SEE ALL - To view a list of all our LearnElectrics videos, click on the link below. There are many videos on many electrical topics including Installation, Part P, 18th Edition, Testing, Certification, Lighting, Sockets, Ring Circuits and much more. ua-cam.com/channels/YaJQnpO4XAp0yCgqzMkmfA.html
Thank you so much for your videos, I’ve always got confused when it comes to the ring circuit testing but you made it so much clear and easy to understand, thanks again Sir
Glad it was helpful, thanks for watching. Take a look at the video on this link, some more information for you. ua-cam.com/video/niuVdopqlcs/v-deo.html If you look on LearnElectrics.com and put ring circuit into the search box you will get a list of relevant videos and direct links to the videos. Cheers. dave
'Work within your own abilities and skills' inspired me to work through an RCD trip problem that came about when we had a modern consumer unit fitted in our old house. Think I've finally got to the bottom of the problem and now have a detailed survey of all sockets on the two rings in the property. Thanks for posting.
Questions are fine. That's how we learn. Stick with it and learn as much as you can, its a good trade and the more you learn and practice, the better you get. Thanks for watching. Dave.
Great video, as mentioned in some other comments, the R1+RN crossover should also be performed and verified, despite there being nowhere to record it in the schedule of test results, it is really part of the polarity checks. I also recommend operating the switch during testing as this verifies functionality (is the switch working correctly?) and leaving the switch in the on position once testing has been performed in readiness for insulation resistance testing. If you had a spur on the circuit this may be indicated by a slightly higher reading than R1+RN. Lastly, if it is a twin socket, then testing should be performed on both sides of the outlet. Great video keep them coming👍
@@stevewilliams8230 it’s not a bs7671 regulation, it’s in guidance note 3 (on page 46) it’s step 2 on testing continuity of ring final circuit conductors, testing both outlets is just best practice as you may have a fault within a twin outlet 👍
This series of videos are the best for learners ! All the others have one eye on the pro watching in it seems or just don't explain the reasons or basis behind a lot of the electrical rules
Greetings I hope you keeping well I must high appreciate your hard work and guiding others to learn the trade easily and efficiently. I request you to please carry on your highest reward able work. Many Thanks
@@learnelectrics4402 Thanks for reply Dave honestly speaking once I found your electro technology which is covering 17th and 18th edition BS7671 very useful and right guidance towards the electrical installation and inspection testing. Please advise me if possible I have done my C&G 2330 level 2-3 in 2011 thereafter few other courses was working in electrical industry. Unfortunately few years ago done very little work due partner health. Please guide me as now I like to go back to my electrical work but now 18th edition needs to be updated also part P for I can register self certified my work as a electrician. Please advise me best way I can complete this two courses which one should I do first. Many Thanks
Little r denotes it’s an End to end test. I asked several people why and what the difference between Little and large R was. Thanks for explaining - nobody else could.
Hi, A few (maybe silly) questions please as I've never done testing before, just learning now. - Do I need to disconnect everything from the sockets before testing? - Do I need to switch ON or OFF the sockets each? - What if there is fused spur on the ring? My boiler is on the ring of the living room sockets. What should I do with it? Many thanks for your answer in advance!
Unplug everything, yes. You will operate the switch on and off to make sure the switch works, but the switch will need to be ON to get valid test results for R1 + R2, have another look at the video. If any part of the boiler circuit is still in circuit it may affect results I would remove it after doing safe isolation and temporarily replace it with an ordinary socket or a connector block. It only takes 3 or 4 minutes to replace. Thanks for watching. Dave.
@@learnelectrics4402 Hi Dave, Many thanks for your reply! Honestly I kept looking for answer to this question and nothing (forums, books, IET etc)....Maybe it is trivial! :D
Hi dave an adult still learning here , firstly thanks for making these videos they are really appreciated 👍. My daughter bought her 1st home and because its 3mpty not living in i decided to do some testing/practices before it gets rewired with a sparks. I did all end to end then figure of 8 and all 👍. However when I did zs test nearly every outlet on the rfc failed , it is old bs 3036 30amp, but once I changed to a 20amp mcb everything passed obviously I know the maximum results allowed had changed but wondered why they failed with the old bs3036 fuse ?? I checked all terminals etc, the ze result was 0.51 for what I assume is a tns supply its a supply run on the rear of a row of cottages with a separate solid copper core earth . Any advice would be appreciated and sorry for the long post regards gary
Gary, thanks for watching. If its a BS3036 board then it goes back many many years. A long time ago, permitted maximum Zs was higher than it is today. It may have been installed and tested to that much earlier version of the Regs. Why the difference, perhaps the retightening of screws, difficult to say. Dave.
Thanks for watching Alan. We already have a video on ring circuit testing on the link below ... ua-cam.com/video/-PAruseUf04/v-deo.html ... and we will also be doing a video on ring cct faults very soon. This video will point you towards the old website a dot co dot uk site, now closed We have a dot com site now with all the videos and files listed on there. Good luck, thanks for asking.
Hello David, I've just completed an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR), and during the r1 end-to-end test, I'm getting a 50,000-ohm reading. When measuring the Ze at that circuit's socket using the Megger, it's displaying as a "CON." I've double-checked that the leads are correctly plugged in on the Megger. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Sounds like an open circuit in the wiring. 50 kohms is the first clue and connection error on your meter is another. take a look at the video on the attached link, all about ring circuit fault finding. Good luck and thanks for watching. Dave. ua-cam.com/video/iVAEDEvNObE/v-deo.html
Great video as usual. One question: are you not not supposed to do a 500 volt insulation test after doing the continuity test before doing the crossover test? Thanks
Hi Dave, just a point for clarity, should we multiply the result of (R1 + R2)/4 by 1.2 to take into account the rise in cable tempreture during use of the circuit. Appreciate this is carried out during the ELI final test.
No, leave it unaltered. Take another look at the video. (r1+r2)/4 = R1+R2 The 1.2 comes in on Zs when we multiply it by 1 ÷ 1.2 = 0.8. i.e. Zs x 0.8 = Zs(m)
Hi. Why am I not getting the same answers? For Stage 3 - 2.03 ÷ 4 = 0.5075 when in-fact 2.08 ÷ 4 = 0.52. Adding a variable allowance of 0.05 seems to work, but I thought that 0.05 was only for Stage 1 - r1, rn. The rest of the calculation pads out exactly up to this point. Please help! 🙏 Many thanks 👍
Just the way its been rounded up by the calculator. The difference between your two figures above is only a hundredth of an ohm and close enough. Line and neutral should be the same value in theory but on-site you may well get one at 0.51 and the other at 0.52. We would consider them to be the same. You're doing good, and this shows you're on the ball. Keep learning Karl, it's a great trade. Dave.
Thanks for getting back so quickly Dave. Really appreciate it. Keep up the great work. Learn Electrics videos are an invaluable part of my learning curve & have helped me out no end. All the best 👍 👌
Circuit Protective Conductor - the earth. We always round up or down and seldom go to 4 decimal places. So .52 is close enough, it is only a few thousandths of an ohm difference, we are never that accurate with electrics, the next time we measure it it will be slightly different again so anything around 0.50 to 0.52 would be acceptable. How hard you press your crocodile clips on the copper, the temperature of the room, your meter batteries will all make miniscule differences.
Jason. No. You do not test R1+R2 at the CU for a ring circuit. The CU is normally where you make the crossover links and once done we leave them alone. Tests are done at each of the sockets. Hope this helps. Dave.
That's good Jason. 40 years ago I was the same position and thought I would never learn it. Stick with it, watch the videos and learn something every few days. Its a good trade.
We would test R1 and Rn to ensure continuity but we do not record it on the certificates. Good question, hope this helps and thanks for the positive comments - appreciated. Dave
SEE ALL - To view a list of all our LearnElectrics videos, click on the link below.
There are many videos on many electrical topics including Installation, Part P, 18th Edition, Testing, Certification, Lighting, Sockets, Ring Circuits and much more.
ua-cam.com/channels/YaJQnpO4XAp0yCgqzMkmfA.html
Have to say that your videos make easy work of understanding the theory. Cheers
Glad to hear that, appreciated.
Absolutely fantastic clear videos LOVE THEM. i have my approved electrician test in Scotland next week these videos are great to refresh and clarify.
Great comments Stuart. Thank you and good luck with the assessments. I'm sure you will be ok. Dave.
Did you pass?
Thank you so much for your videos, I’ve always got confused when it comes to the ring circuit testing but you made it so much clear and easy to understand, thanks again Sir
Glad it was helpful, thanks for watching.
Take a look at the video on this link, some more information for you.
ua-cam.com/video/niuVdopqlcs/v-deo.html
If you look on LearnElectrics.com and put ring circuit into the search box you will get a list of relevant videos and direct links to the videos. Cheers. dave
@@learnelectrics4402 Thanks for sharing, it's really helpful 😀
Your videos are brilliant you make it very easy to understand wish I had been taught so easily years ago.
Great feedback Mike, thank you. Lots more to come. Dave.
Your videos are without doubt the easiest to understand. Brilliant.
That's really good of you to say that Sam, really appreciated. Dave.
'Work within your own abilities and skills' inspired me to work through an RCD trip problem that came about when we had a modern consumer unit fitted in our old house. Think I've finally got to the bottom of the problem and now have a detailed survey of all sockets on the two rings in the property. Thanks for posting.
If we have helped in a small way that is great. Thank you. Dave.
couldnt be described any clearer. 👏👏👏 well done. great job
Thank you Ahmed, thanks for the positive feedback. Dave.
Hello Dave,, i decided to start watching your videos from the oldest in order to understand better and to ask less questions 😀
Questions are fine. That's how we learn. Stick with it and learn as much as you can, its a good trade and the more you learn and practice, the better you get. Thanks for watching. Dave.
I like the way you explain things.. You just make them easy.. Keep it up & many thanks 🙏
Thanks for the positive comments. Lots more to come. Dave.
Best teacher ever . All the best and keep it up 👍
Fantastic feedback, thanks. Lots more to come Kajetan, keep watching. Dave.
Thank you again Dave for another very informative and clearly explained video.
Very welcome, thanks for the support. Dave.
Great video, as mentioned in some other comments, the R1+RN crossover should also be performed and verified, despite there being nowhere to record it in the schedule of test results, it is really part of the polarity checks.
I also recommend operating the switch during testing as this verifies functionality (is the switch working correctly?) and leaving the switch in the on position once testing has been performed in readiness for insulation resistance testing. If you had a spur on the circuit this may be indicated by a slightly higher reading than R1+RN. Lastly, if it is a twin socket, then testing should be performed on both sides of the outlet.
Great video keep them coming👍
Thanks for your positive comments, very much appreciated. Lots more to follow. Dave.
Could you provide the reg number which states you need to check both outlets of double outlet socket???
@@stevewilliams8230 it’s not a bs7671 regulation, it’s in guidance note 3 (on page 46) it’s step 2 on testing continuity of ring final circuit conductors, testing both outlets is just best practice as you may have a fault within a twin outlet 👍
@@stevewilliams8230 - its called the common sense reg and each outlet can give different readings if they haven't been used as much.
You’re the best! I love your videos
Great feedback. thank you. Lots more to come.
Wow! This is very informative, thanks for sharing it with us Dave. It worth it and the best tutorial on the topic for me.
Thanks for the support Daniel.
This series of videos are the best for learners ! All the others have one eye on the pro watching in it seems or just don't explain the reasons or basis behind a lot of the electrical rules
Thank you very much. Appreciated.
Really clear to understand, thank you!
Glad it helped, thank you.
Great video. Very easy to follow style. It's not easy to make thing as clear as you do. We'll done.
Thank you, appreciated.
Wow! This is very informative, thanks for sharing it with us Dave. It worth it and the best tutorial on the topic for me...dl
Glad you enjoyed it, keep watching, lots more to come.
@@learnelectrics4402 I will
Great video explained it clear well best video I have seen
Thank you Jay, appreciated feedback. Dave.
Thanks. Very good and clear explanation.
Thank you, great feedback.
Greetings
I hope you keeping well I must high appreciate your hard work and guiding others to learn the trade easily and efficiently.
I request you to please carry on your highest reward able work.
Many Thanks
Thank you very much Saleem. Great feedback and yes, more videos to follow. Dave.
@@learnelectrics4402 Thanks for reply Dave honestly speaking once I found your electro technology which is covering 17th and 18th edition BS7671 very useful and right guidance towards the electrical installation and inspection testing.
Please advise me if possible I have done my C&G 2330 level 2-3 in 2011 thereafter few other courses was working in electrical industry.
Unfortunately few years ago done very little work due partner health.
Please guide me as now I like to go back to my electrical work but now 18th edition needs to be updated also part P for I can register self certified my work as a electrician.
Please advise me best way I can complete this two courses which one should I do first.
Many Thanks
Little r denotes it’s an End to end test. I asked several people why and what the difference between Little and large R was. Thanks for explaining - nobody else could.
Thanks for the excellent feedback. So glad we could help. Dave
Great Video, good and clear.
Glad it was helpful Danny. Thanks. Dave.
Excellent work done there thank you
Thanks Andrew, much appreciated. Dave.
Brilliant video thanks👍
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it, Dave.
Excellent sir
Thank you very much for your positive feedback. Dave
Hi,
A few (maybe silly) questions please as I've never done testing before, just learning now.
- Do I need to disconnect everything from the sockets before testing?
- Do I need to switch ON or OFF the sockets each?
- What if there is fused spur on the ring? My boiler is on the ring of the living room sockets. What should I do with it?
Many thanks for your answer in advance!
Unplug everything, yes.
You will operate the switch on and off to make sure the switch works, but the switch will need to be ON to get valid test results for R1 + R2, have another look at the video.
If any part of the boiler circuit is still in circuit it may affect results I would remove it after doing safe isolation and temporarily replace it with an ordinary socket or a connector block. It only takes 3 or 4 minutes to replace.
Thanks for watching.
Dave.
@@learnelectrics4402 Hi Dave,
Many thanks for your reply! Honestly I kept looking for answer to this question and nothing (forums, books, IET etc)....Maybe it is trivial! :D
Hi dave an adult still learning here , firstly thanks for making these videos they are really appreciated 👍.
My daughter bought her 1st home and because its 3mpty not living in i decided to do some testing/practices before it gets rewired with a sparks.
I did all end to end then figure of 8 and all 👍.
However when I did zs test nearly every outlet on the rfc failed , it is old bs 3036 30amp, but once I changed to a 20amp mcb everything passed obviously I know the maximum results allowed had changed but wondered why they failed with the old bs3036 fuse ??
I checked all terminals etc,
the ze result was 0.51 for what I assume is a tns supply its a supply run on the rear of a row of cottages with a separate solid copper core earth .
Any advice would be appreciated and sorry for the long post regards gary
Gary, thanks for watching. If its a BS3036 board then it goes back many many years.
A long time ago, permitted maximum Zs was higher than it is today. It may have been installed and tested to that much earlier version of the Regs. Why the difference, perhaps the retightening of screws, difficult to say. Dave.
Thank you
You're very welcome David, thanks for watching. Lots more on the channel and lots more to come. Dave.
Great vids but could you show method on diagnosing faults on a ring main and splitting the loop please
Thanks for watching Alan.
We already have a video on ring circuit testing on the link below ...
ua-cam.com/video/-PAruseUf04/v-deo.html
... and we will also be doing a video on ring cct faults very soon.
This video will point you towards the old website a dot co dot uk site, now closed
We have a dot com site now with all the videos and files listed on there.
Good luck, thanks for asking.
Hello David, I've just completed an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR), and during the r1 end-to-end test, I'm getting a 50,000-ohm reading. When measuring the Ze at that circuit's socket using the Megger, it's displaying as a "CON." I've double-checked that the leads are correctly plugged in on the Megger. Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Sounds like an open circuit in the wiring. 50 kohms is the first clue and connection error on your meter is another. take a look at the video on the attached link, all about ring circuit fault finding. Good luck and thanks for watching. Dave.
ua-cam.com/video/iVAEDEvNObE/v-deo.html
We all love you Dave!! You always go out of your way to answer questions. Best of the Best~@@learnelectrics4402
Great video as usual. One question: are you not not supposed to do a 500 volt insulation test after doing the continuity test before doing the crossover test? Thanks
Robert, the crossover test is part of the same continuity test. Done before the IR tests.
Thanks for the positive comments, appreciated. Dave.
this is probably a stupid question but if in a radial current is travelling back on the live whats the neutral doing ?
Line is at 230 volts, neutral is the other side of the load at 0V
this is probably a stupid question but if its travelling back on the live whats the neutral doing ?
Its not travelling back, all the line cable is at 230V
The neutral is on the other side of the load.
Dave.
Hi Dave, just a point for clarity, should we multiply the result of (R1 + R2)/4 by 1.2 to take into account the rise in cable tempreture during use of the circuit. Appreciate this is carried out during the ELI final test.
No, leave it unaltered. Take another look at the video. (r1+r2)/4 = R1+R2
The 1.2 comes in on Zs when we multiply it by 1 ÷ 1.2 = 0.8. i.e. Zs x 0.8 = Zs(m)
Thanks Dave you are a great teacher.
You're welcome my friend.
Hi. Why am I not getting the same answers? For Stage 3 - 2.03 ÷ 4 = 0.5075 when in-fact 2.08 ÷ 4 = 0.52. Adding a variable allowance of 0.05 seems to work, but I thought that 0.05 was only for Stage 1 - r1, rn. The rest of the calculation pads out exactly up to this point. Please help! 🙏 Many thanks 👍
Just the way its been rounded up by the calculator. The difference between your two figures above is only a hundredth of an ohm and close enough. Line and neutral should be the same value in theory but on-site you may well get one at 0.51 and the other at 0.52. We would consider them to be the same. You're doing good, and this shows you're on the ball. Keep learning Karl, it's a great trade. Dave.
Thanks for getting back so quickly Dave. Really appreciate it. Keep up the great work. Learn Electrics videos are an invaluable part of my learning curve & have helped me out no end.
All the best 👍 👌
👍👍
Thank you Mike, great support as always. Appreciated. Dave.
Do you have to do it in the board or can you do it in any socket in the ring circuit?
This is the approved way, some people do develop alternatives.
@@learnelectrics4402 I'm just wondering if it matters about parallel paths when earth's and neutrals are still connected in fuse board
I have r1 over 1068 ohms resistance. rn is 0.4ohms. What the problem might be? . If it was open circuit it would be over 1999.
You will need to trace the wiring to find the fault.
Make sure you are measuring only the wire and not something else in line with it.
Hi Mr.Dave. do you deliver online courses?
No Dimitris. Only UA-cam and on the LearnElectrics website dot com.
Thanks for watching and thanks for asking. Dave.
What does CPC stand for?? 2.03 divided by 4 equals .5075??
Circuit Protective Conductor - the earth.
We always round up or down and seldom go to 4 decimal places. So .52 is close enough, it is only a few thousandths of an ohm difference, we are never that accurate with electrics, the next time we measure it it will be slightly different again so anything around 0.50 to 0.52 would be acceptable. How hard you press your crocodile clips on the copper, the temperature of the room, your meter batteries will all make miniscule differences.
@@learnelectrics4402 Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.
You're very welcome.
Hi Dave my (r1+r2)/4 is 0.39 but I’m getting 0.26 cross over. Could this be due to parallel paths and is this acceptable?
Double check you have cross connected correctly. Is your meter nulled out. etc.
'(R1 +R2)' cant be separated. It is a combined measurement. 'r1' 'r2' and 'rn' are all separate measurements through 3 separate conductors.
do you need to test R1+R2 at the cu too?
Jason. No. You do not test R1+R2 at the CU for a ring circuit. The CU is normally where you make the crossover links and once done we leave them alone. Tests are done at each of the sockets. Hope this helps. Dave.
@@learnelectrics4402 thanks for the clarification. New comer to the world of learning electrics.
That's good Jason. 40 years ago I was the same position and thought I would never learn it. Stick with it, watch the videos and learn something every few days. Its a good trade.
Very informative video, don't we need to test R1+RN ?
We would test R1 and Rn to ensure continuity but we do not record it on the certificates.
Good question, hope this helps and thanks for the positive comments - appreciated. Dave
Fabulous, another great video clear and easy to understand
Thank you.
You're welcome. Thanks.
Very helpful 👌 video (I have just passed me 18th edition new to electrical)
Excellent news Jangeer. Keep learning, keep adding to your skills, this is a good trade to be in. And keep watching the videos, lots more to come. Bux
it actually says r1+rn not r1+r2 in guidance note 3 page 65
There are three conductors. r1, rn and r2. Thanks for watching, Dave.
Thank you once again Dave. Appreciated.
Always happy to help.