In Defense of.."Never Say Die" by Black Sabbath.. Special Defenders, John, Steve and Darin.
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- For this episode I have some special guests joining me to go to the defense for Black Sabbath's final album with Ozzy (for the 70s) Never Say Die.
John's Band Incantation:
/ incantationofficial
Steve's Rock Fantasy Files:
/ rockfantasysteve
Darin's band Pale Divine:
/ serpentspath
Air Dance is a gem. One of my favourite Sabbath tracks. Shock Wave. My god this is a phenomenal album.
If I had my way, Air Dance would have been my wedding song
Black Sabbath is kinda like sex and/or 🍕 pizza. Even when it is bad it's still pretty good
Final album with originals. Never Say Die, Johnny Blade, Hard Road, Junior's Eyes and The solo in Shockwave is off the hook!
It’s a shame, 13 almost had all of them, but Bill Ward felt he couldn’t keep up at that point. At least they were able to do one more with Ozzy at the end.
I really like Never Say Die. Love the Jazz influences.
Great Jazzy rock album!
Juniors eyes....killer. One of my fave Sabbath songs......Hail...
I love that song also.
@@LairoftheAlchemist it’s great. Such a killer chorus....I saw you interview Pete Pardo. So now I’m here as well. I’ve been on Pete’s show a couple of times and it’s great to see these great metal conversations.....Hail....
@@SteveHughesOfficial Thanks!
My first encounter with Sabbath was Technical Ecstasy, which to this day remains my favourite of theirs. My second encounter was a compilation with fairly expected cuts from the first 3 (thoug not Paranoid:)), I then got Never Say Die.
Being a huge fan of prog and of heavy rock with keyboards - e.g. Heep and Purple - I coudn’t not love Never Say Die, especially things like Air Dance which yes, isn’t expected, but for me that’s what makes it so damn good - it probably helps that I love that style of music anyway.
Second favourite Sabs has to be Mob Rules but Never Say Die is an equal third with Sabotage and Heaven and Hell. For the Ozzy era, as John does, I generally only really listen to Sabbath Bloody Sabbath through Never Say Die, I rarely go back to the first four.
I think a lot of the dislike for Never Say Die and Technical Ecstasy comes from people hanging on Ozzy’s opinions about them. Both this and Technical Ecstasy though have some of Tony Iommi’s greatest playing.
I saw Ozzy on the Blizzard Tour and I Saw Sabbath on the Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules tours - I never had any desire, though, to see Ozzy after seeing him at Castle Donington in 1984 (ironically going on before Van Halen), but absolutely had to go see Heaven and Hell in 2007, and so glad I did, they were fantastic.
I 100% agree. Almost exactly my favorite Sabbath albums.
"Air Dance" is a good mellow prog-rock track...something out the ordinary you NEVER hear from Sabbath.
Yes as in my comments people believe what they’re told is good or bad. That’s what keeps critics in business. I listen to TE in recent years more than and other sabbath. And it was one of the 1st albums of theirs I heard back in 76/77. That also may be why I’m draw to it. Also like NSD tremendously and wards vocal on swinging the chain is off the chain!
I hear you ... The band were excited about Technical Ecstasy when it was released ( including Ozzy ) . Everyone I knew similarly loved it back in the day . The press always resented Sabbath's success and were always keen to promote anything negative about them , such as divisive comments when their own relationships were strained . Plus , Ozzy like a lot of lead singers is a people pleaser and will say anything to be popular in the moment probably not realising the full ramifications of how his ramblings will be picked up on and perceived by others . Some of his best recorded singing is on the late 70's albums ( whether he realises it or not ) . Bill and Tony have always had the bottle to defend those albums whereas Geezer chickens out and resorts to cliches about drink and drugs etc ( who wasn't making albums in that era under the same conditions ? )
Love Never Say Die Air dance all day long
I kinda like the album.
I definitely love, that there are people who feel passionate about it.
I feel the same way, I think it’s cool that there’s people out there that really dig this album.
@@LairoftheAlchemist I do
I love some jazz in my Sabbath.
Pete Pardo and Chris Alo left the chat
I agree. I love it! It's a shocking combination, at first, but it's not really *that* strange, to me, considering that Bill Ward is a highly jazz-influenced drummer.
I think it’s pretty cool also.
Also, Over To You is such a killer track and one of my favorite Sabbath tracks.
Me too - Air Dance is awesome. Much more interesting than overly doomy stuff like Electric Funeral etc.
Remember that scene in This is Spinal Tap after Nigel Tufnell left and they're playing "Jazz Odessey"? I think this album inspired that scene.
Gotta' say I agree with everything John from Incantation is saying....from his passion for Never Say Die to the ignorance of the average fan who knows really nothing about the band to the frustrating live set they play. Saw them in 99 with the original lineup and was dissapointed by the typical song selection. Another thing that really annoys me is those people who only swear by Ozzy,like he was the driving force in the band. Are you kidding me??!!! He didn't even write the lyrics,Geezer did. No,no,Tony Iommi IS Black Sabbath.
This was a cool episode with an excellent group of Sabbath Heads.
Never say die was and is a great album. Love it.
Its the only Sabbath album I want in the house. Its all about title and cover. Its a don't F with me cover.
Nice!
I like the album quite a lot. Especially the title track and the song "Hard Road". I really can't understand why this album is always badly talked about. That's exactly the same thing as Judas Priest's "Turbo" or Van Halen's "Diver Down". Bands evolve over time. And that is good and important.
I agree.
Except that Turbo and Diver Down are terrible records. Both are the band's worst album.
@@turefromfinland3264 Both bands had worse albums when they switched singers. i’d prefer turbo and diver down than OU812 and Jugulator.
@@jcsalty457 I agree.
I think the thing a lot of people have against Diver Down is, it's mostly cover tunes. That's just my thought..
I don't mind the album at all. And I've probably listened to it more the last two years than the 38 years before. There's an "airiness" and "tin-like" sound to the production...but I don't it mind it as much as I used to. And I think Air Dance is the album's second best song next to the title track. Shit...you know what? I'm gonna bust it out and play it right now!
I agree with you about the “tin sound“... no bus this record out and give it another spin :-)
Anyone Notice Ozzy's' Vocal Style starts to sound Like his Next few Solo Albums..( in the Production)
Love this Album. Johnny Blade is A Real Hidden Gem in the Catalog.. Theirs Piano fills ( Air Dance ), saxophone , acoustic Guitar, I don't Know Why anyone wouldn't Love This Album.. It shows Maturity. Its Better Than ANYTHING Ozzy Solo !!!
Great call 👍
9 min mark. What sounds sad bro....about the only sad song is Junior's Eyes about Ozzy's father..
Air Dance is awesome!
Iommi has really got his inner Necromandus love on full display
What the f.... There is no need to defend that album. That's great record. After "Technical Ecstacy" it's the best Sabbath album (with Ozzy).
I think Never Say Die is a better album than Technical Ecstasy. By the way my favourite Black Sabbath album & also my favourite Metal album is Vol 4.
Same here.I thought it was a much better effort than Technical Ecstasy. Was it better than Sabotage,or Heaven & Hell ? No.But still a solid album with great riffs & hooks & melodys,all the more amazing given the contentious circumstances it was made under
Absolutely their most underrated album.
@@mtxmind Definitely underatrd album. My favourite Black Sabbath song is Junior’s Eyes.
Good opener, Johnny Blade rocks, I like the dynamics in Juniors Eyes. The rhythm in A Hard road does it for me, but perhaps a little long? Shock Wave is a little meh. Air Dance is great, feels like a little nice surprise. Over To You stars great but grows really boring. Breakout and Swinging the Chain for me is fun to listen to, I like to be surprised, and i like Bill Wards voice. Respect.
Never Say Die is not a bad album. My copy sounds very bright, but i can play it pretty loud. I like this album more than Technical Ecstasy.
Air Dance- you know, when my daughter was maybe 5 or 6 yo. and learning to ice skate, and that song popped into my head while watching, man it brought a happy tear to my eye. Now every time I hear the song that moment comes back and I tear up again... memories :)
I think Johnny Blaze is one of the best Sabbath song.
Johnny needed cash, to get his blaze on, that's why he needed a BLADE.
@@vinylsolution2522 is it about Heroin?
I agree with you. My favourite Black Sabbath song is Junior’s Eyes.
@@jmagowan12 No it’s about young men or teenagers getting involved in gangs.
Johnny Blaze LOL
The album is great. Any hate on the first eight albums should be reserved to 'Technical Ecstasy', which is a total going-through-the-motions album.
I like technical ecstasy a lot and my podcast friend Darin loves that album.
Great topic! Never Say Die is bashed repeatedly on other metal channels and I never completely understood why. I think it's actually better than Technical Ecstasy for one, and I appreciate the experimentation on tracks like Air Dance, Breakout and Johnny Blade. Although whereas the keys in Johnny Blade give it a cool futuristic vibe, I've never quite been into the piano parts in Air Dance and Over to You. It's just a little much. I would prefer a version of those songs without the long classical-like runs on the piano.
Good points also about the record being somewhat of a throwback to their late 60's style, maybe the closest sounding record to the Self Titled. Swinging the Chain...straight up heavy blues rock, the swingy jazzy grooves featured in Air Dance and Junior's Eyes. Very retro for them at this point. I also feel like at this point Ozzy's vocals are very much what they would continue to be on his early solo records which is of note. You hear a lot of the same melodies that he will use later on Blizzard and Diary.
The piano parts on Over to you and Air Dance are the best parts
There were no , NO bad Black Sabbath albums with Ozzy on vocals. Not a single one. All of them are masterpieces every single one.
I agree with you but there’s people who don’t care for NSD, including the band itself.
One of my favorite Black Sabbath records! Love the cover for sure. Hard Road is in my top 10 BS tunes. Ozzy actually sings his ass off in this tune. Ozzy says he didn't like the direction musically they were heading, but if you listen to Never Say Die (and you can add in Technical Ecstasy) and than Blizzard and Diary and don't hear the similarities you need new ears. Cheers 👍🤘🎸🍻
This is a great conversation, thank you guys.
Never Say Die is my least favorite of the original 8 (maybe I like it better than the first album, where the jam element was prevalent in parts), but it’s STILL a strong album. I love most of the experimentation. I think “Air Dance” is beautiful and love the jazzy stuff towards the end of it.
“Hard Road” is poignant because of what they’re singing, - a hard road when it’s towards the end - and the band, for the only time, is vocally harmonizing.
The title track is a flat out classic. Love Geezer’s bass and the sense of loss in “Junior’s Eyes.” Really, I love the first six songs.
The final third is where it gets iffy for me. “Over to You,” I can hear the tiredness a little too much. “Breakout” sounds like it should be the intro to Saturday Night Live. I can hear the announcer talking about this eeek’s guests as it plays. I like most Sabbath experiments, just not this one. “Swinging the Chain” I am finally coming around to - but it’s taken me years. Maybe the other two songs will hit me one day but the rest of it is fantastic. As far as the other maligned Ozzy Sabbath album, TECHNICAL ECSTASY s my most listened to album these days of the 8, absolutely love it.
I really enjoyed the knowledge and passion about Sabbath here. All four of you guys rock.
Awesome show you collared in some great guests!
As for the album, Only two horrible songs on this IMO. I’m not saying which ones. Love the rest of it. I love Iommi’s tone on this album too. Also love his tone live around this time. Got the The Hammersmith show on 📀 📼 💿 plus on my home 💻. Definitely a proud Sabbath nerd! A solid 8.5/10 album.
Heavy On!!
Thanks. Let me guess...is “Breakout” one of your least favs?
@@LairoftheAlchemist that one and over to you. 🍺. I skip after air dance to swinging the chain always.
I love the whole album, in it's entirety!!!! Black Sabbath fan forever!!! "Never Say Die" indeed!!! Thanks for the video!!! As a Black Sabbath fan myself, I would give the album personally
10 out of 10 stars!!!!, I don't have a problem with it at all!!!
@@sabbathfan1969 You’re quite the fan to give this album a 10. I’ll have to just sit down and try to get through Breakout and Over to you in defense of that song though it does have some cool Iommi licks. It’s where his inner Necromandus love truly shines.
Never Say Die - a terrific album because it IS SO DIFFRENT
A Hard Road is amazing !
Cool song but not my favorite on the record.
Half the songs on this album are awesome, the other half are really interesting and mold-breaking. Another takeaway is that Bill Ward should have had at least one or two vocals on every record. His voice is great!
Bill does sound great on “swinging the chain“
@@LairoftheAlchemist I've been checking out his solo albums lately and they are pretty damn good as well
You’re an awesome 😎 UA-cam channel.
I *love* this album! It's actually one of my favorites by the band. I'll be honest though: I heard so many *terrible* things about it that for over three decades, I avoided it and never even listened to it once. By the time that I did finally buy it and listen to it in full, I could not believe what I was hearing! At least to me, it's a great, experimental, hard rock/heavy metal album! It's not typical, doomy Sabbath, but I love it!
Same here! Been listening to Sabbath since the 80s but because of all the bad things I had read about Never Say Die AND Technical Ecstasy back then I heard both albums for the very first time only a couple of months ago because of YT videos like this and couldn’t believe how much I liked both.
I’m sure you’re not alone with this experience, it always frustrated me that this album gets put down by everybody including the band and it scares people away from it. I was lucky when I heard it for the first time I had no idea what I was getting into so I was able to make up my own mind about it.
Hard to really say but I believe it is my most favorite Ozzy Black Sabbath albums. Great show hope the four of you guys do a part two and so on
I like this album a lot. I think because it's tracks aren't played to death. plus, I like the progressive/jazz edge of it. I'd choose it over Technical Ecstasy.
It is definitely an underrated album! This album would be for them what Ram it Down might be for Judas Priest. Air Dance is like the Blood Red Skies of that album. You can definitely hear the overall sorrow and despair of where they were at that particular time.
Good observation
On Swinging the Chain, it sounds like Bill knows this is the end. The lyrics, the feel... I love all the songs on that album though.
I agree
Excellent stream I know I’m not the hugest fan of Never Say Die but now I might revisit this release. There were a lot of great points made on this album and I definitely do agree this release sounds like the true final album by the Ozzy era Black Sabbath unlike 13.
People who don't know Dehumanizer exists need to not exist,sorrynotsorry
Never Say Die was always one of my favorites! I am one of the few that bought it back in the day.
Johnny Blade is one of the heaviest song ever recorded foe me I don't know about anybody else .
Yeah it's a great album, this was a great video in defence of it, loved each point that was made. The back-to-back of Johnny Blade and Junior's Eyes works really well I find especially after the bright up-tempo opener of NSD. The album loses me though on the last few tracks, feel like it's more of a front-loaded record.
"Swinging The Chain" is one of my favorite Sabbath songs, there was a few good tunes on Never Say Die
more than a few!
Good show! I've always liked Never Say Die. Not my favorite but not a bad album at all.🤘🏻🤘🏻
Never Say Die has a special purpose in my LIFE. Had the 8 track. Album cassette AND now CD... I appreciated this album when I was 12 years old in 1980....Remember hearing Johnny Blade AND saying. Damn. This is good....Swinging the Chain. I can't do it. Other than that. 8/10....👍
Way better than technical ecstasy!
The love of Sabbath prevails. Never Say Die isn't my least favorite Ozzy Era Sabbath. Technical Ecstasy gets that honor. Terrible album. Never Say Die has a few moments like Johnny Blade and the title track. It's not horrible. It's just tumultuous and unfocused and slathered in cocaine and Toronto freeze. Trying to rewrite the Dave Walker stuff didn't help. Ozzy a complete disaster after the death of his father. This album clearly exemplifies the stuttering death of the original Sabbath. Junior's Eyes was actually performed with Dave Walker before Ozzy returned and the lyrics were changed to cover the death of Ozzy's father. A dark-days album for sure but leagues above Technical Ecstasy.
I’m surprised at how many people don’t like technical ecstasy, I think that will have to be our next “in defense of“ album. You make a lot of great points about never say die.
Johnny blade kicks ass
Great, interesting show with great comments!
Most of the songs on NSD really do kick ass. Air Dance, nah, but it is a jazzy departure. I love Over to You because, even though it’s a subdued song, that guitar sounds like a fucking buzz saw. Every Sabbath album has its own individual sound, particularly Tony’s guitar tone, including NSD. When this album was released, I was working in a record store, so of course we got Billboard magazine. There was a near full-page ad for NSD with a caption that said “Never in the history of rock, have so many owed so much to so few”. I can’t think of a more perfect sentiment for Sabbath.
I knew from the first time I heard them in 1970 that they would stand the test of time. They’ll always be the best hard rock / metal group in all respects.
BTW, I was lucky enough to be seated on the front row, right in front of Iommi and Ozzy on the Sabotage tour show in Dallas. Most incredible power I’ve ever heard!!! Iommi is, was, and always will be the best creator of killer riffs and guitar sound.
I can’t remember how many times I’ve seen Sabbath, but I swear on the Bible that fucking Canned Halen DID NOT kick Sabbath’s collective asses on the NSD tour. No disrespect to Eddie, but it was never possible.
Thanks very much for this show, guys!
Johnny Blade cool 🆒️👍
Never had a problem with this album plus I saw the tour date at Nassau coliseum .don’t believe people who said Van Halen blew them away Van Halen couldn’t handle there liquor .plus who can top a band who opens with hole in the sky and symptoms of the universe. They only played never say die from the album. Plus no merch from that album I believe from a great album cover
I always believed that the storyline of VH blowing them away nightly was somewhat exaggerated. I'm sure VH had their nights, but I was at the big summer '78 Anaheim Stadium show in So Cal. VH did the parachute arrival gag and were very high energy, but when Sabbath came on the seas parted and the entire place was shaking, everyone stomping and singing along to every song.
Swinging the chain is a really cool song
Sung by Bill Ward😀👍👍
Great episode. Took me about 25 years to fall in love with this album.
Thanks
Alo is deaf!
Good for you guys!
I laughed when I saw this pop up.
Love Never Say Die, wish Bill would have sung more. His voice is so compelling.
It's great, because it is different, love the saxaphone.
The Van Halen factor on the ensuing final tour, can't be overlooked. I believe Ozzy, and Dio lost their jobs dirrectly because of VH 1.
Iommi saw VH unleashed on the world firsthand every night.
Ozzy was just not cutting it.
Blackmore suddenly wanted a more commercial sound. Why? VH.
Meanwhile Lynch, and Rhodes are back in L.A. desperately practicing, trying to catch up to the new VH guitar world Order.
February 27 1978, VH 1 released, and the Hard Rock/Metal world was never the same.
VH 1 went gold in may, then Platinum in October 78, the writing was on the wall, for everyone to read.
Never Say Die, which I love, went gold in 1997!!!
Scorpion's release Lovedrive Feb 79, with it tightened up, catchy songwriting.
Even Gary Moore gives up his solo blues fusion stuff, and commits finaly to Lizzy, then later creates G force in 80.
Priest also tightens up its song writing for British Steel.
I own NSD on cd...and I just happen to enjoy it. The same way I do with Priest's "Point Of Entry" and "Turbo."
me and my friends got into sabbath during our late teens in the early nineties. we just started buying the cs's that were in the shop at the moment and looked cool. Pretty random pre-internet days. And then lend them out and put in on cassette tape. I think Never say die was the 2nd ot 3rd cd we heard. We all loved it. Production was a bit iffy but the songs were great. Juniors eyes was an instant classic and i love air dance. i must admit i love ozzy era sabbath and like the dio albums but still have to hear the other stuff. those first 8 albums are just special. anything could happen on them. only technical ecstacy is below par for me.
Have always liked this album... but have heard several that didn't. They are the ones who say anything after Vol.4 wasn't Sabbath. so...pfft
I avoided this album for a long time after reading an Ozzy interview where he shit all over it. When I finally did listen to it all I was totally blown away.
Ozzy hated it due to the bad memories of a Cold Winter In Toronto. The Band had the police called on them accidentally by a maid at the place they were staying at flushing all their drugs down the toilet in the process.
I always loved Never Say Die. The opening guitar riff in “Johnny Blade” is the best James Bond guitar riff that never happened.
Great show, John. Really like the discussion. In fact, I've gone and revisited this album which I haven't done in quite some time. I never gave it much of a serious listen, but I hear what you guys are saying. Personally, I like "A Hard Road" but I understand why many don't like it since it is a bit sing-alongly and out of Black Sabbath's wheelhouse. I have even listened to 4 of your "Into The Void" podcasts. Really thoughtful discussion with Darin, who is also a very intelligent music fan with insightful comments. A pleasure to listen to for a die-hard music fan like myself. Keep up the great work!!
Thanks so much. I had a blast talking about the album.
I have loved this album since I first heard it in 1980 when I was starting to get into Black Sabbath in 8th grade. I never liked the song "Never Say Die" and I think it's the worst song on the album. Out of context with their history, this is a great stand alone album. "Johnny Blade" is such an amazing song, and "Shock Wave" is incredible. Thanks for defending one of my favorite albums of all time. I don't understand why Technical Ecstasy is regarded higher than Never Say Die. I've listened to Technical Ecstasy several times, and I just don't get it. Not one interesting song on that one.
As shown on 57:09 you guys definitely got the record that’s awesome 😎.
Don Airey's keyboard playing on this albumn is pheonomenal. I'm at the 32 min mark, surprised you guys have not mentoned this yet. Anyway good review, thumbs up
My thoughts on it.I really like this LP.First of all the title of it and then the irony in the cover with some pilots going to war and the images of dead pilots in the clouds.And then the feeling in almost all songs not about the end of a band but an end of an era.Punk is coming things changing.Lyrics about mad politicians and maybe the kids who can save the world.About songs and rock stars that are history now.Dont want to say more some love it some hate it but for me it s brilliant and i love the cover one of my fav in rock music historu
Johnny blade is nasty and gritty. That mid riff breakdown is arguably iommis funnest, heaviest riffs
I think all n all, especially considerin the time it was created, it's a good album. But when most of the album's preceding it are great albums, it's not gonna shine as much.
That’s a good point, the albums before it are so amazing that it is a hard act to follow
@@LairoftheAlchemist It's like Iron Fist by Mötorhead is very good album, but not great like all the album's that came before it.
I never listened to this album until this year. It is not NEARLY as bad as many people say. It’s less metallic and doomy but still a great album. The whole band under the influence of drugs and booze certainly didn’t help the album at all.
I listened to the first Sabbath album as my first experience and the rest as they were released and I thought Tech Ecstasy was too much synthesizer and was not a good as the earlier stuff but Never Say Die was an instant like ,it was never an album I put away and forgot about..It was the one I seemed to think about the most as time went by even though VOL 4 might be my fav and Sabotage but Tech Ecstasy grew on me very fast as a great album also along with N S DIE because those two got the least amount of respect but now for the last 20 years are the ones I go to the most for another listen ...
Cool
Can't wait to hear a panel discussion on Born Again! And don't forget the Cannibal Corpse cover!
Great album it's the prog rock version of Sabbath.
Always loved that album its entirely. It's one of the earliest things that got me into heavy/hardrock world (in 1979, I was 13 then), and I'm still that same road lol. Thanks for the video! 👍🏻
they were tired too much drugs and so they were close to the edge that's all....
i like this lp too but should have been much better due to their conditions at that time ...
but anyway "let the music do the talking " cheers from corsica ...;-)
it wasn't their best but I liked the titie track . Johnny Blade was a good song too. ozzy was on it's way out
Johnny Blade is great.
Holy shit, John McEntee from Incantation - too cool!! I guess I should give that album another listen.
Side one is ok ish
Side two is not ok at all
I do really like Juniors Eyes
I like the first 3 tunes a lot. After that it is hit or miss. I do appreciate the creativity, even if it doesn't pay off every time. I also agree with John McEntee's take on the sound of the band coming apart on Never Say Die.
Shockwave. Air Dance. Great songs... Ozzy's voice on Hard Road KEEPS THIS SONG moving. All of our opinions differ..👍
Whoa. Those are the 3 songs I mentioned and almost the same thing I said about A Hard Road, all before I even saw your comment!
I love Air Dance. Love it. The vocal melody in the verses is beautiful and spacy. And the jazzy Iommi solo and time signature shifts. Come on now. Shock Wave is blistering. And A Hard Road has this disconnected auto-pilot vibe I find strangely alluring.
My favourite Black Sabbath song is Junior’s Eyes.
Never Say Die is still better than Technical Ecstasy or 13
Very cool episode. John is such a LEGEND. I'm down with the NSD naysayers, I've tried, God knows I've tried. But a very enjoyable chat anyway.
Remember avoiding to buy this album for years and years after all the bad things I heard about it. Finally got around to buy it about 25 years ago when I found it for 5 bucks in a discount bin somewhere. I was preparing to hate it, but was surprised at how solid an album it was. It starts out with three killer songs (the title track, Johnny Blade and Junior’s Eyes) and I warmed up quickly enough with the other tracks, like Air Dance, with it’s jazzy overtones which I find interesting... and yes, I even like Swinging The Chain.
Sabbath has been my favorite band since I was 10-11 years old. I've only just gotten around to buying the last few albums of theirs I don't have. I haven't dived as much into certain albums as others since I've also developed broader tastes as I've aged. But I definitely can appreciate some songs off this album. I don't think it deserves the hate it gets from fans. I feel like it's one of those albums that is more so for the "hardcore fans" as opposed to the people who only know those 3-4 songs or only listen to the first 6 albums. I'll admit I haven't heavily listened to this album or Technical Ecstasy as much as I have The first 6, the Dio albums or Headless Cross, but I'll probably have to give it a fresh listen after watching this video. I'm getting into so many other bands these days that I seldom listen to a lot of Sabbath unless I'm really in the mood since I've heard a lot of it so much, but I'm at that phase with my Sabbath listening where I'm getting into the more obscure albums and not just the popular ones.
Also John, as someone who was a teenager in the mid 2000s when all the other metalheads my age were into Rob Zombie, Marilyn Manson, Slipknot and Korn I was such an oddball with my idea of musical variety being Solo Ozzy or Black Sabbath. Whenever I would hear another kid my age say "I love Black Sabbath!" and then they'd only know Paranoid, Iron Man and War Pigs (MAYBE 2-3 other songs) I'd always be so disappointed. By the time I got to High School I'd become a bit of an elitist when it came to Black Sabbath where any time I saw someone wearing a shirt with the band on it my first thought was: "Does this asshole know any members besides Ozzy?" "How many songs you know?". Sabbath is the ONE band (And Solo Ozzy) where I am a bit of a judgmental snob towards casual fans. I feel the same loathing towards people who claim to "LOVE!" Ozzy and only know 2-3 songs. I'm not as well versed in the 80s and 90s stuff as I want to be since I only got so much money to buy CDs and it's a total toss up with what band I'll buy CDs for so I haven't gotten AS into the Non-Ozzy, Non-Dio stuff as I need to be. Your rant about hating the casual fans who only know the popular songs or only care about the first 6 albums really spoke to me on a personal level as a 31 year old who was always an oddball among people my age for my favorite band being from the 70s while everyone else was into bands I thought were mediocre at best. Now a lot of friends my age have more respect for Sabbath and I'm like, you fuckers mocked me back when we were teenagers, I appreciated Sabbath from the beginning!
This was a really cool video! Made me look at the album from a much deeper perspective, I'll have to give it another listen tomorrow after work.
Great comment..thanks! You had good taste as a teenager. I agree with all your points.
@@LairoftheAlchemist Thanks to channels like this one and Sea of Tranquility I'm developing an even deeper appreciation for bands I like and finding a few new ones as well.
Enjoying this channel, keep it up man!
I started with Sabotage in my mid teens, which is my favorite, and then when the much anticipated Technical Ecstasy LP came out, we rocked that out frequently. I had not yet really got into the early albums yet, except for "the Hits", so was starting to get into Vol. 4 and Master of Reality, etc. before Never Say Die was released. Always felt NSD was very refreshing and Rocked out, especially "Shock Wave"(favorite), the Title track, and for a teenager, "Johnny Blade" smoked and kicked ass. Overall, I really like the album, and what you guys are saying is that it is the end of the Evolution of Sabbath with Ozzy, so it becomes a very historic LP as well for Sabbath. Thanks for giving it credits.. Technical Ecstasy deserves it also..
Fkn great album. Love it for so many reasons.
My favs from that record are Over to you and Air Dance
I’d rather listen to Never say Die over Paranoid.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!
I love Never Say Die and always have. Ozzy sounds amazing and many of the songs are very good.
Neve Say Die is such a Great addition to the Black Sabbath Legacy!!!!
Really great discussion for a very underrated album.
Damn shame. Never Say Die tour. I think the only 2 tunes that were played was the title song AND Dirty Women from TECHNICAL...😶
They were playing Shockwave on the Never Say Die tour it's on UA-cam live in Texas
In the UK charts 1970 Paranoid hit the charts . Black Sabbath never hit the UK singles charts again until 1978 Never Say Die
Good point
Great Discussion! good points... a real stand out record.
Sabbath is my all time favorite band. But it took me a while to come around to the greatness of Never Say Die. The funny thing is that my wife doesn't really know which music she is supposed to like or not, so she loves NSD from all the recent times I've played around the house and if you were to ask her what is the best BS album she would probably name their most 'hated' release.
There's a bunch of sabbath tunes that are criminally ignored live.
And also Ozzy solo. For years he plays a shitload of tunes from Blizzard and No More Tears, 2-3 Sabbath tunes(which is unnecessary, particularly once he was back and forth with sabbath) and 2-3 off the new release....:. So there's not even room for anything else. Godamm, gimme some tunes off of Ultimate Sin, No Rest, Bark(other than title), Ozzmosis. Even Diary gets shorted.
I totally agree with you. I wish more artists in general would play deeper cuts live.
My first time seeing this Channel, seeing Sabbath/Never say Die hooked me.
Judging by what you initially said, I'll be watching more of this channel, ansnchecking out your podcast(which I think I probably already have).
Thanks for the support.
Just discovered this channel and they video was posted a long time ago so I am pretty late to this conversation and my comment likely will go unnoticed but here goes:
Sabbath fan since I was a kid. Someone mentioned on here that B.Sabbath seemed to have been a band for the alienated and thats exactly right. As someone eho had challenges at home and also didn't fit in well outside of the stoner types, this was the perfect connection for me. Both the style of music and the lyrics struck a chord with me and gave me a musical kind of 'home' back in those days.
Never Say Die: I always enjoyed side 1, still listen to it fairly often. Sure it's a lot different from the early material but still great. Side 2 on the other hand...it has some bright spots--but overall for me it's a stinker. The end of an era and it wasn't a pretty end. I've tryed a few times over the years to "let it grow on me" but it just aint happenin'! But like I say, the material on side one seems really good to me. Liked it back then, still enjoy it a lot.👍🏻
The album cover: Outside of the first album this is by far the best (from the Ozzy years), total badass!
Thanks for your comment and I hope you enjoy the channel. And thanks for sharing your story. I agree side one is much stronger than side too and I also agree that the album cover is really good.
That version of Juniors eyes with Walker is pretty cool, but even further away from Sabbath than the NSD version.
I agree.
It reminds me of being a kid working a dishwashing job.
All good hair up there. I feel right at home.
Contrary to a lot of people here I love Over to you.It's my favourite track of the album and I love its message and its lyrics.Doing everything, sacrificing your life and still not enough.It's a good album overall though the band could have done better.Sounds tired.Air dance is also a jazz styled song, not for everyone. It took some listens to appreciate it.Jonnie Blade and Junio'rs eyes are also good songs. It is a good album but in comparison to all the previous ones and some of the ones that followed it sounds poor to most of us.
that's cool that you like that song! other people have said the same thing.