i really like how this show was written. it's like the writers have such an awareness of how different everyone's perspectives are. like some ppl would sympathize with Brenda. and others with Nate. and that's just life... ppl are just different. i didnt get the sense the writers favored one to the other really
The density of characters at its peak. Brenda stumbled hard in season 2 and rediscovered herself, doing mistakes still but growing out to be the best person she could ever be which surprisingly turned out to being a loving wife and mother while dealing with her freaky family. Nate always sought for a sense of relativity towards his own life, a meaning that always shook up his beliefs about love and took him from the path he was on, pretexting on taking the religious coat multiple times to shy away from what was in front of him, what he had built up with family and friends. Calling him a manchild means simplifying a very complex character i think. When Brenda thought she'd be unable to love or too crazy to live a normal life, it's clear in the end that Nate was the one who wasn't fit for steadiness. And the writing here is so brilliant that his decisions are never shown as something frivolous or selfish. They gave him more questions than fulfilling any of his desires while arguing vehemently in the process what mattered dear to Brenda.
Brenda Chenowith had the best character development in that series. We see how much she had outgrown herself from the woman we first saw in the first episode. Honestly, she deserved way better than what she was going to have to endure, starting at Nate's adultery.
I never felt bad for Brenda until this episode. She ends up feeling bad and does go to Quaker church to meet Nate but he was sleeping with Maggie. The show pulled NO punches and has Nate being a cheater who abandons his pregnant wife right before his death. The episodes that follow this one are very hard to watch without crying. The. The finale is probably the most beautiful finale I've ever seen.
This is almost exactly the way Brenda used to intellectually corner Nate in Season 1. He got very good at defusing her arguments as soon as they got going and then turn the tables on her. Problem is, Brenda isn't that person anymore; she's grown way the heck beyond that and Nate has unfortunately been regressing as a person for all of season 5. His explanations are maddeningly vague, tinged with the good ol' wandering eye, and on the whole fairly shallow for someone his age, and yet he still manages to corner her by making this a referendum on her beliefs and character.
@@jacksonbrown9734 it means to use her logic and reasoning to bring Nate to a position where he has to either accept what she's saying or deny it alright and escape the conversation.
The writers brilliantly implied nate had progressed beyond Brenda's attempts by using body language and not engaging. This is something I can identify as something I do when someone won't listen.
This is what it is. Struggle and balance to want to be present. He shows it and she just can't see past her bad habits and the image she created of him because of who she was and the grudges she holds for her guilt.
I feel like both of them have changed but only superficially. I think sadly Brenda and Nate’s story teach us that sometimes change isn’t worth it and sometimes people should go down their own path instead of trying to conform to what they think is the “correct” way to live.
They really were one of the most realistic depictions of a toxic couple in media. Constantly fighting and making jabs at one another that aren’t totally wrong, but won’t just break up and move on. We’ve ALL known a couple like that.
Thing is though, her hunch was right about Maggie. If Nate felt the way he did, he should've just left. Yeah he would've been the asshole, but at least he would've been honest.
When Nate woke from his coma and seemed to be out of the woods he told Maggie he had so much to tell her and it seemed they would've been together and he told Brenda he was done trying and didn't want to be together anymore. It was so sad because I didn't even like Brenda but I felt bad for her then.
Right about what? It’s not like she didn’t have her own crap. Nate was right too. If she really wanted someone who loved her she wouldn’t have chosen Nate. Brenda’s intelligence got her nowhere. And if Nate loved her any more than he did she would have felt smothered and left.
@@billyb4790Season 2 Brenda maybe, but Brenda in season 5 didn’t care about being scared or smothered. She loved Maya and wanted to be a good mother to her and she still loved Nate, she was just struggling to love him differently from how she used to back in the first two seasons. She was working on trying to compromise for him for the sake of their relationship. Only he wasn’t willing to do that for her.
nate and brenda definitely loved each other but it's like, neither one wanted to ever compromise for the other, ever. it's no wonder brenda did not feel listened to and nate wanted to pull away from her, neither one wanted to give any control over to the other person. very relatable to real life relationships.
Nate seemed to regress as time went on . He was becoming his father . He was at his happiest whe he was away from the family . I think Claire would be the one to realize how codependent and toxic doing everything by duty alone. She was able to balance what they never could
This was at least 3rd time Nate asked Brenda about what she believed. He wanted her to believe in something. Perhaps because he starred death in the face every day at work, but mostly the AVM. He even told Maggie he ignored those things about Brenda when he married her. Unfortunately, Nate was still playing games, and Brenda was an atheist as she always was and had grown up. He went back to Brenda the last time because she was familiar.
What i like about this show is it's honest writing. That eventhough Nate made once the mistake not to do want he wanted but to choose what was best for the others, he didn't learn from the mistake. He kept doing what others expected him to do. It happens in life that we keep doing the same mistakes until we realise it's time to change and are willing to do that but it's to late (In my opinion).
One of the most soul crushing elements of this scene is that Bren ends up swallowing her pride and goes to the Quaker church anyway to try to make Nate happy… only for Nate to have an affair with Maggie. As deeply flawed and fucked up Brenda was throughout the show, it was very clear towards the end that she was trying her best to do right by Nate, Maya, and the Fishers. At that point, though, Nate had been so badly burnt and traumatized from what happened to Lisa, it seemed unsalvageable.
She ends up going to the church expecting to find Nate there but him and Maggie don’t show up and she’s alone. No matter how much you want to be there for someone, if they are born to run, you’ll never catch them.
I hated Maggie so much, lol. But Nate was the one behaving like a complete douchebag. Immature, running away from responsibility (but excusing himself that he needed to find the meaning of life, oh please!).
@@candice44 I don't think it shows class when you get it on with a married man with a pregnant woman for starters. And I did not like the characters personality overall. I could not believe Nate was interested in her. (I am talking about the characters in the show and how they were portrayed, not the actors). And the whole "spiritual/religion thing" was just UGH for me.
@@cmo6055Thank you! That's exactly how I felt. Nate has to be the most frustrating character I've ever seen, always so desperate to believe in the mythology of himself being deeper than he really is, I guess it's so obnoxious to me because it's incredibly realistic, we all know tons of people like that, who talk about deep and meaningful subjects like they're profound philosophers, but act like immature children.
I like how she automatically took care of the kid she assumed a role right away with love how ever she did. It was right and she was right she has a lot of love in her she just doesn't know it her love needs to match her analytical skills for sure !
Nate: Hey, sweetie can you get your shoes for me? And I'll get you ready for daycare. (Brenda gets her stepdaughter ready for daycare.) Nate really was a man-child.
I agree Nate wasn't perfect and was a flawed man but like George said he was an idealist and strived to be better which is what makes his death so heartbreaking.
Brenda and Nate just weren't good for each other. They had hard time compromising, and the communication sucked. This scene was the beginning of the end, and man Ecotone was such a gut punch.
I don't want to spoil the whole episode this is from, but I really liked the end where Nate says he is here and is not going anywhere. Sadly you never know from one day to the next.
I don’t think either of them are in the wrong here. Nate feels that something is missing in his life. Compared to their exciting relationship in the earlier seasons, Nate isn’t completely ready to be tied down by his new family and will try anything that might fill the gap, including religion, to seem less distant from himself and his family. However, the presence of Maggie as an influence to practice Quakerism creates, rightfully so, an extreme jealousy in Brenda, who interprets Nate’s distancing as not wanting to face his familial responsibilities which, in a way, is true. They are both good people and good parents, but are not good for each other.
When Nate says "I'm here and I'm not going anywhere," I interpret it as him saying what he feels he needs to say to come out looking like the better person. It's not honest (we know that since he literally breaks up with Brenda later), but Nate doesn't really have a choice. There's no good way out of his position-either he bites the bullet and keeps up the charade of wanting to be where he is so that he doesn't ruin anyone else's life, or he leaves and chooses the life he wants at the expense of others' well-being. This is why you don't ever want to marry or have kids before you're well through your life. Settling down in your twenties and thirties is perhaps the biggest mistake a person can make, because once you sign up for that, there's NO good way out. At that point, you either have to stick it out and suffer or throw all responsibility to the wind and ruin the lives of the people you promised to be there for. It's a truly unforgiving position to be in, so I sympathize with Nate perhaps a bit more than other people do. At the same time, Brenda definitely ended up being unquestionably the better person between the two of them.
Yes, but if you don't settle in your thirties... I mean, a woman can't get pregnant when she's too old. I'm 35 and I don't feel prepared for that, but I don't have much more time neither XD. Probably, I will never be a mother, I guess...
@@alguien1234 Very true. I guess women who want to have children would then have to settle down in their thirties at the latest. I guess nature is just sexist in that way.
Their arguments irritate me . Because its not only no compromise..both of them are so condescending to each other it would be hard to have a conversation with either one.
Nate was always a really toxic person and he wanted a toxic woman in his life too. He cheated on Brenda when she was just starting to become a "normal" person and left her because he realized that Brenda would no longer be the toxic person he wanted her to be.
I could relate to nate and Brenda very much but This scene was especially painful to watch. The part where Nate says “I’m here and not going anywhere” is so incredibly spiteful. It’s like they are trying to prove to themselves how miserable they can be. Story of my life in relationships.
I'm on Nate's side. Brenda is a terrible advertisement for the superior attitude of an "enlightened" atheist who looks down on anyone who believes in something beyond their tortured imprisonment. She is always looking for conflict.
i really like how this show was written. it's like the writers have such an awareness of how different everyone's perspectives are. like some ppl would sympathize with Brenda. and others with Nate. and that's just life... ppl are just different. i didnt get the sense the writers favored one to the other really
"that sappy little ferret" LOL!
and a deeply kind person
😂🤣😂
The density of characters at its peak. Brenda stumbled hard in season 2 and rediscovered herself, doing mistakes still but growing out to be the best person she could ever be which surprisingly turned out to being a loving wife and mother while dealing with her freaky family. Nate always sought for a sense of relativity towards his own life, a meaning that always shook up his beliefs about love and took him from the path he was on, pretexting on taking the religious coat multiple times to shy away from what was in front of him, what he had built up with family and friends. Calling him a manchild means simplifying a very complex character i think. When Brenda thought she'd be unable to love or too crazy to live a normal life, it's clear in the end that Nate was the one who wasn't fit for steadiness. And the writing here is so brilliant that his decisions are never shown as something frivolous or selfish. They gave him more questions than fulfilling any of his desires while arguing vehemently in the process what mattered dear to Brenda.
Brenda Chenowith had the best character development in that series. We see how much she had outgrown herself from the woman we first saw in the first episode. Honestly, she deserved way better than what she was going to have to endure, starting at Nate's adultery.
lol she was cheating as well, they're both terrible
Yeah the biggest mistake she made was nate
@@stuv1996she outgrew and was past that, Nate wasn’t
I never felt bad for Brenda until this episode. She ends up feeling bad and does go to Quaker church to meet Nate but he was sleeping with Maggie. The show pulled NO punches and has Nate being a cheater who abandons his pregnant wife right before his death.
The episodes that follow this one are very hard to watch without crying. The. The finale is probably the most beautiful finale I've ever seen.
Man the finale had me bawling my eyes out.
@@billyb4790 I cry every single time I watch it.
"I'm here and I'm not going anywhere. ...I gotta go to work." priceless
2 episodes later: we need to break up for good
🤣🤣🤣
Someone has to pay the bills since Brenda with her genius level IQ could never hold a job let alone land a good paying one
Hes so fake. He broke up with her 2 episodes later on his deathbed. Lmao
@@ClassicKrusty tbf wasn't she pregnant at that time?
"Little ferret, Maggie". Brenda got that right.
"a deeply kind person" btw...
How is that right?
@@candice44 She was a little mealy-mouthed ferret, sniffing around a man that she knew had a pregnant wife.
Brenda is more like the little ferret here. She’s afraid and bitchy and gross. Maggie every day of the week.
This is almost exactly the way Brenda used to intellectually corner Nate in Season 1. He got very good at defusing her arguments as soon as they got going and then turn the tables on her. Problem is, Brenda isn't that person anymore; she's grown way the heck beyond that and Nate has unfortunately been regressing as a person for all of season 5. His explanations are maddeningly vague, tinged with the good ol' wandering eye, and on the whole fairly shallow for someone his age, and yet he still manages to corner her by making this a referendum on her beliefs and character.
what do you mean "intellectually corner" ?
@@jacksonbrown9734 it means to use her logic and reasoning to bring Nate to a position where he has to either accept what she's saying or deny it alright and escape the conversation.
The writers brilliantly implied nate had progressed beyond Brenda's attempts by using body language and not engaging. This is something I can identify as something I do when someone won't listen.
This is what it is. Struggle and balance to want to be present. He shows it and she just can't see past her bad habits and the image she created of him because of who she was and the grudges she holds for her guilt.
I feel like both of them have changed but only superficially. I think sadly Brenda and Nate’s story teach us that sometimes change isn’t worth it and sometimes people should go down their own path instead of trying to conform to what they think is the “correct” way to live.
They really were one of the most realistic depictions of a toxic couple in media. Constantly fighting and making jabs at one another that aren’t totally wrong, but won’t just break up and move on. We’ve ALL known a couple like that.
Brenda was too much for him.
Thing is though, her hunch was right about Maggie. If Nate felt the way he did, he should've just left. Yeah he would've been the asshole, but at least he would've been honest.
He probably would have left if he did not die at the age of 40
@@seanmartin6773 He sais that when Brenda comes to see him at the hospital. That he doesn't want this anymore. That they should break up.
When Nate woke from his coma and seemed to be out of the woods he told Maggie he had so much to tell her and it seemed they would've been together and he told Brenda he was done trying and didn't want to be together anymore. It was so sad because I didn't even like Brenda but I felt bad for her then.
@@flightofthebumblebee9529getting dumped by your husband in a coma lol
Brenda was right the whole time
She was ferret like wasn’t she?
@@dhurley8522 I laughed when Brenda called Maggie a ferret because Brenda is the one I've always felt resembled a ferret
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 They were both ferret-like 😂 I guess Nate had a type ..😁
Right about what? It’s not like she didn’t have her own crap. Nate was right too. If she really wanted someone who loved her she wouldn’t have chosen Nate.
Brenda’s intelligence got her nowhere. And if Nate loved her any more than he did she would have felt smothered and left.
@@billyb4790Season 2 Brenda maybe, but Brenda in season 5 didn’t care about being scared or smothered. She loved Maya and wanted to be a good mother to her and she still loved Nate, she was just struggling to love him differently from how she used to back in the first two seasons.
She was working on trying to compromise for him for the sake of their relationship. Only he wasn’t willing to do that for her.
nate and brenda definitely loved each other but it's like, neither one wanted to ever compromise for the other, ever. it's no wonder brenda did not feel listened to and nate wanted to pull away from her, neither one wanted to give any control over to the other person. very relatable to real life relationships.
Nate seemed to regress as time went on . He was becoming his father . He was at his happiest whe he was away from the family . I think Claire would be the one to realize how codependent and toxic doing everything by duty alone. She was able to balance what they never could
Brenda was willing to compromise and go to that Quaker church with Nate, only he wasn’t there he was too busy being fucked into a coma by Maggie.
@@MM-hf6om That's a really beautiful thing to say. Can't wait for the fall rewatch :)
This was at least 3rd time Nate asked Brenda about what she believed. He wanted her to believe in something. Perhaps because he starred death in the face every day at work, but mostly the AVM. He even told Maggie he ignored those things about Brenda when he married her. Unfortunately, Nate was still playing games, and Brenda was an atheist as she always was and had grown up. He went back to Brenda the last time because she was familiar.
Couldn't stand Maggie
What i like about this show is it's honest writing. That eventhough Nate made once the mistake not to do want he wanted but to choose what was best for the others, he didn't learn from the mistake. He kept doing what others expected him to do. It happens in life that we keep doing the same mistakes until we realise it's time to change and are willing to do that but it's to late (In my opinion).
One of the most soul crushing elements of this scene is that Bren ends up swallowing her pride and goes to the Quaker church anyway to try to make Nate happy… only for Nate to have an affair with Maggie.
As deeply flawed and fucked up Brenda was throughout the show, it was very clear towards the end that she was trying her best to do right by Nate, Maya, and the Fishers.
At that point, though, Nate had been so badly burnt and traumatized from what happened to Lisa, it seemed unsalvageable.
She ends up going to the church expecting to find Nate there but him and Maggie don’t show up and she’s alone. No matter how much you want to be there for someone, if they are born to run, you’ll never catch them.
Nate: I'm not going anywhere
Grim Reaper: See ya soon my guy!!
I hated Maggie so much, lol. But Nate was the one behaving like a complete douchebag. Immature, running away from responsibility (but excusing himself that he needed to find the meaning of life, oh please!).
Why did you hate Maggie?
@@candice44 I don't think it shows class when you get it on with a married man with a pregnant woman for starters. And I did not like the characters personality overall. I could not believe Nate was interested in her. (I am talking about the characters in the show and how they were portrayed, not the actors). And the whole "spiritual/religion thing" was just UGH for me.
@@cmo6055Thank you! That's exactly how I felt. Nate has to be the most frustrating character I've ever seen, always so desperate to believe in the mythology of himself being deeper than he really is, I guess it's so obnoxious to me because it's incredibly realistic, we all know tons of people like that, who talk about deep and meaningful subjects like they're profound philosophers, but act like immature children.
I like how she automatically took care of the kid she assumed a role right away with love how ever she did. It was right and she was right she has a lot of love in her she just doesn't know it her love needs to match her analytical skills for sure !
Nate: Hey, sweetie can you get your shoes for me? And I'll get you ready for daycare.
(Brenda gets her stepdaughter ready for daycare.)
Nate really was a man-child.
send the child away so you can fight with your wife. classic
I agree Nate wasn't perfect and was a flawed man but like George said he was an idealist and strived to be better which is what makes his death so heartbreaking.
Wow to notice something like tht
@@flightofthebumblebee9529 You can preach being an idealist all you wan't, but in the end it is your actions that count
Brenda and Nate just weren't good for each other. They had hard time compromising, and the communication sucked. This scene was the beginning of the end, and man Ecotone was such a gut punch.
I don't want to spoil the whole episode this is from, but I really liked the end where Nate says he is here and is not going anywhere. Sadly you never know from one day to the next.
Just bought the box set for $40 on ebay. 😍
first time watching?
I don’t think either of them are in the wrong here. Nate feels that something is missing in his life. Compared to their exciting relationship in the earlier seasons, Nate isn’t completely ready to be tied down by his new family and will try anything that might fill the gap, including religion, to seem less distant from himself and his family. However, the presence of Maggie as an influence to practice Quakerism creates, rightfully so, an extreme jealousy in Brenda, who interprets Nate’s distancing as not wanting to face his familial responsibilities which, in a way, is true. They are both good people and good parents, but are not good for each other.
When Nate says "I'm here and I'm not going anywhere," I interpret it as him saying what he feels he needs to say to come out looking like the better person. It's not honest (we know that since he literally breaks up with Brenda later), but Nate doesn't really have a choice. There's no good way out of his position-either he bites the bullet and keeps up the charade of wanting to be where he is so that he doesn't ruin anyone else's life, or he leaves and chooses the life he wants at the expense of others' well-being. This is why you don't ever want to marry or have kids before you're well through your life. Settling down in your twenties and thirties is perhaps the biggest mistake a person can make, because once you sign up for that, there's NO good way out. At that point, you either have to stick it out and suffer or throw all responsibility to the wind and ruin the lives of the people you promised to be there for. It's a truly unforgiving position to be in, so I sympathize with Nate perhaps a bit more than other people do. At the same time, Brenda definitely ended up being unquestionably the better person between the two of them.
Yes, but if you don't settle in your thirties... I mean, a woman can't get pregnant when she's too old. I'm 35 and I don't feel prepared for that, but I don't have much more time neither XD. Probably, I will never be a mother, I guess...
@@alguien1234 Very true. I guess women who want to have children would then have to settle down in their thirties at the latest. I guess nature is just sexist in that way.
I think that was some form of spiritual, meditative thinking on his part too.
There was never any give on either side. That was one of the main problems.
I remember saying fuck yeah to myself during a lot of scenes not because I was on one characters side but because things got just so real
Brenda was miserable but her hunches were right on target. She should have been a cat lady instead.
😆😆😆😆
Good cautionary tale: go for the good guys, those with whom you feel safe and content. And makes you smile.
He didn’t deserve Brenda. She was amazing
Brenda sucked
It’s the other way around
She had a ton of problems that's why he cheated.
As much as Brenda was F up, she did raise his daughter from another woman. In that sense, she was a saint compared to him.
Wiggles Henry the octopus
Their arguments irritate me . Because its not only no compromise..both of them are so condescending to each other it would be hard to have a conversation with either one.
Sounds like first and second season, more of the same thing, Nate & Brenda complaining. Poor them!!!
they are both so toxic.
0:51
Love the stupid kid show chiming in on the background during their argument
Ain't it funnnnnyyyyy, uhhhhhhh ahhhh uhhhhhh
I hated Maggie
He did leave, though
(fuck, now I'm sad)
Nate was always a really toxic person and he wanted a toxic woman in his life too. He cheated on Brenda when she was just starting to become a "normal" person and left her because he realized that Brenda would no longer be the toxic person he wanted her to be.
She’s did Eliza in My Fair Lady Broadway a number of years ago.
I could relate to nate and Brenda very much but This scene was especially painful to watch. The part where Nate says “I’m here and not going anywhere” is so incredibly spiteful. It’s like they are trying to prove to themselves how miserable they can be. Story of my life in relationships.
I'm on Nate's side. Brenda is a terrible advertisement for the superior attitude of an "enlightened" atheist who looks down on anyone who believes in something beyond their tortured imprisonment. She is always looking for conflict.
true love - i remember it well(hell)
Brenda drew you in, and also made you run for the exit.
Kind of like most women.
But fcuk I love them!
Been there, done that.
This is my nightmare-relationship
Brenda reminds me of my ex....... God, this is brutal to watch
Brutal because it is the naked truth about human relationships.
@Death To Diaper Ghouls If you think Six Feet Under is depressing then you must think life is depressing
@@stellar476 Life *is* depressing.
Her fight gland needs tuning
Lots of single women commenting here hahahah
Brenda's the reason why I could never be friends with an Atheist.
...and THAT is why Brenda is chronically miserable.
because she is smart and honest?
She's goddamn pregnant at this very moment. Nate's 'I'm here for you' is total bullshit.
lol ecactly. she grew so much as a person and he refused to still man up and treat her like his actual wife and mother of his child
They should have had this argument before they got married.