It's Hammerer Time!
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
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The flame canon was equipped with the Master Rune of Disguise, which grants it Stalk and Snipe. I think it could have fired in the back of Archeon's army without ever getting spotted.
But then it isn't a Hammerer doomstack; it's a lord, six heroes, and a flame cannon doing the bulk of the work while Hammerers just hold the line or play clean up.
@@saltedllama2759 doomstack doesnt have to be all one unit my dude
@@saltedllama2759 is not how doomstack works
@@saltedllama2759 ok so skaven gun team is not a doomstack? lol
@@saltedllama2759 L take
This is definitely one of the Hammerer stacks of all time
My favourite moment is when he said it's "hammerin' time!" And hammered all over those norscans.
(This is not a joke... It's literally what happened)
Don't forget about the legendary lord siege attacker. Since Thorgrim had it, they might have wanted to use the flame cannon.
Was going to say this but you beat me to it
Exactly what I thought
No, it has a master rune of disguise giving it stalk and snipe.
I think the cannon is for destroying towers
@@mongopoju If that were so he likely would have had grudge throwers.
The rune of Hearth & Home, the passive AOE one got massively buffed in WH3. It regenerates vigor for nearby units, basically giving them perfect stamina. Since melee units lose 25% melee defense and attach along with 30% armor, this def helps a lot with this hammerer stack.
Plenty of people still are not aware how heavy vigour debuffs are and how early it kicks in.
That change made it their best ability.
I don't think the flame canon is there as a siege attacker, as all legendary lords have the siege trait, no?
Only your faction leader
Even if that were true (which it's not), what's better; blowing a couple holes in the wall from a distance and then charging your army in or sending your lord - the character who's death does leadership damage to your entire army - in by himself to whack a big door for a while?
@@griffinmckenzie7203 He means so you can assault walls without waiting to build a ram/tower. Not so you can attack gates.
@@saltefan5925 and he is playing as Karaz-a-Karak, so Thorgrim IS a faction leader, and no need in siege attackers
@@griffinmckenzie7203 Thorgrim is a siege attacker as is every single legendary lord, it was added recently.
Also having siege attacker doesn't mean Thorgrim needs to personally bash down the gates
I like the new rating system and the Cannon may have been for added dps it looked like it had stalk and maybe snipe
Maybe against enemy ranged units
Siege?
@@buzzertjeman Thorgrim has siege attacker. So it would have been just to blow up towers then.
Hi legend, I have a suggestion
I think it is better to use the same method you used for rating the legendary lord. which is rating (using numbers) the practicality, strength and how easy to use, and then divide it by 3 to give us the final score.
Yeah, this was my thinking as well.
@NobunagaHiro, I had this thought as well. The only issue there is the problem of assigning numbers to something that is somewhat subjective and nuanced. I am sure @LegendofTotalWar considered this but decided to go with words to remain somewhat flexible in terms of his ranking.
honestly this word ratings kind of makes it not as easy to understand and makes it less interesting for me personally. i wish he'd consider your suggestion
Yes, 100 times yes
It requires more thinking and can be annoying.
Giants, Feral Manticores, now Hammerers. What's next, Stormvermins doomstack?
Maybe when they drastically buff them in the future in some alternative universe :D
We’ve seen a grail reliquary doom stack so I wouldn’t rule out anything
@@soundscapemusic8980 That was Okoii doomstack so... :D
I really like the new rating system, honestly getting tired of seeing hero stacks the entire time, one of my all time favorites was the white lions of chrace doom stack and that one turned a unit that nobody really used into a doomstack.
9:40 - The game does actually let you know when spells are on cooldown or ready to go on a unit's card for other spells! It's just less noticeable compared to Dwarfs, as the only difference is whether there's a glowing light for the spell or if it's disappeared. If there is a light, the spell that light corresponds to can be used!
Obviously not easy to use given that there can be 6 lights for 6 different spells, but it is there!
The current system is a 9 point keyword system. With 3 different categories and a rough value of "good" "bad" or "middling", with nuance provided by additional words. This is basically just a rating from 1/10 to 10/10 depending on how many "very goods" you can get, but you don't count the points in the end.
I like the new rating system, but I do wish that you'd use all the units submitted. If a unit does badly then that should affect the rating, but if it does well and adds to the effectiveness it should too, you shouldn't just discard units lol. It was clearly submitted like that on purpose with the flamecannons on stalk and snipe.
That flame cannon wasn't there for siege attacker, because Thorgrim himself has that now.
If you need the flame cannon to make this stack work, then it isn't a Hammerer doom stack.
@@saltedllama2759 If YoU nEeD a VaMpIrE sPeLlCaStEr ItS nOt A sKeLeToN dOoMsTaCk
@@saltedllama2759 The title says hammerer doomstack because he clearly didn't notice that the flame cannons had rune of disguise.
I need dont see the need of the Thanes, can someone explain it to me? I dont play dwarves very often.
-33% vigour loss reduction for hammerers? not sure if it stacks, but its probably that
Mainly for that ability (not sure if their vigor bonus stacks but that plus rune Smiths AoE vigor bonus and they stay at max allways, plus guardian) and to have some good fighters against small single entity
ah, thanks
Legend: "In all honesty, you won't meet those kinds of armies in IE"
Me, having to fight a keeper of secrets with soul grinders doomstack at turn 12 as Oxyotl: "ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT? ;-;"
I had a nice 19 Kharybdis + Dreadlord Army yesterday in my Woodelves campaign. That took quite a while....
I'm curious, how and when do you decide to use units in the doomstack test that aren't "part of the doomstack". I remember watching your recent manticore doomstack test and you didn't use anything other than the manticores themselves (minus one or two non-test heals). In this one you used the heroes and runes relatively actively. Etc..
I be annoyed when he just takes out part of the army when the whole point is for everything to work together towards the doomstack
it depends, monster stacks usually use stuff like healing but he doesnt let the heroes use offensive magic because he wants to see how much damage the monsters themselves can do and not to see that magic is indeed very good and you dont need a stack to use it.
i like the idea of the rating system, but for me it seems better if you do still give scores (/10 or even /5) on each part, and then maybe just add it all up in the end for a total score (say for this one, maybe it gets 7/10 across the board, so total score would be 21/30). that gives probably the best idea of the strength and utility of the doomstack
After 6 years its nice to finally see the hammerers represent!
Maybe a number rating for each category similar to you legendary Lord ranking system from WH2?
"I don't like it... therefore this army is trash" - LoTW, 2022
The shotgun is probably in there to allow the engineer to stick with the rest of the army. Being too far apart might be dangerous.
Furthermore legend, why are you not using the wardsave rune or the +40% physical resistance from the engineer? That's max physical resistance for like 20+ seconds
Because he never uses the army properly when doing rating
@@russell6075 Yeaaah, true. i don't disagree with the rating. He also didn't even look at the runes. This would probably have performed a decent chunk better if he'd factored in the rune auras. Oh well
@@svenbrede6151 He looked at it around 7:20 no?
...for one unit.
He did mention he doesn't like the Rune of Negation since they changed it to only target one unit in WH3.
Yeah, I was screaming at the screen to "use the damn ward save!" And it is an area effect, not single unit
Legend, try doing some Early Game doomstacks/stacks ratings.
By the time you get a late late game doomstack of tier 5 super monsters, or draged a legendary lord all over the map getting traits and the sword of Khaine, the campaigns almost over anyway.
Early game is where it's dynamic.
Agreed. By the time armies are made up of identical tier 5 units, the game just doesn't resemble Warhammer amy more - I'd like to see smaller scale stuff, lower tier units made good, as these are the ones that would really bulk armies out.
STOP! HAMMERER TIME
Too much pressure!
Something I think you missed is that the Flame Cannon has stalk and snipe
Isn't the siege ability from LL enough?
I think the unit cards for spell casters show which spells are available for all caster types unless I am mistaken?
They do
Would be better in Ironbrow's expedition.
For sure.
So disappointed this video wasn't titled "Stop! Hammer time"
The 3.5 roentgen of doomstacks
all doomstacks should be tested in minor siege battles because i had 3 fucking landbattles in my last 140 turn campaign..... and 1 of it was the start battle (kinda joking kinda not .... i want my landbattles back)
Will there be any first 10 turn guides for the new factions in WH3? I just started a Cathay campaign for the first time and I had a bit of a rough start with the Yin/Yang mechanic.
This army didn't perform spectacularly against a low experience garrison and has a glaring mobility issue. Its cool to have a Hammerer themed army but I think the creator should've considered the variety of enemies they would be fighting as Thorgrim.
Hi, i agree 100%. In the campaigns this army performed ok, not great not terrible. I mostly made it for the memes/for a thematic army.
To make it better i would change some aspects and unit (even though i think dwarfs only have 1 real doomstack and it is a thane doomstack). In general i spent 30 turn trying to find some real enemy forces but we all know how the ai is in wh3.
@@sinuosalice-1434 Is it as bad as it looks like if you go fight the Druchi?
@@finn-3976 did not fight dark elf but i did attack woodelf (an army plus a garrison) , i mainly withdraw most hammers and won with the heros plus flame cannon.
The flame cannon not being used...its like the main damage dealer....it has snipe....legend....come..on..bro...
It's not the size of the hammerer but how you use it
I ike this kind of video, not too long , a little bit analytic . I think another parameter would be the impact of the dommstack on the campain. if it cripple your campaign because its too expansive is it really a good doomstack ? but then again you can said its in the "practicable category "
I think that's part of what the practical category means. How easy it is to make, and how much it costs
This doesn't seem to be much of a doom stack as barely half the army is hammer's while the rest is heroes. They might be tough, but I think it needs to perform great without the heroes helping that much.
it's clobbering time !
You can easily make your new system into a 10 point system.
Practicality: Astoundingly impractical (0 points), Impractical (1), usable (2), easily made (3)
Power: Weak (0), Not very strong (1), ok (2), strong (3)
Ease of use: Very hard (0), hard (1), meh (2), easy (3)
And a final point of 'Do I like it or not'.
I'm gonna hazard a guess it's designed to blob so the master rune of grugni is giving all 20% missile resistance and one of the heroes might have gate keepers for more missle and spell resistance on top of rune of hearth and home giving all perfect vig meanwhile the master rune of disguise flame cannon is wiping swathes out from safety....
On top of a Master rune of spite and the rune explosions it should kill everything soon after contact.
Also it may be just a doomtack not a hammerer only doomstack... as in use the whole army....
whelp time to start another dwarf campaign
You don’t need a siege attacker, all legendary lords come with siege attacker now 🎉
Dude nailed the idea of this army
New rating system is a big improvement imo! The practicality part is very important. Getting 15 or 18 of a hero for any faction is far end game and by then you already won. Sadly most campaigns feel done by turn 50 in warhammer 3 imo cause nothing really challenges you… so getting 15 or 19 fully decked out hero’s seems pointless. One day CA will give AI the cheats they need to maybe stand a chance lol.
Keep being a legend legend!
Not convinced about the “rating”. Sure the factors on which it is based are logical, but it’s not really a rating, it’s an opinion based on 3 basic requirements.
Hard to simply and easily compare each stacks between one another, or with a basic threshold to reach a certain quality, etc.
Not really a rating.
And I think it will just make debating or referring to them more difficult overall, plus the confusion of a previous system everyone gets used to… meh, not really convinced tbh.
But it doesn’t really matter.
I would have seen something like improving the previous rating to be a better idea.
Like, if there are plenty of 10/10, just add a letter to specify what kind or what class.
10A to 10E for quality amongst all the top ones.
Maybe 10M if, like for Azazel made with infinite campaign movement range mod, it’s obtained mostly by the use of the mod, undoable otherwise so deserves a specific classification (or calling it 10X instead of 10M/10 ie), maybe a 10Y (or 8Y/10 if it deserves a 8/10 or any other rating) for a very experimental/eccentric doom stack, etc…
Note: Y for “prototype” like designation in USAF, but it’s just an example. Any coding/ref can do the job ofc.
Basically adding a subdivision with the letter to precise the rating and be able to compare them more accurately.
But just “texto opinion” based on 3 factors, although fully coherent, that’s not really a rating imo.
And it’s probably less efficient than what it was.
But hey, doesn’t really matter anyway.
We all do our own judgement on what we see on the video, that’s the most important thing after all.
How old is this save file? All Legendary Lords have siege attacker by default now. If that is the only reason the flame cannon was in the army then it was just a total waste of a unit slot.
The army qas made before 2.1 and even after i kept the flame cannon with stalk and snipe just because. An organ gun or great cannon would have been better to kinda counter ranged units, but i made this army just for fun
let each category give 3,3333 points max, so you can still give a 1/10 score, with the new ranking system
You could give practicality 2 points and then 4 points for the other two categories, so you still get the overall strongest ones closer to the top.
@@horrocko im a consecutive 3s man for life, i will die on that hill! but for real though, good idea, he should probably play aroud a bit with the numbers, get the weigthing down
3.6/5
Not great not terrible
I think you undervalue rune of oath and steel. Each point of armor approaching 200 has more and more value the same way each point of resistance does approaching 90 and the AP damage of non-great weapon units isn't strong enough to undo resisting the entire rest of their attack.
Armor piercing.
@@TeaserTravlein Read what he wrote again.
@@TeaserTravlein Yeah and non-great weapon unit doing, at most, 14 AP damage per landed swing into a model with 60 MD and 100 hp is still a massive difference in effective HP than if they were letting even 1 non AP damage through.
@@TeaserTravlein a lot of armour piecing units only have at most 50% of their dmg AP
I dig the new rating system personally.
In light of the new system, would you consider revisiting Exalted Hero doomstacks? Specifically, I think the two you've already reviewed were both TERRIBLE on the new system because... 19 exalted heroes isn't practical. I have an Archaon campaign where my two strongest armies BY FAR are 1x daemon lord, 6x exalted nurgle heroes, and 2 undivided caster heroes. And they are JUST as unstoppable as the 19x nurgle heroes, but is a doomstack you can feasibly have rolling by like... turn 20. But that that campaign is already THOROUGHLY beaten, so I'd have to spend an hour or two trying to find a good fight for the stack for you to showcase with.
Gimme a thumbs up if you're interested, otherwise I won't waste your time with the submission. Thanks for what you do Legend!
New Rating system is better
awe dang i wanted to see his other armies to compare how he got that far in 120 turns 😂 guess ill try archer stacks
Hi, i played the campains till turn 90 and than just skipped 30 turn trying to find some strong armies to test against, imo dwarf can expand pretty rapidly with: just swapping master runes of spite where you need and utilize the new rune passive from the rune smith that gives vigor reduction (never gets tired) plus some miners to blob and you can take on 90% of the armies up to turn 60 or so (ai builds just infantry in wh3 early game), very cheesy but i like it hehehe
5/10 doomstack
Practicality : medium (2.5/5)
Strengh : medium (2.5/5)
Ease of use : medium (2.5/5)
Maybe a mark for the effort put into the doomstack ? (siege attacker, usefull heroes, damaged units etc..)
Any army lead by a legendary lord has siege attacker by default. The flame cannon was totally unnecessary and a complete waste.
@@tym6217 Hm I know, I don't know what it has to do with my comment, and artillery destroys walls and towers which can be usefull =)
@@shiizzux5438 it was on refference to you listing siege attacker as one of your considerations for the effort for the army
@@tym6217 thats how legend thought of it its actually really nice against factions with medium range missiles but no artillery to make them have to walk towards you
Hey Legend, what about doing a rating system similar to how you rated Legendary Lords in WH2? Where there were the three categories, and you assigned a number based on how they rated in those three categories. Just a thought.
The new rating system is great. I know exactly how good an army is based on how much cheese there is. It allows me to budget my groceries to see how much cheese I need to buy and sometimes I need some quality cheese and quantity.
Trying to put the rating into numbers…
Practicability: 7/10
Strength: 7/10
Usability: 7/10
________________
21/30
Mr. LegEnd could you please redo the video about dmg types and resists so its actual for game 3 or at least make some commentary about what changed, please? From your vids/streams i understood that spell/magic dmg is spit now, magic is now rezisted only by ward save, not by spell rezist which used to be magic rezist. Also you said that dmg can be completely blocked if you have 200 armor, which means they removed 90% cap, making armor stronger? Having chance to completely block dmg if armor is above 100? I would appreciate if you could make video about curent system or at least comment on what exactly changed and how.
If you compare this doomstack to what a "regular" endgame dwarf army looks like, it's actually really not that good even though I love it thematically (I collect dwarfs in tabletop so I'm really a sucker for dwarfs and I'd want it to work). Frontline of Ironbreakers and some artillery and missiles with some heroes and maybe slayers on the flanks will do better on average against any type of army I guess. A hammerer doomstack will work against Chaos, Vampires and maybe Lizardmen but against Wood Elves, Skaven with weapon teams or any other missile heavy enemy, they will get wrecked pretty badly. A "standard" dwarfen army can tackle any of those and if such a normal army composition does better, this unfortunately really isn't a doomstack in my opinion. Maybe this would be another good category of rating? How specific (bad) or universal (good) a doomstack is?
this stack is fine versus slow melee based armies but TERRIBLE against any skirmish based armies - especially WE or Skaven. Doomstacks should be able to take on it's worst match up and do ok, but dominate it's best match up - this stack barely managed against a very favourable situation. Granted Legend played into it's weakness to see what it had, and the result would have been much better camping the reinforcements. But I don't think it's a good stack. Dwarfs don't doomstack effectively at all compared to other races
For carrot ankles!
This looked like a really bad doomstack. It went against full melee army with almost no AP and still didn´t look impressive. I am sure a normal dwarf army (IB, guns, artillery) would have an easier time winning this while also not being completely useless against all elves, Cathay, Empire and Coast like this doomstack.
I think you should go back to the number system. Just be strict and consistent with your rating.
Food for thought:
What you can do is double layer the rating system for 10/10s. If it hits a 10/10 rating then it goes through a other 0-10 process of rating, but this time only being rated against other 10/10 stacks.
They hammered the point meele infantry doomstacks are now viable
Can see why you have new rating system. Think rating all the categories out of 10 would have been better though to give an overall score, like your lord comparison videos
Sisters of avalorn would just burn through these units. No shield, no missile resist. And even with this amount of physical resist, the damage output of shades and darkshards will still quickly burn through the hammerers.
The Press Ballon is in the hanger.. go check out the new Dawi Super Weapon.. "The Thunder Barge Mod?" MC Legend is Fair on how you use a good cheese testing.
MC Hammer would be proud! Can’t touch this!
I'm pretty sure that feature of the runesmith unit card is the same for every other spellcaster
9:40 - The game does actually let you know when spells are on cooldown or ready to go on a unit's card for other spells! It's just less noticeable compared to Dwarfs, as the only difference is whether there's a glowing light for the spell or if it's disappeared. If there is a light, the spell that light corresponds to can be used!
Obviously not easy to use given that there can be 6 lights for 6 different spells, but it is there!
Don't all Legendary Lords now have Siege attacker?
Cuz if so, then the Flame Cannon is useless.
you should create a video or reel of just the new rating system. a big announcement like that especially in terms of shift of content shouldn’t just be in “just another video”. but that’s just my opinion i’m not a youtuber :)
have to say it: if i would have a "doomstack" that jsut win any autoresolve it no to just a few causalitys it´s would be such a big time saver. don´t get me wrong i have very much fun fight manually but at some point it just get boring fighting
The new rating system is fine... kind of. You still need to give a number value for each of three score and the have an average value. This will give 9.5 or whatever and mean its easier to differentiate between the different doom stacks. Which basically the point of the new system... as far I can see
I just want to say, I endorse the words score, as long as you append a totally arbitrary and indecipherable score after it. I will accept rat speak, memes, and indecipherable pictographs
really appreciate the "practicality" rating
What its the point of an hammerer doomstack when the army had like 6 heroes???
And the heroes did lots of the actual fighting.Did you test the hammerers in combat or the rune of speed?
@LegendofTotalwar Keep in mind all LL have siege attacker now so you don't need an artillery piece anymore.
I would say the new rating system is better, though you can still give a number rating on each of the three factors then sum them. Like you did with the LL ratings.
He should have parked the army on the side to let the reinforcment join all together. It is supposed to be a DOOMSTACK.
wouldnt make any difference against melee army with melee army because theyre just limited to how many models can engage at the same time he didnt double or tripleteam middle anyways because he played super wide early on and then let his flanks that were obviously get overhelmed take lopsided damage where entire middle with heroes afkd if anything itd have performed better if he didnt stand in the middle of field getting charged from all angles into flanks
Better than it was in Warhammer 2 for sure.
With then engineer and the rune, I think the FC was part of the army proper, but I could def be wrong
If i dont mistake torek have a spécial buff i cant give at is army on my campaigne i have give him the rune of frensy and he give it at all the army
How does those stunties wield such big hammers?
they got grudges to avenge, they don't have time to deal with silly topics like physic!
Lmao the CC has completely given up at this point. Legend is called only Here
Legend, you might be as good as you are, but know: you can‘t touch this
Would the flame cannon have been there for sieges? The legendary lord already has siege attacker
I am disappointed you didn't photoshop orange parachute pants on the hammerer.
Peter Dawi and Legend sing "If i had a hammer" Rating schemes gouda on them mate.
I do not think that cannon here for siege attack, Thorgrim have this anyway, no?
I would like number ratings in each of the three grading criteria!
We need numbers associated with the new ranking system!
When's the review of immortal empires , :-)
but why the cannon for siege attacker doesnt the legendary get it too?
Warhammer 3 is so easy that Legend is not getting Disaster saves anymore :D
No score?? Why not 3 points for each category? Everyone gets 1 point automatically for a score out of 10.
Practicality 2
Strength 2
Ease of use 2
Automatic 1
7 for this doom stack.
Number rating systems are not helpful as everyone has a diff idea of what it should be. For IGN-types anything below an 8 is absolute trash and 10s are your average game. For more critical reviewers 5 is adverage and 10 is rarely given and signifies perfect. With this system you actually have to listen to the breakdown.
I like the new rating system specially the pratical part
wouldnt grombrindal be a better choice with his army move speed bonus ?
my dwarves are as fast ogres now
Its gotta be Thorgrim because he gives lots of buffs to hammerers
Game's so easy, no one is encountering disaster situations anymore
The new rating system is great. :)
Hammerers? Taking up room where you could have fit another unit of quarrelers. 🏹
Come at me bro
Feel like those giants were a problem.