LeBron getting hurt right before this is certainly unfortunate timing... Sam Hinkie deep dive! - ua-cam.com/video/zENZlOOYiq0/v-deo.html New Podcast Episode! - ua-cam.com/video/x29HxaXCAtk/v-deo.html
Stats aren't everything rusty giannis clearly isn't an mvp guy yet he could be but the truth is he has too many holes that's why he gets exposed in the playoffs every year..... LeBron should've won last year in 19 Harden was better or kd I mean he's just not on those guys level it's clear if you watch the games at least imo it is. I think Dame should win it this year! He deserves it
@@ag7367 It doesn't really matter who is better. It just matters who performed better in the regular season. Giannis was just better in the regular season.
Just a guess, but it could be the length of the NBA season, once you include the playoffs. The ‘best’ players generally focus on championships - which often means not going all out during the regular season.
Easy because there is no consistency in how the award is given out, they'll give Russell the MVP as the 7th seed but not Kobe in 06, they'll give Nash the MVP avg 15 ppg over guys like shaq wade Dirk ,etc.🙄 the nba MVP award has consistency problems.
@@colewrld901 I mean not really. That year is mostly an outlier Besides the wesbrrook year, they were actually the 4th seed btw. The mvp most of the time goes to the best player on the best team, record wise. Usually. And if it doesn't then it goes to a guy with crazy stats on a top 3 team.
@@colewrld901 Russ was an exception because of his record breaking season and great narrative, Nash had a better record, and Kobi didn't have a high enough seed. For the most part, the award had been pretty consistent except for a few exceptions here and there.
I remember when it was just a silver trash can on his profile pic. Been here since 3k subs. I also YounGala self promoting on Andy Hoops channel when he only had 180 subs. Now he has 20k. Good stuff.
He definitely deserves more than four mvps however it doesnt mean he shouldve gotten them. One example is 2011 lebron deserved that mvp however so did rose which why he got it cause he deserved it more.
What I hate about this conversation is that whenever it comes up, some former MVPs will be disrespected and people will happily quote stats and neglect context in order to push this narrative. The best player isn't always the most valuable and that's ok.
Thats a problem its a narritive driven reason why the wont give it to him a cuz couple more he ties jordan sm reason why he didnt get dpoy in 2013 cuz he wouldve bern 3rd to win both in a season
I think somethings that get left out of the 2018 MVP are: 1) Kyrie being traded to Boston (by demand) vs Chris Paul joining the Rockets 2) The complete roster swap that was made at the trade deadline for the Cavs 3) Mike D'antoni as a coach vs Ty Lue 4) Kevin Love being injured for a significant portion of that season That Cavs team was made with the intention of supporting a big 3. They lost Kyrie (who was the 3rd or 4th best PG in the league at the time) and got back an injured IT. Pair that with Kevin Love being riddled with injuries all season long (he came back from final set of injuries mid play offs) and the roster overhaul that happened at the deadline, it was pretty much Lebron and an 11 man bench playing that season.
@@TheNamesDitto 2020 Conferences were quite even. I'd say the East had more legit title contenders Bucks Celtics Raptors Heat while the West had only 2 Lakers and Clippers
No, its because the lakers roster was basically shit expect of lebron and AD and giannis had Middleton who were one of the most efficient players in the league, brook lopez who was a top 8 dpoy candidate, eric bledsoe who were a really good player and a top 7 defensive guard, george hill who suddenly decided to actually be a very good 3 and D player and donte divicenzo which was very underated and a top 10 six man of the year
There's also definitely an issue of people just looking at the number of MVP's somebody has and saying "this doesn't feel like enough" or "this feels like too many" because they're seeing MVP awards as a measure of greatness entirely. Having more MVP awards doesn't make somebody a better player than somebody with less. All it means is that they had the *best regular season performance* that many times. This is kind of a thing in a lot of sports. Looking at Drew Brees, people act shocked that he never won MVP, which yeah, is wild, bc he's amazing. But if you look at every season, his best seasons have just come during years where other players were doing something more impressive. Brees' 2011 campaign would have been enough to win him MVP most seasons, it was just bad luck at Aaron Rodgers happened to be having a career year of his own at the same time. Brees is better than a lot of players with MVP awards, his best seasons just came at worse times. Likewise, Steve Nash has 2 MVP's, while Shaq and Kobe each only have 1, but I don't think anybody's arguing that Steve Nash is greater all-time than Kobe or Shaq.
As a LeBron fan I think that he deserves at least one more. I think you should've talked about 2006, he had a really good case that year. Good video Rusty
He did address 2006 at the end of the video. Cavs were a 4th seed in a weak Eastern conference. Yes his statistical numbers are superior than the actual winner in Nash, but if you're using stats as an argument, Kobe has just as much of an argument for mvp, but like Lebron he wasn't a 1 or 2 seed in his respective conference. If there was anyone who should have won mvp over Nash, it was Dirk ahead of both Lebron or Kobe. He lead his team to 60 wins (although a 4th seed do to the seeding rules with division winners, since the spurs won more games that season than the Mavs, though the Mavs won the second most wins in the West) as the only all-star on his team with mvp caliber statistics. So if anyone deserved mvp over Nash, I would say it was Dirk not Lebron. So no, Lebron deserves his 4 mvps no more no less. Every other year there was someone who was more deserving.
@@AstroSully eh. Bron averaged 28, 9, and 9 on 54% from the field and 37% from three. Harden averaged 30, 5, and 9 on 45% from the field and 37% from three. Their stats were pretty close and I'd say bron had a much worse team.
Answer: No Listen 2011 D rose took a worst team with injuries to a better record 2014: same with KD 2015: he took 2 weeks off and had a worst record than Curry 2016: no debate 2017: he wasn’t in the picture 2018: Harden won more games and beat him both times they played 2019: injured 2020: no real debate
Im so glad this video was made. I get so tired of arguing with the lebron stans about this...its really not that difficult. best player in the league does not equal mvp every year.
He had a strong case to be in it. He was carrying the Lakers to the top seed without Ad and other players missing games. He's actually a good defender. Lakers are gonna struggle without their two stars
@@karthiksabareesh2869 Nope, it's Jokic or Giannis. Giannis has better numbers than dame across the board and his team has the better record. Jokic has had a MVP type season too, so he's for sure in the race for sure.
it's funny how people think the 2020 lakers roster was good only after they won the chip, I'm old enough to remember when they were talking trash about the lakers depth before the 2020 finals
@@capindortos3122 nope, Kobe won it fair and square, and he proved he was the mvp by destroying the same spurs in the wcf that cp3 lost to in 7 games in the 2nd round 🤷
5:55 Absolutely. If you look at predictions for 2017, most had Rockets scraping into the playoffs or even missing out. People forgot all about this being totally blinded by Westbrooks triple-double, while Harden took them to the 2nd seed (while almost averaging a triple-double).
4:58 and even if it wasn't Westbrook or Harden, LeBron still wouldn't have won it. Kawhi would've won it. Kawhi won even more games than the Spurs and Thunder while being top 3 in DPOY.
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 what do you mean?? MVP = Most Valuable Player. Without Russ OKC wouldn't even win 20 games!! Put prime 2017 Russ in a D'antoni system or have him coached by Popp...
@@billpap.9669 put prime 2017 Russ in the Spurs or Houston and I'll guarantee they will win less games than before impact is more than just about the numbers. Russ clearly had an MVP caliber system but objectively that was the most narrative won MVP we'll see in a very long time
@@billpap.9669 have him coached by pop? Pop the no bs coach who will stand up to his players and hold them accountable and get in their face if need be with russ? Yeah okay russ has never been a player to care what the coach says and does his own thing and pop will bench him for it
@@billpap.9669 That's such a stupid argument. If you take any superstar off of a team that doesn't have a second star obviously they would win way less games. That doesn't mean they all deserve MVP. It should go to the best player it shouldn't be determined by these dumb narratives that are impossible to even quantify.
Even the idea that the narrative is against Lebron is false. Lebron started off as the front runner for mvp because the media’s “analysts” projected him to win before the season even started. He was number one until Embiid and Jokic started literally dropping 50 bombs. The media routinely praises Lebron and have Goat conversations every day despite him not even being a retired player. They consistently highlight even the most trivial things to capitalize on the promotion of their superstars. The media loves Bron trust.
? They praise anybody who’s playing at an elite level. It just so happens that Bron has been an elite consistently, KD was pushed to win mvp, now harden is apparently on par with Bron after a month, and Embiid for the most part was ahead of Bron.
exactly, media always talking about bron trying to shift the opinion and perspective of the fans. mostly because lebron is the most marketable player even today.
@@MrSlashblade I said that the league consistently tries to highlight trivial things to capitalize on the promotion of their superstars. Durant and harden are superstars. So I agree with your point.
When I think of an MVP robbery I think of 97 MJ leading the Bulls to 69 wins, putting up 29 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, and 2 steals on 48/37/83 shooting
Yeah, looking back on that Steve Nash one. I see what you mean. Initially, I thought LeBron should have won it but then looking at what Dirk did, yea.. he deserves it.
The arguable one is the 2011 MVP. But, I'd say Rose and D12 actually deserved it more than James that year. But every year James is in the top 3 candidates so he could've won another 1 or 2 somewhere
Nah it's All Rose on this one LeBron might have had slightly better Stats but Rose had the best record in the League on a considerably worse roster than LeBron
I don't think so. We can make the argument that he should have won it in 2011 because he was a better candidate than D. Rose (leading the league in like 7 categories while being elite on both ends), however, that doesn't mean that D. Rose didn't deserve it or something, he had the narrative going by his side (youngest mvp ever, carrying the Bulls, LeBron was the villian and voter fatigues), and the wins to back up his case.
2018 imo was his strongest case, if you instead look at the season total stats LeBron had Harden beat across every category by a decent margin but I do understand that it went to him since they were the 1 seed and finished with 65 wins.
The rockets were the #1 seed and harden led the most consistent team all year. Y’all forget the turmoil on that team in the first part of the season and once IT came back from injury. They were a mess and had to make big trades. Harden deserved that. Lebron made his run after the trade deadline but by then it was too late. Harden was clear #1.
LeBron is the best player of his generation, that is the ultimate honour. You can’t win MVP’s simply because going into a season you are recognised as the best player.
*You definitely need a top 2 seed. I think since 1988, apart from Westbrook, the only non 2-seed to win MVP was Karl Malone. And the Jazz were tied with 2nd for wins (I think).
bruh harden had similar stats & better advanced stats and led his team to 65 wins with cp3 missing 24 games eric gordon missing 13 ariza missing 15 games and capela missed 8 games
“Cj2cool” nah you can’t use that excuse CP3 missed like a quarter of the season and the rockets were still on a 60 win pace without him because of Harden
I think the problem is, in a vacuum if you say "with the career he's had and the impact he had on the game 4 mvps are too few for LeBron, he should have won more" I will agree. But context matter, and if I go back and put him up vs who actually won I wouldn't switch once.
LeBron's only missed MVP award was after he pissed everyone off with "The Decision" and it went to Derrick Rose because or he was a better story. The Award since has been awarded to guys who were just as obviously deserving like KD, Westbrook, Steph, Harden, and Giannis each year.
Short answer: No Long answer: Every player who has won it over him has deserved the award. From DRose in 2011 to 2018 Harden. I feel like many people say that he deserved more awards without using context because he is one of the greatest players of all time and he plays extremely well in the playoffs(something that means nothing to the MVP convo as it is a regular season award)
How do you hold being in the East against earlier but then ignore him being in the West as a bonus later? Also, if defense counts for Giannis, why not LeBron in the years that harden/Westbrook/Steph won?
1st because the East is much better than it was when LeBron was there 2nd because Giannis had much better numbers and it wasn't even close 3rd because Giannis was the DPOY and not just a good defender 4th because AD was actually leading the Lakers in more statistical categories
Everyone just shits on my boy Russ' MVP😞😞😞. Not calling Rusty a hater just sucks that Westbrooks biggest achievement in his career is considered undeserved by many Great video tho Rusty
As Rusty said, there was a strong narrative to Russ’ win. Russ also averaged a triple double the next two seasons, but didn’t come close to winning the MVP - people had caught on to the fact that those stats aren’t the be all and end all.
@@michaelcollins966 I kno what u mean cuz narrative really did help him out but those following seasons he had a better team, and even tho he avg a triple double I thought the thing that really pushed it was the fact that he had 42 triple doubles in am 82 game season
@@emmanuelc316 no dude you're right everyone disrespects it these days because everyone hates russ these days. i haven't seen anyone compliment it. its not fair but we cant do anything about it
Giannis was playing 30 minutes a game, too, and still getting crazy per game numbers. Per 100 possessions, he slaughters LeBron. The Bucks were decimating teams and were, imo, one of the all time great teams (regular season).
As great of a player Lebron is individually his teams have typically sandbagged in the regular season, at least in much of the 2010's. In the late 2000's Lebron led much less talented Cavs teams to 60+ wins in his MVP years and for the Heat his numbers were absolutely insane while leading the Heat to 54/66 wins in his MVP years. All his 2010's Cavs and Laker teams have arguably underperformed in the regular season despite having great rosters for the most part, this effects MVP's big time.
I’ll be real, as you stated for Giannis and his defense, I think u should also factor in defensive numbers for mvps since I don’t know defense numbers or impact but I think he’d take at least 1 factoring in defense
Lebron in 2010-11 (Where Rose won MVP) VoRP: #1 with 7.8 (1.1 ahead of Rose at #2) Box +/-: #1 with 8.1 (1.3 ahead of Rose at #3) WS/48: #1 with 0.244 (0.36 ahead of Rose at #10) PER: #1 with 27.3 (3.8 ahead of Rose at #9) WS: #1 with 15.6 (2.5 ahead of Rose at #5) The only thing Rose had over Lebron in that season was Standings with Bulls being 62-20 with best record in the league but the Heat were 58-24 for 3rd best record in the league. Also I think a lot of people discredit Rose's bulls team. They were a well rounded team. They were the best defensive team in the league. The vote in 2010-11 was purely out of spite. The voters just needed a reason to not vote for Lebron and the Bulls gave it to them.
Yes and No. I'm a huge LeBron fan for my whole life, but each of the years he should've won, there actual winners deserved the MVP award more. Also, I think the only year I could say he could have won was 2018 over Harden.
Man stop it Harden averaged 30 points, 9 assists, and 6 rebounds while leading the rockets to 65 wins in the west with CP3 missing a quarter of the season with injuries Harden deserved his MVP and it wasn’t close you LeBron fans are delusional
@@semionjohnson1351 dang bro i didn't push that LeBron SHOULD have won it. I just said that he had a case. I know very well Harden deserved it that year - he got snubbed in 2017. It's just that except 2019 and 2016, LeBron has a case for MVP every year after 2014.
The problem is that most valuable kind of makes it impossible for it to not be him every single year. Nobody is more valuable and I don’t think anybody can really dispute that
I think we need to consider not thinking in terms of MVPs won, but instead either MVP caliber seasons or top-3 MVP finishes. Only one player can win MVP, but many players can have MVP caliber season. James Harden has 5 finishes in the top 3 of MVP voting which wouldn’t be recognized if we only cared he has only won once.
Rusty, how much do u think post season success plays into the minds of the media voters? Like how the 2018 rockets almost beat the Kd warriors, do u think that gave him more of an argument or do u think they’re honest when the media ppl say they base it solely on Regular season stats?
Yikes , these people don't understand true shooting percentage and effective fg%. Here is an extreme example. Golbert ha sa higher fg% than Story Curry yet no one would say Steph Curry is less efficent at scoring because Steph Curry takes way more threes. 3 pts is higher than 2 and Harden took way more threes and at a good percentage but that will knock your overall percentage down if you don't understand the term "context". Hence why no modern NBA analyst who knows what they are talking about like Rusty wouldn't use regular fg%. Harden also got to the line a lot more. Harden had a way higher efg% and ts%. Please, when you say this stuff it instantly shows that you are a causal NBA fan.
Imo Russ deserved that 2017 mvp simply bc of averaging a 30 point triple double. I can definitely see the argument for Harden and I wouldn’t have been upset if Harden won it but averaging a triple double is no joke.
Really similar to my thinking here. The only one I'd disagree with is 2018 (which you had as the closest call). LeBron's better rebounding evens out the point differential, leaving a slight difference in ast and efficiency in LBJ's favour. His team sucked, so I think he carried them to 50 wins, which should outweigh the fact that their record wasn't that great. So maybe he should have five, but no he's not getting robbed.
Unpopular opinion: it’s easier to make a case as curry being the goat then it is for Kobe Bryant I’m not saying curry is better it’s just his case is stronger and unique while Kobe is a patched mj
i agree, Kobe is definitely better than curry but it’s just Kobe is similar to mj that he doesn’t have a case that stands out to be the greatest of all time
What they really need to do is rename the award to reflect what it really means, so these arguments are finished. The fact a sentence like "People think the MVP award means you're the most valuable player in the league, but that's just not the case" is true, is just weird.
D Rose deserved that mvp and I will die on that hill. Really just nobody wanted to give the ring to the guy who was on a superteam and Rose had a better record while not being on a superteam. Like imagine if Rose had bosh and wade. Easy championship. So it’s justified.
Lebron steps up and stands out even more in the playoffs and tends to cost more in the regular season. The MVP is regular season award, and I think that explains why he has less mvps than pale would expect
No, as being the best player doesn't equate to the most valuable player in every season. He should have won the best player award if the NBA gave one out but most valuable is a debatable subject every season.
Russell Westbrook hit the most game-winners in a season ever, I believe it was 7, so he individually won them those 8 games. he also lead many comebacks that season as well. he also lead the league in 4th quarter points with TEN, post all star averaged ELEVEN AND A HALF and lead the league in clutch points with 6.2. he brought back the thunder from games down 14 (game tying shot), scored 12 points in the final 3:30 and hit game winner, scored last 15 points and hit buzzer beater (infamous nuggets season ending shot), 15-0 run by HIMSELF in the final 2:35 to beat grizzlies, scored 11 of last 13 and hit game winner, scored last 19 of 22, the whole season was the Russel Westbrook show. it was amazing to watch, if you take away all the game winners alone are they a playoff team? and without the rest of his impact they're bottom of the league.
I think a lot of this comes down to nba fans thinking runner up to mvp is just a loser. LeBron has been top 3 in mvp for nearly his entire career. Whether he’s one or not he’s been mvp level every year in the 2010s. Doesn’t matter to casuals though. LeBum didn’t win every mvp so he sucks 🙄
I respectfully disagree that Harden should've won 2017. I believed that Kawhi should've won MVP in 2017. The Spurs were the 2nd best team in the league, they lost their greatest player in Tim Duncan in retirement and Kawhi was expected to shoulder the load even more, which he has. He played his best season as a Spur and still managed to lead them to 60 wins.
I understand why they gave it to him, first triple double season since Oscar. But is they knew how common it would become then they might have thought differently
The only MVP Lebron arguably "deserved" was 2011. But the voters wanted to award a up and coming new star who was on the best team record wise in the league. I don't think Derrick Rose was the best regular season player in the NBA in 2011, but being the best player on the best team is often good enough to win MVP so I don't have a huge problem with it.
He averaged 2 more rebounds than harden. He had almost as much support as harden yet was wayyyy off in the standings. I'm not sure how he deserves that mvp. Even if it's not james harden kawhi also had a pretty good case. I'd say I put those two ahead of westbrook
@@scordatura9259 did you just say that Russ had "almost as much support as Harden"?? Are you kidding me?? Harden had an entire system built around him with spacing & shooting, he had 3&D guys Beverley & Ariza, a legit stretch 4 in Anderson, the SMOTY & 3pt contest winner Eric Gordon and great rolling bigs in Capela, Nene & Harrell. OKC's second leading scorer in the playoffs was Andre Roberson who shot 17% from the FT line!!
@@billpap.9669 Sure harden had multiple 3 and d supporting cast but who else was there. Ariza wasn't even a really good 3 and d player and beverly can't even shoot that season. Besides did you notice anything strange regarding russ's teammates after that season? Did they suddenly just improve and become all star caliber players without russ? Also even if we're just talking abt the players in their state at the time roberson was easily a top 2 perimeter defender and is very valuable despite his lack of jumpshot and adams was one of the best centers at that time
@@scordatura9259 Russell Westbrook hit the most game-winners in a season ever, I believe it was 7, so he individually won them those 8 games. he also lead many comebacks that season as well. he also lead the league in 4th quarter points with TEN, post all star averaged ELEVEN AND A HALF and lead the league in clutch points with 6.2. he brought back the thunder from games down 14 (game tying shot), scored 12 points in the final 3:30 and hit game winner, scored last 15 points and hit buzzer beater (infamous nuggets season ending shot), 15-0 run by HIMSELF in the final 2:35 to beat grizzlies, scored 11 of last 13 and hit game winner, scored last 19 of 22, the whole season was the Russel Westbrook show. it was amazing to watch, if you take away all the game winners alone are they a playoff team? and without the rest of his impact they're bottom of the league.
Why ppl never mention Lebron asked for that team and literally Played LEGM in 2018 by trading Dwade, IT, Drose etc midseason at random and was happy they got younger and more athletic with Larry nance jr etc 😂😂😂 Can we tell the Whole Story with context
You can comfortably argue he should have 3 and not 4. 2012 MVP is highly questionable. Narrative won him that award. Miami had 4th best record with Lebron having 2 all stars with him. KD should have gotten it. From 2014 Lebron James onwards there was no MVP he should have won. Players had better seasons than him except Westbrook season which Harden should have won.
We could say LeBron, KD and Harden were the best players between 2016-2019, but the stats and the narratives played agaisnt them in most of the years to win the MVP.
I think the reason this is a debate is because of the actual criteria. If the mvp was actually the MVP and based on the best player any other sport would, Lebron would have more than 4 considering he has been the undisputed best player in the NBA for years
Rusty, your precedent argument is wrong. Because there IS precedent for an MVP winning with a lower record. Do some more research. It's not unprecedented. It's just very rare. This is a problem with the MVP as a whole. 1976: Kareem MISSES THE PLAYOFFS, with a 40-42 record. He wins MVP. 1979: Moses Malone wins MVP with a 47-35 record. That was the 4th seed in the conference. 1982: Moses Malone again wins MVP with a 46-36 record. It was 6th best in the conference (keep in mind that only 12 teams made the playoffs at that time). Bird that same season led the Celtics to a 63-19 record in the East.
LeBron getting hurt right before this is certainly unfortunate timing...
Sam Hinkie deep dive! - ua-cam.com/video/zENZlOOYiq0/v-deo.html
New Podcast Episode! - ua-cam.com/video/x29HxaXCAtk/v-deo.html
Bad timing bro
He just got hurt
what about 2006 ?
Stats aren't everything rusty giannis clearly isn't an mvp guy yet he could be but the truth is he has too many holes that's why he gets exposed in the playoffs every year..... LeBron should've won last year in 19 Harden was better or kd I mean he's just not on those guys level it's clear if you watch the games at least imo it is. I think Dame should win it this year! He deserves it
@@ag7367 It doesn't really matter who is better. It just matters who performed better in the regular season.
Giannis was just better in the regular season.
Literally no other sport has this kind of problem with their MVPs awards. I don't understand why NBA fans can't understand what makes someone an MVP
Just a guess, but it could be the length of the NBA season, once you include the playoffs. The ‘best’ players generally focus on championships - which often means not going all out during the regular season.
Easy because there is no consistency in how the award is given out, they'll give Russell the MVP as the 7th seed but not Kobe in 06, they'll give Nash the MVP avg 15 ppg over guys like shaq wade Dirk ,etc.🙄 the nba MVP award has consistency problems.
@@colewrld901 I mean not really. That year is mostly an outlier Besides the wesbrrook year, they were actually the 4th seed btw. The mvp most of the time goes to the best player on the best team, record wise. Usually. And if it doesn't then it goes to a guy with crazy stats on a top 3 team.
@@colewrld901 Russ was an exception because of his record breaking season and great narrative, Nash had a better record, and Kobi didn't have a high enough seed. For the most part, the award had been pretty consistent except for a few exceptions here and there.
Its because the voters change what mvp means every year
If anything, this shows how good he has been over his career. You can knock him for a lot, but you can’t knock him for how damn consistent this man is
wade bosh irving love ad. only 4 championships. pathetic
Foreal. No one has had more longevity than Lebron. Thats what really makes him the goat
@@tiktokexposed898 Karl Malone and Kareem had a loooong and great careers too.
@@zerogabz1153 Agree but LBJ is the greatest 36 year-old in league history.
@@carlitocarlos597 mj was playing this good at age 39 give LeBron 3 more years to really see who's the best old player ever
So crazy to see the glow up from 60k to almost 150 k
frl i came around the 30-50k mark too rusty been blowin tf up fo a min now
I remember when it was just a silver trash can on his profile pic. Been here since 3k subs. I also YounGala self promoting on Andy Hoops channel when he only had 180 subs. Now he has 20k. Good stuff.
Throwback to his shitty mic and low energy 😭
Should’ve seen his old videos with the sheets up. OG days lol
@@kingdinodragonite3470 andy hoops so under rated its crazy
He definitely deserves more than four mvps however it doesnt mean he shouldve gotten them.
One example is 2011 lebron deserved that mvp however so did rose which why he got it cause he deserved it more.
thats the best way to put it, I phrased it as "deserved it more" here bc I made that mistake in the past with Russ
@@rustybuckets gotcha
Dwight deserved the 2011 MVP and finished ahead of LeBron in the vote
Drose had more wins, lebron had a big three drose had much less help.
@@shariff2192 which is why rose rose won it
Good timing rusty
Hey magic
I’m positive LeBron should have more MVPs
@@kencarson666 HIV positive?
@@Eight1Eight187 😂
Hi
Damn the timing of this 😞😭
Pain.
What you mean
@@Solznmid bron injured
Depression
Ok
What I hate about this conversation is that whenever it comes up, some former MVPs will be disrespected and people will happily quote stats and neglect context in order to push this narrative. The best player isn't always the most valuable and that's ok.
Truth
Y'all gonna act like he won only MVP in his career, dude he won 4 MVPs, only 3 or 4 players out of thousands that played in NBA have more than him
Michael Jordan and Kareem Abdul Jabbar have more that him
@@tajaytucker8415 Wilt also have more as well and idk about Bill Russell
@@chanendlerbong Wilt hams just as much as LeBron. Russell has 5
Thats a problem its a narritive driven reason why the wont give it to him a cuz couple more he ties jordan sm reason why he didnt get dpoy in 2013 cuz he wouldve bern 3rd to win both in a season
@@MarkelScott100 nobody cares about him tying Jordan players just have had better numbers and team records
I think somethings that get left out of the 2018 MVP are:
1) Kyrie being traded to Boston (by demand) vs Chris Paul joining the Rockets
2) The complete roster swap that was made at the trade deadline for the Cavs
3) Mike D'antoni as a coach vs Ty Lue
4) Kevin Love being injured for a significant portion of that season
That Cavs team was made with the intention of supporting a big 3. They lost Kyrie (who was the 3rd or 4th best PG in the league at the time) and got back an injured IT. Pair that with Kevin Love being riddled with injuries all season long (he came back from final set of injuries mid play offs) and the roster overhaul that happened at the deadline, it was pretty much Lebron and an 11 man bench playing that season.
A lot of leBron james fans say that in 2020 he deserves is cause of the ring but they “forgot” that its just a regular season award.
THANK YOU!!!! The MVP is a regular season award
i know
the Bucks were in an easier conference
@@TheNamesDitto 2020 Conferences were quite even. I'd say the East had more legit title contenders Bucks Celtics Raptors Heat while the West had only 2 Lakers and Clippers
No, its because the lakers roster was basically shit expect of lebron and AD and giannis had Middleton who were one of the most efficient players in the league, brook lopez who was a top 8 dpoy candidate, eric bledsoe who were a really good player and a top 7 defensive guard, george hill who suddenly decided to actually be a very good 3 and D player and donte divicenzo which was very underated and a top 10 six man of the year
camera looks much better!
Ok
@@LemurJackson casual
There's also definitely an issue of people just looking at the number of MVP's somebody has and saying "this doesn't feel like enough" or "this feels like too many" because they're seeing MVP awards as a measure of greatness entirely. Having more MVP awards doesn't make somebody a better player than somebody with less. All it means is that they had the *best regular season performance* that many times. This is kind of a thing in a lot of sports. Looking at Drew Brees, people act shocked that he never won MVP, which yeah, is wild, bc he's amazing. But if you look at every season, his best seasons have just come during years where other players were doing something more impressive. Brees' 2011 campaign would have been enough to win him MVP most seasons, it was just bad luck at Aaron Rodgers happened to be having a career year of his own at the same time. Brees is better than a lot of players with MVP awards, his best seasons just came at worse times. Likewise, Steve Nash has 2 MVP's, while Shaq and Kobe each only have 1, but I don't think anybody's arguing that Steve Nash is greater all-time than Kobe or Shaq.
“That’s why he ONLY has *FOUR* MVPs”🤣🤣
As a LeBron fan I think that he deserves at least one more. I think you should've talked about 2006, he had a really good case that year. Good video Rusty
He did address 2006 at the end of the video. Cavs were a 4th seed in a weak Eastern conference. Yes his statistical numbers are superior than the actual winner in Nash, but if you're using stats as an argument, Kobe has just as much of an argument for mvp, but like Lebron he wasn't a 1 or 2 seed in his respective conference. If there was anyone who should have won mvp over Nash, it was Dirk ahead of both Lebron or Kobe. He lead his team to 60 wins (although a 4th seed do to the seeding rules with division winners, since the spurs won more games that season than the Mavs, though the Mavs won the second most wins in the West) as the only all-star on his team with mvp caliber statistics. So if anyone deserved mvp over Nash, I would say it was Dirk not Lebron. So no, Lebron deserves his 4 mvps no more no less. Every other year there was someone who was more deserving.
@@aaronjykim lebrons still better than your favorite player
@@sheluvrenji who's my favorite player? Lol
@@aaronjykim doesn’t even matter tbh
@@sheluvrenji so why you bring it up? Lol
He could and maybe should have more mvps but I can’t necessarily disagree with others who have won them in his stead
Most if them only yr i fell he got robbed was 2018 but the ones other than that well deserve
@@MarkelScott100 Not really Harden put up better numbers and had a way better record in the West.
@@AstroSully eh. Bron averaged 28, 9, and 9 on 54% from the field and 37% from three. Harden averaged 30, 5, and 9 on 45% from the field and 37% from three. Their stats were pretty close and I'd say bron had a much worse team.
@@dabalo3995 Still 65 wins compared to 50 is a lot. Especially when Harden played in the Western conference.
@@AstroSully true.
Make video about 2021 MVP race, maybe even a deep dive. Big respect, appreciate your work.
Answer: No
Listen 2011 D rose took a worst team with injuries to a better record
2014: same with KD
2015: he took 2 weeks off and had a worst record than Curry
2016: no debate
2017: he wasn’t in the picture
2018: Harden won more games and beat him both times they played
2019: injured
2020: no real debate
The bulls had a better record by 4 wins and it was mostly their elite defense, in which rose was the worst defender
@@stopplzs Noah and Boozer got injured
Rooting for Dame now. Want him to have one . And this is the perfect time ⌚
Jokic is playing insane
If the award went to the best player then yes
Yep, Kobe would have like 3 and bron would have like 6
You could say that about Jordan as well even though he still won 5 he could of won 10 or however many.
It doesn’t and never has or MJ world have at least 8. Shut up.
@@vintagemonte Then there was no point to make to video. Shut up.
@@vintagemonte he said "IF", you know what does that mean?
Im so glad this video was made. I get so tired of arguing with the lebron stans about this...its really not that difficult. best player in the league does not equal mvp every year.
well he aint getting one this year cause he is out indefinitely cause of that ankle sprain .
He had a strong case to be in it. He was carrying the Lakers to the top seed without Ad and other players missing games. He's actually a good defender. Lakers are gonna struggle without their two stars
Just like Embiid, Joel was the MVP but got hurt obviously. Giannis MVP now, 30 ppg, 11, 6. There in 3rd and could move up to 2nd.
@@tj5180 he wasn't even in the top 3 recently before the injury.
With Embiid injured, if he doesn't get it( he should otherwise) , it's Jokic or Dame
@@noahfernandes7445 Nah there is a thing called voter fatigue they ain't giving it to him
@@karthiksabareesh2869 Nope, it's Jokic or Giannis. Giannis has better numbers than dame across the board and his team has the better record. Jokic has had a MVP type season too, so he's for sure in the race for sure.
it's funny how people think the 2020 lakers roster was good only after they won the chip, I'm old enough to remember when they were talking trash about the lakers depth before the 2020 finals
exactly.
Nah bron won mvp in all the right years, he couldve won more if he actually tried from 2014 to 2017. Kobe on the other hand deserved more
I agree
that argument cant be used with 2016 because no one was winning it over Curry
Chris Paul should have won the mvp in 2008
Facts, LeBron has been coasting in the regular season since 2015, and Kobe should have at least one more.
@@capindortos3122 nope, Kobe won it fair and square, and he proved he was the mvp by destroying the same spurs in the wcf that cp3 lost to in 7 games in the 2nd round 🤷
I feel like finishing in the top 3 or 5 in mvp voting should definitely have more weight in how you view a players greatness
5:55 Absolutely. If you look at predictions for 2017, most had Rockets scraping into the playoffs or even missing out. People forgot all about this being totally blinded by Westbrooks triple-double, while Harden took them to the 2nd seed (while almost averaging a triple-double).
And most had OKC as a lottery team. Your point?
4:58 and even if it wasn't Westbrook or Harden, LeBron still wouldn't have won it. Kawhi would've won it. Kawhi won even more games than the Spurs and Thunder while being top 3 in DPOY.
Kawhi 2017 was something else man back in his athletic prime.
I would have given him the MVP to him or Harden.
Russ was a deserving winner but not MVP
@@RANDOMZBOSSMAN1 what do you mean?? MVP = Most Valuable Player. Without Russ OKC wouldn't even win 20 games!! Put prime 2017 Russ in a D'antoni system or have him coached by Popp...
@@billpap.9669 put prime 2017 Russ in the Spurs or Houston and I'll guarantee they will win less games than before impact is more than just about the numbers.
Russ clearly had an MVP caliber system but objectively that was the most narrative won MVP we'll see in a very long time
@@billpap.9669 have him coached by pop? Pop the no bs coach who will stand up to his players and hold them accountable and get in their face if need be with russ? Yeah okay russ has never been a player to care what the coach says and does his own thing and pop will bench him for it
@@billpap.9669 That's such a stupid argument. If you take any superstar off of a team that doesn't have a second star obviously they would win way less games. That doesn't mean they all deserve MVP. It should go to the best player it shouldn't be determined by these dumb narratives that are impossible to even quantify.
Even the idea that the narrative is against Lebron is false. Lebron started off as the front runner for mvp because the media’s “analysts” projected him to win before the season even started. He was number one until Embiid and Jokic started literally dropping 50 bombs. The media routinely praises Lebron and have Goat conversations every day despite him not even being a retired player. They consistently highlight even the most trivial things to capitalize on the promotion of their superstars. The media loves Bron trust.
? They praise anybody who’s playing at an elite level. It just so happens that Bron has been an elite consistently, KD was pushed to win mvp, now harden is apparently on par with Bron after a month, and Embiid for the most part was ahead of Bron.
Not really. Different media outlets push different players
exactly, media always talking about bron trying to shift the opinion and perspective of the fans. mostly because lebron is the most marketable player even today.
@@MrSlashblade I said that the league consistently tries to highlight trivial things to capitalize on the promotion of their superstars. Durant and harden are superstars. So I agree with your point.
When I think of an MVP robbery I think of 97 MJ leading the Bulls to 69 wins, putting up 29 points, 5 rebounds, 4 assists, and 2 steals on 48/37/83 shooting
Rusty clutch with the content 🔥
Yeah, looking back on that Steve Nash one. I see what you mean. Initially, I thought LeBron should have won it but then looking at what Dirk did, yea.. he deserves it.
The arguable one is the 2011 MVP. But, I'd say Rose and D12 actually deserved it more than James that year. But every year James is in the top 3 candidates so he could've won another 1 or 2 somewhere
Nah it's All Rose on this one
LeBron might have had slightly better Stats but Rose had the best record in the League on a considerably worse roster than LeBron
Recently the MVP award is decided before the season even starts.
If that's true then Lebron would have won the award last year
Thank you rusty!!!! This is why this you're my favorite UA-cam channel. Honest opinions followed facts.
I don't think so. We can make the argument that he should have won it in 2011 because he was a better candidate than D. Rose (leading the league in like 7 categories while being elite on both ends), however, that doesn't mean that D. Rose didn't deserve it or something, he had the narrative going by his side (youngest mvp ever, carrying the Bulls, LeBron was the villian and voter fatigues), and the wins to back up his case.
2018 imo was his strongest case, if you instead look at the season total stats LeBron had Harden beat across every category by a decent margin but I do understand that it went to him since they were the 1 seed and finished with 65 wins.
Lebron played more games than Harden that season so his season totals are bigger than Hardens
Anyone who looks and bases MVP off of stat totals is doing it completely wrong. It’s per game stats, always has been, and rightfully should be.
The rockets were the #1 seed and harden led the most consistent team all year. Y’all forget the turmoil on that team in the first part of the season and once IT came back from injury. They were a mess and had to make big trades. Harden deserved that. Lebron made his run after the trade deadline but by then it was too late. Harden was clear #1.
LeBron is the best player of his generation, that is the ultimate honour. You can’t win MVP’s simply because going into a season you are recognised as the best player.
Exactly
*You definitely need a top 2 seed.
I think since 1988, apart from Westbrook, the only non 2-seed to win MVP was Karl Malone. And the Jazz were tied with 2nd for wins (I think).
2018 the only argument u can make that he deserved
I would say 2011 and 2018 are probably the only two season I would think he should of got it
bruh harden had similar stats & better advanced stats
and led his team to 65 wins with
cp3 missing 24 games
eric gordon missing 13
ariza missing 15 games
and capela missed 8 games
@@ganeshs8522 except Bron 2018 cavs was a bad offensive and defensive team, LeBron has a very strong case.
@Big Drop I’m not saying he should win it I’m saying it’s the only one where a good argument could be made
“Big Drop” exactly Harden was the MVP from start to finish in 2018 LeBron had no case whatsoever over Harden that year.
The only one that I even consider is the one in 2018 when he carried a sorry cavs team to the finals and won 50 games with a trash team
He also could’ve gotten it 2005-2006, or 2010-2011
Harden was just statistically crazy that year, he played in the west and mvp is a regular season award
@@Kilooma yeah he was a beast in 2018 that’s why I said considered
@@Kilooma but if we being fair he had cp3
“Cj2cool” nah you can’t use that excuse CP3 missed like a quarter of the season and the rockets were still on a 60 win pace without him because of Harden
I think the problem is, in a vacuum if you say "with the career he's had and the impact he had on the game 4 mvps are too few for LeBron, he should have won more" I will agree.
But context matter, and if I go back and put him up vs who actually won I wouldn't switch once.
LeBron's only missed MVP award was after he pissed everyone off with "The Decision" and it went to Derrick Rose because or he was a better story. The Award since has been awarded to guys who were just as obviously deserving like KD, Westbrook, Steph, Harden, and Giannis each year.
That should've been Dwight's. LeBron was 3rd in voting that year
no. Derick rose lead bulls to a better record with a way inferior roster. why do you guys always ignore that
he led the bulls to a better record than lebron's heat with WAY less help
And Boozer and Noah was injured during the season as well.
Short answer: No
Long answer: Every player who has won it over him has deserved the award. From DRose in 2011 to 2018 Harden. I feel like many people say that he deserved more awards without using context because he is one of the greatest players of all time and he plays extremely well in the playoffs(something that means nothing to the MVP convo as it is a regular season award)
05-06?
@@dylanb5714 I wouldn’t say so. Steve Nash won 50+ games without a second star in a competitive West averaging 19 and 11
Bro is saying with a straight face LeBron doesn't deserve more than 4 MVPs
Greeeeeeat timing, bro. 😫
Lebron needs more Oscar's for that acting send this man to hollywood
Actually he had since 2015. 🤑
😑
12:33 🤣 i cracked up! Good job Rudy!
How do you hold being in the East against earlier but then ignore him being in the West as a bonus later? Also, if defense counts for Giannis, why not LeBron in the years that harden/Westbrook/Steph won?
Exactly what I was thinking too!
There’s no actual argument that Lebron should’ve won it last year.
1st because the East is much better than it was when LeBron was there
2nd because Giannis had much better numbers and it wasn't even close
3rd because Giannis was the DPOY and not just a good defender
4th because AD was actually leading the Lakers in more statistical categories
The timing on this video
Everyone just shits on my boy Russ' MVP😞😞😞. Not calling Rusty a hater just sucks that Westbrooks biggest achievement in his career is considered undeserved by many
Great video tho Rusty
As Rusty said, there was a strong narrative to Russ’ win.
Russ also averaged a triple double the next two seasons, but didn’t come close to winning the MVP - people had caught on to the fact that those stats aren’t the be all and end all.
@@michaelcollins966 I kno what u mean cuz narrative really did help him out but those following seasons he had a better team, and even tho he avg a triple double I thought the thing that really pushed it was the fact that he had 42 triple doubles in am 82 game season
@@emmanuelc316 no dude you're right everyone disrespects it these days because everyone hates russ these days. i haven't seen anyone compliment it. its not fair but we cant do anything about it
2017-18 and 2019-20 are the only years that you can seriously argue. But I’d still side with the original winners in each.
Giannis was playing 30 minutes a game, too, and still getting crazy per game numbers. Per 100 possessions, he slaughters LeBron. The Bucks were decimating teams and were, imo, one of the all time great teams (regular season).
As great of a player Lebron is individually his teams have typically sandbagged in the regular season, at least in much of the 2010's. In the late 2000's Lebron led much less talented Cavs teams to 60+ wins in his MVP years and for the Heat his numbers were absolutely insane while leading the Heat to 54/66 wins in his MVP years. All his 2010's Cavs and Laker teams have arguably underperformed in the regular season despite having great rosters for the most part, this effects MVP's big time.
Nah.. those wernt that good outside of the star players
I’ll be real, as you stated for Giannis and his defense, I think u should also factor in defensive numbers for mvps since I don’t know defense numbers or impact but I think he’d take at least 1 factoring in defense
Lebron in 2010-11 (Where Rose won MVP)
VoRP: #1 with 7.8 (1.1 ahead of Rose at #2)
Box +/-: #1 with 8.1 (1.3 ahead of Rose at #3)
WS/48: #1 with 0.244 (0.36 ahead of Rose at #10)
PER: #1 with 27.3 (3.8 ahead of Rose at #9)
WS: #1 with 15.6 (2.5 ahead of Rose at #5)
The only thing Rose had over Lebron in that season was Standings with Bulls being 62-20 with best record in the league but the Heat were 58-24 for 3rd best record in the league.
Also I think a lot of people discredit Rose's bulls team. They were a well rounded team. They were the best defensive team in the league.
The vote in 2010-11 was purely out of spite. The voters just needed a reason to not vote for Lebron and the Bulls gave it to them.
Yes and No. I'm a huge LeBron fan for my whole life, but each of the years he should've won, there actual winners deserved the MVP award more. Also, I think the only year I could say he could have won was 2018 over Harden.
Man stop it Harden averaged 30 points, 9 assists, and 6 rebounds while leading the rockets to 65 wins in the west with CP3 missing a quarter of the season with injuries Harden deserved his MVP and it wasn’t close you LeBron fans are delusional
@@semionjohnson1351 dang bro i didn't push that LeBron SHOULD have won it. I just said that he had a case. I know very well Harden deserved it that year - he got snubbed in 2017. It's just that except 2019 and 2016, LeBron has a case for MVP every year after 2014.
@@semionjohnson1351 he said could
The problem is that most valuable kind of makes it impossible for it to not be him every single year. Nobody is more valuable and I don’t think anybody can really dispute that
It’s the same reason Scottie Pippen should’ve won at least one finals mvp but he didn’t deserve it over Mike in any individual year
I think we need to consider not thinking in terms of MVPs won, but instead either MVP caliber seasons or top-3 MVP finishes. Only one player can win MVP, but many players can have MVP caliber season. James Harden has 5 finishes in the top 3 of MVP voting which wouldn’t be recognized if we only cared he has only won once.
Don't mess this up Rusty, watching now lol.
Do this but for Kevin Durant
Why?
Where is this week's deep dive?
I think he said in a video that he’s in the process of buying a house, so he’s to busy for the next weeks and might not be able to make one.
Rusty, how much do u think post season success plays into the minds of the media voters? Like how the 2018 rockets almost beat the Kd warriors, do u think that gave him more of an argument or do u think they’re honest when the media ppl say they base it solely on Regular season stats?
It's very possible. Giannis is definitely not the MVP this year but he should be in the conversation
Harden wasn’t “way more” efficient than Westbrook.
He wasnt even a little more efficient that had around the same fg% and 3pt%
Yikes , these people don't understand true shooting percentage and effective fg%.
Here is an extreme example. Golbert ha sa higher fg% than Story Curry yet no one would say Steph Curry is less efficent at scoring because Steph Curry takes way more threes.
3 pts is higher than 2 and Harden took way more threes and at a good percentage but that will knock your overall percentage down if you don't understand the term "context".
Hence why no modern NBA analyst who knows what they are talking about like Rusty wouldn't use regular fg%. Harden also got to the line a lot more.
Harden had a way higher efg% and ts%.
Please, when you say this stuff it instantly shows that you are a causal NBA fan.
Sure he should have some more. But so should many other stars. Kareem, jordan, shaq, Kobe,etc all have missed out on mvps they should’ve had.
Imo Russ deserved that 2017 mvp simply bc of averaging a 30 point triple double. I can definitely see the argument for Harden and I wouldn’t have been upset if Harden won it but averaging a triple double is no joke.
But again harden averaged 2 less rebounds. People get rapped up in the triple double hype it’s 2 less rebounds
The problem with most LeBron fans is that they think the award should also include the playoffs. It never has and never will.
Really similar to my thinking here. The only one I'd disagree with is 2018 (which you had as the closest call). LeBron's better rebounding evens out the point differential, leaving a slight difference in ast and efficiency in LBJ's favour. His team sucked, so I think he carried them to 50 wins, which should outweigh the fact that their record wasn't that great.
So maybe he should have five, but no he's not getting robbed.
Unpopular opinion: it’s easier to make a case as curry being the goat then it is for Kobe Bryant
I’m not saying curry is better it’s just his case is stronger and unique while Kobe is a patched mj
unpopular for a big reason
i agree, Kobe is definitely better than curry but it’s just Kobe is similar to mj that he doesn’t have a case that stands out to be the greatest of all time
No it isn't. Curry has 0 finals mvps and has extra rings with a unnecessary demigod 🤷 he has 0 case lol
@@GoatlyBallerIsGoated Kobe was the goat to an entire generation and the goat of his era, curry isn't even the goat of his era lol
Kobe outshines Curry so much on the defensive end
What they really need to do is rename the award to reflect what it really means, so these arguments are finished.
The fact a sentence like "People think the MVP award means you're the most valuable player in the league, but that's just not the case" is true, is just weird.
D Rose deserved that mvp and I will die on that hill.
Really just nobody wanted to give the ring to the guy who was on a superteam and Rose had a better record while not being on a superteam. Like imagine if Rose had bosh and wade. Easy championship. So it’s justified.
Yes Rose really deserved that one tbh
People think harden is going win mvp just by playing with KD and kyrie. He’s not going to win just by playing with 2 superstars
Lebron steps up and stands out even more in the playoffs and tends to cost more in the regular season. The MVP is regular season award, and I think that explains why he has less mvps than pale would expect
Rusty hop on 2k21 myteam, I think you’d love geeking out about it. Watch DBG, theres so much to analyze in player cards and play styles.
No, as being the best player doesn't equate to the most valuable player in every season. He should have won the best player award if the NBA gave one out but most valuable is a debatable subject every season.
Russell Westbrook hit the most game-winners in a season ever, I believe it was 7, so he individually won them those 8 games. he also lead many comebacks that season as well. he also lead the league in 4th quarter points with TEN, post all star averaged ELEVEN AND A HALF and lead the league in clutch points with 6.2. he brought back the thunder from games down 14 (game tying shot), scored 12 points in the final 3:30 and hit game winner, scored last 15 points and hit buzzer beater (infamous nuggets season ending shot), 15-0 run by HIMSELF in the final 2:35 to beat grizzlies, scored 11 of last 13 and hit game winner, scored last 19 of 22, the whole season was the Russel Westbrook show. it was amazing to watch, if you take away all the game winners alone are they a playoff team? and without the rest of his impact they're bottom of the league.
I think a lot of this comes down to nba fans thinking runner up to mvp is just a loser. LeBron has been top 3 in mvp for nearly his entire career. Whether he’s one or not he’s been mvp level every year in the 2010s. Doesn’t matter to casuals though. LeBum didn’t win every mvp so he sucks 🙄
I respectfully disagree that Harden should've won 2017. I believed that Kawhi should've won MVP in 2017. The Spurs were the 2nd best team in the league, they lost their greatest player in Tim Duncan in retirement and Kawhi was expected to shoulder the load even more, which he has. He played his best season as a Spur and still managed to lead them to 60 wins.
Im so tired of people hating on Russ’ MVP season shit annoying as fuck
I understand why they gave it to him, first triple double season since Oscar. But is they knew how common it would become then they might have thought differently
Ok in 2018 LeBron also played all 82 games to Harden playing 72. LeBron technically had more box scores stats this season so the case is even closer
Could you please make a video on if Jordan and/or other legends should have won more mvp's? Thanks!!
Rusty were are the deep dives. I am missing them.
Look at rusty so inspirational
If mvp = best player since the 2000
Shaq 00-02, 3 MVPs
Duncan 03-05, 3 MVPs
Kobe 06-‘10, 5 MVPs
Lebron ‘11-‘18, ‘20, 9 MVPs
Durant ‘19. 1 MVP
Don't forget about KG
Outside of 2017, Moses Malone in 1982 won MVP as the 6th seed
The only MVP Lebron arguably "deserved" was 2011. But the voters wanted to award a up and coming new star who was on the best team record wise in the league. I don't think Derrick Rose was the best regular season player in the NBA in 2011, but being the best player on the best team is often good enough to win MVP so I don't have a huge problem with it.
Westbrook deserved that 2017 MVP. He broke a ridiculous record doing 42, I repeat 42 triple-doubles. Records like that need to be rewarded
He averaged 2 more rebounds than harden. He had almost as much support as harden yet was wayyyy off in the standings. I'm not sure how he deserves that mvp. Even if it's not james harden kawhi also had a pretty good case. I'd say I put those two ahead of westbrook
@@scordatura9259 did you just say that Russ had "almost as much support as Harden"?? Are you kidding me?? Harden had an entire system built around him with spacing & shooting, he had 3&D guys Beverley & Ariza, a legit stretch 4 in Anderson, the SMOTY & 3pt contest winner Eric Gordon and great rolling bigs in Capela, Nene & Harrell. OKC's second leading scorer in the playoffs was Andre Roberson who shot 17% from the FT line!!
@@billpap.9669 Sure harden had multiple 3 and d supporting cast but who else was there. Ariza wasn't even a really good 3 and d player and beverly can't even shoot that season. Besides did you notice anything strange regarding russ's teammates after that season? Did they suddenly just improve and become all star caliber players without russ? Also even if we're just talking abt the players in their state at the time roberson was easily a top 2 perimeter defender and is very valuable despite his lack of jumpshot and adams was one of the best centers at that time
@@scordatura9259 Russell Westbrook hit the most game-winners in a season ever, I believe it was 7, so he individually won them those 8 games. he also lead many comebacks that season as well. he also lead the league in 4th quarter points with TEN, post all star averaged ELEVEN AND A HALF and lead the league in clutch points with 6.2. he brought back the thunder from games down 14 (game tying shot), scored 12 points in the final 3:30 and hit game winner, scored last 15 points and hit buzzer beater (infamous nuggets season ending shot), 15-0 run by HIMSELF in the final 2:35 to beat grizzlies, scored 11 of last 13 and hit game winner, scored last 19 of 22, the whole season was the Russel Westbrook show. it was amazing to watch, if you take away all the game winners alone are they a playoff team? and without the rest of his impact they're bottom of the league.
Idk how Harden isn't salty about not winning that 2017 MVP...Talk about a narrative costing a guy what he rightfully deserved.
I think there's somewhat an argument for 2011
Why ppl never mention Lebron asked for that team and literally Played LEGM in 2018 by trading Dwade, IT, Drose etc midseason at random and was happy they got younger and more athletic with Larry nance jr etc 😂😂😂 Can we tell the Whole Story with context
Probably because it's irrelevant
You can comfortably argue he should have 3 and not 4. 2012 MVP is highly questionable. Narrative won him that award. Miami had 4th best record with Lebron having 2 all stars with him. KD should have gotten it. From 2014 Lebron James onwards there was no MVP he should have won. Players had better seasons than him except Westbrook season which Harden should have won.
2011 was a close race but if not Rose then Dwight for me. Lebron was right there but those 2 had the slightest of edge
We could say LeBron, KD and Harden were the best players between 2016-2019, but the stats and the narratives played agaisnt them in most of the years to win the MVP.
Do one with how many harden should’ve had. I think he could easily have had 3 by now.
No lol
@@Ikedamuscle stfu
My thing is Harden shouldve won when Westbrook won and with that I think LBJ shouldve got 2018, 2020 LBJ wins if theres a full season in my opinion
harden deserving the 2017 mvp over westbrook? Idk bout that one man. I just can't subscribe to that theory. I agree with the rest of the video tho lol
I think the reason this is a debate is because of the actual criteria. If the mvp was actually the MVP and based on the best player any other sport would, Lebron would have more than 4 considering he has been the undisputed best player in the NBA for years
This mans jacket is so fucking cool
Rusty, your precedent argument is wrong. Because there IS precedent for an MVP winning with a lower record. Do some more research. It's not unprecedented. It's just very rare. This is a problem with the MVP as a whole.
1976:
Kareem MISSES THE PLAYOFFS, with a 40-42 record. He wins MVP.
1979:
Moses Malone wins MVP with a 47-35 record. That was the 4th seed in the conference.
1982:
Moses Malone again wins MVP with a 46-36 record. It was 6th best in the conference (keep in mind that only 12 teams made the playoffs at that time). Bird that same season led the Celtics to a 63-19 record in the East.
Shorts answer is no. Long answer is if Lebron and the MVP recipient switched senarios in what world would the other guy had won MVP?
As a LeBron fan the only year you can argue this is 06 even then he shouldn't of won it Dirk should of
Kobe should've won that year.
@@colewrld901 lol no
@@str8duval yes