@@DolphynsDeck I have comments on a few of @Ajakes videos, one of which was about how Sonic’s level design teaches players to think like Sonic, trust your instincts and look out for opportunities.
Yeah, as Sonic you're just kind of rolling around at the speed of sound, blazing to victory off of raw speed and the way fate will throw you a bone as both a fool and a hero. As Shadow you're the ultimate lifeform struggling to live up to your own hype, trying to keep all the plates of your speed, chaos powers, and doom powers spinning at once to pull ahead. It's kind of amazing how well it coheres.
Repent of your sins. Praise Father God, The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit! He loves you more than you can comprehend! Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and Repent of your sins! The Lord Jesus Christ died for you on the cross so you can have a chance to be saved if you Truly Repent of your sins to him, Accept him as your Lord and Savior, be a true follower of him, do the will of Father God, Believe in Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, have Genuine Faith in him, live for him, pray to him, spread his word, read his word, and give your life to him. Jesus Christ was beaten, spat on, had a crown of thorns on his head that hurt his scalp! He had to alternate between arching his back and using his legs to be able to breath! He died so we can have a chance to be saved! God Bless you, your families, friends, and enemies, and have a Blessed day!!🙏🏾✝️✝️✝️🙏🏾 🙏🏾✝️
I like the idea of Shadow being more controlled with his speed than to Sonic who utilizes his speed as a power tool. Essentially, chaos control vs. Frontiers spin dash.
It's pretty fitting with their personality, too! Sonic is known for being chaotic and more improvisational, so him use practically anything as a booster via the homing dash is a good representation of his quick-thinking and freedom-loving nature. Shadow is more reserved, and far more mission-focused. It only makes sense that Shadow would have more 'linear' movement tech from Spear gliding (Momentum Preservation on a single button) and the Quickstep slide (Literally just slide-strafing) to Doom Wings (straight forward flight). Oh, and Chaos Control (Literally just stop the timer for a few seconds).
Repent of your sins. Praise Father God, The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit! He loves you more than you can comprehend! Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and Repent of your sins! The Lord Jesus Christ died for you on the cross so you can have a chance to be saved if you Truly Repent of your sins to him, Accept him as your Lord and Savior, be a true follower of him, do the will of Father God, Believe in Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, have Genuine Faith in him, live for him, pray to him, spread his word, read his word, and give your life to him. Jesus Christ was beaten, spat on, had a crown of thorns on his head that hurt his scalp! He had to alternate between arching his back and using his legs to be able to breath! He died so we can have a chance to be saved! God Bless you, your families, friends, and enemies, and have a Blessed day!!🙏🏾✝️✝️✝️🙏🏾 🙏🏾✝️😊
This is very in-character. The adventurous Sonic would rather bounce off of enemies and use his environment to move as quickly and as *stylishly* as possible and have fun. The goal-oriented Shadow would rather use his more unstable body’s chaos energy and rely on his own power to move as quickly and *efficiently* as possible and complete his mission. They both have the same strengths and abilities outside of Frontiers and Generations, but Sonic knows how to take opportunities and not just force his way through obstacles. He’s not *much* faster than Shadow, but he’s more experienced.
I'm adoring how creative everyone's comments are. For me it was always about the concept. Not so much the actual gameplay. I love that we can infer more about them this way. It speaks to their dynamic so well.
Repent of your sins. Praise Father God, The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit! He loves you more than you can comprehend! Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and Repent of your sins! The Lord Jesus Christ died for you on the cross so you can have a chance to be saved if you Truly Repent of your sins to him, Accept him as your Lord and Savior, be a true follower of him, do the will of Father God, Believe in Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, have Genuine Faith in him, live for him, pray to him, spread his word, read his word, and give your life to him. Jesus Christ was beaten, spat on, had a crown of thorns on his head that hurt his scalp! He had to alternate between arching his back and using his legs to be able to breath! He died so we can have a chance to be saved! God Bless you, your families, friends, and enemies, and have a Blessed day!!🙏🏾✝️✝️✝️🙏🏾 🙏🏾✝️
Repent of your sins. Praise Father God, The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit! He loves you more than you can comprehend! Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and Repent of your sins! The Lord Jesus Christ died for you on the cross so you can have a chance to be saved if you Truly Repent of your sins to him, Accept him as your Lord and Savior, be a true follower of him, do the will of Father God, Believe in Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, have Genuine Faith in him, live for him, pray to him, spread his word, read his word, and give your life to him. Jesus Christ was beaten, spat on, had a crown of thorns on his head that hurt his scalp! He had to alternate between arching his back and using his legs to be able to breath! He died so we can have a chance to be saved! God Bless you, your families, friends, and enemies, and have a Blessed day!!🙏🏾✝️✝️✝️🙏🏾 🙏🏾✝️
This is my opinion on the whole “who would win“ debate when it comes to sonic and shadow. I firmly believe that they are truly equal to one another and the winner will always be determined by outside factors. For example every time sonic has beaten shadow he has more chaos emeralds than him, and the same can be said for shadow. Anytime neither of them have an emerald their fight is pretty even. So in a fair fight it will always be a tieSince any other time the fight either ends preemptively or there’s an outside factor that made it unfair However there is a big difference between fighting and racing I feel like similar rules would apply here seeing as their strength and speed are allegedly equal
Fun Fact: Sonic can use Chaos Control too. In Sonic Adventure 2, in the Sonic vs Shadow Boss Fight on the ARK, Sonic says “I’ll use your technique, CHAOS CONTROL!” When you get to far behind when fighting Shadow.
He *can* use it, he just doesn't like using it unless he absolutely has to. It's a last resort. This is probably why it has never been part of his standard moveset in gameplay.
I like that the Homing Dash and Spear Glides are glitches in the games that were never patched out. Sonic Team even acknowledged the Homing Dash skill and made it official but nothing yet about Spear Glides. Overall, both games are fun when speedrunning levels
@@DolphynsDeck Oh yeah! Speed Strats! It feels like it's been so long... (wow, thanks for reminding me of that series' existence, lol) Also, Evan (or @/Mardiculous), former "broadcast host" at Tails' Channel, was the narrator voice for the Speed Strats episodes. I'd say Speed Strats was a pretty charming explainer series!
I think it was especially nice for people who don't know how to find nicher speedrunning content on the current internet. Search engines are pretty good at distracting you from stuff that's actually relevant to your search. I wonder if the Frontiers videos will be responsible for inspiring the next gen of speedrunners lmao.
That's why Frontiers is special to me. It seems like the first time Sonic Team has accepted they can't achieve the level of polish they once had and just embrace the janky physics from Forces as part of the game's design
What I love about these kind of mods is shadow generations and sonic frontiers are so similar yet so different and how they use the same engine. So it’s a faithful re-creation of Frontieres but there’s an element of “spot the difference” between them
Everything down to the models, materials and shaders used is the same which usually isn't the case in level imports. It's high quality and fascinating that way! But obviously it lacks the cyber glitches Sonic has.
I LOVE to see not only you continuing to cover frontiers, but also that it still has an active community, even though most of the internet just says Shadow gens is better frontiers controls
Frontiers and Shadow Gens are just two cakes I take slices from occasionally. Not stopping until the mods stop! Frontiers is easily my favorite game ever made. I definitely think Frontiers has the better open-zone movement tho.
This is the exact type of video i've been looking for man, thanks so much for taking the time to make it!! Presentations was top tier too. Can we maybe get a split-screen for the next one. Would love to see a boost comparison side by side, almost like a race. Would also be cool to see a o doom wings version for Shadow!
Thanks for the feedback :3 I'll try to experiment next time! I'm basically waiting on a compatibility update for Eternal Highway but there's plenty of stuff to go over. Extra ty for pointing out the presentation :)
Honestly I had the level imports downloaded in a few minutes of research and thankfully had a lot of Frontiers speedrunning knowledge already. I'd say it took 2 hours to figure out Shadow's routes though!
I believe it will! Why else would they talk about future resolutions with Rouge and Shadow? Could be a crackpot theory but they tease Victoria and we know how profitable Shadow is now lol I think Shadow changes the gameplay formula in such a meaningful way with Chaos Control. I'd love to see him appear more.
that's so validating!!! thank you, I have a few other ideas similar to this I'd like to do too :) I just love thinking about how I can compare the lore to the gameplay.
This video is an absolute masterpiece for Sonic fans! The way Shadow's character is brought to life using Sonic Frontiers animations is mind-blowing and fits his persona perfectly. It’s not just about the speed it’s about the rivalry, and this setup truly captures the essence of that iconic question: who’s faster, Sonic or Shadow? The use of mods and smooth transitions makes it feel like an official crossover we never knew we needed. Watching them race and clash with this level of detail is a treat for anyone who loves the series.
I kind of like this considering I think it makes sense that Sonic is a bit better at improvising with his environment like what you can do with the homing dash and Shadow needs to plan things out and be more thoughtful with the use of his wings and chaos control.
This was a perfect video🔥it’s actually crazy that the gameplay makes complete sense for how they are, on paper I thought this was gonna be a shadow ability diff but I didn’t realize there was OP air boosts in frontiers or just super easy ways to skip around you are actually insane at speed running 😱 it gave me a new appreciation for how busted they made sonic in frontiers even when compared to newer mechanics
I adore this comment so much, you mentioned everything I loved about how this video came out. I really want to incite creativity with my coverage and I'm so happy you get it :) I'm flattered
I think sonic would win the race, but shadow has chaos control and sonic doesn’t,which I think isn’t fair, so I think later you should do the same thing but with no chaos control
I love the differences between the two of them, Sonic focusing on going nuts with his spin/momentum mechanics while Shadow instead gets awarded on the game by being aggresive against enemies like on Shadow 05 It's AMAZING, both characters still are focused on speed but the person controling them is encouraged to play them diferently and with high skill expression, P06 also worked with this idea, it's a banger formula
Shadow: Hm. Well, Sonic, you set the rules. Best two out of three. And I just beat you! Sonic: Huh, what was that? I just got back from beating you Chemdical High-Plant time. Shadow: ... You what?
There is zero narrative reason as to why Shadow can't do the homing dash lol. He has a regular homing attack that he just doesn't use in Shadow Gens. ALSO Shadow is unwilling to use his doom powers against sonic, as he only wants to win on equal footing. Otherwise it's not really winning. They seem to share this trait, as Sonic would SMOKE Jet if Sonic just raced him on foot. But Sonic wouldn't call that winning.
This makes me want an online Sonic boost game where it’s just racing with the current cast of hedgehog engine 2 characters: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Shadow. I would love to race with my friends in stages from past Sonic games. I could also see a co-op mode where 4 players where giht enemies and bosses with more health, using movesets from Frontiers or Shadow’s from ‘06. They could add new characters over time too like Rouge, Silver, Blaze, Espio, or even a Classic Sonic that would have the Sonic Adventure moveset
Hehehe this is why I really want to support games like Sonic Rumble and Sonic CrossWorlds because I want something on the scale of Robo Blast with the HE2 movesets/graphics. I think it could be my favorite game ever conceived. There is a multiplayer mod in dev for Frontiers with PVP and everything! I'd love to see people port Shadow's moveset from Gens to Frontiers as well.
@DolphynsDeck i feel that defeats the purpose of the video then, feels like a weird restriction to have if you're trying to compare which character completes which level faster.
Now this raises the question, would it have been a closer ending if Shadow didn't use chaos control and/or Sonic didn't just lose all acceleration after hitting a wall?
How different would these times be if you didn’t use any speedrun tech and played both games how the devs intended? Would it be super close or super different between sonic and shadows times? Also no chaos control, If you tried to keep both movesets as similar as possible.
If I'm not allowed to use powerboost I can see Shadow winning. He has better handling and less rebound on his homing attack. If I can use powerboost/max speed on Sonic, he wins based on boost quality.
@@DolphynsDeck very interesting! I think this idea is really cool, to try to find out how two different characters can compete on the same stages. Maybe you can try Tails, Amy, Knuckles in cyberspace too? Not really against shadow but against sonic from the same game. There’s so many variables involved like cuz each character has skill tree abilities and speedrun tech. But maybe it would be a very underwhelming experiment if certain characters simply cannot interact with stage traversal objects properly… and ideally this would use the “open zone physics and moveset and everything override the cyberspace ones” mod.
I guess for a rematch it's better to utilize sonic's spindash and get rid of the slingshot/homing dash instead. What with it being a main part of his kit and all
Ngl the amount of times I've tried to homing cancel in shadow generations because of the amount of hours I have in Frontiers The lack of spindash got it 😂
Hey this is off topic from the video but I saw the video about the reanimated frontiers mod then I found out Moshi also made reanimated Shadow gens. so maybe you can check it out. (It’s 5% in development btw)
I really hope someone makes a mod that allows you to actually FIGHT sonic in his frontiers engine. One of the most disappointing things about the game was not getting a sonic boss fight so I hope it happens
Spin Dash has a longer initial speed than boost and allows you to pop into the air very easily, allowing you to skip things that aren't possible or intended for otherwise. At least with magnet dashing there's some risk involved. There isn't a proper way to race them besides placing them on the same tracks. There isn't an open zone hub port for either game. Besides, Shadow is very slow in the White Space compared to Sonic on the islands.
@@DolphynsDeck Sorry i took so long to respond! When you think about it i was kinda wrong...Apparently shadow wasn't trying in SXSG to trick sonic and i have 2 reasons to say that!1.the doom powers are OP. 2.Shadow is the GOAT! [and so is sonic unleashed]hehe
Shadow kinda let him win. Decided not to use his powers, and then stayed down when the emerald was "snatched" Ultimately he won even, because he kept the emerald despite Sonic being a massive shit head in the cutscene.
He definitely held back but Sonic absolutely caught him off guard when he hesitated. That's the nature of fighting speedsters - you need focus 100% of the time and snap decisions. I think he genuinely lost and the fake emerald was always his plan B. If he wanted to get hit he probably wouldn't have been surprised Either way, I believe Doom Shadow could beat Sonic it just wasn't the case here
why fight at all if you had the fake emerald the entire time? why not just hand sonic the fake? and go on about your mission? i like to think their rivalry took over, and shadow couldn't pass up the opportunity to fight sonic
@@DolphynsDeckmaybe so, but Sonic has often beaten opponents that often outmatch him. Beating a Chaos Empowered Emerl who has 4000 years of experience and the abilities of all his friends is the best example
You know.... if Shadow got a FULL game's worth of upgrades instead of 5hours dlc/side game... he might get enough tricks to make up the difference ;) Just sayin
Well considering Doom Shadow doesn't have any combat besides Blast I'd have to say Sonic is stronger by default. Sonic also has 3 super forms and Shadow only has his pseudo form with Wing. Even if we're just considering lore and not gameplay, I feel Shadow could hold his own but might be overwhelmed by the sheer variety of moves Sonic has. I'm not too sure if Shadow would power up like he did against Devil Doom, but if he did he could probably win.
I guess using chaos control for shadow not the best idea for comparing speed it will be better if you enable timer while using chaos control at least shadow will benefit of chaos control for refilling boost
Thing is, Shadow wouldn't keep up as well without pausing the timer. I wanted to include that as a valid rule because it's how people actually play time attack in this game.
@ Cannon or not mainline or not it’s still a part of Sonic. So it still matters. I don’t even care for sonic boom or shadow that much but if it was made by Sega and it was released to the public it still counts
Neither of these are faster, the true fastest person. Is Sonic in Sonic Generations (not like out of all Sonic’s) His speed is so fast he boosts off of cliffs like it’s no big deal! 3:43 arguably the better Sonic model, I hate the short spines.
OOH great idea! I know just how to measure it too. Writing this down... Now I gotta decide whether or not to ban Tails' cyclone... Maybe I'll include it but keep it grounded?
@DolphynsDeck make it be like a different "character" you know Have amy knuckles and tails, and then tails with cyclone.. I think thats fair cause cyclone would be interesting to see amd something unique for tails and definitly what makes him special But at the same time it would be nice to have the category for tails without external upgrades, just his own natural power I think this is the best
Well wait, cyclone can only be used with max rings... So its not something you could use normally (cause no level has 999 rings) So none of the other characters would have too his powerups like the amy vehicle or knuckles infinite glide Sooooo Idk, you could have just standar characters or at max power idk... That somethings you would have to decide xD
Yeah well Shadow only takes 2 minutes to get through Chaos Island while Sonic takes 2 hours hurr durr. Nah but seriously, what about importing Shadow's stages into Cyberspace?
I would flip the level imports if I could! These three levels are currently the only shared ports between Sonic and Shadow that work. I'll make another race video when there's ports for Frontiers.
Do you think it’ll be possible to get OG Gen’s levels imported into Frontiers/Shadow Gens? I feel like those levels would feel longer cuz the boost in HE1 games is a lot faster than HE2 games
I've seen some people attempt to port Planet Wisp I believe. It's possible just like anything, but maybe not worth it in the eyes of some modders? Either way I'd love to see Sonic Gens levels ported to Shadow Gens.
Open Zone's Power Boost is actually faster than Generations boost. Frontier's Spin Dash as well is faster than Gens' boost. In CyberSpace, using Spindash shoots sonic into max speed with Open Zone physics overriding the cyberspace ones whereas the Power Boost in cyberspace is only a slightly faster vanilla cyberspace boost. The Final Horizon Cyberspace levels let Sonic use his Open Zone physics in the levels regardless. ( Minus the speedometer level which locks his speed into separate gears. )
@@dragnjames2190 oooh so THAT’S why the spindash is so broken in cyberspace lmao. But that’s interesting to hear, that the power boost in the open zone is faster than Gens boost. It honestly doesn’t feel that way. Unleashed and Gens feel way faster than Frontiers and Shadow
@@Slimeonian That's all because of the camera. It's not nearly close enough to Sonic to mimick the illusion of speed in Gens & Unleashed. I THINK Frontiers Sonic comes very close to surpassing max speed upgraded Unleashed Sonic but falls just a bit short. Definitely faster than Generations Sonic even with speed up and acceleration skills equipped. And much faster than base Generations Sonic and base Unleashed Sonic. ( As long as they aren't abusing M speed/ Drift speed or Quickstep speed lol )
So, Sonic uses more speed, Shadow uses more tact. This actually makes sense with their characters
WE LOVE when the gameplay reflects the writing 👌👌👌
@@DolphynsDeck
I have comments on a few of @Ajakes videos, one of which was about how Sonic’s level design teaches players to think like Sonic, trust your instincts and look out for opportunities.
@@God-xd1wrajakes viewer i see
Goated 🗿
Yeah, as Sonic you're just kind of rolling around at the speed of sound, blazing to victory off of raw speed and the way fate will throw you a bone as both a fool and a hero. As Shadow you're the ultimate lifeform struggling to live up to your own hype, trying to keep all the plates of your speed, chaos powers, and doom powers spinning at once to pull ahead. It's kind of amazing how well it coheres.
Repent of your sins. Praise Father God, The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit! He loves you more than you can comprehend! Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and Repent of your sins! The Lord Jesus Christ died for you on the cross so you can have a chance to be saved if you Truly Repent of your sins to him, Accept him as your Lord and Savior, be a true follower of him, do the will of Father God, Believe in Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, have Genuine Faith in him, live for him, pray to him, spread his word, read his word, and give your life to him. Jesus Christ was beaten, spat on, had a crown of thorns on his head that hurt his scalp! He had to alternate between arching his back and using his legs to be able to breath! He died so we can have a chance to be saved! God Bless you, your families, friends, and enemies, and have a Blessed day!!🙏🏾✝️✝️✝️🙏🏾 🙏🏾✝️
I like the idea of Shadow being more controlled with his speed than to Sonic who utilizes his speed as a power tool. Essentially, chaos control vs. Frontiers spin dash.
Shadow needs to gather resources whereas Sonic needs perfect execution. It's actually pretty balanced aside from a few physics values.
It's pretty fitting with their personality, too!
Sonic is known for being chaotic and more improvisational, so him use practically anything as a booster via the homing dash is a good representation of his quick-thinking and freedom-loving nature.
Shadow is more reserved, and far more mission-focused. It only makes sense that Shadow would have more 'linear' movement tech from Spear gliding (Momentum Preservation on a single button) and the Quickstep slide (Literally just slide-strafing) to Doom Wings (straight forward flight). Oh, and Chaos Control (Literally just stop the timer for a few seconds).
Repent of your sins. Praise Father God, The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit! He loves you more than you can comprehend! Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and Repent of your sins! The Lord Jesus Christ died for you on the cross so you can have a chance to be saved if you Truly Repent of your sins to him, Accept him as your Lord and Savior, be a true follower of him, do the will of Father God, Believe in Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, have Genuine Faith in him, live for him, pray to him, spread his word, read his word, and give your life to him. Jesus Christ was beaten, spat on, had a crown of thorns on his head that hurt his scalp! He had to alternate between arching his back and using his legs to be able to breath! He died so we can have a chance to be saved! God Bless you, your families, friends, and enemies, and have a Blessed day!!🙏🏾✝️✝️✝️🙏🏾 🙏🏾✝️😊
As Sonic once said, "Hey! That's not his speed! He's using the chaos emerald to warp!
Sonic is faster.
Sonic is speedier.
Shadow is faster.
Noone banned chaos emerald powers
This is very in-character. The adventurous Sonic would rather bounce off of enemies and use his environment to move as quickly and as *stylishly* as possible and have fun. The goal-oriented Shadow would rather use his more unstable body’s chaos energy and rely on his own power to move as quickly and *efficiently* as possible and complete his mission.
They both have the same strengths and abilities outside of Frontiers and Generations, but Sonic knows how to take opportunities and not just force his way through obstacles. He’s not *much* faster than Shadow, but he’s more experienced.
I'm adoring how creative everyone's comments are. For me it was always about the concept. Not so much the actual gameplay. I love that we can infer more about them this way. It speaks to their dynamic so well.
Repent of your sins. Praise Father God, The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit! He loves you more than you can comprehend! Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and Repent of your sins! The Lord Jesus Christ died for you on the cross so you can have a chance to be saved if you Truly Repent of your sins to him, Accept him as your Lord and Savior, be a true follower of him, do the will of Father God, Believe in Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, have Genuine Faith in him, live for him, pray to him, spread his word, read his word, and give your life to him. Jesus Christ was beaten, spat on, had a crown of thorns on his head that hurt his scalp! He had to alternate between arching his back and using his legs to be able to breath! He died so we can have a chance to be saved! God Bless you, your families, friends, and enemies, and have a Blessed day!!🙏🏾✝️✝️✝️🙏🏾 🙏🏾✝️
I fear not the hedgehog who knows 10000 spin attacks, but the hedgehog who practices 1 spin attack 10000 times
Lmaoo
This perfectly sums up the Ultimate Life Form vs Just a Chili Dog lover
“Wait he’s not using his speed. HES USING CHAOS CONTROL TO MOVE AROUND”
beautiful reference
*"wait, he's not using his speed, he's using the chaos emerald to warp"
Repent of your sins. Praise Father God, The Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit! He loves you more than you can comprehend! Accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and Repent of your sins! The Lord Jesus Christ died for you on the cross so you can have a chance to be saved if you Truly Repent of your sins to him, Accept him as your Lord and Savior, be a true follower of him, do the will of Father God, Believe in Father God, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit, have Genuine Faith in him, live for him, pray to him, spread his word, read his word, and give your life to him. Jesus Christ was beaten, spat on, had a crown of thorns on his head that hurt his scalp! He had to alternate between arching his back and using his legs to be able to breath! He died so we can have a chance to be saved! God Bless you, your families, friends, and enemies, and have a Blessed day!!🙏🏾✝️✝️✝️🙏🏾 🙏🏾✝️
My internal dialogue was echoing the word "warp."
This is fun.
Shadow needing to use his time stopping to even contest Sonic's raw speed is just awesome.
You see the vision 🙏
This is my opinion on the whole “who would win“ debate when it comes to sonic and shadow. I firmly believe that they are truly equal to one another and the winner will always be determined by outside factors. For example every time sonic has beaten shadow he has more chaos emeralds than him, and the same can be said for shadow. Anytime neither of them have an emerald their fight is pretty even. So in a fair fight it will always be a tieSince any other time the fight either ends preemptively or there’s an outside factor that made it unfair
However there is a big difference between fighting and racing I feel like similar rules would apply here seeing as their strength and speed are allegedly equal
I believe Sonic and Shadow's speed is pretty even in this game, they just slightly nerfed Shadow's boost speed compared to Sonic's.
Limiter rings
@@evdestroy5304Power Boost/Lightspeed Dash Sonic
@@derp5439Huh? Hasn’t Shadow had the light speed dash in multiple games too? (Shadow, Heroes, and SA2)
@@evdestroy5304 full rings power boost
Fun Fact: Sonic can use Chaos Control too. In Sonic Adventure 2, in the Sonic vs Shadow Boss Fight on the ARK, Sonic says “I’ll use your technique, CHAOS CONTROL!” When you get to far behind when fighting Shadow.
He *can* use it, he just doesn't like using it unless he absolutely has to. It's a last resort. This is probably why it has never been part of his standard moveset in gameplay.
Not only in that, but he used the prototype chaos emerald that tails built to perform the chaos control and escape death.
ILL USE YOUR CHAOS CONTROL!
kid me was stuck on that boss battle for AGES
Sonic does not like to use becase he don't want to use powers from other things, he likes to use he's powers like his strength and his natural speed
@@Denise-jm1cz its the same reason shadow refused to use his doom powers in their fight, because sonic would never use such an edge
I like that the Homing Dash and Spear Glides are glitches in the games that were never patched out. Sonic Team even acknowledged the Homing Dash skill and made it official but nothing yet about Spear Glides. Overall, both games are fun when speedrunning levels
Yeah, kinda weird we didn't get a Speed Strats video on Shadow! A lot of people liked the narrator guy.
@@DolphynsDeck Oh yeah! Speed Strats!
It feels like it's been so long... (wow, thanks for reminding me of that series' existence, lol)
Also, Evan (or @/Mardiculous), former "broadcast host" at Tails' Channel, was the narrator voice for the Speed Strats episodes. I'd say Speed Strats was a pretty charming explainer series!
I think it was especially nice for people who don't know how to find nicher speedrunning content on the current internet. Search engines are pretty good at distracting you from stuff that's actually relevant to your search. I wonder if the Frontiers videos will be responsible for inspiring the next gen of speedrunners lmao.
Speed running a game doesn't make it as fun. It basically ruins it
That's why Frontiers is special to me. It seems like the first time Sonic Team has accepted they can't achieve the level of polish they once had and just embrace the janky physics from Forces as part of the game's design
Sonic: On a straight away no obstacles
Shadow: tactical courses
Sonic: ⏩ ⏩ ⏩😝🥱
Shadow: 🧐😠✍️🎓📖
This isn't just a race, but a special race to determine who's the fastest
Sonic: fastest thing alive
Shadow: utimate lifeform
Its pretty easy to choose who is faster
I was so invested in this video it felt like it ended as fast as those sonic and shadow levels
Damn lmao this is a really good compliment tysm
What I love about these kind of mods is shadow generations and sonic frontiers are so similar yet so different and how they use the same engine. So it’s a faithful re-creation of Frontieres but there’s an element of “spot the difference” between them
Everything down to the models, materials and shaders used is the same which usually isn't the case in level imports. It's high quality and fascinating that way! But obviously it lacks the cyber glitches Sonic has.
I LOVE to see not only you continuing to cover frontiers, but also that it still has an active community, even though most of the internet just says Shadow gens is better frontiers controls
Frontiers and Shadow Gens are just two cakes I take slices from occasionally. Not stopping until the mods stop! Frontiers is easily my favorite game ever made.
I definitely think Frontiers has the better open-zone movement tho.
@@DolphynsDeck I honestly prefer all frontiers movement over shadow gens, even cyberspace. Especially the cyberspace airboost
@BlueSoda3152agree
Sonic frontiers is better
This is the exact type of video i've been looking for man, thanks so much for taking the time to make it!! Presentations was top tier too. Can we maybe get a split-screen for the next one. Would love to see a boost comparison side by side, almost like a race. Would also be cool to see a o doom wings version for Shadow!
Thanks for the feedback :3 I'll try to experiment next time! I'm basically waiting on a compatibility update for Eternal Highway but there's plenty of stuff to go over.
Extra ty for pointing out the presentation :)
I never knew about the “Yoinky sploinky” 1:55
This is actually such a really cool video idea! Must've taken a lot of time to put all the mods together and figure out the strats
Honestly I had the level imports downloaded in a few minutes of research and thankfully had a lot of Frontiers speedrunning knowledge already. I'd say it took 2 hours to figure out Shadow's routes though!
It would be awesome if the next open zone game has sonic and shadow, it would make for awesome movement and combat ideas
I believe it will! Why else would they talk about future resolutions with Rouge and Shadow? Could be a crackpot theory but they tease Victoria and we know how profitable Shadow is now lol
I think Shadow changes the gameplay formula in such a meaningful way with Chaos Control. I'd love to see him appear more.
THIS. THIS. THIS. THIS.
Let us play with either of them in an open world with each having their own unique playstyle. OMG i would LOSE my mind
This video idea is so creative its refreshing mannn
that's so validating!!! thank you, I have a few other ideas similar to this I'd like to do too :) I just love thinking about how I can compare the lore to the gameplay.
0:56 sick landing
moral of the story no matter how much you try…
*THE HOMING DASH BEATS ALL…*
Read this in The End's voice
This video is an absolute masterpiece for Sonic fans! The way Shadow's character is brought to life using Sonic Frontiers animations is mind-blowing and fits his persona perfectly. It’s not just about the speed it’s about the rivalry, and this setup truly captures the essence of that iconic question: who’s faster, Sonic or Shadow? The use of mods and smooth transitions makes it feel like an official crossover we never knew we needed. Watching them race and clash with this level of detail is a treat for anyone who loves the series.
if you hold LT or the left bumper while getting another chaos control capsule.You will get two chaos controls to use
is this a glitch? i havent kept up with speedtech recently :o
@@DolphynsDeck yeah.I gotten this from my boy stelmo98 so give him a shout out
I kind of like this considering I think it makes sense that Sonic is a bit better at improvising with his environment like what you can do with the homing dash and Shadow needs to plan things out and be more thoughtful with the use of his wings and chaos control.
Sonic uses the environment, Shadow uses the enemies. Fitting
This was a perfect video🔥it’s actually crazy that the gameplay makes complete sense for how they are, on paper I thought this was gonna be a shadow ability diff but I didn’t realize there was OP air boosts in frontiers or just super easy ways to skip around you are actually insane at speed running 😱 it gave me a new appreciation for how busted they made sonic in frontiers even when compared to newer mechanics
I adore this comment so much, you mentioned everything I loved about how this video came out. I really want to incite creativity with my coverage and I'm so happy you get it :) I'm flattered
@@DolphynsDeck THE GOAT COMMENTED!! this video was peak thank you for making it hope you have a good rest of your day!!!
I think sonic would win the race, but shadow has chaos control and sonic doesn’t,which I think isn’t fair, so I think later you should do the same thing but with no chaos control
Im pretty just from counting the seconds, it's obvious that without Chaos Control, Shadow's time would be almost a minute more than Sonic's.
I love the differences between the two of them, Sonic focusing on going nuts with his spin/momentum mechanics while Shadow instead gets awarded on the game by being aggresive against enemies like on Shadow 05
It's AMAZING, both characters still are focused on speed but the person controling them is encouraged to play them diferently and with high skill expression, P06 also worked with this idea, it's a banger formula
This is why I need everyone from Gens and Frontiers in one game with intentional rival mechanics 😩
Shadow: Hm. Well, Sonic, you set the rules. Best two out of three. And I just beat you!
Sonic: Huh, what was that? I just got back from beating you Chemdical High-Plant time.
Shadow: ... You what?
Another thing is that shadow gens looks visually better than frontiers, they really pushed the hedgehog engine 2
I wonder how the next game will look…
There is zero narrative reason as to why Shadow can't do the homing dash lol. He has a regular homing attack that he just doesn't use in Shadow Gens. ALSO Shadow is unwilling to use his doom powers against sonic, as he only wants to win on equal footing. Otherwise it's not really winning. They seem to share this trait, as Sonic would SMOKE Jet if Sonic just raced him on foot. But Sonic wouldn't call that winning.
This makes me want an online Sonic boost game where it’s just racing with the current cast of hedgehog engine 2 characters: Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Shadow. I would love to race with my friends in stages from past Sonic games. I could also see a co-op mode where 4 players where giht enemies and bosses with more health, using movesets from Frontiers or Shadow’s from ‘06. They could add new characters over time too like Rouge, Silver, Blaze, Espio, or even a Classic Sonic that would have the Sonic Adventure moveset
Hehehe this is why I really want to support games like Sonic Rumble and Sonic CrossWorlds because I want something on the scale of Robo Blast with the HE2 movesets/graphics. I think it could be my favorite game ever conceived.
There is a multiplayer mod in dev for Frontiers with PVP and everything! I'd love to see people port Shadow's moveset from Gens to Frontiers as well.
@ There’s a multiplayer mod for Frontiers? That sounds peak. Better yet, if Frontiers is getting one… don’t you think Shadow Gens could get one?
Curious if it would be faster without the wings and strictly chaos spear momentuming it
Same! I tried applying some of this in Shadow's Grand Metropolis but I didn't have much time to compare the two.
If sonic used frontiers spin dash, sonic would move way faster, spin dash is way faster than power boost and you carry more momentum
I had to avoid it because it's so OP
@DolphynsDeck i feel that defeats the purpose of the video then, feels like a weird restriction to have if you're trying to compare which character completes which level faster.
“Hey, it’s not his speed. He must be using the Chaos Emerald to warp.”
I deadass zoned out and just stared at this video while hearing you talk
Love the content broooo😩😩
Thank you & Ty for taking the time to write a comment :)
Wasn't the magnet dash once called "The Griddy"?
I believe so
I would've preferred if the griddy was the name of the diagonal quickstepping tech people used up hills
Imagine if this was Forces Sonic. That air boost was so busted he might as well have been flying
Sonic. Idk how this is still a hot topic, sonic will always be faster than shadow, it’s literally his whole gimmick.
As a wise man once said: "A skilled Shadow can beat any Sonic in the world"
People know sonic is stronger and faster than shadow but they like overrate shadow like he is the strongest character in the series
I dont usually sub to anyone in youtube anymore but this really got my attention
Thank you so much for letting me know!! I'm trying hard to do something different around here. I appreciate it.
This was a lotta fun to watch I lowkey would be down for a second one of these
Hehehe as soon as I get Eternal Highway working I'll route some levels. Next time I'll try Spear Gliding more often than Doom Wing too.
I want to see speedrunners race each other in frontiers and generations now.
Now this raises the question, would it have been a closer ending if Shadow didn't use chaos control and/or Sonic didn't just lose all acceleration after hitting a wall?
23 views in a minute is crazy, btw love the vid, and channel overall
I appreciate it so much! Thanks for noticing.
np man 😊
This is pretty neat when they both have differences lol!
btw what mod at 1:22 are you using to have Sonic's jump ball have the squash effect when he jumps in his jumpball?
There's an animation code in HedgeModManager for it :)
@@DolphynsDeck Thanks for telling me! 👍
How different would these times be if you didn’t use any speedrun tech and played both games how the devs intended? Would it be super close or super different between sonic and shadows times? Also no chaos control, If you tried to keep both movesets as similar as possible.
If I'm not allowed to use powerboost I can see Shadow winning. He has better handling and less rebound on his homing attack. If I can use powerboost/max speed on Sonic, he wins based on boost quality.
Would this be with or without the frontiers updates?
@@DolphynsDeck very interesting! I think this idea is really cool, to try to find out how two different characters can compete on the same stages. Maybe you can try Tails, Amy, Knuckles in cyberspace too? Not really against shadow but against sonic from the same game. There’s so many variables involved like cuz each character has skill tree abilities and speedrun tech. But maybe it would be a very underwhelming experiment if certain characters simply cannot interact with stage traversal objects properly… and ideally this would use the “open zone physics and moveset and everything override the cyberspace ones” mod.
I guess for a rematch it's better to utilize sonic's spindash and get rid of the slingshot/homing dash instead.
What with it being a main part of his kit and all
Dolphyns Deck, I have a question. What is your favorite sonic show that has come out?
Realistically though you can optimize way more by stopping when there are 10 enemies to get chaos control twice
great video, makes since that sonics faster, but i wanted to ask was this a custom santa sonic model? 13:23 it just looked different
It was Snowdrift Sonic :) I linked it in the description
Did you know that in sonic frontiers there is a mod that allows you to play sonic 06 levels and it has kingdom valley so an extra could've been
I like how frontiers sonic is in shadow generations
Ngl the amount of times I've tried to homing cancel in shadow generations because of the amount of hours I have in Frontiers
The lack of spindash got it 😂
is this sonic with cyberspace physics or island physics?
Cyberspace
Hey this is off topic from the video but I saw the video about the reanimated frontiers mod then I found out Moshi also made reanimated Shadow gens. so maybe you can check it out. (It’s 5% in development btw)
I really hope someone makes a mod that allows you to actually FIGHT sonic in his frontiers engine. One of the most disappointing things about the game was not getting a sonic boss fight so I hope it happens
A.Why no spin dash?
B.why cyberspace control for sonic when shadow in shadow gens is based off of open zone sonic
Spin Dash has a longer initial speed than boost and allows you to pop into the air very easily, allowing you to skip things that aren't possible or intended for otherwise. At least with magnet dashing there's some risk involved.
There isn't a proper way to race them besides placing them on the same tracks. There isn't an open zone hub port for either game. Besides, Shadow is very slow in the White Space compared to Sonic on the islands.
Woah! What the?! Hey! Its not his speed! He must be using chaos control to warp!
I thought this was frontiers Lmao (well MAINLY frontiers)
I'm not dropping Frontiers for a long time so don't worry. There's just more interesting Shadow content to cover at the moment (imo)
I can see sonic winning
He is corfirmed to be already faster than shadow he just hold back his speed for shadow keep up with him
I thought it was homing dash
that 2D art takes me way back
What we do here is go back back back
7:56 thought he did if you held your stick in neutral?
Shadow? I'm not sure, I'll be testing this today though!
For the next time try using other characters to race against!like knuckles vs sonic,or tails vs shadow
When I get Eternal Highway working I'm definitely taking your advice!
Hey, he’s not fast! He’s using the Chaos Emerald to warp!
It’s not his speed, he’s using the Chaos Emerald to warp!
You are the best speed running
i'm thinking sonic might win a fight too with that crazy moveset!
He can throw hands!! I'd love to see Shadow land a Doom Blast on Sonic though. I just want to see how he'd tank it hehe
@@DolphynsDeck Sorry i took so long to respond! When you think about it i was kinda wrong...Apparently shadow wasn't trying in SXSG to trick sonic and i have 2 reasons to say that!1.the doom powers are OP. 2.Shadow is the GOAT! [and so is sonic unleashed]hehe
9:16 Fun fact: their max speed value is the exact same when Sonic has the power boost, and both of them are only 10 units behind Gens Sonic
So Sonic and Shadow have the same boost? And they're only slightly slower than Sonic Gens? Sorry if I'm reading that incorrectly
@DolphynsDeck Ye
I will call this Superman gliding
The Sonic Thing
11:45 couldn't you get those enemies to use a chaos control at the end for a better time
Probably! I totally forgot at that point because I knew the end was right there, haha. Tunnel vision if you will.
Shadow kinda let him win. Decided not to use his powers, and then stayed down when the emerald was "snatched"
Ultimately he won even, because he kept the emerald despite Sonic being a massive shit head in the cutscene.
He definitely held back but Sonic absolutely caught him off guard when he hesitated. That's the nature of fighting speedsters - you need focus 100% of the time and snap decisions. I think he genuinely lost and the fake emerald was always his plan B. If he wanted to get hit he probably wouldn't have been surprised
Either way, I believe Doom Shadow could beat Sonic it just wasn't the case here
@ oh I meant won as in won the war VS the battle! My bad for not clarifying lol
The fight was for the emerald and the plan B always assured that.
for sure! i see what you mean and i totally agree!
why fight at all if you had the fake emerald the entire time? why not just hand sonic the fake? and go on about your mission? i like to think their rivalry took over, and shadow couldn't pass up the opportunity to fight sonic
@@DolphynsDeckmaybe so, but Sonic has often beaten opponents that often outmatch him. Beating a Chaos Empowered Emerl who has 4000 years of experience and the abilities of all his friends is the best example
Isn't doom wing kinda a super form as you can't get damaged , I just think that's a bit unfair
Sonic is flinging himself at mach 3 without interacting with enemies, I think it's even lol
I don't feel like the heroes level was fair since Sonic is stuck using the board.
Sadly it was the only other level they both shared. I wish it could've been on Eternal Highway.
yo dolphyn you should play sonic momentum, its a 2d fangame with a unique take on sonic's moveset, and not to mention there's combat as well
I'll check it out for sure. Who developed it?
@DolphynsDeck yt loves deleting replies. anyways its by a dude named bane's studio
he has a yt channel and twitter
You know.... if Shadow got a FULL game's worth of upgrades instead of 5hours dlc/side game... he might get enough tricks to make up the difference ;) Just sayin
Idk if you already talked about this but, can we talk about who is stronger frontiers sonic or doom shadow
Well considering Doom Shadow doesn't have any combat besides Blast I'd have to say Sonic is stronger by default. Sonic also has 3 super forms and Shadow only has his pseudo form with Wing.
Even if we're just considering lore and not gameplay, I feel Shadow could hold his own but might be overwhelmed by the sheer variety of moves Sonic has. I'm not too sure if Shadow would power up like he did against Devil Doom, but if he did he could probably win.
I guess using chaos control for shadow not the best idea for comparing speed it will be better if you enable timer while using chaos control at least shadow will benefit of chaos control for refilling boost
Thing is, Shadow wouldn't keep up as well without pausing the timer. I wanted to include that as a valid rule because it's how people actually play time attack in this game.
USE THE SPINDASH
I mean boom does count whether you like it or not it doesn't matter.
Boom isn't canon or mainline so who gives af
@ Cannon or not mainline or not it’s still a part of Sonic. So it still matters. I don’t even care for sonic boom or shadow that much but if it was made by Sega and it was released to the public it still counts
I don’t think he’s lying guys
Neither of these are faster, the true fastest person.
Is Sonic in Sonic Generations (not like out of all Sonic’s)
His speed is so fast he boosts off of cliffs like it’s no big deal!
3:43 arguably the better Sonic model, I hate the short spines.
we need silver generations
They need to bring multiplayer back in 3d games
I wish we could at least race ghost data from our friends. It would make the online leaderboards so much more fun.
@DolphynsDeck fr man
None of them is beating Tails's convineancy
Wait can’t u turn up Sonic’s speed with the settings that ain’t fair really right?
I believe so, but he's not as fast in Cyberspace as he is in the open zone. Next race I'll adjust his settings more.
Sonic's run in grand metropolis had mistakes and sure while shadow might have won anyway it hurts to see 😞
I'll be sure to lock in for the next race video. I wanted to get this idea out there while the Sky Sanctuary mod was still hot.
@DolphynsDeck ah okay okay 🙏🤧
5:55 Wait.. Is that a Sonic X Shadow generations button prompt for the boost button? SONIC GENERATIONS OF SONIC X SHADOW GENERATIONS HAS MODS???!!!!
It's a mod for the original that gives it the new UI. Sorry man lol
@ oh, ok
You could do who is faster between amy tails and knuckles from frontiers
And make a full tierlist with all of them
OOH great idea! I know just how to measure it too. Writing this down...
Now I gotta decide whether or not to ban Tails' cyclone... Maybe I'll include it but keep it grounded?
@DolphynsDeck make it be like a different "character" you know
Have amy knuckles and tails, and then tails with cyclone..
I think thats fair cause cyclone would be interesting to see amd something unique for tails and definitly what makes him special
But at the same time it would be nice to have the category for tails without external upgrades, just his own natural power
I think this is the best
Well wait, cyclone can only be used with max rings...
So its not something you could use normally (cause no level has 999 rings)
So none of the other characters would have too his powerups like the amy vehicle or knuckles infinite glide
Sooooo
Idk, you could have just standar characters or at max power idk... That somethings you would have to decide xD
They used Sonic forces model for Sonic in that cutscene
Isn't the forces model the frontiers model
YES sonic for the WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jake Paul vs Mike Tyson
Ok this one's really clever LOL
Yeah well Shadow only takes 2 minutes to get through Chaos Island while Sonic takes 2 hours hurr durr.
Nah but seriously, what about importing Shadow's stages into Cyberspace?
I would flip the level imports if I could! These three levels are currently the only shared ports between Sonic and Shadow that work. I'll make another race video when there's ports for Frontiers.
Shadow fastest
Do you think it’ll be possible to get OG Gen’s levels imported into Frontiers/Shadow Gens? I feel like those levels would feel longer cuz the boost in HE1 games is a lot faster than HE2 games
I've seen some people attempt to port Planet Wisp I believe. It's possible just like anything, but maybe not worth it in the eyes of some modders? Either way I'd love to see Sonic Gens levels ported to Shadow Gens.
Open Zone's Power Boost is actually faster than Generations boost. Frontier's Spin Dash as well is faster than Gens' boost.
In CyberSpace, using Spindash shoots sonic into max speed with Open Zone physics overriding the cyberspace ones whereas the Power Boost in cyberspace is only a slightly faster vanilla cyberspace boost.
The Final Horizon Cyberspace levels let Sonic use his Open Zone physics in the levels regardless. ( Minus the speedometer level which locks his speed into separate gears. )
@@dragnjames2190 oooh so THAT’S why the spindash is so broken in cyberspace lmao. But that’s interesting to hear, that the power boost in the open zone is faster than Gens boost. It honestly doesn’t feel that way. Unleashed and Gens feel way faster than Frontiers and Shadow
@@Slimeonian That's all because of the camera. It's not nearly close enough to Sonic to mimick the illusion of speed in Gens & Unleashed.
I THINK Frontiers Sonic comes very close to surpassing max speed upgraded Unleashed Sonic but falls just a bit short. Definitely faster than Generations Sonic even with speed up and acceleration skills equipped. And much faster than base Generations Sonic and base Unleashed Sonic.
( As long as they aren't abusing M speed/ Drift speed or Quickstep speed lol )
☺️ nice
Sonic Boom Counts lol jk
GRAAAAAHHH
❤❤❤ good vid and 1st
Goated pfp (thanks for tuning in!)
@DolphynsDeck can you pls pin my comment