy on the chief’s son means it basically could’ve gone unaddressed.
@@happybirthdaypaulie8584 hardly
I think Adam’s mistake is thinking that any other character in the film saw this as attempted murder aside from Lo’ak. The metkayinan boys didn’t go there thinking a pandoran shark was gonna take a bite out of him, they just wanted to ditch him in unfamiliar territory.
To everyone else he was just lost for a few hours out on the reef. The reprimand from both pairs of parents was 100% appropriate given how in the dark they were.
The whole scenario was also designed to be another stepping stone to Lo’ak getting along with the chief’s children AS WELL AS pissing off the chief when he bonds with Payakan.
really feels uncreative that they're gonna have 5 of them, they say part of Avatar 4 has already been shot before the second one was even out and Stephen Lang who was the bad guy in the first is gonna be the same bad guy in all of them
Hmm, well, as long as the story is consistent, then honestly, there probably isn't too much wrong with that, but the same villain throughout the sequel sounds boring to me.
@@nekonomicon2983 Just you wait, they'll give him a redemption arch in the last one. He'll be a good dad and Sully's best friend, mark may words.
You've gotta be joking about the bad guy
@@danieldsantiagorodriguez4955 Legit thought that's the direction they might have been going towards around the time he gets the bird, forgetting about the sequels and assuming it'd be the ending to Avatar 2.
@@danieldsantiagorodriguez4955 I really like Steven lane but shit that sounds terrible
They wouldn't have to learn a whole new language. They would just have to learn the phonetic sounds of the language as written in the script.This is a cartoon where they could endlessly re-record the dialogue. They could have the actors speak English and then dubb the lines later even.
It’s not this simple though…they’re using actual performance capture. The animation is synced and recorded with the vocal performance, including the movement of the lips.
Overdubbing just the audio would mean them having to completely animate the mouths by hand, which would not only be grueling, but probably would be noticeable to the audience.
@@bass-tones this. The characters are cg but not their actions
Yeah that’s also a massive waste of time and money for something that really isn’t that big of a deal
It's rare that a youtube video title excites me as much as this one did.
I couldn't click fast enough
I'm waiting for the next lion King video but this comes close second
There’s always a bigger fish
I thought it was weird how they brought back Weaver”s character too. It’s like they just wanted all of original cast instead of coming up with new characters and not just children
The God of the planet is real and was explicitly stated as such by her character
I hated that the first movie was all about conservatism, and preserving the land and the native species. In this movie there’s a scene with a wall of fire destroying thousands of acres of forest. No one cares. All Jake cares about is his family. He was made leader of the tribe, and he just says fuck off to the tribe he swore to protect, he’s gotta save my 4 kids. He went full American dad AFTER saying fuck off to humans, earth and inherited all these new customs. And they just throw that by the wayside to start a nuclear family.
29:06 imagining avatar redubbed completely with stock sound effects is likely a more fun experience than watching avatar
ed edd and eddy present : avatar
When they ride the fish it just sounds like the Minecraft fishing bobber sound effect which is probably already a stock sound effect.
imagine watching something serious for once outside of yms recommending it to you
The burning of the first water village didnt happen until well after the daughter had the medical problems. The reason the soldiers knew jake was in one of the tribes was because the helicopter used to treat the daughter was spotted by the military and then they decided to investigate the islands. I still agree there isnt much scale. The only scale we get is them constantly saying that there are multiple water tribes and they only show one other tribe
They show three
They say there are hundreds of villages, and that they know he is hiding in one of them. That be like saying you know your target is hiding in a village in south vietnam, and you'll have to look through each one. I use the vietnam reference because Quaritch literally says "burn the hooches" soooo...
the reason why they brought stephen lang back is the same reason why rings of power felt the need to make galadriel the show's protagonist and sauron the show's antagonist, and include gandalf in the story: the marvel-ization of everything. writers and producers legitimately believe at this point that if you create a sequel or prequel to an IP, audiences will not be interested or understand the film/show UNLESS they recognize characters from a previous installment. it is extremely patronizing and boring.
you realise that that was always the plan? JC has had this shit planned out for a very long time, and the original Avatar came out during a time where there was only about 2 movies in the MCU
@@defenderofminorities3056 god, if it was really always the plan to have the same villain throughout, they shouldn't have killed him off. The resurrection through memory chip plot device was so bad. Also, I always liked the coronel's death in the first film, it was satisfying enough (his rage and vengeance killed him, then Neytiri was immediately like whatevs, gotta save mahjake)
My main issue with the movie is that there was no ticking clock to give the events in the story a sense of urgency. The humans could've expanded their operation on Pandora, obliterated the forest tribes and then set their eyes on the water tribe as their next target. Jake could've used his intel on the inside to discover how long they would take to get there and set out on a quest to prepare them for war before its too late. The water tribe could've worshiped their own God instead of Eiwa, some kind of sea god or something, thus expanding the worldview of both tribes as they learn more about each other on their race against time to defeat the humans. That way they can keep in all the stuff about identity and self-discovery but have it fit in with everything else.
Dude glad to see someone who had low expectations for the movie and didn't like a lot of things about the movie.
I watched the movie in IMAX...And I was losing my mind because there were parts of the film where I felt like someone sat on the fast forward X3 button.
My eyes melted at the sudden jump in speed.
Also love how Pandora is the most harmless planet ever. The only two instances where there are hostile creatures is the leather panthera thing that attacks Sully on the first movie (Stephen Lang's character goes near them on the sequel and they are friendly???) and the big fish that almost makes the kid drown. Like why would you make this borefest of a planet on purpose????????
@@the.bog. The point is its boring nonetheless.
They literally explained multiple times why the animals don’t attack Na’vi, lol.
@@the.bog. But still. Apart from the unbreathable air and 2 hostile species i think humans can be fine in that planet
@@the.bog. despite humans living alongside our nature for 'eons', most aren't friendly. But we did pull off domesticating several of them.
@@SpaRK5918 The animals literally killed hundred of humans in the first film? Are you an npc? Can you watch the films and think before spreading hate about the movie?
The thing is, Simon Franglen worked with Horner on Titanic and Avatar, he was responsible for a lot of electronics and ethnic instruments instrumentation, so he was largely responsible for the sound of the first Avatar. He did a good job on the second one.
Sideways made a video about the soundtrack of the first movie and how James Cameron hired these World music experts to construct a sound that would be a combination of the different music from around the world but still feel alien. James Cameron upon hearing their proposition said that it sounded too alien and in the end only at 5 points in the soundtrack can you hear the stuff world music stuff they came up with. You should watch the video by Sideways it's really good.
Oh my god I'm so happy someone noticed the framerate. I wish the whole movie was 48fps. I really liked the scenes that were high framerate but it always felt it was lagging when it went back to 24 and was super distracting. And holy shit the coffee. I cracked up in the theater at that.
Had the same myself. Turns out there’s cinema using projectors that can’t run such high frame rate movies. In shorter terms, the projectors are outdated. My first viewing, saw it in realD 3D and the frame rate issue was all over the place. Saw it a second time in true imax 3d and it was perfect
Likewise! Didn't watch it in 3D so the issue was even more evident. Gave the film a horrible blur effect whenever it would differ from the two. Makes me concerned for the home release as..
1) will they stick with 1 framerate in 2D seeing as 3D is dead tech in this day and age (99% of people don't have 3D TV's anymore).
2) James Cameron is notorious for butchering his already established cuts.(Terminator 2 4K comes to mind).
One tiny correction of something you said, Adam: The military guy wasn't on the other Sea Tribe's island at the same time as Jake's daughter was seizing. She had her seizure FIRST, and THEN the dumbass humans led military guy to the sea tribes by helicoptering med supplies over to them WITHOUT somehow knowing that their vehicle was being tracked.
This is just bad for other reasons, though, and it should be pointed out that the human medical intervention accomplished literally nothing, and the family needed to resort to the sea tribe's brand of witch doctory to save the child's life. Meaning literally the only service to the plot it provided was leading the military guy to their approximate location.
Stupid. But stupid for different reasons.
But what different does it make storywise if the doctor was successfull? Real doctors sometimes can sometimes not help. I do not see how that is dumb.
Many of the other plot holes and conventions Adam mentions, like the shark attack being ignored or the people meeting randomly in the jungle, are also just factually wrong.
So they completely gave up the unobtanium plot line? Wow it's basically an admission that the first one's story was bad
Nah, they still use unobtainium but now they’re on a mission to terraform pandora so it’s not as essential.
It was too hard so the second expedition was focused on a much easier resource
You mean Space Whale Brain Juice? The resource that’s somehow more convoluted then Unobtanium? Because it can stop human aging?
@@AdamWielgosz nether is convoluted. One is a room temperature super conductor and the other stops aging
Adum, it was an honor having you at my theater today. Your taste in movies has influenced me tremendously so thank you for coming back and talking after the show! It really meant the world to me. 10/10 would meet again.
I mean the entire film “The Passion of the Christ” was in Arabic. Doing the “it’s like hearing English” bit is a cop out.
I couldn't understand why Jermaine Clement was in this movie nor did I appreciate his character but I'm happy he's getting that avatar money
HE WAS??
I completely skipped over the fact that Jake knew Navi so well that it became English. I just thought everyone knew eng. and was speaking it throughout the movie since it'd be virtually impossible to differentiate between the characters that knew/were speaking Navi and the characters that didn't. That was a burning question in the back of my mind.
To be honest, the entire movie just had some crappy side plot and then the rest was an excuse to show the ocean, sea creatures and "family". Jake and Neytiri should've been much more relevant, and the siblings hardly had any character development other than the younger brother. You know it's bad when I don't cry at a father-son death scene.
Also, I love how Spider saves the general and then returns to his friends like nothing happened. No mention of his dumbass decision, just hugs and head rubs like wtf.
To be honest, I think a different expedition to pandora with different explorers coming to help make amends with the tribes, and then trying to protect them would've been more compelling. Also not only visiting the water tribe, but also any other tribes that took residence on the planet. Taking what the science dude said at the end of the movie "We'll be back" or whatever the fuck into consideration, maybe use him as the planner for a large-scale deforestation project or something, and bring a new character in rather than the general we already had the pleasure of killing in the first movie.
It's obvious that Spider, as bad of an actor as he is, already set up a plot for a 3rd movie when they could be doing something so much more than just hyper-focusing on the general.
I also saw some other comments bringing up this point: Why are all the creatures so amicable when it's a huge ass planet?
If they really wanted to show the ocean, they would've added more threats, drowning, and upscale monsters lurking down below. Instead, we spend most of our time on shallow waters, oftentimes out of the water and just looking in at the characters jumping around. It's rather boring, to say the least.
Is it like a lord of the rings thing where everyone is spreading English (except for the times they aren’t) but it’s basically just translated for our consumption?
Huh. Maybe it’s like Spiders decision will create conflict within himself and the Sully’s in the later movies??🤔
@@MnemonicHeadTrip except in TLOR english is just the Common Language. When they speak in tongues they're speaking the language, but when they switch to english it's because it's literally English - translated, yes - but the English version of the Common Language.
In Avatar the Na'Vi language is one thing, and English is another, yet what Sully hears is "Na'Vi language i'm so used to hear i just hear it as english" while Quaritch and the gang speak "English because we're english", creating a weird paradox of languages that overlap each other
@@Dubstone yeah I can see where the issue lies
@@Dubstone Doesn't help when you sometimes just hear Na'Vi for some reason lmao
I heard the funniest description of this film, which is Avatar again with more water and even less story.
I actually went into the movie without watching any trailers so when the general came back in an avatar body I thought it was Jake’s dead brother (Because he also looks identical to Jake imo) and I thought that would have been an interesting idea.
Yeah but didn’t they say his brother was basically like all the other nice scientist people we see? He wouldn’t have been a very interesting character he probably would’ve just joined Jake.
@@mdandrews Yeah I didn’t really think much past the idea, haha.
You just made me think that introducing reincarnation in this universe retcons the plot of the first movie to be stupid.
Jake Sully only got brought to Pandora because the avatar body was made for his twin brother and needs a genetic match to control. But the operation never thought to "backup" the brains of it's operators and instead shipped a marine from home to Pandora.
@@locopyro13 I’m assuming this movie just takes place comparatively farther into Earth’s future. At the start of the movie, the soldiers come back with way more advanced technology as Earth is being destroyed and is entering panic mode. I think the reasoning behind not cloning the brother lies somewhere between it taking so long to travel between planets, the clone technology being highly expensive for a standard marine vs a general, and the direness of the mission to colonize Pandora changing between the two movies.
In the first movie, they just want to mine for rare minerals. This one , the Earth is looking to move in humans as our planet dies. The use of resources is gonna be prioritized waaaaaay differently even if the tech existed back when Jake was first selected to go to Pandora.
@@_indigo_inked your second point is actually my other gripe with the movie. The first one's world building makes Pandora seem like one of dozens of worlds that humanity has presence on, but just happened to have a rare resource (and why the operation is cautiously in nature and not run by a world organization but a corporation). Now it has become the only viable world that is humanity's last hope and where we are colonizing to for to.
Really shrink down the universe the first one built up
Considering there was 4 writers on this, maybe each writer had a kidnapping plot point and instead of choosing one, they just put all of them together in the movie
The story was a vehicle for the establishing shots, but the establishing shots were a background for the atrocities.
The ONE thing I wanted to see to give variety to Pandora was an Evil Na'vi.
I've said it many times that having a Na'vi warlord or something who reused the leftover human weapons would have been the best thing for the "franchise".
But the active refusal to show any flaws to the Na'vi race outside of probably ignorance is just... lame.
Na'vi good, humans bad.
people often forget that most conquests of indigenous people involved turning the smaller and often victimized tribes against the larger and more brutal dominant tribe.
the fact that the concept is never even considered is lowkey despicable.
I mean the seafolk na'vi is quite "racist" by definition, so
@@alfonshedstrom9859 they’re distrust and racism towards the land Navi tribe doesn’t amount to anything and is discarded halfway through the movie.
Didn’t see this movie but from what I’m seeing it’s because it’s still a racist movie. The Navi are a just another “noble savage” archetype blued up and are not flattering to natives at all. It’s extremely patronizing, especially since it’s a white savior story. But in my opinion I think because of the setup of the world nothing is going to really be a good enough change because the natives were made into literal nonhumans.
For me the silliest thing of all is Neytiri and their children all collectively agreed upon using Jake’s surname 😂
Like, there’s so many layers to it. As far as we know, none the other Na’vis have surnames, it’s not in their culture. They have unique names and are mostly differentiated by titles. But no no big boy needs his little batch to be named after him. It surprises me all his kids have Na’vi names and at least one wasn’t named I dunno Caleb or something.
Edit: I missed the very beginning so I don’t know how Spider’s name came to be? Did Jake name him? Please someone enlighten me. And someone tell me I’m not the only one put off by the surname thing lmao
I felt the same way lol
He's a human, whats so hard to understand that he wants to keep some of his customs?
The film definitely had flaws and things that annoyed me (ditching the Navi language being a big one) but it was a fun watch and a great visual experience (saw it in imax 3D).
It’s such a white boys wet dream idk how you could enjoy it at all. It’s all about how white people are better at everything. Better at being one with nature, better at leading, and even better at being indigenous than the actual indigenous.
Unironically? Hakf of it
In the first action sequence, I’m convinced they reused 2 shots from the first movie, one of Jake screaming, and one of Natyri doing a battle cry. You had 13 years to make this, and you’re recycling assets? Ok
The look completely different than they do in the first film, so I'm not sure how you could think that? Like Jake has completely different hair and looks insanely different? I think your problem might be "I can tell any of the blue guys apart."
I noticed it too…they looked very similar to the first film.
@@LunatheMoonDragon I meant they reused the old animation and vocal takes with the new character models.
I'm a huge Avatar fan in general but I totally understand people's issue with it.
I really hate how Avatar is making boatloads of money (pun intended) when Puss in Boots 2, a genuinely spectacular movie, is getting shoved under the rug and was thrown next to it by Dreamworks, knowing damn well that they weren't going to compete with an Avatar movie
We sick of Shrek sequels perhaps Puss in boots was woke.
@@RobertK1993 oh no not the stupid woketards, dont u dare call the movie woke
They didn't default to speaking English because it was too difficult to teach the actors, damn that's a dumb thing to say. Some people don't like reading subtitles so they made their billion-dollar movie in English. That is an incredibly obvious decision to make
Sigourney Weavers character was supposed to be 14 yet she sounded 50. That distracted me the entire time.
I sort of wanted to watch the movie for the visual spectacle of it as well. When I went, I realized I had forgotten my glasses just before the movie started. So I was watching a kinda blurry movie the whole time lol
That sort of happened when I went to see The Last Airbender in 3D, only it wasn't because I forgot my glasses, it's because 1: they didn't film it for 3D and did that sucky conversion method most "3D" films were doing at the time, and 2: the last forty minutes are dark already but were absolutely dark as shit with those glasses on. I thought M. Night brought in those AVP: Requiem hacks to guest direct the last act or something
So you just sat there watching blurry blobs the whole time instead of leaving and trying to get your money back?
I feel your pain, as a fellow near-sighted fella.
@@rootfish2671 It was still a visual spectacle. Just in its own abstract way.
graphics do not make a good movie
It's comical how much world building went into the original avatar all for basically Pocahontas on an alien planet. Like they made their own language, they went out their way to try and create an alien style of music (unlike a conlang this waas unprecedented, and though I'm not quite sure they achieved their aim I like what came out of it). Though the franchise isn't my cup of tea it's perfect for a theme park
I like jemaine clement bit yea it was very weird and distracting having him there but what was more distracting was that he was doing a very bad American accent for literally no reason even his captain had kind of a new Zealand accent so idk why he had to do an American one
And his lines, Jesus Christ.
"Who's got the harpoon now?!" and "I thought you were supposed to be the smart one?"
So much cringe.
@@KIager LOL that was so corny and did he die? They never showed him after that
Flight of the Conchords was never funny. New Zealand's version of "Look how little I'm trying, isn't that hilarious?" dogshit Workaholics-style comedy. Their songs were ok, musically speaking. But dear god. You ever seen them actually have to be funny around people? Fuckin oof. Yeah I know you weren't talking about this. I don't care. I've been holding this comment in for 10 years. You're welcome.
@@screwgoogle4993 I know what you're talking about but I didn't watch that show I mostly like him for his other work on things like what we do in the shadows, Legion, even Moana and rick and morty
@@screwgoogle4993 The only funny part of that show was the manager from what i remember.
I think what you said about Na'vi language is a valid perspective, but honestly that's how I would show language comprehension for a character who you're going to spend 90% of the movie with. Like if I was making an anime and the main character didn't speak Japanese and met some people who did I would have it in the Japanese dub be that the Japanese-speaking character speak in English or something like that. The bigger problem is that we so rarely have to think about the language barrier, the evil guy has the kid act as an interpreter for that one scene where they attack the village to ask where Jake Sully is; but other than that 99% of the is monosyllabic even though there are two languages. The only character who regularly speaks both is Jake Sully speaking to the Colonel during the ending; although, why does Jake Sully still speak flawless perfect English after 20 years only being around Na'vi speakers and the scientists? He's not just a little rusty at all? Would have been actually kinda cool if Jake had developed a bit of an accent when he was speaking English.
I wouldn't take it as a given that Jake has never had to speak English given that the scientists spent a lot of time teaching the navi English in order to better connect with them, so this practice likely continued if only so that the navi could help the scientists do their research.
If anything it's conspicuous that Jake's kids aren't established as having any comprehension of English given that Neytiri speaks it as well, so both of them would have been able to teach it to their children together. It doesn't have any obvious practical utility besides spending time with the scientists and maybe understanding the technology they have with them a little better, but I'd explain this by saying that the kids actually expressed curiosity at some of the words their father would use that obviously weren't Navi and decided that they wanted to learn English for the hell of it; because they see it as a way to be closer to their parents, but also for the same reason that people in general suddenly find the compulsion to learn other languages. It can be very rewarding in of itself.
One character who does definitely know English is Kiri because she assimilated all of Graces recordings and read all her research.
Ironically, the terrible actor who plays Jake Sully has a really hard time maintaining a consistent American accent anyway, vacillating between british-ish, American and Australian constantly.
nobody invented japanese so they would have an interesting constructed language to use in their movie series.
@@XcaptainXobliviousX nobod inventee japones
@@makeitthrough_ yes, that is literally what i just said. thank you for repeating what i literally just said.
I do agree, the actual hunting part of the movie was lacking. I thought Jake was going to travel alone once they found out they are after him and not his tribe and it would have been nice to see him travel part of Pandora we haven’t seen yet and towards the end he finds the sea people and learns their culture the same why the movie already did. Now that I think about it, the only two characters I cared about the most was Jake and his wife 😂 And honestly I thought Zoe did a good job selling the savagery of the Navi.
Whoa savagery? We’re introducing the concept of savagery to the Native American proxy? 😭🤦🏽♂️
@@stardoogalaxie9314 I guess so 🤷🏽 but to be honest if we try to compare these people to Native America then we are just neutering complexity to that culture with blue tailed aliens which was made up by a white man and I’d rather not do that. So I wouldn’t go that far. Compare it shallowly sure but don’t make it a political. So tired of talking about the politics of a movie.
@@stardoogalaxie9314
I mean
We did scalp people
If they were historically accurate proxies they would also sacrifice children, and their #1 cause of death (by far) would be spear murder by other Navi.
My question is why they be making all the females so fine???? Also they allowed a FUCKING PREGNANT WOMEN TO GO WITH THEM INTO COMBAT!!! How stupid
It was a strong character bonding moment when the kid didn't tell the tribesman they tried killing him. I think it just told me that Navi don't interact with normal human reactions. The son knew taking the fall would be his way of earning acceptance into the tribe.
There’s a few complaints I have about this. First the motivations of the plot. This isn’t just a Revenge story, as clearly stated by Quaritch and the general. Jake Sully is the leader of the Na’vi insurrection, the Daruk makto, the first of the naavi to actually stand up to the army, so basically like a terrorist in the eyes of the Us military. It would make sense for the colonel and his best troops to come back as a clone with all the memories of Jake Sully’s greatest threats from the first movie and assemble a commando strike team to find and kill anyone in connection to Jake Sully, like his children. Bringing Quaritch back can also serve as an effective scare tactic to Jake and his Naavi supporters that The Sky people will just come back stronger every time. Or at least use them as leverage. Since they were trying to find any trace of Jakes location, a logical first place would be the last sighted location of Jake from the sky people. And given the established innate curiosity of Jake’s kids would logically lead them to the great no no zone established by their parents. This makes their “bumping into eachother” a viable scenario.
Just watched the movie today; my impression was it was just the first Avatar. But the pieces were fractured and moved around.
I thought it was much better than the first one honestly but I haven't watched it in a long time
@@jazzyjefffogel I like the aesthetic of the ocean a lot more. It's more alien and otherworldly. When I saw the opening of the movie, I thought the humans would go full "exterminatus" on the forest. Scorch the forests and nuke the area. And after the 1 year later we cut to them in the sea. But no. That would have made way more sense. The first hour was very not great.
It's Avatar 1 but worse and with whales
Nah it has a bit of a teen movie sprinkled in
Take the first Avatar, make it wet, and add in some baffling evolutionary implications