"shop hands and cleaning ladies scrub toilets so why not apprentices" because cleaning ladies are paid to do that lol. i mean kudos to you that you don't take money from apprentices but still it's unpaid labour
yes i do not pay the apprentices for there labour, and yes i do not get paid for the labour it cost to teach them how to tattoo. we made a trade in labour that will benefit both of us. pretty simple
@@kirkfagantattoo yeah if im paying you to teach me, im not scrubbing your toilet. if there no money involved, ill scrub the toilet no question. im not better than you because i wont pay to scrub your toilet im just not that dumb lol
But the difference is you’re getting an income while teaching that you can survive off. You’re not doing any unpaid labour, because firstly you ARE getting paid from the income of owning a shop, and secondly you’ll be paid even more when your apprentice becomes a tattooer and starts bringing in revenue. I understand tattoo shops probably have very little margins and don’t make a huge amount of profit, but having someone do unpaid cleaning and work for you is bullshit. It shouldn’t exist in any industry.
The apprentice is paying for the knowledge that they can use for a lifetime, but they still are working in the shop. So of course, they're not going to be able to sit on their ass all day. Daily cleaning is necessary in most customer service positions, including the bathrooms.
bro is doing crazy mental gymnastics to rationalize his abusive behavior. "well it happened to me, its just part of the culture, give them some character" how to say you are drunk on power without saying you are drunk on the slightest amount of power lol. 14:10 self report.
@@Nimbus. It makes a decent amount of sense to me. The apprentice is not being compensated with current paychecks because they dont have the skill to be able to work there. They made an agreement to be compensated with knowledge that they can use in the future to make money. So they are contributing on a limited basis until they are ready. A tattoo shop is open to the public and provides a service to its customers. Anything that needs to be done immediately when every other professional is busy should of course be done by the apprentice because they do not have the skill to do what the others can do, so they should be asked to do everything else first. This system has been going on for hundreds of years for a reason. Its not about disrespect or woke bullying.
@@Leadsing1 okay, let me present a situation to you: Someone offers you the opportunity to attend a school free of charge and all they ask of you is to clean the bathrooms every day. Would you do it? I sure as hell would and I bet millions of others would prefer that over paying thousands in tuition. Yes, sometimes people take advantage of others, but you dont have to be there if you dont like it. People endure abuse just to join a Fraternity that they have to pay to get into. Most jobs always haze the new guy. Unless it's something illegal being done to you then man up and do what youre told. Stop being so sensitive...
@@Leadsing1 Thank you for curing my ignorance. Let me ask you, how many people do you know that have been taken advantage of in an apprenticeship? or do you know anyone doing the exploiting?
Yeah, it's illegal not to pay your employees in the UK. Considering most tattooist want you there full-time, how tf can you live, even support a family, or pay your bills when a tattoo artist isn't paying you to scrub toilets?
" make a character out of these fools" prhases and mindsets like that are the reason why people dont get apprenticeships anymore. Its that stupid mindset of the older tsttoo artist that "I had to go through this, and so do you! SO GET TO CLEANING". If im paying someone to teach how to tattoo i dont want them to teach me irrelevant crap. If you have an apprentice to be your slave and lay little to no attention to him youre a bad person and shouldn't be in the industry.
What? I thought that most apprentices where paid at least minimum wage as shop hands with those responsibilities. It’s an investment on the mentor’s end because they are training a good future worker for their shop but those years afterward are the apprentice’s payment. This is crazy. No wonder there are so many shitty tattoo artists.
most people pay to learn, it’s not that unusual. even trade apprenticeships where you start out in the workforce and learn as you go will take it out of your paycheck if you’re getting classroom instruction. it seems like a better deal to work in exchange for an education than going to art school and having to work somewhere else on the side just to try and get ahead of your massive student loan debt
@@seguayeThis HAS to be an American system right? Apprenticeships are literally a job in Australia. You get a little less than minimum wage as your way of 'paying' for the learning
@@THICCTHICCTHICC yes, extremely American. there are some like, union apprenticeships that are paid like that but most skilled tradespeople either paid to go through a training program or vocational school, or they were hired at an entry level position and worked their way up, and never got formal instruction beyond what was needed to do their job. (at least in my area and in the trades I’m familiar with, America is a big place, and there are lot of very different fields under the umbrella of the trades)
My apprenticeship was unpaid, and this was my mentor’s mentality on it: he wants to teach. I want to learn. He liked my artwork and saw potential and took me on, and now we have an almost family-level relationship. I cleaned, set up and broke down stations, answered the phone, scrubbed the toilet, mopped the floor - everything. It takes effort on both sides to make a good apprenticeship. I am glad he took the chance on me even though he had no obvious motive to other than his desire to teach. I feel like that made my apprenticeship that much more meaningful
This is interesting. In the uk, all apprentices are paid (but the wages are extremely low. Nowhere near enough to live on). Most employers will receive money from the government to cover apprentice’s wages and recourses needed to teach them, not sure how it is in the USA. It doesnt really make sense to me to not pay apprentices. Labour, even if they’re unskilled, is still labour. Some apprenticeships can last over 3 years. It’s just not possible for most adults to work 4+ days a week with no money, especially when you’re not getting loans like you would in university
This is not how it is in the US. Unpaid apprenticeship to me is like an unpaid intern which in some states are illegal bc like you said unskilled labor is still labor. And no one in the US can afford to work for free basically unless you’re already rich or come from a wealthy family/lifestyle. I would genuinely like to know how unpaid apprentices make rent. And put food on their plate.
9:44 when i knew i wanted to learn how to tattoo, i picked up as much overtime as i was allowed to and saved up $10k in 6 months. When i found a shop i went down to part time, and dipped into the savings whenever i had to cover rent. After apprenticing for 10 months, i quit my part time job and spent 6 days of the week at the shop. Definitely good to have a plan financially before you even start!
All well and good if u r young, I’ve already done an apprenticeship, really can’t go back to earning much less. Learning at home is the only way for me, can’t imagine if u had a fam to support too
Even if they paid me they would scrub toilets too. But I’d be there next to them most of them time. If they paid me or not. There are two bathrooms in my shop. You get one I get the other. Unless I am busy making money for the shop. I think it is important that the apprentice sees me cleaning too. If they weren’t there I’d be doing it.
Maybe its a weird question but may i ask what makes scrubbing toilets so difficult? In this video its talked about like a humbling horrible chores and joked about in this way too and it just leaves me wondering how its done in a tattoo studio. I mean i clean my own house and ive known cleaning ladies who clean elderly people's homes and the toilets are often the easiest part, you just use the brush and scrub a bit the inside while flushing and then use some desinfectant/product with a towel and you clean the seat, and occasionally you clean the entire toilet with said toilet and its like easy and takes like 3 minutes maximum lol. So im wondering, do apprentices have to clean them multiple times a day? Or like scrub for really long to make sure its perfect, or are they particularly dirty? Or do they have to do the entire bathroom daily or something?
@@laurentcathery273 the reality is this. The bathrooms are taboo, in a way in the industry. They are the easiest place to cross contaminate in the shop. Some apprentices see the chore as a “you’re my bitch,” request. But when there is a busy day. The artists don’t really have the hour it takes to clean the bathroom. And then clean themselves properly to tattoo after. The shop that I am at has had a handful of scenarios that were very dramatic. One where a toddler painted the walls with a diaper. Just using this one as an example. The family came in to use the bathroom for the toddler and didn’t even get a tattoo. It was in the middle of a really busy day. So by default the only person in the shop who didn’t have a client at that moment was the apprentice. So they were asked to clean it. Unfortunately they took it to heart not seeing that if we didn’t have clients waiting on us we would have cleaned it. So the apprentice quit on the spot. The owner stopped what they were doing and cleaned the bathroom. Rescheduling their appointment so they could be sanitary. I agree with you it isn’t hard to clean a bathroom which is why I never make the apprentice clean them alone. As long as it is a normal bathroom cleaning at the end of the day. No matter how messy it is. And doesn’t affect the regular scheduling of clients.
@@devinwarren7654 oh i see! I dont really get social cues or norms so i had no idea there was this implication, for me its just part of the job so you gotta do what you gotta do. It also never crossed my mind that such an accurance youve described could have happened cause it seems so disrespectful, if the family is using the toilet, how are they not monitering their own toddler 🤯 and in a tattoo studio as well, seesh. Thank you for giving me an answer, this has been very insightful!
@@laurentcathery273 I am sure they stopped to talk to an artist and only let the toddler alone for a small window of time. What made me mad is they didn’t even tell us what the toddler did before they left. A customer found the bathroom like that.
I always say that the best owners of a business are the ones who don’t ask their employees to do what they refuse. I worked in a restaurant most of my life, the owner was grabbing a mop and a broom right along side us.
There's more than one way to tattoo.....some artists are heavy handed, some light handed, some go fast, some go slow, there's clean lines, raked lines, underworked, worked just enough, overworked, some tattoos are perfect, some are full of errors, there's clean work, sloppy work ......I have experienced all these things, going to professional tattoo shops..
🤔 I thought all tattoos were exactly the same. Are you trying to tell us that they are not?? Trying to say that we don't all have to have a swastika on the forehead??? What the...? Are you sure?
Just starting mine at 76. Been sweeping up and cleaning the bogs for 30. Can't wait to do my first, paid tattoo... then I will be able to buy some new glasses too. 🧐
I’m a year into my apprenticeship and I never understood the argument of a apprentice should or should not be paid. I never was paid for my labor nor did I pay for my mentors time. I was basically a beached whale when I first started. I needed a lot of guidance and help but my mentor saw the potential in me. She took the time to teach me. And the financially part. Sadly when I first started My apprenticeship I had 3 jobs simultaneously. It was hard to make myself financially sound but I wanted to make it work so I had no life for a long time. I’m down to 2 jobs now but it still is alot of work .
@@Rugmunchersauce3 Second or third job. You wouldn't be able to just get by anyway on just an apprenticeship if you got paid. It's like school. You (mostly) don't get paid to go to school but you need to find the time to handle schooling and work
Yeah dude, and THAT fucking sucks, it's something the industry needs to work on. Im 30 and im trying to learn how to tattoo. I have a wife and kid and full time job. But i love this. I know scratchers who are better than some fulltime artists, but the scratchers never had an apprenticeship, so no chance of getting hired by any shop. I get why apprenticeships are so important, but come on, there HAS to be another way.
@@felix-ve8jk 🤷 scratcher is a more generalized term for non-shop, non-mentored tattoo artist but also TikTok fuck boys too. It is what it is. So whatever you wanna call my friend, he's better that some shop employed artists
Thanks for this man I am 27 with a kid & also trying to figure out how to make this work. I’m hoping there are shops that will let me do a part time apprenticeship so I can also work
So im a tattoo artist. Ive worked at several shops. I paid 30%, 40%, 50%. But the shops i paid 40-50% provided way more supplies and was worth it. And like you said walk ins.
I love your stuff man just feel like apprentices deserve to get paid. Its kinda hard to work any job for free i understand theirs an exchange of infromatation and labor, but that dosnt put food on the table in the meantime, thats why i paid for an online mentorship, i had to give them money, but i can still get money for my tattoos, still tho love ur vids keep it up!
As someone who is looking to get into tattooing this was a great video! I am 16 and am studying, doining research so I could maybe have a chance to step foot in a studio and learn. I have always loved tattoos and i really want to learn
Oh yea my whole team is from Argentina, my apprentice and other tattooer are both from Rosario, my video editor is from Buenos Aires, and my business partner is from Cordoba hahaha
Before this video, when I heard "paid-unpaid apprenticeship" I always assumed it was the apprentice getting a salary or not☠️ it never even occurred to me that the apprentice might have to be the one paying ☠️ now I really want to know if it's a cultural thing or if it's the same everywhere ahah
@@quentinmartjno the paid apprenticeship is more like tuition. no scrubbing toilet and stuff(its diffrent from tattoo shcool) i actually don't get if apprentice get paid? cause they got some valuable stuff to learn, why would you get paid for learning? atleast in my place apprenticeship only help cleaning cause that studio is also used by them
@@mlem6756 an apprentice wouldn't get paid a full salary of course, because they are there to learn. But where I'm from, I've often heard of apprentices getting a reduced salary or anyways some kind of monetary compensation, simply because they do provide labor to the studio and they still need to support themselves somehow
I don’t get paid to go to college, this is an education and frankly scrubbing toilets for a year and working two jobs is a better option for some than having to pay off a student loan for a decade
Maybe you should get paid to go to college? My parents did, and as a result they were much more economically productive and weren’t saddled with the same debt my generation has. Why not?
@Jordan-0692 Yeah, literally any other trade will pay their apprentices lol. Here in Australia the pay for an apprentice can be pretty good. I cannot imagine a plumber or electrician or any other trade expecting their apprentices to work for free, let alone pay them for the 'privilege' of learning.
Another great video man. I had to pass on an apprenticeship circa 2012 and not sure where I'd be had I taken it. Bad shop, bad artists and overall was going to be a bad time. But I love tattooing and love drawing flash. Not in the cards for me but glad other people are able to make it work out.
I'd probably change the phrase "paid" apprentice to one who pays a tuition vs one who doesn't pay tuition but works off the cost of training. Basically like a trade school which is what it really is.
Anyone working and not getting paid is not right, period. Who can work 7 days a week for free but still have bills to pay? Just crazy. Also why does the artist have to have tattoos to tattoo someone?
As a mentor you're also trusting the apprentice will not take his skills and immediately leave to go to another shop ..... Seen it happen multiple times within one shop...
Despite going to every shop in Portland, what made me “give up” tattooing was our credential system. Instead of doing a traditional apprenticeship, Oregonians must attend a tattoo school and those cost anywhere between 10 and 20 grand. So, you’re right: there is an age where you cannot tattoo. I love making art and I love American traditional but, at this point in my career, I don’t want to take that risk.
I did what I had to do to get through nursing school. it was hard, but I had a dream and got it done. To get into a Luxury service area and have 0 plan is bad, as there will be times business is slow and as a working artist you will have to figure how you will keep the rent paid. When I was temporarily furloughed from a nursing home, I went and got another job doing PRN work to keep my bills paid. Work before, save ya coins. It wont be easy if its good.
I'm trying to get into nursing. I took my pre-requs and then had a life altering event happen in my family that is distracting me from applying because it's taking up so much of my time. Reading your comment was a great reminder that I'm the only one who can do this for me, and I'm going to have to put in the work! Gotta scramble and get it done! Thank you😉
@@whodoesntluvpapas I understand. My dad passed my last year and all that got me through many days was knowing my dad wouldn't want me to quit over him. He and my mom were so supportive and without them I wouldn't have started. It was hard, but I made it. Keep working on getting things sorted out and study. It's doable. Beat of luck to you, friendo 🫂
The problem in tattooing and apprenticeship is the overabundance of tattooers. Most of these tattooers won't last and don't belong in the industry in the first place.
And thats exactly the issue, for me, anyway; i would love to Apprentice, but im turning 30 this year, i have a wife and kid. Hiw could i possibly afford to apprentice? So does that just mean im shit out of luck? I just dont get to be a tattooer?
I would imagine you just have to ask around at tattoo shops and look for someone who loves your passion for it. I’d think higher end, more individualized tattoo shops and not walk ins would be a good bet. And then try to find someone who you can create a give and take with. Unfortunately learning a new art form takes a lot of time and practice but maybe someone in your area would offer a class for you to take
I've seen tattoo artist without tattoos, let alone apprentices. I'd never trust their work. If you don't think it's worth getting a tattoo why would that instill trust in me as a client.
that's a weird way to look at it..I've been in the industry since 98 i look like a school desk,but saying you wouldn't "trust " an artist because he doesn't have tattoos is like saying i wouldn't trust a pool builder because he doesn't have a pool. I know hundreds of artists that have almost full suits and their work is let's just say so so,then there's say Victoria Lee wich is 100% in the top 10 world's best artists, you can absolutely love to create art (many artists including myself merged to tattooing from other art mediums),and don't like tattoos on yourself, you can have skin conditions that don't allow you to get them and so on. Look up Victoria's work and tell me you wouldn't trust her
dude. u expect apprentice to have tattoo? they don't have money to get tattoo. you want them to get cheap tatto from street or what? or ask their momma money to get themself tattoed?
I think you've taken the paid/unpaid apprentice incorrectly. The apprentice is not getting paid for his labor, yes he's learning how to do everything but he is making no money being an apprentice in your shop. how do you expect that man to live after busting his ass in your shop for no money, working a full time paying job elsewhere. Do you think welding apprentices don't get paid? you would be incorrect if you thought that. The fact that unpaid apprentice even exist is what's actually wrong with this industry.
Usually an apprentice in other job areas would get paid during their time learning (maybe increasing to their skill set and responsibility), right? How come in tattooing it is the other way around and the apprentice has to pay to even be able to work and learn? I understand that as it is a lot about safety, hygiene and tattooing is a very high consequence craft, there is a long learning period before the apprentice is actually able to contribute to the money the shop is making. I still feel this would not be enough to validate actually paying your boss for your work. I also know I am not informed enough to have this as a fully formed, final opinion. I would be very interested in learning more about your perspective, what I am missing and maybe how this way of doing it developed in the tattoo industry/culture.
@8:23 Studying the piece is a given, I'm curious does this include observation of the individuals skin quality, texture/scars, skintone, age (person receiving piece), the placement, colors requested etc...? 🤔
I kinda think it would be fun to try to tattoo on the silicone mats...I have no plans to be a tattoo artist. I just wanna see what it feels like to tattoo something and definitely not a real person 😅
its funny how some people are worried about scrubbing a damn toilet lol. thats not even the point in all of this.One of the best ways to learn and grow is through struggles and hardships. if youre complaining about scrubbing a toilet to learn a lifestyle that will change not only your life but possibly your familys life as well then it looks like youre not meant for this and thats ok. u guys compare electrician/plumbing etc to tattooing and those shit trades dont change your life, tattooing will with the right mentor and mindset. its not a trade, its a LIFESTYLE. i guess a toilet will seperate a wolf from a sheep in LIFE. every successful inidividual will tell u to learn how to sacrifice for the bigger picture, taking risks etc... i had to pay 6500 for my apprentice while having 2 kids and preggo wife, i didnt sit there n fuckin cry . tattooing was what i wanted to pursue so i sucked it up and worked 7 days a week untill i was licensed. Now im taking care of my family and family calling me for advice and money when i was a fuck up growing up. if you truly want to tattoo, theres crazy resources out there and alot of good people that will help you on your journey but YOU have to put in the work as with anything else in LIFE.
Should I try to form some relationship with a shop and then reach out like, or could I literally just hit a random shop and be like "yo you want a free worker" ???
I'm 36, I've been deeply looking into switching my career from 20 years of freelance art. No kids, no expensive responsibilities. I was so worried about my age, but you really put that to bed. The only thing is is I am not living in the place that I want to start my apprenticeship at. Is there something I can do in the meantime before moving and looking for that apprenticeship job or shop hand job?
My dad went back to college in his 50's and got certified as a respiratory therapist. It's never too late to change it up and do something that makes you happy. 36 is YOUNG, you'll figure it out! But I see what you mean, it would be better to be somewhere that you like when taking on an endeavor that involves changing the trajectory of your career.
My friends daughter has a tattoo school apprenticeship and has no tattoos, i also don’t get it. How can someone learn how to best tattoo without any experience of what it is to get a tattoo. Thats like going to a mechanic who’d never driven before.
i understand the exchange of training for lack of pay, but when the culture is such a mess that you shouldnt even expect to be trained?? im not showing up to clean the shitter AND train myself. why even be there? the answer is always vague "that's just how it is" or "i got smacked and i turned out fine so i'm gonna smack you to show you how fine it is" type thing. just weird.
Yeah the paid apprentice thing isnt necessarily better. It builds up the idea that a shop is a family not just a gigg. Like the ultrasound tech my office hired fresh from school. He had to learn someplace so we took him on and he shadowed for awhile until he was able to to echocardiograms, then he was able to be on his own. Until he passed his class for vascular and then he learned from our other two techs for a few yrs. He was of course getting paid as an employee..but as soon as he was certified he left. So we put in a lot of time and energy teaching him hands on and then he split to work down the street. Now if he would have had to pay for that learning experience or if he would have had to sign a contract saying we'd take him on and teach him if he stayed for at least five yrs, would he have even taken the gigg
That kid sells an online course. He claims one of his clients who took his course is now a successful tattooer, shop owner making $70,000 a year. This is a lie. I know who the chic is because her shop is down the street from mine.
$70k a year might be an above average salary for most but for tattooing it's really not that far fetched, especially considering the power of the dollar today.
@@CrawlingPanther70k a year "not that far fetched "? If you're a shop owner(OR A TATTOO ARTIST PERIOD)and you're making 70k a year news flash, your work fkn sucks, not being mean about it's just stating the truth.Any good tattoo artist i know has an hourly rate of 250$ minimum this days
Someone who doesn’t mind paying a small amount for a less than perfect tattoo keeping in mind that they are giving someone the opportunity to perfect their craft.
y’all don’t need an apprenticeship. The people that founded this whole thing didn’t do apprenticeships. The only reason people in shops are saying you do is because they wanna shit on someone who’s new because it’s what happened to them. It’s ridiculous to expect me to be homeless and hungry for two years so you can get around to showing me how to lay a line down one time. 🙄
Labour is labour. I don’t know how you expect an adult to work a full-time job and survive, for no money. I understand there’s a system and a society in place around you, and “Well other people don’t do it so why should I?” But they’re scrubbing your toilets and cleaning your shop, they should be paid for it. You benefit from having them there because, like you said, eventually they’ll be another great tattooer who will bring more money in. This “Well I’m teaching you so that’s a fair trade for the work you do,” is a cop out; you’re training them because you know they’ll eventually start helping your shop financially. I don’t understand unpaid internships in any business, but perhaps because everything is so loose in the tattoo industry, it’s just more normalised? When you were an unpaid shop-hand for 2 years, LITERALLY where did your money come from?? I was waiting for you to answer and you never did…
I think Apprentices should provide sekshual favours too, to reduce the stress. It's not a very popular opinion but I have a LOT of Apprentices and they don't mind. We don't do many actual tattoos though...🤔
"shop hands and cleaning ladies scrub toilets so why not apprentices" because cleaning ladies are paid to do that lol. i mean kudos to you that you don't take money from apprentices but still it's unpaid labour
yes i do not pay the apprentices for there labour, and yes i do not get paid for the labour it cost to teach them how to tattoo.
we made a trade in labour that will benefit both of us.
pretty simple
@@kirkfagantattoo You said in the video though that even if they paid you would make them do it lmao.
@@kirkfagantattoo yeah if im paying you to teach me, im not scrubbing your toilet. if there no money involved, ill scrub the toilet no question. im not better than you because i wont pay to scrub your toilet im just not that dumb lol
But the difference is you’re getting an income while teaching that you can survive off. You’re not doing any unpaid labour, because firstly you ARE getting paid from the income of owning a shop, and secondly you’ll be paid even more when your apprentice becomes a tattooer and starts bringing in revenue. I understand tattoo shops probably have very little margins and don’t make a huge amount of profit, but having someone do unpaid cleaning and work for you is bullshit. It shouldn’t exist in any industry.
The apprentice is paying for the knowledge that they can use for a lifetime, but they still are working in the shop. So of course, they're not going to be able to sit on their ass all day. Daily cleaning is necessary in most customer service positions, including the bathrooms.
With such a loosey-goosey system I don't even want to imagine the amount of abuse that goes on in the tattoo industry.
bro is doing crazy mental gymnastics to rationalize his abusive behavior.
"well it happened to me, its just part of the culture, give them some character"
how to say you are drunk on power without saying you are drunk on the slightest amount of power lol.
14:10 self report.
Why not? Go on! Just imagine it for half an hour, you might like it.
@@Nimbus. It makes a decent amount of sense to me. The apprentice is not being compensated with current paychecks because they dont have the skill to be able to work there. They made an agreement to be compensated with knowledge that they can use in the future to make money. So they are contributing on a limited basis until they are ready. A tattoo shop is open to the public and provides a service to its customers. Anything that needs to be done immediately when every other professional is busy should of course be done by the apprentice because they do not have the skill to do what the others can do, so they should be asked to do everything else first. This system has been going on for hundreds of years for a reason. Its not about disrespect or woke bullying.
@@Leadsing1 okay, let me present a situation to you: Someone offers you the opportunity to attend a school free of charge and all they ask of you is to clean the bathrooms every day. Would you do it? I sure as hell would and I bet millions of others would prefer that over paying thousands in tuition. Yes, sometimes people take advantage of others, but you dont have to be there if you dont like it. People endure abuse just to join a Fraternity that they have to pay to get into. Most jobs always haze the new guy. Unless it's something illegal being done to you then man up and do what youre told. Stop being so sensitive...
@@Leadsing1 Thank you for curing my ignorance. Let me ask you, how many people do you know that have been taken advantage of in an apprenticeship? or do you know anyone doing the exploiting?
Great work Pepe you're killing it dude
Pepe is going to be a killer
@@kirkfagantattoo😮😮😮 At least the other prisoners will be able to get good tattoos then, I suppose.
Yeah, it's illegal not to pay your employees in the UK. Considering most tattooist want you there full-time, how tf can you live, even support a family, or pay your bills when a tattoo artist isn't paying you to scrub toilets?
" make a character out of these fools" prhases and mindsets like that are the reason why people dont get apprenticeships anymore. Its that stupid mindset of the older tsttoo artist that "I had to go through this, and so do you! SO GET TO CLEANING". If im paying someone to teach how to tattoo i dont want them to teach me irrelevant crap. If you have an apprentice to be your slave and lay little to no attention to him youre a bad person and shouldn't be in the industry.
What? I thought that most apprentices where paid at least minimum wage as shop hands with those responsibilities. It’s an investment on the mentor’s end because they are training a good future worker for their shop but those years afterward are the apprentice’s payment.
This is crazy. No wonder there are so many shitty tattoo artists.
most people pay to learn, it’s not that unusual. even trade apprenticeships where you start out in the workforce and learn as you go will take it out of your paycheck if you’re getting classroom instruction. it seems like a better deal to work in exchange for an education than going to art school and having to work somewhere else on the side just to try and get ahead of your massive student loan debt
@@seguayeThis HAS to be an American system right? Apprenticeships are literally a job in Australia. You get a little less than minimum wage as your way of 'paying' for the learning
@@THICCTHICCTHICC yes, extremely American. there are some like, union apprenticeships that are paid like that but most skilled tradespeople either paid to go through a training program or vocational school, or they were hired at an entry level position and worked their way up, and never got formal instruction beyond what was needed to do their job. (at least in my area and in the trades I’m familiar with, America is a big place, and there are lot of very different fields under the umbrella of the trades)
Yes this is crazy.. Holy fuck
My apprenticeship was unpaid, and this was my mentor’s mentality on it: he wants to teach. I want to learn. He liked my artwork and saw potential and took me on, and now we have an almost family-level relationship. I cleaned, set up and broke down stations, answered the phone, scrubbed the toilet, mopped the floor - everything. It takes effort on both sides to make a good apprenticeship. I am glad he took the chance on me even though he had no obvious motive to other than his desire to teach. I feel like that made my apprenticeship that much more meaningful
This is interesting. In the uk, all apprentices are paid (but the wages are extremely low. Nowhere near enough to live on). Most employers will receive money from the government to cover apprentice’s wages and recourses needed to teach them, not sure how it is in the USA. It doesnt really make sense to me to not pay apprentices. Labour, even if they’re unskilled, is still labour. Some apprenticeships can last over 3 years. It’s just not possible for most adults to work 4+ days a week with no money, especially when you’re not getting loans like you would in university
All apprentices? Where? Which studios are paying their apprentices in the UK?! What money do studios receive from the government?!
@@sarahpeartart. It's called a "Poopon Payment", check it out.
This is not how it is in the US. Unpaid apprenticeship to me is like an unpaid intern which in some states are illegal bc like you said unskilled labor is still labor.
And no one in the US can afford to work for free basically unless you’re already rich or come from a wealthy family/lifestyle.
I would genuinely like to know how unpaid apprentices make rent. And put food on their plate.
but it doesn't makesense if we get paid if we're the one who's learning
Tattoo apprentices are usually not paid in the UK. It is illegal, but it is the norm.
9:44 when i knew i wanted to learn how to tattoo, i picked up as much overtime as i was allowed to and saved up $10k in 6 months. When i found a shop i went down to part time, and dipped into the savings whenever i had to cover rent. After apprenticing for 10 months, i quit my part time job and spent 6 days of the week at the shop. Definitely good to have a plan financially before you even start!
This is good advice
All well and good if u r young, I’ve already done an apprenticeship, really can’t go back to earning much less. Learning at home is the only way for me, can’t imagine if u had a fam to support too
Even if they paid me they would scrub toilets too. But I’d be there next to them most of them time. If they paid me or not. There are two bathrooms in my shop. You get one I get the other. Unless I am busy making money for the shop.
I think it is important that the apprentice sees me cleaning too. If they weren’t there I’d be doing it.
Maybe its a weird question but may i ask what makes scrubbing toilets so difficult? In this video its talked about like a humbling horrible chores and joked about in this way too and it just leaves me wondering how its done in a tattoo studio. I mean i clean my own house and ive known cleaning ladies who clean elderly people's homes and the toilets are often the easiest part, you just use the brush and scrub a bit the inside while flushing and then use some desinfectant/product with a towel and you clean the seat, and occasionally you clean the entire toilet with said toilet and its like easy and takes like 3 minutes maximum lol. So im wondering, do apprentices have to clean them multiple times a day? Or like scrub for really long to make sure its perfect, or are they particularly dirty? Or do they have to do the entire bathroom daily or something?
@@laurentcathery273 the reality is this. The bathrooms are taboo, in a way in the industry. They are the easiest place to cross contaminate in the shop.
Some apprentices see the chore as a “you’re my bitch,” request. But when there is a busy day. The artists don’t really have the hour it takes to clean the bathroom. And then clean themselves properly to tattoo after.
The shop that I am at has had a handful of scenarios that were very dramatic. One where a toddler painted the walls with a diaper. Just using this one as an example. The family came in to use the bathroom for the toddler and didn’t even get a tattoo. It was in the middle of a really busy day. So by default the only person in the shop who didn’t have a client at that moment was the apprentice. So they were asked to clean it. Unfortunately they took it to heart not seeing that if we didn’t have clients waiting on us we would have cleaned it. So the apprentice quit on the spot. The owner stopped what they were doing and cleaned the bathroom. Rescheduling their appointment so they could be sanitary.
I agree with you it isn’t hard to clean a bathroom which is why I never make the apprentice clean them alone. As long as it is a normal bathroom cleaning at the end of the day. No matter how messy it is. And doesn’t affect the regular scheduling of clients.
@@devinwarren7654 oh i see! I dont really get social cues or norms so i had no idea there was this implication, for me its just part of the job so you gotta do what you gotta do. It also never crossed my mind that such an accurance youve described could have happened cause it seems so disrespectful, if the family is using the toilet, how are they not monitering their own toddler 🤯 and in a tattoo studio as well, seesh.
Thank you for giving me an answer, this has been very insightful!
@@laurentcathery273 I am sure they stopped to talk to an artist and only let the toddler alone for a small window of time. What made me mad is they didn’t even tell us what the toddler did before they left. A customer found the bathroom like that.
I always say that the best owners of a business are the ones who don’t ask their employees to do what they refuse. I worked in a restaurant most of my life, the owner was grabbing a mop and a broom right along side us.
There's more than one way to tattoo.....some artists are heavy handed, some light handed, some go fast, some go slow, there's clean lines, raked lines, underworked, worked just enough, overworked, some tattoos are perfect, some are full of errors, there's clean work, sloppy work ......I have experienced all these things, going to professional tattoo shops..
🤔 I thought all tattoos were exactly the same. Are you trying to tell us that they are not?? Trying to say that we don't all have to have a swastika on the forehead??? What the...?
Are you sure?
I got my apprenticeship after 30. It’s now or never, and we’re only getting older!
Looking for my apprenticeship at 39. Time keeps ticking. Now or never.
@@jeremyw6246I started my apprenticeship a month before I turned 40 ❤
Just starting mine at 76. Been sweeping up and cleaning the bogs for 30. Can't wait to do my first, paid tattoo... then I will be able to buy some new glasses too. 🧐
Good on all of yall !
I’m a year into my apprenticeship and I never understood the argument of a apprentice should or should not be paid.
I never was paid for my labor nor did I pay for my mentors time.
I was basically a beached whale when I first started. I needed a lot of guidance and help but my mentor saw the potential in me.
She took the time to teach me.
And the financially part.
Sadly when I first started My apprenticeship I had 3 jobs simultaneously.
It was hard to make myself financially sound but I wanted to make it work so I had no life for a long time.
I’m down to 2 jobs now but it still is alot of work .
That's really awesome. Keep up the good work and it'll all pay off one day. Trust.
Dedication.
hows your retirement account? the industry seem set up to have artists fail later in life.
I believe you misunderstood the paid vs unpaid apprenticeship. The debate is wether the apprentice should be paid or not
No that wasn't what the debate was about. The apprentice doesn't get paid in either scenario.
@@angle003. How do they get by?
@@Rugmunchersauce3 Second or third job. You wouldn't be able to just get by anyway on just an apprenticeship if you got paid. It's like school. You (mostly) don't get paid to go to school but you need to find the time to handle schooling and work
Yeah dude, and THAT fucking sucks, it's something the industry needs to work on. Im 30 and im trying to learn how to tattoo. I have a wife and kid and full time job. But i love this. I know scratchers who are better than some fulltime artists, but the scratchers never had an apprenticeship, so no chance of getting hired by any shop. I get why apprenticeships are so important, but come on, there HAS to be another way.
By definition a scratcher is not better than "some fulltime artists."
@@felix-ve8jk 🤷 scratcher is a more generalized term for non-shop, non-mentored tattoo artist but also TikTok fuck boys too. It is what it is. So whatever you wanna call my friend, he's better that some shop employed artists
Thanks for this man I am 27 with a kid & also trying to figure out how to make this work. I’m hoping there are shops that will let me do a part time apprenticeship so I can also work
So im a tattoo artist. Ive worked at several shops. I paid 30%, 40%, 50%. But the shops i paid 40-50% provided way more supplies and was worth it. And like you said walk ins.
I love your stuff man just feel like apprentices deserve to get paid. Its kinda hard to work any job for free i understand theirs an exchange of infromatation and labor, but that dosnt put food on the table in the meantime, thats why i paid for an online mentorship, i had to give them money, but i can still get money for my tattoos, still tho love ur vids keep it up!
In any other trade you would be paying your apprentice
As someone who is looking to get into tattooing this was a great video! I am 16 and am studying, doining research so I could maybe have a chance to step foot in a studio and learn. I have always loved tattoos and i really want to learn
Ohh I love that your apprentice is from Argentina, I'm from Argentina! Send him much love haha
Oh yea my whole team is from Argentina, my apprentice and other tattooer are both from Rosario, my video editor is from Buenos Aires, and my business partner is from Cordoba hahaha
@@kirkfagantattoo you are surrounded Kirk, now drink mate before they get mad
@@kirkfagantattoo whaat? I'm a tattooer from Rosario! It's so nice to hear 😍
Before this video, when I heard "paid-unpaid apprenticeship" I always assumed it was the apprentice getting a salary or not☠️ it never even occurred to me that the apprentice might have to be the one paying ☠️ now I really want to know if it's a cultural thing or if it's the same everywhere ahah
Same here. I was a bit shocked 😅 I‘m from Germany and over here the apprentice is always getting paid
@@sabrinaartist7269 good to know that I'm not going insane ahaha, so it is probably cultural depending on the place
No i think you had it right. I’m pretty sure the clip was talking about whether or not the apprentice should be paid
@@quentinmartjno the paid apprenticeship is more like tuition. no scrubbing toilet and stuff(its diffrent from tattoo shcool)
i actually don't get if apprentice get paid? cause they got some valuable stuff to learn, why would you get paid for learning? atleast in my place apprenticeship only help cleaning cause that studio is also used by them
@@mlem6756 an apprentice wouldn't get paid a full salary of course, because they are there to learn. But where I'm from, I've often heard of apprentices getting a reduced salary or anyways some kind of monetary compensation, simply because they do provide labor to the studio and they still need to support themselves somehow
Pay your goddam employees, everything else is exploitation.
They didnt want to but im sure they will after seeing ur comment.
I don’t get paid to go to college, this is an education and frankly scrubbing toilets for a year and working two jobs is a better option for some than having to pay off a student loan for a decade
Maybe you should get paid to go to college? My parents did, and as a result they were much more economically productive and weren’t saddled with the same debt my generation has. Why not?
but they give us something to learn in return of your work
@Jordan-0692 Yeah, literally any other trade will pay their apprentices lol. Here in Australia the pay for an apprentice can be pretty good. I cannot imagine a plumber or electrician or any other trade expecting their apprentices to work for free, let alone pay them for the 'privilege' of learning.
Another great video man. I had to pass on an apprenticeship circa 2012 and not sure where I'd be had I taken it. Bad shop, bad artists and overall was going to be a bad time. But I love tattooing and love drawing flash. Not in the cards for me but glad other people are able to make it work out.
If an apprentice comes with character do they still have to scrub toilets to become a distinguished tattooer 🤣😂🤣
I'd probably change the phrase "paid" apprentice to one who pays a tuition vs one who doesn't pay tuition but works off the cost of training. Basically like a trade school which is what it really is.
Anyone working and not getting paid is not right, period. Who can work 7 days a week for free but still have bills to pay? Just crazy. Also why does the artist have to have tattoos to tattoo someone?
As a mentor you're also trusting the apprentice will not take his skills and immediately leave to go to another shop ..... Seen it happen multiple times within one shop...
Despite going to every shop in Portland, what made me “give up” tattooing was our credential system.
Instead of doing a traditional apprenticeship, Oregonians must attend a tattoo school and those cost anywhere between 10 and 20 grand. So, you’re right: there is an age where you cannot tattoo.
I love making art and I love American traditional but, at this point in my career, I don’t want to take that risk.
I did what I had to do to get through nursing school. it was hard, but I had a dream and got it done. To get into a Luxury service area and have 0 plan is bad, as there will be times business is slow and as a working artist you will have to figure how you will keep the rent paid. When I was temporarily furloughed from a nursing home, I went and got another job doing PRN work to keep my bills paid. Work before, save ya coins. It wont be easy if its good.
I'm trying to get into nursing. I took my pre-requs and then had a life altering event happen in my family that is distracting me from applying because it's taking up so much of my time. Reading your comment was a great reminder that I'm the only one who can do this for me, and I'm going to have to put in the work! Gotta scramble and get it done! Thank you😉
@@whodoesntluvpapas I understand. My dad passed my last year and all that got me through many days was knowing my dad wouldn't want me to quit over him. He and my mom were so supportive and without them I wouldn't have started. It was hard, but I made it. Keep working on getting things sorted out and study. It's doable. Beat of luck to you, friendo 🫂
The bathroom better be spotless every time I go in there 😅😂
The problem in tattooing and apprenticeship is the overabundance of tattooers. Most of these tattooers won't last and don't belong in the industry in the first place.
3 years jesus thats too long
Love your attitude and presentation. You got a new subscriber out of me
if you're requiring shop work, you should pay a shop wage.
And thats exactly the issue, for me, anyway; i would love to Apprentice, but im turning 30 this year, i have a wife and kid. Hiw could i possibly afford to apprentice? So does that just mean im shit out of luck? I just dont get to be a tattooer?
I would imagine you just have to ask around at tattoo shops and look for someone who loves your passion for it. I’d think higher end, more individualized tattoo shops and not walk ins would be a good bet. And then try to find someone who you can create a give and take with. Unfortunately learning a new art form takes a lot of time and practice but maybe someone in your area would offer a class for you to take
I've seen tattoo artist without tattoos, let alone apprentices. I'd never trust their work. If you don't think it's worth getting a tattoo why would that instill trust in me as a client.
that's a weird way to look at it..I've been in the industry since 98 i look like a school desk,but saying you wouldn't "trust " an artist because he doesn't have tattoos is like saying i wouldn't trust a pool builder because he doesn't have a pool. I know hundreds of artists that have almost full suits and their work is let's just say so so,then there's say Victoria Lee wich is 100% in the top 10 world's best artists, you can absolutely love to create art (many artists including myself merged to tattooing from other art mediums),and don't like tattoos on yourself, you can have skin conditions that don't allow you to get them and so on. Look up Victoria's work and tell me you wouldn't trust her
dude. u expect apprentice to have tattoo? they don't have money to get tattoo. you want them to get cheap tatto from street or what? or ask their momma money to get themself tattoed?
I think you've taken the paid/unpaid apprentice incorrectly. The apprentice is not getting paid for his labor, yes he's learning how to do everything but he is making no money being an apprentice in your shop. how do you expect that man to live after busting his ass in your shop for no money, working a full time paying job elsewhere. Do you think welding apprentices don't get paid? you would be incorrect if you thought that. The fact that unpaid apprentice even exist is what's actually wrong with this industry.
Comparing welding to being a tattoo artist is unfair. Welding is a much dangerous job
Usually an apprentice in other job areas would get paid during their time learning (maybe increasing to their skill set and responsibility), right? How come in tattooing it is the other way around and the apprentice has to pay to even be able to work and learn?
I understand that as it is a lot about safety, hygiene and tattooing is a very high consequence craft, there is a long learning period before the apprentice is actually able to contribute to the money the shop is making. I still feel this would not be enough to validate actually paying your boss for your work. I also know I am not informed enough to have this as a fully formed, final opinion.
I would be very interested in learning more about your perspective, what I am missing and maybe how this way of doing it developed in the tattoo industry/culture.
14:34 don’t let Kirk have kids 💀
Please make a video together with Pepe!! 🤩
Mr. Fagan isa great person who makes great vids
god bless
Indeed.
@8:23 Studying the piece is a given, I'm curious does this include observation of the individuals skin quality, texture/scars, skintone, age (person receiving piece), the placement, colors requested etc...? 🤔
I personally would never let someone tattoo me who does not have tattoos themselves. I find this to be a huge red flag.
I don't think I have enough experience or information to chime in on that 😅 My artist has lots of tattoos. I picked her because I really like her work
I personally wouldn’t mind if their pieces were to my liking but to each their own
doesn't what matter is their portfolio and their healed tattoo prove? you knnow they could have skin issue?
I kinda think it would be fun to try to tattoo on the silicone mats...I have no plans to be a tattoo artist. I just wanna see what it feels like to tattoo something and definitely not a real person 😅
I like your channel a lot! You're gonna blow up :) commenting to help your algorithm😎
its funny how some people are worried about scrubbing a damn toilet lol. thats not even the point in all of this.One of the best ways to learn and grow is through struggles and hardships. if youre complaining about scrubbing a toilet to learn a lifestyle that will change not only your life but possibly your familys life as well then it looks like youre not meant for this and thats ok. u guys compare electrician/plumbing etc to tattooing and those shit trades dont change your life, tattooing will with the right mentor and mindset. its not a trade, its a LIFESTYLE. i guess a toilet will seperate a wolf from a sheep in LIFE. every successful inidividual will tell u to learn how to sacrifice for the bigger picture, taking risks etc... i had to pay 6500 for my apprentice while having 2 kids and preggo wife, i didnt sit there n fuckin cry . tattooing was what i wanted to pursue so i sucked it up and worked 7 days a week untill i was licensed. Now im taking care of my family and family calling me for advice and money when i was a fuck up growing up. if you truly want to tattoo, theres crazy resources out there and alot of good people that will help you on your journey but YOU have to put in the work as with anything else in LIFE.
I love this channel
Should I try to form some relationship with a shop and then reach out like, or could I literally just hit a random shop and be like "yo you want a free worker" ???
I’m not paying anyone to scrub their crapper. That’s absurd
This was super informative 😊
If I had the patience to draw I would love to be a tattoo artist
Patience and skill which takes awhile to build lol
@@FoB39 I can’t even imagine how frustrating it is for tattoo artists to have a level of control when it comes to drawing
@@zachnoe4503 learning how to draw is a MFer , but its worth working thru the frustration.
@@FoB39 how long have you been tattooing?
@@zachnoe4503 no experience still learning to draw and building a portfolio to get an apprenticeship
I'm 36, I've been deeply looking into switching my career from 20 years of freelance art. No kids, no expensive responsibilities. I was so worried about my age, but you really put that to bed.
The only thing is is I am not living in the place that I want to start my apprenticeship at. Is there something I can do in the meantime before moving and looking for that apprenticeship job or shop hand job?
My dad went back to college in his 50's and got certified as a respiratory therapist. It's never too late to change it up and do something that makes you happy. 36 is YOUNG, you'll figure it out! But I see what you mean, it would be better to be somewhere that you like when taking on an endeavor that involves changing the trajectory of your career.
My friends daughter has a tattoo school apprenticeship and has no tattoos, i also don’t get it. How can someone learn how to best tattoo without any experience of what it is to get a tattoo. Thats like going to a mechanic who’d never driven before.
i'm also tattoo school apprentice.. to simply put why i don't have tattoo yet. i have no money yet. i would get a tattoo once i have my own money
i understand the exchange of training for lack of pay, but when the culture is such a mess that you shouldnt even expect to be trained?? im not showing up to clean the shitter AND train myself. why even be there? the answer is always vague "that's just how it is" or "i got smacked and i turned out fine so i'm gonna smack you to show you how fine it is" type thing. just weird.
Pepe we are rooting for you!!! 😊
Yeah the paid apprentice thing isnt necessarily better. It builds up the idea that a shop is a family not just a gigg. Like the ultrasound tech my office hired fresh from school. He had to learn someplace so we took him on and he shadowed for awhile until he was able to to echocardiograms, then he was able to be on his own. Until he passed his class for vascular and then he learned from our other two techs for a few yrs. He was of course getting paid as an employee..but as soon as he was certified he left. So we put in a lot of time and energy teaching him hands on and then he split to work down the street. Now if he would have had to pay for that learning experience or if he would have had to sign a contract saying we'd take him on and teach him if he stayed for at least five yrs, would he have even taken the gigg
Un capo Pepe, la cara lo delata 🇦🇷
I want a video about YOUR journey! Im curious because you keep saying socal, but your shop is in Mexico, Puerta Vallarta?
I used pig skin too!!!! Better than the fake one!!!
Great, informative video!🙏🏼
Trust Cpt. Kirk and Ensign Pepe! No joke! 👍
That kid sells an online course. He claims one of his clients who took his course is now a successful tattooer, shop owner making $70,000 a year. This is a lie. I know who the chic is because her shop is down the street from mine.
$70k a year might be an above average salary for most but for tattooing it's really not that far fetched, especially considering the power of the dollar today.
$70k for a self employed tattooist and shop owner is not successful at all
@@CrawlingPanther70k a year "not that far fetched "?
If you're a shop owner(OR A TATTOO ARTIST PERIOD)and you're making 70k a year news flash, your work fkn sucks, not being mean about it's just stating the truth.Any good tattoo artist i know has an hourly rate of 250$ minimum this days
@@inb4230😂😂😂😂😂 Famous tattooers barley get 250$ an hr...
Can you react to people who tattoo themselves?
Who in their right mind is getting tattooed by someone who has been in the industry for 6 months!?
We all start somewhere
Someone who doesn’t mind paying a small amount for a less than perfect tattoo keeping in mind that they are giving someone the opportunity to perfect their craft.
y’all don’t need an apprenticeship. The people that founded this whole thing didn’t do apprenticeships. The only reason people in shops are saying you do is because they wanna shit on someone who’s new because it’s what happened to them. It’s ridiculous to expect me to be homeless and hungry for two years so you can get around to showing me how to lay a line down one time. 🙄
Killin it
6:20 😂😂😂😂😂
Labour is labour. I don’t know how you expect an adult to work a full-time job and survive, for no money. I understand there’s a system and a society in place around you, and “Well other people don’t do it so why should I?” But they’re scrubbing your toilets and cleaning your shop, they should be paid for it. You benefit from having them there because, like you said, eventually they’ll be another great tattooer who will bring more money in. This “Well I’m teaching you so that’s a fair trade for the work you do,” is a cop out; you’re training them because you know they’ll eventually start helping your shop financially. I don’t understand unpaid internships in any business, but perhaps because everything is so loose in the tattoo industry, it’s just more normalised? When you were an unpaid shop-hand for 2 years, LITERALLY where did your money come from?? I was waiting for you to answer and you never did…
They’re paid for it with their education, dude
I agree with your last point. I kinda lost a bit of respect for one of my most favorite artists Victoria Lee, when I realised she had no tattoos
Great watch
This channel is just hella negative
All hail Pepe🙌
lol 14:10 self report.
LFG Pepe!
Go bro
Real
Okayyyy pepe
I think Apprentices should provide sekshual favours too, to reduce the stress. It's not a very popular opinion but I have a LOT of Apprentices and they don't mind. We don't do many actual tattoos though...🤔