4 Dumb MISTAKES You're Making When Tracking Drums
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2022
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If you're recording drums and not getting the pro-level drum sound you want in the final mix...
chances are you've made a mistake during tracking. I've been there and I learned the hard way: through trial and error, and time spent.
In this video, I'm sharing the most common drum tracking mistakes so you can save yourself time & energy - and instantly start capturing great drum tracks at the source.
☛ We help audio engineers master the craft, go pro, and make an impact in the industry. Learn more about the Pro Production System at utm.guru/ue4ka
About the overheads….I think, no matter where you place them you should still maintain the „same distance from the snare“ rule. The snare will be in it anyway and you don‘t wanna destroy its center image.
Close mics solo’d don’t always sound particularly natural because you don’t listen to drums with your ear 3 inches from the head. So getting your overheads in phase with your snare is without question indispensable. The snare is going to be in the overheads and it’s what is going to blend with the close mics to give your snare a more natural sound.
I usually do this for live. 99% of the time my overheads end up in different heights and look weird but the snare is always centered and without phase issues. I gladly sacrifice the looks fort the sound.
I prefer to have each overhead the same distance away from their perspective crash cymbals, and then I apply a few samples of delay to the close overhead to put it in time with the further overhead (snare as reference). Of course just going equidistant from the snare with the mics and turning up the one that’s further away from its crash is (almost) the same thing just done in a different way. But if you’re going equidistant with the overhead mics (on most kits) and not making a level compensation you’re just cock blocking the stage left crash cymbal. Of course I’m generalizing here and every kit is different. Lucky for me my drummer’s kit is symmetrical thanks to a double kick so I get equidistant from the snares and the cymbals! Easy mode!
all engineers should own a drum dial for drummers who aren't great at tuning before recording
yes, or a tune bot @@adamdraper5522
Great video but I think many would disagree about overheads only being for cymbals
Agreed.
This…
I totally disagree with what is said about overheads. I have several go to techniques I like depending on the kit configuration.. And that is 40+ years of experience speaking.
I never get great snare sound without great overheads… maybe he is just trigger replace everything…
Probably a genre/style thing. I put overheads down low and in the center of the kit so they get big Tom sounds and also pick up the tap on the kick drum. But, I’m also an amateur so
One other comment I would make, moving the mic and inch or two is the absolute BEST EQ you can use. 😉. When I was an assistant I remember Al Schmitt looking at me as we were recording horns and saying “hey, do you want to see me EQ this Sax?” And then he moves the mic a couple inches up from the bell towards the mouthpiece. And then he says “see, I just changed the EQ on it!” Lol. Comical, but he was right. Before you reach for an EQ, always try moving the mic around.
Awesome!
You r so blessed to work for Al !!!tell us more….
If you're on a budget, this is what you do: have the drummer hit the cymbals lightly while bashing the hell out of the drums. Self-mixing is what I learned back when I took lessons with Sonny Emory.
That's pretty much how Bonzo recorded his drums. He also tuned them jazz style so the skins were good and tight. This gave the kit a huge sound and helped with cutting through the mix.
Worked for Bonham! and one of my mentors recorded him back in the day! He said JB had the perfect touch when it came to his cymbals
Totally agree. You don't play on studio the same way you play live, it really helps a lot.
@@bernardoantelo4763 I completely disagree. The best drummers play the same in both. Playing like a jackass live just makes it hard to mix, just like it would in the studio.
All drummers should be self mixing anyway.
As a session drummer, these are all very great touch points. You rule Jordan! 🤘🙏
“It’s going to be impossible to get a good tone!”
-sample replacer go brrrrrr
Dude your the man. You’re one of the few people that I will actually subscribe to. Thank you for personifying keep it simple stupid. You’re awesome
Awesome, simple, straight forward -- thanks Jordan.
Thanks for the great video! Looking forward to lowering my overheads and testing the result.
Man, you are doing good work here. Whether you're confirming something I've already learned thru trial & error or introducing something that I always wondered about, it's ALL good information. You're saving people plenty of pain if they would just apply your guidance. Thank you.
Best snare sound comes from the overheads, this is the real snare sound, individual snare mics add attack, definition etc but without overheads the main thing is missing.
Wow absolutely not. Top + Bottom snare mics are going to be "the" snare sound you're looking for. Overheads SHOULD be used as an overall image of the kit with the close mics pushing the transients, sure, but, yeah no. If you're not using a bottom snare mic, that's why you're saying this.
kek
the last point about the consistent energy - I've run into that before, there was one guy that kept tailing off so much that I tore into him to piss him off so he was constantly pumped up with adrenaline (only a good idea if the drummer can't beat you up in a fight)
funny enough at :30 those Peavy Radial Pro drums in the pic were overengineered self tensioned instruments, expensive as hell because they were cut out of super thin solid single blocks of maple, never sold well because they were ugly, and were discontinued probably around 2001. They were also one of the most awesome sounding attacky drums I've ever heard when tuned up and put in a half decent room.
Good tips. I found this all out by doing it for decades. But, of course, I was poor and had junk drum sets and junk mics. Once I got better equipment, it was obvious I was doing something wrong. The sound wasn't bad, but I wasn't getting the sound I wanted. After experimenting I finally got it.
Let’s see what dumb mistakes I made tracking drums on the last song:
1) forgot to turn on phantom power (no overheads!)
2) Snare mic was unclipped and sitting o top of drum rack (basically just recorded hihat)
3)floor tom mic was unplugged
4) at one point one of my Overheads wasn’t even plugged in to the interface. Turned out I was recording my guitar’s pickups the whole time. 😂
This was for a 10 minute song that I was trying to record in a single take. 😭
"I traced the cord back to the wall. No wonder, it was never plugged in at all!"
Super super straight and honest guy. rare to see that on internet. thanks
Just signed up for the workshop. Looking forward to the mic positioning strategies.
I barely found your channel and I know you're mostly talking about studio stuff, but everything you say on your videos can also be applied to live sound. I usually tune drums when different bands comes in and change drum heads from the house kit all the time. (once a week) I sometimes even change the snare if need be AND EVEN USE underheads sometimes because I don't want to capture any of the shells I just want the cymbals to be as isolated as possible. I also saw one of your videos about not removing low mids and 100% agreeee!!! Especially in a live sound environment when the bass player isnt playing on the low E or B(5 string) which results in subs disappearing fairly quickly but keeping the low mids really really help maintain a full mix even without the subs. GREAT STUFF!!
Excellent video and great advice!
I had a successful experiment a while back where I did use the WHOLE kit audio from the overhead mics, but I dropped the high end EQ on the individual tom and snare mics. Sounded very cohesive, but not as much attack.
Very good video and very good advice! Thank you!
I love DW drums because their fast sizes and shells have such a huge tuning range! I switched from remo to evans heads for same reason huge tuning rang from retro dead to wide open. Great as always!
Agreed
Great video! Pragmatic and direct. I’ve recorded drums for about 8 years now and I totally came up with the same conclusions
Strongly disagree about the close overhead mic-ing. Great tips otherwise, but personally, even with modern rock and pop punk (both of which I work with regularly as a full time studio owner) I prefer the higher up, full drum capture, overhead sound much better than the close sound. Sometimes you gotta pull ALOT of low mids out of it, but when its right it sounds incredible along side a great stereo pair of room mics. Of course, in modern music the Snare and Kick (and often the snare and kick samples) are gonna be king and I would never argue otherwise, but the higher overheads give you that window into who the drummer is as a player and I love that most of the time.
One mic inside the kick isn't a great tip either. Unless you want it to sound more like a metronome than a kick drum
@@silkroad1201100% gente dependent
I think he's right, most drums are not in great rooms and the further away the mics are from the drums the more of the room you hear...
You may not need to mic the bottom of the toms but if you know what you're doing and mics are good in some cases it can absolutely make the difference between using a sample or not
100% accurate
Damn. That was a lot of good points. Ty!!
Came across your channel recently, can't wait to put a lot of your advice in practice. Feels like good advice. Thank you!
I've been tracking drums for- God, who knows at this point. Everything I've done was self-taught and to this day I'm still looking for ways to get better.
On the point of energy consistency - This is absolutely crucial. It changes *everything*, especially if your drummer is fixing parts and then proceeds to "fix" the part by accidentally hitting half as hard.
I respect every point you make and can't tell these to people enough.
Wow cool to see you here, Kin. I love your covers!
Another great tip that really helps is being careful not to place the hihats too low or too close to the snare. Placing the hihats kinda' high really helps preventing them from sounding too much on the other mics.
The hats should b e placed by the drummer in the position that he is comfortable playing. The engineer does not get to decide where the drummer's drums are placed. Do you tell a guitar player how to hold the pick? Do you tell a keyboard player how to sit while playing?
@@jeffrockit I'm no engineer. I'm a drummer. And in order to sound good in the studio I learned to place the hihats higher. If you don't want to take this advice it's fine, but if you do, I bet your engineer will appreciate it very much.
As a drummer and an engineer I agree with both of you.
@@jeffrockit well if you want your snare to sound like shit this is a 100% go to method. and when the drummer cant hit hard enough then its a literal hell to get something out of it. if i can improve a recording with my knowledge that i have collected over the years and move the hihat, god even cymbals higher so i dont get a shitty recording, then yes i am totally doing it.
This is PURE GOLD TOO!
This video is so spot on! I can't stand when people send me tracks using "traditional" overhead placement for cymbals...with a screaming loud hi-hat and quiet crash cymbals 😂
Thats more the drummer than the mic placement. Anybody can tell you the difference between a stage drummer vs a session drummer.
@@AudioReplica2023 Even with a great drummer, it can be an issue. Especially with busy/technical heavy music where you need maximum clarity.
@@FrightboxRecording Id worked with both , Session and Stage drummers in the past and to my experience session drummers take more consideration and knows how to hit a crash properly when in the studio which it makes the process more enjoyable than a headache. Theres a good reason why those Pro session drummers are constantly getting work from different artists. Thats no just luck you know.
@@FrightboxRecording This video would help you understand what im saying. Simon Phillips drum lesson: recording tips.
It’s the oldest joke in engineering that you can put practically any mic on hats because it’s going to be so low in your drum mix if you even use it at all that it really doesn’t matter if you put a 57 on hats. For good measure I still always use a 451 if there’s some closed hi hat shnazzyness that needs to be boosted here or there, but hats are the loudest cymbals on the kit. If I was going to cut a mic from my normal miking set up, hi hat would be the first mic I’d cut and it usually doesn’t have much to do with overhead placement.
Thanks for this tip!!!!!! I been finding myself with mainly 6 mics on kit when I record live bands in shows and in studio. Kick Snare Toms Overheads. Sometimes maybe an outside kick mic lol sometimes a hi hat mic and maybe bottom snare but I love 6 mics really. When the drummer tune their drums and know how to balance themselves with playing dynamic wise it makes the recording and mixing more detailed and smooth!!!
I agree with everything except two things here. First of all, a classic mic setup will work and does work, and a blanket statement like "Don't do anything except exactly THIS with your overheads," is wrong on its face. Secondly, some drummers like myself, hit the snare inconsistently on purpose. I'll have a section where I want to hit the rim for a few bars, or I'll accent every fourth 3 beat, or whatever. It's called nuance, and people are WAY too used to samples and unrealistic consistency of hits. I use ALL real sounds, and I play with dynamics and nuance, and furthermore I have fourteen mics on my drums. 3 on the kick. Because sometimes I need whoosh, sometimes I need splat, sometimes I need thud, you name it. Similarly I have stereo room dynamic mics, a mono room large condenser, and a mono hallway dynamic mic. Same reason. Sometimes the stereo room mics are too splashy, so I take them out. Sometimes the condenser room mic is too clicky, so I lower it. Sometimes, theoretically, the hallway mic will be too washy (although I have yet to experience this and lower them, although some people will indeed say my hats have a bit too much wetness). So I guess my whole problem with this, is exactly the same as what I infer to be your problem with Beato's assertions: they do not always apply even though they're being stated as universal. I agree with you not Beato, that toms don't need a reso mic. But I also agree with Beato that . . . why not?! You see? It's all subjective, and you don't seem to acknowledge that from what I can tell. I think blanket statements, as I said before, are (ironically) ALWAYS wrong on their face.
Good video. Good perspective.
My drum kit is EZ Drummer VST. Sounds great by default, but split them out individually in the mixer into Cubase, and saved a template that already has the settings I want per drum. Also, drop those hihat sounds out. For me the virtual overhead and room gets enough of the hihat.
The running theme in the comments that we can all seem to agree on is that close miking hi hats is the most dispensable mic if you need to cut a mic. Hats are the loudest cymbals on the kit. They’re going to pick up in the overheads just fine. I’ve actually invested in 2 sets of 13” hats because they’re not as loud and I got Paiste signatures and Sabian AAFusion hats. So they both sound great. Just noticeably lower in volume, making them easier to deal with in a drum mix.
Thanks for the video
Well said sir 👍😊
Dear Mr Jordon....Do have a video of you showing the best way to mic up the cymbals/ride/hi hats? I have just discovered your channel & have subscribed yr channel.
The drummer, the drums, the room and the engineer are where the money is.
Expensive mics, preamps, compressors, etc. (that we all lust after)...not so much.
Agreed with all the advice, especially not trying to get a modern, over all, drum sound from the overhead position.
One stereo pair in front or behind the drummer is better for that.
All great advice.
How do you handle phase when recording cymbals vs a more standard overhead placement? Are the mics still equidistant from the snare or do you time align them afterwards? Or are they basically high-passed enough where it doesn’t matter?
X/Y pair, and contrary to whatever this dude has seen before, they're always supposed to be pointed at the cymbals.
Time aligning overheads is something you're supposed to go over in Music Engineering class and then never use, ever again.
The previous 1,000,000 platinum records produced would beg to differ with you about drum sounds require 'time aligned overheads'.
Some of the nicest recorded drum sounds I've got have been in a small room. No room treatment except the kit is at a 45, and theres multiple pieces of gear like hammond organ, multiple amps..so there are odd angles everywhere. One mic just inside the port, 2 snare mics and two cheap lg diapragm tube condensers spaced equally at 45s from center of the kit..but low and only a few feet away. Great stereo imaging. I start with room mics first and add just enough of the kick and snare to get the sound and imaging where i want it. Cheap an dirty can be awesome.
Good tips. One thing to note about using the Glyn Johns or recorderman techniques that most people don't understand....If your room is bad, these micing techniques only makes it worse.
GJ is a phenomenal setup IF AND ONLY IF you’re in great rooms with good drummers. My bands have used it a few times now and, being the drummer, it’s a BRUTALLY honest record of your playing.
As a drummer and engineer I want to add: Keep snare drum heads tight during a song performance and use screw locks.. I made this mistake myself a lot. You start playing a song that is aggressive on the snare, the start of the song you have a crispy snare, in the end you have a muddy snare. There are different systems ranging from nylon screws to real locking mechanisms that hold the square screw in place against the rim. Mind the details!
Just get better equipment if your snare doesn't last a song..
@@ytscksdabig1No, it has nothing to do with the price of the snare. This only happens when the drummer hits hard: the lugs slip little by little and the tuning changes. I personally use the nylon locks on the snares at my studio, but only for hard-hitting tunes.
I added an extra microphone for the ride cymbal because it didn‘t get through against the crash cymbals on the regular overheads.
I honestly don’t get why it is dumb to get a clean stereo image from the overheads or a pair of room mikes and use this as a basis to build the drum sound. If a cymbal or the ride bell needs to be supported, put a mike on it. Putting the Overhead faders up and getting a washy phasey wired image cymbal sound makes it really hard to get something out of it, because samples won’t help here.
If you have too much mikes, just mute them. I agree with the purpose. They shouldn’t be placed randomly hoping the best.
Telling the drummer to focus on a consistent snare sound could work with great drummers that would do that anyway, but might destroy the performance of a not so experienced drummer that starts thinking instead of just playing. This is something that is easy to repair with samples, especially those created during sound check for the running session.
I agree 100% that a good kit and good tuning are things that are extremely valuable.
I agree with everything except the over heads!
For a long time I only had two inputs. Kick and over head. U can really get a great sound from one nice mic.
Now I’m all close miced, with a matched pair of small diaphragm spot mics right above the two cymbals on the left, and two on the right, with one large diaphragm overhead high up to capture the whole kit. Phase align the OH if u want it to be tighter or leave it hang.
You can do a lot with just three mics, check out the Glyn Johns technique.
I got two kits setup at all time in a Mike Portnoy-style(those who remembers the monster kits knows), with one kit with all close mics, 3 mics on the snare, sub kick, the whole nine yards. That’s for the modern rock, pop and metal. Then I got a smaller kit with just mics in kick, snare and two Ribbon mics over heads in a Recorderman configuration. Sometimes I record modern stuff, sometimes it’s more old school. So depending on the situation, it’s all good.
Placing Overheads at the edge of the cymbals, wouldn't that create some wash/phasey sounds? Just curious. I've always placed mine closer to the cymbal but more over the middle to avoid that windy washy sound.
No. If you mic too close to the center or too close in proximity, you’ll get weird low end build ups that you have to do eq surgery to remove. Having a bit of distance from the cymbals and having the mics aimed maybe about 3-4 inches from the edge of the cymbals will give you the best result. Ride is an exception. It’s best to point it toward the bell, but at an angle so that you’re not getting low end build up and weird overtones and also getting the distance right for a natural a clear and clean sound.
@dfasht you can start with the easiest solution. Tight your wing nuts and get felts that when you screw on your wing nuts, you can tighten them to however much tightness gives you the amount of cymbal movement when you hit it.
Also though, you won’t get phase issues in your cymbals from normal amounts of movement. It’s not like they’re moving 5 or 6 inches closer and further from your OH’s. Crashes might move about an inch and a half when struck and then residual movement is like millimeters. The only way you’d get phasing issues is if you had your overheads way too close to the cymbals.
Totally agree!
It's funny that this video popped up and today I got one of the best sounding drum takes ever ! Using two kicks in and out one snare and two overhead large condensers both 34 in away from center of snare one above and one behind right shoulder . Small room , Amazing sounding drums ( pearl masters , mahogany ) well tuned ! I believe the key was well placed mics
Great advice! Would you still setup the overhead mics so that they are symetrical to the middle line of the drumkit, so snare and kick are centered and you get a reasonable stereo image, or do you place them to get the same level from every cymbal and don't care about the rest of the kit at all? Thx and kind regards
Only care about the snare being centered in the overheads, not the rest of the kit.
@@hardcoremusicstudio makes sense, thx
This is our Drummer, I have to sample most of his play throughs or to save time I have to re-drum the track myself......Hopefully he never sees this
"to save time I have to re-drum the track myself" lol that's awesome, and your drummer never detects this? You must really go out of your way to try to play just what he was trying to ..unless he's ultra wishy washy and never plays it the same way twice anyway, and wouldn't be in a good position to know. I'm intrigued by this comment though!
@@callbackdons He never plays it the same, I keep his essence the same while keeping everything clean and in time. I tell him I just sample the fills snare and kick to make sure everything is in time.
So we made a kick that's double length, it's sounds pretty amazing in the room. I have some doubts now but it's hard to imagine it sounding bad.
what's your opinion on internal drum mics purely in terms of sound? i'm considering setting up some in my drumkit to get the microphones out of the way on the top of the kit (i have a lot of cymbals)
Internal drum mics to me sound like listening to music with your head underwater. Record the drums raw with no EQ and A/B the tracks. Internal mics then external mics. You'll hear what I mean. Always experiment and do what sounds good to you.
The only way to get internal mics to work and sound good is by not using resonant heads on the toms. You can actually get hilariously fat sounding toms by tuning them super low, and getting rid of the reso heads, and sticking the mic inside the drum about 3-5 inches from the head, angled slightly.
I agree with the technical points in the video, especially the point of not over complicating things with too many mics. I'm not discounting the "old school" (Glynn Johns) miking method/style, if the artist prefers that over the modern metal/ rock sound. Just look at the number of streams from classic Led Zeppelin compared to modern music. The John Bonham sound is still very desirable.
Yepp realy good one , especialy the Cymbals
PRO LEVEL ADVICE right here!!! 👍🥁
Lots of good stuff here. The overheads being cymbal mics vs overall mics is very subejctive. I actually prefer the overheads not close to the cymbals so I get the whole kit, and most other engineers I know usually prefer that too (looks like a lot of people in the comments agree on that too). It does depend on the genre and mics you're using. If you're running those Audix adx-51s, those are pre eq-ed to be cymbal mics, so those are going to suck as whole kit mics. But if you're using soyuz 013s, sm81s, earthwork sr15s, and many other industry standard overhead mics, they'll work as cymbal mics or whole kit mics.
WHY DOES HE HAVE HIS MONITORS ON THEIR SIDES
maybe it’s just a background or something but in almost any case this will result in horrible inaccurate mixes that are just horrible. The frequency response will be way off and the equilateral triangle with your ears right between the two speakers will be completely thrown off.
At the moment I only have payment option through russian credit cards. Paypal won't accept them either. Is there a way to register with other means?
I've always took pride in my ability to tune drums. Came from years of practice and using my ears. If your drums don't sound good to begin with, no amount of money in microphones will make a bad drum sound good.
Just put triggers on everything and mix it any damn way you want! I was in on a recording session, the button pusher and pot pusher wanted to rig my kit. So it took a few hours until they were happy with the sound they were getting. I get into the chair and they had retuned my kit, arraigned everything (drum angles, cymbal height, etc.) to where the kit was unplayable the way they set it up, but insisted I play it that way because of the mic setup to avoid sympathetic overtones. Pretty hard to play on a Ride cymbal and Hi Hats when they're farther than I could reach and attack.
I think some of you guys are FoS, you just love your damn gadgets too much.
Agreed 100%! Could I add a thing?? Please, don't clip your A/D inputs!! I see so many people with that 'analog thinking' to record 'hot' and totally destroying the drums sound. Another point: don't föck your transients by overcompressing drums in the recording!! Unless it's a aesthetic/concept thing, of course!
Depending upon the snare sound you're after, you might not even need a bottom snare mic. I've gotten some great snare sounds from just the top mic, with the room mics and overheads making up more of the high end. If you want a snappy snare, then put a mic on the bottom. But snares can also sound incredible without one.
Snare bottom is only very rarely needed, IF you place the overheads in a good place and not completely ass backwards as in this con-video.
You should always have a snare bottom mic if inputs allow for it.
@@hepphepps8356 Wrong. A snare and bass both require at least two mics. You can get away with one, sure, but two always make it sound better.
A kick in and a kick out will ALWAYS sound better than just one of the two. A kick out won't have that thwack attack, a kick in won't have the body and boom. It's the same with the snare. The top gives you the note and the overall tone of the drum, the bottom gives you the actual snare sound and snap. Blended together, you'll never want to use just a top mic again...
Totally agree with OH just on cymbals
If you are new to recording and have some time to experiment with a patent musician try putting a pair of high isolation headphones and use a mic on a boom pole. Walk around the kit and stick the mic in different places and listen to what the mic is picking up as you move it around. Move the mic around and listen to how the sound changes. How does moving the location of the mic change the snare sound? Have the drummer play just a single drum you are listening to then have them play the entire kit. Listen to what other drums/instruments the mic is picking up.
I have read several notable engineers from the 50's and 60's talk about how they would walk around the studio while musicians were setting up and dialing in the sound. They would stand in different places listening to how things sounded.
Good stuff. Only objection is saying that trying to capture the whole kit in the overheads will almost always sound bad. I like the recorder-man method for a vibey sound, although the floor tom does always seem to need its own mic. Great channel. Enjoy it.
Unless you mean specifically for specific music styles I don’t agree on the big drum sizes thing, I love recording 24/26 inch kicks, they sound massive, I assume you mean more get the appropriate sized kit for the sound you’re going for. QOTSA used 28 inch kicks on their first album and on their third, it’s more about how you mic it and getting the sound you’re after accurately rather than the drums being too big, unless you’re playing jazz or death metal you can definitely use a 24 /26 for rock/heavy rock. Nothing wrong with a big kit for the right style of music. Anywho great content I’ve learnt a few tricks recently just wanted to point that out 👊🏻🤘🏻
Yes, this video and his channel are pretty much focused on metal or hardcore rock exclusively. His comments on overhead position are more metal specific as well. Although, I've seen other metal productions with the overheads pretty high above the kit. I think it really depends on the sound you are looking for.
@@weeschwee yeah I mean that’s fair, same with Glenn fricker’s channel, still good to watch it all, always stuff to be learnt regardless. 👊🏻🤘🏻
@@sleepisbutadream I totally agree. There's lots of good information shared. And even if you disagree with something, you can at least understand the thought behind it and what you might do differently.
Not wrong here however, DIY punk hardcore recordings many I have made myself for local bands 10 plus years sometimes have absolute trash drums... Luckily the music source makes it work for those drums because they lack the characteristics of a well tuned and well made drum set. It really is play it by ear for some of these things.
Butttt.... you are absolutely correct in the general sense for how it should be done.
Meow
Do you like to place just one overhead for the ride, or two to get the ride edge, and the bell?
Man... I don't wanna be condescending in any way but a lot of legendary engineers use an XY or ORTF to capture the whole kit with great success. I think my own sound isn't terrible either and I almost always use XY... ua-cam.com/video/zZ72RyB-xUM/v-deo.html I'm pretty damn proud of this. The room isn't exemplary either, and I'm not *that* good at tracking, although I know I'm a pro.
It really depends on the genre. I think XY or ORTF is the best for most things, but when it comes to modern metal what he says is accurate. That's something that should have been mentioned in the video IMHO - context (genre) is important for some of these micing decisions.
I've always preferred coincident pair as overheads. Get the snare in the centre and gives me a true stereo image with no phase problems. But each to their own.
I try to do a Glyn Jons + kick/snare/room first. If i need more:: kick in, snare top (sometimes bottom), HH, toms, OH in wide stereo + room. Drum is not snare + kick + hats + ride + toms. It's a whole instrument.
The "bad" picture is of one of the best sounding drum kits ever made lol Peavey Radials lol
Very much agree with this, although drummer´s dynamics should be in line with the music. Obviously he is talking from rock and metal point of view but recording jazz for example is different. However, energy in drumming when tracking is more than physical - it´s actually more psychological and mental process. Relaxing and focusing gives best results. However - in any case - drummer should do his or her homework before session.
If I could only have one or the other I rather have great overheads capturing the entire kit than close mics on all the individual drums.
I could see for metal it’s different due to the samples and drum replacement due to the style.
How do you keep hi hat focused with spaced pair of overheads? Whenever i try it, cymbals sound great but hi hat is smeared across stereofield. Is it necessary to have a hi hat mic with this approach?
That is what I do. Use a hi hat mic. Also, if you hit the hi hat softer, it helps.
I would mic snare up and down, kick subkick and one in the hole, stereo pair of overheads and a mono room mic.
I'll be the one to agree with the overheads thing. If you go for getting the full drum in the overheads, there's usually not much left to control cymbals in the mix. You end up depending way too much on the drummer's performance and it limits your options.
If you have the time, knowledge and perfect drummer, by all means. If you'd rather be on the safer side, focus your OH on getting great sounding cymbals.
Yo… trick I learned. Mix both sides of the Tom and flip the phase of the bottom one. It’s dope
Disagree about the OHs… I usually get most of my sound from the OHs, then I tweak the kick and snare tracks for additional clarity.
And nothing makes up for a really good player. Some players are so good, they’ll nail tracks in one take. No engineer tricks can make up for great players.
I saw myself making these mistakes. Though there's the magic of drum replacement, it cannot make bad drums sound professional
The first 2 Beatles albums only used 2 mics and the drum sound was very natural.
Drummer here. Spend $100 bucks or so on a Drum Dial. So worth it. Zero guesswork, and you can tune by the tiniest increments which are (for most people) impossible to hear.
Strongly disagree with the overheads just being for cymbals. The overheads are where I get the nice snare sound from. A snare close mic never sound great on its own - for me it’s just there to add power and body, while the niceness comes from the overheads and possibly the room mics.
The problem with the consitancy or pretty much anything regarding the playing of drums is that if the drummer doesn't have it in the studio he will probably not be able to improve during the recording session. If anything he'll get confused because that will be one more thing he'll have to focus on and will start making mistakes in other areas. I do agree however. Hitting snare or cymbals or toms inconsistent will cause a lot of damage to your drum recording - even if you're sampling all the drums you'll still have inconsitent hits in the Over Heads and they will not interact nice with the samples.
Fully agree with the Overheads thing!
That day when I realised everytime I get Overhead tracks send to me, the hihat is louder than any crash cymbal and the ride is barely noticeable without tons of automation, I decided to never record a drum set with standart 2 overhead mics above the kit. And when I recorded drums with mics for crashes, hihat, ride instead of getting the full kit stereo, this is where the punch and attack from the kit came to life. It was the biggest eye opener for me in the past 4 years. I was like "THIS is how they make those drums so exciting!"
So to me NEVER use classic overhead techniques in recording metal-ish music.
I mean I still use my sm81s in a stereo pair, basic but everything is nicely individually mic’d.
I get most of the punch from one mono room mic in front of the kit for a TON of body, AKG414.
@@GabrielXDrums How far out front?
@@dodo13500 about a foot or two
@@GabrielXDrums Wow, thanks!
Is it really OH mics if you point them at the edge of a specific cymbal? It sounds more like spot mics to me.
Putting a kick mic on the bottom of floor toms is one of the greatest moves I ever started making when micing drums. I like big heavy drums though.
thx
Fantastic video and a lot of great information but it’s also very genre specific.. I record a lot of jazz and folk-ish kind of music and the overheads DEFINE the kit sound for those genres. No Tom mics, just 2 overheads, kick and snare. My big thing is I just disagree on your philosophy for overheads outside of your genres and I’d hope it doesn’t mislead someone new who’s looking to record jazz drums or something more intimate and airy
Fair enough, I definitely am only focusing on rock, punk, metal etc. on my channel!
@@hardcoremusicstudio there’s some great stuff here though! I’ve definitely taken a thing or two from your channel despite working in different styles. I didn’t mean to sound brash if I did just wary of the unsuspecting beginner
You can't polish a turd, but you can certainly roll it in glitter, you can easily put a midi trigger on a recording track and link it to a better sounding drum, and then blend the 2. This is a game changer for recording crap sounding drums, obviously it's only applicable if u have a separate mic for the given drum.
3:40 KISS...keep it simple stupid, simple is mostly the best way
I'm not a current mic person, however I found in the past it was very unwise to mount a mic in or on a place where it will get other vibrations, like mounting the mic right on the drum kit or having the mic floor stand against or to close to the drum kit, especially the bass drum..
I always recommend to hire a local pro drum tech, if the drummer doesn‘t know, how to tune his kit…and I have to agree, there are a lot of these drummers out there.
Great video! Btw that picture of Rick Beato, he's actually showing a Glyn Johns technique. But I would not agree with "don't try to capture drum sound with overheads" sorry it's just wrong whatever genre you recording, close mics are close mics, overheads for the image, you can't mess with it 🤷♂️ sorry
"You have to have new heads on..."
In my experience sure you want new heads, but play on them first. They need a little time to settle and stretch so dont throw em on the day before or of the session.
You said Silverstein. Instant sub
I would very much disagree with the point about overheads not being intended to make a full picture of the drums, and are only there for cymbals...yes, on a metal or hardcore record perhaps, but for damn near anything else, you should be able to pull up just the OHs and kick mic and have something acceptable. Obviously if you're making a Tool album that's not gonna fly, but for a massive portion of rock/blues/country/etc, it will work very well. Snare and tom mics help you accentuate and dial in a more full, big sounding drum kit, but in quite a few cases it's the OHs that is really giving you the full picture of what the snare, toms, and cymbals sound like together as a whole instrument, particularly if they're being played in a nice sounding room.
Great video overall, but I would argue about the #4, of course take with bad timing and take with too inconsistent hits are both bad takes, but just like you can quantize drums you can sample augment them too, and I would prefer to have take with great timing and inconsistent hits so I can retain drummers performance and fix his inconsistent hits with sample from the same session, kinda as if he played electronic drums, rather than having to castrate his performance by quantazing it, which basically makes it sound like a drum machine.
I have to disagree with the multi mic comment. I agree you should know what you are doing and you should know how to use multiple mics but using multiple mics correctly gets the sound without needing to trigger samples IF you know what you are doing and you know how to time align/phase align the mics. If I have time I will come back and post pics and examples.