Aron Talking to Birchy Likely the valley gasket has rusted out and poured water straight on top of the camshaft and into the oil. If you take the valley gasket off you'll be able to see the tracks of the water where its worn a line through. If it isn't that and merely a head gasket thats a straightforward job.
Hi Sheldon bad luck but water in the oil doesn't always mean the engine is toast, give it a oil and filter change before you scrap it then run it up to temp then drain the oil and see if there's any metal in it then as it sounded nice and healthy with no knocking!!?? Cheers 🥂
@@classic_britain Nevertheless, maybe all it needs is an oil/filter change and all will be well again - try some cheap oil first, and see what happens...
I have to agree with Paul. Try an oil and filter change first. Do a compression test, and find out what the oil pressure is when running. This will tell you if you have worn/broken big end bearings. The car has been standing for some time. The oil appeared to be clear. This suggests its likely condensation.. .. You may have further fitment/cost issues installing the 4.6. like will the auto box/ torque converter fit the 4.6? will the ex manifolds.
Hi Sheldon, all the way from Ireland. Tbh I wouldn't give up on the engine yet. Looking back ,it didn't look like a massive amount of water in there and it cleared out fairly quickly. It's possible that water got in the engine while it was laid up. Their wasn't any milky stuff coming out so what I would do is plum up your radiator and fill with water. Then run the engine with oil flush , then drain out the old and put in the new. Then see if your coolant dissappears over a week or so. It's worth a try and it may save you alot of money. In your previous video the engine sounded very good , and you didn't have any smoke. I hope this helps. All is not lost young man. The best of luck with your rare p6. Keep those wonderful videos coming 👍
You were saying it sounded fine. Head gaskets arent a terribly difficult job,why not try peoples suggestions rather than go straight for a 4.6 swap which isnt quite as simple@@classic_britain
Just a cautionary note....be careful about putting a 4.6 in...the rear end will probably crap itself. See if you can get a 3.9 efi unit and plonk carbs on it. Ideally a 9.35 to 1
As the car has been sitting for ages it's not uncommon for the head to warp and release coolant into the bore, you had the engine running and it sounds sweet so possibly no damage, dry her out and put new oil in, replace the head gaskets and start from there - the engine is potentially no worse for the experience. Good luck and yet another 10/10 video, DONT let this get you down, it's most likely going to be fine.
The holley is an OK idea ,On my Leyland 4.4 V8 I run a Edelbrock ASV which is 750 CFM on a Australian made manifold which looks a bit like a edelbrock T type. and it worked perfectly. I say"worked" because the car went under in a flood...
You changed the inlet manifold and the oil wasnt emulsified ,thats fresh and it ran and sounded ok.i think that engine is fine ,take off the inlet manifold and start there.!
Right you are: easier to swap an engine than repair all sorts of (often hidden) rust. Seems like someone might have put regular water in that engine at some time and it froze and broke or went through the cylinder liners.
You dont know where this water has come from. The engine appeared to run and sound well apart from some initial smoke - and an engine overfilled with watery oil would obviously smoke. For the cost of a gallon of oil and a filter Isnt it worth doing an oil change and running it for a bit? Nothing to lose?
When you replace the engine do an autopsy video on the ruined one - that will make a great video that should get you loads of views. I used to love taking engines apart - putting them back together not so much lol.
When was the last oil change? It's been sitting for how long? Do the easy and cheapest thing to do first, flush the engine with cheap oil to get rid of any debris like others have said. Refill and run it then check again. It might not be toast like you think. Get advice before doing anything drastic.
Think youre being too premature condemning the engine, that water looked like water not coolant, sacrifice a gallon of oil and run it up to temp properly and reassess, I have a suspicion that engine is ok, if so then I will be hounding you to put that injection back on as it should be😊, be happy to help down the phone, I think you have introduced this problem changing the inlet manifold possibly
It's OK buying another engine but then do you really know what your getting even if you see it running. My 3.5 didn't smoke had good oil pressure and run lovely but when I checked one of the main bearings they were shot.
Hi Sheldon. Manually pumping that stale old oil around and running it with no coolant is the worst thing to wreck an engine that's unknown and been stood for years. You've probably got broken rings and maybe even cracked, or slipped a liner. The engine will come out on its own, with the manifolds in place. Take off the bellhousing lower plate and remove the 4 torque converter bolts, leaving it on the gearbox. Dont distub any bolts near the starter ring gear, they're balance weights. Support and raise the gearbox front and pull the engine up and forward slightly, tilting it to allow it to clear the crossmember. You can re-jet the SU carbs to fuel up to 5+ litres. Get a leakdown and compression test done, drop the sump and check the bottom end bearings before you condemn it as scrap. The 4.6 is known to suffer similar liner problems.
I know we never ran the car for very long plus the oil we saw on the stick and in the engine did not look anything like that hence why we ran it. Luckily the 4.6 engine is very low millage just 27K from new and is a great runner so all I have to do is raise the fund and get it bought!
The Rover / Buick V8 was never designed to be a larger capacity, + Rover adopted a different casting method. The bigger you go, the thinner liners have more chance to slip or crack. Machining to fit top hat style lners is the fix. If it's been sat for years with no coolant, or even worse, with plain water, it can cause major problems. Have you looked into fitting Amal bike carbs ? I read an article many years ago where someone had fitted a full set of one per cylinder to a Rover V8. Can't remember how they did it, and if it incorporated the water flow from each end of the heads in a heated manifold. It was around the time people were fitting twin turbo kits.
@@brianwhittington5086 Yes you are right the bigger engines are prone to slipping linners! Bike carbs would be interesting but I am going to go for a boxer 4 SU manifold as they do flow alot better plus they look good to!
You really have no luck at all. But personally i dont know why you want to continually dick around with these ? You need something you can use as an every day car, which could be a classic. But these are 50 year's old now and as i have said before, most were unreliable when they were new, or just a couple of years old. I speak from experience. Mate they arent suddenly going to become ultra reliable now. You are just throwing money down the drain.
I thought oil and water mixture made a brown syrup. Are you entirely sure it is not gasoline? For the price of new oil and filter you could do a test run of the engine. I would not run an aluminum head engine for more than a minute without coolant.
It's not gasoline, gasoline would mix with the oil and you'd be surprised how long you can safely run an engine without coolant, particularly an aluminium one
What awful luck your having with V8 engines this year. At least you have a good excuse to swap in a 4.6 now, so every cloud has a silver lining and all that!
You really need to get a lock up, working on cars in the street is no fun. I took the engine and gearbox out of my series 1 P6B in one go using a four leg gantry and a chain hoist single handed. Lifted the engine and box clear of the front bonnet stay and then pushed the car back to lower it on the floor. This was in a back garden so I can imagine the grief you would have doing that in the road. Another problem, is the gearbox any good, how was the car delivered to it's present position?
Well, it could be worse! At least you know what you have to do now. REPLACE the engine, and keep the original for rebuild, if you ever feel like it. You can also clean up and inspect all the ancillaries while they are off. I see you got the grille! That looks good.
It may have not been drained before going in the car and may have been FUBAR years. Bad luck Sheldon, put the intake and carbs back on the SD1z I tbh would not trust the gearbox either sadly. Especially if it is from the same donor
Maybe time to let it go, or if you have funds rebuild it properly. Another engine is just other problems regardless of low mileage . Get it off the street 😂
I have to agree sadly. Think this p6 needs a new wiring loom. That current one looks like a fire waiting to happen.. Plus with the engine out it would be easier to do a re wire.
Just a thought, you really don’t know what condition a donor engine is. Regardless of whatever you are told in good faith, about mileage etc you only know if it’s a good donor is you see and hear it running, unless you get a warranty. Don’t get burnt again with a supposedly good engine unless you are absolutely 100% sure and have satisfied yourself that it’s a good ‘un. I’d be investigating the current engine a lot more before condemning it. Sometimes it can be a case of better the devil you know even if it requires machining work. You’re already talking of issues relating to exhaust, intake, carbs, and I guarantee there will be all manner of issues in addition to what you know already.
What destroyed the old engine in my p6 was the efi messing about and filling the crank case with fuel...so the previous owner had to replace the engine
Mate you had it running with the Rocker cover off and no emulsified oil, so pull and clean sump investigate the metal you find and go from there
Aron Talking to Birchy Likely the valley gasket has rusted out and poured water straight on top of the camshaft and into the oil. If you take the valley gasket off you'll be able to see the tracks of the water where its worn a line through. If it isn't that and merely a head gasket thats a straightforward job.
Going to do that right now!
Hi Sheldon bad luck but water in the oil doesn't always mean the engine is toast, give it a oil and filter change before you scrap it then run it up to temp then drain the oil and see if there's any metal in it then as it sounded nice and healthy with no knocking!!?? Cheers 🥂
Sadly there is a lot of metal in the oil.
@@classic_britain Nevertheless, maybe all it needs is an oil/filter change and all will be well again - try some cheap oil first, and see what happens...
I have to agree with Paul.
Try an oil and filter change first.
Do a compression test, and find out what the oil pressure is when running.
This will tell you if you have worn/broken big end bearings.
The car has been standing for some time. The oil appeared to be clear.
This suggests its likely condensation..
..
You may have further fitment/cost issues installing the 4.6. like will the auto box/ torque converter fit the 4.6?
will the ex manifolds.
Hi Sheldon, all the way from Ireland.
Tbh I wouldn't give up on the engine yet.
Looking back ,it didn't look like a massive amount of water in there and it cleared out fairly quickly.
It's possible that water got in the engine while it was laid up.
Their wasn't any milky stuff coming out so what I would do is plum up your radiator and fill with water. Then run the engine with oil flush , then drain out the old and put in the new.
Then see if your coolant dissappears over a week or so.
It's worth a try and it may save you alot of money.
In your previous video the engine sounded very good , and you didn't have any smoke.
I hope this helps.
All is not lost young man.
The best of luck with your rare p6.
Keep those wonderful videos coming 👍
The last time we ran it there was A TON of smoke out the back and it reved like crap s oi am 90% sure the head gaskets are gone.
You were saying it sounded fine.
Head gaskets arent a terribly difficult job,why not try peoples suggestions rather than go straight for a 4.6 swap which isnt quite as simple@@classic_britain
@@jasonburrows-tr2bd I am going to don't worry!
@@classic_britain All I recall was you saying how well it was running
Nice reliant kitten not seen one for some time
Just a cautionary note....be careful about putting a 4.6 in...the rear end will probably crap itself. See if you can get a 3.9 efi unit and plonk carbs on it. Ideally a 9.35 to 1
Awesome to meet you today Sheldon, I bought the famous stickers 🎉 cheerse and my buddy Adam cant wait to cameo 💪
haha yeah you to!
Did you say the radiator has an oil cooler built-in ? If so check its not leaking water into the oil from the rad
As the car has been sitting for ages it's not uncommon for the head to warp and release coolant into the bore, you had the engine running and it sounds sweet so possibly no damage, dry her out and put new oil in, replace the head gaskets and start from there - the engine is potentially no worse for the experience. Good luck and yet another 10/10 video, DONT let this get you down, it's most likely going to be fine.
I reckon i know where the water in the oil came from.the inlet manifold
The holley is an OK idea ,On my Leyland 4.4 V8 I run a Edelbrock ASV which is 750 CFM on a Australian made manifold which looks a bit like a edelbrock T type. and it worked perfectly. I say"worked" because the car went under in a flood...
You changed the inlet manifold and the oil wasnt emulsified ,thats fresh and it ran and sounded ok.i think that engine is fine ,take off the inlet manifold and start there.!
It's not with all the metal in the oil!
Sheldon I’m sorry but I really think you’re barking up the wrong tree changing that engine
I am not going to don't worry do you have Faecbook?
So do I
Right you are: easier to swap an engine than repair all sorts of (often hidden) rust. Seems like someone might have put regular water in that engine at some time and it froze and broke or went through the cylinder liners.
That's horrific, just go to the pub 🍻
You dont know where this water has come from. The engine appeared to run and sound well apart from some initial smoke - and an engine overfilled with watery oil would obviously smoke. For the cost of a gallon of oil and a filter Isnt it worth doing an oil change and running it for a bit? Nothing to lose?
The thing is it's burning the oil for sure and not only that there is alot of metal in that oil so the engine is on the way out.
When you replace the engine do an autopsy video on the ruined one - that will make a great video that should get you loads of views. I used to love taking engines apart - putting them back together not so much lol.
Change the oil and filter Sheldon. Take it from there mate 😉
When was the last oil change? It's been sitting for how long? Do the easy and cheapest thing to do first, flush the engine with cheap oil to get rid of any debris like others have said. Refill and run it then check again. It might not be toast like you think. Get advice before doing anything drastic.
Think youre being too premature condemning the engine, that water looked like water not coolant, sacrifice a gallon of oil and run it up to temp properly and reassess, I have a suspicion that engine is ok, if so then I will be hounding you to put that injection back on as it should be😊, be happy to help down the phone, I think you have introduced this problem changing the inlet manifold possibly
It's OK buying another engine but then do you really know what your getting even if you see it running.
My 3.5 didn't smoke had good oil pressure and run lovely but when I checked one of the main bearings they were shot.
Probably regularly serviced by Mr Magoo😅
That video of the drain plug coming out was heartbreaking. Water, a plug of some sort and a light brown froth. I feel for you 💔
Hi Sheldon. Manually pumping that stale old oil around and running it with no coolant is the worst thing to wreck an engine that's unknown and been stood for years. You've probably got broken rings and maybe even cracked, or slipped a liner. The engine will come out on its own, with the manifolds in place. Take off the bellhousing lower plate and remove the 4 torque converter bolts, leaving it on the gearbox. Dont distub any bolts near the starter ring gear, they're balance weights. Support and raise the gearbox front and pull the engine up and forward slightly, tilting it to allow it to clear the crossmember. You can re-jet the SU carbs to fuel up to 5+ litres. Get a leakdown and compression test done, drop the sump and check the bottom end bearings before you condemn it as scrap. The 4.6 is known to suffer similar liner problems.
I know we never ran the car for very long plus the oil we saw on the stick and in the engine did not look anything like that hence why we ran it.
Luckily the 4.6 engine is very low millage just 27K from new and is a great runner so all I have to do is raise the fund and get it bought!
The Rover / Buick V8 was never designed to be a larger capacity, + Rover adopted a different casting method. The bigger you go, the thinner liners have more chance to slip or crack. Machining to fit top hat style lners is the fix. If it's been sat for years with no coolant, or even worse, with plain water, it can cause major problems. Have you looked into fitting Amal bike carbs ? I read an article many years ago where someone had fitted a full set of one per cylinder to a Rover V8. Can't remember how they did it, and if it incorporated the water flow from each end of the heads in a heated manifold. It was around the time people were fitting twin turbo kits.
@@brianwhittington5086 Yes you are right the bigger engines are prone to slipping linners! Bike carbs would be interesting but I am going to go for a boxer 4 SU manifold as they do flow alot better plus they look good to!
Can't say I agree with much of that
@@brianwhittington5086amal probably make the worse bike carbs out there!
At least the Seaguls are sympathetic 😅
You really have no luck at all. But personally i dont know why you want to continually dick around with these ? You need something you can use as an every day car, which could be a classic. But these are 50 year's old now and as i have said before, most were unreliable when they were new, or just a couple of years old. I speak from experience. Mate they arent suddenly going to become ultra reliable now. You are just throwing money down the drain.
Head gasket or a cylinder liner
Indeed
Don’t think so
I thought oil and water mixture made a brown syrup. Are you entirely sure it is not gasoline? For the price of new oil and filter you could do a test run of the engine. I would not run an aluminum head engine for more than a minute without coolant.
It's not gasoline, gasoline would mix with the oil and you'd be surprised how long you can safely run an engine without coolant, particularly an aluminium one
@@joeedwards9721 Oh... it seems I was right after all. I guess my 40 years of working on cars does mean something.
Can you just take the sump off and check some bearings before junking the engine
I will be yes but there toast the amount of metal in the oil is unreal
That is sad. 😪
The water looked crystal clear, like rain water
Not coolant water... 🤔
Yeah it's not good at all no idea how the water got in there but the metal bits seal the engines fate it need a rebuild
Opportunitys arise remove engine rebuild it paint engine bay a months work but like you said it's money tnstl be the drawback
The engine has had a paint and its really good not sure weather to re build this or replace it.
The engine bay and inner wings are supposed to be satin black.
@@johnmoruzzi7236 And now there gloss =)
What awful luck your having with V8 engines this year.
At least you have a good excuse to swap in a 4.6 now, so every cloud has a silver lining and all that!
Sheldon, Sad news indeed...Did the brown one sell ?
No
You really need to get a lock up, working on cars in the street is no fun. I took the engine and gearbox out of my series 1 P6B in one go using a four leg gantry and a chain hoist single handed. Lifted the engine and box clear of the front bonnet stay and then pushed the car back to lower it on the floor. This was in a back garden so I can imagine the grief you would have doing that in the road. Another problem, is the gearbox any good, how was the car delivered to it's present position?
I know I have been looking for a lockup for years now sadly there hard to find.
Need to take out a second mortgage to go Tesco's nowadays 😮
Surely the guy who sold you the car knew this??
Probably why it was sitting there for years unfinished
No Reg sold it to the guy who I bought it off who never had it running so there is no way he knew.
Well, it could be worse! At least you know what you have to do now. REPLACE the engine, and keep the original for rebuild, if you ever feel like it. You can also clean up and inspect all the ancillaries while they are off. I see you got the grille! That looks good.
Might re build it yet not sure!
It may have not been drained before going in the car and may have been FUBAR years. Bad luck Sheldon, put the intake and carbs back on the SD1z I tbh would not trust the gearbox either sadly. Especially if it is from the same donor
Yeah you could not tell from the oil in the top of the engine it was going to be like this!
Sums up everything about you and Rovers.
How is this my fault? It was like this when I got the car!
Maybe time to let it go, or if you have funds rebuild it properly. Another engine is just other problems regardless of low mileage . Get it off the street 😂
I have to agree sadly.
Think this p6 needs a new wiring loom.
That current one looks like a fire waiting to happen..
Plus with the engine out it would be easier to do a re wire.
Sell it
No
Just a thought, you really don’t know what condition a donor engine is. Regardless of whatever you are told in good faith, about mileage etc you only know if it’s a good donor is you see and hear it running, unless you get a warranty. Don’t get burnt again with a supposedly good engine unless you are absolutely 100% sure and have satisfied yourself that it’s a good ‘un. I’d be investigating the current engine a lot more before condemning it. Sometimes it can be a case of better the devil you know even if it requires machining work. You’re already talking of issues relating to exhaust, intake, carbs, and I guarantee there will be all manner of issues in addition to what you know already.
@@davidw8759 Yes David you are right and I have seen it running plus there is proof of the millage so its not much of a problem 🙂
What destroyed the old engine in my p6 was the efi messing about and filling the crank case with fuel...so the previous owner had to replace the engine
Everyones buys a lemon in their lifetime.
Yeah it's a really nice car just been sat a long time
@classic_britain it's a shame really, it's such a lovely car.I hope you have better luck in future endeavours.