The infrared they are looking for/at is not supposed to be an alien signal, but just the waste heat from their giant structures (i.e. - Dyson Spheres). Kind of like looking at the spectrum of alien worlds for oxygen, but instead targeting giant and advanced alien structures.
Arkham_Razors when archeologists look for evidence of a past civilisation they usually come across buried structures last. Its the rubbish heap they find first. All the shit those folks threw away tells archeologists about the civilisation. So rather than looking for dyson spheres SETI should probably be searching for a junkyard or rubbish tip. Not least because it expands the number of civilisations to the ones extant AND extinct.
Huh. I independently came to the same conclusion he did that technology changes very quickly, and because of that a species would evolve past the use of our communications tech very quickly.
+cortster12 Another question is whether an advanced civilization has any necessity to expand at all. It is a very darwinistic thinking that a civilization must rapidly go out there and colonize when the hallmark of us as technological species is that we unhinged/cheat our way out of evolution by applying science and technology to exponentionally improve our odds. Is there a reason to go into space when everyone can happily live in a virtual reality and do all the science and living possible in a self contained system. The arrival of advances in medicine with contraception and quality of life made western birth rates plummet when a century before we had five or more children per family because it isn't seen as a social, natural or otherwise necessity to have lots of offspring anymore. Whether that's a problem we need to solve or not it begs the question if an advanced civilization really has much of an urge to increase into the tens of billions of individuals at if there is no evolutionary pressure to do grow a large population anymore.
Our Earth can handle upwards of a trillion humans (granted we need some more advanced tech for it). And we can already, in theory, deal with many planet threatening events. But none of that changes our desire to explore and expand. It's not a need, it's a want. And any other sufficiently advanced species could only have gotten to that point with a similar sense of curiosity. Unless that sense peters out, expansion is inevitable.
Ben Miller is an extraordinary person, not what you would imagine after watching "Death in Paradise" etc... I was quite impressed with this discussion from the RI...
18:07 Ben missed the golden opportunity to to turn to Jim Al-Khalili and reference Star Trek by saying "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it". (Pedant alert: before you get on my case, the quote is actually not from the series but from the comedy song "Star Trekkin" that parodied Star Trek)
Miller is really good at explaining this stuff. I picked up a few new things or heard alternate explanations that clarified things just about biology and evolution alone as well as the substance of the talk. And he has a clever hook about how the aliens are coming.
well we've watched too much star trek. However it may well be true that more life out there in the universe , intelligent or otherwise is very different from us... there's a reasonable chance some of it may be a bit like us... just my two cents worth
I've been saying for years, an interstellar civilization is not going to depend on radio where it might take years or decades for a conversation to take place would be ludicrous. 150 years ago there was no radio, 150-200 years from now I don't see us still using radio.
Life is probably common but technology using life may be very rare if not unique because of the ubiquity of water means worlds capable of bearing life are probably water worlds, on which technological using life is impossible.
Cough mints and bottles of water really should be handed out at The Royal Institution. (It's such a confined space and there's many people sharing their germs.)
13:10 maybe it's because intelligent life forms don't plan ahead for millions of years. Actually in modern human society there is nothing planned ahead more than a few decades, big investments are usually not made if there is no profit within 10 years. But just making a mision to the next system (Alpha Centauri) would probably take over 100 years and be quite expensive.
If there is technological alien life, but based on a super-earth planet, how would they get away from its gravity? Would such a civilisation even try to develop space travel? Would they think about the concept of alien (to them) life?
Gravity is known ... but not understood by humanity... if we ever understand it and learn how to use it , manipulate it then anti gravity could release folk from the gravity of their planet , large or small... just a thought
it's impossible to believe or predict anything regarding alien species because we only have one data point, earth. life just might be very, very unlikely to ever start, therefore we are extremely rare. If odds of life starting on a planet is 10^100 then we may be the only life in existence. It's just impossible to know.
There could also be plenty of civilizations out among the stars that aren't all that super advanced. Take a bell curve with cave men on one side and post-physical trans-humans on the other, most are going to fall somewhere in the "boring" middle bit we find ourselves in. Just because the universe is old it doesn't mean civilization is old. We could be one of, if not the, first.
The thing that perplexes me is not so much the form or basis of life as the timing. I mean how LONG are these civilizations gonna be around? Compared to the total time available to evolve? We've had a decent amount of time to evolve to our present form but really how smart are we? I mean we've only been here for a total of around 8M years.. not very long at all compared to this system and even a lot less compared to THIS universe. Thus WE have an 8M window here out of how much time in comparison? And ARE we gonna be here for even another million? At our rate of killing one another its very possible even probable that we won't be around for even another thousand years. Sure as our brain advances we devise more efficient methods of killing one another, not the other way. How do other civilizations get beyond the killing of like kind stage? That in itself is gonna lesson our chances of arriving at a point in time whereby more than a few civilizations within the entire universe will coexist. Yeah we could very well have zillions of civilizations.. but unfortunately due to very, VERY short lifespans coexistence may not be that common. However somehow other civilizations definitely have appeared to have found us. I mean look at crop circle pictograms. No way those things were made by any entity based upon mankind as we know it (we are just plain too stupid). No way. It could be though that they've been here since day one. I believe though that they're transient. Note though that "they" could easily hide within our oceans. yep plenty of "hide room" there.
Aliens arrive. The glaringly obvious lack of facilities concerning imprisonment & slaughter-housing of any sort both are in the mix. A fleet of various machines is assembled amidst the merriment.
13:26 I completely disagree! It's the speed of light that is keeping us apart. Years at the speed of light just to reach the nearest star. And matter cannot travel that fast anyway. Bummer, I know.
As WE know it. but remember we're probably NOT the brightest sparks in the fire. We only know about our "observable universe". But we may NOT even be aware of other universes or even the SIZE of ours! Infinity is a very difficult concept to imagine much less our place somewhere within it.
How many times do I have to say it - we are the aliens - we will develop AI beyond our physical limitations which will enable interstellar travel followed by seeding and colonising other worlds where we'll reverse engineer and diversify depending on planetary conditions and ultimately fight and destroy each other until the basic building block remnants will start the circle of life enabling the Stones to tour forever and hopefully write some new songs with Brian, Mick T Charlie and Ronnie and Bill taking a load off the Glimmer Twins Could you imagine Mick and Keith in terminator bodies?
I would not be so sure about silicon... I mean sure, the first evolution of life is more likely to take carbon form, but silicon is so handy for computing...and highly technologically advanced civilization could easily kick start second evolution of silicon based life forms... The carbon based Earth-like life is unlikely to be wel lsuited for travelling interstellar distances and colonizing galaxy... silicon based life forms that would be kind of intelligent robots and probes would be much better suited for colonizing all kinds of environments and surviving long time on the voyage doing nothing... Also, I think it is wise to look for aliens but stupid to broadcast our position... I mean it is possible that the aliens will not be out to get us, but in case our neighbours are hostile, why to bring their attention to us... On the other hand it might turn out we are the hostile ones and we should not get them time to get ready for us...
It seems to me they never going to believe animals talk until one of them say ---- hey give me a cig and a beer and sit down and shut up a while. 😳🤔😳🤔😳🤔😳🤔
The infrared they are looking for/at is not supposed to be an alien signal, but just the waste heat from their giant structures (i.e. - Dyson Spheres). Kind of like looking at the spectrum of alien worlds for oxygen, but instead targeting giant and advanced alien structures.
Arkham_Razors when archeologists look for evidence of a past civilisation they usually come across buried structures last. Its the rubbish heap they find first. All the shit those folks threw away tells archeologists about the civilisation.
So rather than looking for dyson spheres SETI should probably be searching for a junkyard or rubbish tip.
Not least because it expands the number of civilisations to the ones extant AND extinct.
Huh. I independently came to the same conclusion he did that technology changes very quickly, and because of that a species would evolve past the use of our communications tech very quickly.
+cortster12
Another question is whether an advanced civilization has any necessity to expand at all. It is a very darwinistic thinking that a civilization must rapidly go out there and colonize when the hallmark of us as technological species is that we unhinged/cheat our way out of evolution by applying science and technology to exponentionally improve our odds. Is there a reason to go into space when everyone can happily live in a virtual reality and do all the science and living possible in a self contained system.
The arrival of advances in medicine with contraception and quality of life made western birth rates plummet when a century before we had five or more children per family because it isn't seen as a social, natural or otherwise necessity to have lots of offspring anymore. Whether that's a problem we need to solve or not it begs the question if an advanced civilization really has much of an urge to increase into the tens of billions of individuals at if there is no evolutionary pressure to do grow a large population anymore.
Our Earth can handle upwards of a trillion humans (granted we need some more advanced tech for it). And we can already, in theory, deal with many planet threatening events. But none of that changes our desire to explore and expand. It's not a need, it's a want. And any other sufficiently advanced species could only have gotten to that point with a similar sense of curiosity. Unless that sense peters out, expansion is inevitable.
@@PongoXBongo A trillion?, i think not, unless we are all in the matrix.
Just fantastic. Thank you RI. Can't wait to get the book.
MilitantPeaceist wow is this 2 years old? love the name too
Absolutely love The Royal Institution. On my bucket list to visit one day.
Ben Miller is an extraordinary person, not what you would imagine after watching "Death in Paradise" etc... I was quite impressed with this discussion from the RI...
18:07 Ben missed the golden opportunity to to turn to Jim Al-Khalili and reference Star Trek by saying "It's life, Jim, but not as we know it".
(Pedant alert: before you get on my case, the quote is actually not from the series but from the comedy song "Star Trekkin" that parodied Star Trek)
They are already here!
Good talk 😊 is the other video the same ? 46 min one or is it just got a little bit extra tacked on ?
+Daves Reality This video is a question and answer session that followed the discussion between the two and is the 46minute video.
***** thanks I'll give it a watch after lunch
Miller is really good at explaining this stuff. I picked up a few new things or heard alternate explanations that clarified things just about biology and evolution alone as well as the substance of the talk. And he has a clever hook about how the aliens are coming.
I loved when he explained nuclear physics to an expert on nuclear physics.
The ultimate question: is the Universe on purpose or is it by accident. From this ever thing else flows.
There is a 3th option, the universe is unavoidable.
I would enjoy some comments on the Aliens revealed on the History Channel productions concerning Ancient Aliens and other topics.
The aliens are here! please save us!
I don't understand why everyone that brings up finding life outside our planet assumes that we will find Life that is anything at all like us.
well we've watched too much star trek. However it may well be true that more life out there in the universe , intelligent or otherwise is very different from us... there's a reasonable chance some of it may be a bit like us... just my two cents worth
Ben Miller takes forever to get his point across. 11:08 End of question put to him. 13:14 He gives his answer
29:50 cracks me up because not only does he say he’s embarrassed, if you watch the color of his face, it turns red.
Really interesting, gotta love the R.I.
Wake Up ! The Aliens are already here.
Very cool....enjoyed the speaker and the subject matter. Thanks for sharing!!! :-)
They will not attack us because they simply love, I love Lucy !
I just feel like they are holding back. I can see the fellow on the left being brought in, brilliant that guy
I've been saying for years, an interstellar civilization is not going to depend on radio where it might take years or decades for a conversation to take place would be ludicrous. 150 years ago there was no radio, 150-200 years from now I don't see us still using radio.
Ben miller, very interesting man. Far broader than I expected. I will read his books.
WHERE is the discussion on aliens???
Life is probably common but technology using life may be very rare if not unique because of the ubiquity of water means worlds capable of bearing life are probably water worlds, on which technological using life is impossible.
Cough mints and bottles of water really should be handed out at The Royal Institution.
(It's such a confined space and there's many people sharing their germs.)
I can't help thinking of Boff from Johnny English when ever I see Ben these days.
13:10 maybe it's because intelligent life forms don't plan ahead for millions of years. Actually in modern human society there is nothing planned ahead more than a few decades, big investments are usually not made if there is no profit within 10 years. But just making a mision to the next system (Alpha Centauri) would probably take over 100 years and be quite expensive.
If there is technological alien life, but based on a super-earth planet, how would they get away from its gravity? Would such a civilisation even try to develop space travel? Would they think about the concept of alien (to them) life?
Gravity is known ... but not understood by humanity... if we ever understand it and learn how to use it , manipulate it then anti gravity could release folk from the gravity of their planet , large or small... just a thought
it's impossible to believe or predict anything regarding alien species because we only have one data point, earth.
life just might be very, very unlikely to ever start, therefore we are extremely rare. If odds of life starting on a planet is 10^100 then we may be the only life in existence. It's just impossible to know.
9 minutes in and nothing about aliens.. Skip!
There could also be plenty of civilizations out among the stars that aren't all that super advanced. Take a bell curve with cave men on one side and post-physical trans-humans on the other, most are going to fall somewhere in the "boring" middle bit we find ourselves in. Just because the universe is old it doesn't mean civilization is old. We could be one of, if not the, first.
Very enjoyable.
The thing that perplexes me is not so much the form or basis of life as the timing. I mean how LONG are these civilizations gonna be around? Compared to the total time available to evolve? We've had a decent amount of time to evolve to our present form but really how smart are we? I mean we've only been here for a total of around 8M years.. not very long at all compared to this system and even a lot less compared to THIS universe. Thus WE have an 8M window here out of how much time in comparison? And ARE we gonna be here for even another million? At our rate of killing one another its very possible even probable that we won't be around for even another thousand years.
Sure as our brain advances we devise more efficient methods of killing one another, not the other way. How do other civilizations get beyond the killing of like kind stage? That in itself is gonna lesson our chances of arriving at a point in time whereby more than a few civilizations within the entire universe will coexist. Yeah we could very well have zillions of civilizations.. but unfortunately due to very, VERY short lifespans coexistence may not be that common.
However somehow other civilizations definitely have appeared to have found us. I mean look at crop circle pictograms. No way those things were made by any entity based upon mankind as we know it (we are just plain too stupid). No way. It could be though that they've been here since day one. I believe though that they're transient. Note though that "they" could easily hide within our oceans. yep plenty of "hide room" there.
Aliens arrive.
The glaringly obvious lack of facilities concerning imprisonment & slaughter-housing of any sort both are in the mix.
A fleet of various machines is assembled amidst the merriment.
Fast forward to 2019. Nope... Still no aliens.
Pentagon reckons otherwise.
@@BazIrvine I bet they don't. UAP doesn't equal aliens. Unidentified is just that.
13:26 I completely disagree! It's the speed of light that is keeping us apart. Years at the speed of light just to reach the nearest star. And matter cannot travel that fast anyway. Bummer, I know.
Spooky action at a distance.
As WE know it. but remember we're probably NOT the brightest sparks in the fire. We only know about our "observable universe". But we may NOT even be aware of other universes or even the SIZE of ours! Infinity is a very difficult concept to imagine much less our place somewhere within it.
How many times do I have to say it - we are the aliens - we will develop AI beyond our physical limitations which will enable interstellar travel followed by seeding and colonising other worlds where we'll reverse engineer and diversify depending on planetary conditions and ultimately fight and destroy each other until the basic building block remnants will start the circle of life enabling the Stones to tour forever and hopefully write some new songs with Brian, Mick T Charlie and Ronnie and Bill taking a load off the Glimmer Twins
Could you imagine Mick and Keith in terminator bodies?
Why is a GCSE exam question asking an opinion? Exam questions are meant to have definitive right and wrong answers.
Silicon. What has that ever done for us? LOL
"They're coming to get you Barbara."
I've got headache from this
I would not be so sure about silicon... I mean sure, the first evolution of life is more likely to take carbon form, but silicon is so handy for computing...and highly technologically advanced civilization could easily kick start second evolution of silicon based life forms... The carbon based Earth-like life is unlikely to be wel lsuited for travelling interstellar distances and colonizing galaxy... silicon based life forms that would be kind of intelligent robots and probes would be much better suited for colonizing all kinds of environments and surviving long time on the voyage doing nothing...
Also, I think it is wise to look for aliens but stupid to broadcast our position... I mean it is possible that the aliens will not be out to get us, but in case our neighbours are hostile, why to bring their attention to us... On the other hand it might turn out we are the hostile ones and we should not get them time to get ready for us...
Plastique is fantastique! Especially, in 'certain' places?...
If signal is really needed, the atom bomb.......
It seems to me they never going to believe animals talk until one of them say ---- hey give me a cig and a beer and sit down and shut up a while. 😳🤔😳🤔😳🤔😳🤔
The 1st very 1st minute they destroyed him and he went the full thing 😂😂😂😂
Are aliens coming?
I (literally) don't care. Do not recommend channel *clicked*.
Yip it's irrelevant like you.
And what are humans? Plants? Shouldn't we say "other animals" rather than just "animals"?
Nooooooo..... THERE'S A Q.A!!! 😂😂😂
You Two are saying nothing but, are not seeing the obvious. Learn from the Wisdom of God.
He’s a chancer. ‘Canals on the moon!’ ‘Life started twice on earth?’.
Stick to the Children’s books. Blah, blah… nothing even remotely new….
poimrless