How To Hold A Glide Slope - The SECRET that pro pilots know
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- Опубліковано 28 гру 2017
- In this video, we review a technique that will help you nail precision approaches in IFR flying. Fly Your Best!
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Love these bite sized, real world training sessions!
FlightChops thanks Steve!
Quick reference technique: Take whatever your GS is and add a zero to it and then divide by two and that should be what you hold on your VVI. So if your GS is 200 knots, you add a zero and get 2000, then divide by two and you get 1000 ft/min on your VVI to hold the glideslope. This is helpful if you are changing your speeds based on configuration throughout the approach.
Some pilots don't have GS displayed and besides groundspeeds can change drastically when there's a windshear somewhere along the descent. Why go through that extra unnecessary workload? Every pilot has all that is needed right on the panel - just follow the glideslope needle. That's all an autopilot does with perfect results every time.
I like your videos.
With regards to GS and airspeed control, I respectfully suggest a 180 change from your method. I would trim/pitch for airspeed and throttle for GS. This is based on the excellent text “Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators.”
Without going into a long winded discussion, if the plane is ultimately trimmed to 90, or any desired speed, then simply throttle for GS. If high, throttle back and if low, do the opposite. Try it. If stable and trimmed, you don’t even have to scan the airspeed and attitude indicators (But one should still scan it). Flying is then easy. I do this method from radio control airplanes, to all light aircraft that I fly and even the 737 at work.
That’s what we were also taught too at my flight school. Pitch controls speed, and power controls altitude.
That's what I teach my students. Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude. It works for paper airplanes too.
Here (UK) it's also the main principle for visual flying and non-precision approach, but for ILS it's being taught in reverse by many instructors.
Military and civilian training I got was pitch/trim for speed then throttle for altitude control on the gs.
If you pitch for altitude it causes all kinds of other possible issues, chasing airspeed or altitude and now your distracted which = "dear so and so, I regret to inform you that your son/daughter hit a tree/building etc, basically CFIT. An unstable appr can pop up quickly and then your behind the airplane.
I really like your teaching style. Stopping the video to talk about some key points and then getting back on...
Thanks!
Thanks for being so calm. Your positivity towards your student goes along way. I liked what you said about the glide slope, “ the situation might be a little different but this will be darn close”. I also find that 90 with 500 ft descent may not be perfect but it is pretty darn close. - keep these going! #TFP
Thanks Paul! I will keep them coming
It is only close because the wind is seldom calm. So, you need to adjust for the fact that at 90 IAS your ground speed will rarely be 90.
@@LTVoyager True, but this is a great starting point to build upon.
GS x 5 = approximate VS
Helps adjust to other conditions. And of course wind layers change during descent too.
Your instruction and presentation skills are the best.
Her radio communication skills is just flawless. 😮
Scrolled down to check before posting this exact same thing. You read my mind. She did great!
Awesome! Thanks so much for this. It's a tool I'll be using often!
One of the best Gide slope tips.
If this is her first approach, she is VERY good. Beyond very good. Great instruction, too.
James Wills thanks James, yes she was doing great!
You just come across as a best friend. Wish we lived closer. I'd love to have you as an instructor. If you ever get to Cape Cod....
I did this today and it worked perfectly. Thank you Jason!
I'm just 1 month away from starting my IFR... Super Excited!
Wow! That was really good and useful. Thanks to Anita as well. great job.
Spot on. Key teaching on airspeed and 500 fpm. Nicely done!
Loved this video. I’m 4flights into my ifr training . I am still struggling with maintaining proper glide slope. I’ll try this method tomorrow in my flight and I’m pretty sure it will work. Thanks for the video :)
Excellent video. I worked toward my Instrument Rating some years ago. I wish the procedures had been broken down into such a practical way.
This is an old thread, but seriously, how do you only have 27k subscribers? I wish I was in CA so I could take lessons from you. Your content is outstanding, informative, and well produced! You might be one of UA-cam's best kept aviation secrets, haha.
I like it that you change the problem to what is direct rather than chase a power to needle to power feedback loop
So glade your teaching pitch for the rate of descent, power for speed. Talking about a sight picture! Just drive the car down the hill. Attitude plus power equals performance.
This is a clear way to understand the glide scope! I believe you did a back country training in East Peoria,IL I attended.
Man Jason such an awesome tip! Thx again for what you do!
this is one of my favorite videos, you make it look so damn easy.
Amazing video! It really helped clarify some doubts I had.
Thank you!
amumumus you're welcome!
I wish my IFR instructor was even half as good as this instructor is. Although I finally received my rating, I learned that by watching videos like this, I received more knowledge from the videos that I put into practice from videos like this than from my actual former instructor. Thanks so much and please keep making these videos.
Thanks for the compliment ... and ... sorry to hear you had such a bad CFI. I'm glad I could pick up some of the slack here, will definitely keep making these videos :)
You do such a great job instructing. I'm working on my CFI now so a lot of your videos have been a huge inspiration for me. Im so glad I stumbled across your channel! I really enjoy your teaching style and the way you make a lot of these techniques and maneuvers look easy. I wish more CFIs had your level of passion. It is obvious you love what you do. Keep up the good work, it is truly appreciated!
Awesome Niccolai! Thanks. I'm glad you found it too
Good lesson, the student is paying attention and will have this needle chasing tamed in no time and having fun with it!
Thanks so much for these great videos. I’m a new CFII and have already been using a lot of little tips I get from you to help teach.
You're welcome Luke! That's great to hear, I'm glad you're getting a lot out of them.
Jason, just a note to say thank you from one of your fans. As a private pilot and a scuba instructor beginning back in the 80's I have seen a lot of changes in technology in both industries, but as an instructor, there have always been a few constants for GREAT vs. good teachers. You obviously love what you do, and your students and fans can sense that. You are warm, caring, accessible, and knowledgeable which you love to pass on. Thanks for all of the work that you put into your wonderful video's, it is very much appreciated. I learned how to fly out of Napa, and watching your Bay Area and Sierra Nevada videos sure bring back some great memories of living there. Thanks again and keep them coming..... Steve Mesa Az.
Steve Castro thanks so much for that comment Steve, it’s great to hear that folks notice and that the work is appreciated.
Excellent video. If ever wanted to go go back and get instrument rated I would love to have this instructor.
I just found your podcast on pandora, i just wanna thank you for what ur doing in the aviation community. Will be listening to your podcasts everyday!!
Thank you!
An amazing skill to add - and one to continually hone!
LoL - I almost choked on my coffee.......
Thanks for the video, I actually learned a bit different: Power for pitch and trim for airspeed.
Cheers
Why the hell doesn't this channel have way more subscribers? I am not a pilot yet, only had an intro lesson but I totally get all of those points. They even improved my flying on the Simulators
I only have positive things to say about your instruction style and content. I am an ‘old’ airline training captain and checkpilot who decided to get back into GA instructing. I found your videos and enjoy the reminders they give me. My comment is this; maybe you touch on this with your students, but 500fpm at 90kts ground speed is actually off. (It is a good starting place, and maybe that’s all you want them to know at that point). In a Cessna you can get a way with it. But, if you teach “half the ground speed, and add a zero” that will be nuts on at any speed. So if your students transition to jets, or even faster light twins, a 140kt approach is easily calculated to 700fpm, and so on. Keep up the great work.
AS USUAL OUTSTANDING VIDEO AND EXCELLENT ADVICE!!
Will be beginning my instrument training soon!! Awesome!!! Thank You!!
747-pilot sure! Good luck with your training
Great teaching technique. Subscribed
Holding a glidepath or glideslope is a matter of power management. Small or large airplane and even rotorwing, though in this case is power/torque management. Nice vid.
Another great video, Jason! Well done!
Thanks Troy!
Very cool !! Thanks for sharing !
Awesome video! As always!!
Just discovered your channel and I love it. Nice job !
Thanks! 🙌
anita is a great sport--but she is also nailing it!! the pause to focus and circle the indicated gauges with emphasis. like how the focus on that will hold the ILS needles like magic. I will hear your voice now in my ear 'power for 90-pitch 500..' #tfp
She did a terrific job!
Hello Jason, i learn alot from you, thank you for sharing your experience with clear explanation. I see your videos lately because i am newly into aviation but isnt it “ Ground speed x 5 = descent rate and DME distance x 300 = descent height “ one of the basic thumb rules ? Why no instructor in youtube mentions it i am confused.? Do i miss something ? Is it only for mrjt airplanes?
Beautiful lesson.
Oh to fly! Thx!
Thank you for making videos that help us pilots each and every time. I’m am just starting to learn IFR and can not wait to use this tactic on my next flight. #TFP
Hi Jacob, congratulations! you are on the short list for winning the December Flight Chops contest --- yay. What I need you to do is email me at jason at learnthefinerpoints dot com and I can fill you in on what's next
Nice explanation!
Fantastic tip
Great. Right on the numbers .
Thank you. It's rare to find real training tips on youtube that aren't filled with stupid disclaimers.
An Just like that a VFR pilot learned something very important about IFR flying👍👍
I have been flying quite a few ILS approaches over the last few weeks as part of IFR training. This really helps me make the approach more systematic and less of a guess work. I have an amazing CFI but being able to watch somebody do it from my couch is pretty helpful. Thanks !
BOOM, that's what I want to hear, awesome! You're most welcome
Hi Omar congratulations! you are on the short list for winning the December Flight Chops contest --- yay. What I need you to do is email me at jason at learnthefinerpoints dot com and I can fill you in on what's next
Great video. Just got my ppl last week, can’t wait to start on instrument.
#tfp
Just starting my instrument training and this is a great little nugget to remember when flying an ILS. I remember the first ILS I flew in VFR conditions with a pilot friend of mine and was chasing the needles all over the place. #TFP
I always let my students fly at least one ILS in visual conditions to see that the runway never moves. It's the trend on the needle that's important. If it's headed toward the center don't change a thing
Every pilot chases the needles the first time, and many pilots chase the needles every time. 🛫
Wow. This is amazing! Thanks! I'm instrument rated but was never taught to use power setting to hold glideslope. It looks much easier than chasing the damn needles, which gets challenging close to the runway. I'm definitely going to try this during my soon-coming instrument training for my comp check (haven't flown IFR in a while & need this). Questions, how does one figure out the needed power setting? Trial & error? Is every plane going to be different, or will all 152s be the same, all Archers the same, etc?
Writing more for myself: Now a rusty pilot and part of it was my constant frustration, distraction and yes stress over the Pitch vs Power question. I was so tired over my lack of confidence in "which one to control what?" is best. I was ace at holding a GS or so I was always told but inside I fought demons always wondering how to do it best and I think my ability was in my reflexes to catch it quickly and often used both controls. But that is a lot of distracting workload in IFR. I got better but now rusty I THINK I recall this: 1) of course never forget one affects the other 2) Know my power/trim settings to set up the trend 3) If I use the theoretical (I'll call S&Rudder) "Power for altitude" thinking, I'm gonna sink right through the GS I was getting back down to unless I anticipate and power back up early because reducing power doesn't automatically stop the descent at the GS (vice versa for climbing back up). AND I may be doing this behind the power curve where inputs will be even wilder. In other words, I think in the end it's BEST to think SMALL CHANGES with STICK - it's a faster correction and more forgiving than power changes (where getting behind the curve can be fatal). Use S&R to set up the approach but stick for the small altitude changes. Once back on GS IF speed is changing (likely will not once settled in) then power adjust to compensate. It goes against what we are taught for S&R skills but really, that's for setting trends and not small changes otherwise you end up "chasing the needle" and becoming distracted. 4) ALWAYS remember if too low/too slow Peddle to the metal and lower the nose - in other words remembering the power curve and Wolfgang's Stick and Rudder theory comes back to save the day - you can always go around. Also, classic Wolfgang's S&R skills are critical in slow flight and when behind the power curve but at cruise or anytime there's lot's of momentum and airflow going, I'd fix altitude with stick first then set trim and power because varying power 'first' sets up a new trend and I'd end up fiddling sometimes my entire flight to try and get it right leading to exhaustion.
Of course, for MAJOR changes, always remember to use both as one does affect the other. In time it become second nature to do both.
Nice instructions
Beautiful!! Now I know
Thank you!!
Another great vid!
Great Video. Thanks
Glad you liked it!
Awesome info as always!!! Good video!!!
Mike Farlow thanks Mike!
Also signed up for info for this year's San Juan Islands trip... bummed I couldn't do it in 2017. And if you find yourself in DFW area, the welcome mat is lit for a BBQ flight to the Hard8 near KSEP!
Jason , you are really the high bar of all things flight training.
Thanks Will 🙏🏻
I’ve always flown pitch for airspeed power for altitude. Much easier to catch your altitude with power… got all the way through instrument and a single engine approach on my commercial multi checkride doing this method. To each their own
Excellent. I've only seen a couple of your videos but you're very good.
One of my pet peeves is a 5,000 pilots sawing on the yoke in turbulence trying to keep the wings level.... Pilot induced oscillation makes me sick. Hope you cover that sometime. (Comm since 68)
Thank you! 🙏🏻
Great video
Great clip!
If you happen to be using Jeppesen approach plates then there is a FPM vs grounds speed on the plate. Also for a quickie if you have your ground speed readout and let’s say it’s 95 it’s then add a zero and decide by 2 and that gives you a pretty good fpm to maintain a 3deg glide slope.
I'm a fan of 5 times your groundspeed divided by 3 times your glideslope (5 * groundspeed * glideslope / 3), more easily expressed as 5/3 * ground speed * glideslope or 5/3xy. 9 times out of 10 the glideslope calculation cancels out to 1 since 3 degrees is the standard but with some quick rounded mental math it gives you the ballpark descent rate for any glideslope you may need.
This formula has application for enroute climbs/descents as well as various other times where you might need to maintain a particular slope.
as for me where there are videos which relate the aircraft, I click, I like it :D
Great way to make someone chase the VSI.
Would love to see her in action partial panel. It will be a roller coaster
you helped me pass my test, not the check ride, thank you so much
Excellent Lance! Congrats, that makes me happy :)
Great video and content. That oil pressure needle got my attention barely a minute into though. ;-)
The main thing I would keep in mind is there is a particular power setting that will produce a certain decent rate. Like in the video he references 1700 rpm. You have to have a general reference whether landing visually or flying an approach. A good rule of thumb is A/S x 5= VSI(rate) 450fpm. This will keep you on the g/s. Pitch for airspeed, adjust power for glide. IMHO.
do these speed values work for my flying boat/warship/fighter/attack craft?
Pitch for airspeed, power for altitude. Works in both VFR and IFR.
well done.
Great tip. Curious to see how it varies at airspeeds below 90 kts, which is above my Vfe.
Yeah me too, for me my landing speed in a 150 is 65 to 75 kts
This video was so helpful in understanding what I can do at airports without VASI / PAPI when I fly small G.A. in FSX.
Or MSFS 2020 :D
Jason really enjoying your videos, please make them more often, wish the distance was not so far in between, would have liked to shake your hand man. Appreciate these tips. Thumbs up!
Thanks Kurtay! Your request is noted ... Patreon has been helping a lot there and there a couple more sponsors threatening to come on. I'd love to make them more often but at the end of the day it's about how much time I can spend editing as opposed to flying / lecturing. Doing my best to bring them every other week for now and weekly when I hit 1000 patrons. Thanks for your kind words and let me know if you're ever going to be out in the bay, we'll go fly!
Great my friend. Let me know if you need any help with editing (my support/help to/for you).
I did my IR in a twin, and my instructor taught me Ground Speed x 5 = Rate of Descent on an instrument approach. I guess that would result in similar performance to this method.
excellent teaching. Almost as good as FlightChops
Joann Somers: oh lol - wrong wrong wrong!
Nobody but nobody is as good as Chops . . .
at being Chops : )
Thank you from a msfs 2020 pilot
Thanks.
And for those curious, in skyhawks, piper warrior/Cherokee’s (most normally aspirated fixed gear aircraft) 2100 rpm’s and proper trim will give you level flight at 90kts in landing configuration. 1900 rpm’s when you reach the glide slope will give you about 500 fpm descent at 90kts. Don’t pitch up or down!! If you get low increase power, if you get high, decrease power (small adjustments only)
Does this power setting work with a piper pa 28 161 cadet?
Great video. I am understanding what you mean by the finer points. Like my instructor tells me all the time the plane will fly its self. It’s up to me to get it to the place I want to go. #TFP
I like that, thx Danny
Hi Danny, congratulations! you are on the short list for winning the December Flight Chops contest --- yay. What I need you to do is email me at jason at learnthefinerpoints dot com and I can fill you in on what's next
The Finer Points really me
*hey great video! Appreciate how calm you were, and the video was edited very simple to understand too. Love this video! Also, 90 seems kind of fast?*
Airliners fly approaches a lot faster than that.
Colin Rasmussen jets have two engines, thousands of gallons of kore fuel, and will stall if they fly anywhere near the speed of a Cessna on final. Totally different planes, I meant 90 seemed fast for a C172 but also mine isn’t in mph it’s in kts
Veni Vidi Amavi I prefer to fly the ILS @ 105kts in the 172.
This was posted 3 months ago, just hoping you got the left fuel indicator fixed by now. 👀
Nice vid, I found it very useful to thoroughly brief the student on the ground. Ensure that they had 'ball park numbers' for power settings, and that they were totally secure in knowing how to control airspeed and rate of descent and that they understood the value of maintaining a well organised scan. I regarded that ‘instruction' was done in the classroom. Which meant that flight time was prompts and coaching. Attempting to 'teach' while flying is counter productive and confusing and poor value for money. Sadly there are are flight instructors who are in the game to get the biggest buck for the smallest bang and the student is totally at their mercy.,
Newb question. Does that only work for a Cessna? I’m just wondering how larger faster planes stay on glide slope? If there is a 15 knot headwind would you hold 105 Ground Speed?
What a great video... congrats.. Here is another tip... Fly to Every Runway like there was an ILS approach servicing the runway (e.g. descent rate GS(kt) X 5 in ft/min). Most videos I see on UA-cam the pilots approach "too low" and plan to touchdown on the numbers (is anyone paying cash for that?). So, they are on glide path, chop the power, increase their descent rate and the flatten the approach to touch down on the numbers. The sight picture is completely off and the flare provides little aero braking since the flight path is so shallow.
pedrosura thanks! Agree about touchdowns on the numbers, why? As long as the wheels are down in the first third or at the latest by the halfway point I’d rather see a pilot keep the altitude to potentially glide in the event of power failure
You are welcomed! Great channel. Really good topics and superb instruction. Well done..
Good technique ,,we were told to control air speed with pitch and altitude with power
stealhty1 What you were told is correct. An aircraft will climb or descend due to thrust. (In a standard atmosphere excess thrust will determine an aircraft’s absolute ceiling for a given weight.) Changing pitch will change AOA which will change airspeed and the thrust required. So no, this is not a good technique. This video is garbage.
@@jimziemer474 Garbage? The reason you pitch for the VSI on a Glide Slope is because the response is immediate, instantaneous. The airspeed indicator lags way to much. The signal is extremely narrow. If you try holding a glide slope by pitching for (or trimming for) and airspeed you will lose the needle I can almost guarantee it. The airspeed indicator lags waaaaay too much to make this effective. Not only are you responding to very old data, the response inputs take too long to manifest in change.
The Finer Points sorry friend, but I think you have that backwards! The VSI in a plane like this has a lag of ~5-9 seconds whereas the ASI responds almost instantly.
@@alexhackler8166 The vsi does lag but that is not what is being discussed, you need to know this on a deeper level to understand. The asi responds slowly to power changes, where a pitch change will have a much quicker effect on rate of descent.
Yes, the airspeed is an instantaneous measure where the vsi takes a moment to read accurately, but that's not what he's talking about.
@@taytayflyfly7291 Except that if you read the message that I responded to that is exactly what he is saying. In terms of trying to hold a glide slope the Vertical Speed Indicator is effectively useless beyond confirming with other instruments because you're looking at what has happened 10 seconds ago. It's fine to use it to get set up at an appropriate descent rate but in terms of holding that glide slope you need to look elsewhere. The Air Speed Indicator will tell you about any change in pitch almost immediately regardless of if that change in pitch is from a power change or just a control movement. Source - Also a Flight Instructor
Awesome
1 to 1.5 NM before final. It's 10' flaps, mixture rich and landing lights on. Are you using power to keep your airspeed at 90 kias with the flaps in. I can't clearly see if 10' flaps are in. Thank You.
Landings and just keeping control of speed... what helped me:
Pitch for speed.
Power for altitude.
This technique is good for IFR because you maintain your maneuvering speed to prevent stalls and sudden drops from turns on to stay on the ILS.
This is great but I tried landing a 747 in the simulator and the 165kt IAS approach at 18,000ft seems to be much less than the actual Ground Speed, and then when I do reach about 1000ft above ground, the GS has slowed to almost the same as the 165 IAS. How do I compensate for the constantly changing difference as I try to calculate the feet/mind descent rate?