Weaves look better but damn now we have some actual evidence that stringers are stronger... Great video thanks for taking the time to do all this testing I’m sure everyone appreciates it 🙏
This popped on UA-cam today. The main reason that stringers are stronger is because each stringer normalizes the previous bead. This means that the grain structure within each bead becomes small roundish grains. Forming a tight chain. Weaving tends to give a jagged structure called columnar crystals. There is also less chance of the formation of hydrogen pockets, which can lead to hydrogen induced cracking. The test used on oil platforms in cold environments like those in the North Sea is COTD (Crack Tip Open Displacement). This is where a small notch to simulate a crack is put into a material. The material is cyclic loaded like bending a can back and forth. This is done to replicate wave motion. After a number of days, the specimen is measured to see how far the crack has run and also to see how much it has opened. The tighter the grain, the better are the results. Sorry if too technical. Love the videos by the way, keep them coming.
I’m not sure what you’re doing with your arms but usually you tend to do a “windshield wiper” motion rather than your arm moving horizontally so it causes your bead to curve a bit
As a CWI I love seeing someone do a legit test like this. I hear from so many welders that "there's no difference" and this is a great video to show them
Also stringers has less thermal deformation due to shrinking - only the last string connects both material "coasts" to pull it together. For high pressure steam piping (heat treatment to release tension, X-rays tested) I've seen strings only. There is a good reason why those critical welds (where human life depends on it) are forced to be strictly a string only. For those critical applications whole weld procedure has to be tested and certified before applied on site.
Terry dodson it was not an honest test to hold your weld metal at 350 or below the stringer passes had less heat an more time to cool if you would of stopped your weave passes about half way an let them cool back to 350 degrees an then finished your weld especially when you were over half way through the weld . There's notably way more heat in a weave pattern especially as you get closer to your cap. I have been a welder for over 35 years ,an stringer verses weave has always been a debate over with was best .most companies I have worked will not let you run weaves over a certain size most want stringers .Really good test though never have seen one so done by the aws labs before nice job,enjoyed the video.
FYI weaves are used in the field with certain applications to stress relief the previous pass (smaw). Weaving is also faster production with smaw. Put two welders welding pipe. If one runs stringers and the other weaves, the weaves will finish faster every time. Seems to burn hotter which makes sense with all the local heat.
I'm a hobbiest welder but also an engineer so I'm really geeking out on this data. This is super educational and well done. I was a fan of weaving with my little MIG until today. You changed my thinking. Will add this to my playlists and add it to my personal favorites list as well.
i'm the same, welding 10mm thick is a big day for me, mostly 6mm 3mm stuff. also i've never seen a mig set leave a slag cover like that before, is that the wire type or flux coating or something?
Pass 4 labeled weave when pass was stringer. then weave was labeled as a stringer. But I absolutely love the welding, the cross section, the testing, everything was friggin amazing.
Yea don’t know much about either both looked to be about the same but noticed it was labeled wrong very quick after I noticed stringer was one line and weave was a wider pass
This was a great reminder. I’m about to weld up four 40’ tall wind generation towers that ‘break’ at the base to lay over for repairs. The spec is for 16 tonnes dynamic load. I’m going to be making up several of this type of joint and am glad for the reminder. I’m a farmer and not a welder by trade so these videos are real life savers!
ME in training here. We covered this type of testing last semester in my materials course. Very interesting to see practical applications for it. One thing that a super rigorous experimenter might do to further reinforce the results would be to run the tests on several sets of samples, all welded by different people, just to make sure that any individual technique variation would be averaged out. Cool video!
@@Farlig69 You're testing the weld strength, so you want the weld bead to be in the middle of the specimen. Which means perpendicular specimen. There would be no point in testing pure weld metal. The plate is a known material, with known properties. The weld is not. You would not do test with different orientations. Not only that, but as long as the metal is in the middle, it wouldn't matter.
Thank You, There aren't enough video's about the higher end welding applications. We don't have a lab where I work, so we send off samples to be tested for WPS docs. So this is a great learning tool. One of the larger companies recently added a requirement that on every WPS ( welding procedure specification ) must state that no bead be larger than 3 rods wide. If your using 1/8" that means that the single stringer bead can be no wider than 3/8". Thanks again.
I’m officially the world’s newest newbie welder and I didn’t even know there was an age old argument... I still found the video absolutely mesmerising. Well done, more suspense than most TV dramas, thank you.
I am a quality technician at an aluminum extrusion plant doing a lot of tensile test every day. I was totally geeking out during your test segment. Thank you for including that! Very interesting and fascinating
Worked as a metallurgist apprentice for while doing similar tests at a welding R & D company...I thought everyone knew the weaves were all look... BTW...your buddies at that lab have some nice toys. We focused alot on gas mixes. So fully controlled heat input and ambient. Fully controlled weld instruments and weld metals, fluxes and/or gasses. The weld samples were even prepped at specific sizes. The welder would run root to cap at specs in a tent and the sample was immediately placed in liquid nitrogen. From there a certain amount went into a gas analyzer, some we'd put in epoxy which would freeze the gasses escaping from the weld, and of course we'd use some for the tests conducted in this video, including the acid etching. People love the epoxy. The visual effect of seeing the escaping gas helps even the old welders put something they've been told their whole career exists into reality. Fun stuff. The welding and the testing.
This is really really really good - good round-up of the just about all the basics - of welding, testing and understanding where weld properties come from - and I express this personal opinion from being a trained metallurgist, Ph.D. level scientist whose investigation was welds, and a practicing welder doing structural steelwork.
@@deconteesawyer5758 I am a commercial welder, mostly. I frighten most "in suits" types too much. Last weld I did boat hull repair they do 6013 wide-weave, I tried for quick reminder then switched to,7018 stringer. Works well for me. You can reach 150A v-up T-fillet 7018 if you stringer - and I don't believe you can get anywhere near that if you wide-weave (?)
@@deconteesawyer5758 This is excellent very objective evaluation. The answer is known, but they are displaying it all for you to see. A truth does not mind being questioned; a lie responds with ferocious anger trying to prevent anyone examining it. These people are surely being most generous inviting a truth to be both questioned and examined.
Thankyou, Very good and Scientific Data. I understand a bit better now how internal "soak" temperature can soften welds. The weave up near the top was quite excessive (and I expected inclusions there) but putting more metal down in one pass shows that is NOT better in the long run. The weave went down faster, BUT it was an in-effective weld and may fail in service, (depending on the purpose and specifications for the weld) my boss is always saying that I have to do the job "Faster" but this shows that this is not the "Right" way to do it.
Thank you for this. I am an uncertified welder, mechanic, fabricator, jack of all trade, master of a few. I was taught weave, on everything, I have used both, stringer mainly for vertical and overhead, but weave on everything else. This will change the way I weld a lot. Again, thank you!
When I was doing D1.1 root/multi I always did stringer. What I did for the cert and what I kept doing. I was lucky enough to have Dennis Wright as a teacher. (Writer of the AWS GMAW process)
Man that's awesome. I would think that it would be common sense that stringers are stronger, but maybe I'm being full of myself. Anyway, you're lucky to have been taught by that guy.
Thanks for getting to the point. Way too many video creators these days talk for the first 3 minutes without actually covering the content. Manufactures using primarily string welds in production finally makes sense.
This vidjiou is a very infomative one. Total awesomeness. I hope you are going to continue comparing these two techniques also with other welding methods. I work in a shipyard, and the vessel structure welders aren't even allowed to weave. Now I can definitely understand why :D In a business where the structural welds will not be visible, the only thing that matters is strength. I salute you!
This was really interesting; my instructors back in my active college days didn't have a charpy machine, only tensile and u bend test rigs (this was back in the the early '90's), so seeing the same results with much more accurate testing equipment was awesome. Thanks for doing this, as well as confirming my faith in dual shield welding as (for the most part) the best of world's for structural work.
This is a phenomenal video! Thanks for putting this together. I'm sure there's a lot of hobby welders like myself that would love to see the results on thinner steel (say 3/16") with just gas shielding.
A great demo. I have gone through this myself at work. Lots of testing and qualification to meet Charpy requirements of the oil sands in Alberta Canada. We even had Lincoln visit us while testing their LA-71 wire to see what we could achieve. Keep in mind everything is thermally stress relieved which makes it harder to achieve. This knowledge is as old as dirt though. Stringer beads reduce heat input but also has a grain refining effect on the previous beads your are welding over. Also take a look at the essential variables table of a code book. They all limit bead width. Basically if you want to weave you need to qualify it.
nothing was laid to rest here ! he butchered is weaves by stretching them beyond beliefs ! what's wrong with all of you, no one noticed ? it's like hey lets see which car is the fastest with the same driver testing both but on one test the guy tries blindfolded and everyone says yeah well that other car sure was a lot faster than the one you tested blindfolded, that settles that age old question !! lol i could copy and paste that answer of mine to at least every second person...not worth my time,already wasted too much !
The cap was ground off, but it still dumped a massive amount of heat into the part. I worked in a fab shop that built bridge beams. One of the "ol timer" types decided he was gonna weave instead of stringers, regardless of what the specs called for. They were told the steel would have to be scrapped (or used for shorter pieces if possible) because weaving dumped too much heat into the part. The beams had to be cut back 100mm to remove the tainted steel.
My instructor taught me to lay the root and fill with stringer, root being wider often, and cap with weave, I suppose that combines the strength of a stringer and the fancy eye piece of the elustrious weave
I've been welding for over45 yrs now. Union Millwright in my younger days, transitioned to union Ironworker. I picked stringers before you tested. We were always taught to run stringers.
In all my years as an ASME certified welder, I've never seen a GMAW/FCAW welding procedure with a 1/2" root opening for 1/2" plate. You can keep your interpass temp at 350F but your heat input from weaving will cause your cracking and lack of fusion problems. Most ASME customer required weldments would require a Joules requirement formula for heat input. Jobs and material to be used in environments of -20F would certainly require this.
@@dohabandit I agree. The issue of weaving in the middle portion of the weld as well as the cap pass. still presents problems with lack of fusion in the sidewall as well as the previous pass. My response is predicated on those who are welding under a certified weld procedure. For those in other welding circumstances, you do what is best for your particular need, but I believe stringers are the best for penetration and fusion ( if weld parameters are set right).
Awesome video and test. Reminded me of teaching welding in the lab and teaching Metallurgy in the other lab alongside. In the end Heat soak and input is always greater packing on layers with a weave pattern. Get in and get out, applies with any process and any filler. Multiple hot consistent passes win hands down. We could pass test in all ways with tight, fused metal over slower fancy swipes!
I truly appreciate the opportunity for these vicarious trainings. I do wish the presentation were not as fast paced. But they are detailed and clear. The greatest advantage is that I can repeat the videos often.
Great video. To understand just how each weld affected the steel, a base line test would be beneficial. Test a sample of an un-welded section of the same material. Keep up the great work.
I totally agree. A baseline from each coupon was necessary to know the starting point. They measure the end up points, but they don't know how far they deviated from the starting point. So what do they really know?
The base metal, A36 in this case, has standardized properties and values. Testing the base metal would only serve the purpose of verifying that the steel mill wasn't cheating.
Great vid. I've never welded in my life nor plan to. I literally knew nothing about welding but after watching your one video I know something about weaves and stringers, tolerances, testing , how the samples are cut and to switch gloves when you switch hands.
So a little tid bit on switching gloves hes wearing 2 different gloves, one is thicker protects from heat more (usually used with stick welding) and the other is thinner (usually used in tig welding) for more fine motor control. In case you didn't know why he was switching gloves when switching hands
The last time that I put _that_ much effort into analyzing a joint - was when the dispensary was closed and I had to buy a bag in a parking lot from a dude named Bort. (EDIT: Yeah, you read that right: Bort.)
My weld instructor only taught weaving for vertical welds. After each pass he had taught us to squelch it to prevent excessive heat. On the state certification we tested one weld in each position for each machine we wanted certified on. He taught walking the cup with the Tig and straight welds for everything else. I was taught back in 1994 and 1995 though, so thats been 25 years ago. I got state certified and never used it other than fixing broke stuff around the farm. I see a lot of bad habits being passed on as "secrets" on youtube channels, from people doing circles with welding rods, to walking the cup with mig welders. I was also taught to only ever make a bead longer than an inch every other inch if the item needs to be air tight or water tight. To save on welding rods unless you are building up a shaft or a surface with weld to be cut down to size.
Gret technical vid and explanations about weaves vs stringers. For the importance of toughness, you gotta go stringer. Worked in rig shop, one new guy got bored and weaved up the side of mast joint... got fired... he was mouthy as heck... but he had no idea about how stingers refine that microstructure into small grain growth, and keep it small, the weaves are too soft and mast would fail. Man did he swear, only lasted about 4 hours... on that job.
Hell yea I learned something, and I didn't even have to pay ya! Thanks. Seriously though, I was surprised that the weave capped out first. Keeping an eye on interpass temps I would've bet that the stringers ran cooler.
My gut expected no significant difference. I've always contended you should use what best suits the situation to give the minimum of 'mistakes' in the process and good gas cover. I always leaned to stringer mostly because it's faster. Learned something here. Thanks!
I love the science behind this and the detail to the info, but sometimes I wonder why I watch videos like this when all my welding is just weekend warrior projects lol.
Randomly stumbled here, not a welder. I'm a machinist. It is pretty cool seeing the test preformed though. I work in a small fixturing and repair shop owned by a large testing and research company. They do all kinds of tests like the tensile, fatigue, charpy, torque and any kind of custom test the costomer wants. Temps ranging from -350 all the way up to over 2000 degrees fahrenheit. We never see the tests or the testing frames. Just make the parts, repair or replace anything. Ship it out to the parent company and start the next job. Theyre super secretive about it all. I have repaired some of the instrom equipment as well. I only know that because they have the company name engraved or stamped into it. I'm sure it's cheaper for me to do it than to buy a new wedge grip or something. They just pay our wage and keeps the lights on since it's all technically in house. We also make some of the test samples for GE or Boeing Ford or whoever when the main shop gets a little behind.
Awesome video! Would you please do one for the other styles of beads, like for the e, triangles etc? It would be nice to see the hierarchy of strength in the different weld bead styles. Thank you for doing this video!
What does any of this mean? Where am I? How did I get here? I was watching chickens in a coop 2 minutes ago. UA-cam.... What ya doin? But all jokes aside, I think I learned a lot from this, while not even knowing the first thing of anything welding or metal. Lot's of knowledge on display here, good quality.
@@MaineHomeShop Aye, now I can tell _Strings_ from _Weaves._ And know there's some MatheMagics™ going on under them. All *Very* interesting stuff. I don't own a welder. Haven't held one in years. And this vid is going in *Deep.* I don't think my mind can handle science of this magnitude! What I'm saying is: _Chickens are more my speed, right now._ :P [Edit: UA-cam doing it's double spacings thing again....]
Yes i had my welding tested many years ago here in Canada and the teachings at that time was to never weave because it mixes impurities into the pool of malting metal and weakens your welding process. i did the welder fitters/ pipe course in the mid 90's and passed all my bend tests and that bend test on concave and convex pipe. we would fail if we did a weave weld for our tests back then. Pressure pipe was 6010 root and 7018 Stringers for the filler and cover passes, I remember for my cover passes the stringers looked like one weld but it was 3 passes Horizontal 3/8 plate was scratch start TIG Root and 7018 filler and cover. Even vertical and over head stick is 6010 root up hill and 7018 filler, stringers and cover stringers, I found it was easy for me, it all has to do with prep setup and heat settings. I nice when you heat is correct because the slag fall off on it own as it cools.
Nice Esab Rebels. Got me the 205 ic AC/DC. Absolutely impressed with it. As for the welding. In my expierence as a pressure pipe welder, it's not really a debate as which is better. It's about procedure. Travel speed is critical, interpass temp is critical. As well as staying within the codes for weld width. If you travel too slow your overall heat input gets past the allowable tolerances and you are welding out of procedure. So I dunno if that annoys anyone, but it's my reality. Cheers.
It's funny watching this. When you first start out all this seems new. I've been in the field now 5years now and it all seems second hand now. Practice makes perfect and it gets easier.
Very informative...but always knew the case for weaving was a no no and has been outlawed in the railways since i can remember over my 30 yr career. The old boys knew there shit no doubt about it!
Lol so what are you welding on on the railways LOL and what type of Steel is it yeah those really guys knew how to turn a one-hour job into 16 hours with overtime LMFAO
@@warrenhall8569 It is called ethics. No mention of rushing was stated or implied. Fucking off, and malingering on the job certainly were implied. The idea of a fair days pay for a fair day's work flies in the face of the diametrically opposed stance of seniority pay and retention cited. Edit: Folks like you are why they make punching the time clock at either end of the building every fifteen minutes a job requirement to keep you from sleeping on the job as night parking lot watchman.
I only guessed stringers, and I guessed right. I haven't been welding long enough to have the experience to make an informed judgment, but I'm happy that my wild guess was correct.
This is a good video looking at the differences in the weld metal properties. However, why didn't y'all look into side/root/face bend testing? From my understanding, these are common qualification tests.
Great video dude! Love the science behind our welds! , However I'm in a structural shop and procedure does not allow weaving do to the sure fact too much room for error to trap slagg
Thanks for the video! No surprise that stringer has better mechanical properties than the wave one. You could even have bigger values of the charpy v-notch test, if you had laid the final run in the middle of the weld. Thus you do heat treatment of the HAZ (heat affected zone), which is in the base material and where are the highest values of hardness. Once again thanks for the great video.
Do it again with 7018 1/8th rod. Everyone seems to weld pipe especially there cap with a wide weave. I run stringers myself. Curious on the differences
Yeh but you forgot the ... And you should have ... Comments aplenty. The only time you should be weaving is Saturday night after the pub shuts. I might be tempted to weave a cap if it's non critical work, sculpture etc.
Thank you for an informative video! Too bad you didnt take the x-ray at first to get an overview of the sludge. Eitherway it shows me that i'll need to enhace my welding and do stringers instead. Again; thank you. Greetings from Norway.
Critical note: On the tensile test, the stringer failed in a ductile manner with the line of failure basically horizontal. On the weave sample, the almost 45 degree line of failure indicates a brittle material. Why? Because ductile materials fail in the tension plane, while brittle materials fail in the shear plane. If you rotate a tiny cross section of a tensile test specimen 45 degrees that is the state of max shear. Look up Mohr's circle if you're curious. I'm actually quite surprised he didn't touch on that. Haven't watched V-notch yet, though.
almost every tensile test will break at a 45 degree angle. if it does not do that it could indicate a premature origin point. in that sample it was probably a massive slag line in the weld near the cap because of the giant weave taken while capping the weld because of lack of penetration. by the time he was welding on the other toe of the weld the puddle had already cooled to the point that he was just piling weld metal on top of the base metal (lack of penetration). it would have been interesting to see a cross section of the weave to check for non fusion near the cap of the weave weld.
Weaves look better but damn now we have some actual evidence that stringers are stronger... Great video thanks for taking the time to do all this testing I’m sure everyone appreciates it 🙏
spoiler! lol
Yup. I had the same thinking and today my mind was blown.
I don't know why, but I wanted the weaves to win lol
He also was doing single bead passes with the weave compared to multiple with the stringer.
Also looks like he’s using fluxcored process so weaving might be stronger on different processes like gtaw
This popped on UA-cam today. The main reason that stringers are stronger is because each stringer normalizes the previous bead. This means that the grain structure within each bead becomes small roundish grains. Forming a tight chain. Weaving tends to give a jagged structure called columnar crystals. There is also less chance of the formation of hydrogen pockets, which can lead to hydrogen induced cracking. The test used on oil platforms in cold environments like those in the North Sea is COTD (Crack Tip Open Displacement). This is where a small notch to simulate a crack is put into a material. The material is cyclic loaded like bending a can back and forth. This is done to replicate wave motion. After a number of days, the specimen is measured to see how far the crack has run and also to see how much it has opened. The tighter the grain, the better are the results. Sorry if too technical. Love the videos by the way, keep them coming.
I’m just happy when I can get a arc established and make a straight line.
Same!!
sniperdoug1969 and white
YEAP!!!!!!!!
On a mig? You have trouble making an arc?
I’m not sure what you’re doing with your arms but usually you tend to do a “windshield wiper” motion rather than your arm moving horizontally so it causes your bead to curve a bit
That's why my welding instructor, which was formerly an aerospace welder, said there's no place for that fancy looking shit and just weld straight.
LawF250 you mean formerly ?
@@business9854 Yeah, well I'm not perfect at grammar. My welding is better😂😂
LawF250 haha. Cheers!
LawF250 aerospace welder that shit sounds crazy
@@LawF250 Q: What do you say to a person who can't read, or write well?
A: Nice weld.
Stringers = Stronger Weaves = Weaker the first letters are the same so its easier to remember.
@@mail-qh2qc weaves are worse for joint pain.
Depends on the kind of stress and load that the weld has to withstand.
Man... What a spoiler. I wanted to watch the whole 30 minutes before I found out.
Very well said👍👍
Well said, man 😂
As a CWI I love seeing someone do a legit test like this. I hear from so many welders that "there's no difference" and this is a great video to show them
it is purely because of the heat buildup? i wonder if you weaved but started from the center and welded out would that change?
Also stringers has less thermal deformation due to shrinking - only the last string connects both material "coasts" to pull it together.
For high pressure steam piping (heat treatment to release tension, X-rays tested) I've seen strings only. There is a good reason why those critical welds (where human life depends on it) are forced to be strictly a string only. For those critical applications whole weld procedure has to be tested and certified before applied on site.
Weaving for superficial looks, stringers for core tensile strength. Great video. 👍
So do stringers up to your last pass, then do one weave to make it look fancy.
Terry dodson it was not an honest test to hold your weld metal at 350 or below the stringer passes had less heat an more time to cool if you would of stopped your weave passes about half way an let them cool back to 350 degrees an then finished your weld especially when you were over half way through the weld . There's notably way more heat in a weave pattern especially as you get closer to your cap. I have been a welder for over 35 years ,an stringer verses weave has always been a debate over with was best .most companies I have worked will not let you run weaves over a certain size most want stringers .Really good test though never have seen one so done by the aws labs before nice job,enjoyed the video.
@@terrydodson12 The fact that some welding certifications do not allow weaves tells me all i need to know about them
@@terrydodson12 time is money 🤑
FYI weaves are used in the field with certain applications to stress relief the previous pass (smaw).
Weaving is also faster production with smaw. Put two welders welding pipe. If one runs stringers and the other weaves, the weaves will finish faster every time. Seems to burn hotter which makes sense with all the local heat.
I'm a hobbiest welder but also an engineer so I'm really geeking out on this data. This is super educational and well done. I was a fan of weaving with my little MIG until today. You changed my thinking. Will add this to my playlists and add it to my personal favorites list as well.
i'm the same, welding 10mm thick is a big day for me, mostly 6mm 3mm stuff. also i've never seen a mig set leave a slag cover like that before, is that the wire type or flux coating or something?
Wint3rsmith He’s running duel shield, flux core wire but also 75/25
Must be Andrew Luck !
making mistakes with greg sent me here and i can see why he respects your efforts. Thanks a ton. freezer'
Pass 4 labeled weave when pass was stringer. then weave was labeled as a stringer.
But I absolutely love the welding, the cross section, the testing, everything was friggin amazing.
yeah around 8 minutes they're labeled backwards i noticed too
Good, I’m not going crazier then I already am.
Yea don’t know much about either both looked to be about the same but noticed it was labeled wrong very quick after I noticed stringer was one line and weave was a wider pass
yup
They really need to sort this out
This was a great reminder. I’m about to weld up four 40’ tall wind generation towers that ‘break’ at the base to lay over for repairs. The spec is for 16 tonnes dynamic load. I’m going to be making up several of this type of joint and am glad for the reminder. I’m a farmer and not a welder by trade so these videos are real life savers!
Jokes on you, I was pissed off before I clicked on this video.
That's my secret captain. I'm always pissed off.
ME in training here. We covered this type of testing last semester in my materials course. Very interesting to see practical applications for it. One thing that a super rigorous experimenter might do to further reinforce the results would be to run the tests on several sets of samples, all welded by different people, just to make sure that any individual technique variation would be averaged out. Cool video!
Exactly, this & several samples testing tensile in different directions as well - parallel to the weld & perpendicular.
@@Farlig69 You're testing the weld strength, so you want the weld bead to be in the middle of the specimen. Which means perpendicular specimen. There would be no point in testing pure weld metal.
The plate is a known material, with known properties. The weld is not. You would not do test with different orientations. Not only that, but as long as the metal is in the middle, it wouldn't matter.
that hammer has to have some impressive microsecond reading
IMO when weaving one side cools down before you come back to it and that's a problem too
Thank You, There aren't enough video's about the higher end welding applications. We don't have a lab where I work, so we send off samples to be tested for WPS docs. So this is a great learning tool. One of the larger companies recently added a requirement that on every WPS ( welding procedure specification ) must state that no bead be larger than 3 rods wide. If your using 1/8" that means that the single stringer bead can be no wider than 3/8". Thanks again.
Best part was when you switched hands to level up the weld - I've never seen that before and I learned something new! Thanks!
I’m officially the world’s newest newbie welder and I didn’t even know there was an age old argument... I still found the video absolutely mesmerising. Well done, more suspense than most TV dramas, thank you.
I am a quality technician at an aluminum extrusion plant doing a lot of tensile test every day. I was totally geeking out during your test segment. Thank you for including that! Very interesting and fascinating
Wow. That was amazing. Thanks for sharing. Next up. Rod vs wire.
just add in TIG and oxy acetylene welding just for good measure. would be fun to see the results of the different types of welding.
Always keep your stick on the ice and your rod in a heated quiver! ;-)
@@WBush-uc9pe Was that a little AVE added in there? But he's talking about a vice not ice and he isn't talking about a stick.
@@mancelprince7426 see Red Green.
Yes, lets see multiple types!
Worked as a metallurgist apprentice for while doing similar tests at a welding R & D company...I thought everyone knew the weaves were all look...
BTW...your buddies at that lab have some nice toys.
We focused alot on gas mixes. So fully controlled heat input and ambient. Fully controlled weld instruments and weld metals, fluxes and/or gasses. The weld samples were even prepped at specific sizes.
The welder would run root to cap at specs in a tent and the sample was immediately placed in liquid nitrogen. From there a certain amount went into a gas analyzer, some we'd put in epoxy which would freeze the gasses escaping from the weld, and of course we'd use some for the tests conducted in this video, including the acid etching.
People love the epoxy. The visual effect of seeing the escaping gas helps even the old welders put something they've been told their whole career exists into reality.
Fun stuff. The welding and the testing.
Is there a term to search to find the offgassing epoxy photos? I'd like to see what that looks like, but Google only shows JB weld 😆
This is really really really good - good round-up of the just about all the basics - of welding, testing and understanding where weld properties come from - and I express this personal opinion from being a trained metallurgist, Ph.D. level scientist whose investigation was welds, and a practicing welder doing structural steelwork.
You had me right up to that last bit, (practicing welder doing structural welding).
@@deconteesawyer5758 I am a commercial welder, mostly. I frighten most "in suits" types too much. Last weld I did boat hull repair they do 6013 wide-weave, I tried for quick reminder then switched to,7018 stringer. Works well for me.
You can reach 150A v-up T-fillet 7018 if you stringer - and I don't believe you can get anywhere near that if you wide-weave (?)
@@RichardSmith-ms6hh Prodigious bullshitter mostly. Frightening indeed.
@@deconteesawyer5758 This is excellent very objective evaluation. The answer is known, but they are displaying it all for you to see.
A truth does not mind being questioned; a lie responds with ferocious anger trying to prevent anyone examining it.
These people are surely being most generous inviting a truth to be both questioned and examined.
Thankyou, Very good and Scientific Data. I understand a bit better now how internal "soak" temperature can soften welds. The weave up near the top was quite excessive (and I expected inclusions there) but putting more metal down in one pass shows that is NOT better in the long run. The weave went down faster, BUT it was an in-effective weld and may fail in service, (depending on the purpose and specifications for the weld) my boss is always saying that I have to do the job "Faster" but this shows that this is not the "Right" way to do it.
I hate that. Constantly chirpin' at ya to go faster faster then suddenly you're the one to blame when things fuck up.
Thank you for this. I am an uncertified welder, mechanic, fabricator, jack of all trade, master of a few. I was taught weave, on everything, I have used both, stringer mainly for vertical and overhead, but weave on everything else. This will change the way I weld a lot. Again, thank you!
You were taught by old school welders who may well have not known better, but stringer is better for strength.
When I was doing D1.1 root/multi I always did stringer. What I did for the cert and what I kept doing. I was lucky enough to have Dennis Wright as a teacher. (Writer of the AWS GMAW process)
Man that's awesome. I would think that it would be common sense that stringers are stronger, but maybe I'm being full of myself. Anyway, you're lucky to have been taught by that guy.
Thanks for getting to the point. Way too many video creators these days talk for the first 3 minutes without actually covering the content. Manufactures using primarily string welds in production finally makes sense.
This vidjiou is a very infomative one. Total awesomeness. I hope you are going to continue comparing these two techniques also with other welding methods. I work in a shipyard, and the vessel structure welders aren't even allowed to weave. Now I can definitely understand why :D In a business where the structural welds will not be visible, the only thing that matters is strength. I salute you!
looks like we got a fellow AvE viewer in here.
@@Kyrazlan AvE would say more like vidjayo
I'm impressed.
You changed one thing ONLY
Measured the differences
And came to a clear conclusion.
I have to quite weave-welding !
Wow. Excellent job here!
That's a really great experiment, and I think it was worth every penny it cost to make.
Great job!
Thanks I use both styles and never knew there was a strength difference. It will change the way I weld from now one.
This was really interesting; my instructors back in my active college days didn't have a charpy machine, only tensile and u bend test rigs (this was back in the the early '90's), so seeing the same results with much more accurate testing equipment was awesome.
Thanks for doing this, as well as confirming my faith in dual shield welding as (for the most part) the best of world's for structural work.
This is a phenomenal video! Thanks for putting this together. I'm sure there's a lot of hobby welders like myself that would love to see the results on thinner steel (say 3/16") with just gas shielding.
A great demo. I have gone through this myself at work. Lots of testing and qualification to meet Charpy requirements of the oil sands in Alberta Canada. We even had Lincoln visit us while testing their LA-71 wire to see what we could achieve. Keep in mind everything is thermally stress relieved which makes it harder to achieve.
This knowledge is as old as dirt though. Stringer beads reduce heat input but also has a grain refining effect on the previous beads your are welding over. Also take a look at the essential variables table of a code book. They all limit bead width. Basically if you want to weave you need to qualify it.
You said it. When I said it, I got laughed out of the shop because I wasn't carrying any welding certificates. I still knew I was right.
GREAT TOPIC FOR THE WELD JUNKIES! LETS FIX THIS AGE OLD DEBATE!😁
nothing was laid to rest here ! he butchered is weaves by stretching them beyond beliefs ! what's wrong with all of you, no one noticed ? it's like hey lets see which car is the fastest with the same driver testing both but on one test the guy tries blindfolded and everyone says yeah well that other car sure was a lot faster than the one you tested blindfolded, that settles that age old question !! lol i could copy and paste that answer of mine to at least every second person...not worth my time,already wasted too much !
Well, when you're weaving that wide, dont think there will be much hope for it in the strength tests.
He didn't test the wide weaved cap.
The cap was ground off, but it still dumped a massive amount of heat into the part. I worked in a fab shop that built bridge beams. One of the "ol timer" types decided he was gonna weave instead of stringers, regardless of what the specs called for. They were told the steel would have to be scrapped (or used for shorter pieces if possible) because weaving dumped too much heat into the part. The beams had to be cut back 100mm to remove the tainted steel.
Haven't welded since high school and now getting back into it. Thank you for this video. Knowledge is key.
Pretty interesting result. The extra heat input from extra time weaving adversely affects the weld strength. Great video.
My instructor taught me to lay the root and fill with stringer, root being wider often, and cap with weave, I suppose that combines the strength of a stringer and the fancy eye piece of the elustrious weave
Great video Jason, I like both styles but this really shows how excessive heat can compromise your weld in multiple ways. Thanks for sharing team :-)
Braiding is supposed to weld faster, but affects weld quality
I've been welding for over45 yrs now. Union Millwright in my younger days, transitioned to union Ironworker. I picked stringers before you tested. We were always taught to run stringers.
In all my years as an ASME certified welder, I've never seen a GMAW/FCAW welding procedure with a 1/2" root opening for 1/2" plate.
You can keep your interpass temp at 350F but your heat input from weaving will cause your cracking and lack of fusion problems. Most ASME customer required weldments would require a Joules requirement formula for heat input. Jobs and material to be used in environments of -20F would certainly require this.
@@dohabandit I agree. The issue of weaving in the middle portion of the weld as well as the cap pass. still presents problems with lack of fusion in the sidewall as well as the previous pass. My response is predicated on those who are welding under a certified weld procedure. For those in other welding circumstances, you do what is best for your particular need, but I believe stringers are the best for penetration and fusion ( if weld parameters are set right).
Awesome video and test. Reminded me of teaching welding in the lab and teaching Metallurgy in the other lab alongside. In the end Heat soak and input is always greater packing on layers with a weave pattern. Get in and get out, applies with any process and any filler. Multiple hot consistent passes win hands down. We could pass test in all ways with tight, fused metal over slower fancy swipes!
Explained in a way we do understand, came up with a very informative video. Hope Bob is doing just fine.
You guys have thee best channel for understanding concepts and easy to watch demonstrations.
Stringer always stronger then a weave , tighter grain structure
@Fester Blats THANOS
I truly appreciate the opportunity for these vicarious trainings. I do wish the presentation were not as fast paced. But they are detailed and clear. The greatest advantage is that I can repeat the videos often.
One thing I will never be able to say.....”I’ll just toss it over in the water jet and zip some pieces out....”
Lucky dogs.
Frank deluca ok Frank, you got me there. Let’s change it to “fortunate” dogs. I’m fairly certain they didn’t just happen upon a water wet.
Only 300mil in the usa. Over 7 billion on earth. You are lucky just to be born here. What you make is always up to you.
Robert Bogan you got that right, and I thank my lucky stars, or fortunate stars, or whatever, every single day.
I think that you did a fine job on this. Most of us have never had a weld actually tested. So this was fun to watch. Thanks.
Tom Beals thanks man, it was a fun video to shoot. Lots of welding 🤘
Great video. To understand just how each weld affected the steel, a base line test would be beneficial. Test a sample of an un-welded section of the same material. Keep up the great work.
I totally agree. A baseline from each coupon was necessary to know the starting point. They measure the end up points, but they don't know how far they deviated from the starting point. So what do they really know?
The base metal, A36 in this case, has standardized properties and values.
Testing the base metal would only serve the purpose of verifying that the steel mill
wasn't cheating.
I don't know why but the sound of that hammer breaking the samples was so satisfying . I could listen to that all day.
Great video. I would like to see some of the cutting and machining to prepare The samples😀
I agree. I don't want a short video if your cutting out the good stuff to keep it short.
It’s called a grinder bud
@@joshuaharquail597 No. Water jet.
Great vid. I've never welded in my life nor plan to. I literally knew nothing about welding but after watching your one video I know something about weaves and stringers, tolerances, testing , how the samples are cut and to switch gloves when you switch hands.
So a little tid bit on switching gloves hes wearing 2 different gloves, one is thicker protects from heat more (usually used with stick welding) and the other is thinner (usually used in tig welding) for more fine motor control. In case you didn't know why he was switching gloves when switching hands
damn I was rooting for weaves! very informative, I guess i'm doing stringers from now on.
Good choice my friend 👍
You can do em just watch your heat input
pgbcredneck Same! 😕
Been on a many of jobs and stringer is the way to go.
Yes. Exactly.
i tent to weave on thinner matarials, and string on thicker material (deeper penetration)
I love the "today we are going to piss some people off" comment... In the end, point taken. Great video, thanks.
The last time that I put _that_ much effort into analyzing a joint -
was when the dispensary was closed and I had to buy a bag in a parking lot from a dude named Bort.
(EDIT: Yeah, you read that right: Bort.)
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Idc what you say that’s funny shit 🤣🤣
My weld instructor only taught weaving for vertical welds. After each pass he had taught us to squelch it to prevent excessive heat. On the state certification we tested one weld in each position for each machine we wanted certified on. He taught walking the cup with the Tig and straight welds for everything else. I was taught back in 1994 and 1995 though, so thats been 25 years ago. I got state certified and never used it other than fixing broke stuff around the farm. I see a lot of bad habits being passed on as "secrets" on youtube channels, from people doing circles with welding rods, to walking the cup with mig welders. I was also taught to only ever make a bead longer than an inch every other inch if the item needs to be air tight or water tight. To save on welding rods unless you are building up a shaft or a surface with weld to be cut down to size.
Awesome execution on the longest debate in welding history! Love it!
Great video again. Definitely testing I'd never got to see on my own. Thanks for all the effort you guys put into educating the rest of us.
Kevin Lee we appreciate you all taking the time to watch us.
Good information to know the next time I'm mig welding with the everlast
I know this is old but, about to lay my first weld ever and have been learning a lot from this channel.
Good deal, excellent info to have and a classic debate settled.
who won
Gret technical vid and explanations about weaves vs stringers. For the importance of toughness, you gotta go stringer. Worked in rig shop, one new guy got bored and weaved up the side of mast joint... got fired... he was mouthy as heck... but he had no idea about how stingers refine that microstructure into small grain growth, and keep it small, the weaves are too soft and mast would fail. Man did he swear, only lasted about 4 hours... on that job.
Hell yea I learned something, and I didn't even have to pay ya! Thanks.
Seriously though, I was surprised that the weave capped out first. Keeping an eye on interpass temps I would've bet that the stringers ran cooler.
Awesome to see both the welding and testing for stringers vs weaves in a video. Thanks for putting this together.
My gut expected no significant difference. I've always contended you should use what best suits the situation to give the minimum of 'mistakes' in the process and good gas cover. I always leaned to stringer mostly because it's faster. Learned something here. Thanks!
Man, so many questions. You’re onto something though.
I love the science behind this and the detail to the info, but sometimes I wonder why I watch videos like this when all my welding is just weekend warrior projects lol.
Randomly stumbled here, not a welder. I'm a machinist. It is pretty cool seeing the test preformed though. I work in a small fixturing and repair shop owned by a large testing and research company. They do all kinds of tests like the tensile, fatigue, charpy, torque and any kind of custom test the costomer wants. Temps ranging from -350 all the way up to over 2000 degrees fahrenheit. We never see the tests or the testing frames. Just make the parts, repair or replace anything. Ship it out to the parent company and start the next job. Theyre super secretive about it all. I have repaired some of the instrom equipment as well. I only know that because they have the company name engraved or stamped into it. I'm sure it's cheaper for me to do it than to buy a new wedge grip or something. They just pay our wage and keeps the lights on since it's all technically in house. We also make some of the test samples for GE or Boeing Ford or whoever when the main shop gets a little behind.
Awesome video! Would you please do one for the other styles of beads, like for the e, triangles etc? It would be nice to see the hierarchy of strength in the different weld bead styles. Thank you for doing this video!
Great idea!
Awesome .... More people like you we need ... Some people know how ... But some just can't do it ...
Lab testing is impressive! Thanks gang.
Super - sitting in my home shop; watched the whole thing!
What does any of this mean? Where am I? How did I get here?
I was watching chickens in a coop 2 minutes ago.
UA-cam.... What ya doin?
But all jokes aside, I think I learned a lot from this, while not even knowing the first thing of anything welding or metal.
Lot's of knowledge on display here, good quality.
Yeah - once in a while you switch from entertainment to actually learning something :P
You watch chickadee engineering too lol
Weld up some chickens 😂
@@MaineHomeShop Aye, now I can tell _Strings_ from _Weaves._ And know there's some MatheMagics™ going on under them.
All *Very* interesting stuff.
I don't own a welder. Haven't held one in years. And this vid is going in *Deep.* I don't think my mind can handle science of this magnitude!
What I'm saying is: _Chickens are more my speed, right now._ :P
[Edit: UA-cam doing it's double spacings thing again....]
@@matthewlewis9996 You know? I should.
Out of some scrap metal.... That's be cool!
Yes i had my welding tested many years ago here in Canada and the teachings at that time was to never weave because it mixes impurities into the pool of malting metal and weakens your welding process. i did the welder fitters/ pipe course in the mid 90's and passed all my bend tests and that bend test on concave and convex pipe. we would fail if we did a weave weld for our tests back then. Pressure pipe was 6010 root and 7018 Stringers for the filler and cover passes, I remember for my cover passes the stringers looked like one weld but it was 3 passes Horizontal 3/8 plate was scratch start TIG Root and 7018 filler and cover. Even vertical and over head stick is 6010 root up hill and 7018 filler, stringers and cover stringers, I found it was easy for me, it all has to do with prep setup and heat settings. I nice when you heat is correct because the slag fall off on it own as it cools.
Nice Esab Rebels. Got me the 205 ic AC/DC. Absolutely impressed with it. As for the welding. In my expierence as a pressure pipe welder, it's not really a debate as which is better. It's about procedure. Travel speed is critical, interpass temp is critical. As well as staying within the codes for weld width. If you travel too slow your overall heat input gets past the allowable tolerances and you are welding out of procedure. So I dunno if that annoys anyone, but it's my reality. Cheers.
Very informative vid.
Obviously weave allowance is a huge factor in structural integrity of the weld.
Very interesting. You can't beat hard data. I find this stuff fasinating, more please!
Slightly softer data, in the case of weaves...
@@WBush-uc9pe So funny, I forgot to laugh, Ha Ha...
Kick ass video! I love SCIENCE when it disproves EMOTION. Strong work, guys!
Cool testing never seen it before. I now know what charpy v notch means, it just took 50 years to find that out.
It's funny watching this. When you first start out all this seems new. I've been in the field now 5years now and it all seems second hand now. Practice makes perfect and it gets easier.
Very informative...but always knew the case for weaving was a no no and has been outlawed in the railways since i can remember over my 30 yr career. The old boys knew there shit no doubt about it!
Lol so what are you welding on on the railways LOL and what type of Steel is it yeah those really guys knew how to turn a one-hour job into 16 hours with overtime LMFAO
@@user-mt9tn1ni4g I’d do the same if I was trying to feed a family dude
@@warrenhall8569 That's what they say about drug dealers and armed robbers in the hood.
@@deconteesawyer5758 if your paid by the hour why rush a job
@@warrenhall8569 It is called ethics. No mention of rushing was stated or implied.
Fucking off, and malingering on the job certainly were implied.
The idea of a fair days pay for a fair day's work flies in the face of the diametrically opposed stance of seniority pay and retention cited.
Edit: Folks like you are why they make punching the time clock at either end of the building every fifteen minutes a job requirement to keep you from sleeping on the job as night parking lot watchman.
I only guessed stringers, and I guessed right. I haven't been welding long enough to have the experience to make an informed judgment, but I'm happy that my wild guess was correct.
This is a good video looking at the differences in the weld metal properties. However, why didn't y'all look into side/root/face bend testing? From my understanding, these are common qualification tests.
Those check for porousity, slag inclusions, lack of fusion and such.
Great video dude! Love the science behind our welds! , However I'm in a structural shop and procedure does not allow weaving do to the sure fact too much room for error to trap slagg
Awesome video, incredibly informative. The results were a big surprise for me. I definitely thought weave was going to be stronger.
Me personally I like stringers better than weaving. I feel when you weave you tend to trap more slag 🤷🏻♂️ but yeah stringers all the way for me 💯
Thanks for the video! No surprise that stringer has better mechanical properties than the wave one. You could even have bigger values of the charpy v-notch test, if you had laid the final run in the middle of the weld. Thus you do heat treatment of the HAZ (heat affected zone), which is in the base material and where are the highest values of hardness. Once again thanks for the great video.
Do it again with 7018 1/8th rod. Everyone seems to weld pipe especially there cap with a wide weave. I run stringers myself. Curious on the differences
When was trained to to weld heavy steel to run stringers and use a weave for the cover weld, but that was in the ARMY
Same
Yeh but you forgot the ... And you should have ... Comments aplenty. The only time you should be weaving is Saturday night after the pub shuts.
I might be tempted to weave a cap if it's non critical work, sculpture etc.
Fantastic video, this is the best welding video I’ve seen so far. Thanks so much for doing this !
welders can complain all they want but when you are testing you follow the WPS ALWAYS!
Even when they say 55A for 1" plate?🤣
Very interesting. That Ben dude is pretty cool. He’s got a lot of knowledge about testing, but he gave a good introduction to it for the rest of us.
Thank you for an informative video! Too bad you didnt take the x-ray at first to get an overview of the sludge. Eitherway it shows me that i'll need to enhace my welding and do stringers instead.
Again; thank you. Greetings from Norway.
Great vid,thanks for taking the time to make this! Still a weave guy,unless its critical
Great video. Welding and Metallurgy 101 stringers are stronger than weaves.
Great video! I never knew how this was done! I've done x rays and bend tests but never these!
Solid testing. Solid test results. Can't argue with that.
Very good episode!!! Everyone that welds needs to know this!
Critical note: On the tensile test, the stringer failed in a ductile manner with the line of failure basically horizontal. On the weave sample, the almost 45 degree line of failure indicates a brittle material. Why? Because ductile materials fail in the tension plane, while brittle materials fail in the shear plane. If you rotate a tiny cross section of a tensile test specimen 45 degrees that is the state of max shear. Look up Mohr's circle if you're curious.
I'm actually quite surprised he didn't touch on that. Haven't watched V-notch yet, though.
almost every tensile test will break at a 45 degree angle. if it does not do that it could indicate a premature origin point. in that sample it was probably a massive slag line in the weld near the cap because of the giant weave taken while capping the weld because of lack of penetration. by the time he was welding on the other toe of the weld the puddle had already cooled to the point that he was just piling weld metal on top of the base metal (lack of penetration). it would have been interesting to see a cross section of the weave to check for non fusion near the cap of the weave weld.
super interesting, i had wondered at the strength of the two types before. but i never expected the difference to be so drastic.