The FLDS Ranch: How Polygamous Families Were Reunited - Part 1
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Find out how Kelly helped represent the FLDS women from the YFZ Ranch to get their children back after the Texas raid.
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As someone who has been traumatized by how media twists narratives, I really appreciate that both of you are using your platform to grant voices to those who’s words need to be heard. I was a voluntary informant for a high profile criminal case, and I have watched for many years as some of the most difficult decisions of my life were misrepresented. Your hard work here is indispensable in the age where misinformation so easily becomes cannon in media regardless of if it represents the truth or not. If it makes a good story, people’s humanity is often flattened into one dimensional caricatures to fit one dimensional narratives. Thank you for affording those who were hurt by the circumstances you discuss the humanity all people deserve.
Thank you for providing me the opportunity to tell this aspect of the story.
❤
Thank you for your generosity in sharing!
You're amazing! I'm incredibly grateful for you for sharing your story and the stories of those you represented. What a fierce advocate for your clients you are!!!!
Thank you for sharing. A variety of perspectives is very meaningful,, and you were brave to share.
An attorney does their job with complete disregard for the best interests of anyone other than their client. It is worth remembering that, while listening to the interview, especially since this attorney represented the mothers, and not the children. It's not a judgment call.... just the way our legal system is designed.
Exactly, this point should be remembered. A win for the attorney is a win for the mothers. That’s why you have attorneys. They care for you the client only. That’s what I would want as a client
@@shannonduran6285 not necessarily a "win" for the children. We agree.
Nail on head... hence some of the myopia. (Home made meals, NEW furniture.... oy. This is a cult case, not a poverty case. Cults often have a ton of money.)
Kelly is a straight up boss! She’s so professional and knowledgeable and has a great way of sharing important stories like these.
She is definitely brave.
This reporting is EXCEPTIONAL. This is straight up documentary style journalism.
Thank you so much!
Omg this is one of the best interviews I have seen!!!! I absolutely LOVE Kelly so much!!! I can listen to her speak all day!!!! Great job Melisa and Sam!!!👍👏
Thank you.
These interviews have been so fascinating and what the documentary makers should be doing, trying their best to give every side of the story. All sources are valuable, you just have to acknowledge the bias and any source is biased. But documentaries are usually out to tell a specific story
There is a bias here on her part. I get it. She represented her clients but we need to keep in mind that child sex abuse DID happen. It feels like she is downplaying the abuse.
Yeah, when she was talking about none of the children being in danger of being married off underage etc, how did she know that? Did she take the parents' word for it? How does she know that the women weren't told to tell her that in order to get their kids back? We know for a fact that underage marriage did happen and was common, so how likely is it that she just so happened to represent the few parents in that entire community who did not intend to follow their cultural practices?
Plus, with regard to the children not wanting to be taken away and being happy to be returned, of course they were. I know from personal experience that sometimes the devil you don't know is scarier than the devil you do - I can only imagine how much more so it is when you're told your whole life that people outside your community only want to harm you. And I've heard from plenty of people in these sorts of communities that they were very happy as children because they knew nothing else and it's only once they were able to think for themselves and looked back on their upbringing that they realised how insidious the abuse was.
Ms Fitz should trace her minor aged clients to document ages each got married and age all kids were when becoming parents.
*What about their apostates who keep bringing to light how years of sexual abuse occurred for years from age 5+.
Or, that a false 1st name was on her birth certificate*
Get real Ms Fitz. This comes from another Ms Fitz.
I’m inclined to think that every child in FLDS was at risk, justifying the mass removal.
Massive bias. She’s still trying the case.
Totally bias and she’s talking about things that happened when she wasn’t there and she seems to be in favour of believing the men😳
You two are really slaying it. Your interviews are so interesting. I hope you keep going!
Thank you so much!
PLEASE keep these kind of interviews coming!! I LOVE hearing an insider perspective!!
It was truly our pleasure!
I live in Texas and did follow this story. It’s so interesting to hear Kelly’s story! Thank you for having her on!!!
First, I adore your channel because it shows all sides. However, I found her statements were disingenuous. First, she said none of the girls were in danger of underage marriage. This is a straw argument since the system of this was in place for years and no one knew which girl was going to be “chosen”. Second, of course the woman would have never asked for help no matter how poorly they or their children were treated. These women and children lived for the Prophet even when it meant their own abuse. Also, the women and children have no concept of what abuse is. What someone on the outside considers abuse is these women’s and children’s normal. Lastly, the statement I found the most offensive is that the homes were so clean and they had home cooked meals which didn’t show anything wrong and that everyone was well cared for. I have first hand professional knowledge that a clean home and home cooked meals covered on going horrors. I believe that the children should have been reunited in many cases but there were others that should not have been.
Agreed. She is doing a whole lot of lawyer speak and making it dramatic without considering that she wasn’t seeing what goes on behind closed doors. The state handled it poorly, for sure, but this woman is acting like life was perfect in the FLDS. I’m not buying her lack of sincerity. Either that or she’s just willfully ignorant. She is still trying to fight the case.
You guys are actually doing the elbow work to find these unheard perspectives! This will be so helpful for historical documentation
The men offered to leave?!?! This was the biggest question for me because it seemed like the least traumatising option to resolve things. Fascinating to hear it was offered and declined by CPS. They willingly chose a very traumatic way to work with the raid
Ya, that was a nice tidbit of info. There were clearly trust issues.
I do recall the CPS worker you interviewed previously saying they were actually giving false names and/or not identifying who their parents were.
Correct they refused to give information. However this was their attorney completely different relationship
@@shannonduran6285 Yes. Agreed. However, the attorney seemed skeptical that they were dealing with the CPS workers less honestly.
Well. I am the worker interviewed, and they refused to give any documentation. Dealing with your attorney would be different. I’m sure they wanted all the help they could get at that point
What’s good about these interviews is that you can see the progression of how the people at the ranch changed and interacted with people as the situation changed. You will even remember Oprah going on the ranch and all the staged photos
@@shannonduran6285 When I finally got to see what CPS had written about my clients’ names, it was the exact same thing my clients told me. Church name & legal name.
Of course these families were traumatized and I'm sure they love their children. No matter what the court said, wasn't this environment abusive? I cannot imagine that this whole mess didn't cause more mistrust for the outside world.
Is it true that right now women can't touch their husbands? Are only certain men allowed to father children?
I'm so glad you guys are doing these interviews! Fascinating to hear the things that are skipped over in the documentaries, so many stories that haven't been told. Looking forward to part 2!
This was such a good interview, it really highlights the complexity of the situation and the nuisance of law. What I’m curious to know is where and how the line is drawn between spiritual coercion and mental abuse? In a non religious construct this would be seen as grooming and predatory behavior but as long as it’s under the guise of religion the indoctrination is protected under amendment rights. It’s a rock and a hard place for legal reasons and it’s a nightmare for mental health and CPS professionals.
The appellate court in In Re Sarah Steed distinguished it as having a particular religious belief, which is protected & not abuse as defined by statute, & acting on that religious belief, which is not.
The Courts grant SO many protections to religion as a cover, that they are not well equipped to handle cults and the appearance of 'consent' they try to present. So many historical tragedies have happened in our society due to cults,, that no other groups would be allowed to get away with, though MLMs do spring to mind... also another difficult type of group to convict, but at least possible. Cults and MLMs are absolutely abusive and duplicitous, but it also should be weighed case by case, because not all individuals are impacted the same.... unless you then get enough for a class action,, and that's a whole 'nother ball of wax. That is not this, and yet the mass return of all kids was oddly treated exactly that way and not case by case. There were in fact individual case files for at least the first several families, as was attested by the other CPS worker interviewed. Valid files were obviously ignored as some form of retribution for the other violations found with many of the other families, and as a Hail Mary for religious protection.
@@kbf6434 Surely not all religiously claimed acts should be protected. (Not what you are claiming, I understand, but it is an important point.)
Your channel keeps getting better and better! Which is hard to do, because I was a fan from the get go when you first started this channel. You both (and all of your guest interviews) are so knowledgeable. I am learning so much about the Fundamental LDS offshoots and the mainstream LDS.
Thank you so much!
Before I found your channel I didn't know anything about the FLDS and had only heard a bit about polygamy.
I definitely thought all the women were held against their will.
You really have opened my eyes to the cultural and societal background and I have gotten a much better understanding for how the family dynamics work.
Thank you for helping us understanding!
A thought that keeps coming back to my mind as I listen to this interview is that just because most of the women and children say there was no physical and sexual abuse going on doesn't mean they were telling the truth. Abuse victims in these situations will often lie to protect their abusers. Especially if telling the truth means they'll have to leave their religion and insular community behind. I'm not saying that everyone at the ranch was being abused and lying about it. I'm saying that there was a lot of abuse that was covered up, and those children being returned to their families meant returning to the abuse. This interview is beyond frustrating to watch because it paints a very skewed side of the story. (I'm also frustrated with CPS's botched handling of this whole situation. If they had followed the proper procedures then they might have been able to actually help some of these women and children.)
Everyone on the TRLA team was very experienced in dealing with domestic violence & child abuse cases. We knew what to ask & what to look for. As I stated in the interview, we went into this case anticipating filing protective orders, divorces, & custody cases & even brought our forms, paper, & printers so we could do that in our hotel rooms. But ultimately, the decision to get a protective order or custody order or even to leave the FLDS was the client's decision after being informed of their options.
As for my "very skewed" side of the story, do you think that way because you've never heard this information before? Sam & Melissa are the only ones I've come across who want to hear all sides & treat everyone respectfully.
Couldn't agree more.
You should read Rebecca Musser book. The Witness Wore Red.
Most people do not know what abuse is until they are told. Whats normal in one home is not normal in another.
@@kbf6434 Glad to hear you had experience with abuse cases, your voice is important, but of course we don't have to agree with your view. I am sure you did your very best and followed all ethical procedures as they appeared before you. Your view is skewed toward your clients, as it should have been. It is a piece of the puzzle, myopic and not the whole, but anecdotal and sliced views hold value too, as they help to flush out the whole narrative more and help us all make sense how each honestly justified their own actions and those of others. People aren't generally inherently evil. Most of us are pretty darn sure we are doing 'the right' thing. It's all we can do.
I appreciated that you spoke up about the rejection of presented birth certificates. I found that surprising as well, and it is indeed a Constitutional issue. Reminds me of the birtherism against Obama. It's out of line to just reject them, if those certs were genuine. So you have some great perspectives on where some rights were absolutely being denied, and it shows a willfulness to ignore some laws to get at the 'fruit'. What an absolute shame. Thank you for mentioning these types of issues.
As far as needed criticisms, I doubt very much that you had a great deal of cult infrastructure experience, let alone the psychological issues facing kidnapped individuals, and how sometimes they can appear and act 'very well cared for'. You most certainly seem oblivious to acknowledging the genocidal tactics employed on the Ranch... but then I don't really think our society's judicial system is well equipped to handle cults and the harm they cause in general. I found it very irksome how willing you were to accept self declared family structures that had been clearly jumbled up, without ANY verbalized suspicion of the displacements themselves as the cultic genocidal submission tactics that many of these situations were.
The cult members and the kidnapped OFTEN speak on behalf and in defense of the person harming them. (You seem smart enough to know this.) I respect what a difficult situation this was, and your position to represent these women and their need to be with their children. Society can't make false claims of abuse out of thin air, and I think you had a very difficult job mam. You trusted your clients, as you needed to, it's the right thing to do in the judicial and legal process. I honestly don't know how you could have done your job any differently than you did it.
Another fantastic interview regarding the raid and misinformation from the media to the public about the raid. While at the time I questioned some of the information we were led to believe it was gospel truth. I am so glad you guys are doing these interviews and the providing clarification of what actually happened here. Thank you so much and God bless all involved.
Incredibly fascinating and wonderful viewpoints of this situation. Hopefully you will be able to speak with one or more of the women or children who left that day or who returned and left later. Kelly is an intelligent, kind lady who brings wonderful insight to this situation.
So interesting, so happy people like Kelly got involved and helped, it must have been a very frightening experience for these extremely sheltered families to be put through.
These are really high quality interviews and sources of otherwise untapped information for the public. Like, I wonder if these will be referenced/clipped in future documentaries. Thank you!
I'm a new subscriber and I just wanted to thank you for having these interviews from the perspective of those who provided services to the families on the ranch. When the raid was portrayed in main stream media, it was portrayed as every child was abused and in danger and it just never set right with me. Going to be watching part two here in a bit. 🙂
❤️
Thank you for all you are doing to bring this stuff out of the darkness and into the light!
Thank you so much!
Thank you Sam, Melissa and Kelly for this video. I love these longer, more informative videos because, as someone else said, they fill in the full story we have been hearing about the FLDS and Ranch raid. Keep up the good work! 🙏
Thank you so much!
As a family law attorney (albeit in a different state), this is so interesting to me. You guys are really hitting it out of the park with your interviews lately.
Thank you so much!
It's so frustrating to hear this. If CPS higher ups had just followed their normal procedures so much could have been done to help some of these kids. They didn't NEED to push their hand. There was plenty they could have done to protect kids "by the book."
This is so interesting. Having had dealings with CPS and knowing others who have, this is why they often record the initial interview. The homeschooling community has a lot of similar stories like this with CPS in Texas that I've heard. Some case workers are great, but I've seen some horrible stuff at the hands of the system.
CPS has a reputation misrepresenting the facts (at best). The Department was sanctioned for it a couple of years ago in a case handled by Dennis Slate & covered by NBC in a series of special reports.
Pre conceived biases can often have a negative effect in situations like these, unfortunately.
This is so cool how you are getting all the perspectives of what happened!! You guys need to create your OWN documentary! Love love Kelly! 🙌❤️
This was a very fascinating and informative interview! Thank you for sharing this, and thank you to Kelly Fitzgerald for speaking on her experience.
There is a reason that they couldn't let the children go to the ranch with the mother's. Mother's could have influenced children to not tell the truth. This lady is being awfully hard on cps workers in a very difficult situation. I truly believe they were just trying to protect all possible victims.
Thank you for this interesting interview. It's fascinating to see how so many well intentioned people could bungle an endeavor. Keep up the good work🙂
I think it's awesome that you guys are presenting all sides of this, and doing in a non-editorialising way. It's so rare to have the opportunity to hear different sides unfiltered and unedited, see where they agree and where they diverge, what each side has to say about the others, think about what each side illuminates about the strengths and weaknesses of the others' stories, and then simply make up our own minds.
Very informative. I wish we had more people that worked as hard as she does to make our world a better place. Thank you for doing this.
Sam and Melissa- my son asked me today “mom is there a new episode of your favorite podcast?” They know I love you!
It doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are if you are abusing children! This lady is making me angry! There are exceptions to due process when children's lives are in danger. That's the point of cps going in.
Don’t shoot the messenger.
She is not from CPS. She was the legal representative
You're also abusing kids when you make them commit to something that they have been brainwashed with for 8 years. Obviously people get baptised when they first of all have no idea what they're committing too when they're 8 years old. Religion is just abusing overall
I have been personally in 4 child/mother legal cases.. I witnessed attorneys working strictly to win the case for their client not for the children in the long run....I say this because of my own experiences
Thanks so much for doing these interviews. It gives great insight into what really happened.
Our pleasure!
Great video! The name change thing reminds me of Joanna and how her last name changed but didn’t legally change.
I saw a news interview at the time of the raid where one of the moms said that the men offered to leave. I don't think the clip was popular.
Clean Homes and Healthy Meals are often the Disguise for Trouble when it comes to Emotional Abuse...
So glad there are people like Kelly out there, putting in the hard, unglamorous work to try and put lives back together.
Only a short ways in, but Kelly should write a book!
Thank you so much for showing all the different perspectives! It really helps understanding what was going on :)
Oh! I was just catching up on your last video and now there is a new one!
24:37 they’re ALL in danger of being married off to people they might not even know, that could be years older than them and they could still be children, and the grooming and indoctrination that makes this possible, starts as soon as the children are born, making them all vulnerable to this abuse. And some of these ‘mothers’ weren’t even the actual mothers to some of those children, the children who had been taken from their actual mothers. This is so hard to listen to. My heart goes out to all the people caught up in Warren Jeff’s insanity, the men, women and children, but I can’t understand how this women thinks the children weren’t being abused.
Based on the fact that children were on the ranch and parents weren't and legal guardians there at the ranch....This is disturbing and a Red Light to Me....
Have you ever thought of asking Rebecca Musser to be on your program?
Kelly is excellent reporter!! Thank you
Wow guys, your videos are so valuable. It’s so great to have easily accessible documentation of different perspectives concerning these events. Keep up the good work :)
Greetings from Germany!
Thank you so much!
This was a fantastic interview. Very good information given and great questions. It's nice to see another perspective and I'm completely looking forward to part 2. Excellent job!
I had no idea things like this were going on in Texas. Thank you, Ms Fitzgerald for sharing your knowledge.
Stretching the definitions of household? Hmm, maybe partly due to the simple fact that the 'households' were all jumbled up. 'Re ASSIGNED' to another man??? Kids basically forfeited and re-inserted in stranger homes???
While I agree that removal should be a case by case situation, and actual evidence of something wrong should be the guiding factor before removal should even be considered, when things don't smell right an investigation (with minimal interference) should absolutely be conducted.
To the point, the practices happening on the Ranch were practically genocidal to the families that were torn apart, and yet some would find that claim hard because of this allegiance to a religion as the cause... I call BS. Reassigning relationships and parents is absolutely abusive and a genocidal tactic that goes beyond the pale. To even claim for a SECOND that those reassignments were established families is disgusting.
The psychological bonds that we humans make in families were being abused to extremes on the Ranch. YES new bonds were formed, YES removal would be devastating, and YES it might be fine to leave them in the homes they were currently removed to by Jeffs, BUT every effort to reunite and re-establish those previous broken bonds is critical. While it may be true that sometimes kidnappers make 'great parents'... I am really not here for that kind of speak, seriously.
Such an incredible series. Y'all are doing excellent, compassionate, and honest work. I was still in elementary school (relatively near YFZ) when this happened, and didn't know about it at all until last year.
Thank you to All of You for speaking on this difficult topic.
Playing devils advocate, CPS went in with no knowledge of what exactly was going on and opened a huge can of worms. This lady went in after the ‘worms’ had been somewhat sorted. However, CPS should have reorganized and took another tactic.
I always look forward to your videos! I know they must be emotionally taxing! I appreciate all your hard work and dedication! I’m so glad others’ in similar situations have you all as a resource if information and support! ❤️
Thank you so much!
It's a fallen fallen world. They're told to fear the world. Were they wrong? Stealing that woman's baby away.
💯
Wow, this is a really important interview. Y’all are doing important work. I’m only halfway in and have chills!
Thank you so much!
You two are excellent interviewers! I've thought this before, watching you both gently steer interview subjects back on topic or clarifying for viewers where you think necessary. Great job on an important topic for everyone in our country who believes in freedom of religion and other First Ammendment rights.
LOVE THESE DEEP DIVE INTERVIEWS! NOTHING LIKE IT ANYWHERE ELSE! BEST COVERAGE. ❤
You guys NEED to read Carolyn Jessop’s second book, Triumph it is kind of a self help book BUT she goes into a lot of detail on her time at the ranch as a subject matter expert during the raid. Some of the facts that have been new to you guys are touched on in that book!
This would make for a neat “book club” type series!
Yes! Carolyn writes quite a bit about life in Shortcreek as Warren took over.
it would be so cool if they could interview Carolyn!
Also Racheal Jeffs’ book, it details a ton of what was happening in the community around the time Warren was on trial.
Oooohhhh we really like this idea of a "book club"
thank you for providing this deep dive into the YFZ ranch story. it’s very interesting!
Now 20 years later some Women and Children are finally speaking out...
Can someone get these guys a headphone splitter 🤣
Hahaha really though!
Idk if your reaching out to people or they are see you and reaching out but seriously love these videos. I’ve been around since you have less then 1000 subs and pretty sure I’ve watched all your videos but these are the best I’ve seen. Thanks so much Kelly, Sam and Melissa
Kelly brings out the raw emotions of the entire ordeal (Timer 23:30). She's amazing.
.
Susan Hays rocked it right. There were other ad litems in that category.
In the legal guardian case, those were Barbara Barlow Jeffs' children. Warren's second wife who died of cancer at YFZ in 2004. Her actual sister, Annette Barlow Jeffs - Warren's first wife - who had informal guardianship of Barbara's children. CPS respected that guardianship. (Annette was the badass woman in the Ray-Bans. I say with respect towards her.)
I am curious as to if anyone zeroed in on the structure of family units was considered...I said or didn't admit for 22 years that my married life was happy and normal until I knew it wasn't...
Main stream media is awful. I find that going to a dozen different UA-cam videos on any topic will give me information that is correct
What amazing content lately. Great work you guys!
Thank you!
Would be interesting to hear from the people who was out there when it happened
I've been really enjoying your videos lately!! Such good interviewing and reporting on these topics! And your new microphones really increase the production quality 😁
Another great show!
Did they think the documents were fake?
Hi, i have a question, were they considering that this Children where maybe not being abuse at the time like they were use to in other cases but in other ways like not having education or the posible labor exploitation of young boys in construction, or that the girls could possibly be married at a young age? I just wander if there was a law aspect in oll of that, by the way, great content, is very interesting, I love that you are always so respectful to everyone involved
There was a school building on the Ranch that the children attended every day. They were being given an education. Also, in Texas you are allowed to homeschool.
@@kbf6434 thank you for the answer
@@kbf6434 Only up to a certain age though, so if you pay close attention to the Oprah visit, the family she visits, Richard Jessop (a son of Merril Jessop) had five sons who were 11, 8, 6, 5 and 4. We only see the mothers taking the 8 year old, Max, going to school. His older brother Richard Jr. should be in school but is off working.
a new sam and melissa video ! i knew it was going to be a good day!
Very interesting, and valid points! Yet good to remember this is only one other side to the story and probably not the truth as a whole. It's kinda hard to believe that there were no girls being in danger of being married of early. That's a rather bold statement and not proven. I'm not saying cps did the right thing, but they also had valid concerns. The tragic thing is that kids and women were being terribly harmed and the state failed them. Both in taking all the children and in sending all back, I guess.
Millionaires in nice homes can have a family member abuse them.
I believe that this entire situation became a Case of Government vs Government...Not What About the Children...
This is an excellent interview. There is nothing more horrible for a mother than to lose her children. At 25 minutes she's talking about the mothers crying with happiness as their children were returned. No doubt this was a CPS overreach, but I don't really understand -she's acting somewhat sympathetic to them. Let's remember that the sect itself has done far more damage than CPS in this case. Kids were poofed away in the night sometimes from their mothers to go to the ranch- for years in some cases. Fathers extracted from their families and the children and wives "reassigned". These same mother crying for their kids may well see their sons kicked out at 13 because there are "too many boys" or seeing their underage daughter married off. Just because Jeffs is gone doesn't mean the cult has changed. :(
sounds like a whole debacle because it was mishandled because of the sheer amount of children, multiple moms etc
But, what would have happened if cys didn't step in at all? Some of those children could have been abused at a later date
Just wondering if anything was done about the underage marriage issue.
Warren Jeffs is in prison serving 2 life sentences.
Yes, but only because Warren stopped all marriages after he was jailed, and luckily with him in jail, he no longer has access to his underage wives. A couple of the men arrested are still in jail, but there were a couple younger men who managed to escape prosecution because the age gap was small and their marriages at the time were monogamous (Luke Seth Jeffs and Jackson Jessop, off the top of my head, who were just 3 years and 4 years apart from their wives respectively) who I believe are still married (Jackson and Pamela are for sure)
Maybe I'm missing something. How many children were living at the ranch without their parents in the first place?
Aside from Warren’s children, very few. Most of the children had at least one, if not both parents present on the ranch. The majority of the ranch’s occupants were most of Warren’s wives and kids, his brothers and their families, Merril Jessop and many of his children and grandchildren, and Wendell Nielsen and his big family, many of his wives were originally married to other men and reassigned to him.
Sigh. Two opposing viewpointa can both hold elements of the truth at the same time.
It's an error to say CPS was right in all cases. At the same time, it's also an error to say CPS was wrong in all cases.
The whole thing was a bungled mess with the CPS and FLDS sides both way beyond their skis. Poor decisions made by both sides.
CPS was overwhelmed. FLDS mothers were overwhelmed. Under the full circumstances, it was doomed from the get-go to end without leaving lasting scars on those it touched.
Especially the kids.
And FWIW, two young mothers gave birth while they were erroneously classified as minors.
In both cases, CPS and attorneys representing those young mothers reached agreements early until those two cases were sorted out. Early on in those cases, CPS acknowledged that the young mothers were in fact adults and both had provided legitimate birth certificates to CPS.
Another FWIW, in one of the cases, the father filed a motion for a restraining order preventing CPS from obtaining physical custody of their babies. A restraining order was NEVER issued. The negotiated agreement made that a moot issue.
Another FWIW, at no time was CPS threatening to rip the newborns out of their mother's arms. Recall that CPS allowed nursing babies to stay with their mothers.
Both sides right. Both sides wrong.
FWIW, my opinion is that the Texas 3rd District Court of Appeals got it right regarding the mothers represented by TRLA. The appeals court remanded that case back to the district court to rectify the issues in those specific cases because those children were not in imminent danger of harm. Most of my cohorts at the time vehemently disagreed with the appeals court decision. Your mileage may vary.
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I went to social work school 2009 through 2012 and we unfortunately did not use the ranch case and any case studies. I actually went to school for divinity and social work so to get my degree as a pastor as well as a social worker. And I was really interested and wanted to talk about the lack of cultural competency in this case but I went to school in Massachusetts where it’s very rare that people want to talk about religion. These days I’ve tried to make a name for myself to be someone that can be consulted on matters of religion when it comes to cultural competency in DCF,DMH, DYS…
I am loving your channel. I watched the Netflix special, and since then I’ve read and watched everything I can find. I had no idea that the flds existed, and what was going on. In a lot of the books I’ve read the women are around my age, and it’s really weird to see the things they were going through when I was the same age. When I was 14 and thought my mother was strict not letting me wear makeup or do things with my friends they were being married off. I feel so bad for what the women and children have gone through. Its nice to hear the interviews your doing. It would be great if you could get Sam Brower on your channel.
It’s odd also that each persons viewpoint of growing up in the flds is so different. It sounds like their life was dependent on the husbands/fathers belief. It seems that some men believed that they had to be stricter in their own households then others?
I’m curious if Sam ever had doubts, or questioned things?
As an ex flds, I can promise you that this woman is waaay more truthful than that Shannon lady that was on the last video.
Everything was immaculate in the homes, perhaps a bit TOO sterile?
The FLDS clean their homes every day.
44:37 isn’t the reason they haven’t seen crayons because they’re not allowed to have toys or anything related to fun? Did this lady see any toys hanging around or bicycles? She said the houses were spotless, which is a red flag with so many children because where were their toys, pencils, paints, books, school work and school projects etc?
They had access to color pencils & had art instruction at their school. There were many pictures drawn and/or colored in by the children in the school. There were also older women who painted & taught their grandchildren to paint. They limited their drawings & paintings to religious topics & nature scenes.
This woman surely doesn't believe that noone was in danger of being married off young. One of the girls was 14 and pregnant. She got a thing for CPS. She doesn't care for them much. She really made me angry.
That is a lie put out by the State. At the follow-up hearings in late May, they had to walk back that claim. There was no pregnant 14 year old found at the Ranch. More than half of the “teen girls” the State claimed they found were in fact adults, including 2 adult women who gave birth between the adversary hearing & the appellate decision. The State tried to steal their babies when they were born & declared the women adults so they couldn’t remain in foster care to take care of their babies.
@@kbf6434that’s not true
To think this happened to Americans.** And only because it happened in front of cameras was the "right" thing done. The natives of this country had no chance!
**To be fair there was some shady shit happening that needed to end and I am glad something was done.
The different videos/documentaries on this have been greatly unjust and bias in how they handled it. None of them should have been completed without much of what is brought out in this segment alone.
My heart aches for Sam in this- agree or not with the beliefs of the sect under Warren Jeffs @ the ranch, so much of this hits home because of how everyone was lumped into one pile, rather than treated as individual families at the ranch. Sam, having first hand knowledge of his family, is able to back much of what Kelly is saying as far as the individual families and most WANTED to stay in the lifestyle & belief system.
I have no doubt that the families most traumatized by the raid were those that were trying to live good lives and weren't marrying their kids off underage (though they likely would have if it was ordered, or Warren knew the men so well and he knew such an order would cause them such consternation that their daughters were not chosen, even if they were considered Ranch-worthy families).
I also have major doubts that if a redheaded girl was pregnant that it was Merrianne -- mainly because of the timing. Warren was arrested and not out of jail from the end of August of 2006. The raid was in April 2008. At the very worst, she might have been carrying post-partum weight -- but unless Warren was instructing his brothers/other favored men to impregnate his own wives (something I highly doubt -- men who collect women, vs have a polyamorous relationship with them, don't want others touching them), the timing doesn't fit for her to have been pregnant.
Being redheaded, or being assumed to be 14 or 15 when they were a few years older at first sight, is not exactly uncommon in the FLDS.
And if Merrianne *was* carrying weight most FLDS women/teen girls didn't.... she was likely instructed to fast many times since August of 2006, which often leads to binging when the fast is over (which likely would have been tolerated given her status). Such binge/fast cycles give one a terrible metabolism, especially starting at a young age, and leads to putting on weight. If she also resorted to purging to try to obey the edict of staying thin, the effects of bulimia usually leave a person at a normal-or-above weight, sometimes even as much as being overweight.
While due process and religious freedom are essential rights, marrying (or marrying off) minors to adults for whom a sexual relationship would be illegal if not married is a VERY dangerous practice. I personally believe that, even with parental consent, it should only be legal to marry underage if a sexual relationship would be legal -- and then only "to give the child a name" should they already be having sex and a child is conceived. If a person who is pregnant applies to marry someone for whom a sexual relationship w/ would break laws, then the marriage should be denied and instead the request forwarded to law enforcement to prosecute statutory rape.
Like in Arkansas, we do have our age of consent at 16, and "Romeo and Juliet" clauses if there isn't that much age difference. I'd prefer our age of consent be 18, but as it's not... well, at least we have SOME barriers. And I'd STILL prefer marriage be limited to 18 and older unless a pregnancy is involved and the sexual relationship was legal.
Most more historically-accepted isolated religious communities, such as the Amish, have kept their age for baptism (and therefore commitment to the Amish lifestyle) at 18, and only baptized members may marry. I sincerely hope that the FLDS give up on Warren as their "prophet", preferably if another one comes along who says they have received a revelation that marriage must be limited to age 18 and up. It won't fix the problems with "spiritual coercion" of adults, or the lack of resources for the male children who leave the community to find wives for lack of likely placement with any FLDS woman, but it would at least fix the issue of children being told they should marry underage.
Merrianne was not the redhead who was pregnant. She was 14 at the time & hadn’t been around Jeffs for almost 2 years. Also, the youngest pregnant teen found at the Ranch was 16, according to the court decision. Still not a good thing, though, but the distinction needs to be made because “14 year old red headed pregnant girl” is code for Merrianne.
@@kbf6434 I agree. I recently watched the CPS-worker interview, and while the worker did not name names, I believe it was suggested in the video that might have been Merrianne.
Just because she is the most famous young FLDS redhead does not mean she was the only young redhead at YFZ. And as I suggested, if someone did suspect Merrianne was pregnant.... there were signifgant other explanations that definitely fit the facts besides pregnancy. Again, I just don't think Warren was gonna relinquish the many fertile women/girls he claimed to others.
@@brighitfire I recently came across a newspaper article from the San Angelo paper in which the Department admitted that 15 of the 31 “pregnant teenagers” they claimed were at the Ranch were adults. They also admitted that “the 14 year old” (again, code for Merianne Jessop) was not pregnant & never had been. This was during the individual hearings the mothers finally got to have, before the appellate decision was handed down.
I bet the lady she is talking about who was pregnant is Louisa Bradshaw Jessop. There’s a few articles about her trying to get her family reunited. She was married to one of Merril Jessop’s son Dan. The only other girl who was pregnant was Pamela Jeffs Jessop but she was initially under investigation because she, like her sisters Janet and LeAnn, was married at 15. Her husband avoided a jail sentence because their age gap was only 4 years and they were legally married about half a year before the raid.
I found an article recently about Louisa from the SLC Tribune, but there was another adult woman who CPS also claimed was a “child” who gave birth in San Antonio. This woman is also mentioned in the article, but only Louisa is named.
@@kbf6434 I bet it was Pamela then. If you look up her full name, “Pamela Jeffs Jessop” you can find some articles about her situation. I thought the woman you mentioned was Louisa because you mentioned her husband being involved, and I know Dan Jessop got interviewed and was at the courthouse when they won custody of their newborn. Pamela’s husband Jackson is Dan’s younger brother, but I don’t recall ever seeing him mentioned being around. Pamela lived with her mom after the raid but I think she and Jackson are living in Colorado now. Jack and Dan owned a construction company in Texas that got investigated back in 2009.
@@piratesswoop725 I knew the husband was the one who filed because he retained a firm that’s run by very good friends of one of my team members. (She has since passed away so I didn’t have anyone to ask.) Thank you for the information.