My Vision Wasn't Good Enough to Be a Fighter Pilot
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- When I was 16, I was determined to become a fighter pilot. But, after a visit to the optometrist, my dreams were crushed. Do you need perfect vision to become a fighter pilot?
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#MakeThemTellYouNo
This video is a prime example of how Mover uses this platform for good and is an incredible ambassador for Air Force and Navy aviation!
yep
I ran into the 'perfect vision' problem when I applied to be a warrant officer Apache pilot. Although I aced my tests my vision didn't meet the requirements. So, I canceled pursuing the warrant officer path, stayed enlisted and went on to special operations and had a blast. Turns out that a few years after I applied the Army changed the standards for vision to be a pilot, but at that point I was older and just didn't want to go through the hassle again. Pursuing my pilots license now after retirement. Great video as always.
I failed my vision test to become a warrant officer. It was literally the last thing to do that day at MEPS. I was so tired my eyes kept watering and I was not prepared for the machine they used. I should of pursued it more but that time has long gone. I always wonder what my life could of been like if I passed that test.
Yep used to be perfect vision uncorrected. Sometime in 2000 they changed it to 20/20 corrected. Around 2002 they started taking waivers for the surgeries. The whole “perfect vision” requirement is no longer an issue today.
Yep, I had the same exact thing when I took the flight physical at Travis AFB during Berkeley AFROTC in 1980. They said 20/30 vision with astigmatism was disqualifying for flying, no waivers permitted at that time. 1990s they opened up vision requirements, but was too old for flight training. Always regretted not being able to fly jets... Love flying!
I originally planned (faintly hoped, let me be honest) to enlist and then commission at some point afterwards with one of the pathways to officership with a goal of being... Some sorta pilot. Anything, helos, jets, heck woulda even done cargo haulers. Failed the depth perception block of the vision test at MEPS because in the first few images I couldn't make out the difference, finally I realized what I was supposed to be looking at and saw it in the latter half of the test and was passing but they had already marked me as a fail because I had failed a few. To be fair to them, for all they knew I was just guessing.
I know it's just as important, but funnily enough I'm 20/10 left / 20/15 right, so it's not like my eyes suck or anything
There are many other reasons/personal failings I ended up not commissioning, let alone flying, so I won't blame that as like the one dream-killing moment, but just find it funny how that eye exam is so universally screwy
As a fighter pilot myself, I can attest that the medical boards really do try to help you if they can. For the sitting height test at my board, the sweet voiced examiner lady stuck the measuring stick to my head and said “sit up straight, honey’ to which I replied “I am!”. Then she looked at me-now dead serious, all sweetness in her voice vanished-and said in a voice 9 levels deeper “Sit. Taller.”
I’ve never squeezed my buttcheeks so hard in my life.
After the most stressful pause of my life as she scrutinized the measuring tool… her motherly shrill returned as she smiled and said “okay you’re good to go!’…
That lady saved my career. Always love your message, mover. Keep it up! -Flip
I always wanted to be an Air Force pilot since I was a young kid. Watching your videos throughout the many years kept my hope alive- even with the vision I had. My vision was originally disqualifying for the Air Force, and even after I got PRK, one eye was still barely 20/20- even with glasses. Overall, I NEVER let them tell me no - and there were many times I was told no. After many hard fought battles I passed all the medical checks. I'm beyond excited to say I'll be heading to IFT in Colorado on Wednesday and officially starting UPT in July. Your message is one i'll never forget.
Hey I hope your doing well, I’m planning to go to UPT. Good luck!
@@xvlonenasty6482 Hey thanks for the reply. I have my first flight in the T-6 in about 2 weeks. Super excited! Best of luck!
@@adastra3492hey I know I'm super late but I was wondering what you're onto flying now? I hope you passed UPT.
@@liez115 Hey! Yea I just finished pilot training couple weeks ago! I’m moving on to fly the AC-130J Ghostrider!
Hey man. I just turned 26 and want to be a pilot in the air force. My biggest hurdle right now is my vision. I wear one contact in my left eye and have 20/30 vision with that contact in. I am trying to see a specialist to see if it is in fact correctable to know if I can fly for the Air Force in the next couple of years. I also just started getting hours for my private license for some flying experience. Any recommendations or suggestions that you could give an older guy like myself? @adastra3492
Made MEPS definitely tell me no. They sent me back 3 times, sent me to eye specialists, and found out I had Keratoconus and would need a cornea transplant. Wouldn't have known otherwise. Fortunately, I can still get a first-class medical for the FAA and can fly still, just not in the military.
Fellow kerataconus sufferer here also. Don’t see many people often that also have it.
@@damonfleming3952 Did you get the transplant or are you correctable without it?
@@Ananamitron have to have a transplant in my left eye. Getting a scleral lense fitted now and crosslinking in my right.
@@damonfleming3952 I had my transplant in my left eye as well. My doctor has talked about crosslinking in my right, but thus far it's been stable and correctable to 20/20.
I don't know about the military today, so make sure you ask if that's your goal but I do know that if your vision is correctable to 20/20 you can get a first-class medical for the FAA. Just be aware that you'll likely get the same restriction as me "Not valid for any class after one year". This simply means no matter what class you get, you'll have to renew your medical every year. You'll likely have to go to an eye doctor every year and get a few tests/forms filled out from them.
“No, next question”. Classic Mover 😎
Never take advice from people that don’t know what they’re talking about (which is basically everyone regarding pilot stuff that aren’t a pilot themselves). Hence the make them tell you no 😎.
Air Force ROTC cadet here. I’ve been watching your videos for a long time, just got done with IFC at Wright-Patt. I’ve had 20-15 vision my entire life, I’ve got a PPL, never had any vision issues and wasn’t worried about passing. According to the docs I’m apparently color deficient. No waivers available, but there’s an ETP route which could take years. Never thought this would happen to me, but here I am. The fights not over, I’m gonna make them tell me no as many times as I can.
Thank you for repeatedly posting your "Make them tell you 'No'" advice. Undoubtedly, it will help some people realize their dreams of flying. When I was a young boy I dreamed of being a fighter pilot. Unfortunately, because of my terrible vision, which was so bad that I couldn't tell whether my optometrist's eyes were open or closed from the normal examination distance, I knew I would never fly either fighters or anything else in the USAF. I went to high school from 1958 until 1962, and the eye rules were much stricter then than now. I've spent my life being very unhappy about not being able to fly in the U. S. military. Thank you again for working to help anyone who might listen to your advice.
I was looking to join the RAF ( or RN ) all through school in the 80s... screwed up a knee twice to the point of major surgery which was looking iffy but I thought I could work around that, only to find "history of migraines? sorry, we don't want you for anything". My vision was absolutely amazing ( after a career staring at screens it's desperately trying not to be! ), but eh, the rest of you has to be pretty good too. The cold war ending probably didn't help either.
Probably for the best I never made it, diagnosed with absurdly bad ADHD a decade ago :)
Man this it too funny, I had my in-depth flight physical at Wright-Patt after getting my pilot slot during college. While I was there I failed the depth perception test TWICE and I was sweating bullets. The optometrist told me he was going to make me a custom pair of glasses and if I failed a 3rd time that was it, pilot slot likely gone. I was sitting in the waiting room and someone told me the secret about it never being the first and the last and wouldn't you know it I passed the last time. Almost 5 years to the date and now I'm flying C-17s. Just the thought of that test makes me sweat haha.
Good stuff, I always had 20/15 vision but have been plagued by health issues, changing meds all the time, and was never healthy enough for the military, even though I wanted to be a fighter pilot so badly. It’s amazing how a person can otherwise be completely okay in some ways but be heavily unwell in others.
Not every story is a victory, but the message that folks need to know is to never stop trying, keep getting help, and you’ll go farther than you might believe is possible.
For me, every day is a struggle-winning isn’t a win-it’s more akin to “don’t be defeated” and “do what you can even if you’re falling apart”. I don’t know how I even made it through college and still hold a job, but I know that until I hit a insurmountable brick wall-I will never stop trying to do better than yesterday.
I just got the offer to fly jets in the German air force with specially fitted glasses, even though the doctor during the medical assessment said, that glasses in a fighter were a no go because they wouldn't fit beneath the helmet. It's crazy how much misinformation there is even inside the military and especially in recruitment.
Got two medical exemptions, one for the glasses and one for a neurological thing.
Make them tell you no!
That's great. In Belgium however, nothing is allowed. Even being nearsighted, easily corrected with Lasik surgery, is a no go. In the US you can become a top ace, even with Lasik. Here, you need 10/10 vision, without any correction. Wonder how many potential good fighterpilots they denied flying...
@@Tioisdik they are planning to be less strict, within the next years, because they are scared of not finding enough pilots in the future. But for now, yes, 10/10 vision is required.
I’m looking into going in the Philippine Military Academy hopefully to fly fighter jets but any aircraft will do. Any advice on the basics of being a pilot or just military school in general?
@@Tioisdik I even wrote a lettre tot the then minister Coeme with the suggestion that for a career in the 9th wing training, perfect eyesight wasn't needed, but the answer was no.
@@stefaan715 ridiculous. Many other countries have great military pilots who had eye surgery. Nothing wrong with that.
I had this same experience. Family and Eye Dr's said no way. I was in the Civil Air Patrol as a cadet as a kid all thru middle and high school and only wanted to fly. All those dreams of flying went out the window. My 2nd choice was a Marine Scout Sniper and that was a no go as well. I said screw college and just went in the Marines because I just wanted out of my house and in the Marines. If only I had good information like yours when I was younger. Hopefully some young men and women get this and it gives them more hope to move on.
My story with vision reqs. I wore glasses before kindergarten. I was always intensely interested with and loved space stuff and airplanes. (born in 1958 so space race was on!) I knew with my bad eyesight I'd never fly military but got my flying fix by joining CAP as a cadet and later a senior member. But I always dreamed of actually flying an aircraft by myself. In my 30s I decided I'd make that a reality and started taking lessons. I was fortunate and my main instructor was an active duty F/A-18C pilot on TDY in Detroit. We REALLY hit it off and had a great time together. Anyway as solo approached I had to get the Class C medical. I went to a local FAA ME. Everything was going well until he told me to read the eye chart WITHOUT my glasses on. It was a total blur and I couldn't see anything. He said I had to see at least one letter to pass. I was devastated and thinking this was the end and I'd never solo. He saw my huge disappointment and asked if I could see the big letter that comes after D. I was confused and said what? He repeated "Can you see the big letter that comes after D"? I said, you mean E? He said "Good enough!" When I put my glasses back on I saw the top letter on the chart was a big E. So with his help and coaching I passed the medical and soloed a few weeks later. Instead of telling me no he said yes! I'll always be grateful to him.
Dope person! I should take notes from this!
I’m a bit colorblind on the green side. I got “no” two times. I kept pressing on until I got them to make me some light tests and passed with no issues. See, I have no problems with the colors themselves but this little book with dots they test you with just doesn’t tell them how bad it is. Been flying airliners for 8 years now.
My cousin's daughter went to West Point. 4 days before her graduation, she had a seizure. She was left in limbo for a year before a doctor cleared her to finally receive her commission. She toughed it out and now is a Captain commanding a Patriot missile battery. Probably didn't hurt that she has a 3-star general for an uncle to keep her motivated.
A girl manning a Patriot battery?
Why does that sound so familiar...
@@LongTran-em6hc What exactly is that supposed to mean?
@@wischef64 there was a US army ad about a girl with two moms that operates a patriot battery
@@wischef64 as nobody said
And you may, or may not, want to take a look at it.
@@LongTran-em6hc Already did, interesting story. I'm only curious why she didn't finish college first, then she'd be in charge of the battery like my cousin. Might be looking to use the GI Bill for that, though.
As a child of Top Gun in the 80's, I too of course wanted to be Maverick. At 15 I suddenly needed glasses. I already had flight time in a Cessna and tested high, but the recruiter said, 'sorry son, your options are maybe WSO if you're lucky, or hey, how about helis in the army?'. I said 'Goose died man.' That was it. I wish I knew the MTTYN philosophy. My parents were more of the 'it's a foregone conclusion, don't bother'. Oh well. Great message.
Wow, I had such a similar optometrist experience when I was 16 in 1993, only as a military brat, it was an Air Force doc. I think it worked out ok for me - I’m about to retire as an Army O6, Master Aviator, rated in the AH-64 and UH-60, and instructor pilot in C-12s and UC-35s. Awesome message…keep up the great work!
That’s a great story not just for yourself but for life in general. Never stops trying or striving for a goal.
Mover,
I am in a similar spot right now. I got picked up for OTS recently and got an RPA slot. When I got my retinal scans done for my IFC1, they found abnormal corneal topography in my right eye. They wanted to send me off base (I am still waiting to go to MFS) to get a second opinion before they route my IFC and waiver. No one in my flight med team is worried as I have 20/20 and perfect depth perception. I’ve also been on flying status my entire enlisted career with almost 1000hrs of flight time. Also having a PPL does help my case. Even though I got selected for RPAs, I still may apply for manned later on after I am flying the line again. I’ve worked on becoming an Officer my entire 6 year enlisted career so it still is stressful going through this process, but your videos have helped me over the years and it’s amazing how you went through even more hurdles than me and you made it. Make them tell you no!
TIDE
Just got through Wright Patt and leaving for OTS very soon. I am going to make a video on my channel on going from enlisted to officer and what helped me be competitive and the video will be a shoutout to you, Mover. Make them tell you no!
This is a lesson in life right here!
Wish I had heard this when I was 17 years old ✈️
Great message Mover, this is such a great MO for how to approach everything in life. Thanks for all your great work and sharing. God Bless.
Thanks, Eric!
Thank you for this story. This is exactly what happened to me in my senior year of high school in 1975. Since a young age, I had dreamed of being a fighter pilot. One day a recruiter came to my school looking for boys who were interested in joining the military. I told him I wanted to fly jets, specifically the F-111. He saw I wore glasses and after discussing my vision he informed me I would never qualify and laughingly commented about my vision stating, "You couldn't even find the ground." My vision was 20/15 corrected, but without glasses, it was 20/800. I check around to see if there was a way to correct my vision, but Lasik wasn't an option back then. I attempted to join other military services and then the police department but was turned down flat every time. Looking back I believe my eyesight would not have been correctable enough to qualify, but I wish I had heard about your, "Make them tell you no", philosophy, because I would have fought a lot harder.
I went on to have a career as the owner of an award-winning printing company for 38 years. I was advised that I needed signed contracts with all my customers, but I decided to run the company my way. The only contract I ever had with anyone was my handshake and I never went unpaid for any of my work. Throughout my life when I was told something could not be done, I took it as a challenge and usually found ways to accomplish the task, thus I believe we have a similar philosophy.
I have enjoyed your channel for several years and wish you the best in life. I also never miss an opportunity to thank those who serve our country so to you I say, "Thank you for your service, your sacrifice, and most of all, OUR FREEDOM! God bless you and God bless our great nation."
Mover you are one of the most humble officers and for that I really respect that about you. Your guests are all the same way. Hopefully one day our paths will cross and I would truly like to shake your hand for putting a smile on an old sailor’s face during some hard times.
Will buy you both a drink too! Pepsi for you Mover!
@@perspicator5779 I'd love to meet with him too. I'm considering joining the AF myself, and despite my mental issues I've had in the past, I'm a solid student and in great physical shape, so I'd love to see if I had what it takes to do exactly what I wish for! :)
Great detailed update on your story! As I told you before my son had some hurdles including vision but now is Viper driver about to rank up to Captain and FLUG after 11 months at assignment squadron. HUA!
I feel that the fact there is no longer an uncorrected vision standard proves that this item was previously used as a way to thin the applicant pool when the pilot supply/demand curve favored the military. When I was a young man this is what kept me from pursuing my top gun dreams. I ended up a successful civ. pro pilot but I still chafe that such arbitrary requirements kept me from pursuing my dream. It was a good life lesson though…. Keep up the good work, Mover!
Thanks for posting this! I want to be a pilot but I have bad vision and a high glasses prescription, this video gives me inspiration that my eyesight is not an instant no for my dreams!
There's perfect vision, then there was what I had, which was a combination of myopia and astigmatism so bad that not only was flying out, but I couldn't pass the Navy's eye exam (apparently, they frown on driving your ship into another ship) and LASIK wasn't a thing yet (which finally cured me about 20 years ago). But like you, Mover, I was young when they told me no, and unfortunately I didn't even know that there was such a thing as waivers.
I failed depth perception twice. I also got "PDQ'd" 4 times before even getting to MEPS. Currently in Meridian. Keep trying!
I'm blind in one eye, depth perception's overrated.
Hey PimaPuma congrats and keep it up! Do you have advice on how to pass the depth perception?
Damn, 8-9 year old me would have gotten a lot out of hearing this back in the mid-2000s. Granted, my vision is REALLY bad (20/200 in one eye), so the story wouldn't have ended up the same way for me, but still, this kind of talk is definitely good for people like me to hear, keep it up.
Thank you for repeatedly posting your "Make them tell you 'No'" advice. Undoubtedly, it will help some people realize their dreams of flying. When I was a young boy I dreamed of being a fighter pilot. Unfortunately, because of my terrible vision, which was so bad that I couldn't tell whether my optometrist's eyes were open or closed from the normal examination distance, I knew I would never fly either fighters or anything else in the USAF. I went to high school from 1958 until 1962, and the eye rules were much stricter then than now. I've spent my life being very unhappy about not being able to fly in the U. S. military. Thank you again for working to help anyone who might listen to your advice.
I am a 16 year old who wants to become a fighter pilot in the Hellenic air force but I can't, because I am not able to see at a distance.Your video was amazing and gave me hopes
Unfortunately the limits are way more strict over here
My son is at the AF Academy sitting top one percent for pilot training but failing depth perception. I am sending him this video. Thank You for the information.
Similar problem for me. At age 8, I was diagnosed with a heart murmur, but I took little notice. In my teens, I went to my family Doc to get a 3rd Class FAA physical so I could begin flying lessons. He listened to my heart...and failed me! Crushed. However, I later applied through the Air Guard for the AF Aviation Cadet program. At the physical, I was ready for the rejection, again. The Doc asked me if I had ever had a heart murmur diagnosed. I told him I had. He gave me the name of a cardiologist for tests, and approved my application after getting the results. Success! I'm 84 now and looking back on a long military (fighters) and airline career. I never had any problem with my heart. Also...my vision is still 20-20 uncorrected. Not too bad for an octogenarian.
Not going to lie, I’m kind of in the same boots. Your story’s helping me for that journey I’ll be following soon enough
Thanks for the video. I appleid to become a fighter pilot in Sweden but i failed one of the tests. They told me that i could apply agian in 2,5 years and although i already had decided that i will do that it was nice to hear that i'm not the only one who has tried multiple times, and that it isnt over just because i faild the first time.
If only there was a way to get around the Colorblindness issue. That's one thing that kept me from doing most of my dream jobs as a kid.
Love seeing fighter jets fly above my head the sound they make never gets old 😁😄😃
I wish I was back in middle school now and had access to the information you're sharing. Mover, you are changing the lives of many young future aviators. Keep up the great work! Thanks for letting me vicariously live the fighter pilot life through you.
5:33 - I've watched the channel long enough to know the story, but I'm just imagining newbies coming to the channel and hearing the casual mention of "...when I got struck by lightning." That sound is many jaws hitting floors and desks.
Literally me right now. I was so unprepared for that one
*great video, I'm in the process right now so thanks dude!*
Good luck!
@@CWLemoine *thank you sir! I've passed all my vision test including my civilian depth perception test for my first class, but I failed the one at MEPS a while ago. I know I'll retake it, any tips or pointers to overcome this?* 🙏🏻
It's never the outer-most circles. Focus on the ones in between. Tilting your head sometimes helps also.
@@CWLemoine *thanks a bunch MOVER! I'll practice with these strats and work with some of the flyers in my unit. Looking forward to your future videos, cheers.* 😀🤙🏻
You are a true inspiration, Mover. Thank you!
This whole time I've been a viewer, I thought you were older than me..... 🤦♂️
I had dreams of being a fighter pilot too but I ended up joining the Infantry in the Army. Dropped out of college when the planes hit the towers thr next day and was at MEPS a month later.
I found my fight a year later.....
Shit man
Mover, great video! I was in the Army and worked in an Apache Battalion, I was so mesmerized by these machines that I decided to start my warrant flight packet until I got bad news from my optometrist. I basically got told the same line, "You will never be a pilot. I don't even know how you're in the Army and made it past MEPS." My optometrist diagnosed me with Keratoconus, which the Army or military in general has a pretty substantial policy regarding this disease. I ended up getting the corrective surgery for this disease, which it wasn't guaranteed. They said it could either slow the degenerative process down or make it worse depending on how my eyes reacted to the surgery. I got the surgery a couple months before I officially transitioned out of the Army, I just sometimes wish I would've exhausted all my resources to get a definite no like you mentioned. -Blue skies!
I wanted to join the RAAF (aussie air force) but was medically turned down but i dont think i have a workaround for my problems, I have steel wires in my head from surgeries when i was a kid. Interestingly though an optometrist told me i'd never be able to fly a plane even though I have done a couple of introductory lessons with an instructor who offered praise for my inbuilt abilities. Only money is holding me back from becoming a private pilot
Wow the meaning of "never let them tell you no" has reached another level.
I could barely see the E on the chart, but thanks to PRK and a waiver I went to OTS in 2007 then KEND shortly after. But almost DQ'd at Brooks for the depth perception test thanks to the tech putting the lenses in backwards on those dumb glasses we had to wear.
Enid, America!
i attented one airforce camp in my life i really enjoyed it
A common tale unfortunately. Let people talk me out of it early on. Years later met an actual aviator who got me where I wanted to be. LASIK is a thing. Oldest guy (39) to finish Army Flight School (through the Guard) and oldest guy (49) to transition to GUNSHIPS. Plus flying commercially as my day job. Make them tell you no. Good stuff, thanks again.
Maybe a common tale in America..I guess the right answer is: Depends where you live! I know for a fact that in Belgium 10/10 vision is mandatory, would surprise me if we are the only country following this (perhaps outdated) rule?
When I was in, the USAF had a directive against anyone being a pilot who had lasik. They were worried about defects in vision due to scarring, etc. as well as the altered cornea. That was 40 years ago though, I imagine things may have changed.
Sadly this wasn't the case in the Canadian Air Force when I applied. Mind you that was 20+ years ago. I had even tried to come up with a helmet that corrected for vision issues back then butI guess the tech just wasn't there yet. Glad to see the rules have changed for the better, (in the U.S. at least,) and that people like you are out there combatting the myths. I'm wondering if there's anyone up here doing that for all the young people in Canada? Great video as always Mover!
From a quick look around, sounds like it's pretty similar to the USAF standards these days?
Awesome video, and I remember the first time I looked at a depth perception chart and that was a mind fuck with how they do it and you’ve never done it before. Eventually Rucker denied my waver for something other than vision, which sucks, but instead of retiring in 2030 I’ll retire next year instead.
I hated that stupid depth perception test. I went to MEPS when I was getting my aviation contract with the Marines. I ended up failing it. The Marine NCOIC was like WTF this is our X failure this week. Turns out the apparatus was faulty. I ended up getting my PLC-Air contract, yay!
I truly enjoy your channel. You have and continue to lead a exciting life. You was active fighter pilot both in the Airforce and Navy. You continue to fly and training including Rotorwing. Author of successful Books.
What a life you continue to lead.
I will continue to watch your channel
Thank you for making this video this just give me little bit hope that one day I can become US Naval Aviator or US Air Force Pilot
I'm no pilot, just a civilian with an interest in aviation and fighter jets, but "Make Them Tell You No" is such a great and inspirational mindset for just about any career or accomplishment you want to achieve. Thanks for this, Mover.
Thanks for sharing sir, this is definitely great advice that more need to hear. I recently had a very similar experience as a cadet at the Air Force Academy.
3 months ago when I did my graduation eye exam, I was told by the optometrist that I was DQ'ed for depth caused by my brain not being able to properly fuse images from both eyes. I was also told that vision therapy wasn't an option, and would lead to a DQ as well. Additionally, due to another condition, I was told it was possible that I would not be able to go rated at all.
A month ago I had my ACS waiver review and was able to pass all the depth tests, leading to waivers for both conditions. This outcome was highly unlikely and took a number of leaps of faith, including being fully transparent and honest with cadet optometry and the ACS folks. Turns out, "eye exercises" done on your own are perfectly acceptable as long as they are not part of an active therapy program supervised by a doctor/therapist. Make them tell you no!
I’m currently in the medical waiver process after receiving an appointment to the Naval Academy for “asthma” how would you recommend proving my case that I’m still qualified medically to serve, I ran cross country and I passed the CFA pretty easily for context.
Back in the day, by which I mean when I was in ROTC (around 1967-1971) you DID need 20/20 vision (not perfect vision, to be sure, since there are better levels than 20/20) to be an AF pilot at all, let alone a fighter pilot. Or, more accurately, you needed 20/20 to qualify for UPT. The same was true at just about every airline at the time. Mind you, once you were in (either at the airline or the AF) you could wear glasses as long as you could pass the physical with the glasses. All of that has changed now. By the time Mover came along, things were much better for applicants, and rightly so. But perhaps we of the olden times also had a bit of a benefit from the fact that some of these tests Mover had to take had not been invented back then!!
Im glad you didnt quit trying.
Thank you for this inspirational content! I'm also wanting to become a fighter pilot but I was always thinking I didn't have good enough vision or wasn't smart enough or anything. People around me tell me "you can always be a crewchief or air traffic controller" I just said sure I guess and kind of lost hope for ever becoming a fighter pilot. Recently I found your channel and I love it! Especially this video motivates me to try out everything I can to become a fighter pilot. Every. Single. Option. Like Sam Eckholm once said "If there's a will there's a waiver!"
I'm gonna push forward and give it my all #MakeThemTellYouNo
Dang, same happened to me, my optometrist said it was far to unlikely for me to be a pilot so I stopped trying to pursue a career in the Air Force because I couldn’t fly. Now I’m signed with the marine corps as an enlistee so that’s cool
Wish I had known this when I was younger. I got glasses at 6years old and had every responsible adult I knew squeeze the life out of my dreams.
I had been in the Air Force Reserves at Bergstrom AFB, TX, while attending UT Austin. I knew at the time (1989) pilot or Naval Aviator was out of the question, because they required 20/20 UNCORRECTED vision for initial training. I had very high AFOQT and OAR/ASTB test scores, with a 99 Pilot and 98 Navigator score on the AFOQT. Despite those scores, my college grades weren't outstanding, so neither the Air Force of Navy were offering me flying slots (Nav/WSO or NFO). The work around was getting a navigator slot at a C130 Reserve unit in Riverside, CA. I flew Space A from San Antonio to San Bernadino, and rented a car on base, had my interview, and they gave me a slot. Back at Bergstrom, I passed the flight physical, except for Total Refractive Error. I had always had a severe astigmatism, but this requirement had never been conveyed to me previously. Like you say, it was related to the recent use of Night Vision Goggles, and their limited ranges of adjustment.
I tried to get a waiver, getting a letter from my US Senator Lloyd Bentsen, and letters from several officers in my unit. I flew Space A from San Antonio to Andrews AFB, and the next day tried to get a waiver from the correct offices at The Pentagon. I was at least 2 diopters out of standard, so it may have been too much to try for. I failed to get the waiver, but at least I knew I had made the effort. In 1989 the only corrective eye surgery for myopia and astigmatism was PRK. Lasik was still in the experimental stages, and the Air Force rightly didn't want anyone with PRK. There was also no internet available to the public, so information about actual flying physical standards was much harder to research. By the time Lasik and Wavefront surgery became acceptable for military aviation, I was too old to apply for pilot training.
My experience with the military was that there were often back doors and workarounds, but occasionally the obstacle can be too much to overcome. If I had gone through AF Navigator training, it was not impossible to get a WSO slot at some future date, despite being initially trained for C130s. Likewise, switching services for a Navy NFO/RIO position, was also not unthinkable. If you get the military to invest the money training you, they are often willing to pay for additional training not to lose their sunk costs. I knew pilots that spent their early careers flying heavies, to later get fighter slots when either their units switched aircraft, or they switched units.
It's good the Armed Forces changed the vision requirements and began allowing those without "perfect" vision to fly fighters. Sucks that it took so long. Back when I went through the academy process in '92, none of these allowances or waivers existed. There were supposedly age waivers as well, but found out the recruiters were spewing empty promises. I missed the boat by a generation, but times change and seems they've wised up. Good on you for sticking with it and persevering.
I had kind of similar experience. In my country I failed the Ishihara-Test because of red green deficiency. My medical only allowed for non commercial flights. Later I learned that in case of failing the Ishihara, in the US one could get a medical exemption if passing a practical test, called lantern test (kind of real life test for red green recognition). Went for it, passed, got a medical exemption et voila
Back in 1990 I was told by a Navy recruiter that I'd never be a pilot because had to wear glasses. Not sure if the standards were the same as they are today but I still should have given it a shot.
I wanna be a fighter pilot in the French Navy , cheers ! 🇲🇫
Great story of perseverance. One thing I've always known is that Doctors are full of sh!@. I've had so many misdiagnosis because of lazy doctors (which is stunning since they spend 10 years becoming a "competent" doctor)?
And to me when a friggin doctor, especially an optometrist tells you the word "never" I believe they are violating the "Do no harm" oath to their patients. So hats off to you young man and thank you for your service and perseverance.
I had 20/19 vision in the late '80s, but I broke a bone playing varsity football in HS. Even though I scored in the top 97% on my ASVAB, I was automatically disqualified for any pilot slot, in any branch, because of my bone injury. The main reason back then was because "Top Gun" came out a few years earlier so everybody wanted to be a pilot. At one point in the early '90s, from what I was told, there were: 15 Air Force Pilots for every 1 jet, 12 Naval Aviators for every jet and 3 Marine Pilots for every jet. So I ended up being an 'Easy Rider' (enlisted reserve) during my college getting a degree.
I was either born 15 years too early or 15 years too late. Apparently in this current time there are F16s lying dormant in hangars waiting for qualified pilots to fly them. I'm guessing that's why standards are going down with vision tests?
I ended up going civilian FAR141 flight school after graduating college to become a FAR121 airline pilot.
wow I always wanted to be a fighter pilot and never tried because of my vision. Same thing as Mover Astigmatism and glasses. I wish I had this kind of information when I was kid. My life could have turned out much differently.
Back in the early 80s in my nrotc unit i was told waivers are only given out after ur an aviator and ur eyes go bad. And then only if its a slight change. Having 20/400 vision i was told sorry ur never getting in a cockpit even as an nfo. Didnt have lasek then and racial k surgery was not approved. I am very glad it has changed for the kids today who are nearsighted!
Mover, you kinda changed my life. I can't even remember the day I decided I wanted to fly fighters, maybe 3 or 4 years old. As I got older I got discouraged because of the issues you brought up, ended up failing a FC1 about 5 years ago. I'm happy to say I'll be slinging packages out this year. I owe you so much for these videos. Thanks for all you do!
I had too much astigmatism to fly for the Army, even after they gave me PRK. -3.25 diopter. A true soul crusher. My recommending CW5 was confident I'd get selected too.
The depth-perception test got me, too, when I was in the USMC. It's odd that I couldn't pass it because my depth perception is pretty good, as demonstrated when landing an aircraft, or driving a car close to the guard rail of a narrow bridge.
So I can get LASIK and might be able to be a fighter pilot? I haven’t looked into it, I where glasses and assumed I could never be one.
My vision was good enough for a naval AVROC program 20-15 full day physical at Los Alimitos NAS but a bad back did me in. This was 1970
As a fellow astigmatism guy, I say great information. One word of caution on corrective surgery (you mentioned Lasik). I had a flight student who would always get messed up returning to our home field and flare at the wrong time (if at all) unless I gave her a quick cue. After much troubleshooting, we determined her Lasik procedure to rid her of glasses, corrected one eye to near and one to far which made a mess of her depth perception. Once we figured that out and she got glasses to correct for her corrective surgery, she was off to the races and did just fine, but it took a bit of perseverance to get to that point.
LOL! Almost identical experience here. I failed the depth perception at MEPS too and they told me I would never fly in the Air Force. I had PRK as a civilian and had to spend a day at Brooks as well. Been flying in the AF for 15 years. Don't take no for an answer!
My war story. Wanted to be an Army WO pilot (back then WO's had to have 20/20 however RLO's could have glasses). Went to MEPS and failed the color vision test. BIG stamp on my medical records "Color Deficient, Fail". Luckily my recruiter asked for a test retake and after a little help I got 10/14 plates and passed. Got to Ft. Wolters and during a flight physical the medic said " How in the hell did you get this far you failed the color test". Being a draftee he helped me out. After I got my wings I had my first flight physical I told myself I'm not stressing out over this anymore. During the color vision test I probably only got 7/14 correct, FAIL. The medic said not problem we have a alternate test called the Farnsworth Lantern (similar to a traffic stop light). EASY. Thanks all you draftees that helped me out.
Never accept "no", for sure.
I went through around the time you did. I was ROTC, then active duty, so slightly different path. I never wanted fighters. I'm a heavy guy, always was. My vision was clearly outside the standards back then, so I took a Nav slot, and got Herks, which was perfect for me at the time. Not taking "no" for an answer also sometimes means taking a slightly different path, and still getting a great opportunity.
Very nice listen. Thank you.
Last year, when I was 16, I was stuck in a similar situation. Now that I know the facts it has cut my uncertainty significantly. Thank you for your service and thank you for your story.
Love your "ignore the no" attitude however for me it is 50 years too late.
1964 Vietnam war raging and I wanted to fly in the navy and not a grunt. The naval academy at that time was hard to get an appointment (all connected families wanted their sons in there) so I tried for the NROTC and passed all the IQ, background, health and was on my way to get a 4 year ride to one of a bunch of great universities. Went to a Navy recruiting facility in New York City and they said my eyesight was not sufficient and lost the scholarship. A bummer. Could have used your thinking of don't let them say no. Only good was that I attended college anyway, got hooked on early computing and voila a fifty year career followed.
In Saburo Sakai's autobiography _Samurai_ he mentions the acute eyesight of Japanese naval aviators. If memory serves, they would find a 3rd magnitude star during the day, snap their head in another direction, and see how long it took to re-acquire the star. Or something along those lines; it's been a while. In any case excellent eyesight was a requirement in becoming a IJN aviator.
On the other hand, while their training produced very good pilots, their numbers were few per year. One might see the difference as between joining the Marines, and joining the Navy SEALS. The latter are some of the best in the business, but the former are still pretty darn good. As we all know, after even six months Japan was experiencing a shortage due to attrition.
The moral of the story is better is the enemy of good enough.
This is absolutely wild ... your story is very similar to mine with growing up wanting to be a fighter pilot and being hit in 98 with sight problems unfortunately I was told by everyone that my flight career was effectively ended so when I graduated in 01 I ended up going towards the army instead.
Great story. I was thinking back around 1970 you did need perfect vision to be a military pilot. Can anyone confirm this?
I wish I had someone like you to listen to in 1970, to encourage me to try and be a pilot. I think I had 20/20 vision then but I didn't know you could keep exploring other avenues to make something happen. I was brought up with "you can't have it -end of story" mindset. I ended up enlisting in the Air Force and worked in electronics. After the AF I got an EE degree and recently finished a career in electrical engineering.
We had a student at Williams that was kicked out for having corrective eye surgery. The surgery was not approved by the AF (circa 1986), and when challenged by the docs, the student lied about having the procedure. He was removed from UPT and possibly kicked out.
I need to remember this when I go through the medical for my glider license. The Japanese civil aviation authority is so risk-averse you need equivalent First Class medical just for gliders, and IBD is stupidly listed as a disqualifier even if controlled with medication.
Nearly this exact situation happened to me. I went the academy route, passed all the steps and was boot shopping in preparation for boot camp before my first year when my medical came back as "commission qualified". Turns out you want it to say "flight qualified". It wasn't visual acuity, that was fine. It was depth perception. My recruiter sent me to a flight surgeon who confirmed my depth perception was really bad with a more in depth set of tests. He had an experimental therapy I could try, but there was no guarantee of fixing the issue so I declined my appointment and went to college. I'm an engineer now in the aerospace industry, and to be honest it's the right place for me, but I very nearly went a different route. In the end, I had a growth spurt in college and am now about 6'5", which would probably have precluded me from flying fighters anyways.
I wonder when the standards changed because I know that I was told no when I went to join the Air Force at 17 but that was 1997.
Dude! Same for me, except Colour vision. 11 yr old me, solo in a dark room with the optomistrist. “What do you want to be when your grow up?” I said
“I am going to be a fighter pilot.” He sat back in his chair laughed and said “you’ll never be a fighter pilot kid, your colour blind.” (still burned in my mind today at 47) I left the room in tears, Dad (Military Fire Fighter) was waiting in the lobby, after seeing me crying from being alone with a the Doc, the 10,000lb index finger landed in the doc’s chest until he found out why on was crying. Once all was figured out the Doc reiterated, “nope, basically never gonna be a pilot of anything,” he didn’t offer any other options to check or validate his call. No one in my fam knew of Practical colour tests of course. Dad asked around base in Halifax and we talked to some flight crew in Greenwood N.S. All said nope. I always wanted to become military and desired to be pointy end of the sword so I kept looking at options, Dad mentioned Navigator or AWACS guy stuff………no thanks, not pointy enough, so I went Infantry in 94. Cold, wet, tired, hungry and no affinity for camping, I loved it all, but my true desire never left. I was happy though riding in choppers a few times or watching 18’s engage stuff on a combined live fire exercise. Definitely the coolest thing ever. In 97 I found out I could challenge the colour requirements with a ‘Lantern Test’. Most stressful test I’ve ever taken. Needed to achieve 20 out of 20 on the light series (white/red/green - multiple patterns). Passed!! So…I can be a pilot?!!! Wow. Decided to do a tour overseas (relaxed tour in Bosnia) as the make or break decision. I remember the day I decided pull pin, sat in the crew lunchroom, grabbed the book ‘From the Ground Up’ out of my ruck and haven’t ever looked back. Got my PVT Lic while on 30day leave when i got home from the tour, finished off Night and Commercial in short order and then released in 2000. Multi/IFR/Instructor were next. Taught for under 2yrs then got my first job as a driver on a PC-12, jets came 4 yrs later and here I am 22+yrs in as a full time pilot driving a large biz jet. Never did the airline thing. I love using more brain bytes in the biz jet world Planning Maint Logistics and everything else you can think of to run an operation. The fighter pilot in me wishes i had known about the lantern test back when i was 11. I could have had a dream come true and made it happen as a fighter guy, ahh nuts. Thank god for DCS, I can fly a biz jet for work and then get ‘on line’ and max pretend fighter fun with with friends. Still looking for a chance to get a ride some day, if not I’ll ask my daughter to take me up if she goes airforce. F-35 though, so prob just a nicer sim is all it would amount too. :P Mover you have a great channel and I love the make them tell you know aspect. It is the best. I have tried to help where i can for people looking at flying too. Recently overheard young guys talking about colour vision stopping them from flying. I had to give em the news about the Lantern and other practical tests they can challenge. Simply can’t imagine anyone else missing that oppotrunity and not exploring every option available. If the information had been around in the late 80’s and my Dad or I had found it, life would have been quite different. You are a voice that keep others moving foreword to chase flying Mover. I know Wombat told ya once or twice last stream and you passed on acknowledging it, but you are helping way more than you realize. Give it another yr or two and you’ll see more thank you notes and then understand why you are ‘Making them Tell You No.’ Good hunting on the fighter seat. 👍🏻
Went through the same process with the eyes, but definitely gave up too easy. Had 20/15 vision, passed everything but the stupid depth perception donut test. 1) they never said I could take it again, treated it like a go/no go, and 2) didn’t have anyone tell me how to pass it. 😂 I never understood how staring at a bunch of circles would offer a good understanding of depth perception but apparently it did? Anyway, they talked me into going to submarines, and that’s where I stayed for 20+ years. I don’t regret that decision, but I sure wish I had been a little more stubborn about that depth perception test. Being a pilot was my childhood dream. Being on a submarine seemed like the stuff of nightmares. 😂 Turns out it was pretty awesome.
Ok, makes me feel better about my last eye exam saying I was 20/20 minus 1 ! Of course I'm looking at Army WOCS/WOFT and already need an age waiver so hopefully that "minus 1" isn't used to deny that 😬
What does minus 1 even mean?
@@CWLemoine Thats a good question Sir, I do know I had a bit of trouble reading the very bottom line on the eye chart
I applied for PRK when I was stationed in Quantico. I passed the initial pre screening and they sent me to Joint Base Andrews for the surgery. During the pre-surgery examination, they told me that I have Kertaconis and that they won’t do the surgery. The Navy Doctors told me that I didn’t have that so they were going to sent me to Fort Belvoir for the surgery. I was transferred and then I left the Marines, before I was able to the surgery. The following year, I stopped at an eye clinic, applied for PRK and had the surgery. 20/200 -> 20/20
Never gave up either. Best $4000 I have ever spent
Interesting coincidence. I have been a private pilot for 12 years with class 2 medical and it just happens that tomorrow morning I will go and try to get my class 1 Medical (EASA) to open the possibility for the CPL. I also have the astigmatism and have been wearing the glasses. So far it has been OK with class 2 medical but lets see if I now try to push towards the class 1. Do the doctors shoot me down in flames or not? Lets see.
Good luck!
Thank you for making this video, sir. I had to go to MEPs about four times before finally being cleared with waivers. Your story gives a lot of people hope to pursue a career that they believe in. "Make them tell you no" is great advice for MEPS
Along those same lines, the point of keep going, was my trek on becoming a Navy pilot. I served from 1993-2013, flew mainly C-2's (fleet and FRS IP) and the T-45C as an IP for my career, over 3000 military hours, over 300 traps left seat C-2A, T-45C and T-2C combined. Another 350 from the right seat of the C-2A. Anyway, I always wanted to fly as a kid, first for the USAF but witnessed a Naval Airshow when I was thirteen and was smitten by carrier aviation. As far as vision, though the 20/20 thing was not an issue. though I think it was changed to 20/30 in 1992 for 1390 (designator for a SNA). Anyway, I was at the civilian eye doctor one day, about age 16, and took an Ishihara color vision test...bombed it. The eye doc said I couldn't become a military pilot as it required normal color vision. I was devastated but decided to search out any and every color vision test I could take, passed some, failed others. I went as far as going to the local optometrist school and taking every test they had lol
What I failed to realize is the Navy had a test called the Farnsworth lantern test and that was the test that counted. The test consisted of a vertical row of two lights, the lights would be red, green or white. There was a combination of 9 and could be dialed to any combo, thus making it very difficult to cheat. I passed it easily as the Farnsworth allows for a person with mild color deficiency to pass. I went on to fly the next 25 years, 20 Navy and 5 civilian, with over 5,000 hours...until I lost my medical for other health reasons. Never had an issue with color, in the cockpit, at the boat, day or night, etc.
I think now days, the military just measures your color cones or something to that effect but Mover's point still stands, keep going. Know what happens if you don't? Nothing.
does anyone know about navy pilot standard for laser eye surgery(PRK or LASIK)? can I get it before applying or after or will I be disqualified either way? the linked article
My 16 year old grandson is wanting to check out being a pilot. I retired from the NDANG HAPPY HOOLIGANS.
Colour deficiency gang. Took a CAD test at heathrow. The optometrist said "Unfortunately it's a fail. A convincing one at that." My red/green perception is bad. Scoring a 20 with the minimum threshold at 12. I'm eligible for a restricted class 2 medical. No commercial flying and not at night. Dreams crushed. I'd like the pursue the "make them tell you no" route but I feel colour deficiency may be more convicting than astigmatism. And I get it to be fair, with runway lights, light guns from ATC, weather radar readouts etc there's a lot of colour going on that you need to be certain of. I'm still going to pursue a PPL as a passion project and hopefully, with modern aircraft using glass cockpits and such, aviation becomes more accessible to colour deficient folks like me and I can have a shot at it. Like you said in another video, once you've caught the aviation bug you can't shake it.
1988, I applied to be a fighter pilot, good schooling and physically fit, however; I suffered from colour blindness (Red+Greens) and I suffered asthma. My recruiter told me as long as the asthma was managed and that flying did not affect it I should be fine. I applied and was knocked back due to the colour blindness and having asthma. If I had one or the other, I stood a far better chance. Today, I still have the documents, and now, I'm just a blue collar worker doing the things I hate.