Which Persona has the BEST Bad Ending?
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- Now they may be Bad, but which of them are the least bad actually?
Follow up sequel with the WORST Good Ending coming soon? Maybe?
How odd that this Series starts with Persona 3 instead of Persona 1 or 2
Oh well - Ігри
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I interpret the P5 deal ending to have Joker just controlling the Phantom Thieves on a subconscious level, just his tools. The God of Control did promise a world to Jokers liking, it gives more of a twisted end for the Phantom Thieves. They become what the people feared them as, but they can never have the mind to speak up about it now.
"Wait you forgor about persona 3!"
This game doesnt have bad endings, just sad ones.
You mentioned it a little bit but yeah my favorite bad ending has to be when you don't choose to either defeat Maruki nor accept his deal. Theres just something so incredibly harrowing about Maruki as he decides to take the matter into his own hands and force you to infinite slumber. And the way the camera zooms out to show the cobwebs all over Jokers room is an image that has fully stuck with me since I learned about that ending.
There's still the ending where Akechi murders Joker. I think it'd probably rank below Persona 4's bad endings, as the entire world is in immediate danger of Yaldobaoth's takeover, whereas in Persona 4's bad endings, really only the small town of Inaba is in danger, given the fog doesn't spread.
That intro is all I needed to see thank you
In maruki's world, you're free to feel sad, to feel mad, or to hate, but there just is no reason to. All is right with what maruki can see, and he sacrifices everything about himself just to give other people their best life. It's not that maruki forces you to be happy. It's that he makes it so that there's no real good reason to NOT feel happy. I'm not saying what maruki did was right, I'm just saying what he did wasn't wrong.
No actually Maruki does change cognition so that the person is happy in the situation that he puts them in. He completely changes who you are. This is clearly illustrated in the ending where you accept his offer. Your characters all forget everything and seem happy, even Akechi who acts the most differently. Instead of being who he was, he's who Maruki believes Joker wants him to be. Here's another situation. There's a woman who was being abused by her boyfriend and she finally gained the courage to leave him. In Maruki's world, she never left the man because Maruki believed that the two would be haopier together despite what the boyfriend had done to the woman, and the woman didn't get a real choice in the matter. Her cognition had been altered so she was happy with the choice.
There was also a planned valentines cutscene for if the player had romanced all of the women. By default, if the player romances more than one girl the other girls get mad and basically beat him up as a consequence. Most people don't like it when their lover cheats on them or tries to date multiple people at once. And yet in the planned scene, it was going to show that this version of Joker had a harem and all of the girls were happy to be cheated on. I assume they chose not to go with the scene because they wanted Maruki's offer to be more ambiguous and a harem event would be much more on the nose.
What people Maruki fans often forget or don't realize is that Maruki's goal isn't to make everybody happy, that's a secondary effect he wants, but not the thing he is aiming for most. His goal is to remove suffering, and it's based on his own idea of what suffering is. Think of it like this: There's a new video game out and it's really difficult. You keep trying and trying but you are having a hard time. For many players, the difficulty is part of the draw. They will throw themselves against the wall for hours, weeks, or even longer, because when they finally overcome that challenge, it would have been worth it to them.
But other players don't see it that way. They may give up long before they could ever beat it or they may give up right away.They may not find overcoming a challenge to be fun. Instead, trying over and over only brings them suffering. Some even feel bad that others play those difficult games. Now Maruki's palace reveals that he's the kind of person that thinks that if you come across any real amount of difficulty in a situation, that you could suffer from not achieving your dream and it is better to just give up. In real life we already know that some people would not be truly happy if they just gave up their dreams, if they just turned away every time they reached any difficulty. They became stronger through their experiences and pushed through to what they want. TBF this obviously doesn't work for everybody.
But in Maruki's world, he would change it so that you think you are happy. It doesn't matter what your situation is, you would end up "happy" because you wouldn't ever "suffer". Unfortunately, his world is not really any more different from what Yaldabaoth was implementing. Both think they know what is best for everybody. Both think this is what people want. The difference is that merely how it is presented to the player. Both are cognitive prisons for everybody.
@@AlbedoAtoned he rewrite's your mind so that you believe that your new reality is the one that's always been, the only changes to your way of thinking is the changes that would naturally happen had the events he changed really happened. So let's say your best friends all died horrific deaths related to vehicles, so, naturally, you would gain a fear of vehicles. Now let's say maruki made it so that your best friends DIDN'T get killed in horrible vehicular accidents, so, naturally, you would have never gained you fear of vehicles as you had no reason to, so in the new timeline, you wouldn't have that fear, and in its place, maybe an interest in something your friends would have told you about had they not died. What maruki is doing is incredibly morally gray, but that doesn't make what he's doing bad. Your hypothetical situations are not even hypothetical, they're lunacy, it's completely contradictory to what maruki believes in. Maruki helps people based on what THEY tell him, not what he thinks, so let's say he did bring that lady and her boyfriend back together. why is that? Because in his new timeline, they never broke up, because whatever led to the guy being abusive never happened, meaning they would have no good reason to break up. The reason Akechi is like how he pretended to be, is because that's what joker wanted, yes, but it's also because Akechi acted like he never went insane, like he never had a terrible childhood, like he never even knew he was a literal bastard/knew who his father was. He acted like he was fine, so in the new timeline, he would act like he was fine because he actually was fine.
If it didn't make it into the final game, it's not canon.
Yes, that IS his primary goal, but...
Maruki's definition of suffering, is feeling great physical or psychological distress to the point it negatively impacts the other aspects of your life, like kasumi/sumire, she was traumatized, so he just simply made her think she was her sister, which yes, is mind control, but he didn't have reality warping powers yet, so he used the duck tape solution, which yes, was most certainly wrong, but it helped short term. And who knows, maybe he would eventually make it so kasumi never died, making it so sumire never would have met maruki and that duck tape fix was never used because it wouldn't have been necessary.
How is "nobody has any good reason to feel sad, so the world is bright, beautiful, and just all around nice" the same as "everyone is on autopilot, and will all die alone because they have zero free will, and thus will never get anyone to love them"? Yaldabaoth doesn't truly care what the people want, maruki ONLY cares about what others want. Maruki is willing to die trying to make people not suffer, and sees himself as a means to an end for other people to be free from their real pains, not their "this level is too hard" pains, like, you could ask any other psychiatrist and they will just say "take a break, get good, and try again later". It doesn't need him, but something like "my father died in front of me, and now I see him in the shadows", that is something he will fix by making it so their father never died.
If a protagonist did something this morally gray, I'm sure you would be like "That was so heroic of them!" "They made everyone happy!" "They saved everyone in the world at the cost of anyone knowing he even existed, let alone being the one who saved them!" But no, he lost, and to the player character no less, he's obviously the villain. He isn't a villain. He's barely a hero. He's a tragic antagonist, and an anti-hero, that's what he is. But you couldn't look past your player bias. Just like in genocide undertale, you can't comprehend you not being the infallible hero, so blame a face you barely knew, nut understanding that that face was you, chara, the player CHARActer, was the one responsible for your actions. But that's a tangent, though still hammering in the truth. You can't see yourself as anyone but the infallible hero, that you you could be just as morally gray as the enemy you were fighting, that maruki wasn't evil. No. You could never believe that. So you vilified him, not once thinking you were overreacting. I am not a maruki fan, not in the way you meant it, I just understand where he's coming from.
@@shaddowofthelost1750 I don't think you get it. The game makes it clear by the end that he's working on a distorted set of ideas of what suffering is. Several characters remark on the changes maruki makes, and often these changes were completely unnecessary.
For example, Yusuke brings up a fellow artist that was changed to taking up archery because he was in a slump, which is something most in creative fields go through at some point or another.
If you make it to the end of the semester and choose to take his offer, he completely overrules Sumire's desire to live her own life by making her "Kasumi" again.
His theme song beckons the listener to give up your dreams and let him decide your life for you.
Suffering is a part of life. People are born, they live their life, and no matter what they will die be it from other people, diseases, or old age. It sucks losing a loved one from any circumstance, but life goes on. You never do fully "heal", you will likely always miss that person, but you can grow stronger from it. Which is what ultimately happened to Futaba, Haru, and Sumire. Some of the worst things happened to them and the other P5 characters and they ultimately refuse to let those things define them.
To be fair, growing from hardship isn't easy, But that's why the characters are there for one another to help them get through their dark times.
Maruki's world was a utopia that never would have worked without people giving up free will. The woman who was put back with the abusive boyfriend illustrates just how messed up it all is. You might see it as okay because Maruki changed the cognition of the two so that he was nice. But that's not your decision to make. It shouldn't have been his. It's no different from brainwashing.
You also missed the point of the Valentines scene I mentioned. The point was that in Maruki's world, he is the one that decides what makes others happy. He already showed it in other ways. The scene itself existing in the game would have been the game hammering the issue of giving him godlike powers to control cognition home. It not being in the game doesn't mean he's correct, because there is still more in the game that shows he isn't.
For instance, all throughout the game, Joker has been a prisoner of Yaldabaoth. This is why he wears the striped outfit in the Velvet Room throughout the game. The game also states that in the depths of Mementos there is a high security cell for a very dangerous inmate, and that inmate turns out to be Joker.
If you accept Yaldabaoth's deal, the Phantom Thieves can roam free again and become the stars of the masses. but they will be slaves to Yaldabaoth, trapped in the Velvet Room cells like Joker. So you all free yourselves, and take out Yaldy.
Then days later, Joker finds himself a prisoner yet again. Maruki's utopia is not any different from the prison that Yaldy was running. He views himself a kinder ruler but he is a ruler nonetheless. Before Joker even showed up in Shibuya, Yaldy was already toying with Akechi.
Akechi is somebody that has the most to gain from Maruki's world. In his reality, he died. But in Maruki's world, he's back to being the detective prince people love, and Akechi absolutely hates it. He's been toyed with by others his whole life, and would rather go back to being dead than be toyed with by yet another.
Other things to remember. If the player doesn't secure the route in time, Maruki puts Joker into an eternal slumber separate from anybody. Lavenza appears to die as well. Call me crazy, but I can't imagine this makes Joker "happy". Nor would it make those who cared about him happy either.
If Maruki is able to bring back the dead, why didn't he just bring back Kasumi and have Sumire be herself in his ideal world? If Maruki is willing to alter reality so an abuser was "a good person" why didn't he change Shido's history into being a good person? The game literally lampshades the third at one point by asking the player what the difference between totalitarianism and authoritarianism is. There's also the fact he has a palace in the first place. The palaces are stated to form when one has distorted desires. They all have a theme associated with one of the deadly sins, Maruki's palace is themed on sorrow.
Personally, I don't think Maruki is a terrible person.I would say he's a bad therapist and counselor (and this has been backed up by actual counselors too). I also think that he has some distorted views on dreams and relationships. In the end, him becoming a taxi driver is for the best. Somebody in a recent stream I watched said it best "He's now taking people to where THEY want to go."
@@AlbedoAtoned but did he start out with that distortion, or did it come later?
Taking a break from your passion to temporarily pursue a new hobby is a perfectly healthy thing to do when you're in a slump, and if you enjoy that new hobby even more, well then, that's that. Is there any evidence that maruki forced that guy to pursue archery, or did that guy choose that for himself?
Ok, this goes back to the he got distorted later thing, in his "I can fix it even if it costs me everything" craze, he probably just reapplied the proverbial duck tape and was like, "it worked last time, it can continue working, this is a minor issue." Most people sweep problems with simple solutions already in place to the back, especially all the more so when he has undoing the deaths of his patients loved ones to do.
One, he could be talking to specifically joker, who was being extremely problematic to him, and two, he got distorted later, so his "I can help you" mindset got turned into a "LET ME HELP YOU!" mindset. Also, I'm not sure you know this, but, psychiatrists are just kinda allowed to control you life basically, and not just the ones that gained the power to warp time and space.
My brother in Christ, he was going off what the MAIN CHARACTERS THEMSELVES asked for, like, this is an important plot point, it's not his fault they changed their minds without him knowing.
Oh, so, going back in time and removing the stimulus that caused your father to become a drunken mess who beat you is brainwashing now? Tell me, the being who understands how space-time manipulation works more about this spice-time manipulation brainwashing works. If they had no reason to break up, they wouldn't have broken up, and maruki wouldn't just make it so the two never met, because he doesn't want to separate two lovers, not like when he first awakened his persona, and it just deleted maruki from his ?girlfriend?'s memories.
I did address the Valentine's day scene, if it didn't happen, it's not canon
Why are you bringing up the stuff with yaldabaoth? He is almost entirely unrelated. Again maruki's world v.s. yaldy's world is the difference between "sadness doesn't exist because there is no reason to be sad" and "sadness doesn't exist because emotions don't truly exist".
He hated it because he was still the Akechi from the original timeline, and thus is astronomically salty about anyone trying to exert any kind of force over him
Yeah, well, it didn't make maruki happy either, so that's a factor. There's also the fact that to get that ending, you kinda have to sit on your *ss for a month, so there's also that. You won't accept his world, you won't challenge his world, so you might as well "won't" forever, including "won't starve" apparently, because that was a lot of dust and cobwebs, and he didn't look even the slightest bit skinnier, and I went off on a tangent again, point being, he won't let you cause a ruckus just because it's not your original world and then do nothing about it, so he regretfully drained you of your ability to.
First, he didn't have his ability to warp reality at the time, so he just, as I said before, duck tape fixed it. And before you bring up the scene with maruki's lover, persona users are usually far stronger at their awakening than they are a ways but after awakening. About Shido, he probably did, during his big makeover of the world, but Akechi remembered the previous world, so he didn't care, and just be-ed the hater he is.
His distorted desire is to help others even if it costs him everything, and if I had to fault anyone, it would be maruki's persona, as personas and shadows are the same thing, just applied differently. also, sorrow is not a deadly sin, that has negative connotations for sorrow.
He was just doing what people asked him to do, except with that couple, that was probably mostly just trauma, it's not his fault that his information was faulty. Also, he very much has his own trauma to deal with, he just didn't because he's like, "I cAn HeLp PeOpLe, WhY wOuLd I nEeD tO hElP mYsElF!?!?1?"
So again, maruki was not wrong. He wasn't wright, but he wasn't wrong. He was broken, and his heart distorted just enough for it to snowball.
@@shaddowofthelost1750 "Taking a break from your passion to temporarily pursue a new hobby is a perfectly healthy thing to do when you're in a slump, and if you enjoy that new hobby even more, well then, that's that. Is there any evidence that maruki forced that guy to pursue archery, or did that guy choose that for himself?" There's a differencce between taking a break and giving up entirely. The game makes it clear which one Maruki means. He doesn't say, put if off until later, he says give up. In his palace he asks the player and other characters what they would do if they were trying to pursue a dream and having difficulties reaching it, the "corrrect" answer according to Maruki is give up the dream. If you chose to keep trying, then Maruki thinks you are wrong and need his "treatment"
And I'm wondering if you actually paid attention to the game or not. Did you actually play the game because you cannot tell me that Maruki changing somebody's entire life so that they are in a different profession was them choosing another profession. Maruki chose that, not the artist. If the artist had wanted to go into archery he would have chosen it without somebody altering reality. When Maruki is defeated, I doubt the guy went and threw away his passion for art and became an archer, he likely worked through his slump or if that didn't work out, he might take up a different hobby for a bit. But the difference is that would have been his own choice.
The game makes it absolutely clear that accepting Maruki's offer means giving up free will.Free will is what allows you to make decisions. You may use your free will in ways that may or may not make you happy. You may also make others unhappy either willingly or not through your actions. In order to achieve Maruki's ideal world, he has to take away free will and choose for you. Many absolutely would give up their free will. In the depths of mementos many shadows talked about how hard life was for them, and how much easier it was to go on without thinking for themselves.
And again, look how he overwrites Sumire's desire to be herself with his desire for her to be Kasumi if you accept his offer. A part of him does care about her and the rest, but he has a distorted heart. His distorted heart causes him to do things that are unethical at best, and straight up evil at worst.
When he first got his powers, he used them on Sumire to delude herself into thinking she was Kasumi. He thought that was what would elminate her suffering, but cracks were already showing. Compare that to the time she spent with Joker and the rest of the Phantom Thieves.
In less than a month of being brought back to her senses, she's grown immensely. Her bond with joker let her grieve and move past her trauma, while Maruki's method tried to swipe it under the rug. Despite being proven how much stronger she was, he still chooses to undo all of that so he can make her Kasumi again.
And again, at this point he would have had the ability to bring back the dead so the fact he chose that over bringing Kasumi back is a major lapse in judgment. This is because he believed that Sumire would not only be happier as Kasumi, but happier if the real Kasumi weren't around. Which is a really messed up view to have.
As for the others talking to him. This is brought up in the game. They admit that they technically asked for that world, but again, they made it clear to him that they didn't want his reality anymore and he fought them until the very end to force it on them.
BTW, the issues I talked about were mostly from when he had more control. Maruki was screwed over by Shido, so it's far more likely that he chose to keep him as a criminal because of that. The Kasumi thing he has no excuse for because at that point he has full control over the real world and metaverse.
There's more issues with how he handled Sumire as well. On January 2nd, he re-traumatizes Sumire by showing her the death of her sister in basically 4k.This is absolutely not the right way to inform somebody of the truth. This was him manipulating her. By re-traumatizing her, he hoped she would accept his offer to essentially brainwash her again so she could forget.
As I said before, I don't believe Maruki is evil. But because his heart was distorted he does some evil things like the whole re-traumatizing Sumire, overwriting people's free will, trapping Joker in an eternal slumber. Even in real life, good people can do bad things. They can also have some distorted views off things.And yes Maruki is not a good counselor or therapist. What you said about them controlling your life is not based in any reality. His persona Azathoth is often called "the Blind Idiot God" in the Cthulu mythos. Which is quite fitting for a man so deluded actually.
For one, a psychiatrist is different from a therapist. The former you go to if you need to potentially be prescribed some sort of medication for mental or emotional disorders. The latter is somebody you go to in order to help you work out your issues by talking them out and learning behavioral techniques to deal with them.
I've never heard of any therapists controlling their patients. You go see a therapist, you can choose to go back to them again if you want, or to not go back if you want. They aren't going to force you to go back.
The reason Maruki is often considered a bad therapist is because he makes many mistakes that counselors learn not to make very early on in education. A lot of it can be written off as the writer not knowing enough about the field. But the Sumire session shows he absolutely isn't cut out for the profession as he clearly oversteps the boundary of what a counselor is supposed to do for a client. If you don't understand what I mean, I recommend checking out ThoughtBubble's video on this. He has a a compilation of all of the videos where he goes over his thoughts on each session.
As for the Valentines scene I mentioned. You keep saying it's not canon, which proves you are missing the point. To help maybe illustrate the point. You know fire is hot. And if you stuck your hand in it, it would hurt. Now canonically you didn't stick your hand in the fire, but the point is that fire is hot. In relation to P5R, Maruki's power involves removing free will and altering the cognition of people so they will be "happy" with his choice. You see that in action throughout the third semester.
The point of bringing up the valentines scene was not to say "hey this particular event happened" but to say "if this event happened, this is how it happened". Even if the event isn't in the game, the mechanism that would allow it IS and is shown throughout the third semester and flat out told to the characters and player.
And if Maruki is the one that decides what makes somebody happy, then happiness itself has no meaning. The people end up as essentially automatons and therefore anything he does to them becomes "equal". The characters literally wouldn't be able to not like it.
And therein lies the real problems and also the draw for most people. If you really think about it, giving up free will means he might chose something for you that you currently find terrible. But on the other hand, many people feel that is worth the risk since no matter what, Maruki promises they will be happy. So even if they end up in a situation that might have felt degrading before, Maruki would make them be happy about it and that is enough for those people.
I haven’t seen the whole video yet but I definitely have to say that the added P4G ending, where you help the killer escape, is probably the best ending from a writing stand point. It’s a complete reversal of the game’s message of finding the truth, even worse than the original bad ending. In the regular bad ending you stay completely oblivious to the truth and end the game with the characters believing that they have solved the case and did the right thing. The characters stay blissfully ignorant and while the games does criticize ignorance, the new ending depicts something far worse. The new ending essentially says that the only thing worse than avoiding the truth is knowing the truth and purposefully ignoring/obscuring it. In most bad endings, the protagonist succumbs to the evil in the game but in this ending the protagonist, not only succumbs to the evil, but actively assists it. It perfectly encapsulates the mindset that the game criticizes.
I think P1 sebec bad end is best one. Maki dies from ligma (nobody cares), but world moves on like nothing ever happened. Also you get to fight cool teddy bear with "Child Abuse" soundtrack playing. Also, about P4, I think ending, where you kill Namatame is worse. It's basically the same as Accomplice ending, except Nanako dies as well.
That Junpei art piece continues to haunt me
The #1 Ending is Maruki’s EASILY.
One bad ending that is quite similar to the accomplice is deciding to kill you know who in Persona 4 and never finding the real culprit.
There's also a small mention of what happens to all the characters you fail to save in Persona 4 as all your party members get killed when you fail to meet the deadline. Something similar exists in Persona 5 when you don't complete the palaces, but I want to bring special mention to what happens when you fail to stop Kaneshiro or save Futaba, with the former implying Makoto was blackmailed into "working" for Kaneshiro to then be found drugged, and the later with Futaba never getting better and Medjed running amock.
You forgot about the Ligma ending where everyone dies to an illness
What’s an illness?
@@k1ngsp0on steve jobs
What's an ending?
@@DekuNutLol
@@rameranddougie7774skibidi
I like to think in the maruki ending the persona 3 protagonist is alive just because of Aigis
I feel like Maruki would just make everyone forget him, but he could be alive in the Yaldabaoth ending, because with no desires, there’s no desire for death, meaning no Erebus, and no need for the Great Seal
The low-key nature of Persona 3's bad ending just feels creepy and if your following the plot, it seems absolutely terrifying. Still my fav.
if you were curious with 1 and 2, with 2 there isn't a bad ending for either of the dulogy instead just certain choices that lead to a slightly bad outcome. 1 has 2 bad endings for each route and the one for sebecc is probably the least bad cause it seems humanity more or less just moved on with life like nothing happend
Окей, это «я люблю тебя до сьлёз» было пиздец неожиданно
Хаха я думал никто заметит
Aww thanks
I feel like pictures is too big of a spoiler for all of the games man, just use the mc's instead
Nah any p5 player that haven’t got up to third semester yet wouldn’t recognise Maruki
@@FounderplotThey already seen him so Im pretty sure they can recognize him easily
@@cranburrey for the p5 players that haven’t got up to that part yet, they would’ve never seen that sprite before, so it’s not recognisable at all
I still think p5r “bad” is a good ending. I would make that deal with him.