White Arrows, Black Spells: the Brynden Rivers Story

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  • Опубліковано 27 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 273

  • @241pints
    @241pints 3 роки тому +208

    Egg and Bloodraven do an inverted dance to a song of ice and fire. Egg starts out with the small folk away from Kings Landing while Bloodraven "rules" there from the shadows. They then converge and Bloodraven goes north, away from King's Landing to live eventually with the children of the forest (small folk) while Egg rules in King's Landing. Egg is eventually consumed by fire, while Bloodraven is preserved in ice.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +56

      Oh hey very cool observation

    • @SingingSealRiana
      @SingingSealRiana 3 роки тому +14

      Agree, this is an awesome connection I totaly missed to make myself, thanks for bringing it up ^^

    • @jonhauge-evaldsson783
      @jonhauge-evaldsson783 3 роки тому +23

      A dragon locked in ice, like Jon and maester Aemon.

    • @taylortanner37
      @taylortanner37 2 роки тому +2

      More preserved by earth and weir roots, kind of like how Egg grew up around salt of the earth types but yes out in that white wasteland. I like the symmentry, thanks for pointing it out. I like coming across new under currents in well written series.

  • @BetImRight
    @BetImRight 2 роки тому +74

    George's version of Rhaegar is him brooding, writing sad songs while playing the harp. David's version of Rhaegar is him chilaxing in a big ass chair, reading a book with a bottle of Hennessey... Both are correct.

  • @Drew_Thompson
    @Drew_Thompson 3 роки тому +83

    I never thought about the fact the blood raven was the result of a greedy dragon inserting himself into a tree.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +15

      Oooh symbolism! Yeah he sure is isn’t he.. like a last hero as greenseer who is the son of evil AA

    • @autje1970
      @autje1970 3 роки тому +5

      This puts images into my head that I don't want there!

    • @vde1846
      @vde1846 3 роки тому +1

      Linnorm :)

  • @andrewbahlman7768
    @andrewbahlman7768 3 роки тому +38

    I know I commented this live but I gotta say man the Rhaegars Reading Corner is fuckin brilliant! and getting better every stream brother 👍

  • @lewdogsk8er
    @lewdogsk8er 3 роки тому +16

    “One often encounters their destiny on the road they take to avoid it”

  • @SingingSealRiana
    @SingingSealRiana 3 роки тому +19

    I simply can not take any mentioning of Rhegar playing his harp seriously . . . like at all . . . it makes me smile every time

  • @obi-juankarlos2409
    @obi-juankarlos2409 3 роки тому +48

    Bloodraven's telling Bran not to reach those in the past feels like a warning, sure but also, it's naive to think a kid would not take that as an invitation to try it.
    It would be super tragic if it was during his first attempt at "flying" in the Weirwood net that he tried to stop himself from shooting his brother at the Red Field, only for that "wind among the trees" (or whatever it sounds when a Greenseer tries to talk to you through a Weirwood) actually causing his young self to let loose the first arrow, prompting his men to also shoot.
    A dragon inside a tree causing a moon figure (his young self) to clash with a dark sun (his Blackfyre bro) and releasing white arrows, like white moon shards raining.
    It could also be a foreshadowing of Bran having to catch his own young self attention into the broken tower's window and causing his literal downfall. Maybe he will also try to stop himself, actually being the reason why it happened.
    Head canon until George writes the something else lol

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +13

      haha indeed! Those are good ideas, I agree that George will find some utterly cruel way to show us messing with the timeline isn't a good thing, probably more than just the Hodoring.

    • @obi-juankarlos2409
      @obi-juankarlos2409 3 роки тому +8

      @@DavidLightbringer Well I'm excited to get sad, Brynden's life must have been really sad, more than we know. Hell, maybe his beloved sister/lover was on par with Mel's skills regarding visions, and she knew he had to be miserable, or at least never marry her for him to be able to fullfil his tree-wizard role.
      Probably like Bran destiny, he wasn't able to escape his big tragedies, and he's bounded to watch them on repeat.

    • @andrzejkopalnia
      @andrzejkopalnia 3 роки тому +1

      @@umwha Holy smokes!

    • @MrEnjoivolcom1
      @MrEnjoivolcom1 Рік тому

      I adhere to the traditional time traveling rules that whatever you do, events will will always play out as they have. For example, going back in time to stop JFK assassination. You spend all night in the past destroying the road of Daily Plaza or flatten the tires on the limo...yet, no matter what you do JFK is still killed in some insane freaky way. Aka, you can't stop it. You can change things, scenarios, and situations but, in the end the thing you're attempting to prevent still comes to pass.

  • @mormontsraven4072
    @mormontsraven4072 3 роки тому +15

    That Comic Sans font with the "Sunset colors" for Rhaegar's Reading Corner gets me every time. I imagine that is how a teenage Rhaegar would have written in his secret diary after reading about all those prophecies.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +6

      heh heh I'm gonna revive RRC here soon don't you worry

  • @menaemem7143
    @menaemem7143 8 місяців тому +1

    Bloodraven and Shiera deserve to have their own HBO show ! , their story is more fascinating than House of Dragon

  • @GoldenXBoots
    @GoldenXBoots 3 роки тому +6

    I love that these are uploaded the next day. I listen to these videos while processing data at work. Great combination and keeps me same😌

  • @davethefunyunnight9053
    @davethefunyunnight9053 3 роки тому +27

    Daemon Blackfyre and Bobby B would get along great.

    • @wyzasukitan
      @wyzasukitan 3 роки тому +10

      I feel like Bittersteel and Bobby B would get along even better!! That said, the amount of salt flowing over Shiera & Lyanna leaving those boys on read could keep Winterfell de-iced through the next three Long Nights and then some 🤭

  • @TheeAmethystEmpress6589
    @TheeAmethystEmpress6589 3 роки тому +15

    Hey! Love your readings! And Rhaegar's as well. And I only noticed just now with your reading that Lord Bloodraven behaves very intimidating while sentencing the traitors and once it's only him and Dunk and Egg he becomes funny, more familiar. Saying "my cousin" and "Butterbutts" and that Eg is insolent and Dunk should ".... Beat ut out of him".
    I think this shows us the true Brynden. Loving. Loyal. True to his family. I like that small glimpse of his private personality.
    Also, I think when Eg says, " you know who I am, Cousin." He means more than just he is Aegon. Due to the tendency for Targaryens to have prophetic dreams, combined with Maester Aemen mentioning he was in contact with Eg about the prophecy during the time Bloodraven was at the wall, it's likley that even at a young age Eg and Bloodraven and Young Maester Aemen had many conversations and at obe point may have thought Eg to be important to the prophesy and the dreams.
    Sorry that was run on. I was typing as it came to me.
    Love everything about your work!

  • @kimberlyporter9555
    @kimberlyporter9555 3 роки тому +27

    Back when I was a kid, I used to love Anne Rice. If she had taken time to plot any of the vampire novels after the first 3, and if she kept her editor, I would still be a fan of her work. I would never push GRRM. I trust that he's putting out a novel on par with all the rest. AR should have done the same. Now she retcons herself.

    • @espalier
      @espalier 3 роки тому +5

      GRRM should take allll the time he needs to keep up the quality he's written so far.

    • @dothrakidani358
      @dothrakidani358 3 роки тому +6

      All due respect..he could hurry the fk up too..just sayin... lol..

    • @kimberlyporter9555
      @kimberlyporter9555 3 роки тому +3

      @@dothrakidani358 LMAO. Okay, okay, that's not to say, I don't at times feel the same as you do. But it's not like he has writer's block. He's busy plotting out every damn thing. His world has grown into a universe. Also, I don't want a D&D ending. I WOULD FUCKING LOSE MY SHIT AGAIN. I'M SO INFURIATED BY THE SHOW I STOPPED WATCHING ALL SHOWS BECAUSE I FELT THE SHOWRUNNERS WOULD BETRAY ME LIKE THEY DID WITH GOT.

  • @tylercruse2402
    @tylercruse2402 3 роки тому +5

    Creepiest Stannis drawing I've seen is him, The Red Witch, & Davos in a bed. Mel has a satisfied look on her face & a fiery strap-on. Davos has a remorseful look upon his face! Stannis is stoic as ever.

  • @sit-insforsithis1568
    @sit-insforsithis1568 3 роки тому +13

    Bloodraven is my favorite character he is so mysterious, even tho I kinda want young griff to win

  • @tool9386
    @tool9386 3 роки тому +12

    If i recall, there were hints that Shiera Seastar was in a love triangle with Daemon and Brynden. George likes to use love triangles where women break the man's heart, since he himself was the broken heart one in a love triangle.

  • @patrickpaisley6175
    @patrickpaisley6175 3 роки тому +7

    Another great video! Blood raven is one of my favorite people to discuss. So many great details in Dunk and Egg books.

  • @SciFiCatGuy
    @SciFiCatGuy 2 роки тому +7

    I just got the audiobook of A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms, and it took a few chapters to get past hearing Viserys whining when Lloyd did the squeaky voice, but once I did it was great. He was perfect for doing the Dunk and Egg stories.

  • @cuttingwitjason7195
    @cuttingwitjason7195 3 роки тому +18

    "If she's smart she'll marry a fat inkeep or a burly blacksmith ", like Hotpie or Gendry? I never noticed that. I'm dumb sometimes.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +2

      yep that's one pretty obvious, but only a the second or third read. Definitely cute

  • @SpiralSine6
    @SpiralSine6 3 роки тому +8

    1:40:40 Martin has said that Shiera did have multiple lovers over her (known) life, with Bloodraven being her main partner.

  • @10bunks12
    @10bunks12 2 роки тому +2

    Blood Raven is my favorite character in ASOIAF. Love this video. Thanks for all your effort on this. Great channel

  • @devonwooten170
    @devonwooten170 3 роки тому +19

    Long live the heirs of Daemon Blackfyre the king of 7 kingdoms! True and rightful rulers of the Rhoynar, Andals, and the first men!

  • @MemphisCorollaS
    @MemphisCorollaS 2 роки тому +4

    The theory that Daemon Targ following a glamored Knettles/Leaf up to three eyes raven cave from the god’s eye lake after his final battle in the dance of the dragons is interesting. A line of Stark and Targaryen greensears being used by the northern children of the forest passing the role down sometimes to some of their own descendants would be an interesting twist. I can imagine bloodraven taking over for Daemon, and Daemon just being relieved that he can finally die after being trapped in the trees for so long with his restless chaotic spirit.

  • @devoleno
    @devoleno 3 роки тому +51

    Duuudes and Lady Dudes. LML tv is better than anything on cable

    • @jacobs8465
      @jacobs8465 3 роки тому +2

      Such great content right!?

    • @usuariopromedio963
      @usuariopromedio963 3 роки тому +1

      Hahahah LIKE

    • @dannyburns9850
      @dannyburns9850 2 роки тому

      Cable Tv ? Who can sit thru all the commercials ? No doubt this guy is dope with his expertise about symbolism , astrology and mythology.

  • @thelateescapist8266
    @thelateescapist8266 3 роки тому +2

    Didn't even know how much I wanted this stream. I was legit giddy when I got the notification. Thanks a billion LML!

  • @blackeyedlily
    @blackeyedlily 3 роки тому +11

    Missed the livestream, but this was another wonderful cast! I’m really enjoying Rhaegar’s Reading Corner. That big white chair he sits in even looks a bit throne like in my opinion. BTW, I have the same Targ/Stark t-shirt he wore in today’s video. Really, these recent videos and live streams have been excellent. All the hard work you put into both the research and the production really shows. I’m also looking forward to your upcoming Odin series.

    • @dothrakidani358
      @dothrakidani358 3 роки тому +1

      Agreed. I've been livin
      Free off his hard work. Finally paying him 5bucks a mth because he has earned that much and more. Best bedtime stories evah..

  • @maidmargaery156
    @maidmargaery156 3 роки тому +10

    Listening to this now 🙃 super timely since I just finished rereading The Mystery Knight

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +2

      oh sweet yes that's perfect!

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +2

      did you read it knowing Maynard Plumm was Bloodraven? Or did you figure it out? Or did I just tell you?

    • @maidmargaery156
      @maidmargaery156 3 роки тому +1

      @@DavidLightbringer Nah I knew already (probably read it in a Bloodraven wiki some time ago). But the moonstone brooch completely went over my head! You're right; it's probably enabling the glamour. Wonder how many of those glamour stones(?) are floating around 👀

  • @shinobifirecracker6671
    @shinobifirecracker6671 3 роки тому +8

    The man at the root of it all. Oh shit, no pun intended but that’s tight. Sorry I missed the hard work you put in live.

  • @autje1970
    @autje1970 3 роки тому +12

    One of the books next to Rhaegar is Return of the King. Coincidence? I think not.
    Great stream about one of the most fascinating and hard-to-qualify characters in literary history.

  • @fluencer
    @fluencer 3 роки тому +7

    "Not if you kill all the sons", I feel like one of the Reynes or Tarbecks secretly survived. And I like the theory that Bronn, is a Reyne. He has cat symbolism. Well whoever it is, that has got to come back and haunt the Lannisters.

  • @bensonrussell7232
    @bensonrussell7232 3 роки тому +5

    Sorry I missed it. Saw it half way through so I figured Id just wait till you finished and post it. But as always thank you, this next hit is for you. Take me on a journey lol

  • @derrisreaditbefore
    @derrisreaditbefore 3 роки тому +2

    Dang it - missed the live.
    Wonderful as always - I appreciate your time so much LML.

  • @mrittikmukherjee1347
    @mrittikmukherjee1347 2 роки тому +5

    Wouldn't it be ironic if the greatest king's guard (longest tribute in the book which Jamie was looking at) was also a king slayer stopping Aegon V from burning Rhaegar at Summerhall?

  • @kevinvest9693
    @kevinvest9693 3 роки тому +4

    Bloodraven and tywin are on the shortlist of most effective hands. A good ruler isnt necessary a good man

  • @christopherbarber5283
    @christopherbarber5283 3 роки тому +2

    this would've easily been by far the most interesting prequel hbo could have pursued. god damn, I love you, you beautiful bastard

  • @martinkrog5943
    @martinkrog5943 3 роки тому +3

    So good!
    So sad I keep missing these live, but absolutely love putting up my feet and listen to this after work, with a big skull of blood to twirl and sib from : )
    Garth will be with you, always

  • @jonhauge-evaldsson783
    @jonhauge-evaldsson783 3 роки тому +6

    Those weirwood bows and arrows! I do think they are guided by magic. Like skinchanging an arrow.
    Brandon Snow, the bastard half-brother of Torrhen Stark, King in the North, wanted to kill Aegon's dragons with weirwood arrows. I think weirwood channel magic power even when cut off from the tree.

  • @MysticaFaery
    @MysticaFaery 3 роки тому +2

    Cool stream, only managed to catch the first half yesterday so finished the rest today. Now I have been humming "reading Rhaegar" for two hours straight!

  • @PackLeader12690
    @PackLeader12690 2 роки тому +3

    Been listening to many of the Elric of Melnibone stories. Very cool, thanks for telling us about him!

    • @whyonthefall5373
      @whyonthefall5373 Рік тому

      It's good to see them being recognised. Safe to say George took some inspiration

  • @brandonlambert9768
    @brandonlambert9768 3 роки тому +6

    He's such a complex and interesting character. I want HBO to move forward with the Dunk & Egg series so we can see him in all his glory.

  • @susanbishop5349
    @susanbishop5349 3 роки тому +3

    the way I read the Dunk and Egg stories Egg as a boy always defended Blood Raven against his detractors. Then I don't remember reading anything else about their relationship until BR had the Blackfire kid beheaded through treachery when Egg was king.

  • @samanthamorris5340
    @samanthamorris5340 3 роки тому +2

    I LOVE that you put up the list of what you would be discussing. ❤️ so super helpful for me

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +1

      Right on thanks for the feedback! Trying to meet the more orderly-minded people halfway from my chaos realm lol

  • @veritasinvicta8128
    @veritasinvicta8128 2 роки тому +6

    Torrhen Stark's bastard brother cut three arrows from a weirwood with the intention to use sneaking into Aegon's camp slay the three dragons. Would it have worked had it come to pass? I doubt it but one never knows. Could Weirwood arrows be used against White Walkers?

  • @dirtygiraffe
    @dirtygiraffe 3 роки тому +7

    Odins ravens "spies" for him too. They fly around the world and tells him what's going on. Sounds like Bloodraven and Bran.

  • @steveandortudge
    @steveandortudge 3 роки тому +3

    The Sworn Sword is my favourite GRRM story. It's simultaneously the breeziest read but also the most focused thematically - the highest pounds per square-word if you will. Our friend George at the height of his powers

  • @tanksmoonchild
    @tanksmoonchild 3 роки тому +2

    As always. Your live streams are awesome. And dare I say getting better.

  • @rianbeegles3349
    @rianbeegles3349 3 роки тому +10

    Personally I think when creating Egg, GRRM used Arya as a template. They are very similar and they have quite a few parallels in their stories. I think the only things GRRM changed between them at the onset was that Egg didn't start out in his story being completely accepting of bastards and the common people and people from all walks of life like Arya already was. But they have incredibly similar personalities that are then being shaped differently through different circumstances. It's very interesting seeing how GRRM may have created some of his characters. :)

    • @TheeAmethystEmpress6589
      @TheeAmethystEmpress6589 3 роки тому +1

      I have also seen the parallels between Arya and The Hounds' journeys and those of Dunk and Eg. More so the similarities between Eg and Arya. I believe Eg has that same potential to go dark the way Arya has without a better direct influence than Eg has in Dunk. I think Grrm is intentionally drawing this parallel for us to help foreshadow Eg's potential actions surrounding the Summerhall tragedey.

    • @rianbeegles3349
      @rianbeegles3349 3 роки тому +2

      ​@@TheeAmethystEmpress6589 I think this is hinting at Arya's future, not Egg's, after all Arya is one of the main characters in the main series, not Egg (although Egg is very important to understanding what happened at Summerhall). I think this means her endgame will take us by surprise, that something "unlikely" will happen, which wouldn't be that surprising considering all of her swan symbolism also points to this, and she has a ton of swan symbolism. :P

  • @Caramelo23606
    @Caramelo23606 Рік тому +4

    My favorite part about the BS and Blood Raven feud is that BS got a hideously stupid name like Aegor Rivers and BR got the cool one of Brynden Rivers

  • @skaman1013
    @skaman1013 3 роки тому +1

    you're killing it man! we need more source materials!

  • @ZYXPQI
    @ZYXPQI 3 роки тому +1

    I like all of your streams but this was a huge favourite of mine.

  • @Nemisis1509
    @Nemisis1509 3 роки тому +3

    Perhaps Shiera and Bloodraven never married because she was his 'out' when it came to his 'destiny'; if Brynden Rivers had married Shiera Seastar and had children, he may have mellowed; and probably would never had gone North. Shiera knew this, so she refused him every time he faltered and asked.
    It's my own personal headcanon that it's Shiera, not Bloodraven, who is the Grand Conspirator behind the scenes. =D

  • @bryanr.1171
    @bryanr.1171 3 роки тому +17

    Idk if someone else suggested this but perhaps Shierra saw Bloodravens future (glass candle?) And knew marriage would keep him from his role bringing in Bran. Or maybe she just thinks 'fuck heteronormative practices' lol

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +4

      Oh good point, glass candles. Didn’t even think of that

  • @obviousalias132
    @obviousalias132 Рік тому +2

    What are your thoughts on Alys Rivers’s children somehow marrying into the Blackwoods leading to Bloodraven? I think that or they married into House Lothston (who as it should be noted became the lords of Harrenhal, Alys’s haunt, after the Strongs) leading to Mad Danelle. Do you think Bloodraven had a relationship, possibly romantic, with Mad Danelle?
    Building on your questions about the Stark kids all being wargs and why now; is it possible that Hoster’s mother, Catelyn’s grandmother, was a Blackwood? Hoster’s parents probably married soon after Aegon and Betha Blackwood around the same time Melantha Blackwood married Willem Stark. Could Bloodraven have facilitated these marriages?

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  Рік тому +1

      yes all of this is reasonable speculation, but aim not the sharpest on the Lothston / Harrenhal stuff to have an opinion

  • @damienblackfyre9965
    @damienblackfyre9965 3 роки тому +2

    Great video, love the KD reference!

  • @korinnastricke558
    @korinnastricke558 3 роки тому +1

    Awesome stream. Bloodraven is my favourite

  • @Gonzooo69
    @Gonzooo69 3 роки тому +1

    Great work my dude

  • @Baelor-Breakspear
    @Baelor-Breakspear 4 місяці тому +1

    Speaking of Tool I used to party at the mansion of the guy who did their cover art, Alex Grey his name was. Dude had a massive mansion and let people come and party there for ten bucks but you couldn’t drink or do hard drugs. He only let mushrooms and acid on his property. It was cool he did those parties every full moon I don’t know if he still does but honestly one of the better times I had when I was younger was at his mansion.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  4 місяці тому

      that's sick

    • @Baelor-Breakspear
      @Baelor-Breakspear 4 місяці тому

      @@DavidLightbringer yeah it was called cosm or something like that. Church of sacred mirrors I think is what he called these parties. They were pretty sick

  • @theoutlawjeezywales6217
    @theoutlawjeezywales6217 3 роки тому +1

    Aegon the Unworthy was basically the guy who is shits on his desk before leaving his job.

  • @iamza.
    @iamza. Рік тому +2

    I am watching this 2 years after it was posted. "Will Winds of Winter be released this year?" "Yes! I am optimistic!".....here in the future? hahahahahahahaha

  • @michaeltavizon8333
    @michaeltavizon8333 Рік тому +1

    Rewatch binge 🎉🎉🎉

  • @NephRainbows
    @NephRainbows 3 роки тому +3

    The real question I have about Egg is this: Where did he find the Targaryen clothes when he's living mostly hand to mouth with Dunk? Additional questions: Who carries giveaways of their royal identity while pretending to be a peasant? Did Lord Butterwell put his tailors to work to avoid Bloodraven's worse punishment?

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +1

      Yeah yeah they just took in one of Bloodraven’s spare outfits, exactly

  • @nadiasouthiere7908
    @nadiasouthiere7908 3 роки тому

    Yay! Love that character👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻😍Thanks for this Fabulous Stream LML, I ALWAYS appreciate when you post a video! Great Job👍👍🙏🏻😌🥰👌🏻🥰🙋🏼‍♀️🇨🇦

  • @void.sawyer
    @void.sawyer 3 роки тому +1

    GRRM just recently said he has left his cabin where he said he wouldnt be leaving until TWOW was finished so I'm super optimistic about it's "sooner rather later" release.

    • @marcusanark2541
      @marcusanark2541 2 роки тому

      Seeing these comments for years just make me want bash my head into a wall.

  • @downtown_clownybrown
    @downtown_clownybrown 3 роки тому +9

    😭LEAVE RHAEGAR ALONE!😭

    • @downtown_clownybrown
      @downtown_clownybrown 3 роки тому +5

      @Qꪊꫀꫀꪀ ᙃꪖꫀꪀꫀɾꪗડ Ʈꪖɾᧁꪖɾꪗꫀꪀ 『ɬꫝꫀ Mꪮɬꫝꫀཞ ꪮᎦ ᙃཞꪖᧁꪮꪀཧ』 yes mhysa

  • @olgaradzikowska1544
    @olgaradzikowska1544 3 роки тому +3

    Hello cool video. Could you pls give links to the art?

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому

      Oh shoot yeah. Bloodraven is Bella Bergolts and the other one I will look up and ad to the description

  • @ironreed2654
    @ironreed2654 3 роки тому +2

    Fear inoculum was done for years but delayed for label issues.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +1

      They still take a damn long time

    • @ironreed2654
      @ironreed2654 3 роки тому

      @@DavidLightbringer Agreed, weird to have stuff you remember as new become old

  • @Evilanious
    @Evilanious 3 роки тому +6

    Perhaps some comment on why utilitarians don't want to be conflated with machiavellians. While both let their actions be guided by a concern for the outcomes regardless of the means, what outcome they are trying to accomplish differs. Machiavelli seems to recommend that a Prince is ruthless and cunning so he can remain in power and isn't usurped by a rival. Utilitarians want to increase happiness of people (and often animals). There is a rather clear difference between doing what it takes for personal gain or glory or something like that and doing what it takes to improve the world. In addition, most actual utilitarians don't seem too eager to bite the bullet on the harsher sounding consequences of their theories. Their philosophical opponents believe that the consequences of their theories might sometimes lead to callousness or lack of scruples but I've not known too many utilitarians to go along with that. As an example, famous contemporary utilitarian Peter Singer mostly argues for donating to charity a lot if you have a first-world middleclass income or above and for treating animal well-being as a serious concern. As opposed to that, Machiavelli so fully bites the bullet on his the nastier sounding consequences of his theories that some people have claimed his work was probably satire. At least in his most famous work 'the prince', that is. I've heard from people who have read more of him that his tone isn't quite so dark in other works, but I've only read short selections of 'the prince' myself so I don't really know. In the context of asoiaf, Tywin for example is nowhere close to a utilitarian, but is extremely machiavellian. Tywin wipes his ass with the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest amount of people, his goals and ethics are those of a man raised in a feudal honor based society where people are to know their place. He wants to lead his own house to greatness, his vassals and lesser subjects to know their place or be kept their through violence and his enemies to fear him. Most of his cruelty and cunning does not appear to be because he thinks this will make the world better, but because it leads to more power for him and his house and it seems to him to natural and correct way for a lord to act. Varys might be closer to a utilitarian though in his case it seems more of a rationalization than a deeply held principle. His siding with the mad king over Rhaegar and anyone else, his assassination of Kevan and his scheming with Illyrio all suggest he has some more plain loyalty to Targaryans or Blackfyres and that he isn't above making the realm suffer through more war to get a preferred king on the throne.

    • @oxtheunlikelycontemplator2682
      @oxtheunlikelycontemplator2682 3 роки тому +4

      Tywin as a father and as a ruler seems to take the attitude of well probably many workaholic fathers. As long as his people/children are protected and provided for then he's doing right by them and in return they should do as he says. He doesn't care about anyone's emotional well being only their physical and material well being. And anyone that rebels is no longer of that protected class of, "me and mine" and are enemies to be eliminated. A good example of this is Cersei remembering when Tywin was cheered for more loudly by his people than the king but Rhaegar received an even warmer welcome. I believe her statement on that was, "even amongst his own people Lord Tywin Lannister was more respected than loved."

    • @oxtheunlikelycontemplator2682
      @oxtheunlikelycontemplator2682 3 роки тому +2

      All that to say Tywin definitely cares about providing peace and prosperity for "his people" but if you're on the other side you don't qualify.

    • @Evilanious
      @Evilanious 3 роки тому +4

      @UCXXq_CTkU_8fgxzRF9yVlaA Then I'm explaining it poorly. There may be a utilitarian or Hobbesian argument for letting Tywin rule. Some argument that goes that one strong leader, honorable or no, is better than a civil war. That argument makes some sense. But Tywin himself is just nowhere close to a utilitarian and he wouldn't care about any such argument. If his rule brings peace and prosperity for the peasants that is incidental to what he is trying to accomplish. We have seen in the books firsthand how he waged war in the riverlands. Letting Vargo Hoat, the mountain and Amory Lorch run amok did little to nothing for the war effort but it sure lead to a whole lot of superfluous murder and torture. In any case 'for house Lannister' really is the sticking point. House Lannister pretty straightforwardly has no utilitarian value. Utilitarians don't do things for any consequence and certainly not to advance particular houses, there is a specific consequence that they are aiming for: happiness. A consequence that Tywin hardly cares about when it comes to himself or his family, let alone for people and animals in general.

    • @Evilanious
      @Evilanious 3 роки тому +3

      @@oxtheunlikelycontemplator2682 sorry, missed this second comment. Well the utilitarians that I have read are pretty unequivocal about rejecting precisely that. They don't strive for personal happiness but for general happiness and tend to despise particularism of that kind. edit: sorry, conflated you with another commenter. What I said might not entirely apply.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +2

      EvilNiois really appreciate the discussion here, my thanks. Agree 100% on Tywin, what you’re saying makes sense. And that end goal is such a huge difference, since Martin seems to make a big deal about the difference between self sacrifice and predatory consumption of other people for power.

  • @parkerthomastobia6469
    @parkerthomastobia6469 3 роки тому +5

    Both Arya (in aSoS) and Bran (in aDwD) see the Weirwood roots and compare them (or mistake them) for pale serpents. Arya is walking through the BwB's lair while Bran is walking in the children's lair. Both come to see a figure in a throne of Weirwood (Beric and BR).
    My question is: what is the deal with the pale/white serpent/snake symbolism that BOTH of these characters share? You've talked about these scenes before and the mirroring between Beric and BR, but the white snake symbolism strikes me as important, as both character express the same thoughts. There's gotta be some symbolism behind this right?

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +2

      Well yes certainly! It’s a reference to the setup of Yggdrasil, which has a bunch of snakes amongst its roots, “more serpents than any witless fool knows” according to Odin, and above all one main serpent / dragon, Nidhoggr. That serpent is trapped by Yggy’s roots until Ragnarok. That equates to the greenseers in Bloodraven’s tradition escaping the wwnet at the end, which is what Ive predicted - Bran will download the greenseer hive mind and get it out of the trees.
      Going further, Bloodraven and Beric both mirror Odin symbolism with the hanging and one eye symbolism.

    • @parkerthomastobia6469
      @parkerthomastobia6469 3 роки тому +1

      @@DavidLightbringer I should have watched the Thor movies...dammit

  • @ryanotoole7076
    @ryanotoole7076 2 роки тому +1

    So interesting man love ur channel bro

  • @ramahan21
    @ramahan21 3 роки тому +4

    Brynden Rivers has a better flow than Brynden Targaryen. There is assonance and consonance in these two words. He probably kept it for marketing reasons.

  • @byakuyaaizen827
    @byakuyaaizen827 3 роки тому

    I'm just getting into ASOIAF and your videos are a great!
    Some symbolisms or references I'd have missed completely if it wasn't for you.
    Thanks and keep it up!

  • @bradlyclark8943
    @bradlyclark8943 6 місяців тому +1

    When did blood Raven first speak to TCOTF???

  • @sean5558
    @sean5558 2 роки тому +2

    Blooraven and Jon Snow have most colorful and interesting backstory

  • @siobhandoyle7099
    @siobhandoyle7099 3 роки тому +3

    Will there be parallels between the fates of Bloodraven and Tyrion given how each make significant “hard” choices for the success of their families and city-states but are then maligned and demonized by the population?

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +1

      That’s a really good competition actually! Tyrion isn’t nearly as hard though, he has more emotional issues. Perhaps Tyrion will grow into that kind of figure

    • @siobhandoyle7099
      @siobhandoyle7099 3 роки тому

      @@DavidLightbringer Poor Tyrion. I fear his end won’t be pretty. With all his self-doubts, he will never be satisfied.

  • @Drew_Thompson
    @Drew_Thompson 3 роки тому +1

    1:40:00 shiera keeps blood raven at arms length because she knows the prophecy and understands the consequences of getting pregnant.

  • @vorborinov4054
    @vorborinov4054 3 роки тому +4

    It's curious to me that Maester Aemon doesn't have much to say about Bloodraven - even though they went to the Wall at the same time & are/were family. Aemon mentions him once, to Sam & the idiot singer Daeron, but the way Aemon talks it's as if Bloodraven was someone he barely knew - & yet, he would have served under him when Bloodraven became lord commander. What is strange is that Aemon doesn't seem to have any special insight into the Others or Wights or the coming Long Night, & so if Bloodraven knew something he certainly didn't pass it on to Aemon.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +1

      good points, but I will point out that Aemon did recommend to Jon to read Colloquo Votar and was interested in Mel's claims about Lightbringer and AA, he knew the details of the prophecy

    • @vorborinov4054
      @vorborinov4054 3 роки тому +3

      @@DavidLightbringer No, that did occur to me as well but it makes me ask even more questions, Aemon seems to be (may be he is) giving a hint that he knows Jon is the Prince Who Was Promised - also Aemon touching Jon's face to get a sense of his looks, which Aemon had only done with close family previously, it's another hint that Aemon knows more about Jon than he lets on. Then in Jon's dream where he's clad in black ice, the gnarled hand that grabs his shoulder - that's Bloodraven - what is Bloodraven's connection to Jon? Of all the intrigues, that for me is the greatest one. If Ghost is a kind of personification of Bloodraven & is being warged the entire time, then what does it mean when Jon thinks that he & Ghost are like one? I've wondered occasionally whether Jon & Bloodraven will merge, like when Jon resurrects Bloodraven dies, & his life force goes into Jon. Sounds farfetched, but who knows.....

  • @Drew_Thompson
    @Drew_Thompson 3 роки тому

    1:11:00 turning into a mist is a trait of the irish tuatha de dannan, midir specifically does it to steal princesses.

  • @SingingSealRiana
    @SingingSealRiana 3 роки тому +4

    please, please cover season two of the rhegar show, I love part one, it i so brillantly nonsensical ^^

  • @kimberlyporter9555
    @kimberlyporter9555 3 роки тому +3

    @LUCIFERMEANSLIGHTBRINGER - i thought of something. The Baratheons are issues of House Strong who once were a part of the Starks. All the horny men are related to Garth the Green. The seeds are strong and so is their magic. It's why Targaryans when wedded to Starks or Strongs produce very healthy, strapping children and dragon riders. They didn't have to look like Valyrians to ride dragons. They were wargs. When Starks leave the cold, they become lusty horned men... like the Baratheons. I think it's the fact that all the God Kings of spring and summer were slain that brought on The Long Night (because like you said, the power of their blood caused a surge in the Weirwood net pushing out the White Walkers. Andal blood like that of the Lannisters does not keep the winds of winter at bay.
    Also, I think we have are three dragon riders. Jon is Rhaegar's third living son. Bran is Ned's third living child. And Daenerys is Aerys third living child. Sure, there may be stillbirths and miscarriages in between, but it's the living ones that count. First men blood is Godblood, the reason they lack immortality or long life is because they lay with mortals. It's why we're told the story of Godsgrief. I think it's implied that the Starks are Kings in everything but name. They rule out of duty.
    I often pondered why GRRM added the story of Arthur Dayne's sister being smitten by Ned Stark and when she found that not only did she lose her brother to the man she loved, but she had also lost the man he loved to duty, she became the falling star. Every King has one great, fiery love, and a cold one born of duty. Even Aerys has Joanna whom he desired and couldn't have and his sister which he hated. So Ned's Kingship is implied because his story is that of the Bloodstone Emperor and his two wives.
    Anyway, something should be said about the Strongs and the Starks. When they interbred with the Targaryens more dragons were born to them. As they died, so did the dragons. GRRM is implying he intends to right more about the Strongs and I think "House of the Dragon" will be the story of that.

  • @DewarSon
    @DewarSon 2 роки тому +2

    "Shaddap, Egg! Yo'daddy woulda been a s*** Hand!", is what Dunc would've bellowed... If not for that blasted boot of Egg's. Blood and bloody ashes🤦🏿
    On a more serious note though, Rivers was a no less than brilliant choice as Hand. And I'm a firm believer, until proven otherwise, that Egg, Aemon, and Bloodraven himself all colaberated in him ending up at the Wall. Targaryens are notorious for prophetic dreams, and Rivers was a Greenseer. Further to your Skinchanger references. Which leads me to believe Ser Maynard Plum is NOT a "diguise", but an actual Skinchange of Bloodraven's. Hodor much?!? Great vid, Lightbringer👍🏿

  • @ryansheskey276
    @ryansheskey276 2 роки тому +1

    Excellent taste in music!

  • @ericvague19
    @ericvague19 3 роки тому +13

    "Like Kevin Durant with a burner account"!? LMAO I'm dying over here!!!!

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +3

      I knew SOMEONE out there would get this most perfect of analogies... I mean it's a good call, right? Same energy? I was so happy when I thought to say it

    • @ericvague19
      @ericvague19 3 роки тому

      @@DavidLightbringer Totally. Exact same energy. Just passing the time while playing the game at a way higher level. When you said it it was immediately perfect. The notion of Westerosi burner accounts is real. lol.

    • @ikesweitzer9815
      @ikesweitzer9815 3 роки тому

      yea that was perfect!

  • @tylerbarrett6652
    @tylerbarrett6652 Рік тому

    I need a refresher... a review of the Targaryen family tree from Aegon, son of Rheanyra and Daemon who married.... his predecessor's daughter... so his half neice? Then we get Aenys who is the next king? and it's HIS son who became Aegon the Unworthy? Trying to remember what the family looked like at this time... but it's so big, I think we need a review.

  • @mehgancorker7242
    @mehgancorker7242 2 місяці тому

    You could also look at it as - the longer the war goes on, the more people will die. So by taking the opportunity to kill Daemon, he ends the war sooner and saves more lives.

  • @Ash.Crow.Goddess
    @Ash.Crow.Goddess Рік тому

    His character fascinates me. Druids are mysterious to us, still.

  • @sean5558
    @sean5558 Рік тому

    It’s insane how you mentioned he may be emo or even goth since The thumbnail gives an gothic vibe to Bloodraven reminding me of movie The Crow ( The Crow-Three Eyed Crow) and ( Brandon Lee-Brynden Rivers)

  • @asasieger9962
    @asasieger9962 3 роки тому +8

    I wonder if when we see the tragedy at Summerhall in future Dunk and Egg books there will be any parallels between the death of Egg and Duncan's role in saving the Targaryens and Jaime and Aerys. Maybe Egh goes crazy and plans to sacrifice all his kids and Dunk intervening and "betraying" Egg to save the family.

    • @williamwhitfield6225
      @williamwhitfield6225 3 роки тому +1

      I’ve always thought the tragedy at Summerhall was not a accident but a intentional sacrifice ritual Egg was attempting to hatch a dragon egg.

    • @forevermarked5826
      @forevermarked5826 3 роки тому

      Well George plan WAS fo do Winter, Fire and blood 2, then another Dunk and Egg, then Dream.of spring.. but look what's happening w Winter and George just Made NEW deals and New projects. On top of another show series, video game, and other things. He has so much things like wtf is he doing?!?! And now the fact he just said oh he fell way behind and how hes leaving the cabin, when he swore he wasn't leaving the cabin until hes done w.winter..
      Wtf....unless he is about to surprise us but not looking good. But yeah we will NEVER get Dream of spring! Song of ice and fire will never be finished. Dunk and egg most likely also. We will be LUCKY if we get Winter and Fire and Blood 2. That's most likely the best outcome we can hope for...

  • @crastersson5762
    @crastersson5762 3 роки тому +3

    Praise be to Rhaegar!

  • @hinakhodiyara7883
    @hinakhodiyara7883 Рік тому +1

    Nice one. Thanks :)

  • @CrimsonTemplar2
    @CrimsonTemplar2 3 роки тому +1

    Blessings of the Seven be upon Andrea.

  • @zebulonshiffert5617
    @zebulonshiffert5617 3 роки тому +3

    Who taught bloodraven to use his three eyes? Thanks for the great video lml

  • @BlueYiperoo
    @BlueYiperoo Рік тому +1

    Hey, Debbie Rivers here. 😊

  • @Slechy_Lesh
    @Slechy_Lesh 11 місяців тому +1

    If Bittersteel is an Abel - Abel Rivers - doesn't that make Bloodraven Cain?

  • @jasonhenderson7606
    @jasonhenderson7606 3 роки тому +2

    I wonder why BR didn't change his name from Rivers to Targ after being legitimized

    • @timtheskeptic1147
      @timtheskeptic1147 2 роки тому +1

      It was a flex, "guess who's legitimate now, assholes?"

  • @jonmuaddib4813
    @jonmuaddib4813 3 роки тому +4

    Great stream as always Lml. R the Odin vids gonna be streams or a part of the mythical astronomy vids? Also u should check out some stories in the Quran as well as the Islamic belief of judgement day and the signs of judgement day cuz there is surprisingly a lot of parallels between asoiaf and Islam.

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +3

      Oh those will be produced videos... do you any links to videos or analysis along the lines of what you’re talking about?

  • @mattperyman
    @mattperyman Місяць тому

    “The other…. If the gods are good, she’ll forget she was a Stark, she’ll marry a burly blacksmith or fat faced innkeep…” such an obvious reference to Gendry and Hot Pie, why and how could Jamie know about them and Arya? It seems too intentional to be a coincidence

  • @vde1846
    @vde1846 3 роки тому +1

    Good one!

  • @yogadork_namaste
    @yogadork_namaste 2 роки тому +1

    I'm also a tool, a perfect circle and pusifer fan.. Maynard, like George works on many projects. It's all good.

  • @anitarecount5081
    @anitarecount5081 3 роки тому +1

    Bobby B is still down there?! How long could it possibly take to sweep one crypt?!

    • @DavidLightbringer
      @DavidLightbringer  3 роки тому +1

      he only does a little work and then he just starts drinking

  • @Fergieluna12
    @Fergieluna12 3 роки тому +1

    Bloodraven reminds me of Octavian (Augustus)