Strong wind doesn't play well with lockdown hair. I forgot to put the tag at the start of the video, but this was filmed safely, following all Covid guidance and law: you can pull down the description for a link to the precautions I'm taking!
@@GaviLazan Nothing would top the "one take!" after the one about UA-cam IDs. Sometimes I rewatch it solely for the ending and it has never failed me to bring me joy. Good times.
It always exasperates me when I watch a history video and invariably someone(or many someones) will comment that they can't believe they didn't learn about it in school. So much history, so few school years.........
"History is fractal. You could spend days, or years, or a lifetime studying everything that happened over those few days in 1832. Or, you could sum up centuries in a few minutes." 5:17 Fantastic quote. Beautifully summarizes an idea I've always had but could never had stated so clearly. Have a feeling it will stick with me.
I feel like this is most peoples view of history, which is also why it’s a great excuse not to learn any history or at least any meaningful history. All the good history stuff is in the details anyway.
It isn't if you are actively humble your whole life: Then power is a noble privilege you are given and can freely and easily relinquish when there isn't any further reason to wield it.
Even harder to convince people not in power that the people in power are usually the ones responsible for their misfortune and not "the others"/"traitors". I'm willing to bet that this is the case in not only every current country, but also every single on that has been. There still is hope for the future, always.
I wasn't sure what the title meant to begin with, for some reason I parsed it as "The Abandoned Hill, With Two Members Of Parliament " so thought this video was either going to include two MPs, OR there were two MPs buried there. Much happier with the direction it went though.
1:55 ah yes the famous Salisbury Cathedral, so famous that it would warrent a couple days' holiday from Russia for the sole purpose to look at the cathedral.
I'd just like to emphasise how chaotic the demand for Reform was. When the Reform bill was rejected the second time in the House of Lords, rioters in the city of Bristol controlled the entire city for three entire days; in which they burnt down numerous palaces and mansions of Anti-Reform politicians. When the Reform bill was rejected the third time, there was a dangerous period titled, 'The Days of May'. During which there was a massive run on the banks and caused £1.8 million to be withdrawn from the Bank of England. In today's terms, that's £200 million. In fact, the only way Reform was ever achieved, it required the Pro-Reform Prime Minister, Earl Grey, to threaten the House of Lords by asking King William IV to flood the House with Pro-Reform Lords.
It was only a small step. If you check the Wiki "List of MPs elected in the 1832 United Kingdom general election", you will discover that many members in the House of "Commons" were actually Lords, and other Aristocracy.
@@Alfonso162008 Medieval, War of the Roses to be precise. But the town's procession also included a dragon on a string, so maybe not completely accurate.
"Mr. Scott, _you_ are the only voter in this rotten borough...?" "Yes, that's right." "One voter, 11k upvotes -- a slight anomaly...?" "Not really, Mr. Hanna. The number of votes I cast is simply a reflection of how firmly I believe in this video."
For those like myself, who may be wondering: it’s a reference to Blackadder season three, episode one “Dish and Dishonesty” in which Blackadder gets a hold of a rotten borough, and as its single voter casts 16472 votes for Baldrick.
How I got radicalized: Tom Scott explaining that historically, often only the threat of disempowerment through force can convince those in power to share it
Sometimes, those in power really want to raise up everyone, because they see the country as a society which needs to advance. They're increasingly scarce.
@@graceygrumble sadly though, the institutions many of those people in power work with only represent the interests of the oppressors from the start. power can only be attained by dismantling the current system and replacing it with the power of the oppressed.
@@mortimer687 Many believe that power is only ever relinquished through fear of revolution, or revolution itself. Sometimes, people like Cadbury and Salt, show that taking care of 'the worker' increases productivity and their own personal wealth. Until everyone sees that housing people; giving them well-paid work; educating them and looking after their health is necessary in order to increase the prosperity of everyone, we'll continue with an unfair and fearful society: More prisons, more crime, more police and more gated housing. Being 'good' is economically viable, but people can't see it, because they're foolish.
"History is fractal" That's an excellent way to say it, you can spend the same amount of time studying one day in one persons life, or a century of a civilisation's rise and fall, just depends how deep you want to look. It's important to think though, we're probably in just the dawn of recorded history, just a handful of generations from figuring out the earth goes round the sun. As much history as there is, there's an infinite amount more yet to be made (hopefully)
@@ShankarSivarajan If it's anything like the Canadian commissions, it's about as independent as you can get while still using humans. My favorite feature of ours is that the independent commission gives the report to Parliament (or provincial assembly) for passage into law, so the lawmakers have to actually be on the record as being OK, or on the record claiming the commission screwed up and how. So they may not be happy that their dwindling rural base lost a seat... but is it worth being on the record saying they want an extra seat in spite of all the data saying it shouldn't have it? ;)
@@ShankarSivarajan The way to make them independent, is to make it a split between competing political parties. That's the solution, so just make a it a 50/50 split between republicans and democrats, let some libertarian lunatic have a seat and leave one for a green or something, there we go, that's how you avoid gerrymandering. Or just go proportional and avoid the whole mess.
The districts drawn within each state in the US for representatives (state and national) are based on population, which is recounted by the census every ten years, but we still have trouble with that “independent group” part...
Watched this during an intermission in a quiz bowl tournament and a question regarding the reform act was asked in the second half. Thanks mate for making videos so good I'd watch them multiple times
"how do you convince people with power to give up that power? Public outrage, radicals, protests" Spot on "Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons
@Jonathan Williams You must be some sort of revisionist idiot. No democracy has ended because rich people paid taxes. However, almost every democracy which was killed was killed due to wealth hoarding by an ever narrower elite and their refusal to pay their share. This is what history records. But as the facts dont fit your narrative, sure, you make things up.
@@dairallan Their share? Like back in the days in Russia when people were finally free and some of them, the kulaks, used their new liberties to get wealthy. But then they were deported to Sibiria to freeze because of less skillfull people's jealousy. That was entirely the fault of the kulaks and that's what i call justice!
@@dairallan Bingo. Athens, the original democracy, which already HIGHLY favored the wealthy, nearly collapsed into an oligarchy because some rich people wanted more. The Roman Republic fell because 3 rich dudes wanted more power (before all betraying each other). The Wiemar Republic fell because the Allied Powers had tried to use their victory in WWI to attempt to treat Germany as another colony and because a bunch of land-owners and wealthy people were terrified of fair elections. The US government coup-ed the Bolivian government recently at the ADMITTED behest of Elon Musk. The rich are the one who kill democracy.
A rotten borough was a major plot point in an episode of Black Adder, so I actually happened to know what they were before I watched this video. Thanks Rowan Atkinson!
Java Coder “When I was a young boy, I’d try to play with the other children, and introduce myself as Baldrick. They replied, yes, we know, Sod off Baldrick!”
Tom, you never cease to amaze me. "It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly" is exactly the problem that we're facing right now!
So strange to see Old Sarum on a Tom Scott video - I was just up there yesterday on a walk. It's amazing to live in an area with so much history - the great views and fun you can have running up and down the hills are also a bonus!
I love how many of your videos don't merely present interesting information, but also end with a point and something more generally relevant to our lives or our understanding of history and society. Thanks.
"I'm standing at the river Styx." (Drone camera pulls back and up to show Tom under portable floodlights next to a river. Cue socially-distanced interview with Charon.)
That WAS important sounding, back then, just like Faulk and (feminine) Anor or Matilda. Roger was a good strong Viking name (at least, before it lost the initial H). Styles change, although I *did* see an Osric (an authentic pre-Conquest Anglo-Saxon name) on Supernatural.
I remember going to Old Sarum about 25 years ago because I had free admission on some sort of tourist card. I got out at the Salisbury rail station and asked where it was and was told it was "just up the road." it took 45 minutes to walk there, and I remember it being uphill, and it was raining. As nice as it is, when I got there I was less than enthused because of the walk, the rain, and the thought that I had to walk back.
One of the best parts that was missed out is how the cathedral moved. According to legend, one of the archers in the castle was told to fire an arrow, and where it landed would be the new cathedral. As it fell, the arrow hit a white stag, which ran for eight miles, until it finally collapsed at the site of today’s cathedral’s alter.
Dunwich was even more notorious as a Rotten Borough, it elected two members of parliament for a constituency that dated back to the 12th century - however, by the time the constituency was abolished in 1832, most of the village had fallen victim to coastal erosion and been washed out to sea.
I love the messages at the end of these videos, especially with the added historical context that these locations provide. "It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly".
really enjoyed this video, just finished A-level history going over the parliamentary changes and going through events like the Peterloo massacre, suffragettes and the key figures like Henry Hunt, weird time in history especially when you look into how people got rights to vote, potwalloper is quite a weird one. and i recommend watching blackadder S3 as they go into surprisingly good detail about rotten boroughs and even who voted, which did include animals. well done England.... thanks Tom, putting the old archaeology and not so long ago reforms and different boroughs together made a good video, especially for me, someone who loves History, Archaeology and Ancient History. Sorry for the long Message all! Also Tom Please make more.
problem is that things are so twisted the revolution would be against those that want the country and for those that want a singular global rule by either EU or UN. The fights we have today are due to infiltration of our governments by those in cfr, imf, un, bis, etc...
That's how it works. The more a protest challenges actual power structures, the more violently it gets repressed. That should tell you a bit about the Capitol storming from the other day.
My favourite fact from the saga of Old Sarum is that Salisbury was originally known as New Sarum - and they didn't get round to officially changing the name until 2009. Thanks for another great and informative video.
I had the good fortune to visit Old Sarum in 1983 with my doctor brother who was doing research in Oxford and his partner. That same day we also visited Salisbury Cathedral, Stonehinge, Avebury and a few other places. As soon as I saw the thumbnail I recognized it as Old Sarum. Thanks for the post.
Probably worth mentioning that for much of the last hundred years of its life as a rotten borough, Old Sarum was owned by a family (the Pitts) that produced two PMs. So not just some random powerful schmo, but at times the *most* powerful schmo.
The ground: increases in elevation by half a metre. The british: blimey mate! Take a gander at the size of that hill! Its nearly a whole mountain innit!
Tom you are one impressive fellow. I don’t doubt the significant behind-the-scenes effort and prep, but what we see and hear ultimately is extremely clear, professional and engaging content. I’m honoured to have known of you prior to your future elevation to Leader of the Milky Way.
I remember listening to the Revolutions podcast and hearing something very interesting: until around the time of the English Civil War, the role of government wasn't to serve the citizens, but to manage land. The people *on* the land were relatively unimportant, what mattered was simply the land, its taxable value, and who actually controlled it. And controlling a hill fort could still have some value--even if it is abandoned.
Considering that it evolve from the feudal age, it actually make a lot of sense. This is because the relationship between people are governed by an intricate system of feudal rights. Commoners technically have no obligation under feudal rights to be loyal to their kings but rather to their local lords. The lords themselves are practically autonomous with the king functioning more like a lord among lord rather than absolute monarch. Not to say that the kings are powerless but outside of the royal domain where the lord is directly the kings, the way their power function is indirect aside than certain prerogatives. That is why the House of Lords is the most important house of parliament then with the House of Commons being its junior counterpart.
It looks to me like a gray hoodie that got caught in the middle of a color grading triangle and was deemed the least important thing to get perfectly correct.
The sad thing is, if the rotten boroughs hadn't been abolished when they were, there would be no shortage of people today, many with a lot of power and influence, who'd be happy to argue that they deserve to exist. That getting rid of them would be an affront to tradition and everything the country stands for. Worth thinking about that when politicians defend things in the name of tradition.
Very informative as usual. I went to the wikipedia article about rotten boroughs, which also included the similar "pocket boroughs", and thus I was able to finally understand the line in HMS Pinafore that had for the past 40 years or so meant absolutely nothing to me (I mean, sure, I could have looked it up earlier, but never had the desire to).
English heritage is such a great organization. Their UA-cam channel is great too. They do the sublime series "cooking the the victorian way" of course, but they have loads of other great vids too, and their work overall is really great.
funny how I just a few days ago argued with people about reform vs revolution (in the sense that we should always strive for reform, but be willing to threat the powerholders of society with revolution if they dont listen), and here Tom just randomly pops in and makes my point.
I was there back in 2017 and i have a tip for people who wants to go to Britain. We went to Dover Castle a payed about 50 GBP for 3 adults, we got offer for paying extra 5 GBP and have free entry to every sight in Britain under English Heritage. We have saved about 400GBP for entries including Stonehenge which alone was like 120GBP i believe.
"It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly". It's sad when a person's ethics are corrupted by power, the only argument they'll believe is violence against them.
Top Tip if you are visiting Stonehenge, it is very close to the Old Sarum; and the entrance fee of stonehenge alone is high enough to justify looking at getting a English Heritage yearly pass, giving free access to Stoneghenge, Old Sarum, and hundreds of other sites
omg i climbed that moat when I was 8 or 9. helped by my older brothers. damn near killed me. We snuck in after walking all the way from home on Fisherton Ave. I'm 52 now and when I google map that now, Im like omg what were we thinking. Thanks for the memories Tom. I miss Salisbury and the UK.
True. Government and concentrations of power are always slow to react and adapt to social and technological change. The longer it takes, the longer the tension builds up and the more "energy" is released when it does.
I've read about Old Sarum and the rotten boroughs but, as an Australian, I simply can't comprehend how Sarum and Salisbury are different places when you can see them from each other. The micro scale of life in the UK is mindboggling.
Also 'we cannot understand the present unless we understand the past'..... our past........ and we rarely get that in the media or at school............................... which is why................................ Hey ho Enjoy!
You know you are watching a Tom Scott video when a discussion about a historically important hilltop turns into an existential reflection on human society with modern day parallels.
"It is extremely difficult to get people with power to give it up willingly" well I never thought I'd hear something historical like that linked to something ongoing in 2020.
I'm enjoying these videos where you use an "oddity" of history to step into a broader context. The sad/funny thing is that in California, we have two Senators representing forty million people while 10 Senators represent far fewer people.
hey tom,love your all videos. love from turkey. as a guy who loves filming and making simple videos but a one also wanna do better. you're inspiration for me. please never stop making videos. love your accent and acts while speaking in videos. (subtitles are supergood for me.)
Still the same. It just takes a bit more doing. People are still capable of hanging politicians from lampposts. We just have a few more options to try before it gets there.
“Dunny-on-the-World is a tuppenny- ha'penny place. Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a dachshund named `Colin', and a small hen in its late forties.”
@@JohnSmith-pd1fz I was going to agree until I remembered that Suffolk has several fens (lakenheath and Hopton jump immediately to mind) and whilst there is not specifically any swathes of land labelled as 'wolds' and Suffolk is hundreds of miles from the Cotswolds or the Wolds of North East England, it does have the town of Southwold.
Why does it feel like this video is awfully well timed? And then when I think about it, why it would be well timed at literally at any point in history.
Strong wind doesn't play well with lockdown hair. I forgot to put the tag at the start of the video, but this was filmed safely, following all Covid guidance and law: you can pull down the description for a link to the precautions I'm taking!
Good tom!
Hi :)
Great Job Tom! Keep up the valuable content!
What... how does your comment say 3 weeks ago when this video came out 1 minute ago?
What,this was commented 3 weeks ago and the video came out today
I honestly feel like Tom is shouting "one take!" to the sky in the outro.
got the same vibe. That was a nice moment
I feel like every time we see him at the end of a video he's yelling "one take!"
@@GaviLazan Nothing would top the "one take!" after the one about UA-cam IDs. Sometimes I rewatch it solely for the ending and it has never failed me to bring me joy.
Good times.
@@marysiamilach8460 I rewatched that one just last night, he's so chuffed with himself.
Those are definitley the "one take!" arms haha
Never thought my house would be in a Tom Scott video, but can just about see it from here!
Daryl Watts doxed yourself.
Nice place to live.
Hey I'm outside, let me in
@Susan Reed,????????
@@chairchair1231 why 🙄 can't 😑 you 😕 understand 😮 what 😞 they're ☹️ saying 🤔😑🙁😒
"History is fractal" - such an elegant way to describe it.
It really is
There's just so much of it.
Nice isn't it, the closer you look at history the more detail is revealed and you'll never get to the end of it.
It always exasperates me when I watch a history video and invariably someone(or many someones) will comment that they can't believe they didn't learn about it in school. So much history, so few school years.........
Connections by James Burke is such a nice example of this.
"History is fractal. You could spend days, or years, or a lifetime studying everything that happened over those few days in 1832. Or, you could sum up centuries in a few minutes." 5:17
Fantastic quote. Beautifully summarizes an idea I've always had but could never had stated so clearly. Have a feeling it will stick with me.
Yep. That line jumped out at me, too. Fractal is a great description: the more you "zoom in" the more detail there is.
I feel like this is most peoples view of history, which is also why it’s a great excuse not to learn any history or at least any meaningful history. All the good history stuff is in the details anyway.
@@scottnunnemaker5209 Sometimes you learn things about your hero's that you wish you didn't learn.
@@bigredc222 good, then you can stop worshipping horrible people as heroes because of ignorance.
@@scottnunnemaker5209 I don't have to worry, I've never worshipped anyone.
The last quote is too true.
"It's hard to convince people with power to give up that power" is the exact problem that many in this world face.
Which is why we need to be careful when deciding which powers we give the government. For too much of the world its a bit late
It isn't if you are actively humble your whole life: Then power is a noble privilege you are given and can freely and easily relinquish when there isn't any further reason to wield it.
@@Wasserkaktus I, for one, am extraordinarily humble. Perhaps the most so.
Even harder to convince people not in power that the people in power are usually the ones responsible for their misfortune and not "the others"/"traitors". I'm willing to bet that this is the case in not only every current country, but also every single on that has been. There still is hope for the future, always.
Eat the rich
A moment of silence for all people like me who thought that this hill still has 2 MPs
F
F
F
I wasn't sure what the title meant to begin with, for some reason I parsed it as "The Abandoned Hill, With Two Members Of Parliament
" so thought this video was either going to include two MPs, OR there were two MPs buried there.
Much happier with the direction it went though.
F
manchester: hi we'd like these laws
some guy on a hill: *no*
riots ensue
some guy on a hill: no
more riots
some guy on a hill: no
even more riots
some guy on a hill: ok
some guys not on a hill
Settle down our kid.
More like: Some guy whom we pretend is still on a hill *wink wink nudge nudge*
Nowt changes
"It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly."
As Gary would say, "topical."
It’s even more topical now
“SATIRE”
@@charlieackroyd3243 And even more even more today. New voter suppression laws yay! /s
I'm gonna be impressed when there's a moment where this ISN'T topical
Gary? Who the hell is Gary?
"It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly."
- Tom Scott, Things You Almost Certainly Know
Tom Scott, the guy who can equally well talk about IT, art or history!
And linguistics
Or even implied social commentary disguised as history ;-)
That's his talent, talking something and making it entertaining!
Is it "equally well talk" or "talk equally well"? If only we had someone who could equally talk well about linguistics...
It's just the wikipedia page on a topic but with a british accent. Excellent presentation nevertheless
1:55 ah yes the famous Salisbury Cathedral, so famous that it would warrent a couple days' holiday from Russia for the sole purpose to look at the cathedral.
They then went back to Moscow after Salisbury was too cold.
Why of course have you not pondered with great awe at the 123m tall spire comrade *cough* *cough* friend
Can someone tell what this references to?
@@Makujah_ the Salisbury poisoning a few years back
@@Makujah_ Skripal poisoning
''And now the returning Officer for Dunny on the wold, Mr E Blackadder...."
... and Mr S Baldrick.
And a Robber Button is?
@@svmitche ... a Rubber Bottom with a few letters transposed.
@@chthonicmonster sod off
And we're all very glad that Mr Blackadder stepped in at the last moment
I thought this was either going to be:
- two MPs were buried there
OR
- you going along with two MPs to the hill
😅 oh how wrong I was
I thought it was a MP tomb or something 😭
I thought it had 2 statues of MPs.
@@ragnkja I only know about rotten boroughs from Blackadder.
Or a constituency boundary splitting it down the middle
I thought two MPs lived there or are currently living there 😂
I'd just like to emphasise how chaotic the demand for Reform was. When the Reform bill was rejected the second time in the House of Lords, rioters in the city of Bristol controlled the entire city for three entire days; in which they burnt down numerous palaces and mansions of Anti-Reform politicians. When the Reform bill was rejected the third time, there was a dangerous period titled, 'The Days of May'. During which there was a massive run on the banks and caused £1.8 million to be withdrawn from the Bank of England. In today's terms, that's £200 million.
In fact, the only way Reform was ever achieved, it required the Pro-Reform Prime Minister, Earl Grey, to threaten the House of Lords by asking King William IV to flood the House with Pro-Reform Lords.
That's really cool, the history of "public outrage" is so important when you look back at progress for such large nations
It was only a small step. If you check the Wiki "List of MPs elected in the 1832 United Kingdom general election", you will discover that many members in the House of "Commons" were actually Lords, and other Aristocracy.
We camped on Old Sarum as re-enactors, and I fell in love with my partner in Salisbury Cathedral tea shop. Thanks for the memories Tom.
now thats a story!
I used to go to the re-enactments as a child every summer. Good fun.
That’s very sweet
Re-enactors of what, if I may ask?
@@Alfonso162008 Medieval, War of the Roses to be precise. But the town's procession also included a dragon on a string, so maybe not completely accurate.
Me and the boys owning an old castle to get seats in parliment
Imagine being a hill and then an MP comes along
"Hello, I wonder if you'd consider voting for me..."
That's why it's in ruins.
Kyriacos Stavrinides ayy
Imagine being a hill.
No I don't think I will.
I don't think an MP coming along adds much to the weirdness when I'm already imagining being a hill
"Mr. Scott, _you_ are the only voter in this rotten borough...?"
"Yes, that's right."
"One voter, 11k upvotes -- a slight anomaly...?"
"Not really, Mr. Hanna. The number of votes I cast is simply a reflection of how firmly I believe in this video."
Nice. As soon as we heard the phrase rotten borough, we knew where it was heading.
A rubber button
Glad I'm not the only one with such a one-track mind 😄
@@IlanPearlman Well lucky, lucky us! Luuuck! Luuuuck! LuckluckLUUUUCK!!
For those like myself, who may be wondering: it’s a reference to Blackadder season three, episode one “Dish and Dishonesty” in which Blackadder gets a hold of a rotten borough, and as its single voter casts 16472 votes for Baldrick.
How I got radicalized: Tom Scott explaining that historically, often only the threat of disempowerment through force can convince those in power to share it
Sometimes, those in power really want to raise up everyone, because they see the country as a society which needs to advance.
They're increasingly scarce.
@@graceygrumble sadly though, the institutions many of those people in power work with only represent the interests of the oppressors from the start. power can only be attained by dismantling the current system and replacing it with the power of the oppressed.
@@mortimer687 Many believe that power is only ever relinquished through fear of revolution, or revolution itself.
Sometimes, people like Cadbury and Salt, show that taking care of 'the worker' increases productivity and their own personal wealth.
Until everyone sees that housing people; giving them well-paid work; educating them and looking after their health is necessary in order to increase the prosperity of everyone, we'll continue with an unfair and fearful society:
More prisons, more crime, more police and more gated housing.
Being 'good' is economically viable, but people can't see it, because they're foolish.
wow this aged well
🎵 for though they offer us concessions, change will not come from above 🎵
"History is fractal"
That's an excellent way to say it, you can spend the same amount of time studying one day in one persons life, or a century of a civilisation's rise and fall, just depends how deep you want to look.
It's important to think though, we're probably in just the dawn of recorded history, just a handful of generations from figuring out the earth goes round the sun. As much history as there is, there's an infinite amount more yet to be made (hopefully)
Kyle Brown *cue distant sound of nukes dropping*
*of OUR recorded history :) aliens!!
5:01 "These days Parliamentary boundaries are drawn by an independent group based on population."
Sorry Americans.
"Independent."
No apology neccessary.
@@ShankarSivarajan If it's anything like the Canadian commissions, it's about as independent as you can get while still using humans. My favorite feature of ours is that the independent commission gives the report to Parliament (or provincial assembly) for passage into law, so the lawmakers have to actually be on the record as being OK, or on the record claiming the commission screwed up and how. So they may not be happy that their dwindling rural base lost a seat... but is it worth being on the record saying they want an extra seat in spite of all the data saying it shouldn't have it? ;)
@@ShankarSivarajan The way to make them independent, is to make it a split between competing political parties. That's the solution, so just make a it a 50/50 split between republicans and democrats, let some libertarian lunatic have a seat and leave one for a green or something, there we go, that's how you avoid gerrymandering.
Or just go proportional and avoid the whole mess.
The districts drawn within each state in the US for representatives (state and national) are based on population, which is recounted by the census every ten years, but we still have trouble with that “independent group” part...
Given Scott's use of landscape shots my house would turn up in one of these videos eventually, and here we are
Jack Dutfield ditto
No it didn't.
Post a screenshot and circle it
@@MrEazyE357 Get off it.
that_G_EvanP I’m with you. We’re waiting.
Watched this during an intermission in a quiz bowl tournament and a question regarding the reform act was asked in the second half. Thanks mate for making videos so good I'd watch them multiple times
"how do you convince people with power to give up that power? Public outrage, radicals, protests"
Spot on
"Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth." - Lucy Parsons
@Jonathan Williams You must be some sort of revisionist idiot. No democracy has ended because rich people paid taxes. However, almost every democracy which was killed was killed due to wealth hoarding by an ever narrower elite and their refusal to pay their share. This is what history records. But as the facts dont fit your narrative, sure, you make things up.
I agree, but would like to add:
Take care that your actions do not harm those you would wish to save, because such is not revolution, but dissolution.
@@dairallan taxes are paid on profits, not on seized capital.
@@dairallan Their share? Like back in the days in Russia when people were finally free and some of them, the kulaks, used their new liberties to get wealthy. But then they were deported to Sibiria to freeze because of less skillfull people's jealousy. That was entirely the fault of the kulaks and that's what i call justice!
@@dairallan Bingo. Athens, the original democracy, which already HIGHLY favored the wealthy, nearly collapsed into an oligarchy because some rich people wanted more. The Roman Republic fell because 3 rich dudes wanted more power (before all betraying each other). The Wiemar Republic fell because the Allied Powers had tried to use their victory in WWI to attempt to treat Germany as another colony and because a bunch of land-owners and wealthy people were terrified of fair elections. The US government coup-ed the Bolivian government recently at the ADMITTED behest of Elon Musk. The rich are the one who kill democracy.
A rotten borough was a major plot point in an episode of Black Adder, so I actually happened to know what they were before I watched this video. Thanks Rowan Atkinson!
Timohtep and Mister S. Baldrick.
Sorry to bother you Mr E Blackadder, but what does the S in his name stand for?
Ah, Sodoff
Java Coder “When I was a young boy, I’d try to play with the other children, and introduce myself as Baldrick. They replied, yes, we know, Sod off Baldrick!”
The power of an expensive turnip is to great. All I want one day is a turnip of my own.
Tom, you never cease to amaze me. "It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly" is exactly the problem that we're facing right now!
So strange to see Old Sarum on a Tom Scott video - I was just up there yesterday on a walk. It's amazing to live in an area with so much history - the great views and fun you can have running up and down the hills are also a bonus!
Came here on a school trip as a kid, my love of history developed almost immediately. Great video.
I love how many of your videos don't merely present interesting information, but also end with a point and something more generally relevant to our lives or our understanding of history and society. Thanks.
This video made me cry. You did a really good job threading a needle, and making a statement.
It'll be a dark day in hell when Tom Scott runs out of things to talk about
"I'm standing at the river Styx." (Drone camera pulls back and up to show Tom under portable floodlights next to a river. Cue socially-distanced interview with Charon.)
I would watch a Tom Scott video about a dark day in hell.
@@donaldasayers It'd be a 40 min documentary about the phrase
@@countertony And going on to point out that the three headed dog is called Cerberus, which means "Spot".
Imagine him dying
It'll be the shittiest and darkest day in history
And Reckful also died on Thursday. Can we get an F in the chat, bois?
Tom: Local Bishop
Me: what's his name gonna be?
Something regal and important sounding?
Tom:
_Roger_
That WAS important sounding, back then, just like Faulk and (feminine) Anor or Matilda. Roger was a good strong Viking name (at least, before it lost the initial H). Styles change, although I *did* see an Osric (an authentic pre-Conquest Anglo-Saxon name) on Supernatural.
Yes, shrubberies are my trade. I am a shrubber. My name is Roger the Shrubber. I arrange, design, and sell shrubberies.
"There are some who call me ...
Tim."
And King Steve.
In Beowulf, king Hrothgar would be called King Roger if it was written today. The name changes, the regality is lost.
I remember going to Old Sarum about 25 years ago because I had free admission on some sort of tourist card. I got out at the Salisbury rail station and asked where it was and was told it was "just up the road." it took 45 minutes to walk there, and I remember it being uphill, and it was raining. As nice as it is, when I got there I was less than enthused because of the walk, the rain, and the thought that I had to walk back.
This guy would be the final boss in Guess My Age
Twenty-fourty-five
Is that a game?
39
I think he’s about 36
This was remarkably informative. US native here, So I knew nothing of this matter. I appreciate the time and effort putting all this together takes.
Well, for what it's worth, the problem mentioned here was the entire reason and point of the extensive rioting we did from 1776 to 1783.
One of the best parts that was missed out is how the cathedral moved. According to legend, one of the archers in the castle was told to fire an arrow, and where it landed would be the new cathedral. As it fell, the arrow hit a white stag, which ran for eight miles, until it finally collapsed at the site of today’s cathedral’s alter.
sounds like the archer was subtly telling them to leave town. (how else can you hit a animal on "accident" like that)
Dunwich was even more notorious as a Rotten Borough, it elected two members of parliament for a constituency that dated back to the 12th century - however, by the time the constituency was abolished in 1832, most of the village had fallen victim to coastal erosion and been washed out to sea.
A Tom Scott video commenting on current events that is also timeless at the same time?!
This is why we like this channel!
The rottenest of rotten boroughs.
S. Baldrick has my vote.
I actually thought of the same person, but in his role from Time Team instead..
What does the S stand for?
@@rikeep Sod off
@@HMJ66 Well, I guess it's none of my business really.
Great thread xD
I love the messages at the end of these videos, especially with the added historical context that these locations provide.
"It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly".
Fun fact: Tom Scott and Ted Ed upload a video at exactly the same time (within a minute) every Monday.
Edit: typo
Wait, seriously??
Gotta love Tom Scoot. Tom Scott’s scootering brother.
Yes
@@sprigsprog skeet skeet
Very apt closing statement. Fascinating piece of history I was not aware of
really enjoyed this video, just finished A-level history going over the parliamentary changes and going through events like the Peterloo massacre, suffragettes and the key figures like Henry Hunt, weird time in history especially when you look into how people got rights to vote, potwalloper is quite a weird one. and i recommend watching blackadder S3 as they go into surprisingly good detail about rotten boroughs and even who voted, which did include animals. well done England.... thanks Tom, putting the old archaeology and not so long ago reforms and different boroughs together made a good video, especially for me, someone who loves History, Archaeology and Ancient History.
Sorry for the long Message all!
Also Tom Please make more.
5:36 Tom Scott subtly advocating for violent revolution against the billionaire class I see. That red shirt isn't a coincidence.
problem is that things are so twisted the revolution would be against those that want the country and for those that want a singular global rule by either EU or UN. The fights we have today are due to infiltration of our governments by those in cfr, imf, un, bis, etc...
Tomrade Scott
He's wearing a blue-grey hoody today! :)
Mr. Steven Craig Smith Sr. Communism is in favour of abolishing borders right?
@@Olyvia.. Sure... That's why the Eastern block ruled by communists had the Iron Curtain...
Reading about Peterloo it's upsetting that this isn't more heavily remembered for the tragedy it was
Sad thing is it's not a unique event by any count.
Even here in USA theres been multiple government sanctioned massacres against protesters
Dark stains on the establishment have a funny way of getting forgotten.
Blackstar 76 not really forgotten
That's how it works. The more a protest challenges actual power structures, the more violently it gets repressed. That should tell you a bit about the Capitol storming from the other day.
People keep talking about the bloody event, I'm surprised anyone hasn't heard of it. Can one call 18 deaths a "massacre"?
My favourite fact from the saga of Old Sarum is that Salisbury was originally known as New Sarum - and they didn't get round to officially changing the name until 2009.
Thanks for another great and informative video.
I had the good fortune to visit Old Sarum in 1983 with my doctor brother who was doing research in Oxford and his partner. That same day we also visited Salisbury Cathedral, Stonehinge, Avebury and a few other places. As soon as I saw the thumbnail I recognized it as Old Sarum. Thanks for the post.
Probably worth mentioning that for much of the last hundred years of its life as a rotten borough, Old Sarum was owned by a family (the Pitts) that produced two PMs. So not just some random powerful schmo, but at times the *most* powerful schmo.
Tom can make any random topic which I never thought I wanted to know interesting and really entertaining to watch. Really good content 👍
Comrade Scott: "It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly."
(that's why the shirt is red)
You gotta appreciate the effort put into every video: Love your dedication and commitment!
"it is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up, willingly."
Ayeee I see what you did there, good on you Tom
Tom with the truth bombs at the end though
"French Revolution was in *'living'* memory then"
Throat gesture at 04:27
@@gordonrichardson2972 any idea what that gesture means?
@@BleuSquid It generally means death, but in this instance it specifically means beheading as that is what happened to the French royals.
I took it to mean that the "Living" part of Living Memory didn't strictly apply to everyone involved.
And of course, the most recent French Revolution was only two years prior. Together with a heap of other revolutions across Europe.
The ground: increases in elevation by half a metre.
The british: blimey mate! Take a gander at the size of that hill! Its nearly a whole mountain innit!
« It is extreme difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly. »
Put in today’s context, that’s a very subtle move. Nicely done Tom!
I'm always insanely impressed by Tom's ability to memorise such long and detailed talk.
How do you think theatre actors manage, lots of practice and dedication.
Tom you are one impressive fellow. I don’t doubt the significant behind-the-scenes effort and prep, but what we see and hear ultimately is extremely clear, professional and engaging content. I’m honoured to have known of you prior to your future elevation to Leader of the Milky Way.
I remember listening to the Revolutions podcast and hearing something very interesting: until around the time of the English Civil War, the role of government wasn't to serve the citizens, but to manage land. The people *on* the land were relatively unimportant, what mattered was simply the land, its taxable value, and who actually controlled it. And controlling a hill fort could still have some value--even if it is abandoned.
Considering that it evolve from the feudal age, it actually make a lot of sense. This is because the relationship between people are governed by an intricate system of feudal rights. Commoners technically have no obligation under feudal rights to be loyal to their kings but rather to their local lords. The lords themselves are practically autonomous with the king functioning more like a lord among lord rather than absolute monarch. Not to say that the kings are powerless but outside of the royal domain where the lord is directly the kings, the way their power function is indirect aside than certain prerogatives. That is why the House of Lords is the most important house of parliament then with the House of Commons being its junior counterpart.
"It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly."
Tom Scott calls for Revolution.
let’s stop for a minute and talk about his light-blue hoodie.
It looks to me like a gray hoodie that got caught in the middle of a color grading triangle and was deemed the least important thing to get perfectly correct.
definitely a light grey hoodie, don't worry
You are mistaken. The definition of the colour grey is the colour of Tom’s hoodie.
I'm so glad you brought it up
Dont worry the red shirt is under it
Tom has such a calming way to talk, i could listen to him for hours regardless of the topic/s
Discovered this channel about a week ago and it instantly became my favourite to watch
Fun little history lesson in 5 minutes quite enjoyable as well.
"It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up."
Tom Scott is *BASED?*
I think you missed the 'i' out there?
based and redshirted
Based comrade
Who invented PCM it UA-cam
The sad thing is, if the rotten boroughs hadn't been abolished when they were, there would be no shortage of people today, many with a lot of power and influence, who'd be happy to argue that they deserve to exist. That getting rid of them would be an affront to tradition and everything the country stands for. Worth thinking about that when politicians defend things in the name of tradition.
Very informative as usual. I went to the wikipedia article about rotten boroughs, which also included the similar "pocket boroughs", and thus I was able to finally understand the line in HMS Pinafore that had for the past 40 years or so meant absolutely nothing to me (I mean, sure, I could have looked it up earlier, but never had the desire to).
English heritage is such a great organization. Their UA-cam channel is great too. They do the sublime series "cooking the the victorian way" of course, but they have loads of other great vids too, and their work overall is really great.
Tom Scott: people with power don't want to give it up and it might take a violent revolution to make them
Me: …comrade Scott?
Not always flying that shade of red... nnnguy.
why do you think he's always wearing red?
@@muddyerbbine6254 red ones go fasta
I think the kids say 'based'
TWO members of Parliament? That’s more members than we could ever get to agree!
In those days, all boroughs returned two MPs.
Tom Scott’s comment is three weeks ago, as usual!
Wait what
sorcery
Like, how? probs just a scheduled video or something. Correct me if I’m wrong
@@thatonecuber9266 the video was private for a bit of time, Tom put a comment when it was private
@@aliakeel im going with scheduled video
funny how I just a few days ago argued with people about reform vs revolution (in the sense that we should always strive for reform, but be willing to threat the powerholders of society with revolution if they dont listen), and here Tom just randomly pops in and makes my point.
I was there back in 2017 and i have a tip for people who wants to go to Britain. We went to Dover Castle a payed about 50 GBP for 3 adults, we got offer for paying extra 5 GBP and have free entry to every sight in Britain under English Heritage. We have saved about 400GBP for entries including Stonehenge which alone was like 120GBP i believe.
"It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly". It's sad when a person's ethics are corrupted by power, the only argument they'll believe is violence against them.
An MP representing just themselves? That never happens nowadays
We love you Tom! Thanks for being my favorite UA-camr and continuing to make videos! ❤️
Top Tip if you are visiting Stonehenge, it is very close to the Old Sarum; and the entrance fee of stonehenge alone is high enough to justify looking at getting a English Heritage yearly pass, giving free access to Stoneghenge, Old Sarum, and hundreds of other sites
omg i climbed that moat when I was 8 or 9. helped by my older brothers. damn near killed me. We snuck in after walking all the way from home on Fisherton Ave. I'm 52 now and when I google map that now, Im like omg what were we thinking. Thanks for the memories Tom. I miss Salisbury and the UK.
"it is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly" - Tom Scott, 2020, calling for revolution
"It is extremely difficult to convince people with power to give it up willingly."
Sounds familiar.
The lessons learned here are still relevant today, especially in the US with the political crisis going on right now.
True. Government and concentrations of power are always slow to react and adapt to social and technological change. The longer it takes, the longer the tension builds up and the more "energy" is released when it does.
This is consistently one of the most interesting channels on UA-cam...
Don't stop doing what you do Tom...
I've read about Old Sarum and the rotten boroughs but, as an Australian, I simply can't comprehend how Sarum and Salisbury are different places when you can see them from each other. The micro scale of life in the UK is mindboggling.
Tom, this was a really smart way to examine contemporary issues through the lens of history. Props to you and Jess Jewell.
Also 'we cannot understand the present unless we understand the past'..... our past........ and we rarely get that in the media or at school............................... which is why................................ Hey ho Enjoy!
You know you are watching a Tom Scott video when a discussion about a historically important hilltop turns into an existential reflection on human society with modern day parallels.
"It is extremely difficult to get people with power to give it up willingly" well I never thought I'd hear something historical like that linked to something ongoing in 2020.
Hey Tom, thanks for the video! I'm Canadian and I don't know much about English history, this a really wonderful little tale. Thanks for sharing!
I'm enjoying these videos where you use an "oddity" of history to step into a broader context. The sad/funny thing is that in California, we have two Senators representing forty million people while 10 Senators represent far fewer people.
The Senators represent states, which are presumed to be equal members of the Union.
If you want representation, then there's the House for that
"the Frech Revolution was still living memory"
Hehe, nice one
In 1832 it certainly was inliving memory. Reading/listening comprehension failure then.
This is Tom Scott telling people that it's time for revolution.
This guy and Half-Asleep Chris are the only 2 people i’m still on YT for
Edit: yall might stay for diff people but these two are the ppl i stay for
Ditto
Jayforeman?
The tim traveller?
no
Which Chris?
Thank you! Finally a clear and concise explanation of a 'rotten borough".
What is a robber button?
@@Nicoder6884 Did you mean robber baron?
Or rubber baton?
ribber bar?
rugger ball?
hey tom,love your all videos. love from turkey. as a guy who loves filming and making simple videos but a one also wanna do better. you're inspiration for me. please never stop making videos. love your accent and acts while speaking in videos. (subtitles are supergood for me.)
Then: Change, or face death by revolt.
Now:
Still the same. It just takes a bit more doing. People are still capable of hanging politicians from lampposts. We just have a few more options to try before it gets there.
I do wonder how the same ancom cosplayers advocating violent revolution from their bedrooms would actually fare in the middle of a violent revolution.
“Dunny-on-the-World is a tuppenny-
ha'penny place. Half an acre of sodden marshland in the Suffolk Fens
with an empty town hall on it. Population: three rather mangy cows, a
dachshund named `Colin', and a small hen in its late forties.”
++globalhikinger++ There are neither Wolds nor Fenland in the county of Suffolk despite what you may have heard.
No people at all then... apart from Colin.
@@JohnSmith-pd1fz I was going to agree until I remembered that Suffolk has several fens (lakenheath and Hopton jump immediately to mind) and whilst there is not specifically any swathes of land labelled as 'wolds' and Suffolk is hundreds of miles from the Cotswolds or the Wolds of North East England, it does have the town of Southwold.
Why does it feel like this video is awfully well timed? And then when I think about it, why it would be well timed at literally at any point in history.
Wow, I'm impressed about how timely this video is. Such an important lesson to learn and you are such a good teacher to get us there.
I'm from Salisbury and this video was very informative. Thanks for highlighting some of the political history of my hometown/city.
I'm waiting for a TechDif: Quarantine edition :P
Great video though. Especially the comment about history being like a fractal :)