They lied to you about pocket screw joinery.
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- I make a case for using pocket screws for cabinets and furniture.
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
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-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
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-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
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*Links related to this video:*
-Pocket screw tips: ua-cam.com/video/RbUNKbjnjHY/v-deo.html
-Review of Castle 110 portable machine: ua-cam.com/video/Z9-jnLfsR50/v-deo.html
-Review of Castle TSM-12 benchtop machine: ua-cam.com/video/6PXPHiHIEfY/v-deo.html
-More videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/
-Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/
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★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
Castle Pocket Hole Machines castleusa.com/
*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)
when i broke my ankle they put a screw in it. i told the surgeon he was an amateur and the only appropriate joint was blind dovetail.
I have recently adopted a new mantra with my projects... "happy is perfect" meaning if I'm happy with the results then it's close enough to perfect.
If pocket holes are wrong I don't want to be right 😂😂
Did I catch a lonely island remix there? Lol
Lol😂
Hi this is Kerry Lyons in Knoxville, TN I have been watching you for years and want you to know I think your wonderful. I'm 74 and wish they'd had internet when I was younger. But ! that's the way life goes. I don't subscribe or anything like that but, I want you to know I will keep watching you as long as I'm around. Mainly because I can always say "So that's how real carpenters and craftsmen do that ! " I can't do the work anymore but I can be amazed and thrilled to watch a young man with so much knowledge do what I can't. One more thing - I absolutely love all your tool collection.
My husband wasn't thrilled with the idea of pocket screws until I asked him to do a specific project recently. I needed very strong shelving systems installed in a full wall of very weak cabinets. The walls of the cabinets were simply too thin and flimsy to support a shelving system. (Yeah, I bought cheap. But they sure are pretty and the busy man didn't have to build them.)
For the first time, he dug out the pocket screw jig that he'd been ignoring for a few years to get to work building a strong shelving system (with sides) inside of existing cabinets. Basically he had to build independent shelves inside of the boxes.
This was the easiest, simplest project he's ever done. He finished with everything within a few hours. Zero hang ups. The whole thing came together without one hiccup.
He was grinning by the time he was done and I swear he looked at that little jig with a bit of respect. I might get my custom master bathroom cabinets sooner rather than later with his new little blue toy. lol!
The gatekeeping in the woodworking community can be a little intimidating and sometimes toxic to newbies and diy-ers. Thank you for videos such as this that are really welcoming 👍🏼
As a novice woodworker the “craft” types of joinery are just beyond my skill level now, or just take too much time at this juncture. Pocket screws allow me to build things. I’ll learn the crafty methods but will never forget that pocket screws allowed me to start in this hobby snd feel a sense of accomplishment. Thanks James…you keep on preaching!
Congratulations to you!
Decades of working in the woodshop is never going to make me feel superior.
I'm definitely of a mind to welcome and encourage anyone using whatever method.
There's a satisfaction to designing and constructing useful objects.
The important thing for me is that you find it enjoyable.
Hope you continue, with whatever skill set you find comfortable. 👍
Welcome and you'll get it! I am still sorta in the novice stage after 3 years, but pocket holes helped me even get there. Keep at it!
True words.
You make a great point about time. Most people are trying woodworking as a part time hobby. The fact is, they're lucky if they have a full weekend to devote to a project. If something speeds up the process, they're more likely to start in the first place.
Over the last few years I've been seeing MANY young people take their first tentative steps into woodworking because of pocket screws. I really grin when I see young ladies start out with a simple pocket screwed shelf and watch them building legit cabinets, professional-level drawers, and many other things just a few years later.
If there's a tool or technique that brings more people into the craft, I'm all for it. Everyone needs to start somewhere.
Another novice here. I guarantee you that my pocket hole joinery plus glue is stronger than any mortise and tenon I could hack together at this point.
He's exactly right about one thing. I live in a small one bedroom apartment. I don't have a garage or basement for a workshop. I built a high chair for my grandson in Cherry, using biscuits and pocket screws. It's lasted through 2 kids, and my son and his wife still treasure it.
The best thing that ever happened to me in regards to woodworking was repairing a small 100+ year old table that a family member had fallen on.
I do not know if this was a factory produced piece or a one off that someone built.
The skirt and legs used saddle and tenon joinery but the saddle was cut with a circular blade from the top down and the tenon was very roughly rounded on the bottom edge to fit.
The skirt shoulders were large enough to hide anything that you would not want to be seen.
A single nail was installed from the back side through the tenon to reinforce the joint.
The top was a glue up and the joints were failing mostly from water damage.
I had planned to rip the top on the joint lines and do a new glue up.
I discovered none of the boards had parallel edges, that was very interesting to me since I just assumed flat and square on all pieces was a given, but apparently they just jointed each edge, glued them together, and sorta squared the top afterwards.
Since the joints were failing I finessed them the rest of the way, jointed the edges on the jointer, and glued the top back together, since the top had a profiled edge I didn't check square.
The drawer featured half blind dovetail joinery at the front and a small single nail was driven in from the bottom to assure the joint didn't separate to the sides.
All this was glued together with what I presume to be hide glue which had definitely seen better days.
In spite of everything this little table was still standing proud until it got smashed.
Since there was a lot of structural damage I used floating tenons and epoxy to fix the tenons that were broken and Tite Bond everywhere else.
I thought about putting nails back in it like the original build but I figured the modern glue would hold up on its own well enough.
I used furniture refinisher on it with a topcoat of wipe on satin poly and it turned out great.
Before I saw how this little table was built I was very much caught up in making things fit with absolute precision and I am still inclined to be very critical of my fittings, but that little table had really stood the test time and it was not a precision built piece.
The history I know about it is my granny got the table from her parents and they presumably brought with them in a wagon when they came to Texas from Missouri.
When I was a kid my granny had an aquarium with Guppies on it for many years, when she passed my brother got it and used it as a night stand, my brother is the one that fell on it.
After I repaired it my brother used it for a couple more years until he passed and the table came to me since I had repaired it.
My wife is now using it beside her chair as a side table.
I think all joinery has its place and there is no such thing as 'purist', you can go back as far as you want in woodworking and if a craftsman of any past era is offered technology that makes their life easier they would jump on it in a heartbeat.
Sorry for writing all that, but repairing this table made me realize most normal old timey woodworkers built things to serve a purpose and their time was probably at a premium so good enough was good enough and this table proved that point to me.
Interesting comment, cheers for sharing.
Wonderful story, thank you for sharing sir
"I think all joinery has its place and there is no such thing as 'purist', you can go back as far as you want in woodworking and if a craftsman of any past era is offered technology that makes their life easier they would jump on it in a heartbeat."
That's all that needed to be said. It's an excellent point, that's going to be missed by a lot of people who don't like reading wordy comments.
Have you noticed the lack of, "purists" in the comments bashing pocket screws?
Any job worth doing is worth doing badly.
One ! GOOD !! MINUTE !! IN THE !! METAL !! SHREADDER !! AND !! THAT !! TABLE !! AND !! CHAIRS !! BECOME !! A !! MASTERPIECE !!!
Denying advancements in tools in this generation, in past generations or in the next is like denying the use of any tool. Whether you’re talking about pocket hole jigs, dominoes or a hammer… doesn’t matter. Anyone who sticks to a certain toolset is respected. You lose respect when you turn choices into a political battle with others. Woodworking is for anyone. Let’s keep it that way. Stumpy, keep up the great work!
Not true at all! The only acceptable tools in woodworking is a stick and a stone, like the original master woodworkers in the stone age!
Well said!!
“Pfft, who needs a hammer when you have rocks!” -cavemen probably.
@@Fekkat AND !! FIRE !! LOOKS !! QUITE !! GOOD !! TOO !!
Well said very well said every task has a certain tool ya gottause what ya got when it's proper
I precisely use pocket screws because I have a relatively small shop and most of my work is for modular, storage and organization furniture. Thanks for this excellent video!
Pocket hole joinery will always have a place in my shop. There are times when it has definitely been the best option. Knowing when to use a certain type of joinery is what makes one a skilled craftsman just as much as mastering one specific type.
I started out using construction lumber, a skill saw and pocket screws to build stuff, and still use them every now and then, they absolutely have some advantages.
Same here. Pocket screws are the gateway drug of woodworking!
I was given a old Craftsman table saw, a jigsaw and a orbital sander. I'm not the best at woodworking but the first thing I bought was a pocket hole jig and then I made a simple table. Now I'm about 6 projects in from that with more tools. I don't think I would have been as excited to make stuff without the simplicity of that jig. I'm practicing making other joints though and until I get it to pocket holes it go!
I have a bench on my covered back patio. Tarps go up on the sides of the patio in the winter. In the most protected corner I have a rack to hold full sheets of plywood at about a 15 degree angle from vertical. Lumber goes under the bench. My equipment consists of a compound miter saw, a track saw, a router with fence, brad nailer, and a collection of rechargeable tools...jig saw, small circular saw, impact driver, drill, etc. I can cut a dado with the router if I need to. Generally do pocket screws and glue.
Face-frame cabinets and drawers for the bathroom are in progress. Boxes and drawers are plywood. Pretty parts are beetle kill (blue stain) pine to match the walls. Vanity top will be a store-bought Acacia wood top to match the room trim and Oil-rubbed Bronze fixtures. Also working out what the new kitchen cabinets will look like.
@@Bradofosho I paid $27.00 for my compound miter saw at a pawnshop, as it barely turned and emitted large quantities of foul-smelling white smoke when tested. A quick inspection revealed the anticipated plugs for the carbon brushes, so I snagged it and hit Amazon for a $12.00 pair of new brushes. Runs like new. About $40.00 total for a nice Craftsman saw.
As someone just starting out, I love anything that makes the job easier, while I learn more advanced techniques
So what you're saying is a real craftsman knows what techniques, methods, tools, and materials they have available, and applies them accordingly. Sound advice 👌
FINALLY a Pro woodworker who understands that every woodworker ... is not a pro. Thank you.
The right tool for the right job, and every approach has its own merits.
Yep. If you don’t like pocket hole screws… don’t use them and stfu.
Argh! Can’t stand that expression. The right tool, sure but what is the “right job”? One should just say the right tool for the job.
Indeed. Time and money are real. They have real value, and none of us has infinite amounts of either. It's important to not overdo every last project, or you will burn yourself out. Never let pride, even pride in your craft, keep you from living a happy, balanced life pursuing the things that really matter.
WORKSHOP !! OVERLOADED !!
This ode to the pocket screw verges on the poetic. Well said!
I've never built anything with wood, but the intensity of the conversation made me listen to the whole thing lol
I have as a small child often laid under chairs and tables and wondered at the marvelous intricacies of the fasteners used to hold such furniture together, and I do remember seeing pocket screws in stuff as old as I can imagine
As do I. I believe several of them were made by my grandfather. He was less about the construction, more about the carving but the fact that what he made over 80 years ago is still around (and in use) now would indicate that they've certainly done their job.
Thanks for bring back the memories of lying under furniture figuring out how to build things!
I did this, too! lmao!
I actually owe my love of woodworking to this channel and the clear, concise and rational talks like this one. The way you take the time to understand, present and examine each subject is artful and I wanted you to know that I value and appreciate you and your channel.
Pocket screws, paint, and southern yellow pine construction lumber are some of my favorite ways to piss off the woodworking purists. The first two are pretty obviously useful for a variety of reasons, and anyone who is capable of putting aside their "fine woodworking" biases can see why they are very practical and acceptable ways of doing things. Southern yellow pine is another one of my favorites, because although it doesn't have incredible wear resistance, it's an incredibly strong, tough wood that can prove you don't need to make everything out of expensive hardwoods for them to hold up. Heck, one of my family's heirloom pieces of furniture is a picnic table and set of benches my great uncle made in the 1950's using painted SYP construction lumber and lots of pocket screws.
You speak so fluently and calmly. With me being an amateur wood worker I appreciate this video lol 😆.
A pocket hole project is what originally got me started woodworking. Since then I've learned to use many other stiles of joinery in my projects. But it was the ease of pocket holes that sparked my fire.
ICWYDT 😆
There is a time and place for everything in this craft. Quite frankly the ones that can’t recognize that don’t appreciate the craft like they think they do. It’s a little bit of a Dunning Kruger effect with these ones
I suffered from this till I watched this video I thought that I could build anything with mortise and tenon or dove tell ect. And never needed a screw or nail but my eyes have been opened
Personally I don't like them outside professional woodworking because it feels like cheating to me but as I said, outside of professional use.
They are fast and with the proper jigs accurate, but for a nice looking piece, that you can afford to take the time on a "traditional joint" typically looks nicer and gives a personal sense of satisfaction that you don't get from driving a screw home lol
I suppose some of them could be average woodworkers thinking that they are great. I’d bet it’s more egocentric bias than DK effect. They fail to realize that the narrow way they see woodworking doesn’t apply to the world writ large. Although I personally think it’s mostly them seeking status.
Personally I’m an artist. I don’t use pocket screws in my “fine furniture” because they have no place in my artwork. If I was building something purely utilitarian I would probably do something even cruder than pocket screws so I don’t have to buy the jig.
Screwing together 2x4s isn’t fun to me anymore though I started there like most people. But I also don’t project my own little version of experienced artistic woodworking onto the whole community so I don’t mind what other people do in their craft.
Great comment!
Yes, to all of that. Woodworkers I respect use pocket holes because they are earning their living through their work and are not building show case stuff with it. My eye opener was Nancy Hiller's "Kitchen Think".
@@airwolf61970 Good thing you "informed" him of that. Everyone needs an expert to tell them things like that.
How many of these "traditionalists" use a cabinet saw and joiner to construct their fine furniture? I would ask each one if they use the tools, in other words, a hand saw to make rip and cross cuts; hand plane each board to get a smooth edge and hide glue only.
The fun part of woodworking is building what you want in the way you want. Be proud you made something yourself.
Couldn't have said it better myself!! People scoff at the use of construction lumber and pocket screws while they pull out their Dominoes and sliding cabinet saws. It's all just technology that gets the job done and different things are better for different situations
Or routers. I have a collection of shaper planes from the 1800s but I am not going to use them now that electricity has been harnessed and somebody had the good sense to invent the router. Which by the way is one of the most, if not THE most, versatile tools in any shop.
Building drawers with pocket holes has simplified my life tremendously. I don't have a router table and Dado sets are not available in my neck of the woods...
I have minimal woodworking skills with no shop, just a garden shed. I assembled and made an 8' x 3' workbench using 2x4s and 1" ply. I made it in my backyard in an afternoon ( about 4 hours) using only pockets holes. That was 10 years ago and it's as strong and sturdy now as it was when I made it. For people of my caliber and experience, I find pocket holes a god send and have used them for numerous projects including a stand for my tumble dryer to fit over the washing machine and it neither wobbles or shakes. People may turn their noses up at them but I don't care, they've always worked fine for me. Thank you Nubs for this great illuminating video.
The only thing missing from this video was James dropping a mic at the end. Not only is he incredibly knowledgeable, he know how to pass that knowledge along. I hope this ends the pocket hole debate, but there are some stubborn people out there. Thanks for another amazing video
This debate will never end... We still have people who think the Earth is flat and Pineapple belongs on Pizza...
@@blueblur6447 LOVE !! PINEAPPLE !! PIZZA !!
THE !! MIC !! FELL !! IN !! THE !! POCKET !! HOLE !!
I love the statement "Results are what matters"!
It is so easy to forget what the real end goal is when we get caught up in the ideologies of the latest social media pundits and their never ending goal to become more "pure" than the next guy.
Quite so, we need to be objective orientated, not process orientated.
Great tutorial. And thanks for standing up for the little guy.
I like how you’re all about results and don’t get hung up on “purity” for purity’s sake - you said the goal is to create things that are “functional, beautiful, and durable” and I love that 👌🏿
Thank you for doing this video. I'm one of those without a massive shop. I'm also an engineer by day so function tends to trump "form" in my book. My brother in law has a HUGE and massively equipped wood shop in and is one of those pocket screw snobs, so I appreciate when an actual professional like yourself comes out with the points about p-screws.
Stumpy has spent his life respecting the legends of the woodworking past who created, educated and moved this craft forward...Bringing solid education of the old, the new and the unknown to the next generation of wood workers. He is entering into the hall of woodworking legends.
Pocket screws work just fine for a variety of projects/locations. I am glad to have them in my arsenal of connecting methods.
I´m about to build a bookshelf for my daughter. My FIRST bookshelf. Oh, and I’ve just invested in a Kreg pocket screw jig and clamps.
When I saw the title of this video, I thought “Uh, oh! Wrong approach. I’d better see what I’m about to do wrong!”
Thanks, James! You put my mind at ease, AND made me think about when NOT to use pocket screws 🤓
And since I’ve got your ear: Thanks for all your work! I’ve learned a LOT from you! About to Buy some of your plans.
As a shop teacher I used blocks drilled on an angle. We used them to attach table tops. We could have used a pocket hole jig to help slot of kids to make things. Who knows maybe those kids would still be making wood projects.. I loved the accomplishment a student has when finished a project.
Fifty years ago my school district required shop in both 7th and 8th grade. Things I learned then are still with me. Thanks for being a shop teacher…you can really change a person’s life.
@@UppsalaSal 35-40 years ago I don't remember shop even being offered in my schools.
Great comparison of a person pocket holing a project on there deck vs someone in there well equipt shop. Results are what matters. Can't find one thing said in this video I disagree with. Well done.
Don't tell anyone but I used pocket holes to make longer boards for my house as I was changing the old wall. It worked really well with some glue in the joint! Longest in the store had was 5.4 meters and I needed 6.5.
Excellent points for those who live for putting down other techniques than what they espouse.
Love this analysis… as a newcomer to woodwork it’s really encouraging to have pocket screws (which I’ve used in constructing parts of my workbench) endorsed and not dismissed out of craft snobbery!! You’ve also confirmed some appropriate and inappropriate uses - so thank you 👍👏
A measured and well thought out video, as usual, James. I always appreciate your videos even though I am near the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to woodworking skills.
Well said. As a hobbyist I strive to learn the trade and someday use more traditional methods of joinery, but in the mean time I need to get the work done. Pocket holes to the rescue. I love Roy Underhill and would love to do the things he does but for me it's not practical.
I want to say thank you very much for this video I do not have the skill level of a lot of other people and pocket joinery for me is just the easiest way for me to understand and how to get into woodworking and make simple shelves and cabinets for my house
As usual, you gave us a lesson and your opinion without talking down to anyone. We’ll see the reverse of that in some of the upcoming comments. As a brand new wood worker wanna be, pocket holes will provide a major leap forward for my projects. Just like your channel!
Every tool has its use. Except chainsaw grinder wheels, those things were designed by the devil… :P
They have a use. You keep one on hand for that neighbor who likes to borrow tools. Oh, you need a grinder? Here, borrow this one! It grabs, so run it at full speed!
Here here!!
My dad almost lost a thumb to one
@@starhawke380 you know I may actually buy one just for that purpose
I have a friend that for many years, at least partially, lived of the income from a chainsaw grinder attachment he designed, here in Sweden, and it sold all over Europe. He made the chain run freely in the disc on the grinder, so it never catched or kickbacked at all, it was very safe. It stopped selling though, unfortunately, after Germany changed it's rules regarding grinder attachments, and cheaper varieties started to take over the market.
Very well spoken. Your argument is very credible. Thank you for taking the time to present it.
WOW! Who would argue with pocket hole fixation?? thanks for your videos!
Great overview in this video , as always.
I've grown to become very fond of pockethole joinery over 50+ years of working with wood. It adds another string to your bow that is fast, effective and strong and easily concealed. The fact that it allows for wood to move ÷ a huge problem in humid areas of Australia is pivotal in my affection for it AND as you state I simply love them for workshop cabinetry which is always in a state of flux. Cheers.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I am always amazed at the amount of woodworking snobbery that exists. If the object made is beautiful and useful either to its maker or user then that is all that matters. 🔨🔨
Built all three benches in my ship using pocket screw joinery; 14' main bench that is also part of my chop saw station; 6' bench for working while sitting; 4' square movable bench. They have all been around 5 years and still rock solid.
As that guy on the back porch building my kitchen cabinets, I appreciate this video.
If they’re good enough for Norm, they’re good enough for me.
Damn straight.
LOL Norm Abram. If he can find an easier or better way or a new way to do something he will. Years later he may revisit a project and will admit if it worked or didn't and try something new or go back to the old ways. But the Guy had a literally whole TV set of possibilities which was endless and This Old House kind of joked about that.
I’m interested in learning more about modern pocket screws and wood movement. I didn’t think they would work together
I built and L-shaped desk top out of solid walnut and plywood using nothing but pocket screws. I machined walnut boards with tongue-and-groove edges and pulled them together with pocketscrews on the underside. Then I laminated the L-shaped top to an underlayment of plywood with the grain and L-joint opposite from the walnut top. I made a facing strip to go around the edge of the assembly to hid the plywood bottom. All the joinery was done using pocket screws and normal screws to hold the bottom plywood to the top walnut. No glue to deal with. It allowed me some years later to modify the desk to a normal desk by simply removing some screws and doing a little cutting of the original pieces and screwing it back together. It was probably one of my best woodworking projects ever.
When I first started getting into woodworking, about a decade ago or so, I built tons of stuff with pocket hole joinery. The chair, bookcase and various other shelves and little tables are in the exact same state as they were when I built them 10 years ago.
Over the years, I've gotten more refined in my joinery, but honestly.. watching this video and now having this thought... If something is going to last 10 years and still be perfect, then, that's pretty much good enough for most people's needs. Or at least 20 or 30 years. And judging from how my decade old stuff is doing now, I have no doubt they'll last another 10.
There are lots of projects where things just need to be good enough, and the speed of pocket screw jigs makes something worthwhile to do, whereas with a mortise and tenon, it just wouldn't be. Recently, I made an archery target out miscellaneous scrap wood in my garage combined with rags and an old plastic drop cloth, spray paint picked up from the recycling center, and the backing for a hook rug that I picked up from a thrift store. In this project, I didn't even use pocket screw joinery, because I could use even lower grade techniques! But I did use pocket screws for the part of the project where the screws were the "latches" that might occasionally be removed.
In this day and age it's a rite of passage, and a methodology that brings the joy of making something accessible to so many more aspiring makers. The ones that are elitist against pocket hole joinery are essentially the ones who are prepared to let the art die in my opinion, even if they believe pocket hole joinery is the antithesis of woodworking. Personally pocket holes have opened up more possibilities to myself, which in turn has given me more confidence to try more technical and difficult builds, although I'm very much a novice. Thanks for another great video
It's their hill to die on....
Did pit sawyers condemn the Shakers for introducing the circular saw blade?
Bodgers and greenwood enthusiasts don't use saws at all, but I don't see them decrying the house they live in or other things that they use in everyday life.
Well said Sam 👍👍🍻
I use pocket screws with no problems. Really saved me some grief repairing a bust kitchen cabinet. I do use clue most times also.
I enjoy your use of extensive experience, physics and logic in your videos.
Well stated, as usual. Except for a "fortunate" few, professional woodworking seems (to me) to have been about productivity to make a living. Notable exceptions of course. If modern tools had been available the old guys would have used them. If you don't believe that, use old tools exclusively on your next project you want to finish quickly. I mix old and new as I imagine most people do. Fine with me if you don't like pocket holes.
Which begs the question, who are these people crying about pocket joints? I can only think of two possibilities. One, some hobbyist who's never been commissioned or two, some retired crank who bitches about anything made after 1955 and only complains online because he couldn't find anyone left to re-ribbon his old manual typewriter.
The people crying about pocket holes are likely just instinctually trying to preserve their status in the group. It’s important you know that the DIYers are making inferior furniture. Because at first glance you might not tell the difference. People like status, a lot.
That being said, remember not everyone is a professional. Not everyone builds with production in mind. Some of us are artists building for the sake of bringing beauty into the world. What an old timey professional woodworker would have done is irrelevant to us.
Don’t make the mistake of classifying all woodworkers into a utilitarian category or you’re no better than the purists we’re complaining about. Some people build for utility, some for money, and some for art. That’s at least three categories with very different intentions and you can’t hold them all to the same set of standards.
@@CarlYota I build functional art for money so yes I can.
@@rickcolumbo3148 it's always old cranks or people who don't like that their talents are being "invalidated" by a new/different way of doing things.
@@rickcolumbo3148 😂
Thank you stubby for all the weekend warriors !
Amen. A voice of reason! I look forward to your every post, James.
As my dad used to say, when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Different tools were invented to solve different problems. The only time a tool or technique is bad is when it is misapplied.
I use pocket hole joinery often. I’ve never understood the objection to it. Then again, the same people who complain about pocket holes also complain about CNC machines. They are both just different techniques. I have a pocket hole jig and if inhale the space and funds I would so buy a CNC machine. If they would come up with a machine that could automate sanding I would so buy that as well.
I believe that going to things like CNC machinery too soon detracts from skill. There's a degree of intuition about how a material behaves and its limitations which is best learned by literal hands-on experience with it. And not being able to do the work yourself means that when you have to do something you can't do with the press of a button you're left looking like an idiot. If you have gone through the process you will be able to come up with a good solution.
You mean, kinda like a drum sander? Won't do every surface, and you might want to touch up with a finer grit by hand or the random orbital sander, but for the largest surfaces it can do at least the blunt of the job nice and fast.
I built a whole kitchen worth of drawers with pocket screws for the sides, and dowels for the bottom, including 36" wide deep ones, full of heavy pots 15 years ago. Placed the pockets so they were hidden by the drawer fronts. Not a show kitchen, the Mrs. loves to cook, so used daily. Great option for me, as I had limited space to work, and the drawers are still rock solid.
Once again, good, common-sense advice! I recently used pocket screws to remedy a squeaking staircase. As it was not possible to access the treads and risers from underneath, and the final finish was carpet, it was the best option to eliminate the 'haunted house' scenario quickly and effectively!
I don’t care for them simply because they like to twist the workpiece and cause misalignment. But, I recently discovered Stickley uses them in their bookshelves. Surprising and yet not surprising.
Stickley himself was a consumate Modernist. His approach tossed out a lot of the "traditional" flourishes and techniques in favor of sturdy high-quality things ordinary people could afford and live with. That meant using more productive modern techniques in construction.
I’ve experienced the same thing. I tend to half tighten all the screws then back through and tighten them again and that takes care of the problem.
Sounds like poorly made pocket screws if they're twisting and causing misalignment Oo
The right tool for the right job. Sheesh it would take forever if there weren’t other choices. As always great common sense advice.
Absolutely! Results are what matters! Thank you for helping temper the conversation. Keep up the fantastic work!
Agree completely. There's a time and place for pocket screws. A small table for your daughters dorm room/apartment - pocket screws. An heirloom piece for your daughters wedding - no pocket screws.
Well said, James!
I enjoy having the product of the work. The work itself doesn’t bring me much pleasure. I work quickly and then on to the next job.
Hey, while we're pissing off the purists, can we have an episode for when T nuts (and other hardware like them) are appropriate and how to use the correctly? I always thought they'd be great for when you really need a strong set of threads inside wood, and they could be just as easily hidden, like in an articulated arm for an overhead light.
I love T-nuts. Those things are so damn handy.
@@barryomahony4983 Not only hardwoods.
It has been common practice to drill a pilot hole into the bottom of a joist and run in 3/8" all-thread for plumbing hangers.
Granted, plumbing shouldn't be a dynamic load, but this technique seems to hold up (even for seismic bracing of water heaters and the like)
Oh yeah, T Nuts and Threaded Inserts in the same comment stream?
Not sure how they'd work for wood, but nutserts (HF Threaded Insert Riveter Kit) are so dang handy for thin tins!
Appropriate usage for T Nuts would be a good idea for a new video.
Looking forward to it stumpy. Don't forget to give James credit for the idea.
Are these the kinds of fasteners that Ikea uses in their particle board furniture? Its pretty creative but I don't see used by other furniture makers.
@@johnsrabe Triggering the Trads, Setting Off the Snobs
This video presents one of the best arguments for anything that I've heard in a while. Yes, argument - setting forth and supporting an assertion. Great job!! 😊
THIS WAS A GREAT POST! I agree. There is nothing to be gained by turning this channel into “Snobbery Woodworking” projects only. I have restored many antiques over the years and have always noted that there were angled screws in many of them. Guess what… they simply found a way to do that process an easier way, today. Hurrah! Besides, there are some woodworkers out there who still nail joints together. I’ve seen that in old pieces, too. Who decides what is Kosher as long as it works for the person doing it. And, if people can do a reasonable job with a tool that costs them only a few dollars, I say, “That is just great!” It will help keep people involved in our craft and they may decide they want to try other methods of joinery later on. Good Job and Thanks for standing up for all woodworkers!
Traditional joinery. Truthfully there was never any joinery that started out as traditional, until we climbed down out of the trees and started to using trees to build with. Pocket holes are just one more form of joining two pieces of wood together.
Traditions can be fun and all, but the moment it becomes peer pressure from dead people (or from living people bamboozling you so nothing changes "for reasons") that is a problem actually.
@@louisvictor3473 Yes, let's end necrocracy.
This is all so true
@@NickBR57 this word needs to be used more often. Just saying.
For a lot of people the simplicity of pocket hole joinery is their entry into woodworking. As they progress they may choose to try more traditional joinery methods, by which time they have mastered measuring, cutting and dimensioning boards.
As an automotive mechanic, my woodworking toolset is fairly limited. A true "woodworker" would scowl and scoff at my addiction to construction screws. High end joinery is just not feasible for me, pocket screws would be about the nicest type of joinery i could pull off with what i have.
My favorite Stumpy Nubs video so far, well articulated. 100% agree. Bravo.
I would have to say you are right about pocket hole joinery James. I started out doing projects with pocket holes and then learned other joinery styles. We have some antique furniture that is quite old and I’ve seen some pocket holes use in them. So….yeah, it’s been around forever, which made me feel better about using it. I find that I use them like you when it is the best solution. It’s all good.
Personally, I've never had good luck with pocket hole joints holding up over time. Even machined pocket holes in prefabricated pieces with proper screws just never stand up for me compared to the life of the rest of the material it's made out of. If you can manage to make use of them effectively, go for it. For my luck though, I only use them for a quick and dirty fix for something temporary, like a jig, or to tack in as support to supplement another joint.
Why do your projects not hold up with pocket screws? Are you using it out doors without using stainless steel fastners? Are the joints nice and tight, good cuts and no rocking before assembly? Are you using this joinery type on chairs which exert a huge amount of racking force? I'm asking because I have built thousands of pieces with this type of joinery and the only failures are one that were used improperly for the design or catastrophic issues. Like falling out of a truck! If using this type of joinery is failing you, look at the key issues. Is this the right type of joinery for the project? Is speed of construction necessary? Is the look of the piece going to make it "ugly" using this method. Can your current skill level accomplish the project? Don't mean any disrespect but some questions need hard answers, that also can be a learning objective.
@@moldings_etc Primarily in framing for shelving and furniture (not chairs), both indoor and outdoor. When used outdoors, I do make sure to use proper materials with the proper fasteners. And to be clear, the joints can hold up for a while, but not as long compared to the life of the material they're in. Yes, wear and tear and related repairs are normal and not a fault of the joint, but comparing the time saved using a pocket hole joint in the beginning and needing to repair it down the road (at least in the likelihood that I've experienced), versus taking the extra time up front to do something like a mortise and tenon that will last as long as the rest of the material does, and I feel you save much more time in the end with the latter. Again, this is all my personal experience and opinion. Your mileage may vary.
@@kasbakgaming So it seems you have already figured out which projects to use pocket screws on and which ones not to. That's part of the choice of which methods to use, experience on what holds up and what doesn't.
I'm sure if full mortise and tenon was as quick as pocket holes, no one would use them. Good luck in your future projects!
The only problem I have with any fastening method is when a particular method is improperly used.
The pilot hole would be the most important 1st step with everything in alignment, without any special equipment.
I used pocket screws to attach plywood nailers for drywall. That was one pure genius inspiration that saved me from my framing error. That said, it works nicely in tight locations a 2X won't fit.
I've been getting a few of your videos in my recommended feed for a few days - this is the video that earned the sub. I love when people lean into nuance.
"No true craftsman will use a hammer with a metal head rather than the rock on the end of a handle that we have used for years"... Fred Flintstone
Listen…if the “old masters” had the current power tolls available in today’s market…they would be using them…I worked in a high end woodworking shop for ten years…pocket screws were used by the 100lbs a month…these “purists” woodworkers take three weeks just to build a bird house, with hand tools…really ?
Conversely (and it doesn't apply to me), but if someone finds personal joy in taking weeks to make birdhouses by hand, who are we to judge?
@@mychalevenson7710
My bad…I stated my position incorrectly…my point was the woodworkers who consider themselves to be purists…in the cases I’ve encountered good/bad and worked with professionally…believe that because the masters created their work with hand tools that to be a true craftsman there is no other way…now I do believe that you should have an understanding of the proper use of hand tools…thus making the power tool transition easier and better understood…that’s all.
Very sensible commentary. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
I love that you made this video. I think the spirit of the craft is being as precise as possible, creating and then feeling the reward that comes from the effort put in and a product that serves the intended function whether that is utility, beauty or both. Thanks for posting!
I love my pocket hole jig! I have used pocket holes and screws in many applications and found them, in many instances, faster, stronger, and a lot of times easier to conceal.
Best testimonials for pocket screws is to have one of the naysayers break apart a box or cabinet carcass glued and screwed with pocket screws.
So so true SN. I love your delivery and the absolute unequivocal way you make your point. I totally agree by the way.
I am refinishing a hall table built by my great-great grandfather as a wedding gift to my grandmother. It was built about 1900. It was in daily use by my grandmother until she died. My parents used it for another 10 years. The hand carved pocket screws worked fine. Fine craftsmen used complicated joinery because they did not have or could not afford fasteners. Most 1800-1900 furniture was built by the users or a friend. It was what they needed and could afford.
When I built my kitchen cabinets I used traditional rabbets and dados for the carcasses (because I have the right tools to do that), but pocket screws were absolutely the easiest and best way to fasten the face frames together (glued) and then to fasten them to the front of the cabinets (unglued). A dozen years later they still look perfect with no sign of loosening.
Just yesterday a friend of mine, who is an advanced beginner woodworker showed me a cabinet he built for his inherited (from FIL) drill press. He purchased the K jig on craigslist and had to order some parts but built a 4 drawer cabinet which acts as the stand for the bench top drill press. It turned out great and he extremely proud of it and pleased how well pocket joints worked for him. James, keep up the great work. You are right on with this message. Marth
This might have been my favorite video subject in a while. You nailed it on the head my man and I for one whole heartedly agree, Not every piece of furniture made in my shop will be meant for heirloom quality type purposes. I use and love the pocket hole technology" it has saved me a few times during the assembly! Thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.
You are made for instructing. Your videos are very easy to follow and listen to and so well organized. Thanks so much.
Thanks for another very informative, direct, to the point presentation. It's so nice to have you (and a few others) being helpful and practical while so many just (arrogantly) present a narrow range of elitist solutions. As a person with limited time and resources, knowing how to use ALL practical solutions is very (very, I say) valuable. Thanks 1,000,000.
So true! I own a furniture repair business. Pocket screws are not good for joints that are going to move or take a lot of weight. Dining tables and chairs are usually not a good place for pocket screws. But as you stated kitchen cabinets screwed to the wall will last many years. I built my kitchen cabinets with pocket screws and they are very strong. Good video.
Ocassionally I make something out of whatever wood is available to me, a piece of furniture or a useful household artifact perhaps, but, knowing what a carpenter can do, in terms of his mastery of framing, 1st and second fix, the layout, building and hanging of a staircase, building a cut roof, and so on and comparing that body of knowledge to my primitive beginners hobby level skill, disqualifies me from making any claim to be one and I certainly will never be good enough to call myself a joiner. So I'm a bit of a pragmatist when it comes to joining pieces of wood. Appropriate to what I can do with the tools, materials, and readily available fixings there are, and what my limited physical ability allows, are my guiding principles. This pragmatic approach affords me a lot of satisfaction in every stage of a project, from inception, thinking it through, putting the idea on paper, building, finishing, and using it every day. The process is a therapy of the soul, and gives added purpose to my existence, so whether its some fast drying fix everything fancypants glue, pocket screws or a French cleat to hang a piece on, if it gets the job done in a neat and secure way, that's the route I go. We see very little criticism of the use of skillfully managed wood-working machines in pursuit of the goal of ambitious and highly effective results, and those for whom traditional joinery floats their boat, have skills that are rightly admired by us low-level wood-butchers, so, please, you elitists, leave us and our pocket screws etc to get on with the job in the way that suits whatever resources we can muster. You do it your favoured way, we will do it whatever way we can. Afterthought. . .pocket screws will never bury the skills of traditional joinery, for as long as timber and man exist, for there will always be those who aspire to and attain the highest degree of skill sophistication and artistry in their chosen medium, for which we can all rejoice and be grateful.
Lastly, thankyou Stumpy for showing us your practical down to earth realistic approach to so many aspects of woodworking in your always valuably instructive and entertaining videos.
" Don't paint with such a wide brush" a perfect statement.
We are in the middle of a move right now so can I just say thank you to the woodworker that used pocket screw to build my desk! I never would have been able to move it without breaking it down first.
Time savings in construction and ability to dismantle a piece are probably the top 2 benefits of pocket hole joinery. My 9ft farm table has 0 glue and can be dismantled 100% if need be.