Why was some of New York part of the Confederacy until 1946?
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- The American Civil War between the Union and the Confederacy split the nation neatly down the middle, and was a war between North and South, right? Well, for the most part that was true. However, the Town Line area of New York also voted in 1861 to join the Confederate States of America and leave the Union, a decision that was not overturned until almost 80 years later.
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hoi4 peace deals when you forget to take that one state and the enemy continues to exist technically
Dunno why the US didn't just open the console and annex it. Not a very pro gamer move.
@@RealMothman98 it’s ironman mode mate
@@frozzie108 Damn. Absolutely malding.
I’m pretty sure bba peace deals create 1000 governments under generic portrait after ww2 ends.
@@CausticSpace He wanted to get achievements
"NYC becomes its own city state."
The entire Upstate NY liked this.
As someone who is from Upstate I can confirm this to be true
As someone who is from downstate I can confirm this to be true
@@pavan923 845 gang
As someone from Long Island we agree to this
@@carteriffic1681 long island is just diet new jersey
As others have pointed out, Town Line is upstate in Western NY, no where near NYC. I'm from the area, and actually worked out of Town Line before they removed the flags and giant mural a few years ago. According to local lore, it was more of a vote to leave the Union to avoid being conscripted, as opposed to actually joining the CSA.
Upstate New York is known for having cults and weird comings and goings generally.
To add to it, it’s 20 minutes from Buffalo, which is closer to Columbus, Ohio than NYC is.
I noticed the same thing. It's no where near NYC!
What a lame video. I clicked on it being from Lancaster and Alden the two towns that Town Line straddles to hear the story. Just ridiculously poor research
Believe you, but then why “Trea Insula”? Just being hopeful?
In Jones County, Mississippi a group of Confederate deserters and others fought against the Confederacy, apparently mostly because the Confederate government took a large portion of their crops as taxes, at one point raising the US flag over the local courthouse.
Oh yeah they even made a movie out of that
Also,besides parts of northern Mississippi being pro-Union, a large portion of eastern Tennessee was very pro-Union. And of course West Virginia to the point it seceded from Virginia to join the Union rather than come under Confederate control. In fact, even in Virginia itself it wasn't all gung ho Confederate. 40% of West Point cadets who came from Virginia served in the Union rather than the Confederacy. And one of the Union's most prominent and successful generals -- Richard Thomas, the "Rock of Chicamauga" -- was a Virginian who remained loyal to the US, to the point his pro-Confederate family members back in Virginia begged him to change his name because they felt so disgraced.
Winston County Alabama, also declared itself a free state.
@@jody6851 George Thomas.
My great-great grandfather's Florida regiment captured Horseshoe Ridge and ended the Battle of Chickamauga. Had then been a bit quicker thay would hve captured George Armstron Custer's brother and VP Dick Cheney's great-grandfather.
Didn't they technically secede & form The Free State of Jones? Secession Inception.
Just fyi: Town Line is nowhere near NYC, it's basically Canada. It's as far away from NYC as Paris is from Switzerland
lol thank you many forget how huge New York is
That really lets Americans know how much bigger the US is compared to European countries. Thanks for that!
Woah basically Canada? Bruh. 🤣🤣🤣 The city of buffalo is basically Canada then.
Don't forget about Canada. If they were pro-North they wouldn't call it Montre-y'all, it'd be Montre-you-all.
Neo Nazi
Did not laugh.
@@matthewlav2734 was not even remotely funny
I thought it was worth a chuckle 🤭
Bless your heart ...
My one big critique of the video is it gives the impression that Town Line, NY is a "neighborhood" of New York City. In fact, it is a town in and of itself in Erie Country, NY which is close to Buffalo, NY, Niagara Falls and the Canadian border over 360 miles away from New York City. Not a "neighborhood." That's a 7-8 hour drive by car from NY City to Town Line. New York State as a whole is often confused with New York City as a whole by non-Americans. I've seen this often when traveling overseas, and discovering how many people conflate the State of New York with New York City, not realizing the state is very large and NY City/Metro is only a small part of it in its lower southeast corner. Once while living for a time in New Zealand, some Kiwis introduced me to a fellow "New Yorker" when they learned I was from New York City. To my amusement, I discovered the fellow "New Yorker" who they were wondering if he lived near me was from NY alright. From Rochester, NY -- a smaller city in New York State, but also 340 miles away from New York City.
Yeah a lot of us non-Americans are completely unaware that there is a New York State that includes more than just the city, and even the ones who do know will often forget and assume that New York just means the city. In our defence though the rest of the state hardly gets mentioned in the American media we see, and I’m fairly sure Americans often just say New York when talking about New York City
the fact that it's *there* instead of NYC does explain why they went to *Canada* to go to the Confederacy instead of just getting a boat in NYC
Another interesting Civil War Secession story is about Clement Vallandigham, who planned to form a Northwestern Confederacy, with the states of Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, and Illinois, by overthrowing their governments.
What dumb plan, most of the people their were anti slavery
I can't think of four worse states beside texas and florida! Maybe mississipi
@@MyPhobo I bet you love California.
@@MyPhobo have you ever been to New England?
Sounds similar to what Aaron Burr supposedly wanted to do decades earlier. To create some kind of nation out of North American territory with cooperation of Spain, before they were established as states.
I'm from NY and I didn't know about the NYC efforts to secede until a few months ago. I also looked up Town Line, NY earlier this year and it should be noted that it's one of the many towns/hamlets in the Buffalo NY region. Erie County to be precise.
I think what may actually surprise outsiders visiting parts of the Upstate region are the number of Confederate flags you might find up there. And this isn't a one off for the states that sent their men in Union Army colors, it happens in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Ohio too. Political divides are nutty.
One of the most ironic is how many damn Confederate flags there are in West Virginia. West Virginia, which by all accounts should be considered the most anti-Confederate state, because while all the other Union states just simply stayed with the Union, West Virginia actually seceded from Virginia to get back into the Union.
Take away NYC, and New York State (Long Island included) is as blood red as Alabama.
Yeah, there were draft riots in NYC during the Civil War
Democrat Party strongholds all.
@@brianmccarthy5557 Actually, Suffolk County,Long Island was the largest county in the US (in terms of population) that voted for Trump,both in 2016 and 2020
As others have said, Town Line is a village in upstate New York, far from NYC. Town Line is close to Buffalo, some 300+ miles (500km) from New York City. That region of New York State is called "western New York" by the people who live there, but the rest of the state and the rest of the country just refers to it as "upstate NY."
@Louie P I lived in Fredonia and Cassadaga for 9 years, and still have relatives in the area. I like going back for a visit, but it was sad to see the economy fall so far there. I think there is a bit of a comeback, now.
Jesus he got that detail so wrong. I was imagining it as a few blocks in Manhattan or something
@@jasondaveries9716 That happens a lot. To most of the world, including the residents of that city and the towns nearby, "New York" means New York City only, and never anything else. To people who live in another part of the state, that irks us. I live about 15 miles from Town Line, myself. I've lived in New York my entire life, and I've been to NYC once, for a total of about 36 hours (great place, no offense intended... I just wish there was an easy way out of the name confusion).
@@frigginjerk You have the densest city in the US attached to some of the sparsest areas in the US. When I lived in Ohio, it was a shock how close NY State was.
@@ejtattersall156 Yeah, if it weren't for Erie, PA, Ohio and New York would probably have a border. Some chunks of New York State are empty, like up in the Adirondacks, especially in that part that's right in the middle of the northern bulge of the state. It's something like 4000 or 5000 square miles, depending on how you measure it, and I think there's like eight guys living there, give or take. Beautiful scenery up that way.
Is this Town Line, New York? If that’s the case, it’s nowhere near NYC. It’s on the other side of the state in Western New York.
Will change the title to reflect that!
@@historywithhilbert146
It’s a common mistake tbh. I live near NYC but I’ve heard people think Niagara Falls is close to NYC. You should check out this county in Georgia think that didn’t rejoin the union until the 1940’s. And on a side note, New Jersey had a dialect of Dutch that was spoken into the 1920’s.
@@bloodybones63
That was autocorrect on my phone lol.
I was surprised that Hilbert didn't pronounce Abraham Lincoln like an old prospector - normally he's so good at names.
That and Staten Island. ?
@@skybluskyblueify surprised he fucked that up considering its Dutch
He misspelled "Manhattan," too.
@@skybluskyblueify Well Staten Island was part of the New Netherland colony in what is now the American East Coast before the Dutch relinquished/transferred it to the English after they signed the Treaty of Westminster that ended the war with the English and French kingdoms.
I really do not care for a Dutch accent in English get somebody else to read your damn script. Ever heard of emails
I'm actually from Town Line NY and am posting this comment from it. Town Line isn't a neighborhood in NYC. We're 20 mins from Canada in Upstate. We're a 6 hour drive from NYC. I'm gkad my town is getting it's story told but mistaking NY state and NYC is a grave sin.
When I heard you say “Stay-ten” island, I assumed Staten was Dutch. I looked at the etymology and found: The island was named for the Staten-Generaal (“States General”) of the Dutch Republic. I’m not trying start a big anti-Hilbert rant. Just giving a little insight into how my mind works…
So it is does have a Dutch origin, but it's pronounced "Stat-en" Island, with a short _a._
(Of course it's Dutch. That's why the waterways between Staten Island and New Jersey are called the Arthur Kill and the Kill Van Kull.)
@@MenachemASalomon
I didn’t know what kill means in Dutch until now. Thanks.
Even Brooklyn is Dutch of origin from Breukelen while Bergen Street, Bergen Beach and Bergen County, NJ are of Norwegian Origin From The city Of Bergen /Hans Hansen "de Noorman" Bergen
the REAL reason Staten Island got its name is in 1524 when Giovanni Di Verazzano came into new york harbor, he looked over to his left and asked his crew, "hey guys, is stat an island?
@@MenachemASalomon there's even a Bushkill in Pennsylvania near Scranton!
I'd love to know what happened to the 23 who voted to not rejoin the union.
grumbling about how "they will rise again" or some loser thing like that before doing nothing.
disappeared under "mysterious" circumstances.
@@Game_Hero lmao truman shoulda definitely nuked the town, I was quite disappointed with him as up until then he was my favourite president.
@@vergesserforgetter2160 In case this is not a joke and you really think this, go research the horror of nuclear armageddon.
@@vergesserforgetter2160 They had emails with evidence....she couldn't let it stand
There were Poles (like Casimir Pulaski), Germans (like Prussian General von Steuben) and others fighting with the Americans in the Revolutionary War. And there were at least the Hessians fighting for the Crown and against the Americans. I haven't seen a video on this, so you might want to consider it. There were also foreign fighters on both sides in the US Civil War, like the Union General Carl Schurz and the infamous confederate commandant of the Andersonville prison camp, Henry Wirz (tried and executed post-war).
I second this! There were also Haitian conscripts fighting for the 13 colonies as well, in the Battle of Savannah. They even have a statue there now
@@kris5885 No way Haitians were fighting for the British durinf that time. Haiti has been the poorest country in the western hemisphere for how long? 😂
One of the German-American Union brigade commanders, Friedrich Hecker, was a revolutionary who had a song about him in Revolutionary era Baden. ua-cam.com/video/likjD3lME7Q/v-deo.html
@@anthonykaiser974 Now that's a rousing song! I wonder if those Red Hats in the Midwest of German descent would understand either the language or the content. Ich habe etwas deutsches Blut und verstehe alles! Ich verstehe besonders das Führerprinzip und den Faschismus, wie es auch beim Trumpismus der Fall ist!
Interesting. "Dixie Land" (the song) was written in New York before the war in the late 1850s. I knew that but, this story sheds some light as to maybe why.
As some kind minstrel tune.
um what?
My exact reaction when I heard the story!
I remember learning about this one aspect of the Civil War in middle school. There were plenty of northerners who wanted to be a part of the Confederacy.
That is really how civil war works and part of why they tend to be so bloody. It is not like everyone in a specific part of a country want to be their own country while everyone outside disagree. And you can look on another war that also was a civil war but ended in another way: The revolutionary war. It also started because part of a nation/empire wanted to succeed and become their own country and there were plenty of British loyalists everywhere there. Most of the officers on the American side was former British officers just like many of the confederate officers were former US officers.
If the revolutionary war had failed it would also have been seen as a civil war and if the civil war had been won by the confederacy it would have been seen as something else today. It is an interesting thought, isn't it?
"Plenty", there were a few, history shows that majority choose Union, and even more southeners joined the Union.
@@danielogats Well, that depends a bit. Confederate sympathizers were not that uncommon but people that actually switch sides were far more rare. Same thing the other way around.
Some border states were a total mess though on both side of the line.
@@loke6664 My 5th great-grandfather fought for South Carolina and Georgia in the Revolution. His brother was murdered by Tories. Another 5th great-grandfather was a conscripted German Hessian whose military service was sold to the Brits by Germany. He deserted in Charleston and joined the Patriots after a 30-mile pursuit by the Brits.
@@loke6664 Except if the south had won black people would still be slaves, who knows for how long.
2 things wrong with this video.
1. New York voted Republican in 1860, electing Lincoln.
2. Town line is in Western New York 360 MILES AWAY FROM NYC
The city didn't, that's what he's reffering to.
Great video, but wanted to point out that Town Line is actually in upstate New York, not NYC. It’s actually much closer to Buffalo.
The Free States of Scott, Jones, and Van Zandt are good examples too of union or more neutral loyalties during the war. Van Zandt was actually able to defeat both Texan Confederates and union soldiers after the war had ended. Their Declaration of Independence is preserved on a monument in front of the county courthouse to this day.
The Supreme Court _Texas vs White_ decision in 1869 nullified any secession, including Van Zandt co.
An interesting video to do about the American civil war is Native Americans fighting with The South.
Last Southern General to surrender was an Indian wasn't he?
Voices of the past just did a segment from a creek warrior who fought for the south
Then when the war was over guess what happened to the American Indians? What else manifest destiny and punishing the Indians that fought for the South and taking the lands of the Indians that fought for the Yankees.
@@breakerdawn8429 Within a year of the war's end, Northern generals who had recently destroyed the South, like Sherman, Sheridan, Crook, Miles and Custer, were busy committing genocide against the Plains Indians.
Native Americans who stood in the way of the transcontinental railroad -- their treaty rights notwithstanding -- were massacred or forced onto impoverished reservations in what Sherman termed "the final solution of the Indian problem." Final solution .... hmmmm, where have we heard that before?
Sherman's problem with them, he said, was that "they did not make allowance for the rapid growth of the white race," and, "both races cannot use this country in common."
To Grant he wrote, "We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, even to their extermination, men, women and children." Two days later in a letter to his brother John, he said: "I suppose the Sioux must be exterminated ..."
To his soldiers, he said, "During an assault, the soldiers cannot pause to distinguish between male and female, or even discriminate as to age. As long as resistance is made, death must be meted out ..."
His policy was to wage war "till the Indians are all killed or taken to a country where they can be watched."
New York Times ... Dec. 18, 1890 ... Sherman blasted the "civilian interference" that got in his way, otherwise he would have "gotten rid of them all."
Sherman and Sheridan were responsible for the near extinction of the American bison by 1882, its herds once numbering in the millions and the primary food source for the Plains Indians. Starvation was their goal -- ecocide in the service of genocide.
@@breakerdawn8429 and because some of the tribes had slaves.
Doesn't susprise me as NYC, the state is ok but the city..., is a flying fuck up eh?
Miss when it was Dutch :)
Wonderful story, thank you! Personally, no historical footnote is so small that I will not enjoy it immensely! Thanks again!
If you like this kind of historical events look up the Free State of Van Zandt, in Texas. It's a county that refused to secede during the Civil War, seceding from Texas to remain in the Union, and later, after the war, declared its own independence
There was also a big unionist chunk of eastern Tennessee that might've become its own state like West Virginia, had events gone a little differently.
How about Texas founder Sam Houston who own slaves but oppose succession only to be put under house arrest by pro Texan confederates passing away in exile a hero to Texas and Union ...🇺🇸
isn't the planet that Tex talks BattleTech takes place on called Free State of Van Zandt? If so, makes sense
Separatists in Texas creating their own imaginary republics from stolen land? Colour me surprise
I believe that's also true of Lavaca County, where my family settled under Empressario Green DeWitt in the 1820s.
This piece of trivia is frequently trotted out here in WNY (I live a couple of miles from Townline). The problem is that there is 0 evidence that any such resolution was ever passed there, nor even the meeting at which its supposed to have happened, not to mention that even then it wasn't regarded as a separate place that would have been able to do it. It was a publicity stunt for a tavern in 1946 plain and simple.
Britain had the worlds biggest cotton industry during the time of the American Civil War, and yet the cotton mills of England refused to buy Confederate cotton.
For this, Lincoln thanked the people of Manchester personally.
And yet...
We also built warships for the Confederacy, and operated blockade-runners to the south via Bermuda!
And then there was the...
"Trent Affair"...😨
The British Empire had troops in Canada, ready to invade the North.
At least at the beginning of the War, it was Southern policy to prevent or, at least, limit the sale of cotton to Britain on the assumption that the South could use its cotton as leverage to convince Britain to recognize and support the Confederate government. It didn't work. Cotton was the South's chief source of capital and without those exports, the South shot itself in the foot when it came to paying for the War. The stupid CSA embargo helped establish the Egyptian cotton industry.
Montreal in the colony of Lower Canada acted as a haven for Union and Confederate spies. I have no idea what the draw was.
When you are so small people forget you existg for 80 years
Yeah this was right east of Buffalo Ny. Its ironic since WNY has some Confederate supporters here and there in the rural town regions but in relatively small numbers. Something like those cliche truckers or having the flag on their lawn sort of deal.
The political climate leading up to the US Civil War is an interesting subject to me. Recently learned that the first deaths by hostile action in the civil war occurred when federal militias on their way to DC opened fire on rioting crowds of Southern sympathizers in Baltimore (not a place many would expect), a city that was a hotbed of Southern and Copperhead support.
Maryland was a southern state, but wasn't part of confederacy. Nowadays, it's more Northern I suppose.
@Cam Furey There is always that fear factor but at that times all sides preferred to just use lethal methods of riot containment against civilians, even communists were still doing that back in 1956 in Poland or 1989 in China.
Wish I can go back in time to Modernize Bronze Age Egypt. Then Racism wouldn't exist.
There are varying definitions of when the conflict actually started. People were dying in Kansas. What you refer to might be the first time actual soldiers were involved.
@@christiandauz3742 no, it was not invented recently.
Staten Island was initially colonized by the dutch so you pronounce the "a" in "Staten" as a Dutch double a like "Staaten Island"
Except that Staten Island was a British possession from 1664 until American Independence...so it's been Staten (short a) much longer than it ever was Staaten Island. Nobody in NYC pronounces it Stay-ten Island.
@@joejankoski8471 The double aa sound in Dutch is pronounced like "ahh."
While it is true that NYC was in many ways sympathetic to the confederates the hamlet of Town Line mentioned in this video is in Western New York, about half an hour outside of Buffalo NY on the other side of the state from NYC. It is not a neighborhood of NYC as suggested here.
The Confederates had sympathizers that had nothing to do with slavery. Basically it became a rallying cry for anyone that had a beef against the Union. Granted, I doubt these people would care a lot about the actual cause that created the Confederates (even some Confederate states joined the Confederacy for causes not related to slavery such as Tennessee who originally did not join the Confederacy until the rallying cry was about the war and not slavery). Doesn't make Confederates right by any means but just shows the spirit of the time. (Southern California also wanted to join the Confederates and many Native American tribes sided with the Confederates).
imagine if they voted to still not be in the union in 1946
I had to visit the Town Line area earlier this year, and there are legitimately more Confederate flags up than American flags, it’s a little scary.
All wars are fought over land, money, or power; not to free someone else.
Their are intricacies in regard to the things you have mentioned that needed to be preserved by that war.
I heard of stuff like this but didn't know if it was true or not! Thanks for uploading!
Never heard of it. Interesting. Funny.
It is quirky things like this that make history so much more interesting to me
than fiction. As Mark Twain said - Unlike fiction, History is not constrained by having to be realistic (or something like that.)
The Appalachian area was strongly Union. Many people are aware that West Virgina is a separate state due to its loyalty to the Union against the illegal and irregular State Convention that declared Virginia for the Confederacy. Many top Union officers, notably George Thomas, the victor of many battles and campaigns and the third highest ranking Union General after Grant and Sherman, were sons of Virginia. Kentucky and Missouri, weirdly considered Southern States by many of the ignorant, were in fact Union states with many soldiers in the Federal armies. Tennessee was divided, with two different state governments, but East Tennessee was solidly Union and even gave Andrew Johnson as Lincoln's RINO Vice President. The mountain areas of the Carolinas and North Georgia were full of Unionists. Read the excellent history "The Bushwackers" from the Uni ersity of North Carolina Press in the 1990's. So full of Unionists that those states joined the Confederacy by decree rather than popular vote and the governor resisted drafting men into the Confederate Army. Lee had to keep a sizable portion of his Army in the area to maintain control. Men were press ganged by violence onto the Confederate Army and their desertion rate was very high. Lee's Provost Marshals exercised martial law and hung many Union loyalists. The strongest argument for hanging the recalcitrant Lee after the War (he never tried to reconcile the two sides unlike General Longstreet and despised freed slaves. Not surprising as his main prewar source of income was slave breeding on his family plantations in Virginia and selling the children South) was that he had ordered the murders of loyal citizens who were unarmed civilians to enforce his control. The very crimes he had personally hung John Brown for in 1859. Northern Alabama was a Union stronghold and the Union Army had scouts and entire regiments from there. The Republic of Jones in Mississippi that the Michael McConaughey film of a few years ago was based on maintained its Union control through all of the later part of the War and was a refuge for Blacks, Republicans and Roman Catholics after the Democrats regained power by violence and ending Reconstruction in collaboration with the Liberal Republicans in the 1876 elections. This wasn't the only Union area in Mississippi where poor whites allied with Blacks maintained Union strongholds. North and West Texas was full of Union sympathizers. The great grandfather of Admiral Nimitz, of WWII Pacific fame, from Fredericksburg, Texas, a German American area, was hung along with many others for attempting to flee to the Indian Territory, now Oklahoma, to join the Union Army. Nimitz had to keep this a secret during his Naval career due to Democrat Congressmen and Senators, along with Democrat senior Admirals, who would have blocked his career path. This was compounded during the administrations of Woodrow Wilson, FDR and Harry Truman, all of whom were Confederate partisans. Sam Houston, who was one of the founders of Texas, its greatest living hero and a former President of the independent Republic and state Governor, was a Union loyalist kept under house arrest until his death in the latter part of the Civil War. Many Texans joined the Union Army in the West as scouts and cavalry. There were Union parts of Florida in the old Spanish sections and among the swamps, especially the surviving Native American groups. Most of the Tribes in the Indian Nations generally supported the Union, despite cruel persecutions, due to the very reasonable fear that the factions supporting the Confederacy who were largely those who had betrayed their people 25 years before by selling their lands and forcing them on The Trail of Tears, would sell their Western lands to Southern slaveholders and enslave many tribal members. The Nations was a very fought over area and suffered greatly from the depredations of viscious Confederate guerillas like Quantrill, and his future Jesse James Gang subordinates; Bloody Bill Anderson (who liked to collect the scalps of Union loyal Native, Black and White men, women and children) and a host of other sociopathic nightmares, all good Democrats. The Indian Nations was the site of the surrender of the last semi-official Confederate band. It was commanded by the Cherokee Stand Watie, who had been instrumental in stealing his people's lands in the Carolinas, Tennessee and Georgia in the 1830's and profiting greatly. His actions and the other Confederate ravages of the prosperous pre-War Indian Territory turned it into an outlaw paradise post War and led to the weakening of tribal institutions and governance which made it possible for the first post-Civil War Democrat President, Grover Cleveland ( from Buffalo, New York), a temporarily and narrowly Democrat Congress and the same Democrat and RINO Supreme Court that effectively overturned the 14th Amendment in Plessey vs. Ferguson, to unilaterally break the Treaties establishing the Indian Territory, defying prior Supreme Court rulings, and seize most of the tribal lands. Aided of course by grifters like Senator Elizabeth Warren's great-grandfather who falsely claimed part Native ancestry to seize land (and that's where her lying claim of Native ancestry which got her into top universities, law schools, government positions and private law firms originated until a genetic test and independent reporters exposed her fraud).
On the Confederate side, large areas of southern Indiana, Illinois and Ohio were pro-Confederate. Post Civil War they were plagued by outlaw bands like the bloody Reno brothers until they were exterminated. At the turn of the century with the growth of Progressivism, the racism associated with it and the allied resurgent Democrat Party, the Ku Klux Klan, which had been forcibly and violently terminated by the Republican Grant Administration during Reconstruction in the 1870's, the organization was recreated in Southern Indiana to serve as the street militia, secret police, fund raisers by whatever means necessary, and military auxiliary to enforce the control of the resurgent Democrat Party which seized control in the divided three way election of 1912 where Woodrow Wilson emerged, with a highly suspect vote count, as the minority President. He was re-elected in 1916 on the promise of keeping the US out of WWI, which he immediately broke. The Klan served as his enforcers in brutal persecutions of Republicans, German Americans, Roman Catholics and Blacks. The era of the much mentioned but little explained Tulsa Race Riots. German Americans and had their property seized and were never compensated and were interned in camps. Largely by the same folks, including FDR and a young Earl Warren, would do this on a larger scale a little over twenty years later to Japanese Americans. Oddly enough the Japanese Americans in my family got some apologies and compensation but the Germans in my family never have. Or for that matter the Cherokee in my family never have either.
On balance the vast majority of ordinary Americans in 1861 supported the Union and the Republican Party. The Confederacy and the Democrat Party were supported by Southern slave owners, their minions, the military leadership but not the rank and file, much of the established financial elite, many of the American Jews who had for centuries in both Europe and the Mediterranean been involved in financing and running the slave trading industry to both Islam (mostly from European Christian sources) and the Americas (also mostly from Christianized areas of Africa with the aid of Arabic and Islamicized African slavers), and the still relatively small but powerful elites in Washington. They also had substantial support from the Press and American intellectuals. They also had substantial foreign support in Britain and France. Finally major urban areas like the New York City of the the Roosevelts and Baltimore, always a Democrat stronghold, supported the Confederacy. Baltimore in 1861, 1863 and 1864 had to be suppressed by Union troops due to uprisings and riots generated by the Confederate Secret Service of Theodore P. Judah, the most prominent 19th Century American Jew and a renowned lawyer, which typically employed the anti civilian tactics we now legally describe as terrorism. New York City , and other major urban areas, had major riots which could accurately be described as minor uprisings, at the very same time as Lee's second invasion of Pennsylvania which culminated at Gettysburg. Described as mostly Irish uprisings by later Democrat, and non-Irish, hacks like Martin Scorsese, they were decisively suppressed by mostly Irish American Union soldiers with no sense of humor.
Even in California there were numerous skirmishes with Confederate guerillas, who were difficult to distinguish from bandits. Eventually they were either all killed or fled the state when California musterd a large number of Union soldiets, trained them, pacified the State and sent the famous California Column east across the Mojave Desert to defeat the invading Confederate Army under Sibley and his lieutenant Baylor in Arizona, New Mexico and West Texas along with Union troops from Colorado, Kansas and other points East. They then fought under Kit Carson to defeat the Navajo who had taken advantage of the Confederate invasion to attack their traditional targets in the New Mexico pueblos. Then then suppressed some Apache uprisings, killing their great chief Mangas Coloradas, and creating a temporary peace which was only permanently established in the 1880's and 1890's by the Regular Army.
The War was practically everywhere with no firm dividing lines and somewhat similar to the current political situation in 2022.
Simply great.
Let me guess: The Irish.
Actually, there is another! My birthplace in the tiny town of Kyle within the Nantahala community of Macon County, North Carolina, a referendum was held to refrain from rejoining the Union, and sentiment there is still opposed to rejoining, particularly at White Oak Flats Baptist Church, where my family attended, and independence from the Union is still at least verbally maintained by my relatives over there. In that regard, while it's an extremely tiny community most people even in North Carolina will never hear of in any capacity, there is a tiny little town called Kyle that maintains Davis as its president, the Southern Cross as its flag, and William Holland Thomas as its Colonel. Just figured I'd share that, as it will likely remain unknown to the entire world outside the town, those who are from there like myself, and the few folks who might read this comment. God bless, folks!
Sorry you have to deal with all that.
What has Mr. Davis been passing lately.
So basically this was the 1800s CHAZ, except so much less disruptive and so much more inconsequential that it was tolerated during an active war.
This is a FALSE VIDEO. The guy with the British accent is confused between New York City and New York State. The neighborhood/town named Town Line is in Erie County, New York - about 300 miles away from New York City. I suppose there were some in the city who supported the South for economic reasons, but this video is fundamentally flawed. Internet research only, I suppose.
Hey Hilbert. If you ever need some very original video ideas. Try Wangerooger Frisian and Crimean Gothic. Both illusive and interesting languages that went extinct relatively recently.
As you say, the division of the United States during the Civil War wasn't as cut & dried as we like to think. All four of my great grandfather's served as combat soldiers; Three of them enlisted in the Union army. The other one was a Confederate. All four were native to Northeastern Kentucky.
As a native Rochesterian, it does not surprise me in the SLIGHTEST that a Confederate hold out sprung about in some hohum town in West NY. If you drive through the rural regions of Upstate and West NY, you’ll start to wonder if the population knows how far above the Mason-Dixon line they actually live.
Anywhere in the U.S that's rural might as well be below the Mason-Dixon line
It isn't rural bro it's more suburban. It's cut between Lancaster and Alden.
The smug, pretentious way that urbanites talk about rural Americans is probably one of the reasons why your country is cannibalising itself politically. It's actually shocking how much Americans seem to genuinely despise each other and their differences and shows just how deep these divides are.
@@big_slurp4603 I’m literally living in rural NY right now. I don’t have to be pretentious when they wave MAGA flags from their trucks, Fuck Joe Biden flags from their house, put up lawn signs, have Confederate decals and a million other bumper stickers indicative of low-IQ on the backs of their vehicles. Believe me, don’t have to do much guesswork at all anymore. So try not to speak on us Americans from the third person if you aren’t from here bud.
@@big_slurp4603 you are right. Having lived in both cultures my whole life, I know rural types think the urbanites are just as stupid, and I think they are both right.
Interesting tale History With Hilbert. Much appreciated. One thing though, Staten Island is pronounced with a short vowel not a long one. It does not sound like Stayton, but rather Stahton. I know it's being picky, but that's how we pronounce it here in the States. Still, great story! Keep up the good work.
That's a fascinating footnote of American history that I did not know. New York City as a whole, of course, was heavily involved in the Southern economy and thus sympathetic in a business sense toward the Confederacy, because, well... the money was good. Ditto some other Northern states and cities. I have also heard that there were certain counties in Southern states that voted against secession... that might make an interesting history video as well. Thank you for this history!
That's what started the war, the northern mill traders were cheating the southern concern and when England and France began buying southern goods at a better price ,
the mills faced shortages .
And that is where it all started, before that the North couldn't care less about slavery, that was just a political tool .
Sadly some people still wrongly hold hatred for anything from the Confederacy.
Okie now explain why Washington (state) has so much confederate paraphernalia
The American Identity Movement has been strong in the Pacific Northwest. They've used the CSA battle flag as well as the swastika.
Hello Hilbert. Interesting that the timing of the vote to rejoin seems to fit with the British film "Passport to Pimlico".
I love that film! It's so British lol. Ah, Ealing, how we loved thee ;)
This like a more divisive version of Berwick upon Tweed. Changed hands between England and Scotland so often it was still technically at war with Russia into the 1970s (I think. I'm not good with dates. Strange thing for a history geek.)
When the UK was rushing a brexit deal through, last minute, without much details agreed or made public yet, I was doing a bunch of essays for uni, and I was stressing about leaving little details out of my essays that would have big implications. And then I'd look at the news and be like, omg they're totally cramming an essay too, but it's a bit more important than mine, what if THEY miss out something important?? Like, idk, the Isle of Mann or something?? What if we accidentally leave it in the EU?
And then I looked it up and realised that, whether deliberately or not, the Isle of Mann was never in the EU in the first place. What a kerfuffle?? Does the UK government know this? So much cramming!
very nit picky thing i’m about to say but figured i’d just let you know anyway, but Staten island is pronounced Stat-ten Island. Like the shorthand for statistics and the number ten as one word. NY has a couple deceiving names like this due to the large variety of cultural influences from europe and also names of areas that come from native american languages. For example on Long Island many of the towns have native names, like Hauppauge(meaning sweet waters in a local native dialect), Wayandanch(the name of a sachem from the Montaukett), Montauk(named for the aforementioned tribe), etc. NY is one of the most history dense states in the entire USA, arguably the most so, so thanks for focusing on an odd little often forgotten part of it! As a New Yorker and along Islander I appreciate it.
Staten Island comes from the Dutch settlers of New York, or Nieuw Nederland.
"New York becomes its own city state"
I am pretty sure every New Yorker outside of NYC would like that..
How about an episode on Little Dixie in Missouri and the splits within so many small towns?
Absolutely- at least the "Kingdom of Callaway". FYI, Pike County here
Town Line is in Far Western NY, so it was well inside the area that was very partial to the South. I can see that the people of Town Line, in 1861, would have been swayed by a guy like Clement Vallandigham, the Leader of the Northern Copperheads.
There's also the Free State of Van Zandt inside Texas which declared independence from Texas, the US and the Confederacy in 1867 which was actually never officially revoked.
The Confederacy didn't exist as a sovereign entity in 1867...unless you count Town Line, I guess.
@@connorperrett9559 wrong year maybe
Dixie Idaho was settled by southerners pre and post war. There is also a river called "sessesh" which is short for secessionist. As the early settlers would ask any newcomer "are you secessionist?" Or "are you seshess?"
As far as I know that all petered out when the territory became a state. You could find confederate memorials all over the state until very recently.
Interesting. I knew about the " Copperheads" of NYC. But this comes as no surprise,for as you say there were many areas throughout the country that held different loyalties.
""State-enn" Island"
I always thought it was Stat-in Island
If you ask an American, they will tell you it’s Stat · uhn · ai · luhnd
I have no idea how you Americans pronounce this Dutch name so I just went with it ;)
@@historywithhilbert146 Dutch man mispronounces Dutch name, no wonder you guys couldn't keep New Amsterdam
Actually thought this would be about some place in upstate NY. Where if you drove around today and you take a drink for every confederate flag you see, you will get drunk.
On the other hand it is suprising it was such a small community in nyc. There were riots by many thousands in nyc againt the draft and the war.
You rarely see Confederate flags in the South anymore. I actually saw more in Arizona than anywhere and grew up in the deep South.
And it turns out it was upstate but all the way out west near Buffalo.
Aye can you talk about zapatista ?
During the draft riots, the union navy did bombard the city. Also people like to skip the part that fort Sumter was attacked, because Lincoln sent a fleet to Charleston to resupply the troops stationed in the confederacy
Two years ago I drove through Syracuse NY on the back roads. Never seen so many Confederate Flags in my life!
Dude, I thought I was the only one
Yeah it’s a pretty huge surprise to people who aren’t from Upstate. It’s pretty much just a normal sight for us upstaters even though it makes literally zero sense
Thalmor puppeteered civil war between Empire & Stormcloaks.
I'm a New Yorker and this is crazy, surprisingly there was a lot of anti-union sentiment in the City, especially the Lower East Side, so it's interesting to see this
They were anti-union because they were Irish Catholic Democrats fighting for Republican Honest Abe Lincoln.
It's not really that surprising. There were plenty of northerners who believed the United States was a...union of states, and as such the states had every right to choose to leave, and those people didn't want to die fighting Lincoln's war.
Actually...the Governor of the State of Wisconsin planned to secede from the Union in 1860. Why? Many people in that state felt the Federal government, especially with the Dredd-Scott Supreme Court decision, was not opposing slavery strong enough. The Governor took action to disarm the Irish Militias in the City of Milwaukee because he was afraid those militia's would support federal troops that he was sure would be sent in to quell the secession. The Irish politicians and militia officials scheduled a "day trip" to Chicago to raise money to buy more arms. The ship they hired to bring supporters to Chicago SANK on the return trip... and most of those politicians and militia officials died. That's why Milwaukee is now considered a "German" city rather than an Irish one, since German immigrants were the next largest population in the city at that time.
The Confederate States of America didn't dissolve, it went underground. There's a large movement in the South from Texas to the Carolinas to once again sever ties with the rest of the United States and go our own way.
You can bet if that ever happens, a large chunk of middle America is coming with us and given how Industrialized the South is now and the fact that we have the largest population of any region and have the most armed Civilian population of any society on Earth, I don't think anyone could stop us this time.
The South has risen again and it's an industrial and Economic powerhouse that can not be beaten.
Lol. Lmao, even.
@@pawntifex
Ok. You obviously need to get out more. Jan 6th was just a preview of what's coming. You have the most armed segment of any population on Earth who's just waiting for the fuse to be lit. I'm not one of them but I do live in the South and there's not a single one of them who isn't rooting for another civil war. It's EFing crazy and people like you taking it with a grain of salt only reinforce my view that this country probably deserves it. You're jusr as stupid as they are.
As all industry moves to China, it is too late ;-)
@@williambranch4283
China is way over hyped and is economicly what Russia is militarily. The facade is coming undone.
@@blakesutherland519 Rising power, not yet fulfilled. Like Dracula, nothing ever fully dies, but rises again ;-))
Considering how strong the Democrat hold is on the state. Who says they ever left?
Even the confederates the real ones not the dumb KKK
Finally saw the democrats for what they really were and left them
And joined the republicans the very people they fought against
God Save The South and all those that fight for The South
Tri-Insula would've been a good idea back then.
My ancestor Marion Keith was one of these men. He rallied with men in town line NY and traveled south where he joined the 25th TN Inf., company G and served with them for the duration of the war. Deo Vindice 🏴
@Graf von Losinj - I Post Info returned to NY. I'm the first Keith since the mid 1700s to not be born and raised in Thurston, NY. Living in east Tennessee now. Lord willing I'll die here in dixie, the land my ancestor fought for
@@jdkeith5373 Good for you. You can see through the hypocrisy.
@@bloodybones63 the lies are endless
Another weird example was northern Alabama wanted in 1860 to join the union but pro confederate snuff this movement supporting succession...
hwæt…
Even by the warped and frankly weird Confederate secession arguments pre-war, only a state could secede, not a tiny unincorporated municipality. I'm sure they survived due to the protection of the local Democrat Party, the generally very sensitive political conditions in New York during much of the war, the weak and pro- Confederate unelected Andrew Johnson regime after the War and their utter obscurity and unimportance. Had they been in the front line state of Indiana, led by the no nonsense Governor Oliver P. Morton, the town fathers would very likely have been hung, imprisoned in a very nasty place for years or exiled to the Confederacy with the warning that if they ever showed their face again it would be a quick one way trip to the gallows. This kind of thing actually happened.
There were also southern towns (at least one in Alabama) who voted tnot commit treason and then provided whole cavalry units to the US Army.
Which would mean that they did commit treason - against the Confederacy.
@@keittkatranch5167 Which they never joined... - so how´s that possible??
@@keittkatranch5167 well being that the confederacy were traitors, for the love of slavery.
@@cjgm12 They did - when their state governments voted to join the CSA.
2:03: Not only did you mispronounce Staten Island, but you also misspelled Manhattan. Makes me wonder how much else you got wrong, and if you really know anything about what you pontificate about?
I still don't understand why it's called a civil war when the South was trying to form its own country. For that matter, NEVER in my 40 years of asking the question has it ever been explained to me what the CSA's strategy was for winning the war or what its postwar plan for the USA was.
The CSA had hoped for an amicable divorce. When war proved inevitable, it hoped to make the war costly enough for the North that Lincoln would sue for peace. Both Southern invasions of the North -- Antietam and Gettysburg -- were meant to threaten major cities between Pennsylvania and Washington, D.C. and encourage Northerners to demand their government make peace. The CSA had no postwar plan for the "USA" -- each would be its own separate country. Had secession been allowed to proceed without armed conflict, the two nations should have been able to form as good of relations as the USA had with Canada. Of course, the South would have had no reason to believe the North would ever return runaway slaves. Peace might have eroded that institution within a decade without something like 700,000 deaths.
"Civil War" -- and Lincoln's "the rebellion" -- were Northern labels for the War for Southern Independence. They reflected Lincoln's view that there was no such thing as the Confederate States of America. The Southerners were just Americans who were unlawfully revolting against the only valid government.
@@JonJaeden ok that makes sense, they didn't expect to defeat the Union forces outright
@@MrTaxiRob No. They just wanted their independence.
@@JonJaeden so instead of "civil war" or the super corny-sounding "war between the States" it was an actual war for independence just like I always thought. Thanks.
@@JonJaeden "war of secession" is absolutely accurate
Look into the Free State of Winston in North Alabama and the 1st Alabama UNION Cavalry Regiment.
New York Rebels > New York City lol
As a Long Islander, I would very much like to see New York City declare itself an independent nation and leave the rest of New York state alone. Just about all the problems in our state can be traced to New York city, particularly Manhatten.
The fact that you said "the democrat party" is very funny to me as an American. The reason is that it is typically only republicans who call them that and they prefer to be known as the "democratic party
Literally the same thing
@@chasem4183 It literally means the same thing but it is almost exclusively used by people who dislike the democratic party as a derogatory term. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_%28epithet%29?wprov=sfla1
@@Kire1120 definitely not taking you serious with a wikipedia link. If you think that's derogatory you're just dense. Meanwhile republicans just get called racist for being republican. (I'm not republican)
@@chasem4183 lol. I am not at all a left winger or a democratic partizan. I am only telling you what democrats tend to think of the term.
It's a subtly of the English language. The "-ic" ending turns the noun "Democrat" into the adjective "Democratic". On the other hand "Republican" is both the noun and adjective form of that word.
But you are right to point out that often it is more important to know how real people use words than it is to know their formal meanings.
But now there's only one last considered City and all the entire world located in Brazil called Americana 1865 after the war was over some actually moved to Brazil over 22,000 I believe went to Brazil the Brazilian emperor at the time allow them and one of them to stay with cheap land and citizenship and they made it to town called Americana
Based New York?????!!!!!! LoL
Imagine if this is represented in Victoria 3 and we can play as confederate new York and restore the confederacy. Probably a pipe dream but hey a man can pipe dream!
This reminds me of Winston, in Alabama, which rejected secession and remained loyal to the Union.
Secession was meant to bring peace, not war. The deep South seceded for four months and there was no war. So why the war ? Lincoln provoked the war when he called up troops to invade the South, he wanted to use the non-seceded upper Souths militia for this. Va, NC, Tn, and AK. had already voted to remain in the Union up to this moment, but the northern invasion plans changed all of this. Thus those four states seceded- over one half of the white Southern population. There would not have been a Civil War if those states had remained in the Union, it would have only lasted a few weeks, but Lincolns clumsy phrasing after Ft Sumter (an event he orchestrated. He celebrated the loss of the fort the day after it fell) so galvanized the prior fence sitting states into resisting federal over reach, as they saw it, that he thus made the war inevitable. If he had merely said that he was raising an army for the defense of the capital or such, the upper South would have not left the Union.
I now have respect for a small section of New York
Staten Island is pronounced "Stat-en" or "Stat'n", the E doesn't change the pronunciation of the A.
Long Live the confederacy!
You'll love it so much when you go work in tobacco and cotton fields for no or little pay!
@@Game_Hero almost like the universal minimum wage
@@KentuckySUS what universal minimum wage? Slave labour is nothing like a universal minimum wage like the one you find in Alaska, lol.
@@Game_Hero here's a good quote by both presidents, of the union and the confederacy. Lincoln the words: “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it” and to Lee the quote: “There is a terrible war coming and these young men who have never seen war cannot wait for it to happen, but I can tell you, I wish that I owned every slave in the south, for I would free them all to avoid this war.” They are accompanied by the caption, “Two quotes you won’t see in school.”
@@KentuckySUS So what? It was still about slavery and the slave economy, no dumb quotes with no source will change the horror of this.
Oh, this kid from Massachusetts most definitely knew that New York had Confederate sympathies. And that New York's commitment to independence from the British Crown was...eh...
I didn't know about Town Line, though.
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I personally insulted the First Officer of the HMS Glasgow when the ship was on a visit to Toronto. I was pro-Argentine and asked him if he was proud to belong to a service that started off as pirates.
Town Line does not appear to have been a part of New York City, but in Erie County in New York State. We seem to have conflicting understandings of this particular bit of historical lore.
This video has a misleading clickbaity title, is full of lazy mistakes, and is visually boring. Not good folks!
Can I just say as an Upstate New Yorker I really really wish this had happened 😓😓😓😓
Very nice ending in 46. In my home county of Van Zandt, Texas "The Free State" not so nice. After the vote to not join the Confederacy they hung quite a few people and just like that Rebels.
The Democrats: the ORIGINAL racists as evidenced in this video
The Indiana Legislature was to hold a vote to secede. It was such a high chance of happening, the Governor forcefully shut down the legislature to prevent the vote. Most Hoosiers aren’t aware of this history
Town Line is a tiny hamlet in Western New York. It's as far from New York City as Montreal...
Sorry Hilbert, but as far as I've read, Town Line isn't in New York City or even close to it. It's in Western Upstate New York, near Lake Erie.