LOGISKE LINJER - NRK
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Warne Marsh med studenter på Trondheim Musikkonservatorium 1984.
Med: Warne Marsh, Jon Pål Inderberg, Torgrim Sollid, Terje Bjørklund, Bjørn Kjellemyr, Karl Håkon Waadeland, Øystein Trollås, Stein Helge Solstad, Vigleik Storaas, Odd Magne Gridseth, Tor Haugerud.
Regi: Jan Horne, NRK.
Warne Marsh was an incredible IMPROVISER, and when you really examine the history of jazz very closely and (hopefully) refine your concept of improvising, you eventually notice how rare that truly is. THIS is precisely why Marsh remains so underrated.
Astonishing from Warne Marsh. It’s difficult. It’s important. It shocks some students who are already good players. Warne Marsh. Among the greatest improvisers in modern musics.
This whole video is so incredible, Warne was one of the greats and at the top of his game
This film is a vitally important document of Warne's playing and teaching, as it shows him (in 1984) on top form with both near the end of his life (he died in December 1987). It’s also well recorded and filmed (and at over 35 minutes long, not just a clip). I wonder if there is a longer, perhaps uncut, version of the film. In any case, many thanks to the provider(s) who have given us a treasure of information, insight and music.
His improvising is at its height and in teaching, he discusses a variety of topics about developing fundamental musicianship for individuals (including the role of singing, which he demonstrates) and within a band, as well as band dynamics and ‘survival’ issues for student and pro improviser musicians.
The tunes performed are, in order…
1. 317 East 32nd Street (at 1:15) - Lennie Tristano's line over the structure of the standard Out of Nowhere
2. I'll Remember April (at 4:25)
3. What Is This Thing Called Love? (at 12:00)
4. High on You - an obscure but pleasant tune by Al Cohn (at 22:05)
5. All About You - Tristano's line over How About You (at 30:09)
Whilst for What Is This Thing Called Love the standard melody is used, the tune has more than one famous ‘line’ composed over its chord structure. Two that Warne favored in particular are ''Subconscious-lee'', by his Tristano related colleague Lee Konitz, and ''Hot House'', by the bop pianist Tadd Dameron.
Aside from presenting Warne’s wisdom, the film also conveys his sense of humor and wit. It also shows what lessons were often very much like with him. He even plays the piano in the film (as he often did in lessons, if not his horn too), both teaching and exploring the tune Easy Living.
Finally, here below is a translation of the various voice-overs by his Norwegian students [with my notes or clarifications in square brackets] …
At 3:48: For us Norwegian musicians, to play with Warne Marsh is a constant learning process.
At 4:11: Warne Marsh is not only a fantastic musician, but an equally good teacher. He doesn’t teach group classes that often, but at Trondelag Conservatoire he was very pleased with the Norwegian students. He wanted to play with them too, and this in turn gives him a lot of information about what he needs to teach them.
At 12:10: Warne came to NYC in 1947-48. He hadn’t at all decided to be a musician, but then he met Lennie Tristano and became his student. Lennie’s students were very influenced by his way of thinking, but at the same time, he gave them a large degree of personal freedom. What one needs to learn is the foundations, and after that, it’s each musician’s own choice what they want to do.
At 17:28: There has been an idea here in Norway that you can’t learn how to play jazz. In a way that’s right, but in another way, it’s nonsense. It’s like saying that you can’t learn how to become a carpenter etc. To be able to do anything, one needs a foundation in the subject, and these American musicians, particularly the older ones, are experts in their subject. They know their chords, their melodies, their rhythms, and it is very important that this is taught.
At 21:19: Bebop was very much built up around soloists and their [featured] exposure, and in the beginning of the 1950s, there was more and more of that. Instead of that, a band should play together on an equal level. The level of quality in playing together, that’s where there is still work to do. [This comment derives from one of Warne's principal ideas and vision for the evolution of jazz and music generally, which Warne explains from 24:10. Some may, understandably, be troubled by a couple of his statements in the film, since they appear as isolated clips, out of context, and thus are unlikely to be connected to his complete vision and train of thought. This may particularly be the case when he says, from 20:50, that it's been thirty years (before the date of this film, i.e. since the mid-1950s, when Bird died) since there's been any major development in jazz..."nothing's happened", and from 21:50, that no one has surpassed what Bird, Bud and Fats did. However, this apparent conceit disappears when those statements are connected to his vision for where the next major development will/must come from, which is, namely, relatively equivalent training and fluency of everyone in a band with rhythm, polyrhythms and meter and polymeter (and of course scales, harmony and polytonality).]
At 23:25: What’s most exciting for me is that, at its best, this type of jazz is totally improvised. A band starts with an agreed foundation - tempo, time signature, a set of chords and a melody - and based on that, anything can happen, really. The dream is that a band can walk onto the stage and improvise form, harmony, rhythm and meter, and that this becomes just as good as what a composer does on paper.
At 26:23: One thing is studying harmony and chord progressions, which should lead to total freedom in relation to these. A very different side of this, that Lennie Tristano was very concerned with, was rhythmic [and metric] freedom [within 4/4].
At 27:14: And therefore, he trained his students consistently in what we call polyrhythms, to think [feel/recognize, hear/recognize and imagine/improvise] in several rhythms at once [while keeping track of where one is in 4/4 and the tune]. Then, one would be able to take a melodic phrase and start it anywhere in the bar. There is a whole system for [learning and] practicing this. [I would dispute this last sentence to some degree. In my lessons with Warne, simple examples were presented of polyrhythmic and polymetric materials to be learned within a four-bar structure and a tonal/scalar context, but not 'a whole system', such as an order or fixed curriculum with/in which to learn the materials. Nevertheless, one can be imagined/developed. ;)]
At 27:40: As we can see, it [developing rhythmic and metric fluency within 4/4] gives a base for rhythmic [and metric] improvisation… one that is just as big as what we have in harmonic improvisation. [Likely bigger, lol!]
Thanks a lot for the translation ! 🙏🙏🙏
@@laTotomate You're welcome! ;)
Amazing document. maybe my students will believe me more after watching this... I studied with Lee, he also started me on basics, although I already played for 10 or so years...
lenabloch I love his tone...so full.
That was awesome. I can't believe I've never seen this before. Thank you very much!!
Warne March great modern jazz artist love it.
Wonderful example of the master improviser teaching the basics of music in a group setting. Thanks for posting
If anyone is wondering what happens at 13:52 I think the band goes to the bridge early (they hit the bridge where the top of the form should be). Warne hears it and follows them - great playing and listening!
A marvelous document.
I lived across the street from 317 East 32nd Street.... grew up there back I. the day..from 1944 to 1966...
I lived on 35th and walked over there one night and NYU hospital had built new buildings over the old ones. : (
wonderful!!! thanks Torstein :)
Thanks so much for posting!
Wow!
Thank you very much Torstein
2:40 whoa that phrase...
Warne at the height of his powers, imho...
THANK.YOU.
Those students were A++
When I studied with him I believe he played a Dukoff 8 or 9
You may be right but it was a Hollywood model, a real old one so I don’t think it would be that open. Very few mouthpieces were very open back then.
The baritone player has a really nice sound, warm and resonant. I don't like a baritone sound that is very bright for jazz, or so dark it loses resonance.
Flight takes off at 13:14
What is the first tune?? A takeoff on Out of Nowhere?
then, I'll Remember April?
Then, Hot House?
Just out of nowhere. It's a line written by Lennie Tristano which they use as the melody.
5:05 to 5:24 pure beauty
Cool
does anyone notice if warne is playing a link? looks like a ny tone master
You’re everywhere
Warne looks to be playing a Dukoff Hollywood here, similar to the piece Dexter used with his Conn.
oszmazing
C'est pas vraiment le genre "rieur", W.Marsh.
He's not exactly the "laughing" type, W. Marsh.
Et alors?
Warne Marsh has a bottled-up sound, like a small creature gasping for air. My ears do not like what I hear.