Hello Simon! No worries at all about the late video - was very happy to see what it was when it did appear 😃🐀 This is indeed the hardest RAT RUN so far, I think nearly everyone who has been following the series is agreeing about that. Considering that you have always said you find nabner puzzles a bit confusing, you did a jolly good job of this. You quickly got the core deduction that only two 6-cell segments are possible, and only with a 6 doubler and an 8 doubler. I remember exactly where I was when I thought of this idea. I was in Rome in April, on the back of a rickshaw type vehicle being pedalled around on a little tour of a beautiful park. The weather was perfect, I was relaxed, and my mind (as it often does in such conditions) wondered into creative mode. I started thinking through my list of test constraints I could use for RAT RUN episodes, and began considering Nabners. Nabners on their own seemed like it would quickly get a bit boring - lots of 13579 segments and nothing longer. It seemed like a good place to start introducing modifiers into the puzzles to open the possibilities up somewhat, and so I knew this puzzle would not appear in the first 6 or 7 episodes, so that people could get acclimatised to how these mazes work before modifiers start getting thrown into the mix. I wanted the first modifier to be probably the simplest one - a doubler. When considering this, I liked the instant restriction that you can only have two 6-cell segments, and with specifically 6 and 8 on the doublers, so I knew I wanted to build this puzzle around that. I made a note of it in my 'RAT RUN ideas' note in my phone. This was way before I even published RAT RUN 1 at the start of June, so it was a couple of months before I actually started working on this. I had been looking forward to doing so. I didn't really expect that it would turn out to be perhaps the hardest puzzle of the first 10, but I wasn't unhappy that it turned out that way. The difficulty had to ramp up a bit some time ;) Was very pleased with how this one turned out, I always enjoy having to use the 'which modifiers do I have left?' logic, and also found it satisfying that the two parts you seemed to enjoy most were my two favourite parts too... 1) in box 6, where the path has to dodge the doubled 3 because of the 57 pencilmark, and 2) in box 1 where the doubler on the path can't be a doubled 5, cos there's a 9 on it too. You'll all be pleased to know that episodes 9 and 10 are a fair bit more approachable, back into 3 star territory (for now!), but hopefully still fun and with some new ideas thrown in. Thank you again Simon for how often you are featuring this series. I never expect it or take anything for granted, and it's always a genuine delight to see how you go about tackling them, and which bits you enjoy most 😀 PS: Also, thanks for making a RAT RUN playlist, that's exciting! I noticed you accidentally put Zetamath's latest puzzle in there too though 😅
Marty Sears, how do you do it?! I’ve not read your comment as I’m still solving but I just had to pass on that I thought the interaction between boxes 7, 8 and 9 was a thing of beauty. I could see exactly where the logic was heading and just had to wait for it to reveal itself, which was incredibly satisfying. It’s like I’ve never been away from CTC (I had to take a break from youtube until I could get rid of adverts, which I’ve now managed). Amazing (pun not intended) setting, as always. 🙂 Edit 1: You totally got me with the doubler in box 6. I simply couldn’t work out how the puzzle could seem to be fully correct and broken at the same time!! Pure evil but also, total genius! 🤣 Edit 2: Well, you got me again in box 3!! I loved the interplay between the doublers and non-doublers in the box, though. Overall, what a puzzle! Straightforward to think about but with a number of twists and turns (pun intended) that made it a great balance and an enjoyable solve. Many thanks.
Finkz is getting more popular than Nala. The Rat Run series is getting more popular than any other. Marty is getting more popular than Maverick. Thanks again Marty for your comment. Looking forward to the next feature.
Just another masterful job Marty with this series!! You are incredible! Pleasure reading about how you went about setting and thinking this beauty! The doublers worked magnificently. Love how you set and what you constantly come up with!
Hi Marty! Thank you very much for the RatRun series. I enjoyed all of the puzzles released so far, and especially this one. It was indeed hard, but all steps could be found in an appropriate amount of time, so I didn't feel like I'm standing against the wall I can't pass through. And thank you for commenting below CtC videos. It's always very interesting to read the setter's thoughts or story after watching a puzzle.
evil settings :) Took me forever to figure out the path detour between box 5 and 8. Doubler 3 and 9 are monsterly hard for me to spot. 145mins and pround. What a treat!
For those who are wondering why at 32:42 can't be 28 pair with doubled 2, it's because it would force both 3 and 4 on the same nabner line in box 8 by Sudoku, with no doubler available on the line. So this doesn't work.
I think a better way of figuring this out is that the 3 in bow 8 couldn't be on the nabner line because of the 4 already on it, as well as the 6, meaning that the 3 couldn't be the doubler. Thus forcing the 3 in box 8 into row 7, causing a 123 triple. Not saying your logic is incorrect, in fact we're really just saying the same thing, I just prefer positive logic over negative logic.
Agree that Simon overlooked that possibility, but I'm sure he would have soon found out why the 8 and doubled 2 can't work. People have suggested a couple of valid reasons here. My way of thinking about it was that the line at the bottom of box 8 is 4 cells long with a 6 on it, and you can't put 1 or 2 on it by sudoku. So it needs a doubler down there on that segment.
@@dragonpast1327 I think even easier is that in box 8, row 9, you can only have 345789, and they're on a nabner with 6. If all of them are natural, you rule out 57 and only have 3487 to place on the other 3 cells of a nabner, which doesn't work, so it must take the doubler of box 8, meaning the digits in box 8, row 7 are natural, and that the doubler in box 7 is the 8 in r7c1. All of that is to say that the black dot between r7c4 and r7c5 is natural, can't have a 6, 4, or 8, so must be a 1-2.
I really want one of these rat run puzzles to have finkz next to the cake and the path to just be moving one square over but that solution requires you to do the whole puzzle to figure out.
Simon, Simon...such intuition, joy and love you have during this solve. Your laughter and smile is beyond contagious. Another exceptional rat run puzzle from you Marty!!
hii, Im Justyna from Poland, thank you so much for the shout-out, I watch your videos since the first lockdown and i watch almost every day. although i must disappoint Simon , i requested no cake at all for my birthday this year 😅. thanks again ✌️💛😽
"Normal sudoku rules apply....um....sorry I was just reading that to check that it was normal." We got a glimpse of the trauma these sudoku setters have caused Simon.
I have seen somebody else point out that a 2-8 with "doubled" 2 in box 8 would force a 3 into the same nabner line as 4 in row 9. I didn't see it myself.
That was nothing short of remarkable throughout. I'm jaw dropped. Every single box has more than one nabner line in it. The logic was all the way to the end amazing and tight as a drum. Wow. Amazing construction Marty. I have no idea how you did this and made everything work - all those pieces fitting together like clockwork. A plus.
Thankyou very much for this lovely comment. Nabners are actually a very nice constraint to work with, and if they are 4 cells or less they’re not actually too constrained, meaning that I had quite a lot of control and scope about where I put the walls to direct things in an interesting way
While I agree wholeheartedly that it's a remarkable puzzle, I'm not sure if it counts as having multiple nabner lines in boxes 7 and 9? The line visits those boxes twice, sure, but if one of those visits only passes through a single cell, does that form a nabner line? 🙂 I coloured the line differently where it crosses a box boundary, to make my nabner lines stand out. So it definitely only looks like one nabner line in box 7 and 9 in my grid. Sorry. I'm being very picky, I know. It's still remarkable that the line even visits every box more than once. Bravo, Marty.
What a series, these RatRuns! Wonderful, wonderful puzzles, not too difficult, and it’s a pleasure to watch Simon solve them after I do it myself. Well done, Simon, Marty and Finkz!
This comes at exactly the right time for me :) I've been battling with this for two hours... after finally remembering how exactly the nabner rule worked and then messing up somehow anyway. Definitely harder than the other puzzles in the series.
I ♥ the variety of logic. Nothing crazy hard, but very little in the way of "we went through this...". Every box, all the black dots bunches, the path....each resolved in a different way. Not just "same logic/different numbers" but really quite different. Incredible idea and incredible execution!
33:23 finish. Such a fascinating set of puzzles, each wonderfully unique. With this one, every time I thought I had figured out which way I was going, another twist appeared. Awesome!
I finished in 77 minutes. These rat runs keep getting harder. I struggle normally with nabner rules and doubler rules, let alone when they are together. I enjoyed figuring out the limitation of the lengths. I think my favorite part was discovering the identity of the the line in box 8, row 9, leading to placements of some doublers. Great Puzzle!
I think you need a doubler for the line with the 6, although im still watching so im not sure (I had the same question) The 1/2 is ruled out with sudoku, so you have a 3/4, and a 8/9 , so you need a double
It was an incorrect logical deduction. I think the black dots between rows 6 and 7 force a 3 Into row 7 as well, which then forces 12 on to the black dot
@@stokeseta7107 Yeah, I believe that's right, you can't use 1 or 2 on the line below with the 6, so you can only get one nabner value below 6 and one value above 6 without a doubler. (But it does seem like Simon just missed it.)
Okay Simon didn’t cover it but if you have double 2 and 8 in row 7 above it you would have to have 8 and 4 both natural (natural because double 2 is used and double 4 would clash with the natural 4 beside it) in the vertical domino you get 1 below (because it must appear in row 7) and 2 above. So row 6 in box 5 has the digits 248 in it (not that order) but cell r6c3 now has no fill because all possible options have been used up. Therefore double 2 - 8 won’t work. There may be other ways to see it that’s how I got there.
Well you got me this time Finkz! The combination of all the rules caught me out a few times - particularly the way the path needed to keep leaving the box it was in and re-entering later so as to be a new nabner line. I ran into some contradictions and had to check the video - not to see Simon's solve, but just to identify where I'd gone wrong. With so many rules interacting I think it's easy to accidentally make an invalid assumption about something.
@@donaldsnyder1543 i don't know how he ruled it out in his head but a double 2 with an 8 would be impossible because the numbers on row 6 would have to be a 4 to go with the 8 and an 8 to go with the double 2, but there would also have to be a 2 to go with the 1 on the right and it would break r6c3 which would have no possible number left
I think there is plenty of scope for more rat run puzzles because of all the variant rules that can be added. I especially liked the teleports seen previously. I hope to see many more rat runs.
I was proud that I'd got quite close to finishing this, but hit an impasse. This video told me that both 5 and 9 were ruled out as doublers so I was able to get over the line. Preposterously difficult and preposterously entertaining puzzle.
"There's an awful lot of Sudoku in your Sudoku puzzle." One of these days, finks should traverse a yinyang or other puzzle just so there isn't sudoku to do. Bonus points if it's on a Sudoku grid with only a select few digits missing so the rest gets filled in without effort.
58:23 for me. Absolutely loved every bit of it! Didn't seem as hard for me as some other people are saying. Maybe I'm just getting better at anticipating the kinda of tricks Marty likes to put into these puzzles. 😅
I like drawing diamonds when a path has to go through one of a domino of cells. Even conjoined diamonds where the line generally goes diagonally but can transition from one diagonal track to another somewhere along the diagonal.
50:17 for me. I got really mixed up at the end because I had the wrong pencil mark in one of the cells. Probably lost me like 10 minutes. I quite enjoy these rat puzzles. It's fun to be able to make steady progress on connecting the path. Kinda feels like putting all the edge pieces of a jigsaw puzzle together.
Okay Simon didn’t cover it but if you have double 2 and 8 in row 7 above it you would have to have 8 and 4 both natural (natural because double 2 is used and double 4 would clash with the natural 4 beside it) in the vertical domino you get 1 below (because it must appear in row 7) and 2 above. So row 6 in box 5 has the digits 248 in it (not that order) but cell r6c3 now has no fill because all possible options have been used up. There for double 2 - 8 won’t work.
@@Vorash00yes you can prove that but Simon didn’t do it so he got a little bit lucky there. The way he was doing the puzzle he clearly didn’t consider the option of double 2 and 8 and didn’t prove it wrong. (Same with previous logic where he said path can’t go to r9c9 where it could go because we can go diagonally)
Took me 90 minutes because I forgot the red X do not only blocks Finkz, but the digits do sum to 10 too. Well, I know this puzzle solves without using this…. It is just a lot harder. Excellent set of puzzles btw.
You know that Simons brain resists nabner lines when he tries to figure out the maximum length of them instead of using the secret about nabner lines, that is 5 cells is the maximum (without doublers) and only possible with 13579. He sure gets there but instead of saying "I know a secret about this rule" as he almost always does he explains it to himself 😅
25:35 Speaking of nebnar sequences that uses 5 digits and doesn’t use “only odd digits”, one possibility is 1, 3, 6, 8 and double 5 :) But maybe Simon discovers that later 😅
30:50 I think that's the first time I've heard Simon say, "It's probably obvious" and it was for me this time. It's easy. You can't make a 4 segment with odd digits between evens. So, I don't think that odd could be a 5 or 7 unless there was more than 1 odd in the segment.
That was hard (for me). I kept making mistakes which got me into dead ends. At some point I gave up and watched the video, not learning anything new until ~31:35, when Simon mentioned that the path needs to turn up ... which I had looked at before and excluded as impossible, but now I saw how it can still work. I still got into a dead end this time, but after another restart I managed it in 94:19. (Total time is likely 4 or 5 times that, spread across multiple days.)
Fun little joke at the end of the puzzle, because Marty clearly enjoys this sort of thing: At the very end of the puzzle, the line goes from an 8 to a doubled 4, but that’s okay because it’s across a box border
57:27 with two looks at the video for help. I forgot the line could move diagonally and thought I broke Box 9, then I couldn't see how I could get the line to go through 6 cells in Box 5, forgetting that I could pop in and out and go around in Box 4.
Finished in 54:10 after messing up box 8 and having to backtrack a fair chunk >< Still loved the puzzle, it's definitely my favourite series so far! (Simon, the solve counter's at 1966 atm)
29:30 - On which number Fincks starts? Where is the 2 in coloum 1? I had to go back a few time cause I forgot the segments ends. Example: In R3C9 I only saw the 9, cause 5 and 7 couldnt be cause R4C9 was a 6. But the could, because R3C9 a new segment started.
at 28:50 box 8 kind of solves itself after he put the 4 via sudoku on the line. because if the 4 was a doubler it would push the doubler in box 7 (which is an 8) upwards thus forcing an 8 on the line which breaks the double 4. so the 4 on the line is a real 4 eliminating 3 from the line. which in turn means the top row becomes 1/2/3. 8 now has to be on the line solving the doubler in box 7 and puts the doubler on the line in box 8 which can neither be 4 or 8. 123 at the top is part of a nabner which means 2 has to be left side of the box, forcing 1 in the middle because of the black dot and 3 on the right. beautiful logic
Loving the rat run puzzles, but this one was brutal. Didn't help that I made a mistake, shelved it for two weeks, and when I got back I had forgotten about the X constraint...
I found it quite interesting that exactly 1 box was visited completely (box 4) and exactly 1 row was visited completely (row 4), but oddly there are two columns that were visited completely (columns 3 and 4). It would be much more intriguing if the puzzle could somehow be modified so that exactly 1 column was fully visited too, and it would be even better if we have exactly only box 4, row 4 and column 4 being visited fully!
I had dreadful trouble with this one due to making mistakes. At first I didn't spot that the line could go from box 8 to box 5 and then back into box 8, which caused me a great deal of confusion when I got to a contradiction several times in a row. Then I mistakenly ruled out 5 as the doubler in the bottom of box 8 and thought I got to the end of the puzzle, only to be told my solution was wrong. I had to use the checker to figure out that placing the 5 as the doubler in box 1 was wrong, then I finally managed to limp home to the end. Loved the puzzle, my brain just not up to it today apparently.
finished in 87:32 min. Still proud, I didn't think I'd make it through. Also it was solved over two days and paused multiple times. And I think some numbers of normal people with normal lives are missing here 😉
Great stuff, I think this is my favourite of these puzzles so far. But I think I have managed to slip up on just about every one at some point due to losing the 3x3 boxes amid all the graphics.
Even though commonly agreed this is the hardest one so far, I'm proud to say I finished this one without any help in 2:02:20; even though I didn't solve all the easier ones without help.
Even solved it the harder way around the r67c45 2x2 as the wall in the center of that 2x2 is very pale on mobile. I managed to get the digits around the wall, but feared the path won't get disambiguated until the very end, a bit before I cleared up the 579 triple in box 1, when I finally noticed the wall. I don't understand why everything in the phone app is much more pale.
Another hard one. I had to restart too many times. The logic flowed well though, so it's a good puzzle. I think I have to agree with Simon, I don't like Nabner rules.
I was confused about the 'Red X' rule. I thought the instruction that said not all Red X's are given meant that any combination that added to 10 would not be allowed on the path.
As much as I enjoyed the whole Rat Run series, this one was my least favorite. The rules weren’t clear to me, and basically, the situation that Simon reached around 39:02 was the point that blocked me with this puzzle for about an hour until I gave up and used puzzle validation to make sure I hadn’t made an error. What I mean is this: In the 4th block, the rat’s path goes through the pair 8-2. For me, this conflicted with the Forbidden Door rule: "FORBIDDEN DOORS: The values of cells connected by a red X sum to 10. Finkz may never pass through a red X. Not all possible Xs have been given." The part "Not all possible Xs have been given" was the confusing element for me. I understood it to mean that nowhere on the path should there be neighboring cells summing up to ten. But Apparently it is not a rule since there are 3 expectations on path: 8-2 pair in Block 4. and 6-4 pair in block 9; 9-1 pair in block 2 and 3-7 in 7 So, my question to you all is: How should I understand that rule?
The rule means "where you see a red X, you can conclude that the two cells it connects add to ten, but you cannot conclude that if two cells are not separated by a red X they must not add to 10".
@@itap8880 Mostly it's just standard convention. By "Not all possible Xs have been given", it means "there may be some places in the puzzle where the constructor *could* have placed an X (because two neighbouring cells add to ten) but didn't". Occasionally you'll get a puzzle which instead says something like "All possible Xs have been given.", and then you CAN assume that if two orthogonally adjacent cells don't have an X between them they must not add to ten. I agree that the wording could be potentially ambiguous to someone who hasn't encountered this rule before, but to anyone that has it's a really standard way of wording it and we know what it means. As an example, there *could* have been an X between R7C2 and R7C3, as they do add to ten in the final solution and the path doesn't pass between them. But there wasn't.
@@Tiranasta By "Not all possible Xs have been given", the setter implies some Xs are "not given". And what do you do with "not given"s in a sudoku? You fill them in according to other rules of the puzzle.
@@itap8880 I mean, I agreed that the wording is potentially ambiguous to people not familiar with the rule (but as I said, this is a standard rule type worded in a standard way). But I also think your interpretation here is a stretch. You *can* fill in Xs in these puzzles if you really want to (the difference would be purely cosmetic), but you have to make sure the Xs you put in follow *all* the rules that Xs have to follow. Which in this puzzle means you have to not just make sure that two adjacent cells sum to ten, but also that the path does not go directly between them. Otherwise any X you place between them will be invalid. I also think you're not paying enough attention to the word "possible". It's not "Not all Xs have been given",. which would imply that there are some Xs that haven't been given. It's "Not all *possible* Xs have been given", which only implies what I said in the comments above.
31:00 Am I missing something? Why can the three cells in box 8 not be 8 double2 and 1? that satisfies the nabner, and the blackcurrent, without going into box 5. edit, i see it, it would force 3 onto the bottom row, where it cant be in box 8 because of the 4 on the nabner there..
I'm a simple man. I see a Sudoku puzzle with a rat in the thumbnail, I watch the video.
Me too, but only after I solve it myself. These RatRun puzzles are some of the best and relatively approachable I’ve seen here on the channel.
I first like it. Then I watch.
How often does that happen?
Hello Simon! No worries at all about the late video - was very happy to see what it was when it did appear 😃🐀
This is indeed the hardest RAT RUN so far, I think nearly everyone who has been following the series is agreeing about that. Considering that you have always said you find nabner puzzles a bit confusing, you did a jolly good job of this. You quickly got the core deduction that only two 6-cell segments are possible, and only with a 6 doubler and an 8 doubler. I remember exactly where I was when I thought of this idea. I was in Rome in April, on the back of a rickshaw type vehicle being pedalled around on a little tour of a beautiful park. The weather was perfect, I was relaxed, and my mind (as it often does in such conditions) wondered into creative mode. I started thinking through my list of test constraints I could use for RAT RUN episodes, and began considering Nabners. Nabners on their own seemed like it would quickly get a bit boring - lots of 13579 segments and nothing longer. It seemed like a good place to start introducing modifiers into the puzzles to open the possibilities up somewhat, and so I knew this puzzle would not appear in the first 6 or 7 episodes, so that people could get acclimatised to how these mazes work before modifiers start getting thrown into the mix. I wanted the first modifier to be probably the simplest one - a doubler. When considering this, I liked the instant restriction that you can only have two 6-cell segments, and with specifically 6 and 8 on the doublers, so I knew I wanted to build this puzzle around that. I made a note of it in my 'RAT RUN ideas' note in my phone.
This was way before I even published RAT RUN 1 at the start of June, so it was a couple of months before I actually started working on this. I had been looking forward to doing so. I didn't really expect that it would turn out to be perhaps the hardest puzzle of the first 10, but I wasn't unhappy that it turned out that way. The difficulty had to ramp up a bit some time ;)
Was very pleased with how this one turned out, I always enjoy having to use the 'which modifiers do I have left?' logic, and also found it satisfying that the two parts you seemed to enjoy most were my two favourite parts too... 1) in box 6, where the path has to dodge the doubled 3 because of the 57 pencilmark, and 2) in box 1 where the doubler on the path can't be a doubled 5, cos there's a 9 on it too.
You'll all be pleased to know that episodes 9 and 10 are a fair bit more approachable, back into 3 star territory (for now!), but hopefully still fun and with some new ideas thrown in.
Thank you again Simon for how often you are featuring this series. I never expect it or take anything for granted, and it's always a genuine delight to see how you go about tackling them, and which bits you enjoy most 😀
PS: Also, thanks for making a RAT RUN playlist, that's exciting! I noticed you accidentally put Zetamath's latest puzzle in there too though 😅
Marty Sears, how do you do it?! I’ve not read your comment as I’m still solving but I just had to pass on that I thought the interaction between boxes 7, 8 and 9 was a thing of beauty. I could see exactly where the logic was heading and just had to wait for it to reveal itself, which was incredibly satisfying. It’s like I’ve never been away from CTC (I had to take a break from youtube until I could get rid of adverts, which I’ve now managed). Amazing (pun not intended) setting, as always. 🙂
Edit 1: You totally got me with the doubler in box 6. I simply couldn’t work out how the puzzle could seem to be fully correct and broken at the same time!! Pure evil but also, total genius! 🤣
Edit 2: Well, you got me again in box 3!! I loved the interplay between the doublers and non-doublers in the box, though. Overall, what a puzzle! Straightforward to think about but with a number of twists and turns (pun intended) that made it a great balance and an enjoyable solve. Many thanks.
Finkz is getting more popular than Nala.
The Rat Run series is getting more popular than any other.
Marty is getting more popular than Maverick.
Thanks again Marty for your comment. Looking forward to the next feature.
Just another masterful job Marty with this series!! You are incredible! Pleasure reading about how you went about setting and thinking this beauty! The doublers worked magnificently. Love how you set and what you constantly come up with!
Hi Marty! Thank you very much for the RatRun series. I enjoyed all of the puzzles released so far, and especially this one.
It was indeed hard, but all steps could be found in an appropriate amount of time, so I didn't feel like I'm standing against the wall I can't pass through.
And thank you for commenting below CtC videos. It's always very interesting to read the setter's thoughts or story after watching a puzzle.
evil settings :) Took me forever to figure out the path detour between box 5 and 8. Doubler 3 and 9 are monsterly hard for me to spot. 145mins and pround. What a treat!
For those who are wondering why at 32:42 can't be 28 pair with doubled 2, it's because it would force both 3 and 4 on the same nabner line in box 8 by Sudoku, with no doubler available on the line. So this doesn't work.
Agreed, however he didn't consider that at the time. I think he got lucky with that one😊
I think a better way of figuring this out is that the 3 in bow 8 couldn't be on the nabner line because of the 4 already on it, as well as the 6, meaning that the 3 couldn't be the doubler. Thus forcing the 3 in box 8 into row 7, causing a 123 triple. Not saying your logic is incorrect, in fact we're really just saying the same thing, I just prefer positive logic over negative logic.
Agree that Simon overlooked that possibility, but I'm sure he would have soon found out why the 8 and doubled 2 can't work. People have suggested a couple of valid reasons here. My way of thinking about it was that the line at the bottom of box 8 is 4 cells long with a 6 on it, and you can't put 1 or 2 on it by sudoku. So it needs a doubler down there on that segment.
@@dragonpast1327 I think even easier is that in box 8, row 9, you can only have 345789, and they're on a nabner with 6. If all of them are natural, you rule out 57 and only have 3487 to place on the other 3 cells of a nabner, which doesn't work, so it must take the doubler of box 8, meaning the digits in box 8, row 7 are natural, and that the doubler in box 7 is the 8 in r7c1.
All of that is to say that the black dot between r7c4 and r7c5 is natural, can't have a 6, 4, or 8, so must be a 1-2.
@@martysears That's the way I figured it out.
I really want one of these rat run puzzles to have finkz next to the cake and the path to just be moving one square over but that solution requires you to do the whole puzzle to figure out.
Giving us a free and joyful video thirty minutes late? That is about as outrageous as constructors making you do sudoku in a sudoku puzzle!
Simon, Simon...such intuition, joy and love you have during this solve. Your laughter and smile is beyond contagious. Another exceptional rat run puzzle from you Marty!!
hii, Im Justyna from Poland, thank you so much for the shout-out, I watch your videos since the first lockdown and i watch almost every day. although i must disappoint Simon , i requested no cake at all for my birthday this year 😅. thanks again ✌️💛😽
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday!
Mind if have a slice of cake in celebration of your birthday? 🍰 🎉
I'd be freaking out if I was Jessica! Well done!
"Normal sudoku rules apply....um....sorry I was just reading that to check that it was normal." We got a glimpse of the trauma these sudoku setters have caused Simon.
Jessica… time is ticking. WAKE UP
Outstanding solve! I took a look at the rule set and realised that this was beyond me. Just sat back and enjoyed the logic.
32:28 I think you are missing the possibility to put 28 on the black dot, instead of 12.
I have seen somebody else point out that a 2-8 with "doubled" 2 in box 8 would force a 3 into the same nabner line as 4 in row 9. I didn't see it myself.
Yes he missed this possibility. However it could be disproved at this point with more deduction.
the jessica bit was great haha
Kinda weird, but I like weird…
If this doesn't cement the fact that Simon is indeed a person I would be delighted to talk to at parties, I don't know what could!
the delivery was perfect 👌
@@JohnDBlue I hope he reads that!!!
i just had the idea: these rat runs need to be a playlist.
There is already a playlist. Well done!
I don't mind a late video. Glad it was just the internet and not something serious.
That was nothing short of remarkable throughout. I'm jaw dropped. Every single box has more than one nabner line in it. The logic was all the way to the end amazing and tight as a drum. Wow. Amazing construction Marty. I have no idea how you did this and made everything work - all those pieces fitting together like clockwork. A plus.
Thankyou very much for this lovely comment. Nabners are actually a very nice constraint to work with, and if they are 4 cells or less they’re not actually too constrained, meaning that I had quite a lot of control and scope about where I put the walls to direct things in an interesting way
While I agree wholeheartedly that it's a remarkable puzzle, I'm not sure if it counts as having multiple nabner lines in boxes 7 and 9? The line visits those boxes twice, sure, but if one of those visits only passes through a single cell, does that form a nabner line? 🙂
I coloured the line differently where it crosses a box boundary, to make my nabner lines stand out. So it definitely only looks like one nabner line in box 7 and 9 in my grid.
Sorry. I'm being very picky, I know. It's still remarkable that the line even visits every box more than once. Bravo, Marty.
36:48 R6C5 (2) and R7C5 (1) are consecutive on the path.
Finished in 43:13. Love all the rat race puzzles, and thanks for being so good at uploading all the videos, Simon!
Fun puzzle!
What a series, these RatRuns! Wonderful, wonderful puzzles, not too difficult, and it’s a pleasure to watch Simon solve them after I do it myself. Well done, Simon, Marty and Finkz!
This comes at exactly the right time for me :) I've been battling with this for two hours... after finally remembering how exactly the nabner rule worked and then messing up somehow anyway. Definitely harder than the other puzzles in the series.
I ♥ the variety of logic. Nothing crazy hard, but very little in the way of "we went through this...".
Every box, all the black dots bunches, the path....each resolved in a different way. Not just "same logic/different numbers" but really quite different.
Incredible idea and incredible execution!
Every time Simon marks the first two columns in box 4 by squiggling down with the mouse in the maze it makes my heart purr, it's just so cute.
RatRuns and Killer Primes have been the best series of the year for sure.
Marty Sears' Rat Run puzzles are my new favorites! I really like this idea of snake constraints through a maze like this.
33:23 finish. Such a fascinating set of puzzles, each wonderfully unique. With this one, every time I thought I had figured out which way I was going, another twist appeared. Awesome!
I finished in 77 minutes. These rat runs keep getting harder. I struggle normally with nabner rules and doubler rules, let alone when they are together. I enjoyed figuring out the limitation of the lengths. I think my favorite part was discovering the identity of the the line in box 8, row 9, leading to placements of some doublers. Great Puzzle!
When resolving row 7 in box 8 at 32:00, how do you rule out 1 in R7C6 and a double-2 + 8 on the black dot?
I think you need a doubler for the line with the 6, although im still watching so im not sure (I had the same question)
The 1/2 is ruled out with sudoku, so you have a 3/4, and a 8/9 , so you need a double
It was an incorrect logical deduction. I think the black dots between rows 6 and 7 force a 3 Into row 7 as well, which then forces 12 on to the black dot
@@stokeseta7107 Yeah, I believe that's right, you can't use 1 or 2 on the line below with the 6, so you can only get one nabner value below 6 and one value above 6 without a doubler. (But it does seem like Simon just missed it.)
Okay Simon didn’t cover it but if you have double 2 and 8 in row 7 above it you would have to have 8 and 4 both natural (natural because double 2 is used and double 4 would clash with the natural 4 beside it) in the vertical domino you get 1 below (because it must appear in row 7) and 2 above. So row 6 in box 5 has the digits 248 in it (not that order) but cell r6c3 now has no fill because all possible options have been used up. Therefore double 2 - 8 won’t work.
There may be other ways to see it that’s how I got there.
there is every simple deduction on that part. Where is 3 in box 8? Can't go on nubner with 4 or 6 so we have 123 triple i row 7.
I am still, and forever will be, #TeamFinkz
Soon Finkz can have her own UA-cam channel
creepiest birthday wishes ever.
I managed all the Rat Race puzzles except this one. I'm really glad to see Simon doing it so I can finally see what I'm doing wrong.
Well you got me this time Finkz! The combination of all the rules caught me out a few times - particularly the way the path needed to keep leaving the box it was in and re-entering later so as to be a new nabner line.
I ran into some contradictions and had to check the video - not to see Simon's solve, but just to identify where I'd gone wrong. With so many rules interacting I think it's easy to accidentally make an invalid assumption about something.
I am glad that not every puzzle is a Rat Run, because it makes them more special. But I am very glad for a Rat Run!
That final path 🤯, how does one set such a puzzle. This entire series is one for the books 😂
This was one I could figure out the most difficult inner workings... still took ages because it's easy to overlook things. Love the rat series.
At 32:01 how did Simon rule out the possibility of a doubled 2 with an 8 on the dot?
I have no idea as this puzzle is quite beyond me.
But I was thinking this as well.
@@donaldsnyder1543 i don't know how he ruled it out in his head but a double 2 with an 8 would be impossible because the numbers on row 6 would have to be a 4 to go with the 8 and an 8 to go with the double 2, but there would also have to be a 2 to go with the 1 on the right and it would break r6c3 which would have no possible number left
I think there is plenty of scope for more rat run puzzles because of all the variant rules that can be added. I especially liked the teleports seen previously. I hope to see many more rat runs.
@@stephencolwill148 Now imagine a wrogn rat puzzle
@@AndrewMooreMardon’t give Marty any ideas! 😂
I was proud that I'd got quite close to finishing this, but hit an impasse. This video told me that both 5 and 9 were ruled out as doublers so I was able to get over the line. Preposterously difficult and preposterously entertaining puzzle.
Trying to avoid bumping in to an x, sounds like dating in a small town!
Every time I feel this tension, like during watching thrillers, waiting when Simon finally find a clue...
solved in 28:18 - lots of great deductions along the way; my favorite was discovering the detour from box 6 to the left side
It took me about 30 minutes to notice that "nabner" is just "renban" backwards, and the opposite constraint
"There's an awful lot of Sudoku in your Sudoku puzzle." One of these days, finks should traverse a yinyang or other puzzle just so there isn't sudoku to do. Bonus points if it's on a Sudoku grid with only a select few digits missing so the rest gets filled in without effort.
58:23 for me. Absolutely loved every bit of it! Didn't seem as hard for me as some other people are saying. Maybe I'm just getting better at anticipating the kinda of tricks Marty likes to put into these puzzles. 😅
What a puzzle. Quite confusing but very exciting.
The rat run series reminds me a lot of the Sandra & Nala puzzles. The added narrative just makes the puzzles more interesting.
Perfect timing. I just finished the August challenge so I can take the time to tackle what I'm sure will be another brilliant puzzle.
I like drawing diamonds when a path has to go through one of a domino of cells. Even conjoined diamonds where the line generally goes diagonally but can transition from one diagonal track to another somewhere along the diagonal.
00:57:37 for me. There is noticeable glee in Simon's solves for all of the Rat Run puzzles. (Mine too :) ). Kind comment.
1:32:53 - I got a bit stuck in the middle when I thought that R6C4 was in the same box as C3! Brilliant puzzle again though!
50:17 for me. I got really mixed up at the end because I had the wrong pencil mark in one of the cells. Probably lost me like 10 minutes. I quite enjoy these rat puzzles. It's fun to be able to make steady progress on connecting the path. Kinda feels like putting all the edge pieces of a jigsaw puzzle together.
49:38 the doubles are confusing, if you don't notice double 1 in the same column, meaning this is a natural 10
32:24 why can’t the kropki be a 28 pair with a double 2 taking the value 4? Then it is on a 148 nabner segment in box 8?
Okay Simon didn’t cover it but if you have double 2 and 8 in row 7 above it you would have to have 8 and 4 both natural (natural because double 2 is used and double 4 would clash with the natural 4 beside it) in the vertical domino you get 1 below (because it must appear in row 7) and 2 above. So row 6 in box 5 has the digits 248 in it (not that order) but cell r6c3 now has no fill because all possible options have been used up. There for double 2 - 8 won’t work.
@@Vorash00 thank you
@@Vorash00yes you can prove that but Simon didn’t do it so he got a little bit lucky there. The way he was doing the puzzle he clearly didn’t consider the option of double 2 and 8 and didn’t prove it wrong. (Same with previous logic where he said path can’t go to r9c9 where it could go because we can go diagonally)
Took me 90 minutes because I forgot the red X do not only blocks Finkz, but the digits do sum to 10 too. Well, I know this puzzle solves without using this…. It is just a lot harder. Excellent set of puzzles btw.
You know that Simons brain resists nabner lines when he tries to figure out the maximum length of them instead of using the secret about nabner lines, that is 5 cells is the maximum (without doublers) and only possible with 13579. He sure gets there but instead of saying "I know a secret about this rule" as he almost always does he explains it to himself 😅
25:35 Speaking of nebnar sequences that uses 5 digits and doesn’t use “only odd digits”, one possibility is 1, 3, 6, 8 and double 5 :)
But maybe Simon discovers that later 😅
I'm with you, Simon. This was definitely a tough one. But delightful, as always.
Go, Finkz, Go! ❤
30:50 I think that's the first time I've heard Simon say, "It's probably obvious" and it was for me this time. It's easy. You can't make a 4 segment with odd digits between evens. So, I don't think that odd could be a 5 or 7 unless there was more than 1 odd in the segment.
That was hard (for me). I kept making mistakes which got me into dead ends. At some point I gave up and watched the video, not learning anything new until ~31:35, when Simon mentioned that the path needs to turn up ... which I had looked at before and excluded as impossible, but now I saw how it can still work.
I still got into a dead end this time, but after another restart I managed it in 94:19. (Total time is likely 4 or 5 times that, spread across multiple days.)
Fun little joke at the end of the puzzle, because Marty clearly enjoys this sort of thing: At the very end of the puzzle, the line goes from an 8 to a doubled 4, but that’s okay because it’s across a box border
I do enjoy that sort of thing 😂
@@martysears I loved that it was right at the end. It reminded me of the path going from a 7 to a 7 in the last one.
Love Finkz puzzles, thanks to Marty for these ideas 👌🏻
At 11:55 Simon says you cannot turn right, but that is precisely what going to the left of the grid is : it is turning right.
30:35 for me. Another fantastic puzzle!!
57:27 with two looks at the video for help. I forgot the line could move diagonally and thought I broke Box 9, then I couldn't see how I could get the line to go through 6 cells in Box 5, forgetting that I could pop in and out and go around in Box 4.
Amazing puzzle Marty and great solve Simon
Finkz is the hero we all deserve
48:32 ... Finkz is awesome!
NIce puzzle!
Finished in 54:10 after messing up box 8 and having to backtrack a fair chunk ><
Still loved the puzzle, it's definitely my favourite series so far!
(Simon, the solve counter's at 1966 atm)
29:30 - On which number Fincks starts? Where is the 2 in coloum 1?
I had to go back a few time cause I forgot the segments ends. Example: In R3C9 I only saw the 9, cause 5 and 7 couldnt be cause R4C9 was a 6. But the could, because R3C9 a new segment started.
at 28:50 box 8 kind of solves itself after he put the 4 via sudoku on the line. because if the 4 was a doubler it would push the doubler in box 7 (which is an 8) upwards thus forcing an 8 on the line which breaks the double 4. so the 4 on the line is a real 4 eliminating 3 from the line. which in turn means the top row becomes 1/2/3. 8 now has to be on the line solving the doubler in box 7 and puts the doubler on the line in box 8 which can neither be 4 or 8. 123 at the top is part of a nabner which means 2 has to be left side of the box, forcing 1 in the middle because of the black dot and 3 on the right. beautiful logic
30:30 Box 9 - think about the possibility of 5, 8, forced 2 plus another non doubled cell on the same nabner...
1:36:53 first time I've actually bothered to try to solve a doubler puzzle, might do some more in the future
I'm freaking out, I can't imagine how Jessica is doing!
Loving the rat run puzzles, but this one was brutal. Didn't help that I made a mistake, shelved it for two weeks, and when I got back I had forgotten about the X constraint...
Dude, what is up with Jessica, she ok?! 😂
I found it quite interesting that exactly 1 box was visited completely (box 4) and exactly 1 row was visited completely (row 4), but oddly there are two columns that were visited completely (columns 3 and 4). It would be much more intriguing if the puzzle could somehow be modified so that exactly 1 column was fully visited too, and it would be even better if we have exactly only box 4, row 4 and column 4 being visited fully!
16:40 yeap, I went forward to see if Simon was right about the path. 😂
47:42
Finkz just keeps getting smarter! 🐁
I had dreadful trouble with this one due to making mistakes. At first I didn't spot that the line could go from box 8 to box 5 and then back into box 8, which caused me a great deal of confusion when I got to a contradiction several times in a row. Then I mistakenly ruled out 5 as the doubler in the bottom of box 8 and thought I got to the end of the puzzle, only to be told my solution was wrong. I had to use the checker to figure out that placing the 5 as the doubler in box 1 was wrong, then I finally managed to limp home to the end. Loved the puzzle, my brain just not up to it today apparently.
finished in 87:32 min. Still proud, I didn't think I'd make it through. Also it was solved over two days and paused multiple times.
And I think some numbers of normal people with normal lives are missing here 😉
I was looking forward to this video - because I failed Finkz in this maze :(
#FreeFinkz She needs to escape into an 11x11, still waiting on it :D
Great stuff, I think this is my favourite of these puzzles so far. But I think I have managed to slip up on just about every one at some point due to losing the 3x3 boxes amid all the graphics.
58:16 these are getting trickier and trickier!
Marty Sears reminds me of ABBA. Consistently releasing hit after hit after hit.
I’ll take that! Love a bit of ABBA
One word… Amazing!
Can you tell youtube to release videos at a specific time or do you have to be present and do it all directly?
@@Ardalambdion You can tell YT to publish at a set time - but obviously, it has to be uploaded by then… which I think was the problem today…
Even though commonly agreed this is the hardest one so far, I'm proud to say I finished this one without any help in 2:02:20; even though I didn't solve all the easier ones without help.
Even solved it the harder way around the r67c45 2x2 as the wall in the center of that 2x2 is very pale on mobile. I managed to get the digits around the wall, but feared the path won't get disambiguated until the very end, a bit before I cleared up the 579 triple in box 1, when I finally noticed the wall. I don't understand why everything in the phone app is much more pale.
ARTWORK PUZZLE...!
I got the break in and got pretty far but then got stuck. I love finx puzzles!
Why are you reading the comments Jessica? You have to wake up!
I didn't understand the Jessica thing. Would you mind explaining please?
@@andrewdipplecomedy 3:40 in the video
Someone made a Patreon Birthday request to troll a Jessica, so I thought I would join in :)
Took me a little over 95min. The double whammy of nabners and doublers was almost too much lol
Another hard one. I had to restart too many times. The logic flowed well though, so it's a good puzzle. I think I have to agree with Simon, I don't like Nabner rules.
Would love to see Simon solve a monstrous Chaos construction rat run puzzle.
I don’t how it’d be set. But it would be glorious.
And it would be a three-hour video. Check your popcorn supplies, folks!
Word of the day: Pencilmarkable
Love me a Rat run puzzle
Wake up Jessica
I was confused about the 'Red X' rule. I thought the instruction that said not all Red X's are given meant that any combination that added to 10 would not be allowed on the path.
Tough one, the pathing on this was especially confusing but I eventually got there after a few wrong turns.
As much as I enjoyed the whole Rat Run series, this one was my least favorite.
The rules weren’t clear to me, and basically, the situation that Simon reached around 39:02 was the point that blocked me with this puzzle for about an hour until I gave up and used puzzle validation to make sure I hadn’t made an error.
What I mean is this: In the 4th block, the rat’s path goes through the pair 8-2.
For me, this conflicted with the Forbidden Door rule: "FORBIDDEN DOORS: The values of cells connected by a red X sum to 10. Finkz may never pass through a red X. Not all possible Xs have been given."
The part "Not all possible Xs have been given" was the confusing element for me. I understood it to mean that nowhere on the path should there be neighboring cells summing up to ten. But Apparently it is not a rule since there are 3 expectations on path: 8-2 pair in Block 4. and 6-4 pair in block 9; 9-1 pair in block 2 and 3-7 in 7
So, my question to you all is: How should I understand that rule?
The rule means "where you see a red X, you can conclude that the two cells it connects add to ten, but you cannot conclude that if two cells are not separated by a red X they must not add to 10".
@@Tiranasta But that's not what the rule says.
@@itap8880 Mostly it's just standard convention. By "Not all possible Xs have been given", it means "there may be some places in the puzzle where the constructor *could* have placed an X (because two neighbouring cells add to ten) but didn't". Occasionally you'll get a puzzle which instead says something like "All possible Xs have been given.", and then you CAN assume that if two orthogonally adjacent cells don't have an X between them they must not add to ten. I agree that the wording could be potentially ambiguous to someone who hasn't encountered this rule before, but to anyone that has it's a really standard way of wording it and we know what it means.
As an example, there *could* have been an X between R7C2 and R7C3, as they do add to ten in the final solution and the path doesn't pass between them. But there wasn't.
@@Tiranasta By "Not all possible Xs have been given", the setter implies some Xs are "not given". And what do you do with "not given"s in a sudoku? You fill them in according to other rules of the puzzle.
@@itap8880 I mean, I agreed that the wording is potentially ambiguous to people not familiar with the rule (but as I said, this is a standard rule type worded in a standard way). But I also think your interpretation here is a stretch. You *can* fill in Xs in these puzzles if you really want to (the difference would be purely cosmetic), but you have to make sure the Xs you put in follow *all* the rules that Xs have to follow. Which in this puzzle means you have to not just make sure that two adjacent cells sum to ten, but also that the path does not go directly between them. Otherwise any X you place between them will be invalid.
I also think you're not paying enough attention to the word "possible". It's not "Not all Xs have been given",. which would imply that there are some Xs that haven't been given. It's "Not all *possible* Xs have been given", which only implies what I said in the comments above.
31:00 Am I missing something?
Why can the three cells in box 8 not be 8 double2 and 1? that satisfies the nabner, and the blackcurrent, without going into box 5.
edit, i see it, it would force 3 onto the bottom row, where it cant be in box 8 because of the 4 on the nabner there..