Over-Engineering At Its Finest! GMC Canyon Needs A Timing Chain
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- This 2010 GMC Canyon 2.9 needs a new timing chain. Might as well get a new... everything else while you're at it.
00:16 Getting At The Timing Chain
00:56 Removing Valve Cover & Fan
01:32 Removing The Flywheel
02:20 Removing The Oil Pan
02:43 Getting To The Intake Manifold
03:27 Removing The Balancer
03:47 Loose Timing Chain
04:17 Replace The Timing Chain
05:45 Lining Up Front Timing Marks
07:23 Lining Up Rear Timing Marks
09:23 Corrosion Problems
10:43 Test Drive Rant
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I think all auto engineers should be required to work with mechanics for a few months prior to designing anything. Actually, that goes for any engineer that designs stuff that has to be built or repaired.
I completely agree
Me too
Why would the engineers care about what mechanics have to say? GM doesn't make money on service... Mopar doesn't make money on service... Ford doesn't either. The engineer is there to make the vehicle that sells to the customer they're aiming for. Mechanics are irrelevant to engineers, at least in the auto industry.
Agreed. Too few engineers enter the work force without any technician experience. I'm currently going to school for mechanical engineering, and the majority of my classmates have never touched a wrench.
I think every engineer should have a least a few years not months with mechanical work. that or an engineer should work hand in hand with a mechanic
Worked at GM for 30 yrs. When you know how they're built you drive something else!
Exactly
Yeah lets drive a ford triton motor with spark plugs that have only THREE threads holding the spark plugs in the aluminum head. How about a Dodge truck that you have pull the wheel hub assembly and remove the studs to replace the rotor. A caddy that you have to pull the intake manifold to replace the starter. A infinity that you have to pull the intake to replace the friggin spark plugs. There is not a manufacturer out there that doesn't have a WTF design in there lineup.
@@michaelwilkening8542 Pick your poison! :D
i usedto work for mercedes but i didnt drive a merc despite the discount offered to unreliable and depriciation is shocking and thair a pain in the arse to fix 😕 and expensive 😠
Robert, I think your words hold the most value.
Engineering like this is often cited as a reason Germany had such a high percentage of inoperable tanks in the field during WWII.
My sister owned a turbo 4 cylinder Volkswagen, I hated working on that fucking thing.
@@ws8061 I loved working on my vw. I had a non turbo 6 tho. I knew that car like the back of my hand.
Not always...Changed the timing belt on my Porsche 928, in my garage in 2 hours. Very easy job. The Engineers seemed to have done their job on the 928.
Honestly the Canyon isn't nearly as bad as most german things
That's not true, when german want something reliable they make it. Allies had nothing on the German tanks, those panzer were notorious for still working when shot multiple times. When germans are in it for the money, thats when they start playing around.
I worked for GM service departments for over 40 years. There were many times those of us who had to deal with situations like this and others, often fantasized about telling the factory engineers where to go. This is a common problem we had to deal with the last few years and not one the technician or customer appreciated. The statement you made about engineers at the beginning of the video applies to many situations I have encountered over the years. Glad I’m retired. Thanks for the video. Great memories lol.
Imagine owning one ... and deciding to keep the contraption alive only to repeat the insanity 200km later 😄
Remember the powerful indestructible throttle body injected 4.3 V6 of the early 90s/late 80s in the small pickups? Great combo it was.
I have a 91 GMC Sonoma with a stroked 4.3l to a 5.0l v6. 370 hp at the flywheel. Ext cab with a coil over suspension front and rear. Built 700r4. 14 mpg in town 22 mpg Hwy. Owned since new never needed anything until I hot rodded it. This truck will be on the road for years while all this other plastic junk rots away. My wife has had 9 other pieces of plastic junk. Who is leaving a smaller carbon foot print. Me!
It was a fantastic engine
Had a s10 that was hell on wheels factory. With the 4.3!
Those were the best. I had like 3 vehicles with those in them. Excellent engines!
The “B-Code” 4.3 in the full size trucks was a timing gear setup. 4.3V6 was a champ!
Pulling the transmission for a timing chain job. I think I have seen it all now.
oh yeah? Do the water pump on a Ford Duratec 3.5 or 3.7 after it pissed its coolant into the oil pan or onto the ground.
You have to pull the transmission alright...because the whole engine is trash.
@@DriveCarToBar Man never seen a Duramax in a Ford before.... GJ editing that shit
@grandpa5x Pulliam I just pulled the engine on a 05 mustang 4.0. A lot easier to do the rest of the job on the engine stand...
@@DriveCarToBar water pump on the 3.5 can be done in car....super PITA, but can be done, when the job doesn't pay enough to pull the engine or trans.
Yeah these inline vortecs were failures imo. Audi has some engines with the timing chains on the transmission side of the engine as well 😂 takes a special person to be a tech
The goal is not to have the longest running, easiest to repair engine. The goal is to have you buy a new one every three years max. Sad world we live in.
Mel Superable that is why you buy a Cummins.
Leif Churchill cummins are good, its the shitty dodge body around them that makes it not a option for me
lol. buy a Cummins and you'll be replacing the truck around it instead.
I get mad on this because next to a house, cars and trucks are the second most expensive things you buy in live.. I don´t want to get a new one every few years because I want to do some other things with my money, like travelling and stuff...
the main idea they aim for is how to assemble it as quick and cheap as possible
The GM service manual actually spells out how many turns of the crank it takes to line up the links. They recommend you do it once after putting on a new timing set. FWIW I'm a former Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealer tech. All your little tips in this video are spot on!
I think all the engineers should be given a pair of pliers and a flat edge screw driver and be forced to work on their own crap for about 6 months.Their engineering would improve 100 fold.
Please no! That way we’d just end up with hundreds of new screw head formats when they get annoyed with flat heads!
@@cjeam9199 Haha
It's not that. It's dopey office workers and their addiction to minute penny pinching and the performance bonuses they gain. .01c here and .001c there adds up to $175 million dollars and to hell with the consequences.
Just did timing chain in a 06 H3. Same engine. Your video was very informative and helped me prepare for the mental grind. If I'm ever up your way, I would like to shake your hand and say Thanks! Awesome video. Keep it up.
Is this the 4 or 5 cylinder ?
ok, so, never buy a used canyon. got it. chevy stopped being something to buy in the late 90's. this bs is why.
Canyon is gmc
@@Dappersworth i know people who work in the ft wayne truck plant. chevys and gmcs go down the same assembly line, and the build sheet tells them whether it gets chevy interior and markings, or gmc. the trucks themselves are identical. they used to be different, but it's all gm corporate now.
@@handyhippie6548Oh..
@@Dappersworth are you braindead?
One of the best fix-it Videos ever. Asinine Engineering. Throw away engine.
Always remember "There is more to life than MPG".
This is why I love my 1984 Dodge with a simple 318
My96 ram with 250k original timing chain no play. Gm's are the worst at premature timing chain failures.
Love the 225 slant 6 too
@@williamwalters9403 I had to scrap my 2000 ram 1500 5.2 liter because the distributor broke. Too much time and labor to repair, cost more than blue book value
This is why I daily drive a 1982 Jeep CJ7. Mine has never given me any issues and is as reliable as my 1997 Ford Ranger that I bought new and have had for 22 years (4 cyl, 5sp XLT) . Anything that goes wrong is $5 at the auto parts store and can be worked on with duct tape and a paper clip.
I love how you call out engineers on their lack of thought for long term service. With computer modeling and analysis, there is no excuse for the difficulties to do what should be, easy maintenance.
I'm so glad I gave up on that shit ! I was a tech in 80 and 90's and GM was my brand .Now I don't need tools . I drive a mobile crane and make more money and drive a Honda.
Me too. Was a mechanic in the 80's. What a fuckin joke that was . flat rate team system 😞
@Heywood Jablowme Honda or toyota, you can't go wrong either way. I would stay away from honda V6s with VCM and belt drive though.
I hear that! I was a dealership mechanic for 25 years before I wised up and got out of it. My attitude today is " Oh, your car's broke? Here's a quarter, call someone who cares!
just stick with Toyota or honda and you won't have to worry, just make sure it a naturally aspirated engine, no turbos, no GDI, and you'll be golden, also make sure the vehicle has been out for some time before you buy brand new, just to make sure you don't buy a poorly made new model. Also, people do your homework before buying a car, every manufacturer has their bad attempts.
Engineered exactly the way they wanted it. Just like home appliances have internal parts specifically engineered to fail after so many hours. Everything in our world is becoming disposable.
And people wonder why land fills are filling up.
Except that cars today last way longer... even with having to change a timing belt every 100,000 miles. You’re doing tuneups at the same intervals now!
People make such a big deal out of it but it’s no big deal at all.
@@Bartonovich52 And vehicles do not end up in land fills. Vehicles end up in scrap metal yard, that is old cars do. New cars, there is so much plastic i am not sure where they end up. An i can guarantee that if you find a car made today, an tried this 40 years from now that is sitting in weeds you would not be able to fix, not with out a full service garage and bucket full of cash. And your comment about about tuneups and what not. Try chaining an timing chain on a chevy 3.6L or a ford coyote 5.0. Not to mention the Ford spark plug problem on the triton motors, Can you say $1000.00 for a spark plug change. I am afraid that your comment does not hold water.
Yeah...I remember the "Design to Fail" - 201 class that I had in college. Very difficult class as you had to figure out how get things to fail at a specified interval. First, you had to choose mileage versus time, choose the exact part to fail, and then figure out the materials choice to have it fail at the desired interval...yeah "engineered to fail" - great BS concept invented on the Internet by people who have never designed anything.
@@buckhorncortez You are obviously an idiot. Of course many parts are designed to last only as long as they choose.
changed the engine in one... nightmare!! to take the intake off you have to go in the wheelwell with a 3ft extention and a swivel 10mm took me about 1/2 an hour to take like 7 bolt out. to take the engine out you have to take the left engine mount out (while it's supported by the chain block) pull the engine to the left, take the right engine mount out but you can't unless you take the exhaust manifold out but there is no place at all to pull the cat between the engine and the firewall so we cut the cat off the manifold (we were replacing it anyway) to take the manifold of so that we could take the right mount out to take the engine out and it's the same
f$#@ing around to put the new one back in. each time a Colorado or Canyon in the garage I pray that it's not for an engine lol
No sugar coating here, straight & to the point. This is how honest men communicate. Seems to be fading here in the states. Good to know it's alive...
Canyon was actually on my list of potential next trucks. WAS. Thanks for the tip, Rich.
Yeah I just got an 11 Colorado and not long after I buy it starts making the timing chain noise…..shoulda just stuck with my Volvos
@@PatrickBateman88 Dang what engine was it?
overengineering ?? Sounds like under engineering to me. I call it piss poor engineering.
To me, overengineering is when something is deliberately designed to fail after XXX miles to get more money out of selling parts. BMW are just as bad. Piss poor engineering is like in a car where the numbskulls tell you to jack up a car and the jacking point isn't strong enough to lift the car without bending! Happened to my VW Golf. And those crazy Germans don't even mention that it's best to lift from all four points at once to distribute the weight. Then why do they even put a jack in the trunk to begin with...
Oh, and sometimes people moan about VW, Audi, Porsche, etc, being "overengineered." I slightly disagree. My car has piss poor engineering. When you can't even jack up a car without damaging the frame, then it's piss poor engineering! Hell, it even has a sticker with an arrow that says "jacking point."
largo a bumper jack doesn't work on my new Passat either.
BMW means ,"Big Money Wasted" I know. My wife has one, and I have to keep an old truck to tow it back to the dealer regularly. (my new truck burned out the transmission 3 times)
The GM atlas series of engines were originally supposed to go into the fourth gen camaro, but was pulled and stuck in these colorados and trailblazers. The 4cyl is junk, the 5cyl is alright, and the 6cyl is world class. People are making over 1500hp with the factory cranks in them. It's a fantastic engine platform that was fucking ruined by the greedy GM penny pinchers.
Reminds me when I was wrenching how bad GM could be to get access, Grand AM dist cap 4hrs HS!!
What a fricken pain in the ass. I don't mind a good project once in a while, but that's a load of crap. Sounds like a good candidate for a 4bt swap.
Ford Escort timing belt change is also a nightmare... Pinto was easy...
I will forever love the Ford 2.3/2.5 SOHC engines. They really don't get simpler than that. I have a 2000 Ranger 2.5 and I just did the plugs and wires, including the "dreaded" driver's side. I know I'm really competent with vehicles and mechanic work but it was a relative cake walk. The hardest things are probably getting the two little coolant hoses back on and realigning the bolts for the EGR. There are some quirks and dumb engineering on the later models like mine, but nowhere near as stupid as this Canyon.
BuzzLOLOL pinto easy but every 30kit broke on
the 2000 cc.
love my ranger. 4.0, manual trans and 2wd, roll up windows and locks. Pretty simple.
TheeJoeyLee that clutch slave cylinder can be a pain in the ass
If you are over 200k on the motor mine was a 2.9L 4 cyl, I think your best bet is to pull the motor and replace it with a Vortech V6. I pulled the V6 from a blazer that was rear ended and this particular engine was a factory rebuild with less than 20K miles on it. I had to rob some other items from my poor 99 blazer but the motor fit. The performance is a lot than that 4 cyl. My Colorado is lighter than that wrecked blazer but the milage was much better than I expected. 18 mpg in town and about 25 mpg on the interstate. That blazer was about 16 mpg. The man hours would have been similar if I chose to change those timing chains. But either way I would have pulled the 2.9L for ease of access.
This is too painful to watch.
screw all that B.S.! I'd drop in a 5.3 probably easier and cheaper! Haha
Until you get to the wiring and computer.
Indys Dad
GM offered the 5.3 in the 1st gen Colorado/Canyon, so most of the electrical work is already figured out. Pretty trivial for a swap really, considering guys are already putting LS v8's in Mazda Miatas, Nissan 350z's, even Foxbody Mustangs.
Edit: Out of curiosity I googled it. The wiring harness, engine mounts, radiator lines, power steering lines etc for a V8 swap are widely available for swapping 5.3, 5.7, 6.0, 6.2, etc into your 1st gen Colorado or Canyon.
www.currentperformance.com/product-category/engine-swap-parts/colorado-parts/
Plenty of step by step guides to see what you're getting into too.
www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/threads/04-colorado-v8-swap-lots-of-pics.112523/
Its not that hard. I did it. Its pretty straight forward. The only difficult thing was finding what you need. All of the parts from GM cost an ASS load of money haha. So i had custom lines made ect, which came out way cheaper, and looked way better.
Indys Dad swap harnesses and parts are easy and plentiful and anything thats too expensive can be done by yourself or sent out to a guy who basically only does that lol. A standalone harness and stock ecu is all you need and is like $600 including buying a 300 harness and computer....you could get it done for $300 if you went to a junkyard and did the ECM retuning(vats, rpm limit, tire size, enrichment removal) yourself
$300 for a crapped out engine that needs $600 in machine work to get back to being worth even dropping into your truck, and you will need a new ecu, you can't just retune any ecu to do whatever you want, you'd need something like a megasquirt to do that. And you will need a new wiring harness because I promise you the wiring harness for a 2.9 is nothing like that for a 5.3. Oh, and now you have an issue with your automatic transmission because that's also controlled by your ecu. No, swapping isn't just that simple or cheap.
I just got GMC canyon 2006 5 speed manual I really hope it works good for while 😃
My 2005 Canyon has 355,000 miles. Changed the Alternator at 196k and tie rod ends at 238k. I can't complain. It's been a damn good truck.
I was inspecting the rebar for a column in a library extension once. Boy Wonder architect had specified elegantly thin concrete structural elements, crammed with enormous rebar, and had diligently calculated the size of the voids needed to allow the concrete to fill the forms evenly. Because 3/4" aggregate should have no problem sneaking through a 7/8" space between bars, right? No way any individual rock could possibly become wedged.
Imagine how long it took to chip that cured concrete out when HUGE rock voids were present.
Real engines don't have timing chains or belts. They have timing gears. To me, balancing shafts are the sign of a poorly designed engine.
@D.O.A. It's actually an inline 4 in this case. The inline 5 would've been a 3.5 or 3.7 liter.
Not so fast on balance shafts. My honda blackbird has 2 and if the cam chain guess sour you pull the valve cover, knock a pin out of the chain, knock a pin out of the new chain, temp splice the together and crank the motor over until shit lines back up
No gm can't make a timing chain that lasts I drive Toyota and have never had a timing chain problem
Gee, the motor in my 4 cylinder m/c engine makes 165 hp with 1130 cc has a chain for the cam and a chain for the 2 balance shafts and has almost 100k worth of seriously hard miles on it and only had the valve cover off twice to check valve lash
@@adamwhite9665 Then you don't have a 22RE
Glad I opted for the 5.3L
..still have to deal with the wheel bearings/rotor dumbness though
what are the bearing issues?
It"s done deliberately to bring you back to the dealer. just the specialized bolts holding on the brake caliper. the dealers are usually the only ones with the wrench for 5 years
This makes me glad I sold my Colorado a few months ago. My dash looked like a Christmas tree. Frame was also shot.
I work at a dealership. Seen a little 5 speed 2wd canyon on my lot for a great price. After watching this video, I am so glad it got sold before I could come up with the money (I refuse to have a vehicle payment). Great vid, now I know to beware of these over-engineered crapbox trucks!
As soon as you said, "You gotta drop the oil pan," I dropped laughing.
Probably could've LS swapped it faster.
I haven't heard much praise for Chevy's smaller trucks.
you mean isuzu trucks?
Andrew Barcomb well that would explain it
it would stay alive with a vortec 305. Ebay has a butt ton of them.. I want all of them for go karts, mini bikes and snowmobiles and boats and and..
The s10 platform used to be a great alternative to a fullsize truck or suv. Simple reliable and pretty tough
Jeff super easy to v8 swap to
Mahk is right.
Of course there is one left had thread bolt in the mix. I've always said..."you shouldn't be allowed to be a automotive engineer unless you've worked on cars for at least five years" BTW...love the mechanics band aid.
FUCKIN A
With all the women flooding the STEM fields this is just about to go off the charts!!! Political correctness at it's finest!!
Gary Bullwinkle They have been in the auto industry for decades. The ones I worked with had it together better than the guys. And earning a degree and getting hired in ain't easy. PC my ass.
king of the world got that right and the same for lawyers telling our soldier they can and can not shoot at. strap some boots on them and send them to the front lines
you do know, the engineers do this on purpose right? its to encourage people to take their cars to the stealership to get them fixed there or to encourage people to just get a new car. its to keep business coming in. that being said it isn't necessarily the engineers fault, its the fault of management and those making business decisions. engineers just follow the requirements they are given.
Sounds fair, I'm sure you saved him a lot of money. That whole area is lucky to have you.
Pretty cool to actually get a response from you. Cool channel. Keep up the good work.
With the 3.5 in-line 5w with the 4WD you have to completely take out the suspension and the front axle in order to access the oil pan. Book time is 23 hours for the job, not including parts cost.
Ahh black tape plaster.
Great for stopping a human leak. Just keep winding it on until the red stuff stops falling out.
SimononCanondale SuperdooperBikerider saw that too. I use regular super glue now
Planned obsolescence at its finest
Those bolts are designed to stretch and only used once... if you catch someone re-using head bolts you're in trouble.
I worked at a Subaru place that reused headbolts, I told them they're crazy,should always replace head bolts
I have a screw loose
I always reuse Subaru head bolts and never a problem. I'll let you Google why. bolts are not "just" bolts. many design's and types
Are you referring to the timing chain? How is that "planned obsolescence at it's finest?"
And you were saying that GM engineering makes soooooo much more sense than Ford. LOL just giving you a hard time, love the videos keep em coming!
LS7 or Bust it is isuzu. I have an isuzu and the engine design is absured. The alternator is at the bottom of the engine where a non removable skid plate lives
thats a chevy i5 not an isuzu isuzu makes bulletproof 4cyl diesels they put in the box vans
James Flores Exactly. If it's not that it's their own 4 cyl.
In Japan they simply replace the whole engine instead of the timing chain. That is why it's designed the way it is.
It's chevys i5 not isuzus atlas is the company who makes them for chevy
Loved our little Colorado 2.9L for the same reasons. It was a great runabout until it hit 100K miles. Then the timing chain stretched to the point the check engine light came on, even with perfect maintenance. I was able to change it all out without removing the intake (plastic, it bends over) and I pitched the rear chain in the garbage, 'cause screw that nonsense! It ran well enough to keep the light off, pass smog and we sold it before the next craptastic nightmare breakdown occurred. BTW, its a good idea to replace the cam phaser while you have everything off. It was surprisingly cheap from the dealer and makes for a complete job.....(he says, as the new rear balancer chain rusts away in a landfill!)
Hey what year colorado was this?
@@larsonny77 Pretty sure it was about a 2010. Just a base model, fleetwhite truck with no options. The other major issue was the heater blend doors breaking very early on in the truck's life......other than that, it was a great vehicle.
Thank you! My '08 is needing a timing chain and/or cam gear. This review, today, is saving me about $3K ... and the followup detailing other issues certainly was the deciding factor.
the ford 4.0 is also the same way, timing chain in the back
Had one, worst design ever!
If I was foolish enough to have purchased that POS, I would've called a wrecker before I'd drop 4k on a timing chain repair.
I'm no millionaire, but there's a point where you are pouring money down a rathole.
He figured the truck didn't owe him anything and its still cheaper than buying a new truck. There was almost no rust on it and the brakes were still original.
Excellent job detailing the repair. A ton of work, but a successful job.
Peace man.
it cost 4 grand to do the chains on this pos what are they made fro unubtanium ?
The parts are probably less than a couple of hundred, the 20+ hours of labour....
luviskol the ford ecoboost is built like this to replace the water pump,fuel injectors etc you have to tear the engine apart fuck these new automobiles, this is what happens when you let accountants design anything.
"Every engineer that worked on this was in a different room and didnt talk to any other engineers when they built this thing" This is true of most cars designed and built today lol
Wow, wish I would have stumbled upon this video earlier as I just bought a 2010 canyon for quite cheap that had a check engine light on. Just got it diagnosed at the shop and it's the timing chain and they told me it would be about $3300 Canadian and around 20 shop hours. And the truck only has just over 90k km's on it. Frustrating but I should have researched more before buying, thought I was getting a screaming deal.
My first vehicle was a 91 Chevy S10, miss how simple and reliable that truck was....until my sister got her hands on it, haha.
I did the same job on a 03 Envoy with the inline 6 AWD in my driveway. To this vary day it remains the biggest PITA job I have ever done. Good luck to anyone who is up for that challenge.
The best thing to do with one of these engines would be to drive until it grenades and then swap in a V8.
That's the trend with these trucks (V8) Seen one that is diesel swapped.
Pretty sure this is Saab motor in these trucks.
@@Bumblebee4788 Grave digging here but Saab helped engineer Ecotec, not Atlas, which is what these trucks run. There was a Saab 9-7X 4.2i that used the 4.2 I6 Atlas (good engine) but that's about it connection wise with Atlas and Saab.
Our buy one that came with a factory 5.3L V8 which is what i did
It's very odd that there isn't a method by which you can break a link on the old chain, temporarily attach the new chain to it and then thread the new chain in while pulling the old one out. The last step of the process is to connect the two ends of the new chain together using a special (read expensive) tool that properly peens the joining pin. I had to replace the chain in my old Diesel Benz and did it that way.
Yeah that’s the way the old mercs were done. But there proper engines tho and normally a chain on one of them isn’t fucked till at least 500k anyway. Was yours stretched?
All wishful thinking ..
Dreaming of that Perfect Timing chain Girlfriend 😄
An un-chainable girl, one easy to replace, free of tension and wear.
A girl needing no guides or guidance to direct her as she endlessly rotates only to discover Top Dead Centre and lobes without earrings 😄😄
Pretty decent video. Wish you would have filmed the trans removal though 😅 I have an 08 with the 2.9L (inline 4). Bought it brand new in August 2007. At about 55k miles or so I got the P0017 code (exhaust cam position sensor) but I continued to drive it until I was due for emissions test around 70k miles or so. Turned out to be the timing chain so I pulled the mofo apart in my driveway early September of '16 and replaced the timing chain, guides and tensioner. I also replaced the cam phaser which I noticed in the video you guys did not do. I skipped on doing the balance shaft chain though because I didn't have the equipment on hand to pull the fuggin trans off and back, and I ran out of time on my 4 day weekend. Needless to say, here I am 2 years later, due for emissions end of August and the P0017 is back again. I think this chain went bad even sooner this time because I skipped on doing the balance shaft chain, but I can't say for sure. I've had this truck for 10 years now and only have 97k miles on it. Shittiest thing is it has always driven fine even with the code and stretched chain, but it does throw the P0017 code and loses a little gas mileage. I'm going to either trade it in or buy a new engine. Still debating... Biggest POS design IMO. Also, the cam phaser is advanced and retarded via engine oil pressure to the cam actuator solenoid which is also a possible cause of the P0017 code and is an easy fix, but more than likely the shitty chain will be stretched. The new Colorados look better and bigger and come with V6 and even diesels too. But I'm still thinking of switching to Ford even though I've always been a Chevy guy since my first vehicle that was an '84 S10 4 speed V6.
Same thing for a trailblazer. So many problems with those things unless you have the ss which is a pushrod v8
Props to you guys. I'm just going to sell mine for whatever it brings.
I stopped buying general motors products long ago.
You call that over engineered? You must not be familiar with Audi 4.2 engines...
Matt Mauro Don't leave out BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Porsche! They've all put out some over-engineered nightmares in the last decade or so.
Lets just throw volkswagen too because "German Engineering" comes with a hefty price tag.
And they are still not reliable.
BMW N47 diesel is a nightmare too.
They're pretty with the timing chain cover off. Intimidating even.
Over engineered? I think that it is under engineered. A good engineer would try to engineer it so you could work on it easier than this.
Not any more bud
Mabye 20 years ago... Now cars are engineered to fail at a certain point and be too expensive to repair. Its a common practice as my dad is an engineer(compliance).
Good engineers don't work at GM
Glad I found yall .......iv pulled q head once on a 2.9l rado for a buddy who broke a timing chain ... ..im big on the 2.9 colorados so he told be tear it apart cuz he's scrapping it ( it was trashed but I did it cuz I knew one day I'd have to do timing set on mine . And yesterday was that day lol 😆 iv so far in 48 mins I got the intake ,fuel rail and valve cover off ....I dint know about the balance shaft tho .....good looking out and wish me luck lol 😆 .....20 years of thus stuff for a living and it never gets Easter
Exactly why I love pushrod engines, so much easier and simple to work on.
And I thought the 4.0 Ford mustang engine had bad timing chains.
So two questions, what else should be fixed on an engine when you have it stripped down that far and 2, what did you do with all the left over parts after you reassembled the engine?
Water pump
stuff like that I end up leaving out those hidden bolts or modifying the covers so I don't have to take extra stuff off next time
SPEED PARTS!
That hidden bolt is for the pickup tube.. probably better not leave it out lol
@@jeffel80 He's trying to polish a terd so it slips out easier. Nothing wrong with that unless you like constipation
Im not trying to find fault in anything your doing Rich..just a piece of advice a "old time mechanic" gave me years ago...if you ever need to lock up a engine (removing a balancer bolt )..use a piece of cotton rope and shove it down a spark plug hole.rotate the engine till piston comes up to t.d.c..Rotate engine in reverse direction to remove..saved my ass many a time...love your channel bud
This is most likely an Isuzu engine.the part that get me is a chain on both sides of the engine,not to mention the drive axle going throw the oil pan on the 4wd option,but most people that buy new vehicles don't work on them
Ford Rangers have the wheel bearings infront of the brakes on the front. My buddy found that out the hard way
Honestly? I was raised in a family of GM employees. My grandfather was an engineer for them his whole life. I've owned vehicles of all makes and models, and I've had very little go wrong with any of them. Why? I read up on THAT SPECIFIC MODEL/ENGINE/TRANSMISSION combination before spending a penny. Just because one vehicle from whatever company is piss reliable and cheap NEVER means that if it came with "insert terrible engine here" for example, it won't be a different story. Even newer Hondas, Toyotas, etc., have certain years/model/engine/trans combos that you want to avoid like the plague.
I've noticed a steep decline in quality at GM since around 07/08, particularly in the motor and electrical department, especially the electrical stuff.
MeMad Max Really? Based on my experiences, GM quality has been improving a lot since 2008 (their trucks in particular). That being said there are some early to mid-2000's GM vehicles I want nothing to do with. Their 4.3/5.3/6.0/6.2 engines are all solid, other than the cylinder deactivation junk, but that's an easy one to avoid and easy to get rid of. I'd take any of those engines over a used Ford 5.4 or 4.0v6. Even the 3.5/3.7 Duratec and the idiotic timing chain-driven water pump buried inside the engine valley is a nightmare waiting to happen.
Oh, I guess I should've mentioned that the electrical issues seem to be focused on gm cars, not the trucks. But the mechanical stuff like you see in this vid are on both trucks and cars. We are a used vehicle dealership, so we see it all. However, the worst of the worst is german engineering: VW/AUDI. I always have at least one stall with a fine deutsches völkerfahrzeug in it requiring major repair work of some sort.
hochhaul knock on wood my 05 Silverado 5.3 has been a really good truck, especially the engine.
it was probably built on a Wednesday.
So, funny story from another youtuber. Nivlac57 is known for making big power out of the 4.2l L6 Atlas motors. Like 600+ on stock bottom end and 800+ with new rods and pistons.
He worked on a couple of the 4-cyl motors and from what he's said, you can eliminate the the balance shafts and not have to worry about the chains on the back. He never said if he removed them and plugged the oil holes, or just removed the chains and left the shafts in place. You might be able to save a chunk of money if you own one of these by just not bothering with the rear chains. You'll have to pull the transmission once to get the chains out, but after that you'll never need to pull it again til its time for a clutch.
I had a ‘06 Colorado 2.8L and at 78,000 miles the exhaust value seats went bad. Fortunately the dealership covered the replacement head and labor. Sold it the day after it came out of the shop.
I bought mine new in Nov 2006 I am @ 186k miles now i have timing chain noise+metal in the oil. It's not a big problem $300 in parts and I have been mechanic for 20 years. The problem is the time it takes to replace it, I live in silicon valley stealership shop rate is $160 hour. If I get another 150k miles i would not be surprised she's a fine truck.
Those sprockets look flimsy, like bicycle flimsy.
Sprockets are solid but the chain and tensioner foot design are shit. I've worked on many of these inline vortecs.
Ford is so guilty of the same damn thing.
Yep
They all are. It's not specific to one maker. The whole my vehicle is better cause so an so makes it stupid. They all make shit that fails, they all do stupid shit to make things hard to work on.
Yeah, it took three mechanics almost half an hour to change a bulb on my ford Ka. Although it was only one mechanic for most of that time
In other cars I can do it myself in a few minutes
Yep. The 4.0 V6 has one in the back.
bought my first truck a 2005 chevy colorado for $200 because the timing chain was going. spend $750 on parts and hours later I had a perfect running first truck.
Wanna come over to my house and replace the timing chain on my 2006? :)
Hours or days?
My sister just bought an 09 canyon. 5.3😎 I do all the repairs for my families vehicles as I am a mechanic and work at a Mercedes dealership. The 5.3 isn’t too bad just alittle tighter than the Silverado and shorter exhaust manifolds. I’m good on those chains as I only have one on the 5.3 :) lol sister loves it just bought. 1 week ago with 49k miles on it. And the bearings well it is what it is lol
Doing this job on an 09 Colorado. For anyone wondering, I got the crank bolt loose using this method with a 2 foot 1/2" drive snap on flex head ratchet, no cheater bar.
It sucked the whole time doing it, but it can be accomplished with a 1/2" if you got a good one.
Also, gotta say thanks deboss. This video was mighty helpful as a preliminary to know what I was getting into. I use a labor estimator so i knew at 19.6 hours it was a big job, but I dont have alldata or Mitchell's. So that small little details like cracking loose the cranks bolt, the left hand thread bolt on the balance shaft, helpful info before i dove in.
I was 2-timed by the 2 timing chains...
Tacoma owners: "Dafuq?"
I usually just talk the customer into replacing the whole engine for just a little bit more $, if I remember correctly eagle engine sales this engine with a warranty for 3,000-3,500$
Thats USD. Its roughly 4200-4700 CAD + shipping, and taxes. Just the chain is a lot less...
I have a trailblazer with the I6 version of this engine, the timing chain replacement kit is only $150, but the rest of it is in labor, for a DIY person, an engine swap would be easier in all honesty.
It is so refreshing to hear you guys speaking metric.
It makes so much more sense.
Hey Rich Paul B here I just stumbled on this video. I work at a GM dealership and when I do that timing chain job..... it's sad to say but I take a page outta the Ford book and lift the cab and nose off the frame. It takes hours off the time... being a flat rate tech I try to find the easiest and quickest way. Lol love your channel
its sad that people that design these flaws get paid big $ and the back yard mechanic tryn to make ends meet could design something far better n more efficient
Negative sir. these engines today may be a pain to work on, and we might cuss em. but to say a backyard mechanic could design something more efficient is a foolish thing to say. do you know what efficient means? so your telling me your average backyard mechanic can write a CPU program to monitor a network of sensors to add just the right amount of varying fuel from millisecond to millisecond based on the varying compression ratios and varying volatility of the mixture, due to varying camshaft degreeing, which is based on engine load and speed? every single aspect I just mentioned involves extremely complicated mathematics and scientific principles. and we're not even getting into the half of it. lol ....a backyard mechanic can do lots... sure... but he can't do that.
The problem is one that is very prevalent in all industry currently... there is too much emphasis on education over real world experience... IMHO anyways
I do "backyard mechanic" stuff to make ends meet, and YES..... there are many backyard mechanics that could design a better system than many of these over engineered, self important bloated stuffed shirt professional engineers at car companies do.... Ever hear of Preston Tucker? the truth is that it's a question of intelligence, not collected book learning and formulas. Yes some things do require the application of formulas and complex ideas to solve, but good OLD FASHIONED organization and syntax cannot be taught in any school or substituted. And If I need to use a complex formula for a specific purpose, I can find and use that information. Yes, I can write a CPU program and do regularly with arduino..... There are many mechanical problems, mechanical and basic design flaws that I have solved by making new, better parts for and have seen this done even on old farm tractors from 50 yrs ago. You guys place waaaay too much importance on a degree and not enough on common sense. Sorry, I just had to jump on a soap box for a second. This presents an opportunity though, I will look for one of these with a bad timing chain, rip that over engineered POS engine out of it and put a modded 1.9l VW TDI in one and sell it as a better vehicle
I'm a design engineer and I worked for GM in the past and we were held back by management from what we wanted to do if it was our car/truck. Most engineers want to do a good job but it is the suits on the 14th floor who only know the bottom line who get to make decisions. It was a joke that the most popular cars among the engineering staff were Toyota, Audi/VW, and Honda.
there design flaws so you trade it,.
What a mess I would have crushed it into a tiny cube. I see you mentioned brakes behind a wheel bearing. I just changed the brakes/rotors on my fathers 2007 Chev Colorado 4x4 and when I seen how they came off I was like WTF?? and debated on even doing it.
The rotor is bolted on so that it comes off backwards! You have to remove the Usual caliper bracket but then you have to remove the axle nut and the damn bearing carrier and try not to damage the abs wires etc then haul everything off.. . What a shitty design that is.. It took me at least 4x as long as it would to change normal rotors that come off once the tire and caliper bracket is taken off, and i had to buy the 30 dollar socket to get the axle nut off as well. I guess the only valid reason for this design is to make back yard mechanics think twice and then take it into the shop and pay out of the ass. FU GM.
wish they built trucks like they used to. my 05 silverado z71 is really good tho
Superior my ass the rear drum brakes are a real pain in the ass with that w parking brake crap i can do the fronts no problem they are like the old pathfinders and fro tiers but what i don't understand why the fuck is the abs cable attached to the damn bearing all they had to do is put a connector on the damn bearing
I had 2 GM cars. Never again. Not in my life time. These cars are designed to fail.
MetaView7 isn’t everything in this world designed to fail? Just a thought.
@@ashmore_ofcl_3305 No. Everything will eventually fail but not designed to fail.
I'm currently in the middle of replacing the timing chain/tensioner/guides set on this engine (282K miles) and had a thought after watching this and other vids. Wish I would have thought about it before 20+ hours of dissambly. I would rather have cut through the oil pan (while mounted) to expose this bolt, hold the pickup tube in place with a pair of vice grips. Remove the bolt. Do the front timing chain set replacement. Re-install the pick up tube bolt. Weld a patch on the oil pan.
I had seriously considered one of these trucks, this video showed me the light. 11:32 onward
Best line ever; "You can't even take a link out!" Who does that?
Syd Syd that's creativity my friend 😉
Syd Syd used car lots
Thank God my truck is a Studebaker.
I wouldn't say over-engineering but rather bad design, i'd say over-engineering is having 20+ modules on a single car, that is just fucking excessive
would you rather rather replace one small computer or 1 big one?
Yeah, "over-engineered" traditionally has meant engineered to withstand higher stresses than the application will see, so it never breaks. Highway bridges are an example.
hey buddy, my first truck was a 1990 chevy s10 4.3 and a 5spd 4x4. that truck was my dads and he gave it to me when it was on her last legs drove her for a couple years in highschool, burning coolant and changing the oil very often. it knocked and rattled like a sive. i loved that truck but not reliable at all because it had 300k on it. my next truck was a 1984 s10 2.8 v6 and a 4spd and 4x4. i love my truck. anything that goes wrong with it i can fix it myself. i just re did most of the wiring from the cab to the back lights. never messed with wiring but replacing all that really made me understand and understand it isnt a hard job at all. ive put a clutch in it and cam shaft for a little more pep to the dog of a engine 2.8. put pretty much everything in the thing from radiator to axle shafts. did that 2 years ago and since i did all that work to it, it is the most reliable vehicle ive ever been in. -40 below fires right up. i crank on it for 15 seconds when its cold out then pump the gas pedal a few times and she fires right up. been in over 2 feet of snow in 4low with very aggressive snow tires and chains on. she goes anywhere. ill forever own a pre 1993 s10.
2:10 or set the breaker bar against the frame rail, go inside the truck and tap the starter, and it will break the bolt loose for you.
Thankfully my engines are OHV no timing problems ever
Easier to remove the engine first? Electrical tape on finger! ha ha...
Thats what i was saying.;
Been there, done that!
Black elect, tape is only thing that will stay in grease and oil. super glue also works well on cuts.
I have an 07' 3.7l
Nissan is similar, i replaced the head gasket on an 08 nissan titan, had to pull the engine, pull both halves of the oil pan, then pull the timin cover then finally pull the head, oh and the entire grill setup had to come off to pull the engine (didn't have a lift to pull the engine from under)
But the guy has put close to 80,000 hard miles on it since then, it's still running great
I had a trailblazer 4x4 with the 4.2... The front diff passed through the pan! I needed to remove the whole diff and the oil pan if I wanted to change the oil pump in front. When the front diff gave up, I sent it to the scrap yard.
I believe this engine was designed by Isuzu. Honestly I would have pulled the engine out of the bay for this. It sounds like more work but in reality its less time because you aren't working around all the bullshit in the bay.
Travis Callahan not a isuzu engine
The I series engines are designed by Isuzu and manufactured by GM. I promise. That's why the Isuzu trucks share a drive line. They are sister vehicles.
Travis Callahan the I engines they are atlus engines
Travis Callahan when my stepfather had to do one of these he did just pull the engine
You'd think it would have been easier to put a sixth piston on that engine than TWO freaking balance shafts.
I know, right? I was just thinking about that. Then again, they probably had all the factory tooling setup when they realized it.
Oh shit guys why are we designing these two balance shafts to keep this sack of shit from vibrating all too hell. we could have just put another cylinder on it.. Awww for f*(((KS sake guys..
The 4.3Lt Vortec V6 has a balancer shaft in it to, not a GM guy but I think the 5.3lt vortec does as well, it seems to be common on the Chevys I've worked on. Ford balances the crankshaft and use a vibration damper to help with unbalance on an engine. I find that most car manufactures now days build stuff they don't want you to work on, there designed to carry to a certified technician however half the time they cant figure it out either.
Yes the 4.3 does have a balancer shaft due to the fact that its a 90 degree v6 which is inherently imbalanced. 60 degree v6 don't use balance shaft. Nor do the Chevrolet v8s. The 5 cylinder is clearly imbalanced and needs balance shafts..
Ford 351 Cleveland was a 90 degree engine and it had no balance shaft and was very balanced due to the inner workings of the engine, Ford balances the crankshaft very well so they have less need for balancing externally. Reid Henderson, Inline engine need less balancing due to all pistons are going in the same direction. Inline engines will run a lot smoother then a V8 or 90 Deg. just by design alone.
looks like these same d bags engineered the 3.0 duramax
Sad thing is that Isuzu already makes a 3.0l diesel in the 4JJ1 series. It's a great motor that sees use in Colorados in other countries and the NPR ECO in the USA. They are rugged and reliable. 300k mile engine even if you abuse it. She gives no fucks, but GM decided that the thing Isuzu does really goddamn well; their diesels, just wasn't worth the effort.
Fucking stupidasses.
Just sit the breaker bar against the chassis or have it sit on the ground and crank it with the key and it will undo the balancer nut
Love the chain vice-grips idea Thanks